It's only been since ParagonChat came around that the itch has driven me to get back into hero work. The itch is back and it's bad... so what scratches the itch? I definitely don't know much about the alternatives (even CoT which I backed, but haven't paid enough attention to yet).
Valiance online has the cleanest website by far, but what about the rest. For people who've been paying way more attention, what looks the most promising?
I just posted the following at CoT's suggestions forums and it outlines what I most liked and disliked about CoH if that gives you an idea of what's important to me: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/suggestion-dump-what-coh-did-right-what-they-did-wrong
I think it's too soon to tell. I backed CoT - so I'm definitely hoping that my loot gets some return in the form of a game to play instead of these emails I get that promise things are coming "soon". Still, if it were quick and easy, wouldn't we each have made the game as we saw fit? So, I can wait a little longer. What choice do I have?
I do know that if Shipofheroes, or Valiance - if any of them come online and offer something similar to CoH, I'll play that. I won't support multiple games. MMOs are a time sink. And, there's only so much of that I have to waste/spend.
I do think Shipofhereos has a fantastic website, with what looks to be proven leadership behind the scenes. Still, I think they're at least 2-3 years before we can expect anything. Likely, CoT will be done before they are. As far as I know, Valiance may already be done - but I haven't seen any hints about that thus far. They may be in Alpha. I'll wait until the actual release. I am not a fan of bugs.
Ship of heroes? I haven't even heard of that one :(
Like you, I only want to play one so I hope it's the "right" one.
https://www.shipofheroes.com
The site does look good, I have to say that.
They all show some promise; I'm most interested and hopeful for CoT, myself. I think it has the best chance of having a setting/concept that would work for me.
The details are important though, and I won't be able to really judge any of them for myself until they're in late betas.
I agree the Ship website looks nice; although it also makes me suspect they were too loose with borrowing artwork and UI bits for their mockups from existing games. Regardless, there's no way I would ever play an MMO with a name like that - it sounds doofy.
Quote from: ukaserex on January 06, 2017, 07:53:26 PM
https://www.shipofheroes.com
The site does look good, I have to say that.
Wow... Talking about helping themselves to CoH's assets... Sorry, that game is going -nowhere- with that visual styling... NCSoft will spank.
Quote from: FloatingFatMan on January 06, 2017, 09:49:41 PM
Wow... Talking about helping themselves to CoH's assets... Sorry, that game is going -nowhere- with that visual styling... NCSoft will spank.
I had a similar thought. I don't know that they have much of a future. My initial impressions of Heroes and Villains is that their models are scary-looking. Valiance has a great looking website and they're somewhere near Alpha already, but we'll see. So far, maybe CoT is the best bet, but it's a ways out :/
QuoteWow... Talking about helping themselves to CoH's assets... Sorry, that game is going -nowhere- with that visual styling... NCSoft will spank.
Hope SOH knows the safeword . . .
I'm thinking CoT will be my best bet. Valiance just didn't feel right when I played the early version, though that could change. HaV I'm concerned that they're using the Hero engine which was already showing its limits back when I was playing SWTOR. SoH is too early to tell anything.
Quote from: Vee on January 07, 2017, 02:50:54 AM
I'm thinking CoT will be my best bet. Valiance just didn't feel right when I played the early version, though that could change. HaV I'm concerned that they're using the Hero engine which was already showing its limits back when I was playing SWTOR. SoH is too early to tell anything.
SWTOR's Hero Engine is basically a customized fork that was based on the alpha Hero Engine with a lot of rewriting by Bioware's programmers. It's also slightly terrible and requires far too many resources for a result that's inferior to many other engines that use far fewer resources. Not that the official Hero Engine is much better.
Valiance is based in a nearish future scifi superhero universe. As far as i can recall all superpowers are the result of advanced technology and weird science. The last video they released made the city look like the entire place is some sort of corporate park without any people living there. Maybe they all live in underground arcologies? Also VO's universe uses traffic lights designed to cull colorblind people. Either that or they're not allowed to drive, assuming it's still legal for humans to drive at all.
