Titan Network

What ever happened to the rebirth of COH? The developers and staff  are doing a great job and have brought us where we never thought we'd see again. We hear how tightly NCsoft is holding onto the PR of COH. Marvel lost against NCsoft.
Here's my suggestion:  Why not just go on the offensive and build/re-build COH to the closest issue to 24? Go ahead and let NCsoft sue for infringing on their proprietary rights (PR). What are they going to do request a cease and desist of something they are already allowing us to use? Recently Apple sued Samsung for PR violations and lost on the ruling of "common knowledge". I think it's time to go on the offensive. I bet a dollar to a donut NCsoft does nothing. 8)

Its very easy for you to suggest this while letting others take the potentailly life ruining legal flak. As much as we all miss CoH, none of us should expect anyone to get into huge trouble over a video game.

Besides, negotiations for its re release are still ongoing. It would be foolhardy to destroy those efforts, especially since they've been ongoing for years.

NCSoft won't come after you ... for donuts.

Quote from: Paragon Avenger on February 17, 2016, 01:18:48 AM
NCSoft won't come after you ... for donuts.

So someone else sees that NCsoft's a whimp! it would cost them far too much money and there were be the key question, "Why are you suing COT/Paragon if you're allowing them access to the very same zones"? I rest my case. After all it was getting heavy ;D
8)

Quote from: aXe on February 16, 2016, 10:29:05 PM
Its very easy for you to suggest this while letting others take the potentailly life ruining legal flak.

It's also very easy to suggest someone else putting in all the hard work to recreate something that represents 11 or 12 years of continuous development.

I've yet to see anyone put forward a solid plan to do so that doesn't involve handwaving numerous developers out of thin air who have the chops to reverse engineer something of that scope, forwards engineer something compatible with it, and enough free time to spend on it.

But by all means, if you the proverbial reader have the skills and manpower to do something like that, and the resources to withstand whatever legal assault NCSoft mounts (hint: google Aion private servers in Japan, or the Tabula Rasa emulator), go for it.

If only someone had suggested this sooner!  All this time...

I propose three teams: team one will remake the game perfectly. hell, go ahead and upgrade the engine etc. and allow for game updates. team two will be in charge of discovering a parallel earth where CoH never existed and a way to transport us all there (the latter might be trivial given Joshex's Beyonder powers). Team three will be in charge of parallel earth logistics such as setting up our identities, housing, funding etc. so that we're all able to play as much as we want when we get there.

Quote from: Reaper on February 18, 2016, 08:04:13 PM
If only someone had suggested this sooner!  All this time...

DOH!

Quote from: aXe on February 16, 2016, 10:29:05 PM
Its very easy for you to suggest this while letting others take the potentailly life ruining legal flak. As much as we all miss CoH, none of us should expect anyone to get into huge trouble over a video game.

Besides, negotiations for its re release are still ongoing. It would be foolhardy to destroy those efforts, especially since they've been ongoing for years.

It may not be fool  hardy if the PR is abandoned  ;):
                                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proprietary software which is no longer marketed, supported or sold by its owner is called "abandon ware" and the digital form of orphaned works.
If the proprietor of a software package should cease to exist, or decide to cease or limit production or support for a proprietary software package, recipients and users of the package may have no recourse if problems are found with the software.  Proprietors can fail to improve and support software because of business problems.  Support for older or existing versions of a software package may be ended to force users to upgrade and pay for newer versions (Planned obsolescence).  Sometimes another vendor or a software's community themselves can provide support for the software, or the users can migrate to either competing systems with longer support life cycles or to FOSS-based systems.
Realistically and for practical purposes, COH has been abandoned.
why would NCsoft ever waste their money or  time seeking  an injunction on something they have abandoned? Neither I  nor does anyone else  know what NCsoft would do. I believe  NCsoft will do what is cheapest and easiest for this mess, which they created, to just go away.
  8)

Quote from: Doc Artz on February 19, 2016, 12:38:33 AM
why would NCsoft ever waste their money or  time seeking  an injunction on something they have abandoned? Neither I  nor does anyone else  know what NCsoft would do. I believe  NCsoft will do what is cheapest and easiest for this mess, which they created, to just go away.

Tabula Rasa was also abandoned. NCsoft hit them with a Cease & Desist order regardless. We know what they would do, because they've already done it.

If you have lawyers on your payroll, then it costs you almost nothing to take these actions.

I have read any number of articles on this subject.  All of this has to take into consideration a couple of things;

1) Matt Miller said the code for CoH had devolved into spagetti.  Remaking it would be a nightmare.
2) According to everything I have read, there were legal reasons that they shut down CoH, not monetary ones.  Until those issues are resolved, I doubt we will see CoH reborn or CoH2.

That said, there is a legal precedent in the US.  It was ruled that a game that could not be accessed because there are no authentication servers could be accessed without penalty, assuming there is available server software.  This means that if you have viable server software for a game abandoned by the game creator, you can use your own authentication system and restart the game.

That said, refer back to point number 1.  It would probably take a dedicated team years to rebuild the code for CoH, and there would be no hope at all of regaining your old characters and stuff.

Also, number 2.  While it is obvious that NCsoft has given up on CoH, at least for now, they are still defending the trademark.  This eliminates the abandonment angle and gives them the right to sue anyone that tries to recreate the game.

Except a group is working to buy the game and there were no legal reasons it was shut down.

It was shutdown because NCSoft was moving to the Asian market and CoH did not make enough money to keep open. It was business and nothing personal on the shutdown - things got personal on the effort to rebuy.

Quote from: Leandro on February 19, 2016, 12:43:39 AM
Tabula Rasa was also abandoned. NCsoft hit them with a Cease & Desist order regardless. We know what they would do, because they've already done it.

I certainly understand the skepticisms of those who fear the major cost of retribution from NCSoft. I've also, as have many others, been researching  the pros and cons of open source and the topic is vast and still unclear to say the least. 
-------------------------------------
"An Open Source Alternative:  However, contractual terms differ from one game maker to another with respect to the rights that players may have to the virtual property that they create. For example, in 2003, Linden Lab allowed subscribers to retain full intellectual property protection in content that they create. Conversely, other game makers, such as Blizzard Entertainment, retain ownership in their games and virtual property. In December 2005, Marvel Entertainment Inc. settled a lawsuit with NCSoft Corp. on the issue of whether players, using a content creation engine in the game, could create avatars that resembled famous Marvel comic characters such as Spider-Man. Although the terms of the settlement were undisclosed, NCSoft said that the parties' settlement does not reduce the players' ability to express their creativity in making and playing original and exciting characters.

