Looks like whatever back-room manoeuvres that were happening, if at all, failed http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=297472
...that's an awfully big assumption there, friend. All this means is that NCSoft is committed to cessation of their own involvement in the City of Heroes franchise, which we all knew going in. The ideal here was never to get NCSoft to reverse the decision; we both know they never would.
This has no bearing on any negotiations that may or may not be taking place to save the IP. Whether City is saved or not, NCSoft would still be required to 'tie up' this loose end.
I'd say that particular post is primarily focused on the refund information that so many people were concerned about. Don't let it distract you. Sure it may look bad, but wait to see if or when Andy posts something to the effect of "As we finally say goodbye tomorrow, November 30th, let us not forget..."
Au contraire. You are talking apples and wingnuts here.
In fact, this is a win. In the past, all that NCSoft offered was "free game and game time on another of our games" rather than a real REFUND.
I think we can say they finally blinked.
That's the apples. The wingnuts is negotiations to purchase by Paragon Studios. NOTHING in this post says that those negotiations are over. In fact, as a PAID EMPLOYEE of NCSoft, Andy could not possibly reveal anything about those negotiations.
All this says is "neener neener NCSoft might have blinked, but we are not going to keep the game alive." So what? We don't WANT them to keep the game alive only to kill it down the road. We want someone else who loves this game to keep it alive, growing and vibrant.
This is also a psychological ploy on the part of NCSoft to discourage us from keeping up our pressure on them. They WANT us to be defeatist (and they obviously succeeded in your case). If anything, we need to put MORE pressure on them--to sell.
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on September 18, 2012, 10:20:46 PM
Au contraire. You are talking apples and wingnuts here.
In fact, this is a win. In the past, all that NCSoft offered was "free game and game time on another of our games" rather than a real REFUND.
I think we can say they finally blinked.
That's the apples. The wingnuts is negotiations to purchase by Paragon Studios. NOTHING in this post says that those negotiations are over. In fact, as a PAID EMPLOYEE of NCSoft, Andy could not possibly reveal anything about those negotiations.
All this says is "neener neener NCSoft might have blinked, but we are not going to keep the game alive." So what? We don't WANT them to keep the game alive only to kill it down the road. We want someone else who loves this game to keep it alive, growing and vibrant.
This is also a psychological ploy on the part of NCSoft to discourage us from keeping up our pressure on them. They WANT us to be defeatist (and they obviously succeeded in your case). If anything, we need to put MORE pressure on them--to sell.
As always, VV, you make my efforts at use of the written word and morale building look like the flailing efforts of a simpering child. Thank you for putting into better words what was knocking around in my head. :)
Now, let's not go that far. When I read that, I got that punched-in-the-face feeling in my gut too. Basically, my whole upper body hurt. But it's not over yet. We still have over two months before the game goes offline. And no one said that their negotiations have concluded with this announcement. Zwillinger said we were being heard, NCsoft even said they're listening (refer to Tony's update about contacting them directly). I am angry and depressed, but it's a knee jerk reaction to not hearing what I wanted to. We have time, we have power. Let's keep at it.
Looks like the final nail in the coffin is the last sentence.
"Thank you for your support and patience as we work to smoothly close this chapter with the sunset of the City of Heroes franchise."
Not just the servers, or the game under NCsoft's ownership, or this version of the game. The whole gosh darned thing.
Either way, I think we need confirmation from Zwill. And he need not give us any info that he ins't allowed to. All we need is something like, "Keep it up."
So we simply buy the franchise. It is a matter of putting together a formal company and convincing NCSoft that they can make some money as they pull out of the West rather than losing all sunk costs.
Quote from: Segev on September 18, 2012, 10:45:01 PM
So we simply buy the franchise. It is a matter of putting together a formal company and convincing NCSoft that they can make some money as they pull out of the West rather than losing all sunk costs.
Given some comments made by certain individuals, it is entirely possible that this is
already being done behind closed doors, under heavy NDA enforcement. So. >.>
Quote from: TimtheEnchanter on September 18, 2012, 10:40:23 PM
Looks like the final nail in the coffin is the last sentence.
"Thank you for your support and patience as we work to smoothly close this chapter with the sunset of the City of Heroes franchise."
Not just the servers, or the game under NCsoft's ownership, or this version of the game. The whole gosh darned thing.
Either way, I think we need confirmation from Zwill. And he need not give us any info that he ins't allowed to. All we need is something like, "Keep it up."
Oh for crying out loud.....
fran·chise/ˈfranCHīz/
Noun:
(1) An authorization granted by a government or company to an individual or group enabling them to carry out specified commercial activities. 2. the right or license granted by a company to an individual or group to market its products or services in a specific territory. You made the point that Andy sweated over this, probably with the NCSoft lawyers looking over his shoulder. By the legal definition of
franchise all this means is that NCSoft has NO intention of continuing the game. It says NOTHING about someone else picking up the game. When NCSoft lets go of the reins, that means they have given up their right or license to operate it, not that said right or license is dead.
But you just go right along there and lie down and give up. I am not going to stop you, but don't blame me if I use your body as a stepping stone.
Quote from: DrakeGrimm on September 18, 2012, 10:47:28 PM
Given some comments made by certain individuals, it is entirely possible that this is already being done behind closed doors, under heavy NDA enforcement. So. >.>
I just find it hard to believe that with how much Zwill has been maintaining contact with us, within the limitations of whatever rules are in place, that he'd word it that way.
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on September 18, 2012, 10:20:46 PMThey WANT us to be defeatist (and they obviously succeeded in your case).
You're certainly getting your money's worth out of that sentence.
Quote from: TimtheEnchanter on September 18, 2012, 10:50:46 PM
I just find it hard to believe that with how much Zwill has been maintaining contact with us, within the limitations of whatever rules are in place, that he'd word it that way.
He may have been given no choice. Lawyers can be a pain in the butt that way.
Ultimately, this changes nothing--we knew before that NCsoft wanted to terminate their involvement with the game. They're taking steps to do that in a customer-friendly way, like a responsible business should do. My personal goal was never to convince NCsoft to maintain the game, and certainly not to maintain the game indefinitely. My goal was to persuade them, one way or another, to make a cash grab of the IP by selling it to another publisher. Our CoH accounts with them would have to close before this could take place.
Keep it up, everyone!
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on September 18, 2012, 10:50:21 PM
Oh for crying out loud.....
But you just go right along there and lie down and give up. I am not going to stop you, but don't blame me if I use your body as a stepping stone.
Before you jump too fast at the opportunity to be domme, read the final line of my post again. :P
Interesting.
