Print Page - Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe

Community => Comics and Other Media => Topic started by: hurple on June 01, 2015, 02:15:14 AM

Title: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: hurple on June 01, 2015, 02:15:14 AM

This is going to be tangentially related to the Flash... But, I'm mainly wanting to rail on Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe.

Yuck.

I think after 40 years and all the changes, a Crisis on Infinite Worlds, a Zero Hour, an Infinite Crisis, a Final Crisis, and a Flashpoint leading to a disgustingly tepid new-52niverse... DC has finally lost me. The Convergence was fun, some books were great, most were not. It was great to see the *real* Superman, JSA, Blue Beetle and Marvel Family again. Unfortunately, and I doubt this is what DC had in mind when they planned this thing, seeing them again just highlighted how horrid their new universe actually is. Everybody in it, from Superduperman (of the newly underwearless look) to Space-Blue-Beetle are prats at best, assholes at worst. Not one of them is anybody I would ever want to be friends with, let alone read about.

And is it just me, or was issue 8 of the actual "Convergence" book just the DC version of the last 10 minutes of Who Framed Roger Rabbit? All the "heroes" just standing around over the fallen body of the villain discussing what happened and where to go from there, just to disperse and go about their business as Porky Pig shoo-ed them away... "Th-th-th-th-that's All Folks!"

Then I started reading the "Sneak Preview" cbr files I found online... Holy CHRIST are they bad. Every. Single. One. (Exception... Justice League, the Darksied War looks fun) What they've done to Black Canary, for example, is patheticly lame. And what's with a new costume for Flash? And the most ungodly horrendously hideously ugly costume ever, at that! I thought the New 52 retro-fit costumes were hideous, they were high fashion compared to what's coming.

That's it. Just had to vent.

See ya DC. It was a fun ride.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: doc7924 on June 01, 2015, 02:29:25 AM

It felt like an episode of Star Trek the Next Generation or Voyager - 44 minutes of mystery and drama all wrapped and finished in the last 2 minutes.

Since they did Crisis in 1985 to get rid of the alternate Earths and all the multiple versions of heroes, they have spent the last 30 years constantly bringing them back in one form or another - Elseworlds, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, Hypertime. etc.

So after 30 years DC finally said "Screw It!"

Spoiler for Hidden:

I gave up buying DC with the new 52 As DC thought it would be a good jumping on point, for many fans, like me, it was also a great jumping OFF point.

I bought most of the Convergence for old times sake, but it was like 2 months of nothing happening that was advertised.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: Felderburg on June 01, 2015, 04:01:02 AM

I'm sort of under the impression that this is all a good thing. Rather than being all tied up in continuity or whatever, writers will be able to use whatever version of a hero suits them best.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: hurple on June 01, 2015, 05:23:09 AM

Quote from: doc7924 on June 01, 2015, 02:29:25 AM

Spoiler for Hidden:
In the last two pages , OFF PANEL, not even shown, a few heroes are sent back to the original Crisis and either prevent it outright or at least stop all the alternate Earths from being destroyed. So now we have the old multiverse back, which has 'evolved' over the years, which of course we also don't see, but the new DCU is still the main DCU - to be replaced I think with the "NEW" New DCU or something like that.

Oh, yes... that was downright insulting to the readers, I thought. Maybe that will be a story that will be told soon. (But, probably, by the worst writer/artist team they have under contract right now)

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: doc7924 on June 01, 2015, 09:41:12 AM

Quote from: Felderburg on June 01, 2015, 04:01:02 AM

I'm sort of under the impression that this is all a good thing. Rather than being all tied up in continuity or whatever, writers will be able to use whatever version of a hero suits them best.

And then in about 5 years DC will say - "That's too confusing to the readers" and we will have another reboot or whatever.

If hey have everything back, then there should be no reason for anymore restarts of the DCU.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: doc7924 on June 01, 2015, 12:53:47 PM

Quote from: hurple on June 01, 2015, 05:23:09 AM

Oh, yes... that was downright insulting to the readers, I thought. Maybe that will be a story that will be told soon. (But, probably, by the worst writer/artist team they have under contract right now)

To me that was the disappointing part. This series could have been about going back to undo the Crisis instead of doing it in a two page off panel text box.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: hurple on June 01, 2015, 03:28:38 PM

Spoiler for Hidden:

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: Golden Girl on June 01, 2015, 07:00:39 PM

Anything that lessens the horror of the New 52 is welcome :P

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: saipaman on June 01, 2015, 08:07:07 PM

I almost bought Convergence.