The application of open source to a virtual world would remove control of the online game from the hands of a corporate game maker by allowing the evolution of the game to be accomplished through the contributions of individuals. In such a scenario, the players would be obligated to sign public license agreements, thereby removing any proprietary interest that they may have in the game or its virtual property. Some content that by creating a world where liked-minded players with no proprietary interest in the game or its property participate, many of the legal issues surrounding virtual property would essentially be eliminated." http://www.law360.com/articles/5280/can-virtual-property-gain-legal-protection
8)

Quote from: Vee on February 18, 2016, 08:42:26 PM
I propose three teams: team one will remake the game perfectly. hell, go ahead and upgrade the engine etc. and allow for game updates. team two will be in charge of discovering a parallel earth where CoH never existed and a way to transport us all there (the latter might be trivial given Joshex's Beyonder powers). Team three will be in charge of parallel earth logistics such as setting up our identities, housing, funding etc. so that we're all able to play as much as we want when we get there.

I personally think that's a great idea to cover our butts. Only team two could be accused of virtual mugging or assaulting other characters in an online game to steal their assets. If NCsoft comes after us, then drop team one.  :)
8)

Quote from: Doc Artz on February 16, 2016, 06:07:37 PM
What ever happened to the rebirth of COH? The developers and staff  are doing a great job and have brought us where we never thought we'd see again. We hear how tightly NCsoft is holding onto the PR of COH. Marvel lost against NCsoft.
Here's my suggestion:  Why not just go on the offensive and build/re-build COH to the closest issue to 24? Go ahead and let NCsoft sue for infringing on their proprietary rights (PR). What are they going to do request a cease and desist of something they are already allowing us to use? Recently Apple sued Samsung for PR violations and lost on the ruling of "common knowledge". I think it's time to go on the offensive. I bet a dollar to a donut NCsoft does nothing. 8)

Why didn't we think of rebuilding the game?

I have to admit I laughed right out loud when I saw the voting option appear.  If only there was an option that said "I was secretly holding a copy of the rebuilt product and thought it would be funny to sit on it for a while."

Although "Yes" is probably the best answer.   ;)

Doc, We've already been over this (AD NAUSEUM) in these forums about what we'd like:
- We want the original game running somewhere (the SERVER pieces)
- We want the IP rights so we can include thematic tie-ins (zones, characters, story lines) within the successor efforts
- We want the legal option to write a work-alike of the original with updated graphics (SERVER and/or CLIENT)

Also, there are already 4 efforts to recreate the game or a successor, and an effort to secure the IP and a backup of the server components.

Quote from: chuckv3 on February 22, 2016, 05:06:06 PM
Doc, We've already been over this (AD NAUSEUM) in these forums about what we'd like:
- We want the original game running somewhere (the SERVER pieces)
- We want the IP rights so we can include thematic tie-ins (zones, characters, story lines) within the successor efforts
- We want the legal option to write a work-alike of the original with updated graphics (SERVER and/or CLIENT)

Also, there are already 4 efforts to recreate the game or a successor, and an effort to secure the IP and a backup of the server components.

;D I'm more than appreciative  to hear all that's happening and the continued work by everyone involved. Let's face it, sometimes one may need to try a different approach to get what we want by learning what they don't want. I still believe we should keep on "stirring the rice pot"  <-- poor choice of a metaphors, and hear as many response as possible. Spending literally hours  poring  :roll:  through both the National and International laws concerning Proprietary Rights has been a learning experience for many.  They're NOT a "sacred  cow" <---another poor choice of a metaphor, especially when it comes to online gaming. Keep up the good work and thank you for the information.  COH will return!!
8)

i don't have the foggiest idea what your poorly chosen metaphors are supposed to invoke but i feel skeevy nonetheless.

Quote from: chuckv3 on February 22, 2016, 05:06:06 PM
- We want the IP rights so we can include thematic tie-ins (zones, characters, story lines) within the successor efforts

I was under the impression that the successors (other than Atlas Park Revival) had turned down that option, as they have already invested a lot of time into creating their own IP. I thought the IP was so that CoH 2 could be made, or so that other media (other types of games, books, etc.) could be used.

Quote from: Ironwolf on February 21, 2016, 01:06:35 AM
Except a group is working to buy the game and there were no legal reasons it was shut down.

It was shutdown because NCSoft was moving to the Asian market and CoH did not make enough money to keep open. It was business and nothing personal on the shutdown - things got personal on the effort to rebuy.

IF only things hadn't got personal  :(

Quote from: Doc Artz on February 19, 2016, 12:38:33 AM
It may not be fool  hardy if the PR is abandoned  ;):
                                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proprietary software which is no longer marketed, supported or sold by its owner is called "abandon ware" and the digital form of orphaned works.

Abandonware isn't a legal term, and no rights exist to access it. (Sadly). You just are less likey to get DMCA take down requests if you host it compared to hosting a latest release game.
A lot of Abandonware sites have games that are still being sold at places like gog.com

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-is-abandonware-and-is-it-legal/

I'm with Iron on this one :>. I can wait, CO's doing decent(In-game only) at tiding me over :). TA is decent, but the nerfs..well, I know that BS wouldnt be pulled in CoH(post revival or Pre-shutdown) so it's even more incentive to wait :P

I think the op was basically saying to code an entirely new game with the same systems coh had and reuse all the art and models. In this manner you wouldn't be reverse engineering server code since you'd code your own server software and code a client to work with it.

Something that's more plausible than waiting 3 to 4 more years only to never legally get the game back. Which I'm beginning to think is the reality at this point...

Write to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. They're our best hope to making emulators legal. They've already had progress with giving an exemption to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act for abandoned video games that required an authentication server to run. "Abandoned" games can now legally be hacked so we can still play them after online servers have been shut down.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/new-dmca-ss1201-exemption-video-games-closer-look

The current wording of the exemption does not extend to online multiplayer capability. MMO's are a particularly important piece of human history now because they represent the formation of communities, and in some cases, literal virtual towns and cities, all built by players. MMO's demonstrate a groundbreaking shift in how human communities and societies grow and sustain themselves, and because of this extra 'living element,' MMO's are something that many of us have a far deeper personal connection to than other games. These games aren't just bits and bytes. These are worlds that were designed by artists who own a copyright, yes, but upon arrival, we molded and shaped those worlds to suit our needs and brought another layer of life to them. We made them our own, and they became a second home. The EFF needs to hear how important it is that the DMCA exception be expanded to online play. Unless I'm overlooking something, that's all that stands in the way of legally emulating an online CoH.