Seems like a tidy way to wrap up any financial obligations, which would be one step in setting up for a complete handover.
Quote from: TimtheEnchanter on September 18, 2012, 10:50:46 PM
I just find it hard to believe that with how much Zwill has been maintaining contact with us, within the limitations of whatever rules are in place, that he'd word it that way.
Tim, what part of NDA do you not understand? Having signed several, I can tell you it means you CANNOT discuss company business of ANY kind with ANYONE much less put anything about sensitive business negotiations out there for anyone to poke his nose into.
Nothing that I was talking about would be any violation of an NDA. If it were, then closed beta testers wouldn't even be allowed to say, "This game is so cool!"
I am grateful that NCsoft will be issuing no-strings refunds for unused time, and am especially pleased that they'll be re-enabling accounts as VIP through the end for those who were unable to resubscribe at the time of the announcement.
Quote from: TimtheEnchanter on September 18, 2012, 11:05:15 PM
Nothing that I was talking about would be any violation of an NDA. If it were, then closed beta testers wouldn't even be allowed to say, "This game is so cool!"
Technically, they aren't.
But, back to topic.
I for one, am glad to see this. It takes care of the 'bait & switch' issue.
IF (big IF) they were going to hand over the title, one thing they would legally have to do is do a clean break with their customers, if for no other reason, that they dont want to 'give' customers to the competition.
I think, no matter what, having NCSoft out of the picuture will be a good thing.
Even better would be if the Paragon staff can somehow come together and form a new entity on their own.
Optimists! The lot of you!
I am *so* glad you're around to keep me from being terribly unhappy with this announcement.
I'm pleased with the content of it, but afraid of what it might mean. And, as several have pointed out, it might mean nothing. Thank you for your clear-headedness.
Quote from: TimtheEnchanter on September 18, 2012, 11:05:15 PM
Nothing that I was talking about would be any violation of an NDA. If it were, then closed beta testers wouldn't even be allowed to say, "This game is so cool!"
Technically, closed beta testers aren't allowed to say that. I know. I've been in several of them. They just don't typically punish people that give positive reviews. Testers that give negative press while still under NDA tend to get the boot if they're caught.
On topic, I think this is a good sign. If nothing else NCSoft has done two things:
1.) Admitted they have customers that deserve to be treated with respect.
2.) Gone on the defensive.
I'd say keep up the pressure. Make more noise. Buy more dinners. Something.
What Amp said. I've done that too. In Andy's case, ANYTHING he says is vetted by the lawyers and ANYTHING he says is subject to much more intense scrutiny than anything a closed beta tester says. I've signed WETA NDA and NCSoft NDAs, both. They are about the same. YOU SAY NOTHING until the company says you can say something, or you find yourself in a law court, as well as (in Andy's case) booted from what is left of his JOB.
This is what we know for sure.
As of Friday, Brian Clayton told me he had hoped to have news this week but that negotiations were still going strong. As of a few minutes ago, there was no further word. I assume this means nothing has changed.
NCSoft has blinked. They are giving us our money back.
NCSoft has blinked. They have given us a dedicated email address to send our comments and concerns to.
NCSoft has (through Andy) announced that they are not interested in continuing to support the game and are committed to the Nov 30 shutdown date on the NCSoft side.
This is what we know, anything else is pure conjecture.
Point one: good. In business, no news is generally encouraging.
Point two: VERY good
Point three: VERY good, they are getting a bit shook up by our united front
Point four: Nov 30 shutdown. Well this sucks a little, since I was hoping they would agree to something longer for a smoother transition, should we get a buyer, but it's still doable with a little downtime, depending on whether or not anyone still has the code for the OLD launcher around Paragon, and whether or not the deal will include the original servers.
Quote from: GuyPerfect on September 18, 2012, 11:06:09 PM
I am grateful that NCsoft will be issuing no-strings refunds for unused time, and am especially pleased that they'll be re-enabling accounts as VIP through the end for those who were unable to resubscribe at the time of the announcement.
That's not the way I Re-read it. They're simply refunding time and letting you Stay VIP from the way some of us have read it. IE: I wasn't subbed up so no VIP for me.
I think the troops need an 'official' address from this group over on the CoH forums, and sooner rather than later. The knee-jerk reaction to this isn't going to be good. Even though TonyV has said numerous times, that the main objective has been a transfer of ownership rather than a reversal of NC's decision, I have little doubt that many of the players who got on board for this, were thinking of the latter through it all. Something needs to be stressed to everyone about that fact. Today's news is going to thin the herd some, and that damage needs to be minimized. The players have been looking to the TitanNetwork for leadership and if they don't get a message now, there's going to be a panic. They need to know the torches are still lit.
Quote from: TimtheEnchanter on September 18, 2012, 10:40:23 PM
Looks like the final nail in the coffin is the last sentence.
"Thank you for your support and patience as we work to smoothly close this chapter with the sunset of the City of Heroes franchise."
Now, see, when I read that, I was focused on this part:
"Thank you for your support and patience as we work to smoothly close
this chapter with the sunset of the City of Heroes franchise."
As opposed to this:
"Thank you for your support and patience as we work to smoothly close this sunset of the City of Heroes franchise."
Quote from: eabrace on September 18, 2012, 11:39:15 PM
Now, see, when I read that, I was focused on this part:
"Thank you for your support and patience as we work to smoothly close this chapter with the sunset of the City of Heroes franchise."
As opposed to this:
"Thank you for your support and patience as we work to smoothly close this sunset of the City of Heroes franchise."
Yes, that IS interesting...
Zwill's crafty. We should all read that three or four times and try to pick something new out of it each time to see if we can get to the center of the Tootsie Pop.
As a long time officer worker I do know one thing with such messages:
DO NOT READ TOO MUCH INTO THEM.
Zwill is working under some severe restraints of what he can and cannot do. That message was simply to clear up the barrage of messages from customer questions about money paid. NOTHING ELSE!
I will admit the wording is interesting. It did NOT cancel or have an end date for VIP customers. I have the feeling this was done to shut up those complaints. I think the issue of what happens to CoH is still very much in the air.
"Wut?"
(https://ulife.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/tootsie-pop-owl.jpg)
Ultimately... I think this is another small success.
It aint the war, but its another front we can say 'we got what we wanted'
Quote from: Paindancer on September 19, 2012, 12:06:06 AM
Ultimately... I think this is another small success.
It aint the war, but its another front we can say 'we got what we wanted'
Right. We've done as much as we can with our initial blitzkrieg. Now we begin our siege against the walls of NCsoft.