The Ship of Heroes video raised a lot of weird questions in my mind with the premise about the Arch and how it functions in the setting. Like the longer i watched it the more whiskey tango foxtrot alerts kept popping up in my head. i mean, just that the primary powersource/resource refinery for humanity's remnant is completely exposed in a huge open park in the middle of a starship and that alien races routinely sneak into the park to try to raid it had me needing a beefier suspension for my disbelief.
CoT so far does seem the most CoH like in setting and tone, so i'm hoping they really do have something for me to tinker with this year.
Good info! Thanks!
Coming on here rather late, but I'd hold the opinion that CoT likely has the strongest direction and conceptual markers. Putting characters like Anthem - which never seemed to have even been dreamed of by the Cryptic writers, although such ideas may well have been introduced and then shot down - at the forefront of the mix shows that they've made at least a serious attempt to prevent merely rewriting old directives (white boy Captain America/Superman type as first-line world defender), while still keeping the idea of some signature heroes as part of the mix.
At the same time, I do wish there was at least one company that put in to place the concept that DSumner used, and uses, for his online PBEM V&V game: a world where the premier superheroes have disappeared, as a whole (not just diminished in quantity, as in CoH), with the world still filled with ravenous supervillains. It now falls to the PCs to pick up the torch/cross/however you want to phrase it, and set the stage for a new generation of characters to take up the mission; be it Batman/Daredevil street-based, or Thor/Superman cosmic-level.
In any case, back to the original concept: While I think that, based on initial public relations and concept releases, MWM has got the lead on matters, their "Well, maybe" release date of Fall 2018 does leave the door open for many other organizations, in place and still to be conceived, to make the jump ahead with serious good ideas falling into place.
Quote from: FloatingFatMan on January 06, 2017, 09:49:41 PM
Wow... Talking about helping themselves to CoH's assets... Sorry, that game is going -nowhere- with that visual styling... NCSoft will spank.
My understanding is that some of those pictures are just "place-holders". I honestly don't think NCSoft will do a thing. It would be counter-productive for them, and probably embarrassing.
I would agree with ukaserex on this point. In addition, I think NC >:( could care less about their (once abundant) North American customer base.
Quote from: Styrj on January 16, 2017, 10:24:50 PM
I would agree with ukaserex on this point. In addition, I think NC >:( could care less about their (once abundant) North American customer base.
They seem to care enough to not want to sell their IP to us...
I saw the Youtube preview of 'Ship of Heroes' - the head of the group is a former COHr and seems to 'get it' !
This successor came out of nowhere apparently, but I have high hopes.
Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuKm3jvhjLU
Well worth hearing the whole thing.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.sgeorgia.com%2Fpix%2Fsnapshot.jpg)
Thank you, CrashPositron. I just noticed this thread. I would like to respond to the early comments -- there are no art assets taken from COH on the Ship of Heroes website. We created all of it from scratch, often using commercially licensable buildings and art objects that we purchased. It has taken a skilled team nearly a year to create this environment. In fact, our game is the least likely to be sued since we do not mention or continue any of the characters, places, missions, or copyrighted content of CoH. Even more, we are not re-creating a 20th century city with cops and robbers, firemen and arsonists, super villains and superheroes, and with newspaper buildings and fire hydrants on every corner. It's clear that Apotheosis City is NOT Gotham, Metropolis or Paragon. Our plan has always been to build a completely new game, but with a structure that would welcome former COH players (like myself).
I played COH on Justice, Freedom and Virtue servers. Most of our devs played COH, and some of us played it together. When the game closed, one of the most common discussions was "Do you prefer a new game, or do you want COH to just come back, unchanged?" At that time I was in the "unchanged" faction. But as the years have passed I've internalized that "unchanged" does not seem to be a real option. So our team is making the game we'd like to play. We hope many of you will join us.
Kickstarter begins April 4th. If you watch the videos on YouTube, you can see that we already have a working version of the game. It needs a lot more development. But you can see what you'll be getting, if you help us.
Having listened to the whole long video, I'd say it sounds more like "Ship of Pirates" rather than "Ship of Heroes"... Seriously, no "hero" would raid another ship and steal their resources... Just, no... That's not the actions of a hero.
