Seeing as Disney has just bought Lucasfilm and all of its subsidiaries, I have to ask:
Have we thought about reaching out to them regarding the City of Heroes IP? Since it is a very family-friendly game, it might be worth a shot.
Except, I just remembered one word that makes this a problem: Marvel.
Disney has not done an MMORPG; I don't know that they would be interested in running one.
NCSoft is simply not interested in letting go of the IP either. There were two offers they turned down, and two more investor groups didn't even get a reply.
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on October 31, 2012, 01:39:46 AM
Disney has not done an MMORPG; I don't know that they would be interested in running one.
Actually... (http://piratesonline.go.com/welcome)
Disney owns Marvel.
Quote from: pandora114 on October 31, 2012, 01:51:41 AM
Disney owns Marvel.
That might be a plus - less competition if it's in their hands.
Quote from: pandora114 on October 31, 2012, 01:51:41 AM
Disney owns Marvel.
I mentioned that in the OP, actually.
Quote from: Quinch on October 31, 2012, 01:46:44 AM
Actually... (http://piratesonline.go.com/welcome)
Uh....that's not what I would call an MMORPG, Quinch.
Well, it's browser-based, instead of using a dedicated client, but from what I've dug up, it is technically an MMO.
Then again, it's three AM and I might be missing something.
They also have Toontown Online (http://toontown.go.com/")
Which is interesting, because it seems to be based around fighting off a corporation that wants to suck the fun out of the toons.
Quote According to the story of 'Toontown', the Cogs are joyless robots who only think of business and never of jokes, bent on forever changing Toontown to a gray place where no fun exists. Cogs come in four types: Bossbots (wear brown suits, symbol is a tie), Lawbots (wear gray suits, symbol is a gavel), Cashbots (wear dark green suits cobered in dollars, symbol is a dollar sign), and Sellbots (wear maroon suits, symbol is a bar graph) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toontown_Online)
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on October 31, 2012, 01:39:46 AM
NCSoft is simply not interested in letting go of the IP either. There were two offers they turned down, and two more investor groups didn't even get a reply.
I generally agree but there are only a few companies in the world with the money/influence to make people the proverbial 'offer they cannot refuse'. Disney is one of those companies.
If this happens, it will be based on two major assumptions.
The first is the one we all know. NCSoft has a history of never letting go of an IP. Unless they are willing to change that, nothing the Mouse can do will have an effect.
The second is whether or not Disney is willing to buy the property. For those of you not familiar with their corporate style, they are no longer among the most innovative of companies. In fact, they have developed the reputation of being very conservative (not politically) and waiting to let others prove a concept before they dip their toes in.
Part 2a is whether Disney is willing to make an offer big enough to catch NCSoft' attention. Having said that, they do have the ability to buy up NCSoft stock and make themselves a major influence but, once again the question is, would they?
Disney is known for running themeparks and an MMO is the ultimate in virtual themeparks. They even have a few online games under their control (Club Penguin, Marvel Online, <sort of> SWTOR) so they already have some experience. That may increase their willingness to do so.
City of Heroes is an already established property so they minimize their risk and it's already a family friendly property (no worse that the PoTC franchise) so it could fit into their established niche.
If they were able and willing to buy the property, the most ideal situation would be that they let it operate as a semi independant entity like Pixar and Marvel.
I would not mind if Disney did buy the property. The question still is, can they and would they?
/em ramblingthoughtsoff
Believe it or not, Disney is also behind some "not so family friendly" endeavors but usually dont display thier logo on those products because Disney is usually associated with family friendly and they dont want to inentionally messup that image.
The only downside I see to this idea is that Disney tends to buy big ticket items that are proven big money makers. As mentioned earlier, they dont take as many risks as they used to, especially after the John Carter fisaco and word on the street is that was suppose to be a relative sure bet.
The upside, you never know until the question is asked. We have a community here, they have the finance to ensure the game hasa proper budget and alot of times, they let the aquired property run the buisness and leave them alone as long as they are making money.