"As one of the proponents, I can definitively say that we were able to provide far more evidence of communities that wished to restore multiplayer access to games where servers had been deactivated than of single-player shutdowns."

They're aware of how critical it is that online communities have their homes back. But it never hurts to keep sending the message. And a couple of good stories about how the death of CoH or other MMO's has affected you personally, could be utilized in future negotiations. Keep the pressure on.

Quote from: Ice Trix on March 10, 2016, 08:41:33 AM
Abandonware isn't a legal term, and no rights exist to access it. (Sadly). You just are less likey to get DMCA take down requests if you host it compared to hosting a latest release game.
A lot of Abandonware sites have games that are still being sold at places like gog.com
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-is-abandonware-and-is-it-legal/

Actually publications in gaming and or tech magazines say what their readers want to hear. The Federal Statutes clearly describe Abandonware. Well  not so clearly to those who don't read legalese. The Federal Statutes clearly describes the  law as it applies to Proprietary Rights.  I have no doubt that  NCsoft would be first asked by ANY Judge in a court proceeding, Why did you wait so long to file after allowing  others to use your allegedly abandoned software? Below is but a few of the of the many Federal Statutes clearly outlining legal definitions of abandon ware.
http://www.liebertpub.com/dcontent/files/samplechapters/Sample_InternetGamingLawSecondEditionRe.pdf
http://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1022&context=penn_law_review
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-is-abandonware-and-is-it-legal/ <-- Is a gaming website NOT a Federal or international Statute

8)   8)  ;)

While this is all very nice and interesting, the real problem was stated by our resident problem solver, Codewalker.

Code may be written to create a compiler to compile code. And code might be written to produce new code. But - who's going to produce the code that will produce a chat server that co-exists along with all the other servers that made up CoH/V/GR?

Further - once you found someone that actually could do that - even if they had just done it yesterday - that effort would take a ton of time. People gotta eat. Food doesn't come free - you have to work for that, at least, most of us do.

So, um, yeah, I gotta say I agree with Codewalker - if you can find someone that can do it - knock yourselves out. I'll even contribute a bit financially. But, I'm fresh out of time, and it's been years since I called someone a Null Pointer Exception in an argument. I lack the code chops to to do such a thing.


All that said - I appreciate your desire to have the game back.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: SWG

It has several emulators of pre nge, pre cu and now an nge server made from leaked source code; which is now spread all over the internet. The ip is owned by Disney of all people, the company that is famous for lawsuits and they haven't lifted a finger to shut down any of those servers. And those servers were built and coded by volunteers with donations and funding through paypal (which some will argue is profit)

I'm sorry, I've tried to remain positive all this time but the carrot on a stick isn't looking that appealing anymore and its hard to believe that it takes years for ncsoft to sale the game and complete this deal we've been waiting on.

It's going to take the same risks the swg community took to get our game back; now if only we can find someone that will take that risk.

Quote from: Noyjitat on March 24, 2016, 11:01:33 PMIt has several emulators of pre nge, pre cu and now an nge server made from leaked source code; which is now spread all over the internet. The ip is owned by Disney of all people, the company that is famous for lawsuits and they haven't lifted a finger to shut down any of those servers. And those servers were built and coded by volunteers with donations and funding through paypal (which some will argue is profit)

Even with the Mouse involved, NCsoft is STILL, sadly, worse in this regard.

Disney has always been very aggressive, but not in the same way. If nothing else, Disney understands what makes a fanbase tick. They go after uses of their properties that earn money. They don't crack down on fan pages. Also, Star Wars is an odd ball in the grand scheme. Say what you want about George Lucas's shortcomings, but one very positive thing about him is he encouraged creativity as much as he could without ripping himself off. As far as he's concerned, do whatever the heck you want with the Star Wars IP, just don't sell what you create. He even went as far as hosting a contest every year for creators of Star Wars fanfilms. At least for now, Disney seems to be respecting the spirit of the fandom that Lucas promoted.

We have the misfortune of CoH being owned by what is probably the most paranoid and aggressive copyright enforcer in the world of gaming. World of Warcraft is still running and there are private servers that Blizzard isn't taking down. Independent servers of EA games exist. EA, which is hailed as the grand daddy of all evil gaming corporations, doesn't go after independent servers. SWG emulators for CU and pre-CU began springing up before the game shutdown and SOE did nothing. NCsoft has shutdown any emulation servers for any of their games, whether they're abandoned or not, and they are quite zealous about it.

It's either risk a server getting taken down or continue to hope ncsoft cares to make a deal and I'm sure I'm not the only one that sees a carrot on a stick that has begun to wither away.

I think that those who want a CoH emu should go right on ahead and make one, end of story.  You won't be so pushy about it once YOU are the one who has to kiss your whole life goodbye for however-many years to make it happen.  It's all too easy to give the shirt off someone else's back.

SWG (pre-NGE) emu has been running for what, 12-15 years now, and it's still a major disaster area.  Emus are a lifelong pursuit for a half-baked, crumbling, messed up ball of flame that has C & Ds hanging over its head besides.  I very seriously doubt any of you crying for a CoH emu would be even remotely happy with one if it was ever really made.  It would also likely not be ready for a server launch for another ten years, even if it had a dedicated team who had major rent and food money magically dropping from the skies onto them whenever they worked on it.

Look how many real-live Kickstarter MMOs go belly up!  And they have relatively major funding compared to what you are demanding.

Please get real here.

Quote from: Surelle on March 28, 2016, 08:38:26 PM
I think that those who want a CoH emu should go right on ahead and make one, end of story.  You won't be so pushy about it once YOU are the one who has to kiss your whole life goodbye for however-many years to make it happen.  It's all too easy to give the shirt off someone else's back.

SWG (pre-NGE) emu has been running for what, 12-15 years now, and it's still a major disaster area.  Emus are a lifelong pursuit for a half-baked, crumbling, messed up ball of flame that has C & Ds hanging over its head besides.  I very seriously doubt any of you crying for a CoH emu would be even remotely happy with one if it was ever really made.  It would also likely not be ready for a server launch for another ten years, even if it had a dedicated team who had major rent and food money magically dropping from the skies onto them whenever they worked on it.

Look how many real-live Kickstarter MMOs go belly up!  And they have relatively major funding compared to what you are demanding.

Please get real here.

Easy to say for someone who just got their ass kicked by Batman (snicker). 

Quote from: Surelle on March 28, 2016, 08:38:26 PM
I think that those who want a CoH emu should go right on ahead and make one, end of story.  You won't be so pushy about it once YOU are the one who has to kiss your whole life goodbye for however-many years to make it happen.  It's all too easy to give the shirt off someone else's back.