That's exactly it. Well said, eabrace.
We've committed to Lightning War with every bit of ferocity and efficiency as we can muster. Now it's time to switch gears while keeping up momentum and entering Siege Mode.
Sieges are won through a combination of precision strikes, patience, and heavy bombardment. Keep up the pressure, but pace yourselves. Keep strong, hold to your convictions, and remember that you are not alone. You have an entire city to back you. Stand proud. Stand tall.
Check out the Light A Fire actions. Yes, I KNOW it is tedious to make all those posts and emails. Remember, I make posts and emails as part of my living (fans...god love 'em) besides doing a load of slactivism (that means writing emails instead of going out and marching). Look at it as a reward to yourself. Remind yourself that every time you post, someone at NCSoft's PR firm goes a little crazier. And believe me they will. They are probably reading this right now and hate me. :-* This is their job, to ferret out every single mention of NCSoft and figure out which way they can spin it and there is NO good way to spin this in the English-speaking marketplace. This is a PR disaster, coming as it does directly on the announcement of a new game they intend to launch here. And we can use that....ooooooh how we can use that.
Quote from: eabrace on September 18, 2012, 11:39:15 PM
Now, see, when I read that, I was focused on this part:
"Thank you for your support and patience as we work to smoothly close this chapter with the sunset of the City of Heroes franchise."
As opposed to this:
"Thank you for your support and patience as we work to smoothly close this sunset of the City of Heroes franchise."
Indeed, that's the word I found most curious too. The word
chapter featured not just once, but three times in that announcement. While I do think it's a mistake to try and read too much information into any announcement, I couldn't help but notice that particular detail.
Countering that however is the statement "As the long history of City of Heroes draws to a close" implying a finality of City of Heroes, at least as a title or entity.
So that's a big "Hmm..." and a double head scratch really.
It may be wish fulfillment, or the desire to cling to hope, but I do find myself wondering if "chapter" was deliberate. After all, Zwill told us a little while ago he'd have an announcement for us, and I very much doubt he just sat down and rattled off that post without paying much attention to the wording of it.
If there's one thing I've learned about Zwill it's that he's a damn good community manager - that man knows how to listen, and how to communicate. But corporate NDAs mean he can't communicate as freely as he'd like, and that must be cutting him up inside because he loves the CoH community. He knows we're listening to a deafening silence and he can't say anything. So a part of me is thinking maybe...just maybe...this
IS communication, as best as he can manage it under the circumstances.
*shrug*
Of course I may be completely wrong, and NCSoft issued him an official statement that just happened to include the word chapter...but I like hope. So I will choose to regard this as hope. At this stage, hope is what we need, so...I choose hope :)
Did I confuse you Teege? Sorry.
Just remember that the decision to keep or close CoH is being made by high level management. People who have probably NEVER played the game and think a Controller is something their kid uses to play Wii. Such people make decisions based on reports and numbers only.
Drat! I promised myself I wouldn't preach!
Oh, no. My picture was in response to this:
Quote from: eabrace on September 18, 2012, 11:51:39 PM
Zwill's crafty. We should all read that three or four times and try to pick something new out of it each time to see if we can get to the center of the Tootsie Pop.
Don't mind me, I'm just odd.
Quote from: MishaFox on September 19, 2012, 12:20:59 AM
Did I confuse you Teege? Sorry.
Just remember that the decision to keep or close CoH is being made by high level management. People who have probably NEVER played the game and think a Controller is something their kid uses to play Wii. Such people make decisions based on reports and numbers only.
Drat! I promised myself I wouldn't preach!
And on the basis of the reports and numbers they decided they HAD to give us refunds instead of time-on-another game.
What does that tell you, that they are doing something they have never done before in the shutdowns of the other five games they closed?
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on September 19, 2012, 12:24:09 AM
... they are doing something they have never done before in the shutdowns of the other five games they closed
Precisely. We have them off balance. Now we have to keep them off balance.
Indeed! It means we ARE having an effect!
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on September 18, 2012, 11:21:27 PM
NCSoft has blinked. They have given us a dedicated email address to send our comments and concerns to.
Of all the discussions today,
this one should make us all sit up and take notice. I know that using the word "sunset" in relation to the end of a game, or anything else, really, is nothing new, but the fact that it's the exact way that we've used it
on this forum that ended up being the username they chose should get our attention.
I keep reading the title of this thread and thinking, "It didn't not work..."
One thought does come to mind. Things in CoH as we know them now WILL change. That much is certain. It's a matter of how.
Whatever happens I will NEVER give up fighting to save the game!
Blast. I'm preaching again!
Quote from: dwturducken on September 19, 2012, 12:28:16 AM
Of all the discussions today, this one should make us all sit up and take notice. I know that using the word "sunset" in relation to the end of a game, or anything else, really, is nothing new, but the fact that it's the exact way that we've used it on this forum that ended up being the username they chose should get our attention.
Oh, their PR firm is reading this forum. Believe it. And every time we post and get our spirits and enthusiasm back up, they have hysterics.
Every time we can get a negative mention of NCSoft's tactics posted anywhere else, they have MORE hysterics. The wider we diversify these posts, the more hysterics they will have.
Post on Parents-and-children forums: people think "Why would I invest money in a game when these morons will shut it down and leave him crying?"
Post on a Teens-With-Problems forum and teens will think "Why should I buy a game from THESE loser-dweebs when they'll pull it out from under me before I get a level 50?"
Post on a Consumer Complaint/Protection forum and people will think "THIS is what is wrong with letting companies outside the US produce and distribute products FOR the US! RAWR! WRITE MY CONGRESSMAN!"
And NCSoft's PR firm sends them an increasingly hysterical report.
So the idea is to go all-out with the psychological warfare and propaganda? :P
Quote from: dwturducken on September 19, 2012, 12:28:16 AM
Of all the discussions today, this one should make us all sit up and take notice. I know that using the word "sunset" in relation to the end of a game, or anything else, really, is nothing new, but the fact that it's the exact way that we've used it on this forum that ended up being the username they chose should get our attention.
Zwillinger most likely wrote the announcement (If he wasn't still being paid by NCSoft, I'm sure he wouldn't be here right now). I wouldn't bust out the tinfoil hats just yet.
I'm not sure why their PR firm should be upset if fans get their spirits up. There is nothing harmful to NCSoft about trying to buy the property they're planning to ditch due to their recentering on the East from them. We need, above all else, to get that across to them. To be their ally in this, not their enemy, so we can reach a mutually agreeable solution.