I say go for it. What's the worse that can happen? They say no.
The one problem here is if Diney buys the IP they may do it for the characters created for the game and nothing more. And since properties that originate elsewhere usually suffer a lot of early hype, unless you have a decent writer the series will last only about 2-3 years tops. As for the game, they are near launch with Marvel Heroes, so its doubtful they would be interested in CoH as a game.
Let's backtrack a little.
The primary question is, do we want Disney in charge of CoH? If that's a favorable outcome, then we have nothing to lose by trying to pitch it - at least nothing but time, effort and expectations, something we've been investing heavily into the rescue efforts since Black Friday anyway. By the looks of it, there are several reasons why Disney might not want to commit to it, but if we focused our efforts only on avenues that gave us a good chance of success, we would have packed up and went home from day one.
So, yeah. I say we keep throwing things at the wall until something finally sticks. Besides, with VV's fame in the fantasy and superhero writing genre and her open endorsement of the game, someone's eyes are going to light up with dollar signs, especially is the pitch is put forth by her in the first place. {disclaimer, I'm not trying to shanghai you into anything, but PR-wise, you're still our biggest gun}.
They'd probably at least be decent.
By the way, Toontown online is a year older than City of Heroes is.
As I've said, it's worth a shot.
Who'd be best for contacting them, anyway?
Actually, Quinch, in regards to PR, our biggest gun is what it has always been. The honest truth.
NCSoft cannot eliminate the evidence that continues to mount accusation after accusation in regards to their activity.
Well, I consider truth to be more along the lines of ammunition, whereas individuals act as delivery mechanisms.
Side idea what if it's not CoX that someone buys but PlanZ. What if we find a Producer to market our idea. Okay we don't have the name but Titan Network proof we have the community aka player interest.
Plan Z has no IP to buy from someone else. Plus we are still in the early EARLY design stage easier to add in ideas and concepts that a Producer might want. A fiancee backer would move us from Fans/community trying to keep our community together. To a group with the backing to go into a true Studio production outfit. Heck I can see the Incredibles making a guest appearance at the Mall!
Plan Z has to be extremely careful who we accept as a sponsor/backer/buyer. ESPECIALLY a buyer. Because the purpose of the enterprise is not just to produce a game in the short term and not just to make money (though both are goals), but rather is to preserve this community and, above all else, ensure that we never find ourselves in the position the CoH community now occupies (that is, still eager and willing to play in an active and healthy game that is closing for reasons we neither know nor understand), we need to be sure that the community-based-developers have sufficient control over its future to ensure that it can't and won't shut down just due to the whim of somebody who happens to have ownership rights.
I hope to establish a backup non-profit foundation which would "inherit" the game should Plan Z Studios ever find it could no longer afford to operate it. The foundation would run it and maintain it at its then-current state as long as it had the funds to do so, only shutting down when they ran out of money. Should it ever look to be turning profitable again to the point that a non-profit can't keep it up, then a for-profit will be licensed the rights to update and take over running it, as that's a more desirable state of health for said game than "maintenance mode." But the foundation will exist to preserve the community and its home, just in case. It's a final fall-back.
Getting a major corporate sponsor would be helpful; getting a major corporate OWNER could prevent such things. It might not be the end of the world; it could be nothing but good. Corporations are not inherently evil, and well-run ones recognize value and preserve it. But corporate politics can get in the way of corporate self-interest when what's good for the company is not as good for an individual in a place of power as something he could do to misuse his position to profit himself. Ethics are well and good, but systems are imperfect and corruptible people will make corrupt choices at times.
Since the response of Plan Z is specifically to a case where seemingly-bad corporate decisions are killing CoH, we have to be careful not to stumble into a duplicate situation, even if we have every reason to trust our NCSoft-analog now. Who's to say whoever made the decision at NCSoft wouldn't get hired by Disney in six years and make the same decisions again? (Unlikely, but not outside the realm of possibility.)
