Titan Network
Graveyard => Save Paragon Retirees => Save Paragon City! => Topic started by: Zolgar on September 22, 2012, 08:25:52 AM
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So, Tony has put out the word for people with friends/contacts in the industry to try and convince other publishers to pick up CoH and hopefully what's left of Paragon Studios (depending on how the negotiations go). There's a question that will be asked though..
"Why should we pick up an almost 9 year old game?"
So, why would a game company want CoH?
- Large loyal and active fanbase, and an even larger player base- many of whom held VIP accounts. (anyone have numbers for the player base?)
- Prior to the announced shutdown the play base was still growing.
- Despite the games age and being free to play, City of Heroes continued to make a notable profit.
- While the publisher put little to no money in to marketing the game, it continued to grow.
- The 'real money' market is already developed and successful, showing the players are just as keen on buying shiny vanity items as they are power items.
- Despite being the oldest, it is widely considered the best MMO within it's niche market.
- Superheroes are currently 'hot' in mainstream media.
- The only MMO on the market which allows players to build their own content.
- If they acquire the remnants of Paragon Studios: A team of artists and developers already familiar with the material being worked with.
- Neigh infinite replayability.
- Casual and 'hard core' friendly.
Obviously this list isn't complete by any stretch, and could use to be more professionally worded, but these are points for business people... not players. Someone can look at these, and the financial data that confirms it, and see that the game was still successful and could very easily continue to be so and grow with just a little effort.
Just getting CoH on Steam would probably be an immense surge in players.
Getting City of Heroes back in stores? Cards for Paragon Points and VIP time.. Maybe a boxed game again ($20, 30 days VIP, some extra Paragon Points and 5 Hero/Villain packs or some such) because people will see shiny superheroes and go "mine!"
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Here's a couple more.
This game is female-friendly. Oh yes, I know about the chest slider pushed to the right, and the minikini costumes...but a gal can build herself a toon that is covered neck to soles if she wants, and the players are about the least sexist I have come across in any MMORPG (one of the many reasons why I stayed). The number of harassing teenage jerks is remarkably low, and when anyone starts, a dozen players jump to the rescue. Not to mention the high number of good female role models in the canon. Market this game to girl gamers and you will see a lot of them come and stay.
This game's UI is easy, and intuitive. One of the reasons I didn't play Tabula Rasa outside the Beta--which I paid for--was the UI.
Yes the game is 8 years old...which, my friends, means it is just about time for all those folks who started families and quit to get nostalgic and now that the kids are in school and have their own interests, hearken back to those fun nights of button mashing. In other words, CoH is on the edge of a rising number of return customers. That is only going to get larger, the older the game gets. The UI is the same, picking it up again is like riding a bike again, but oh, how new and shiny and so much easier it is to play. Gone are the days of sweating through the lower levels for weeks. Gone are the days of the agony until you got a travel power.
Which brings me to--
The game is senior-citizen friendly. The retirees of today--my generation--grew up on comic books, Star Trek TOS first-run, and B science fiction movies at the drive-in. The retirees of today have to be very careful about their budget, and need to get a lot of entertainment out of a dollar. The retirees of today were the first to see video games--and spend their money on them, with enthusiasm. Were the first to have PCs. Are comfortable with the internet. The UI for CoH is simple and intuitive, and unlike twitcher games, doesn't really require a phenomenal amount of hand-eye coordination. If you don't PvP, it's easy on those of us with slower reflexes. Plus, the socialization, the community, is warm and welcoming for those of us who feel isolated by our age. No one knows how old you are--and if they do, they either don't care, or think it's amazing and cool. This is one reason why my father in law plays it. It's a way to connect with your younger relatives at far distances--another reason why my father in law plays. And VIP for $15 a month is cheaper entertainment than a cable subscription. Think about it, the possible ads in AARP....."Remember, when you were a kid, you wanted to be a superhero? Now you can. Come fly with us."
Anyone who is blind to the possibilities of that last has to be insane.
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Neigh infinite replayability.
Just getting CoH on Steam would probably be an immense surge in players.
Is that a pony reference like they had on the old forums?