SWG (pre-NGE) emu has been running for what, 12-15 years now, and it's still a major disaster area.  Emus are a lifelong pursuit for a half-baked, crumbling, messed up ball of flame that has C & Ds hanging over its head besides.  I very seriously doubt any of you crying for a CoH emu would be even remotely happy with one if it was ever really made.  It would also likely not be ready for a server launch for another ten years, even if it had a dedicated team who had major rent and food money magically dropping from the skies onto them whenever they worked on it.

Look how many real-live Kickstarter MMOs go belly up!  And they have relatively major funding compared to what you are demanding.

Please get real here.

Emulators don't get sued unless they become big and charge for features like some of wow's emulators did. It isn't worth company time and resources to tie it up in court so often a c&d is sent and then the project will go into hiding only to resurface under a different name and then they continue where they left off.

Also yes most of us would be happy with combat, missions and npcs to kill even with stability issues. I'm playing swglegends right now which is everything up to the last few game publishes of the live server and I'm having lots of fun there. no lag, and everything works minus parts of the chat system (which is being coded and fixed at this moment) The big battle we face is fixing some stability issues and they've done a good job with that thus far. All volunteers and donations via paypal. There's also projectswg which is being coded from the ground up also by volunteers and paypal donations and that looks like it will be complete in about two years at it's current pace.

Perhaps if we're still at this same point at this same time next year, without a game or under some "nda" or whatever carrot on a stick ncsoft is giving us. Someone out there will put a team together and start the project.

Quote from: Surelle on March 28, 2016, 08:38:26 PM
I think that those who want a CoH emu should go right on ahead and make one, end of story.  You won't be so pushy about it once YOU are the one who has to kiss your whole life goodbye for however-many years to make it happen.  It's all too easy to give the shirt off someone else's back.

SWG (pre-NGE) emu has been running for what, 12-15 years now, and it's still a major disaster area.  Emus are a lifelong pursuit for a half-baked, crumbling, messed up ball of flame that has C & Ds hanging over its head besides.  I very seriously doubt any of you crying for a CoH emu would be even remotely happy with one if it was ever really made.  It would also likely not be ready for a server launch for another ten years, even if it had a dedicated team who had major rent and food money magically dropping from the skies onto them whenever they worked on it.

Look how many real-live Kickstarter MMOs go belly up!  And they have relatively major funding compared to what you are demanding.

Please get real here.

100% agreed.

Quote from: Doc Artz on February 16, 2016, 06:07:37 PM
Recently Apple sued Samsung for PR violations and lost on the ruling of "common knowledge". I think it's time to go on the offensive.

I really don't see the connections between that case and what you are proposing. What you are proposing is someone copy a LOT of copyrighted material to make an exact replica, not make something similar to or even based on something else.

Look at Deadpool (Marvel) and Deathstroke (DC). Deadpool was clearly based on Deathstroke, from his fighting style, healing powers, elements of his costume, even down to real name (Wade Wilson vs Slade Wilson). This is pretty damn close to copyright infringement, but there are enough differences to keep it from being so, therefore it is legal. If people wanted to make games LIKE CoH, but NOT CoH, they could. This is the same kind of thing you are talking about with Samsung vs Apple.

What you are wanting is more like if DC Comics came out with Spiderman comics, character's real name is Peter Parker, all the same abilities, storylines, everything. Reprinting all the old comics, but with DC's logo covering Marvel's on the original covers.



You are far from alone in wanting the game back, but it isn't as easy as you seem to think. Even assuming there were enough savvy programmers who could whip up an exact copy of a game that was developed for almost a decade exactly as it was when it was shut down, even if you didnt have to take into consideration the amount of time or resources it would take them to do it where they would be unpaid for their efforts, the best you could really hope for in the long run is a single player or personally hosted experience, it would never be able to survive as an MMO. It would be shut down. Look into Pokemon MMOs for instance, there are many out there built from scratch, surviving on donations, and Nintendo is going after every one of them they can find with everything they have. Some got to go for a couple years, but that's the best you can really hope for.

Yeah... we know it's going to be hard. But it has a higher chance of success than any deal with ncsoft ever will have. And if you really want the game back you shouldn't fear monger those that may have the skills to actually code the game and get it back in our hands; nor should you put all your eggs into one basket. Try everything possible to get the game back and more. But I digress, let's see if we get a real update by this same time next year that amounts to more than the results of a chess match with ncsoft i.e. a stalemated checkmate and another nda.

We are in a time right now where we are watching people's lives be ruined by copyright claims. This is a major topic right now, these past few months, not just in the world of game emulators, but all over the internet. The recent major abuse of the copyright claim system on YouTube, especially by gaming companies, has brought this issue into the light. Talking about this is NOT fear mongering. This is pointing out to the people demanding emulators what the people capable of even beginning such a project already know, and explaining some of the problems with the "Just rebuild it" attitude.

Here's the deal. Ever since the announcement of the shut down there have been threads here, on the CoH boards before they were closed, Reddit, and probably plenty of other places where every few months (or days in the beginning) someone has the brilliant idea of "just make an emulator", just like this thread. People inevitably chime in that "yeah, just do it, it should be easy", and others try to explain the many reasons why it is not that simple. Mostly because no one has the game code besides NCSoft, and it would be designing a full game from scratch (which IS happening, go check out the Atlas Revival Project).

No one who has ever suggested that someone should just "do it" has any of the necessary skills to do it themselves. The people who DID have that kind of skill either did not have the time/interest to do it (or you would probably be hearing something by now) or joined one of the successor projects. I'm sure individuals or small teams tried back when the shutdown was announced, only to realize the obvious, that a game that was in development for 3 years before launch by a large team of skilled developers, and then received regular updates the entire time it was running, cannot be duplicated by one or two people. The amount of work in just rebuilding the various zones would take one or two people months/years of full time, unpaid work. Then there's powers. Then there's animations. Player models, enemy models, player stats, enemy stats, AI behavior, costumes, server hosting, file distribution, and a million and a half backend things that we who don't program video games would probably never know about.

The "fear mongering" is not what is preventing anything, it is just a new and currently very relevant problem, so that is why people decided to bring it up rather than spelling out the same old things for the millionth time. The fact is that we KNOW NCSoft would do everything they could to shut the servers down, to sue anyone who even tried to break even on the cost of development into bankruptcy, and from a player perspective the best we could hope for is the code is given to someone else to host for a while before they are shut down and sued, and so on, so we can start from scratch every few months.