Because if we do this adversarially, they're going to just want to wash their hands of it all the sooner. And they can, because it is theirs.
Quote from: Terwyn on September 19, 2012, 12:40:31 AM
So the idea is to go all-out with the psychological warfare and propaganda? :P
HELLO! I AM the Commissar of the Coallition of Communist Crusaders for the Proletariat on Pinnacle!
Yes, I know. We are both denizens of that server. :P
Quote from: Terwyn on September 19, 2012, 12:40:31 AM
So the idea is to go all-out with the psychological warfare and propaganda? :P
In the end yes, because we want change, Change is messy always ask the French.
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on September 18, 2012, 11:21:27 PM
As of Friday, Brian Clayton told me he had hoped to have news this week but that negotiations were still going strong. As of a few minutes ago, there was no further word. I assume this means nothing has changed.
Thanks for the update on this Misty (or do you prefer Vicky here?). These little asides help ease a lot of the tension people are experiencing because they feel "shut out" of the information loop.
It's only Tuesday. And we're only in week 3 of a 13 week process (yeah, there's 13 weeks between these three months). Even if the negotiations take another couple weeks, there's still LOTS of time left.
And hey! NCSoft is giving you money to spend on CoH once we rescue it! How'bout DEM apples?
Quote from: Segev on September 19, 2012, 12:43:30 AM
I'm not sure why their PR firm should be upset if fans get their spirits up. There is nothing harmful to NCSoft about trying to buy the property they're planning to ditch due to their recentering on the East from them. We need, above all else, to get that across to them. To be their ally in this, not their enemy, so we can reach a mutually agreeable solution.
Because if we do this adversarially, they're going to just want to wash their hands of it all the sooner. And they can, because it is theirs.
It is a PR firm's job to get hysterical about anything that is said about their company that is not good and/or not marching in line with the company statements.
That said, NCSoft is well aware that they can make all of this go away if they sit down and negotiate nicely and let someone else buy/maintain CoH.
They assumed we would go away when they said "End of game", take their credit-on-another-game and go away quietly.
We did not.
They assumed we would go away when a week had passed. We made more noise.
They assumed we would go away when two weeks had passed. We are still making noise.
They assume we will go away if they give us real money back. Some people want to do that. But this is a game of Stare Down and they just blinked.
We need to start showing them that we are just more than a bunch of game-dweebs who don't know how to do anything but whine.
I shall attempt to explore my contacts in the Marketing and PR fields. Failing that, I am intending to expand my explorations through my school - after all, there aren't many schools where both Dream Works *and* Pixar regularly send staff to visit the campus. You never know until you ask. ^_^
We have their notice, if not their attention. Why not start a little propaganda. I've reached out to the gaming and computer clubs at school. My older son has been asked to mention it to his gaming club at his school. Hearts and minds, folks. Hearts and minds.
C'mon guys! Whether you agree with the ins and outs of Miss Lackey's posts, she's got the basic idea absolutely correct. NCSOFT IS PAYING ATTENTION. They feel the pressure and they're reacting accordingly. Do not let petty arguments over who wrote the announcement or what exactly it means consume our effort. KEEP GOING.
"Screw calm, make noise and #SaveCoH"
VV you are my HERO! Your incite regarding this mess gives me new hope. I will resume my letter writing campaign in the morning with the hope that NCsoft will see the light and sell the franchise to a more worthy entity. Thank you, VV.
Good news.
NCSoft is apparently going to do something unexpectedly ethical. A refund of paid game time starting at Sept 1, when the service was fundamentally changed. Hope the complaints regarding time cards and points can be resolved so everybody gets a fair deal. Really should have been announced alongside the shutdown plan back in August, but nobody's perfect.
Also: We will soon have more money.
NCSoft is letting go. Will they release the IP, in part or completely? Who can say... But this had to happen first. It's a positive step - now we can take another.
Zwill's announcement made me feel hopeful...
Tony's announcement about the newly created email address made me feel hopeful...
The lore document...well blah...I asked one lore question in 8 years and it didn't make the list of answers: go figure LOL!
Work has been keeping me so busy that I haven't really been able to log in....but can't wait for this weekend! :)
Quote from: Terwyn on September 19, 2012, 12:40:31 AM
So the idea is to go all-out with the psychological warfare and propaganda? :P
What do you think we've BEEN doing? Playing hopscotch? :P
(And hi all! Recent immigrant from the old forums! Just registered today!)
And VV? You are awesome. You are absolutely right! They BLINKED.
I had doubts that was even possible. But it happened! Thanks for pointing that out!
And could you post these exact same thoughts on the old forums? Some people there REALLY NEED to hear you say it like you did here! I suggest this thread here first:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=297475 (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=297475)
and this possibly this one: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=297431 (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=297431)
Yes, absolutely NCSoft PR reads here. given.
This puts us at a slight disadvantage, as our cards are generally on the table. Our emotions are as well, and its a delicate balance between an internal show of support and coming off as a bit of a ungracious winner.
IF I had NCSoft's eye right now
Thank You, for addressing the player base concern regarding refunds. Many feel you did the right thing by offering refunds opposed to equivalent game time. We feel you listened to us, and its appreciated.
Thank you for giving us a way for the players to talk to you. Again, we feel we are being heard. We would also welcome the chance to listen to you as well.
City of Heroes is important to us, as you are seeing. It is community to many of us. Families play together on it. The Superhero is very dear to the American's heart. We simply do not want something dear to us to go away, because a company on another shore couldn't understand it, or us.
We want you to set it free, as we do not feel you have been a trustworthy caretaker of our community. We hope you can find a solution that benefits NCSoft and the COH players, ideally allowing it to be sold for a fair price to a party who would value our community and continue to develop the game, or if that fails release the game code. We understand, we are a small voice to you, but sometimes the smallest voice is heard the clearest. We would like to be able to say 'In the end, NCSoft decided to respect our community'.
Quote from: Paindancer on September 19, 2012, 02:23:49 AM
Yes, absolutely NCSoft PR reads here. given.
This puts us at a slight disadvantage, as our cards are generally on the table. Our emotions are as well, and its a delicate balance between an internal show of support and coming off as a bit of a ungracious winner.
IF I had NCSoft's eye right now
Thank You, for addressing the player base concern regarding refunds. Many feel you did the right thing by offering refunds opposed to equivalent game time. We feel you listened to us, and its appreciated.
Thank you for giving us a way for the players to talk to you. Again, we feel we are being heard. We would also welcome the chance to listen to you as well.