CoH was on Steam for a long time but no longer. It didn't seem to make an impact. But certainly better to have it on than not.
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COH on Steam was a prototype of NCsoft failure. It was on steam, with no effort to use anything that can offer steam. No announcment, no promo, problem with the game not solved (it has never fonctionned right and has stop from being usable at all with the new launcher) ... What do they hope ? A proper launch on steam, with starter pack, and promo for the launch of issue will be a big seller of the game. That's what lotro or DCUO does.
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We were hoping to get our kids into this game eventually. You know how THE POWERS THAT BEEEEE *ominous boom* keep going on about how families are falling by the wayside, family game night should be pushed blahblahblahblahblah..more quality time with the kids ect. Well, this is a way, for a good many parents who grew up on video games, to spend time with their kids. Yes it's rated T for Teen, mostly due to the violence aspect. There is no blood, there's no real cursing and that which goes on in chat can be fixed with the chat filter.
Sister Flame comes to mind when it comes to this. Also, at least in OUR household, we had my son roll a beam rifle blaster, he got to tell me exactly how he wanted his "hero wif de wazer gun" to look like. He sat on my lap and pushed the powers buttons and moved while I read him the text. He loved it!!!!
This game is so family friendly..as a military family, my husband goes away for long periods of time. This game was one of the ways that we "Hung out together" as a family, while he was away. We couldn't have family movie nights, but, we had family CoH nights while he was gone.
I'm guessing many military families that are part of the COH community do the same thing.
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COH on Steam was a prototype of NCsoft failure. It was on steam, with no effort to use anything that can offer steam. No announcment, no promo, problem with the game not solved (it has never fonctionned right and has stop from being usable at all with the new launcher) ... What do they hope ? A proper launch on steam, with starter pack, and promo for the launch of issue will be a big seller of the game. That's what lotro or DCUO does.
A couple Steam exclusive items couldn't hurt either.
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I'm guessing many military families that are part of the COH community do the same thing.
I'm sure there was some press a few years back on MMOs being used for families to communciate and CoH was mentioned a lot.
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Never has there been a comparably opportunity to the game as a platform for PLAYER ASSET MONETIZATION of the style Valve has.
Think you make a lot selling a hat? How about entire costumes and around 20 components per costume? Each alt can use a large number of costumes, currently 10, potentially.
How about player sold content packs? There is a way to create content by the players in the game NOW and it could be expanded.
The majority of powers in the game support multiple animations. Players could create animations or effects! These are actually supported PER COSTUME, further increasing potential buying.
It has a way to build a custom base in which thousands of objects can be placed. The potential for a market of community built base objects!
A major reason the community is so loyal is the incredible customization possible. You should expect any converted players to spend a lot. Did I mention that alt creation is a major part of the game and each alt could buy different animations to support their unique powersets?
One might ask with the enormous monetization of veterans, why was profit just modest? Essentially, new players were not converted or recruited aggressively enough. If you have a trial or free account the game had a ridiculous number of restrictions preventing communication with the community, getting a team, or getting answers to questions. Instead of providing a sophisticated system to block spam, the company simply restricted the accounts that required communication the most. A far better way would be, perhaps, silencing of a free account that has X spam reports, or tracking the way a free account uses the chat system.
Incredibly, the channel for community assistance did not even function properly for multiple years. A change in how it was accessed restricted use to an obscure command a newbie could only get if a veteran told how to use it. In addition, newbies had opposite faction communication blocked by default, resulting in questions the veterans could only answer by requesting another veteran get involved. Newbies generally found a world in which teaming was almost impossible to discover, because the only way to effectively recruit was through player run global channels with a limited number of members. The actual grouping channel was only added a few months prior to the game getting closed!
Another reason the game can be expected to increase its profits is the staff. The studio had a lot of employees working on a new game, perhaps a majority. The actual operating cost may be considerably lower than the total operating cost of the studio as a whole.
Also consider that the conversion to a free system actually gave a LOT for free. A new user had no way to communicate with the majority of the players, but costume options included the entire library of costumes players had in subscriptions prior to the conversion, thousands of pieces. A veteran got most of the game for free if their subscription was cancelled, thanks to reward programs.
