Author Topic: NCSoft Stockwatch  (Read 727455 times)

Floride

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2020 on: May 14, 2013, 03:30:16 AM »
They tried, it was a huge flop. Though I still remember the remarkably forgettable Jeter Clutch tennis shoe.
They didn't try.
The easiest way to sell adspace is to prove it works. There was nary an Aeon or Lineage billboard anywhere in Paragon or the Isles. You can't expect to sell adspace that you don't even think can promote your own products.
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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2021 on: May 14, 2013, 03:56:01 AM »
No they did try.  The problem was the effectiveness of advertising in games was an unknown.  If the people with the ad budget don't think running an ad in your publication, in our case game, then it doesn't matter how many billboards you have available for rent, no matter how cheap your rates are.  So the agency who was running the whole selling ad space in game, yes there was a third party involved, couldn't get anyone to do so.  Well they did get three ads, 2 in the US and 1 in the EU.  But in the end, that was it. 

Plus I believe Paragon had last say as to what ads they would let run.  No Trojan Man ads for instance (although I could see that being funny at one level the game was still rated T).  No casino ads, no ads for games from other publishers, etc.

You may think it's obvious that an energy drink company or a movie studio with a super hero summer flick would be perfect but it's up to them, not NCSOFT, not Paragon, to think it's good use of part of their ad budget to advertise here.  They didn't see it that way, the ad program closed, the code was removed and that was that.
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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2022 on: May 14, 2013, 04:03:18 AM »
They didn't try.
The easiest way to sell adspace is to prove it works. There was nary an Aeon or Lineage billboard anywhere in Paragon or the Isles. You can't expect to sell adspace that you don't even think can promote your own products.

Except you forget that NCSOFT doesn't advertise any of their games outside of a very narrow set of criteria, soon/just released game or expansion OR the Christmas holiday season if the game is still "new".  Since it was a third party company who ran the ad server you are asking NCSOFT to pay someone to run ads for one or more of their games, in another of game that is theirs.
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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2023 on: May 14, 2013, 04:26:39 AM »
The best way to get non-Gamers into the MMO fold is T.V.  People that don't play MMOs have little idea of what is out there.  A movie may have a short ad for GW2 before it starts, but that is about it for the West.  WoW had the ONLY T.V. ads I have seen!  Yes, I know it's pricey, but if you ask any non-Gamer what MMO they even know about I would guess WoW would be the answer they would give if they even had one.  Just my 2 infl on that.
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Joshex

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2024 on: May 14, 2013, 04:36:14 AM »
modern administration is so futile.. I see comments of what people have tried and then given up on.. instantly I could come up with better ideas. but they don't take the initiative to do them.. it's like once they become a successful company thier initiative falls asleep on the couch while social light becomes a heavier issue..

doesn't matter how people or other companies think about you as a company or what you do, so long as what you make is truely extra ordinary then people wont care if you are really bat@#$% crazy.

thats what I live by in my game dev, yeah companies may think I'm a bit loopy but I know how to utilize situations allot better than most.

ok enough B.S. what would have I done? put up a bunch of new billboards in atlas and other high visit regions, enough so the players will definitely see them as "hey, that wasn't there before the server update" then put up unauthorized advertisements for big companies and thier products without thier permission. even advertisements for thier competitors so there is no special treatment, then send them links. and say "this isn't permanent, but in the future this space is available for purchase and is viewed by #people every day."

that would be the best way to get bites on that particular marketting ploy.

btw I'm thinking of starting my own marketing agency.. seeing as I happen to know the business inside and out just from having to deal with so many bad ideas that companies made which really ticked me off.

The best way to get non-Gamers into the MMO fold is T.V.  People that don't play MMOs have little idea of what is out there.  A movie may have a short ad for GW2 before it starts, but that is about it for the West.  WoW had the ONLY T.V. ads I have seen!  Yes, I know it's pricey, but if you ask any non-Gamer what MMO they even know about I would guess WoW would be the answer they would give if they even had one.  Just my 2 infl on that.

yeah TV is a good thing, but it's also expensive, in order to run an ad even in one state of the USA not to mention the world costs a ton of money...

so, Although T.V. supplies the most direct route to gaining more gamers it wont be cost effective to reach them all.

so what do? simple utilize your fans, with every physical release of your game supply window decals, stickers and bumper stickers.

sell pins and hats and shirts for cheap, include them as runner up winnings in some sweepstakes for 1000's of people.

make CoH plastic lunchboxes and get in the news by donating them to a orphanage.

there are tons of ways.
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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2025 on: May 14, 2013, 05:05:01 AM »
ok enough B.S. what would have I done? put up a bunch of new billboards in atlas and other high visit regions, enough so the players will definitely see them as "hey, that wasn't there before the server update" then put up unauthorized advertisements for big companies and thier products without thier permission. even advertisements for thier competitors so there is no special treatment, then send them links. and say "this isn't permanent, but in the future this space is available for purchase and is viewed by #people every day."