City of Heroes is important to us, as you are seeing. It is community to many of us. Families play together on it. The Superhero is very dear to the American's heart. We simply do not want something dear to us to go away, because a company on another shore couldn't understand it, or us.
We want you to set it free, as we do not feel you have been a trustworthy caretaker of our community. We hope you can find a solution that benefits NCSoft and the COH players, ideally allowing it to be sold for a fair price to a party who would value our community and continue to develop the game, or if that fails release the game code. We understand, we are a small voice to you, but sometimes the smallest voice is heard the clearest. We would like to be able to say 'In the end, NCSoft decided to respect our community'.
/Signed
Hawthorne Grimm. Kings Row/St. Martial. City of Heroes, Virtue Server.
Agreed! The PR dept and the people still left running CoH are in a tough spot.
Just the people running CoH.
PR signed on to make crap look like gold.
Quote from: Vulpy on September 18, 2012, 10:53:59 PM
Ultimately, this changes nothing--we knew before that NCsoft wanted to terminate their involvement with the game. They're taking steps to do that in a customer-friendly way, like a responsible business should do. My personal goal was never to convince NCsoft to maintain the game, and certainly not to maintain the game indefinitely. My goal was to persuade them, one way or another, to make a cash grab of the IP by selling it to another publisher. Our CoH accounts with them would have to close before this could take place.
Keep it up, everyone!
The key thing is to keep it up
well beyond the closure of the servers. Just because the servers go down doesn't mean the game has to, and things like selling games or IPs can take a while.
I think we need to make sure that the same news outlets and gaming sites that have covered things so far... continue to cover our story.
Anyone and everyone that has been in touch with anyone that has covered us, should absolutely keep them updated. It will probably soon be time for us to make another show of our community to display that we were not one unity rally and done (Oh, and, of course, the dinner on us was well noticed as well... what I love most about this movement... it is sincere... that's generally why I believe we cannot fail ).
We'll see what happens Thursday for Positron's Ally. No immediate rush, but yeah, despite the fact that we're certainly not aiming to just be a publicity show, we're likely going to have to supply some flash now and hen to keep the momentum going.
I just hope that the defeatists aren't really going to disappear on us in too great of numbers.
Anyway, just rambling... I'm so very happy to be amongst the many of you, fighting together.
:)
Quote from: Felderburg on September 19, 2012, 03:44:46 AM
The key thing is to keep it up well beyond the closure of the servers. Just because the servers go down doesn't mean the game has to, and things like selling games or IPs can take a while.
Agreed. However, if it drags on to the point that the servers actually go down, I have every intention of giving NCsoft a black eye on that count.
Quote from: Electric-Knight on September 19, 2012, 04:09:27 AM
I think we need to make sure that the same news outlets and gaming sites that have covered things so far... continue to cover our story.
Anyone and everyone that has been in touch with anyone that has covered us, should absolutely keep them updated. It will probably soon be time for us to make another show of our community to display that we were not one unity rally and done (Oh, and, of course, the dinner on us was well noticed as well... what I love most about this movement... it is sincere... that's generally why I believe we cannot fail ).
We'll see what happens Thursday for Positron's Ally. No immediate rush, but yeah, despite the fact that we're certainly not aiming to just be a publicity show, we're likely going to have to supply some flash now and hen to keep the momentum going.
I just hope that the defeatists aren't really going to disappear on us in too great of numbers.
Anyway, just rambling... I'm so very happy to be amongst the many of you, fighting together.
:)
I've now attended two "parades" or "marches". They are kind of inspiring and fun in and of themselves. I am wondering if it would be possible to coordinate a rolling "march" through all 15 servers? Also thinking it might be possible to film such an event with demorecord, and then produce a composite march of all the heroes who were captured with the demorecords walking along a street. Even if that's not technically feasible, a series of views of a long line of heroes marching with the server names as a caption would be fairly visually impressive.
Out of game, I think VV's suggestions for "lighting a fire" under NCsoft have a lot of merit. Well worth checking out her threads.
Refunds is the last thing they needed.
I would love for a miracle to save CoH and I would come back. If I do have to find a new MMO home it will not be part of NCSoft or Nexon. Does that suck for Guild Wars 2 and any other NCSoft game? Yep, but I have to vote with my wallet.
I would love to see a 5,000 hero march; lol and maybe this time be able to find my toon amongs the 4,999 other players :)
(maybe I should make him taller than 4 feet?? :P)
Quote from: The_Hunter_JLJ on September 19, 2012, 04:45:08 AM
I've now attended two "parades" or "marches". They are kind of inspiring and fun in and of themselves. I am wondering if it would be possible to coordinate a rolling "march" through all 15 servers? Also thinking it might be possible to film such an event with demorecord, and then produce a composite march of all the heroes who were captured with the demorecords walking along a street. Even if that's not technically feasible, a series of views of a long line of heroes marching with the server names as a caption would be fairly visually impressive.
Out of game, I think VV's suggestions for "lighting a fire" under NCsoft have a lot of merit. Well worth checking out her threads.
Come on nay-sayers! Who said its over?
I hear no obese female singing!!
Quote from: Burnt Toast on September 19, 2012, 05:38:25 AM
I would love to see a 5,000 hero march; lol and maybe this time be able to find my toon amongs the 4,999 other players :)
(maybe I should make him taller than 4 feet?? :P)
It would be possible, and I can already see how a modified version of Leandro's script for decorating a landscape with a mass of heroes would allow it to work. You could even get a much more uniform parade procession using such a script than you could possibly accomplish with a live recording.
Between this and the Lore AMA - I'd say we'd had some good news.
This post focuses on the refund information people were asking for. As others have said they're offering genuine cash-back refunds, even for game time cards which is a lot more than they have ever offered in the past and also a lot more costly to them as a company. I'd like to think this as a Plan B - if the game can't be saved we've gained ground here.
The Lore AMA was incredibly vague. The vague nature of it seems to suggest they weren't letting the cat out of the bag as we all had thought they would. This implies there is still a chance. The fact they said they can't disclose more on some of it also seems to imply that. After all, what good would saving the game be if they let the cats out of the bags?
i agree with everyone that these posts by zwil and posi were not bad
getting refunds is something that would have prolly had to happen regardless if ncsoft closed the game or sold it
and in posi's post about the lore he even says that if the game does get saved then they have every right to completely change what they were talking about anyway to still keep us hanging lol
all in all i agree that this was a win for us
I think people are missing the "sunset of the City of Heroes franchise. " part.