But since historical reference to similar cases means nothing and the rest of us are clearly worried about nothing, why dont some of you who think it's so easy just go ahead and do it? I'll play healer when you get the game back online  8)

Quote from: Inc42 on March 30, 2016, 02:22:16 PM
We are in a time right now where we are watching people's lives be ruined by copyright claims. This is a major topic right now, these past few months, not just in the world of game emulators, but all over the internet. The recent major abuse of the copyright claim system on YouTube, especially by gaming companies, has brought this issue into the light. Talking about this is NOT fear mongering. This is pointing out to the people demanding emulators what the people capable of even beginning such a project already know, and explaining some of the problems with the "Just rebuild it" attitude.

Here's the deal. Ever since the announcement of the shut down there have been threads here, on the CoH boards before they were closed, Reddit, and probably plenty of other places where every few months (or days in the beginning) someone has the brilliant idea of "just make an emulator", just like this thread. People inevitably chime in that "yeah, just do it, it should be easy", and others try to explain the many reasons why it is not that simple. Mostly because no one has the game code besides NCSoft, and it would be designing a full game from scratch (which IS happening, go check out the Atlas Revival Project).

No one who has ever suggested that someone should just "do it" has any of the necessary skills to do it themselves. The people who DID have that kind of skill either did not have the time/interest to do it (or you would probably be hearing something by now) or joined one of the successor projects. I'm sure individuals or small teams tried back when the shutdown was announced, only to realize the obvious, that a game that was in development for 3 years before launch by a large team of skilled developers, and then received regular updates the entire time it was running, cannot be duplicated by one or two people. The amount of work in just rebuilding the various zones would take one or two people months/years of full time, unpaid work. Then there's powers. Then there's animations. Player models, enemy models, player stats, enemy stats, AI behavior, costumes, server hosting, file distribution, and a million and a half backend things that we who don't program video games would probably never know about.

The "fear mongering" is not what is preventing anything, it is just a new and currently very relevant problem, so that is why people decided to bring it up rather than spelling out the same old things for the millionth time. The fact is that we KNOW NCSoft would do everything they could to shut the servers down, to sue anyone who even tried to break even on the cost of development into bankruptcy, and from a player perspective the best we could hope for is the code is given to someone else to host for a while before they are shut down and sued, and so on, so we can start from scratch every few months.

But since historical reference to similar cases means nothing and the rest of us are clearly worried about nothing, why dont some of you who think it's so easy just go ahead and do it? I'll play healer when you get the game back online  8)

Exactly this.  Especially the "why dont some of you who think it's so easy just go ahead and do it? I'll play healer when you get the game back online" part, except I'll tank.   ;)

I agree with the above. I mean, you'll basically be doing the same thing as THeM, getting the ok from NC so your server and game won't be completely shutdown, it'll take the same amount(or not at all since you started illegally and they may not be willing to deal with you :P) of time to get the IP to be in the clear, then engine stuff etc etc. And be prepared to have people chompin' at the bits to get every snippet of info on the current progress of well...everything :P. Hope you got those NDAs ready  8)

Quote

Quote from: Doc Artz on March 24, 2016, 07:45:27 PM
Why did you wait so long to file after allowing  others to use your allegedly abandoned software?

I just have to ask because something like this was mentioned in the OP and several times after in this topic. When did NCSoft allow someone to use any part of CoH?

Most likely they are alluding to Icon.  This allows you to enter the character creator and make a character that can then "zone in"...but there are no mobs, no powers, no missions and you are basically alone.  Then there is Paragon Chat which allows you to go in to the character creator and make a character that can then "zone in"...and chat, and role-play with other players.  You have basic movement powers plus emotes but once again no mobs, no combat powers or missions as this was all handled on the NCSoft servers which have long since shut down.  Basically Icon and Paragon Chat use the Client side exclusively.  Which is why NCSoft has not bothered with a cease and desist order.

Quote from: Doc Artz on March 24, 2016, 07:45:27 PM
Actually publications in gaming and or tech magazines say what their readers want to hear. The Federal Statutes clearly describe Abandonware. Well  not so clearly to those who don't read legalese. The Federal Statutes clearly describes the  law as it applies to Proprietary Rights.  I have no doubt that  NCsoft would be first asked by ANY Judge in a court proceeding, Why did you wait so long to file after allowing  others to use your allegedly abandoned software? Below is but a few of the of the many Federal Statutes clearly outlining legal definitions of abandon ware.
http://www.liebertpub.com/dcontent/files/samplechapters/Sample_InternetGamingLawSecondEditionRe.pdf
http://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1022&context=penn_law_review
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-is-abandonware-and-is-it-legal/ <-- Is a gaming website NOT a Federal or international Statute

8)   8)  ;)

Abandonware is really a misnomer because it implies that there's no one left to claim damages if a work is infringing, which isn't the case with most software that is called Abandonware.  (Much like the distinction between hackers/crackers when discussing news on security breaches, and the lack of interest by the media to elucidate between white hat/black hat, or implying all hackers are criminals just for ease of conversation.)

Length of time before defending IP isn't really a big deal in the court rooms.  CBS allowed fan productions of Star Trek for almost a decade after Enterprise concluded that got closer and closer to full blown movie production, and now they've decided to stop it.  It doesn't matter that CBS didn't make a Star Trek TV show for 10+ years (http://www.avclub.com/article/cbs-bites-itself-ass-sues-makers-crowdfunded-star--230186), it's still their IP.

If someone owns an IP to a program, it's not really abandoned.  Companies don't really care how customers see discontinued products, but they'll call their own fans thieves if abandonware is used without permission, and there's no telling what will tip a company off or provoke their interest.

Quote from: TimtheEnchanter on March 25, 2016, 12:22:50 AM
World of Warcraft is still running and there are private servers that Blizzard isn't taking down.

Minor update, a month after you wrote this they did (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/blizzard-shuts-down-popular-fan-run-pirate-server-for-classic-wow/).  Blizzard's response was that they didn't care about the population, lost money, or fan desires to play in a snapshot of the game's past.  It all comes down to defending their IP, and if they tolerate this others would follow.

Based on what I've read, Paramount is the Star Trek copyright holder that's getting angry, rather than CBS. And mostly because of Beyond coming out.

That was a server with over 10000 players. Those and servers selling ingame items for real $ are the ONLY servers blizzard ever targets.

Quote from: Ironwolf on February 21, 2016, 01:06:35 AM
Except a group is working to buy the game and there were no legal reasons it was shut down.
It was shutdown because NCsoft was moving to the Asian market and COH did not make enough money to keep open. It was business and nothing personal on the shutdown - things got personal on the effort to rebuy.