So, if we're going to get a corporate owner, we have to have the setup in place to protect the original goal of the project in case things go sour.
My $0.02 in here is that NCSoft simply will not let go of the CoX IP, period.
Consider what they have already turned down: two offers that would, in every sense of the word, not earn themselves back in revenue for the buyer unless they manage an enormous upswing in player base or other income. I'm talking about long-term returns here, as CoX will inevitably reach the end of its life some day; even with those taken into account, the offers were already pushing what was feasible with how CoX was running on the current user base.
Meaning: they have been purposefully pricing themselves out of the market. This means that it precludes any reasonable offer for the buyer, and I don't think Disney or any other company with enough assets to be the big player that they have to be to buy this will have such a lapse in sense that they offer a stupid amount of money in an investment they are never getting their ROI on.
Quote from: wolfbeast on October 31, 2012, 02:57:28 PMI don't think Disney or any other company with enough assets to be the big player that they have to be to buy this will have such a lapse in sense that they offer a stupid amount of money in an investment they are never getting their ROI on.
Well, to play Devil's Advocate here...
Disney is such a mammoth enterprise that they could cross-market the IP and use relatively-trivial advertising budget to draw players from bases that no other MMO company had ever HOPED to reach that they could likely turn a profit off of both an upswing in player-base
and use of the IP in numerous other areas. There are advantages to being such a MAJOR player.
Heck, just enabling Marvel and CoH to co-exist could enable them to comfortably assume a dominance in the superhero MMO market by ensuring that anybody who prefers either play-style is ultimately paying Disney. That kind of market-share increase is not to be underestimated in value. Admittedly, it looks like the competition is being killed by its current owner, but the risk that they're "up to something" and the fact that buying it for themselves would
win them players they might otherwise not get from the base that has been abandoned by NCSoft is also advantageous.
I agree Wolf. At this point It seems NCsoft got cotton in the ears and not listening to anything. Either they are working with someone that Has a MMO they think would be in conflict with CoX, so they closed CoX to free up the players for the new game (.. shivers thinking of B&S..) Or they think that in a few years they can produce a CoX2 and win us back with a shiny new Statesman and Ms. Liberty (who be in a thong at that point).
But to everyone who has half a brain neither of those make sense! Seems Plan Z is quickly becoming Plan A.
I agree Segev thought having a backer would be nice it also risky. Our biggest issue from my view is paying for everything. One reason most of my ideas I add in someway it could be used to generate funds somehow. Not always good Ideas but Ideas at least lol.
"Ranger-two, tracking the target, hold, hold, firing!" A white sticky ball shoots out of the soldier's rifle, expanding out as it travels, wrapping the target in a white, sticky cocoon, making the target tumble to the floor and slide into a wall, where he sticks. The soldier walks up to the sticky mass, looming over it ominously.
A few minutes later, The Maul security guard walks up to Mr. and Mrs Incredible, and asks politely "Does this belong to you?" You can just barely make out Dash's face in the middle of the webbing.
The Parrs look at each other, then back at the guard holding the dangling Dash. "What did he do?" Mrs. Incredible asks, looking concerned.
"He was running in the halls. ma'am. Could hurt himself or someone else. Can't have that." The guard replies, dropping the webbing containing Dash to the floor with a wet squish/thump, pulling an ominous looking can out of his belt and aiming it at Dash.
"Wait, what are you-" Mr. Incredible starts to ask as the guard triggers the can, spraying a mist at Dash. The mist hits the webbing, and the webbing evaporates into a cloud, quickly cleared by the ventilation system, leaving a sheepish-looking Dash sitting on the floor, embarrassed but unharmed.
The guard turns and looks at the Incredible family, stern expression on his face, then cracks a huge grin.