Quote from: uninventive on September 19, 2012, 12:42:43 AM
Zwillinger most likely wrote the announcement (If he wasn't still being paid by NCSoft, I'm sure he wouldn't be here right now). I wouldn't bust out the tinfoil hats just yet.
Uhh.... Not really. Andy probobly wrote the first draft. Then legal and the NC overseers had a look at it and worked it over.
For example, note that EVERY reference is to NC Soft. not Paragon Studios. I'd be that was one of the changes that got rammed down his throat, that his original draft used Paragon Studios (which would have been believable to me) and he was forced to change it to NC Soft. (which I dont believe). And, as I use the same handle pretty much everywhere... some of you have probobly heard me rant about what I thought of their phraseology.
Gods, Poor Andy. I dont think I could soldier on as valiantly as he has in the unenviable position he's in; stuck between the rocks of management goons, the shoals of NDA's, and the hard place of
very unhapppy players.
That he's been able to manage without loosing it more than that one tear two weeks ago... Dammit, we should nominate him for Sainthood. But he's not dead... yet. IIRC, isn't dieing like a big qualifier for that position?
Either way, he should darn well be held up as an example of PROPER community manager to other companies. especially the way he has managed to soldier on during these difficult times.
Okay, they;ve blinked. so, what next?
*hands out some purples.*
Didn't we sort of know this was coming? I think I posted in 'news' back along that they were 'working on something for the VIP and premium players and they'd announce it when they could'. I'm guessing this was probably it. I know a lot of people saw it and got the second suckerpunch of the month, but I don't think this is anything particularly new. We were just hoping for an announcement that said they'd changed their minds, not 'still ploughing ahead'.
What we have to remember is that NC Soft, like us, are most likely following a number of plans. We have Plan 'A', which is 'save' but also plans B through to Z on what we'll do if Plan A falls over. And we're just a bunch of rabid gamers. NC Soft - big ol' multinational business corporation - have their plan 'A', which is 'PULL EVERYTHING', but I'd imagine they have a bunch of other plans (probably ones that involve not being sued, or something) they have to have on the back burner, too.
Although, you know. I like our Plan A much better than theirs.
Quote from: rae on September 19, 2012, 07:56:55 AM
*hands out some purples.*
Although, you know. I like our Plan A much better than theirs.
I.... dont think so. Even if they had Zwill fire up the webcam and do a Community chat that said
"ROFL, JUST KIDDING YOU WINZ TEH INTERWEBZ" tomorrow enough people have been shocked, etc that it would never be the same. We'd all be playing looking over our shoulders wondering if tomorrow was the day they'd try again.
We're much better off with someone other than NC Soft holding the money whip, I think. And to be blunt, even though I never say this because it seems to compell the universe to prove me wrong: "I dont think ANYONE could be worse"
Quote from: StarRanger4 on September 19, 2012, 08:07:36 AM
We're much better off with someone other than NC Soft holding the money whip, I think. And to be blunt, even though I never say this because it seems to compell the universe to prove me wrong: "I dont think ANYONE could be worse"
Oh my, yes. Couldn't agree more. After this, I'd trust NC Soft about as far as I could throw them.
There's not much point in my threatening to boycott them, because..they don't have anything in their catalog that interests me, but.. even if they did launch something I was vaguely interested in, I'd see that logo and be all '...ooh. Uh. Um. No, actually.'
My thoughts too.
I was interested vaguely in trying out GW2 - mostly at the behest of friends who were in the Beta and raving about it. And I took a peek at the info and was pretty impressed, even though fantasy MMOs generally aren't my thing. But I was willing to give it a try as soon as I could scrape together the $60+ for purchase.
And then BLACK FRIDAY hit.
No. Just no. NCSoft will never get my money again. I don't care how shiny it is. How good it looks or plays. NO.
I wish the best to Arenanet and acknowledge that they have a good game, well thought out. I don't begrudge my friends from COH who are playing now because they bought it before Black Friday on digital pre-order.
But I'm not joining them now.
I truly hope arenanet has some kind of escape plan from NCSoft. IF they became independent or were bought by another company I'd change my stance immediately. But not now. Not while giving them money also gives NCsoft money. Anyway. Had this rant before and that's all I can say about it.
QuoteWe're much better off with someone other than NC Soft holding the money whip, I think. And to be blunt, even though I never say this because it seems to compell the universe to prove me wrong: "I dont think ANYONE could be worse"
Even EA?
Dr. Frankenstein: "This is a FILTHY JOB!"
Igor: "Eh... Could be worse!"
Frankenstein: "How?"
Igor: "Could be raining!"
(THUNDERCRACK, Lightning fills the sky as sudden downpour drenches them)
Frankenstein: *Gives Igor a DEATH GLARE*
:D
Quote from: Atlantea on September 19, 2012, 08:29:07 AM
No. Just no. NCSoft will never get my money again. I don't care how shiny it is. How good it looks or plays. NO.
How could you trust them? I feel like I've been in an eight-year relationship with someone and came home to find out that they've moved out and taken all their stuff with them.
It'd be like them coming back and going 'babe, I made a mistake, I want you back!'
The trust would be all gone.
I'm sorry, NC Soft. It's not me, it's you. We need to make a clean break.
Quote from: TimtheEnchanter on September 19, 2012, 06:02:16 AM
It would be possible, and I can already see how a modified version of Leandro's script for decorating a landscape with a mass of heroes would allow it to work. You could even get a much more uniform parade procession using such a script than you could possibly accomplish with a live recording.
Oh, come now. Leandro will take one look at that, and pull an all-nighter to randomize the movement speeds and directions and make it look more natural. (grin) But, yeah, I was thinking that you could simply paint the street and then assign everyone a walk command in the same direction Wouldn't be surprised at all if Leandro's already thought of something like this.
Hm. While I could not participate in a parade (I doubt Segev is still even an active character on whatever server I was on), if something as grand as a multi-server parade is recorded, it would be cool to have some official announcers commenting on it, Macy's Thanksgiving style, in the same manner that StarCraft game announcers comment on games.
Quote from: Atlantea on September 19, 2012, 08:29:07 AM
Even EA?
blutnly, even after reading all the kurfluffle about Mass Effect 3 on our 'home forum' I still dont see how EA could be worse than what NC soft is doing.
But also yes, that scene is EXACTLY the sort of thing why I dont.
I didn't find the information about refunds being offered disheartening at all. We knew NCSoft was planning on shutting the game down, after all. This shouldn't come as a surprise. And this means that people are getting compensated for time they won't get to use, so that's good.
Anyway, CoH or its successor ought to shake the dust of NCSoft off its boots, to make the current mess less likely to happen again.
