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Graveyard => Save Paragon Retirees => Save Paragon City! => Topic started by: Mantic on September 10, 2012, 08:28:38 AM

Title: A Million Reasons
Post by: Mantic on September 10, 2012, 08:28:38 AM
This thought occurred to me looking at the videos and screencaps of the three thousand people who were at the Virtue Atlas rally. Plus reading reasons that players don't want to migrate to other games, which often include some mention of the character creator.

Every one of us has not just one avatar and one unique costume in this game. If the 10K+ players signing petitions just counted all their alts we could easily have over a million unique characters, or at least costumes (that's just 100 each, and I know that as a particularly prolific user of the costume creator I have over 200 actual active toons, not counting drastically different costumes and even more AE critters).

So, as a way of showing off to potential investors what is arguably the main aspect that puts City of Heroes game above all the alternatives, how about setting up a photo gallery where everyone can post individual screencaps of their many different creations? Call it "A Million Reasons" (if a picture is worth a thousand words, that's a billion of 'em) and make it a permanent archive for reference and promotion of the #SaveCOH efforts.

Downside of this is that the gallery would need local hosting, because the last thing you'd want is potential investors seeing Photobucket logos telling them that CoX players don't care that much about this stuff, and that would be a bigger bandwidth hit in the next few months than any little cheap hosting package could handle. Putting a strict limit on file size might help with that, though.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: emu265 on September 10, 2012, 08:30:59 AM
I like it.  I can't comment on logistical issues, because I'm clueless when it comes to that stuff.  But it's got a nice ring to it and really drives our point home.  Nicely thought out.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Mantic on September 11, 2012, 07:28:26 AM
So... not much interest?  ???

It might be possible to do this on the cheap using a DeviantArt (http://"http://www.deviantart.com") Group. A lot of CoH players already have pages there so someone may know what is needed to set up such a group and could post a guide to setting up accounts and submitting screencaps.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Victoria Victrix on September 11, 2012, 07:34:58 AM
I think it's a good plan.  And I know it's possible to host a photo gallery on a website, because we do that for my SG.  I just don't know how to do it, someone else wrote the code.

In fact, I would offer our website buuuuuuuut I do not think that you want this to be under the banner of "Coalition of Communist Crusaders for the Proletariat."
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Mantic on September 11, 2012, 10:02:59 AM
Setting up a domain and a basic hosting package is pretty easy; it's the amount of storage and transfer involved that is scary.

I hit up Google Image Search for City of Heroes character and this image popped up on the first page:

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com%2Fimages01%2F102%2Fcbb98e9b616b170dd45a6ef196a8f904%2Fl.jpg)

It's a nicely compressed jpeg coming in at just shy of 50kb (comparable images that also popped up ranged up to 100kb). So lets say the file size limit is set at 50kb, and cap the gallery at exactly one million images. That's nearly 50GB of storage. And who knows how much traffic on a monthly basis...

It would be an awesome sight (and site), but not cheap to host.

However, DeviantArt hosts images freely, and has a system whereby groups can collect references to all the images in member galleries (though I think there is a fee for maintenance of larger groups, there is already a system in place for safely donating funds toward maintaining a group). In all, that may be the cheapest, most stable option available.


Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Tahliah on September 11, 2012, 10:09:06 AM
I think it's a great idea, but I've no idea about hosting costs, etc.  If this pans out, though, count me (and my many many alts) in!  :D
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Mantic on September 11, 2012, 10:28:59 AM
...count me (and my many many alts) in!  :D

Thanks Tahliah. :)

Anyone wanting to contribute, at least you can start taking the screenshots for it (if you aren't already doing so for personal mementos), and maybe setting up a free dA (http://"https://www.deviantart.com/join?joinpoint=standard&utm_source=DA&utm_medium=UB&utm_campaign=DA_UB_JoinNow_091409&utm_content=JoinNow") membership.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Vulpy on September 11, 2012, 10:29:30 AM
If we're all using our own photohosting websites, it should defray the bandwidth costs. Then, the "gallery" could be a message board thread--harder to navigate, but impressive in its own right.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Mantic on September 11, 2012, 10:32:18 AM
Yeah (and it would be easy enough to set up a gallery doing it that way, too), but it would look bad having images getting dropped, leaving broken image links or hosting banners, because some members need their hosting space for something else.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: jacknomind on September 11, 2012, 11:04:25 AM
Haha.  Mantic, can I actually ask you to hold off on this pending something Riff and Tony are working on?  Or even, not hold off so much as be able to merge it with their project.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: dwturducken on September 11, 2012, 11:11:28 AM
So... not much interest?  ???