I decided against it because if the Convergence books were good, then my anger towards DC would be be reignited. On the other hand, if I bought the books and they were bad, DC would have taken me for yet another ride.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: hurple on June 01, 2015, 08:34:02 PM

Quote from: Golden Girl on June 01, 2015, 07:00:39 PM

Anything that lessens the horror of the New 52 is welcome :P

Oh, you have not seen horror like what's coming...

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: Vee on June 01, 2015, 10:29:47 PM

Quote from: saipaman on June 01, 2015, 08:07:07 PM

I almost bought Convergence.

I decided against it because if the Convergence books were good, then my anger towards DC would be be reignited. On the other hand, if I bought the books and they were bad, DC would have taken me for yet another ride.

Unless you're just talking about the main series buying convergence would run you around 400 bucks (not counting any sales tax). Given that is there any level of quality that wouldn't make you feel like you're being taken for a ride?

I get them free and I'm still annoyed just from the standpoint of sorting and having to make 40 separate folders for 1 event.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: saipaman on June 01, 2015, 11:14:43 PM

I would only have bought a handful of titles:

Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes
Infinity Inc.
Justice Society of America
Plastic Man and the Freedom Fighters

As you can tell, I'm a fan of team books.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: hurple on June 02, 2015, 12:12:34 AM

Quote from: saipaman on June 01, 2015, 11:14:43 PM

I would only have bought a handful of titles:

Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes
Infinity Inc.
Justice Society of America
Plastic Man and the Freedom Fighters

As you can tell, I'm a fan of team books.

Out of those, only the JSA was really any good. Unfortunately.

The Captain Marvel title was the absolute best of the bunch, but the 90's Superman (I forget which Superman title that was) was good too. I enjoyed ALL the Blue Beetle-centric titles (Justice League International, Blue Beetle), including Booster Gold. Harley Quinn was fun. As was Supergirl Matrix (I did a spit-take when Ambush Bug turned it into a Romance Comic.) And I enjoyed Justice League America.

The main title was fun, but very disjointed and confusing. It seems like it would have been better as 12 issues rather than just 8. And I really do not like any of the New-52 Earth-2 JSA, except Superman.

Otherwise, it seemed a complete wash to me.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: saipaman on June 02, 2015, 02:12:33 AM

It served it's purpose for DC. The event covered their move from New York to LA. We'll see how it goes from here.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: Eoraptor on June 02, 2015, 05:04:16 PM

Honestly, it smacks of desperation to me. DC has finally forced themselves to admit that the nu52's "Everyone is Batman" mentality of grim and gritty reboots is an utter failure with few bright spots. But they haven't yet admitted WHY that is; top-down editorial meddling and getting away from character's core values with gimmick writing. So now they are desperately throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks in place of their not-so-brave reboot experiment gone awry. So we'll just see more gimmick writing (rabbit robot batman, superman-is-superboy, DC Power Princesses, etc) as the comics that gave us the very archetype of the superhero slide further into obscurity.

My best case scenario for this is that DC's comic-book making wing becomes so unprofitable and unwieldly that in five-ten years Time Warner will be forced to spin it off, which will be the final, ultimate clearing of house that the company needs to get rid of all-star asshats like Didio; and the archetypal characters we all know and love can finally begin to again flourish.

Worst case scenario, though, is that the superhero movie bubble continues on for a very long time, and time warner lets the comics wing limp along just to serve as a crippled tie-in and IP anchor to the movie and tv products and it becomes an utterly shambling zombie devoid of any meritorious content of its own.

but I've been accused of being a misanthrope and YMMV

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: saipaman on June 03, 2015, 06:08:47 PM

If you are interested in the (estimated) sales for Convergence, read this:

http://www.comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-april-2015-this-comics-company-took-off-two-months-to-move-across-the-country-and-you-wont-believe-what-happened-next/

The short version being these books sold well.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: Vee on June 03, 2015, 06:22:39 PM

So people still fall for the #1 thing even if there are 40 of them. They should definitely bring back foil and holograms.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: saipaman on June 04, 2015, 03:28:10 AM

In this case, it might simply be nostalgia for books that were worth reading.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: CG on June 04, 2015, 12:36:35 PM

Quote from: saipaman on June 04, 2015, 03:28:10 AM

In this case, it might simply be nostalgia for books that were worth reading.

You could see each purchase for an old character in a new comic as a vote for that character (or version thereof) to come back.

Or, you know - #1 OMG!