I think we all can agree that NCsoft is NOT CBS, Disney, Blizzard, or even why should we care  there are four efforts trying to recreate the game or a successor. The bottom line is what is our progress with time frames  before we are able to have offensive/defensive  powers and some sort of a mission base, resources for power enhancers (WWs), team and/or SGs? How can one doubt that PayPal  will NOT jump at the chance to fill  the financial void? It seems as if we've move into the state of "Limbo" and don't have a dance partner.
SUGGESTION: Ironwolfs comment is a strong impetus to procedure forward. Suppose we go full force and NCsoft gets its whatever all in a wad and, if they still have money left, NCsoft  issues a CDO (Cease and Desist Order). I'm not sure what or why everyone's  so afraid of receiving a Cease and Desist Order?  Let them waste their money while we "Cease and Desist" whatever they, NCsoft,  whining about. Then we continue on in whichever development path which is best and fastest results.
-----------------------
"The most futile attempt is NO attempt at all." "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." ~ Albert Einstein (BTW: He made that comment while being a patent clerk in a Swiss patent office).
8)

Quote from: Doc Artz on April 23, 2016, 10:05:22 PM
I think we all can agree that NCsoft is NOT CBS, Disney, Blizzard, or even why should we care  there are four efforts trying to recreate the game or a successor. The bottom line is what is our progress with time frames  before we are able to have offensive/defensive  powers and some sort of a mission base, resources for power enhancers (WWs), team and/or SGs? How can one doubt that PayPal  will NOT jump at the chance to fill  the financial void? It seems as if we've move into the state of "Limbo" and don't have a dance partner.
SUGGESTION: Ironwolfs comment is a strong impetus to procedure forward. Suppose we go full force and NCsoft gets its whatever all in a wad and, if they still have money left, NCsoft  issues a CDO (Cease and Desist Order). I'm not sure what or why everyone's  so afraid of receiving a Cease and Desist Order?  Let them waste their money while we "Cease and Desist" whatever they, NCsoft,  whining about. Then we continue on in whichever development path which is best and fastest results.

1. "Our?" Us who? What "we" are you referring to?

2. What does PayPal have to do with anything?

3. A Cease and Desist is the first step before actual legal action. The presence of a C&D implies, first, that a company has taken notice and believes that they are in the legal right to not only issue one but follow up with harsher legal action, and second, that they have an address of an actual person to send it to. Whether or not that person is in charge of a server, a C&D that is ignored means that the person hit with one is likely to get hit with all sorts of lawyers and legal fees, regardless of the final outcome of a case. That's the trouble. NCsoft has lots of lawyers and money - few (if any) people here have the wherewithal to deal with that. Going bankrupt (or to jail, depending on how poorly things turn out) just to play a game is not so appealing, even if that game is City of Heroes :p .

Quote from: Felderburg on April 23, 2016, 10:27:32 PM
1. "Our?" Us who? What "we" are you referring to?....."The presence of a C&D implies,"
You're correct with one phrase, The presence of a C&D implies. It's at said implication we gracefully bow out and continue moving in the current direction.
"We" simple refers to those of us who have donated financially, "who" have hope our game will  return, and "ALL" are those who believe there is a chance to bring back the game many of us spent money to play. PayPal  is, as all well know, those who would help games, Amazon, eBay and many other  customers pay for goods and services. PayPal was with COH for some time. I sort of thought that concept of finding financing while developing would have  been obvious.  :roll:
---------------
As for me,  I've began writing a Task Force (TF) concerning the ancient Greek City State. It'll be two part with the
conclusion a much more difficult challenge. The next phase of the TF would be to  join the Greecian Army in an attempt to concur the City of Troy. It's obviously a work in progress complete with maps, original contacts, in game contacts, and several surprises in each phase of the TF. If the idea is not well received or others opinions and/or suggestions  aren't forth coming, the delete button is but a motion a way.
8)

When you say "donated financially".... do you mean paying for CoH while it was live? Because, since you say we shouldn't care about the successors, there's nothing else to fund. Sure, the Titan Network has a donate button, but that's for the Titan Network, not for bringing CoH back.

Regarding PayPal, your wording made it seem like they would invest directly in bringing CoH back. But yeah, I suppose it could be used as a method for people to pay for a revival of CoH... but no one's going to be charging for that, since it most certainly would bring NCsoft's legal team down on the server.

It's very easy to say "we" should make an emulator already when you really mean "someone who is not me should step up and do all the work and assume all of the risk while they let me play on it".

Why not say, "I bet NCSoft will do nothing and who cares about their C&D's anyway?" when it's the other guy who has to deal with the consequences?

The tolerance level of other companies is irrelevant. People who bring up EA and Earth & Beyond either forget or never knew that EA never gave a smeg about E&B when it was alive. They bought Westwood Studios and E&B was just something that came along.

NCSoft has a history of shutting down emulators on principle. There's every reason to believe that once they find out about an emulator, they'll take action without even learning any more about it than the fact of its existence.

That's why people with the skills and knowledge to make an emulator have chosen to pursue other projects instead. Hand-waving by armchair attorneys with degrees frim Google notwithstanding.

Quote from: Doc Artz on April 23, 2016, 10:05:22 PM
I think we all can agree that NCsoft is NOT CBS, Disney, Blizzard, or even why should we care...

Then I wish you the best of luck retreading what everyone has already discussed countless times in the last three years.

I found a partial quote from Jack Emmert a founder of Cryptic Studios, as well as other developers who worked on COH.
"In retrospect, I kind of regret not pushing back harder at those wanting to limit the creative options. But some were really worried about having yellow ice controllers and whatnot. I let myself get convinced it was the right decision and a few players got locked out of making character concepts they had in their head because we didn't want to have 'Captain Yellow Snow' running around in game."
Maybe we should push back "harder"? Are we HEROES or weenies?  :-[
Below is the URL the interesting article:
http://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/former-city-heroes-developer-gives-impromptu-ama/
8)