Well, you did post your idea when the apparent majority of posters were likely asleep. :)

I'm down, but about to start a very busy day of waiting in medical waiting rooms (Nothing's wrong; it's an annual checkup at a VA hospital. Bureaucracy rushes for no man!)

A lot of folks here have mentioned archiving favorite characters in various ways. I'm sure having a public gallery for them has a certain appeal.  There may even be one hosted on a different sight, already.  It certainly sounds like something members of this community would do.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Mantic on September 11, 2012, 11:17:56 AM
Haha.  Mantic, can I actually ask you to hold off on this pending something Riff and Tony are working on?

Absolutely. PM me if I need cluing in on anything without spilling the beans, not that I'm doing anything special here.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: jacknomind on September 11, 2012, 11:21:38 AM
There isn't anything really secret.  It's just a similar sort of project.  I'll ping Riff to look at this thread when he's online.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: The-Hunter-JLJ on September 11, 2012, 11:53:47 AM
I like the idea a lot. Never been great about screenshots, but I have a few weeks to shoot copies of all my costumes still I guess.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: eabrace on September 11, 2012, 01:22:38 PM
Should I point out www.ouroportal.com?  Why, look at that, they're the Paragon Wiki's sister site and part of the Titan Network, too!  ;)
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Mantic on September 11, 2012, 01:48:35 PM
Having that kind of tightness with Titan would be nice.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Kheprera on September 11, 2012, 02:27:36 PM
I've already got a lot of screenshots and willing to go get more.  Count me and my clotheshorse character Mally to get in on the fun.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Victoria Victrix on September 12, 2012, 06:39:51 AM
(https://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/vickievee/Vigil.jpg)

This is only 30k

I'm guessing similar head-torch-and-afk-message screenies would be about the same size.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Mantic on September 12, 2012, 11:19:45 AM
This is only 30k

I'm guessing similar head-torch-and-afk-message screenies would be about the same size.

I dig the emotional appeal angle of that, but I'd rather see the whole costume. Wanting to show off the versatility of the character creator in the hands of 10,000+ highly creative players.

Jpeg compression can be configured for higher or lower file sizes (it can get ugly, though). Here are a couple of online tools to do that if you don't have local software: jpeg-optimizer.com (http://"http://jpeg-optimizer.com") and dynamicdrive image optimizer (http://"http://tools.dynamicdrive.com/imageoptimizer")

Still wondering what Jack, Riff, and Tony are working on (perhaps a subsection of Ouroboros Portal?). Size limits would not be needed if images are posted to deviantArt galleries as I suggested earlier, but might be if Titan is hosting it all.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: The-Hunter-JLJ on September 12, 2012, 12:48:25 PM
Should I point out www.ouroportal.com?  Why, look at that, they're the Paragon Wiki's sister site and part of the Titan Network, too!  ;)

You guys have so much on Titan Network, you can't seriously expect all of us to have looked at all of it. <wink> We'd never have time to play if we did. "Ooooooo. Shiney." (I guess you hadda be a DDO player)
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: The-Hunter-JLJ on September 12, 2012, 12:50:49 PM

This is only 30k

I'm guessing similar head-torch-and-afk-message screenies would be about the same size.

You look quite fetching in that shot. (lol) Simple as it is, I think I am more proud of that dumb little macro than anything else I've written in my 7 plus years in CoH.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: eabrace on September 12, 2012, 12:56:43 PM
You guys have so much on Titan Network, you can't seriously expect all of us to have looked at all of it. <wink> We'd never have time to play if we did.
I know exactly what you mean.  :)

Quote
"Ooooooo. Shiney." (I guess you hadda be a DDO player)
You've just tapped into the battle cry of my Master Mechanic Rogue, sir.  :)
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: The-Hunter-JLJ on September 12, 2012, 01:08:24 PM
"Kobold still hates you. "

I had several, my favorite was a paladin hunter of the dead. I am a D&D player & gamesmaster going WAY back, I'm neglecting my online D&D game in favor of the Save COH campaign as we speak, in fact. I loved DDO, but finally just couldn't take some of the development choices any more and haven't played in a while. But I digress, and I had an idea that was actually relevant in another thread.