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: hurple on June 04, 2015, 01:47:27 PM

Quote from: CG on June 04, 2015, 12:36:35 PM

You could see each purchase for an old character in a new comic as a vote for that character (or version thereof) to come back.

Yes. You could also read the uptick of sales on old characters versus usual sales as a complete rejection of the "New-52" and a desire to return to the old concepts, too.

Don't get me wrong, not *everything* about the New-52 is horrible... but it sure has been a slog through a swamp of awfulness to find the good-stuff. (And how in all that is holy has that god-awful Red Hood book lasted 40 issues?)

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: CG on June 04, 2015, 03:40:49 PM

Wow, are there ever a lot of bitter people here...
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FBOP5PBIghhc%2Fhqdefault.jpg)

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: Blackout on June 04, 2015, 04:26:43 PM

Quote from: CG on June 04, 2015, 03:40:49 PM

Wow, are there ever a lot of bitter people here...
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FBOP5PBIghhc%2Fhqdefault.jpg)

Unfortunately a LOT of comic fans are like this :(
I'm only just getting into them properly for the first time, not really sure how to respond with most of the comic fan base hating and despising nearly every modern comic in existence, but oh well.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: hurple on June 04, 2015, 06:15:36 PM

Quote from: Blackout on June 04, 2015, 04:26:43 PM

Unfortunately a LOT of comic fans are like this :(
I'm only just getting into them properly for the first time, not really sure how to respond with most of the comic fan base hating and despising nearly every modern comic in existence, but oh well.

But, I'm not a hater... Give me good characters and an interesting story, and I'll jump on board right away. But this new-52-verse is just... bleh. Mostly. I loved the Power Girl / Huntress team. And Earth-2 started out pretty good. Ah, and I LOVED Justice League Dark and Demon Knights was great until Paul Cornell left. More recently, Justice League 3000 has been a hoot.

However, the new costumes *SUCKED* all up and down the line. Jim Lee should never, ever, ever, never design costumes. Hideous.

I still love comics... just not (most) DC anymore. Seems like somewhere in the past 5 years they've forgotten comics are supposed to be *fun.* I still read Walking Dead, Masks, Green Hornet, Invincible, and enough other books to keep my brain good and full... But, DC... ugh. Most of the time when I read one of their books I feel like I need to follow-up by having a shower to wash away the stink.

And, again... it looks like the Darkseid War is going to be fun.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: saipaman on June 04, 2015, 06:40:33 PM

I used to be bitter at DC, but then I realized just how much money DC was saving me by giving me a giant jumping off point.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: Blackout on June 04, 2015, 06:56:27 PM

Quote from: hurple on June 04, 2015, 06:15:36 PM

But, I'm not a hater... Give me good characters and an interesting story, and I'll jump on board right away. But this new-52-verse is just... bleh. Mostly. I loved the Power Girl / Huntress team. And Earth-2 started out pretty good. Ah, and I LOVED Justice League Dark and Demon Knights was great until Paul Cornell left. More recently, Justice League 3000 has been a hoot.

However, the new costumes *SUCKED* all up and down the line. Jim Lee should never, ever, ever, never design costumes. Hideous.

I still love comics... just not (most) DC anymore. Seems like somewhere in the past 5 years they've forgotten comics are supposed to be *fun.* I still read Walking Dead, Masks, Green Hornet, Invincible, and enough other books to keep my brain good and full... But, DC... ugh. Most of the time when I read one of their books I feel like I need to follow-up by having a shower to wash away the stink.

And, again... it looks like the Darkseid War is going to be fun.

I get that, its just it is a little disheartening to see so much consistant negativity in a community that you're trying to/in the middle of finally breaking into after years of putting it off ^^
I don't disagree that some of the new stuff is badly thought out, I just think that too many people focus a little too much sayin "THIS IS WHAT WE DON'T WANT" and not quite enough time saying "THIS IS WHAT WE DO WANT", but eh, I could be (probably am :P) wrong.

[[EDIT: Fixed broken quote ~Agge]]

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: Vee on June 06, 2015, 02:00:13 AM

DCYou. Part of me is really embarrassed for them and the other part can't believe it took them this long to come up with that. Oh and that part is also embarrassed for them.

Title: Re: Convergence and the new, improved (tm), revamped DC Universe
Post by: Pengy on June 06, 2015, 01:05:42 PM

It's not De-see You, a hero that can turn others invisible?

Titan Network

Community => Comics and Other Media => Topic started by: hurple on June 01, 2015, 02:15:14 AM