The pressure needs to be kept up on NCSoft via all available channels - unless they and Paragon Studios have spent the past 2 weeks sitting across a tanle from each other just saying "sell it", "no", sell it", "no", then there's been some kind of movement.
Quote from: Golden Girl on September 19, 2012, 08:04:51 PMunless they and Paragon Studios have spent the past 2 weeks sitting across a tanle from each other just saying "sell it", "no", sell it", "no"
That scenario seems like it needs to be worked in as a running gag somewhere.
Of course, we all know the easiest way to settle that is for Paragon Studios to suddenly switch to "no" and let NCsoft reply with "sell it". "Well, OK, if you say so!"
(I learned everything I need to know about negotiation from Bugs Bunny.)
Quote from: eabrace on September 19, 2012, 08:09:03 PM
Of course, we all know the easiest way to settle that is for Paragon Studios to suddenly switch to "no" and let NCsoft reply with "sell it". "Well, OK, if you say so!"
(I learned everything I need to know about negotiation from Bugs Bunny.)
Would that be legally binding, as well as awesome?
Quote from: rae on September 19, 2012, 08:11:43 PM
Would that be legally binding, as well as awesome?
Yes, the law firm of D. Duck and E. Fudd would be our counsel.
Quote from: Soundtrack on September 19, 2012, 08:25:54 PM
Yes, the law firm of D. Duck and E. Fudd would be our counsel.
As long as it's not B. Bunny himself. He is on record stating he never studied law.
Quote from: rae on September 19, 2012, 08:11:43 PM
Would that be legally binding, as well as awesome?
It would probably be legally binding within the borders of Toontown. I guess we know where the new offices will be located.
What a maroon. Hee hee hee.
All the developers posted her "thank-you-messages", Positron posted all the story lines they was planing and the message today also said to me; "That's it". Positron woudn't show all the cards he got in his hands when there is really any hope that the games goes on. Of course there is still hope, but well... it's hard to keep the head up right now...
Quote from: Technerdoc on September 19, 2012, 09:05:37 PM
All the developers posted her "thank-you-messages", Positron posted all the story lines they was planing and the message today also said to me; "That's it". Positron woudn't show all the cards he got in his hands when there is really any hope that the games goes on. Of course there is still hope, but well... it's hard to keep the head up right now...
/em SMACKS YOU WITH A ROLLED-UP NEWSPAPER
Did it ever occur to you ONCE that Matt was doing this as a teaser-reel?
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on September 19, 2012, 09:14:27 PM
/em SMACKS YOU WITH A ROLLED-UP NEWSPAPER
Did it ever occur to you ONCE that Matt was doing this as a teaser-reel?
That. But with less newspaper smacking. I'll leave that to VV. ;)
We can only hope!
The reality of the situation is that whether or not they are able to wrest the IP away from NCsoft, people have bills to pay and can't wait to start looking for jobs. There's no telling right now how long the game might or might not be down during a transition to new owners, and the longer it takes to make that transition, the more developers we'll end up losing.
We still might be able to retain some of the developers - even ones who have already said their goodbyes - but better that they say their goodbyes now while they still can rather than just fading away without being able to say anything once its too late.
Quote from: eabrace on September 19, 2012, 09:22:38 PM
The reality of the situation is that whether or not they are able to wrest the IP away from NCsoft, people have bills to pay and can't wait to start looking for jobs. There's no telling right now how long the game might or might not be down during a transition to new owners, and the longer it takes to make that transition, the more developers we'll end up losing.
We still might be able to retain some of the developers - even ones who have already said their goodbyes - but better that they say their goodbyes now while they still can rather than just fading away without being able to say anything once its too late.
The reality of the situation, is that nothing will ever be 'as it was.' Things will change. Some of those changes will be for the better, some of them will not. We will weather the storm and carry on. After all...we are heroes. This is what we do. :)
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on September 19, 2012, 09:14:27 PM
/em SMACKS YOU WITH A ROLLED-UP NEWSPAPER
Did it ever occur to you ONCE that Matt was doing this as a teaser-reel?
I think that right now there is nothing in the line of sight for the Paragon Studios to keep the game running. No chance that they give us this teaser when there is anything going right now with other publishers and "We cannot reiterate how tough it was to make the final decision to close this wonderful chapter in our history..." didn't sounds for me that they still have any plans right now so far. Maybe we will see the big surprise and Positron also said, that this story parts aren't final at all, but this must a really a miracle.
Quote from: Technerdoc on September 19, 2012, 09:31:12 PM
I think that right now there is nothing in the line of sight for the Paragon Studios to keep the game running. No chance that they give us this teaser when there is anything going right now with other publishers and "We cannot reiterate how tough it was to make the final decision to close this wonderful chapter in our history..." didn't sounds for me that they still have any plans right now so far. Maybe we will see the big surprise and Positron also said, that this story parts aren't final at all, but this must a really a miracle.
Fine. You go lie down and give up. Pardon me if I use your prone, defeatist body as a stepping stone to the next level.
Honestly, we don't need dead weight or defeatist crap here. Move along.
...I see more people have not been reading my thread. *scowl*
You tell 'em, VV. Not even close to a hopeless situation yet. Not sure we even need a miracle. Not that miracles are impossible. All it takes is tons of work.
So, the question you gotta ask yourself, folks. What are you willing to do to see City of Heroes live on? Figure that out, and get busy. Or go from here in peace, our brother and sister heroes who have fallen in the fight. As VV says, we're going to keep in the fight, so don't be too upset if we step over you.
Quote from: The_Hunter_JLJ on September 19, 2012, 09:41:45 PM
You tell 'em, VV. Not even close to a hopeless situation yet. Not sure we even need a miracle. Not that miracles are impossible. All it takes is tons of work.
So, the question you gotta ask yourself, folks. What are you willing to do to see City of Heroes live on? Figure that out, and get busy. Or go from here in peace, our brother and sister heroes who have fallen in the fight. As VV says, we're going to keep in the fight, so don't be too upset if we step over you.
What would I do?
Brb streaking with fireworks.
I've sent in a letter to both the US and Korean company. The US in English and Korean one in, respectively, korean. Luckily for me I used to enjoy Korean grindfests and learned Korean over the years to play them in case they were never to be released here.
Quote from: The_Hunter_JLJ on September 19, 2012, 09:41:45 PM
As VV says, we're going to keep in the fight, so don't be too upset if we step over you.
I'm channeling my redsiders and stepping ON them. Easier on the feet.