"Folks, we here at The Maul are *very* aware of your backgrounds and your reputation, at least the public one, and we're honored and pleased that you've come here to shop and visit. Y'all have a good stay, and enjoy yourselves, alright?"
The Parr's look at each other, slightly taken aback at the turn of events. "Uh, sure!" Mr. Incredible says.
The guard nods at them, flashes one last smile, turns away, takes a step, turns back, and looks directly at Dash. "And obey the speed limit signs, son. They're there for *your* protection, and others. Understood?"
Dash looks up at the guard, looks down at the bits of sticky on his clothes, looks back up and says "Understood, Sir!"
The guard nods at Dash, looks back at the family, and says "You all have a good time, now. And you folks might want to take a look at the mall's local PUB, they've got a few things on the walls that might interest you. Have a good day now." He touches a finger to his hat brim, nods at them, then turns and walks away.
The Incredibles look at each other, then look at the guard's retreating back.
"Nice guy." Mr. Incredible says.
"Polite, too." Mrs Incredible replies.
Violet looks over at Dash. "You got tagged. By a mall rent-a-cop. *snerk*"
Dash looks at her, tilting his head slightly. "And you're supposed to be the smart one? You see his rifle?" Violet shakes her head. "It was an energy weapon. I know a blaster when I see one, and I've played enough Powers Unlimited on the HoloVision to know a Blaster Rifle / Power Armor - Enforcer when I see one. He was being *polite*."
He looks around till he sees a speed limit sign, sighs, and sticks his hands in his pockets. "Not messing with these guys again, might not be polite next time." He looks around again, sees the PUB the guard was talking about. "I'll meet you there." And starts walking away, human slowly.
Violet watches him walk away, goggle-eyed, then her eyes narrow, as she starts thinking, hard.
"Now that amuses me." Helen says.
"Whats that?" Bob replies.
"All the things we've been through, and it takes a mall security guard and a video game to make the point he's not *Invincible*, just Incredible." She says, with a laugh. She looks back towards the security Kiosk the guard walked into. "So lets go see what he was talking about, with that hint applied with a brick."
The family wanders off towards the PUB, chatting.
2cp. ;]
Sorry, couldn't resist.
2cp. ;]
Disney owns not only Toontown but also Pirates of the Caribbean. The former is an MMO for children, but the latter has plenty of adult players. I used to be one before I found CoH!
And they're involved with SWtOR now by virtue of Lucasarts, too. ;)
Not meaning to be a killjoy...
If NCSoftcore deliberately puts an absurd price on the CoH IP, then any company, Disney included, would be better advised to simply build their own, mainly because the CoH engine is out of date.
Had I been in Mr. Kim's shoes, I would have saved costs by folding CoH into one or two servers, given the Devs a fond farewell after I-24, and left the game to run for a decade or so. Then there would have been no hard feelings from anybody. That's cost-cutting. Everyone understands expenses.
But this business of terminating the game while hanging onto the IP, destroying any chance of anybody creating a CoH 2 just pisses everybody off, even folks with no stake in the game. It's so obviously selfish and cold-hearted. Now NCSoft's known as the douchebag of the MMO world.
CoH 2... oh, what could have been...!
Quote from: Colette on November 01, 2012, 12:03:15 AM
Had I been in Mr. Kim's shoes, I would have saved costs by folding CoH into one or two servers, given the Devs a fond farewell after I-24, and left the game to run for a decade or so.
Given the virtual nature of the "servers" (which are internally referred to as "shards" to cut down on the confusion), there wouldn't be any cost savings in consolidation. If anything the consolidation would cost extra money.
Was there ever an attempt to contact Disney for this? I think with Disney owning Marvel it'd be too easy for them to sweep CoH under the rug. There are lots of other publishers, Richard Garriott owns Portalarium which is sort of a new company. But now writing that out I see how that wouldn't work. NCSoft isn't likely to arrange anything with him after the lawsuit.