Yet a profit was still made! The continued profit was entirely thanks to the incredible loyalty fostered by the game's unique mechanics, which made support a viable way to play, the communication offered by the development team, and the incredible customization creating a high customer investment. Better conversion of newbies to customers and player asset development can provide additional revenue and increase loyalty yet more.
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This game is female-friendly. Oh yes, I know about the chest slider pushed to the right, and the minikini costumes...but a gal can build herself a toon that is covered neck to soles if she wants, and the players are about the least sexist I have come across in any MMORPG (one of the many reasons why I stayed). The number of harassing teenage jerks is remarkably low, and when anyone starts, a dozen players jump to the rescue. Not to mention the high number of good female role models in the canon. Market this game to girl gamers and you will see a lot of them come and stay.
This is something that impressed me too.
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Sister Flame comes to mind when it comes to this. Also, at least in OUR household, we had my son roll a beam rifle blaster, he got to tell me exactly how he wanted his "hero wif de wazer gun" to look like. He sat on my lap and pushed the powers buttons and moved while I read him the text. He loved it!!!!
That is so awesome :D :D
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The game is senior-citizen friendly. The retirees of today--my generation--grew up on comic books, Star Trek TOS first-run, and B science fiction movies at the drive-in. The retirees of today have to be very careful about their budget, and need to get a lot of entertainment out of a dollar. The retirees of today were the first to see video games--and spend their money on them, with enthusiasm. Were the first to have PCs. Are comfortable with the internet. The UI for CoH is simple and intuitive, and unlike twitcher games, doesn't really require a phenomenal amount of hand-eye coordination. If you don't PvP, it's easy on those of us with slower reflexes. Plus, the socialization, the community, is warm and welcoming for those of us who feel isolated by our age. No one knows how old you are--and if they do, they either don't care, or think it's amazing and cool. This is one reason why my father in law plays it. It's a way to connect with your younger relatives at far distances--another reason why my father in law plays. And VIP for $15 a month is cheaper entertainment than a cable subscription. Think about it, the possible ads in AARP....."Remember, when you were a kid, you wanted to be a superhero? Now you can. Come fly with us."
That's a very good point, a lot of us * cough * older players have noticed the change of playing style in some of the newer MMORPGS where it seems the mainstream is moving more towards twitch playing (blocking, dodging, true aiming etc) and therefor some of the new games won't appeal to us at all. Somehow, even intentionally or by accident, COH has managed to establish itself clearly in the middle ground of the different playing styles and to me that is a huge selling point.
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Should we add it being LGBT friendly (or at least, friendlier than the vast majority out there) to the list, or is that a double edged sword thanks to politics these days?
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Should we add it being LGBT friendly (or at least, friendlier than the vast majority out there) to the list, or is that a double edged sword thanks to politics these days?
It's never a double edged sword. Hate mongers and bigots just try to make it into one, and usually end up looking stupid.
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It's never a double edged sword. Hate mongers and bigots just try to make it into one, and usually end up looking stupid.
Point. Add it to the list!
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Should we add it being LGBT friendly (or at least, friendlier than the vast majority out there) to the list, or is that a double edged sword thanks to politics these days?
I'm also not particularly fond of the idea of selling to somebody that would think 'isn't sexist' or 'isn't harmful to gay people' would be negative selling points.
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Just to raise an interesting point:
Some of these selling points are great from a players standpoint.. but to the business:
'Senior friendly'- Let's be honest, when marketing a game how would a company even consider marketing that.. Most older gamers I've met get their games from word of mouth, or marketing geared towards a younger audience. Places where one would market to the older crowd, far too many of the people seeing the advertisement would scoff at is as 'kid stuff'.
'Girl friendly'- While it's changing, slowly, the game industry in general sees "girl friendly" games as things like romance games, The Sims, etc. Most of the gamer girls I know would probably be put off by an advertisement geared towards "girls", because .. the industry is still learning that girls like real games.