Honestly, about the only two ways this truly fails, Technerdoc, is if NCSoft takes a nigh-villainous hardline stance of "nope, we want it ended, and darn the costs!" or if Paragon Studios, all the money-people they can get in touch with, and we the fans all fail to, combined, come up with an attractive enough offer to make NCSoft's collective eyes turn to dollar signs (or whatever currency S. Korea uses) and hand over the property.
There is good business reason for them to work with Paragon Studios. We can't know what their hang-ups are, but I'm sure some would seem valid and others would seem silly to us, as semi-outside observers. That's what negotiation is about, though. We need to be there, ready to say "we are here to help" if those already in negotiation need it.
I honestly do want to be more involved in the process, personally, because I sense opportunity here, but I recognize that I know little enough about it to do more than prod for access and offer what service and connections I learn are needed through such prodding. Other than that, I, like anybody else interested in helping, can just make myself available and be useful when I know how.
I have had multiple vip accounts on ap33 on virtue even tho my server is justice i have been playing the game since beta and never even thought it would end and am still holding out but also as far as the links to washington cali and texas you may want to consider doing what i have been doing on a daily basis i will cross post this on the other thread as well
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
and dont be afraid to ask for a tweet either
Quote from: Segev on September 19, 2012, 09:47:25 PM
Honestly, about the only two ways this truly fails, Technerdoc, is if NCSoft takes a nigh-villainous hardline stance of "nope, we want it ended, and darn the costs!" or if Paragon Studios, all the money-people they can get in touch with, and we the fans all fail to, combined, come up with an attractive enough offer to make NCSoft's collective eyes turn to dollar signs (or whatever currency S. Korea uses) and hand over the property.
If (keyword: If) we fail, it'll be the former behind closed doors but the latter to the public.
Failure is not an option. Go big, or go home. Insert determined, grim, and up-lifting quote here.
It will only be NCSoft being stubborn behind closed doors if we don't have the ability to fuel the negotiators for "our side" and make clear to them we can do it.
So we have to be supportive, we have to stay as informed as possible, and we have to keep active to show we can and will back them up exactly as much as they need (without tipping a hand that makes it look like more, because we don't want them to lose a negotiating tactic that overplaying our hand might cost them).
But definitely, stay positive, stay encouraged, and stay supportive. Of both sides. Because NCSoft is not the enemy; they're just neutral and trying to decide if allying with us in this - by selling the property - or washing their hands of it - by closing it down and taking it with them - is in their better interest. It is our job to find as many ways to help Paragon Studios or whatever other negotiator is at the table on "our side" show NCSoft that being our allies in this is in their best interests.
We will never know what was going on there that they close this game so suddenly. This can be very hard when there was any dispute between NC-Soft and the Paragon Studios, you can never know. I think about it many times and it didn't make any sense at all. A lot of other and older boring online games are still running, so this can't be that this game didn't made enough profit that absoluty no one is intressted in it. Maybe NC-Soft want to keep the francise, but why? Just that no one else have it? Worked fine for Electronic Arts with Wing Commander and Dungeon Keeper for example, we will never see a game again, but they will never sell it too...
Oh well, same questions and we will never get an answer...
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on September 19, 2012, 09:33:12 PM
Fine. You go lie down and give up. Pardon me if I use your prone, defeatist body as a stepping stone to the next level.
Honestly, we don't need dead weight or defeatist crap here. Move along.
Wow....just wow.
I have been a lurker and have always considered this place and the people behind it to be positive and encouraging and just plain nice.
I have to say some of these responses and threads are not at all reflective of Tony V and how he talks and is so encouraging and gracious. It is unfortunate not all of us can try and save COH and still act like heroes.
What are we saving if it's okay to leave the bodies of fallen heroes on the ground? What are we saving if we cannot be kind to each other and be the community we keep telling everyone we are?
Anyone of my fellow heroes that falls down and cannot get back up for ANY reason, I will pick them up.
There is a difference between falling down...
And choosing to lie down and give up.
Quote from: Icy Pop on September 19, 2012, 11:21:56 PM
Wow....just wow.
I have been a lurker and have always considered this place and the people behind it to be positive and encouraging and just plain nice.
I have to say some of these responses and threads are not at all reflective of Tony V and how he talks and is so encouraging and gracious. It is unfortunate not all of us can try and save COH and still act like heroes.
What are we saving if it's okay to leave the bodies of fallen heroes on the ground? What are we saving if we cannot be kind to each other and be the community we keep telling everyone we are?
Anyone of my fellow heroes that falls down and cannot get back up for ANY reason, I will pick them up.
Quote from: Segev on September 19, 2012, 09:47:25 PM
to make NCSoft's collective eyes turn to dollar signs (or whatever currency S. Korea uses) and hand over the property.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korean_won Won-signs: ₩______₩
Quote from: Victoria Victrix on September 19, 2012, 09:33:12 PM
Fine. You go lie down and give up. Pardon me if I use your prone, defeatist body as a stepping stone to the next level.
Honestly, we don't need dead weight or defeatist crap here. Move along.
No no no! You use bodies to fire off
Vengeance and buff your whole team to greater heights of awesome, or
Fallout and corpse bomb the target.
Your defeatist body makes the team stronger! GO TEAM SAVECOH!
;D
Quote from: Icy Pop on September 19, 2012, 11:21:56 PM
Wow....just wow.
I have been a lurker and have always considered this place and the people behind it to be positive and encouraging and just plain nice.
I have to say some of these responses and threads are not at all reflective of Tony V and how he talks and is so encouraging and gracious. It is unfortunate not all of us can try and save COH and still act like heroes.
What are we saving if it's okay to leave the bodies of fallen heroes on the ground? What are we saving if we cannot be kind to each other and be the community we keep telling everyone we are?
Anyone of my fellow heroes that falls down and cannot get back up for ANY reason, I will pick them up.
Well said, Icy Pop.
And Technerdoc, may I just commend you for keeping the high road even though you're being berated.
Quote from: Burnt Toast on September 19, 2012, 11:35:06 PM
There is a difference between falling down...
And choosing to lie down and give up.
True, but I have no qualms or judgement against people who have simply run out of steam. Furthermore, respect and kindness should always be the rule.
Guys, I'm going to lock this thread. For one thing, it's descending into places we don't want to go. For another, I made it clear in the very first post (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,4882.0.html) I put in this forum, "The posts in this forum will be dedicated to the purpose of saving Paragon City." I don't mind some discussion around news and information, but "so it didn't work" isn't conducive to our goal here. I'm not mad at the OP or anything, but still, let's focus on how we're going to save the game, not mope about how impossible it is.