And as soon as they do that they would have been hit with cease and desist letters from those companies legal departments.

And even if they didn't you are missing the point, offering ad space is meaningless if a company doesn't think advertising there is worth it.  To make it worth it you have to provide numbers about how many unique people see them.  The third party ad company had Paragon insert code for that, and whatever those numbers were, they weren't good enough for what ever was charged to Nike and Nokia.  This is not "Field of Dreams", if Paragon built it there is no guarantee anyone would come.
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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2026 on: May 14, 2013, 05:11:10 AM »
The best way to get non-Gamers into the MMO fold is T.V.  People that don't play MMOs have little idea of what is out there.  A movie may have a short ad for GW2 before it starts, but that is about it for the West.  WoW had the ONLY T.V. ads I have seen!  Yes, I know it's pricey, but if you ask any non-Gamer what MMO they even know about I would guess WoW would be the answer they would give if they even had one.  Just my 2 infl on that.

Yes but Blizzard had dump trucks of money coming in, of course they could do TV commercials.  The only reason Defiance has so many TV spots is because of the TV show that NBC Universal dumped a lot of money in, it's in their best interest for now to run ads for the game, which they funded as well.  Since they own Comcast, the commercial runs during Comcast local ad time as well.
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Floride

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2027 on: May 14, 2013, 05:22:41 AM »
Since it was a third party company who ran the ad server you are asking NCSOFT to pay someone to run ads for one or more of their games, in another of game that is theirs.
Good point. I knew they tried it before but figured they had they're own marketing department doing it, not a 3rd party. After the ad thing went bust, I still think they should've replaced some billboard textures with ads for their other games. Sure, advertising in-game is new ground, but so was CoH back in the day.


I just couldn't NOT tack this pic here! LOL ;D
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NecrotechMaster

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2028 on: May 14, 2013, 06:58:16 AM »
ive seen ads for other games on tv as well (world of tanks, wizard 101, pirate 101 are some recent examples)(not so recent would be toon town)

i actually havent seen a WoW tv commercial since the panda expansion came out yet i see a world of tanks commercial at least once every week

Lightslinger

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2029 on: May 14, 2013, 11:16:34 AM »
ive seen ads for other games on tv as well (world of tanks, wizard 101, pirate 101 are some recent examples)(not so recent would be toon town)

i actually havent seen a WoW tv commercial since the panda expansion came out yet i see a world of tanks commercial at least once every week

The biggest part of the CoH ad-space failure is simply numbers, CoH did not have enough of a playerbase to justify any company spending any money on us. At best an ad in CoH probably would reach 50,000 people. I know there were more players at the time but not all players will see/react to an ad. For a large corporation that's next to nothing, they're focusing on selling things by the million.

Now there are plenty of smaller companies that would love that traffic, however they by nature of being smaller do not have extensive advertising budgets, are not as willing to take a risk on a new advertising technique like MMOs.

I personally would've liked to see them go product placement route, CoH was unique in that it actually would have made the world feel more real and alive to see actual restaurants dotting the city. For a modest fee each restaurant could choose how many locations they wanted around the City. Billboards are fine too, would have probably been more successful if they could make them clickable to launch your default browser and take you to a site to buy it.

dwturducken

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2030 on: May 14, 2013, 11:58:01 AM »
ive seen ads for other games on tv as well (world of tanks, wizard 101, pirate 101 are some recent examples)(not so recent would be toon town)

i actually havent seen a WoW tv commercial since the panda expansion came out yet i see a world of tanks commercial at least once every week

You must be seeing these on more kid-centric networks than the ones I watch. I have a boy who spends a few hours a week watching Cartoon Network, but I don't usually pay all that much attention. My own viewing is primarily network and USA Network, with a little BBCAmerica, and I only saw a couple of WoW ads around the time of the panda expansion launch.

I think there was an ad for the Pirates of the Caribbean game around the time it launched, and that may have only been on ABC, which is owned by Disney.
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Segev

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2031 on: May 14, 2013, 12:55:21 PM »
Technically, it's possible to give free advertising. But you've got to be ludicrously careful. Pick your target well, and be extremely tasteful in advertising their product. It can't be one that would think you're trying to use their trademarks to promote YOUR brand to your audience. It can't be in any way that they would be in any way upset to see their product.

One of the ways Rush Limbaugh (he talked about this last month) got his new model of radio advertising to sell is that he was drinking Snapple one day in his office and said, "This is some great stuff. I'd love to have them as a sponsor, because they make a great product." So, he just started talking them up on the air, and encouraging people to go buy some. At the time, Snapple was a New York company, relatively small, not widely known (and unknown nation-wide). Snapple noticed an uptick in sales, and started investigating. Especially when they started getting calls from outside their distribution region, asking how to get some.