'LGBT friendly'- It is, unfortunately, a double edged sword for businesses. Making an overtly pro-gay advertisement creates a hell of a lot of publicity, both positive and negative.. unfortunately, it's always hard to tell in any given industry, which will outweigh the other. It becomes a question of 'which has more risk?' and the potential fallout from not advertising directly to the LGBT community is far lower than it is for advertising directly to them.
These three points are great to the right audience (.. 50+ lesbian gamers!) but, the question is, are any of them actually marketable enough to offset the marketing cost?
A way to spin these in to a stronger selling point to a company could be something like:
Friendly to players of all ages and walks of life, with a strong community of 'fringe groups' advertising to their peers through word of mouth.
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I Agree with most of what VV says, though I always thought the female physique in COH seemed awfully limited (if I ever show off all my hundreds of costumes anywhere it'll be clear I've been able to get far more range of effects out of the male forms... and males get two forms! The Huge body type not having hermaphroditic elements was an oversight, too).
Senior friendly also crosses over with handicap friendly. I have seen folks touting how this game is very playable with normally disabling arthritis, paralysis, and other physical handicaps.
So far as I know, LGBT issues have really nothing to do with the game itself. You might see it in the theme, but even Adam West thought that was a misconception.
Whether that is a marketing angle any investor could get behind I don't know. It does play into who winds up sticking with and buying multiple family accounts for this game, though.
My main observation lately is that most of the remaining player base is creatively inclined. I referred to this the other day as "an art community in game form." That might be a marketable angle, and traffic brought in from adverts outside the realm of games, in graphics and creative writing venues, might stick for longer, spending more on costume elements, AE slots and such than the "pay 2 win" items constantly rotating "gamer" types jump on to max out their first character and declare they've seen everything before jumping ship for whatever other game comes along.
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These three points are great to the right audience (.. 50+ lesbian gamers!) but, the question is, are any of them actually marketable enough to offset the marketing cost?
So I suppose that games with vibrant environments, fast-paced gameplay, and buff male avatars are geared towards fashionable <20yo gay men?
Having a game with a demographic that is simply not getting tapped by other properties is a good thing. You're not going to lose very many senior players if a new X-TREME PvP MMO comes out, while more traditionally-targeted games will see a noticeable fluctuation. Similarly, some of my LGBT gamer friends avoid socializing in games not because they don't want to but because it's so easy to end up burned by hostile "team" experiences (so they end up playing pretty much exclusively competitive or solo games). Purely social games tend to have good LGBT presence, but not all gay gamers want to play Second Life.
Female-friendly... eh. To be honest I've seen pretty much the same range of behavior in CoH as I've seen in other MMOs. The advantage CoH has is that we tend to lose many of our most immature players very quickly; we definitely have an at least older crowd on average. But I'm not sure how this could be tapped without literally coming out and saying, "We mock bros until they leave."
Actually...
Anyway, no one's saying that these should be the exclusive thrust of any marketing or interest-raising being done, but they are definitely worth keeping in mind. One niche market won't sustain a game, but two (senior MMO players and LGBT MMO players) plus some appeal towards a strong female image (although I don't think we necessarily need to mummy-wrap the female heroes) actually might.
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You know, I have NOT seen the level of homophobia and misogyny in this game, that I've seen in WoW. I was on a "Smaller" Roleplaying server on WoW and the homophobia and misogyny is RAMPANT over in that game. CoH, even on Freedom, the hatred isn't HALF as bad as it is on WoW. I haven't even seen any racism here. This community does NOT stand for hate of any kind. I see it pop up in chat and it's very quickly shut down by the community and GM's. In WoW not so much.
So, instead of claiming it to be LGBT, Female friendly, this community is DIVERSE, and embraces diversity. We don't stand for hate. We stand for love. Even the "Villain" Population doesn't stand for that kind of crap. We've helped many people with disabilities overcome them. I remember reading a story from a mom, who's son has Aspergers/Autism. His social skills were literally non-existent. He came to CoH, he LEARNED social skills through a virtual medium. He took the stuff he learned from the game and applied it to real life. You know what, I WANTED TO DO THAT FOR MY DAUGHTER. (who has Aspergers) We were gently pushing her interest to this game. (she's 9 right now) She has her own form of obsessions and in order to turn her to something else we have to be easy and gentle to get her to accept a new idea. Anyway she was getting to the point of trying out this game. We were going to team with her and guide her safely and teach her Internet safety and the like, in the protection of our friends. We were going to use this as an ABA tool. Families with Autism, have so many struggles, that any tool in the toolbox, helps tremendously. We felt safe enough with this game, to add it to our toolbox.