Quote from: Jordan_Lee on November 01, 2012, 09:37:55 PM
Was there ever an attempt to contact Disney for this? I think with Disney owning Marvel it'd be too easy for them to sweep CoH under the rug. There are lots of other publishers, Richard Garriott owns Portalarium which is sort of a new company. But now writing that out I see how that wouldn't work. NCSoft isn't likely to arrange anything with him after the lawsuit.
"Easy," yes, but they didn't "sweep the Incredibles under the rug? just because they bought Marvel.
What'd be awesome would be if CoH's world got made into a Marvel-published comic.
Just read this today, and thought it was relevant to the thread:
http://todayentertainment.today.com/_news/2012/11/01/14861162-george-lucas-donating-disney-sale-billions-to-charity
While a slim-to-nothing shot exists, there could be some long-term charity involved with saving CoH, if it could somehow be monetized with portions of player subscription fees going to charities all the time in a post-coh-is-saved world. But I have a feeling trying to contact him about the ordeal won't be easy. It'd be a nice little pet project for him though if he's interested in philanthropy and it worked out. Gaming for charity?
It would just require some convincing that his investment will make a turn-around, and that the proceeds are likely to pay itself off one day.
Quote
The spokesperson noted that this "announcement continues a commitment that Lucas made in 2010 to The Giving Pledge where he stated, "I am dedicating the majority of my wealth to improving education. It is the key to the survival of the human race. We have to plan for our collective future—and the first step begins with social, emotional, and intellectual tools we provide to our children. As humans, our greatest tool for survival is our ability to think and to adapt—as educators, storytellers, and communicators our responsibility is to continue to do so.'"
"...CoX will inevitably reach the end of its life some day."
Y'know, honestly I'm not so sure. End of it's economic vitality, certainly. But as technology grows less expensive, "server farms" may one day be just another chip we have installed in our tablets. Provided the CoH code is not locked in a vault, CoH could go on as a retro-game indefinitely.
Sadly, it appears NCSoftcore wants the game locked up in a vault forever.
Suddenly, this idea doesn't seem so insane, does it?
^.^
Damn you and your ability to pick things out of my mind before I actually think of them. :P
Oh it's bloody insane. We'd never have tried it if we hadn't had Rae with her ability to find contact information, Ammon, who has done business with some huge corporations, and Brian Clayton to oversee. And even so, it's still bloody insane. I can pitch a novel, but something like this? No clue where to start.
We all needed a day when we declared it done to recover.
On to you.
/em passes the torch to the next ones in the relay
Wouldn't this put ALL of our characters and their back-stories and everything about them into Notorious "hands" of Disney who aren't copyright-friendly at all, aren't they the arch-nemesis of all things "Public Domain" & all?
Or, rather all things that would become "Public Domain" = if not for their (effectively) paying to change the laws regarding such things??
Insanity is my specialty.
Quote from: BryanSnowden on November 26, 2012, 06:55:39 AM
Wouldn't this put ALL of our characters and their back-stories and everything about them into Notorious "hands" of Disney who aren't copyright-friendly at all, aren't they the arch-nemesis of all things "Public Domain" & all?
Or, rather all things that would become "Public Domain" = if not for their (effectively) paying to change the laws regarding such things??
No, because if that were the case, Disney would own every idea made by their employees, regardless of the contract. We own the ideas behind our characters, we always have. What is owned by the IP holder is that particular incarnation of that idea, not the idea itself. Let me ask you this, Who owns Thor, the Norse God of thunder? Marvel (as owned by Disney) doesn't own the concept itself, just that particular form of it.
Quote from: Mentalshock on November 26, 2012, 06:32:15 AM
Suddenly, this idea doesn't seem so insane, does it?
^.^
Are you from the future?!? ;)
Not sure what my input is worth, but having played Disney's Pirates of the Carribean Online, I can say that:
1) It is an MMO.
2) There are no updates for it.
3) Events still run.
4) There are still dedicated players.
5) The game is not going to be shut down.