I've cited several legal articles about abandonware. Just in case no one has read any of them, below is the definition of the legality of abandonware. The source is at the bottom  :roll:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Is Abandonware Legal?
The simple answer is a definitive no. Copyrighted works that have been abandoned by their creators do not automatically become public property. On the contrary, they remain protected for the duration of the copyright, which varies from country to country. Downloading a copyrighted work is illegal, too, so it's not just the sites that could get in trouble.
So why is Abandonia still running? Like most laws, punishment only occurs if you get caught – and the other side is willing and able to make the charge stick. Most of the software listed on abandonware sites no longer have an owner, so no one can sue. In other cases the owner still exists but has decided not to enforce copyright. System Shock is currently owned by Electronic Arts, yet the original System Shock game can be found on many abandonware sites. Despite the illegality of abandonware, I could find no court cases relating to it. Companies thinking of legal action often choose to send a cease-and-desist letter before filing a lawsuit. Abandonware sites almost always respond by closing shop or taking down the offending software. Those that stay live despite threats of a lawsuit seem to do so by using international borders to their advantage. Home of the Underdogs was founded in Thailand, while Abandonia is located in Sweden. Another reason for the lack of legal precedent may be a desire for goodwill. Electronic Arts has the legal resources to remove every free copy of System Shock on the market, but what would be the point? Legal action could turn into a public relations disaster. Because of these obstacles, abandonware is fairly safe. Those who distribute it are unlikely to be fined and those who download it probably won't sued. Yet this safety could vanish at any time.
Of course, if a developer releases software for free, the story is different. Though rare, a number of games have been released under General Public License, Creative Commons and other publicly available licenses. Once a game is released in this way it can't be reclaimed – but the developer might still hold copyright on new or altered versions of the game. GOG's success also highlights the illegality of abandonware. The only difference between what's on GOG and what's on Abandonia is the threat of a lawsuit. Some justifications, like age or incompatibility with modern systems, no longer seem as strong.
Conclusion
Abandonware is illegal. Downloading commercial software for free is a copyright violation and you could, in theory, be sued. You almost certainly won't be, but that doesn't change the answer to the question of abandonware's legality."
Source: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-is-abandonware-and-is-it-legal/ (http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-is-abandonware-and-is-it-legal/)
8)  ;D

Quote from: Leandro on February 19, 2016, 12:43:39 AM
Tabula Rasa was also abandoned. NCsoft hit them with a Cease & Desist order regardless. We know what they would do, because they've already done it.

Hey, I googled Infinite Rasa the other day, and as of late last fall and early 2017, work is being done on it again.  I don't play on emus, but I thought that was interesting.  Ya can't keep a good team down!

Quote from: Felderburg on February 25, 2016, 05:07:20 AM
I was under the impression that the successors (other than Atlas Park Revival) had turned down that option, as they have already invested a lot of time into creating their own IP. I thought the IP was so that CoH 2 could be made, or so that other media (other types of games, books, etc.) could be used.

I know this is old but I hadn't seen it.

For the record, CoT is not against integrating the CoH lore were it to become available. Of course the devil is in the details.

Quote from: Inc42 on March 29, 2016, 06:27:30 PM
Look at Deadpool (Marvel) and Deathstroke (DC). Deadpool was clearly based on Deathstroke, from his fighting style, healing powers, elements of his costume, even down to real name (Wade Wilson vs Slade Wilson). This is pretty damn close to copyright infringement, but there are enough differences to keep it from being so, therefore it is legal. If people wanted to make games LIKE CoH, but NOT CoH, they could. This is the same kind of thing you are talking about with Samsung vs Apple

If you are seeking this, we have that already, a few of them in fact, under development:

City of Titans
Heroes and Villains
Valiance Online
Ship of Heroes

We've probably all read the below article on Facebook :roll::
"Online games have become ubiquitous and are only growing in popularity," Museum of Art and Digital Entertainment (MADE) of Oakland, Calif. reasoned. "For example, an estimated fifty-three percent of gamers play multiplayer games at least once a week, and spend, on average, six hours a week playing with others online." MADE also SHARPLY pointed out that multiplayer games, today, largely eschew local multiplayer options. "Local multiplayer options are increasingly rare, and many games no longer support LAN connected multiplayer capability," the museum said. MADE wants an EXEMPTION for online games, so that libraries, archives and museums could operate servers for ones that are discontinued by their publishers. Torrent Freak notes that MADE is joined in this call by the digital rights group Pubic Knowledge and others. Public Knowledge pointed to the long-running, ongoing list of Electronic Arts games shut down — most of them licensed works — as proof that preservation is warranted. Therefore, NCSoft cannot sue anyone for using their IP until their IP is actually in use.! At that point NCSoft can the file a cease and desist. If the users refuse to stop then and only THEN can NCSoft sue the users of their product. If too much time of inactivity has passed that may not even be possible, according to the attached article. Are we HEROES or weenies?
Source: https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/23/16814482/dmca-mmo-exemption-made

Not to say I agree with him entirely, but just what all are we missing exactly serverside? I mean we get a lot of info just from what we have client side but I am sure there's a lot of hidden bits and pieces. As a side note: I'd kill for icon to just turn various powers into some kind of emote triggers so we can 'use our powers' even if it all it does is play the animations.

that said, I'm gonna do my usual and step into fantasy realm: I think if I had the time, the resources, and talent to rebuild City of Heroes... I'd keep it a kind of secret club private server. Not because I fear NCsoft's legal action, but because i'd probably change a lot of things that probably wouldn't be popular with folks. Things like changing city zones, instanced mission maps, and old story content up by... A lot. Rolling back the story to before statesman's death, possibly cut down on several blueside zones to instead focus on a well-developed version of individual zones with their own art styles. Changes to various powers (goodbye Oni pet, hello;, Kunoichi. Also: say hello to alternative power selections.) and leveling (more slots, more powers, more ways to be borken), change or alter the story in several places, alter enemy level lists and powers, blatantly insert several points related to my old RP group into the game (Carnival of light camp in Founders, the CCCP base in Kings Row, RPC mission contacts and special taskforces)

I think the only thing no one would complain about would be more costume options and more AE options.

Quote from: Sakura Tenshi on January 23, 2018, 07:10:19 AM
As a side note: I'd kill for icon to just turn various powers into some kind of emote triggers so we can 'use our powers' even if it all it does is play the animations.

I think one of these threads may be what you're looking for:

https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=12106.msg208795

https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=12133.msg213694

I don't really understand the full mechanics, but I guess the game auto shoots powers (once you figure out how to get *those* working) at wherever 0,0,0 coordinates are on the map, and the first one fixes that. The second one is way more than just animations, but that's part of it (I think).