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Just as "girl-friendly" unfortunately carries the connotation in advertising and business circles that it's a "girly game" (rather than the proper denotative meaning of "girls can have fun juts as much as guys"), so, too, does "lgbt-friendly" carry the unfortunate connotation that it somehow puts that community front-and-center in a way that emphasizes and glorifies those lifestyles/leanings/whatever-you-wish-to-term-them. (Forgive my clumsy wording here; I have been burned in the past because it seems any blanket term I use in this context offends somebody, and that's never my intent.) "lbgt-friendly" says, to many people, "not family-friendly." In part, this is the fault of many in the lgbt movement. Not the majority, but the vocal and rather crass minority. People hear "lbgt" and think "gay pride parade." And because that's the connotation marketers expect the public to associate, it will tend to frighten off many potential investors.
After all, how many of the touching testimonials have we heard that centered in some way around families getting together over this game? Parents and kids playing it together? If "lbgt-friendly" makes newcoming parents think "not kid-friendly," they will be turned off by it. And the ad campaigns necessary to rebrand it again would be seen by that obnoxious vocal minority to be attempting to "gay-bash" or otherwise make it not friendly to their cause.
In short, while keeping the elements that do make it genuinely "lbgt-friendly" (I confess to not knowing what those are) is excellent, remembering that "lbgt" people are just that - PEOPLE - and treating them as such is more important than trying to make a "I wouldn't want HATEFUL BIGOTS in this game!" statement that might scare off potential investors. Calling part of your potential audience "hateful" for nothing more than being a bit uncomfortable with the stereotype that unfortunately is promulgated by the vocal-and-visible obnoxious minority is - even if justified (and I'm not saying it is or isn't) - just plain bad business.
edited to add: So, while these can be selling points to target audiences if we're careful about not making them seem like central things, we should be cautious about throwing them about willy-nilly, especially without explanation.
A better approach is to, for all such potential hot-button "X-friendly" labels, mention how it's friendly to all sorts of traditionally-not-welcome-feeling groups because of those elements that make it so. Emphasize the elements and not the groups. People ARE intelligent analytical beings when acting as individuals. Let them have the information and draw their own conclusions, rather than giving them the conclusion and having them concoct their own (often wrong) information.
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Hence why I said "this game community embraces diversity" "We are a very diverse gaming community from all walks of life, faiths, creeds, and beliefs"
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edited to add: So, while these can be selling points to target audiences if we're careful about not making them seem like central things, we should be cautious about throwing them about willy-nilly, especially without explanation.
A better approach is to, for all such potential hot-button "X-friendly" labels, mention how it's friendly to all sorts of traditionally-not-welcome-feeling groups because of those elements that make it so. Emphasize the elements and not the groups. People ARE intelligent analytical beings when acting as individuals. Let them have the information and draw their own conclusions, rather than giving them the conclusion and having them concoct their own (often wrong) information.
That's pretty much what I said. >.>
The intent of this thread was not selling point to gamers, but selling points to a business. A business will need to look at the game purely from the numbers perspective: How marketable is this? What will make this game worth our time and money to purchase and get it up and running?
Marketing it to seniors: Most likely a waste of money, a miniscule fraction of the people who see the advertisements will actually be interested. It also has the potential pitfall of making the core demographic go "This game is for old people, ech, I'm gonna go play something cool."
Marketing it to girls: Would maybe work if they did it right, but they probably wouldn't. It would likely end up being wasted money, and possibly cause the core demographic to turn away from it 'cause the game is "girly".. Additionally it might cause a backlash from real gamer girls pissed about the advertising campaign.