Also, the art is still clearly heavily based on CoH.
I appreciate your thoughts. Please keep them coming. :)
But there is no art taken from COH in SOH. None. Zippo.
If you want to say that Apotheosis City reminds you of COH, well, your opinion is valid. But for many who travel from country to country today, a very common observation is how much cities in China or Europe or America all have striking similarities. We used urban design principles in laying out Apotheosis City. So for example, you see shout-out features to cities in the US and the Middle East and Asia in the level. This is an example of people of the future bringing remembrances of the past on earth into the ship.
Of course, Apotheosis City is created in Unreal 4, so the engine, the assets available to purchase for the engine, and the level of detail are all completely different from any previous game. So the City is completely unique.
Each future level of the Justice, and the worlds visited will be similarly created, and similarly unique.
Oh, and raids against other ships -- those are counter-raids against alien ships who have stolen our stuff, not raids against human or allied species. And that is right in the sweet spot for heroes.
Thanks again.
I'm personally very impressed by everything I see in Ship of Heroes and I'm planning on kicking some money to them. I like their team, I like what I see of their development approach, I'm not wild about the game premise as I'd much rather be running around a 20th century city with fire hydrants, gangs, cops, crooks, secret identities etc, but I think there's potential there. If I could ignore war walls, I can probably ignore the idea that everybody's on a spaceship.
I'm very strongly hoping they'll construct basic street sweeping on the rescue of people and property (hopefully with really good AI on the civvies)
And I'm kind-of stunned by what they've been able to throw together in a year -- that play example is really striking.
Quote from: Consultant on March 13, 2017, 02:18:57 PM
I appreciate your thoughts. Please keep them coming. :)
But there is no art taken from COH in SOH. None. Zippo.
If you want to say that Apotheosis City reminds you of COH, well, your opinion is valid. But for many who travel from country to country today, a very common observation is how much cities in China or Europe or America all have striking similarities. We used urban design principles in laying out Apotheosis City. So for example, you see shout-out features to cities in the US and the Middle East and Asia in the level. This is an example of people of the future bringing remembrances of the past on earth into the ship.
Of course, Apotheosis City is created in Unreal 4, so the engine, the assets available to purchase for the engine, and the level of detail are all completely different from any previous game. So the City is completely unique.
Each future level of the Justice, and the worlds visited will be similarly created, and similarly unique.
I don't mean the city, that's clearly new (although the "robots" were just assets that ship with Unreal Engine). No, what I mean is your UI design and nomenclature for primary/secondary power sets. It's clearly copied straight from CoH. Sorry if you can't see that, but it is. Hopefully it's just a temporary placeholder whilst you come up with your own.
Quote from: Consultant on March 13, 2017, 02:18:57 PM
Oh, and raids against other ships -- those are counter-raids against alien ships who have stolen our stuff, not raids against human or allied species. And that is right in the sweet spot for heroes.
Thanks again.
Heroes don't steal from others, or attack others except in defense of their own. Raids sound like a great GAME mechanic, but heroes just don't do that, sorry. What you describe are the actions of pirates.
What was the last time you saw the Justice League preemptively attacking someone and stealing their stuff?
Quote from: FloatingFatMan on March 14, 2017, 07:27:06 AM
Heroes don't steal from others, or attack others except in defense of their own. Raids sound like a great GAME mechanic, but heroes just don't do that, sorry. What you describe are the actions of pirates.
So how did you envision drops from defeated enemies in CoH?
Quote from: Ohioknight on March 14, 2017, 12:15:05 PM
So how did you envision drops from defeated enemies in CoH?
I didn't, at all. Thankfully CoH didn't have you rooting through the defeated opponents pockets so any drops I got I just completely ignored from a story point of view. It was a pure game mechanic to me, nothing more.
Acts of piracy, on the other hand, are a little harder to ignore from a story point of view. Like I say, I'm sure they'll be an absolute -blast- as far as pure game play mechanics go, but I just don't see how that would work story wise. Heroes are not pirates.