We shouldn't just be saving screenshots. We should encourage everyone to do a demorecord of their characters, extract the record, and post THOSE to a library somewhere. That would immortalize everyone's characters in a form that would be very useful to the community of demorecord artists.

I am going to have to scrounge around and refresh my memory of all this. I distinctly remember that it was possible to extract the information in a demorecord which defines your character. That was the key discovery that allowed me to do a wallpaper for my gaming desktop at the time which showed all my characters posed together for a group shot. Have to scrounge around and find all the demorecords and work files I used to put that together, though I bet someone can save me the work of refreshing my memory.

An archive of demorecords is not as visually appealing to the casual viewer on a website as screenshots. But it would be vastly more useful to the community in many ways. I wonder if you could set up some sort of modelling site that allowed you to upload demorecord copies of a character and then rotate the model so people could admire our characters from all angles? Way beyond my skills, but... wait. I see this coming. I better go explore Titan Network and make sure they are not way ahead of me before I say more.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Kobolt on September 12, 2012, 01:22:03 PM
Hey guys there is a DA site that is unofficially the CoH of DA and they have a folder for screenshots...
http://cityofheroes.deviantart.com/
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: eabrace on September 12, 2012, 01:26:00 PM
We shouldn't just be saving screenshots. We should encourage everyone to do a demorecord of their characters, extract the record, and post THOSE to a library somewhere. That would immortalize everyone's characters in a form that would be very useful to the community of demorecord artists.
Demorecords are good.  Costume files (saved at the tailor) are also good.  Sentinel+ saving everything about your character in XML - including all of your costume slots at once - is a good way to go, too.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: The-Hunter-JLJ on September 12, 2012, 01:31:47 PM
Demorecords are good.  Costume files (saved at the tailor) are also good.  Sentinel+ saving everything about your character in XML - including all of your costume slots at once - is a good way to go, too.

I *think* I have a costume file of every costume I've made for every character. Need to get busy and verify that. I already went through and did a Sentinel+ save of all my characters. Next pass I need to do a demorecord of all of them. Probably a separate save for each costume, I guess.

Maybe some day we'll have a utility to convert the Sentinel+ save to a demorecord entry, that would be nice. But in the meantime I think I'll make up a demorecord with all costumes of all my characters... that would be handy to have around anyway.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Codewalker on September 12, 2012, 01:41:56 PM
Maybe some day we'll have a utility to convert the Sentinel+ save to a demorecord entry, that would be nice. But in the meantime I think I'll make up a demorecord with all costumes of all my characters... that would be handy to have around anyway.

That's actually pretty easy to do by hand if you want to. All you have to do is open up an existing demorecord file, find the COSTUME entry for the entity you wan to change, and copy the lines out of the Sentinel+ XML file. They're written in the same format and should be in the same order so you can just copy/paste them.

Costume files are slightly more involved, but all the information is there, it just needs to be reformatted. I'm sure there's some scripting pros lurking around here who could probably whip something up to do it automatically...
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: zybron on September 12, 2012, 01:52:36 PM
I'm coming in a bit late on this discussion, it seems, but what about Pinterest (http://www.pinterest.com)? It's designed to host images and is one of the fastest growing social network sites. Seems like an ideal place to gather and post images. I'm not certain if we would want a single SaveCoH account to post all the images or if it would be better for everyone to post screenshots from their own accounts, though.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: The-Hunter-JLJ on September 12, 2012, 03:24:33 PM
That's actually pretty easy to do by hand if you want to. All you have to do is open up an existing demorecord file, find the COSTUME entry for the entity you wan to change, and copy the lines out of the Sentinel+ XML file. They're written in the same format and should be in the same order so you can just copy/paste them.

Costume files are slightly more involved, but all the information is there, it just needs to be reformatted. I'm sure there's some scripting pros lurking around here who could probably whip something up to do it automatically...