Marketing it to the LGBT community: Quite possibly would work- but it is guaranteed to cause at least some level of backlash. You and I may say "Well if people quit because they're homophobes, fine." unfortunately gay money is the same as straight money, so the business has to ask itself "Well we get enough LGBT players to overshadoow the loss of homophobic players?". Additionally, this could cause a /major/ problem in the game: If there is an advertisement for a F2P game that makes it clear it is LGBT friendly... you know what's going to happen, right? The game will likely get hit with throw-away accounts just to be bigoted cocks. It's a sad fact, but there are an unfortunate number of people that feel it is their God-given mission to try and shame homosexuals out of existence.
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Marketing it to seniors: Most likely a waste of money, a miniscule fraction of the people who see the advertisements will actually be interested. It also has the potential pitfall of making the core demographic go "This game is for old people, ech, I'm gonna go play something cool."
The core demographic would never see the specialized advertisements. How many teenagers do you see reading AARP magazine?
Just like--how many homophobes were/are aware that Travelocity has specialized advertisements in gay publications?
Targeted ads are just that, and becoming more sophisticated all the time, to the kind of creepy extent that Target knows someone is pregnant, sometimes even before she has told family members....
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www)
That same holds for any other demographic group.
It's even easier to insert online ads that are demographic-targeted without making it obvious that your demographic is BEING targeted. Google does that all the time with their sidebar ads. For girls, for instance, all you need to do is pay Google to insert a sidebar for CoH when the combination of female + gamer turns up, though obviously you can get a lot more specific than that.
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Folks I have a marketing background and currently work in an offshoot of the field.
I don't pretend to know everything an investor is going to look for but there is a major misconception about marketing options.
Different adds with completely different approaches are often created for the very same product when courting different audiences. Does every product do this, of course not. But if I wanted to appeal to pull in a specific demographic I would put advertising efforts geared toward them in a venue seen mostly by them while keeping more general appeal adds in more main stream venues.
For instance look at how "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" was approached very differently in the more evangelical versus secular community venues.
It was the exact same movie and it contained some Christian themes which that audience could point to but it was also reasonably balanced so as not to alienate those who were not necessarilly looking to see that aspect of them. I know because I was watching very closely when they began promoting that movie and saw them play both sides of that fence quite well ;)
The add I might place in the AARP magazine would be very different from the one that might go in an LGBT venue, or the one in a gamestop.
I'm not completely sure what to put on there for an investor business but I know how I would seperate those advertising efforts ;) and intertwine them.
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Folks I have a marketing background and currently work in an offshoot of the field.
I don't pretend to know everything an investor is going to look for but there is a major misconception about marketing options.
Different adds with completely different approaches are often created for the very same product when courting different audiences. Does every product do this, of course not. But if I wanted to appeal to pull in a specific demographic I would put advertising efforts geared toward them in a venue seen mostly by them while keeping more general appeal adds in more main stream venues.
For instance look at how "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" was approached very differently in the more evangelical versus secular community venues.
It was the exact same movie and it contained some Christian themes which that audience could point to but it was also reasonably balanced so as not to alienate those who were not necessarilly looking to see that aspect of them. I know because I was watching very closely when they began promoting that movie and saw them play both sides of that fence quite well ;)
The add I might place in the AARP magazine would be very different from the one that might go in an LGBT venue, or the one in a gamestop.
I'm not completely sure what to put on there for an investor business but I know how I would seperate those advertising efforts ;) and intertwine them.
The real question is though:
For an MMORPG: how likely would advertising to those demographics be to actually work?
If for every $X spent on marketing to (demographic), they can get 1 senior citizen, 2 LGBT people, 4 girls, or 10 'gamers'.. which is a company going to do?
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The real question is though:
For an MMORPG: how likely would advertising to those demographics be to actually work?
If for every $X spent on marketing to (demographic), they can get 1 senior citizen, 2 LGBT people, 4 girls, or 10 'gamers'.. which is a company going to do?
Realistically all of them targeted at different venues if that senior citizen is spending more than the ads cost.
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The non-traditional gamer is our core audience, IMO, now we can either let that be an assett or a weakness. This is a game of inclusion that unites families across distance and generations. It is a game of community we can't compete in the same realm of other MMOs and we don't want to...we have our own niche and spun correctly that can be our strength instead of our weakness