Quote from: FloatingFatMan on March 14, 2017, 06:46:10 PM
I didn't, at all. Thankfully CoH didn't have you rooting through the defeated opponents pockets so any drops I got I just completely ignored from a story point of view. It was a pure game mechanic to me, nothing more.
Acts of piracy, on the other hand, are a little harder to ignore from a story point of view. Like I say, I'm sure they'll be an absolute -blast- as far as pure game play mechanics go, but I just don't see how that would work story wise. Heroes are not pirates.
But heroes can certainly APPREHEND pirates and restore ill-gotten gains to their rightful owners.
Am I the only one who remembers us invading Praetoria and beating up mental patients and shutting down power plants?
Quote from: Kaos Arcanna on March 14, 2017, 11:12:36 PM
Am I the only one who remembers us invading Praetoria and beating up mental patients and shutting down power plants?
And some of the mental patients weren't even strictly crazy. You could be institutionalized in Praetoria just for being a stickler about game mechanics matching particular notions of proper character behavior.
Quote from: Ohioknight on March 14, 2017, 09:16:59 PM
But heroes can certainly APPREHEND pirates and restore ill-gotten gains to their rightful owners.
Absolutely! And if they want to couch the raids in THAT sort of manner...That you're going after a space pirate to make the space lanes safer etc, then I'm all for that as it's far more heroic than just attacking another city ship to steal their stuff!
Quote from: Kaos Arcanna on March 14, 2017, 11:12:36 PM
Am I the only one who remembers us invading Praetoria and beating up mental patients and shutting down power plants?
I didn't like that, either. :p
Raids are fun. yes. But if you're giving your game the theme of heroism, then raids should be phrased as being done for GOOD, not convenience. That raid would have been better if you were rescuing mental patients from illegal detention and mistreatment.
Quote from: FloatingFatMan on March 14, 2017, 07:27:06 AM
What was the last time you saw the Justice League preemptively attacking someone and stealing their stuff?
Well, it wasn't the entire Justice League, but Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman stole about 2 1/2 hours of my life last summer. I'll never get that back.
;D
Quote from: FloatingFatMan on March 15, 2017, 07:21:14 AM
I didn't like that, either. :p
Raids are fun. yes. But if you're giving your game the theme of heroism, then raids should be phrased as being done for GOOD, not convenience. That raid would have been better if you were rescuing mental patients from illegal detention and mistreatment.
It's kinda sounding to me like maybe SoH just isn't right for you
Personally, I am looking forward to CoT, but SoH has me interested. I really appreciate that one of the people working on it is here and interacting, gotta love that. VO I may try to, I have 0 intention of playing H&V though.
Quote from: Taceus Jiwede on April 01, 2017, 12:53:15 AM
It's kinda sounding to me like maybe SoH just isn't right for you
Personally, I am looking forward to CoT, but SoH has me interested. I really appreciate that one of the people working on it is here and interacting, gotta love that. VO I may try to, I have 0 intention of playing H&V though.
Personally, I'd love to play H&V. I just don't expect to.
Quote from: Taceus Jiwede on April 01, 2017, 12:53:15 AM
It's kinda sounding to me like maybe SoH just isn't right for you
I'm a roleplayer. For me, the
reasons for doing something are infinitely more important than the game mechanic of doing it.
Quote from: Taceus Jiwede on April 01, 2017, 12:53:15 AM
I have 0 intention of playing H&V though.
I'm the same. Maybe if certain persons weren't heavily involved in it, I might. But I just can't stand that... person.
Quote from: FloatingFatMan on April 01, 2017, 01:09:06 PM
I'm a roleplayer. For me, the reasons for doing something are infinitely more important than the game mechanic of doing it.
I'm the same. Maybe if certain persons weren't heavily involved in it, I might. But I just can't stand that... person.
Ya I get that, I honestly am not much of a Role Player but in CoH I couldn't help but get a little submerged. I can see how coming from CoH to another game the bar would be set quite high because of how RP friendly CoH was, especially if you are a seasoned RPer. CoH and the Souls games always get me Role Playing, at least I have the latter still.