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to try that and see how it turns out. Would be a lot easier than making 42 demorecords, then extracting all the characters and combining them into one file. I saw Leandro's post about the "crowd scene" perl scripts he wrote and saved it. I'm thinking of pulling together enough info to do a "crowd" of my own characters. Hmmn. Should be possible to do a script in Openoffice or something to process the Sentinel+ output into a COSTUME entry. Been meaning to figure out their scripting anyway. No more than I have to do might be faster to just do it by hand, we'll see.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Mantic on September 12, 2012, 03:32:43 PM
Hey guys there is a DA site that is unofficially the CoH of DA and they have a folder for screenshots...
http://cityofheroes.deviantart.com/

I'm aware of that, but they're more general purpose that what I was after. I can draw anything, it says nothing about the game. Images that actually show the characters/costumes in the game show exactly what is being snuffed out (never to be seen again so far as we know), as well as a feature that makes the game uniquely attractive.

Besides, the existing City of Heroes group on dA has established moderators who may not be prepared to be swamped by a million screenshot submissions.


--

A note about demorecords: they are as limited as they are powerful. Demorecoding artists can put together any combination of animation and character definition, regardless of what powers your characters have. But if you don't record those powers/animations somewhere, there won't be a reference for them. So if you are using demorecord to store your characters, you may want to cycle through their powers while recording as well.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Victoria Victrix on September 12, 2012, 08:21:18 PM
You know, you guys make my head explode.  I can barely take a screenshot, I would love to have demorecords to play back, but I don't know how to make them or play them.   :gonk: :'(
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: The-Hunter-JLJ on September 12, 2012, 08:37:04 PM
You know, you guys make my head explode.  I can barely take a screenshot, I would love to have demorecords to play back, but I don't know how to make them or play them.   :gonk: :'(

Easier than you think. Happens I know a great website to give you the basics of making a demorecord:

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Demorecord_(Slash_Command)

more details

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Demo_Recording

So the short form is, type

/demorecord <name you want the file to have>

That starts the "camera". It will record everything around your hero. Well, actually, everything in the zone at the time, but who's counting? When you've done whatever it is you want to record for posterity, you can type

/demostop

Voila! There is now a file in the directory where your City Of Heroes is installed that has the name <whatever you used above>.cohdemo

Now, any time you want to play them back, you need nothing but the game client. You will need to do a little editing to make a shortcut that is set up to play demo files rather than connect to the game server. That process is fairly simple, but long enough that I'm going to refer you to that second wiki page rather than retyping it here.  A lot of people bypass that step by downloading something like  Zloth's CoH Demo Launcher program:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~dasloth/CoH/Demos/DemoLaunch.htm

You can do a LOT more than just record your character's glory using the demorecord system, as people like Samuraiko and Leandro and many others show us regularly. Kinda an amazing feature of CoH, really. Hope this helps, trying to give you pointers to the info without overwhelming with technobabble, but I'm enough of a geek that it's hard not to babble technically even when I think I am speaking ze english.
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: Victoria Victrix on September 12, 2012, 08:45:17 PM
Hunter, I love you and will have your Kheldsquid Lovechildren.

Boy if I follow through on that, my squids are going to be budding a LOT....

THANK YOU!  I have that copied to a document on my computer for later use (so I can find it again).
Title: Re: A Million Reasons
Post by: The-Hunter-JLJ on September 12, 2012, 08:54:33 PM
Hunter, I love you and will have your Kheldsquid Lovechildren.

Boy if I follow through on that, my squids are going to be budding a LOT....

THANK YOU!  I have that copied to a document on my computer for later use (so I can find it again).

(twinkle) Kinky. No worries, great lady, after all the pleasures you have granted me over the years, glad to help out. As Obi Wan observed oh so long ago in a galaxy far, far away, you've taken your first step into a larger world. It is quite amazing what you can do with demorecords.

I sat down to learn a little about it a few years ago, and by the end of the afternoon I was able to produce a "movie" with all 12 of my characters on Protector standing heroically on the bridge outside the Founder's Falls train station. Let me see... drat, only version of it I still have is an early "goof", the final version is on a machine I have out on loan. But it probably is good enough to illustrate anyway:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=315879001844360&set=a.315878985177695.65776.100002667875920&type=3&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=315879001844360&set=a.315878985177695.65776.100002667875920&type=3&theater)

The mistake I made was simple - the second row is standing out over the water. Time to search the backups and see if I can turn up the good version.