Quote from: Sakura Tenshi on January 23, 2018, 07:10:19 AM
Not to say I agree with him entirely, but just what all are we missing exactly serverside? I mean we get a lot of info just from what we have client side but I am sure there's a lot of hidden bits and pieces. As a side note: I'd kill for icon to just turn various powers into some kind of emote triggers so we can 'use our powers' even if it all it does is play the animations.

that said, I'm gonna do my usual and step into fantasy realm: I think if I had the time, the resources, and talent to rebuild City of Heroes... I'd keep it a kind of secret club private server. Not because I fear NCsoft's legal action, but because i'd probably change a lot of things that probably wouldn't be popular with folks. Things like changing city zones, instanced mission maps, and old story content up by... A lot. Rolling back the story to before statesman's death, possibly cut down on several blueside zones to instead focus on a well-developed version of individual zones with their own art styles. Changes to various powers (goodbye Oni pet, hello;, Kunoichi. Also: say hello to alternative power selections.) and leveling (more slots, more powers, more ways to be borken), change or alter the story in several places, alter enemy level lists and powers, blatantly insert several points related to my old RP group into the game (Carnival of light camp in Founders, the CCCP base in Kings Row, RPC mission contacts and special taskforces)

I think the only thing no one would complain about would be more costume options and more AE options.

I've wondered how much NCSoft was ok with the symbol of City of Heroes being permanently killed off and how Paragon Studio was so adamant to keep it that way.

When I heard about that, that was the straw that got me to stop paying for a subscription, after not playing for probably 6 months.  I wanted to support the game even if I didn't have time to play.  Then literally the next month after I stopped paying, the studio was shut down and the game went into sunset. 

I played those last 3 months every day, although a little sore from the lack of Statesman and no way to access my incarnate powers.

While I think in general, Paragon Studios was wonderful in so many ways and made the game great I think they people had their flaws too.  I have a feeling that they got bored of the world they created and felt the overwhelming need to change things up: like Statesman, Sister Psych, and Galaxy City.  And those 3 things, I felt, were going too far.   

I heard that any possible sale of the IP would require the new owner from disallowing some of Paragon Studios from being apart of the resurrected game. 

Although to get back on topic:
Please can I play my Mind/Kin again, and maybe my Claws/SR...and maybe 5 to 10 others, or 20 or all?  Please?  And without having to start over from level 1.  I won't let my subscription lapse again.  Please?

Quote from: primeknight on February 09, 2018, 01:09:28 AMWhile I think in general, Paragon Studios was wonderful in so many ways and made the game great I think they people had their flaws too.  I have a feeling that they got bored of the world they created and felt the overwhelming need to change things up: like Statesman, Sister Psych, and Galaxy City.  And those 3 things, I felt, were going too far.   

Gonna be honest, I'd probably still kill off statesman or at least move him out of the spotlight, but I'd want to roll things back so we got more chance to know the guy better, and make it hurt that much more when he finally kicks it. I'd try to make it so he doesn't die walking into an obvious trap. Actually, I'd probably even let him live and just be depowered by Darrin Wade, from then on Statesman tries to lead as a normal human using his old soldiering skills. And ultimately dying facing down Incarnate Empowered Praetorians in a badass last stand worthy of Cu Chulainn and successfully hold the line.

Also probably change his powersets (along with those of other key NPCs) to something like a shield defense (because of his idealizing of the Greek Phalanxes, and for the 'oh, crap!' player villains might feel when Statesman shield charges into the party and starts tearing into folks) and Willpower (differentiating him from his invul focused counterparts and showing Statesman's maintained on the side of good despite countless temptations through a strength of will), and throw on some more electrical powers stronger zeus connections.

Uh, that said, I understand why Paragon Studios wanted change things up, some things they did right, others could have been better.

I mean I would have loved for Galaxy city to have been revamped into Art Googie style, but that wasn't gonna be practical.

Quote from: Tahquitz on April 24, 2016, 11:28:25 PM
Then I wish you the best of luck retreading what everyone has already discussed countless times in the last three years.

Give up, retread, call it what you may. The law is the law and is subject to challenges and subsequent appeal(s) which may lead to the laws initial intent. These often take longer than "3 years."
In part, here's the most article published yesterday by The Museum of Art and Digital Entertainment news letter: "Last year, several organizations, including the non-profit Museum of Art and Digital Entertainment, filed a request that the U.S. Copyright Office broaden its exceptions to include online games that have been shut down by their publishers. These would include MMORPGs such as Star Wars Galaxies and City of Heroes. Both of those games still have passionate fan bases, but they are no longer playable due to the fact that the servers shut down several years ago. The Museum of Art and Digital Entertainment is requesting that exemptions be extended to online games. Although the Current Exemption does not cover it, preservation of online video games is now critical," the Museum of Art and Digital Entertainment responded. "Online games have become ubiquitous and are only growing in popularity. For example, an estimated fifty-three percent of gamers play multiplayer games at least once a week, and spend, on average, six hours a week playing with others online"
https://www.digitaltrends.com/.../online-games-dmca-exemption/

Quote from: Doc Artz on February 20, 2018, 12:51:36 AM
Give up, retread, call it what you may. The law is the law and is subject to challenges and subsequent appeal(s) which may lead to the laws initial intent. These often take longer than "3 years."

Dude, I wrote that two years ago (look at the date). 

Yes, I am ready to hear about something new to to the discussion that you haven't mentioned in other (https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=9675.msg224985#msg224985) threads (https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=12812.0), or developments that aren't simply parroting the same news release from (https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/online-games-dmca-exemption/) countless (https://games.slashdot.org/story/17/12/25/0138206/dmca-exemption-sought-to-save-abandoned-online-games) media (http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/us-copyright-office-to-explore-making-some-video-games-public-domain-7396031) outlets (https://gizmodo.com/the-dmca-is-broken-and-it-s-stopping-fans-from-saving-a-1821531479) back in Fall of 2017.

If I haven't made it clear, I've read it all, believe me.  It's kind of my job here. :D

The only new development reported Feb. 18th, 2018: Didn't see this coming -- the gaming industry is against the exemption process for this effort. (https://torrentfreak.com/game-companies-oppose-dmca-exemption-for-abandoned-online-games-180217/)

I'm sure we all have read NCSoft's announcement:
"Today, we are closing Carbine Studios and will begin the process of winding WildStar down to ultimately shutter the game," NCSoft said in a statement. "WildStar players who have spent money within the game will be refunded purchases from July 1, 2018 until the payment system is shut off. We are also in the process of identifying the teams that will be doing the work to bring WildStar to a close. These decisions are very difficult to make and we are in the midst of shifting as many of our teammates as possible into other roles within the organization."
Question: If NCSoft closes Carbine Studios, the proprietary license still held by Carbine Studios will soon be considered as abandoned software making it now available under the abandoned licensing act.
Source: https://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/ncsoft-decides-bury-wildstar/[url]] (http://[/url)https://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/ncsoft-decides-bury-wildstar///

I don't think the Carbine sitch is anything like the CoH sitch.