As for H&V that is the exact reason I won't be playing it too
CoT all the way for me - it's the only successor I see myself growing attached to ala CoH...
Quote from: ukaserex on January 06, 2017, 07:53:26 PM
https://www.shipofheroes.com
The site does look good, I have to say that.
Speaking of which.... One of the biggest reasons I have trouble getting excited about CoT is that their site is a nightmare to navigate so I can never find the info I'm looking for about the game and it's setting.
CoT seems to have the overall concept I am hoping for but I feel its the one we have seen the least content from. In the end, I will play whatever releases first, but overall CoT seems to have a good story lore and will have the most available upon launch.
Quote from: princezilla on July 10, 2017, 04:52:01 AM
Speaking of which.... One of the biggest reasons I have trouble getting excited about CoT is that their site is a nightmare to navigate so I can never find the info I'm looking for about the game and it's setting.
Working on it whenever there is a lull in other work.
Heck, if you or anyone knows someone who wants to go through the piles of material to create the website writeups, and organize them, let me know!
Haven't looked at any of the successors for awhile. So, I used this as an excuse to look in on CoT. I must say, it looks and sounds very promising. I like what I read about the powersets and costumes. They get a big thumbs up from me so far!
Can't wait to play!
Quote from: FloatingFatMan on March 14, 2017, 07:27:06 AMWhat was the last time you saw the Justice League preemptively attacking someone and stealing their stuff?
Erm. Doesn't Superman keep a museum of "retrieved" items in his Fortress?
Pretty sure the Batcave has similar.
Quote from: FloatingFatMan on March 14, 2017, 07:27:06 AM
I don't mean the city, that's clearly new (although the "robots" were just assets that ship with Unreal Engine). No, what I mean is your UI design and nomenclature for primary/secondary power sets. It's clearly copied straight from CoH. Sorry if you can't see that, but it is. Hopefully it's just a temporary placeholder whilst you come up with your own.
Heroes don't steal from others, or attack others except in defense of their own. Raids sound like a great GAME mechanic, but heroes just don't do that, sorry. What you describe are the actions of pirates.
What was the last time you saw the Justice League preemptively attacking someone and stealing their stuff?
....What are you talking about? Heroes and police, both in real life and in comics do preemptive raids all the time to confiscate illegal weapons, drugs and other such things before they can be used.
Quote from: MyriVerse on July 12, 2017, 03:47:25 PM
Erm. Doesn't Superman keep a museum of "retrieved" items in his Fortress?
Pretty sure the Batcave has similar.
Do either of them pre-emptively charge into the homes of people they don't even know are criminals, attack them, and take their stuff?
Quote from: princezilla on July 12, 2017, 10:10:30 PM
....What are you talking about? Heroes and police, both in real life and in comics do preemptive raids all the time to confiscate illegal weapons, drugs and other such things before they can be used.
Real life police raid the homes of real life criminals AFTER getting court orders, and superheroes don't actually exist. In the comic book world, how many times have you seen superheroes charge into the homes of people they don't even know are criminals (which is what this essentially IS... You're raiding city ships similar to your own for their resources), and steal their stuff?
Quote from: FloatingFatMan on July 13, 2017, 06:21:18 AM
Real life police raid the homes of real life criminals AFTER getting court orders, and superheroes don't actually exist. In the comic book world, how many times have you seen superheroes charge into the homes of people they don't even know are criminals (which is what this essentially IS... You're raiding city ships similar to your own for their resources), and steal their stuff?
Yes that was why I said both heroes and real and fictional police. :p Regardless basically all the raiding mechanics that were talked about here involved people engaging in some kind of wrongdoing.
Quote from: FloatingFatMan on July 13, 2017, 06:19:05 AM
Do either of them pre-emptively charge into the homes of people they don't even know are criminals, attack them, and take their stuff?
No, they usually know they are criminals. They just don't usually wait around for silly things like search warrants.
And as said, you're stealing back your stuff. There is no jurisdictional nonsense involved. No necessity to have warrants.
You should also probably know that "hero" is an extremely subjective term. It's not like our characters didn't do the same exact things in City of Heroes. They did. A LOT.