This started people coming to Rush because of proven effectiveness, rather than just based on dollars-per-thousand-who-will-hear-this-ad.

Joshex's suggestion is similar, but poses more problems, because it involves printing and using trademarks in a way other than "conversationally."


Speaking from my perspective, the problem, as I understand it, for the CoH ads was the pay model, as well as the lack of sponsors. The pay model was "per view," and defined a "view" as the ad being on a player's screen for at least half a second. With travel powers et al, people saw it a lot...but zipped by so fast that no "views" were counted.

Were I doing such a thing, I would, first of all, put them in places that people will stare at them for a while because they're stopped. Put them on billboards in loading screens (if your game has such). Put them in places behind Miss Liberty and Quartermasters and other "utility" NPCs around which players gather. Put them in social gathering areas.

But even more importantly, I would probably look into some other effectiveness-measure. I would work with the sponsor to come up with a special deal people could get by entering a code from the ad (radio personalities do this all the time, "Enter offer code 'Rush' for a 10% discount!"). I'd include a small costume bit or new logo people could add to their chest or a re-skinned emote in flavor with the sponsor, if somebody clicks on the ad. I might include a one-per-day-per-ad drop of c-store points for interacting with it in some way (and charge the sponsor per-click). Effectively, getting the sponsor to pay for the c-store points for the player.

But above all, demonstrating effectiveness of the ads is critical. If they get charged for 10,000 clicks per day, but don't see an uptick in sales, nobody will pay for ad space. So tools to make sure that our audience is interested in the ads and helps support us by supporting our sponsors would be important, too.

Lightslinger

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2032 on: May 14, 2013, 01:54:11 PM »
The devs also have to look at ad revenue vs intrusiveness. If the ads are bringing in money but they are hampering the game for players because of how obnoxious they are you will eventually lose players and the ads will no longer bring in money.

The billboards and maybe store locations could be a nice touch, but if you start adding floating ads around trainers, on the loading screen, log in screen, character UI, giving away special items for using the ads...yikes that just sounds stressful.

Also, Rush Limbaugh is probably the worst person in the world to talk about advertising. Hundreds of stations that air his caustic, hateful rants have lost money and sponsors have been running away from him for a long time now. I would personally avoid any company that went out of their way to be associated with his show.

Illusionss

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2033 on: May 14, 2013, 03:02:46 PM »
....Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing about El Rushbo, his mouth that never stops bestowing wisdom upon us unwashed masses and the general kind, caring and informative persona he so oft' displays.






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NecrotechMaster

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2034 on: May 14, 2013, 03:37:20 PM »
You must be seeing these on more kid-centric networks than the ones I watch. I have a boy who spends a few hours a week watching Cartoon Network, but I don't usually pay all that much attention. My own viewing is primarily network and USA Network, with a little BBCAmerica, and I only saw a couple of WoW ads around the time of the panda expansion launch.

I think there was an ad for the Pirates of the Caribbean game around the time it launched, and that may have only been on ABC, which is owned by Disney.

well you are mostly right about that, i watch cartoon network almost all the time lol, i usually watch other channels when nothing good is on cartoon network though but prolly 90% of the time i watch cartoon network (a good portion of that is adult swim)

Segev

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2035 on: May 14, 2013, 03:42:49 PM »
The devs also have to look at ad revenue vs intrusiveness. If the ads are bringing in money but they are hampering the game for players because of how obnoxious they are you will eventually lose players and the ads will no longer bring in money.

The billboards and maybe store locations could be a nice touch, but if you start adding floating ads around trainers, on the loading screen, log in screen, character UI, giving away special items for using the ads...yikes that just sounds stressful.

Also, Rush Limbaugh is probably the worst person in the world to talk about advertising. Hundreds of stations that air his caustic, hateful rants have lost money and sponsors have been running away from him for a long time now. I would personally avoid any company that went out of their way to be associated with his show.
Given that his radio show is actually quite successful, makes him millions while supporting numerous full-time staff, and is aired by many, many affiliates, I find your assertions suspect. Whether you agree with his politics or not (and I do, while clearly you don't), it is pretty silly to claim he's losing money for people who pay for the privilege of having him on their airwaves. KMOX, in St. Louis, is not conservative in the slightest, and looks for excuses to pre-empt his program with just about anything, but they still pay for the privilege of having it.

Also, anybody who accuses him of hate speech doesn't listen to his show, and thus can safely have their opinion of it disregarded.

But we're not here to tear each other apart. All I was doing is pointing out one useful model that supported Joshex's suggestion of doing free advertising to demonstrate your venue's effectiveness.

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2036 on: May 14, 2013, 03:59:02 PM »
Given that his radio show is actually quite successful, makes him millions while supporting numerous full-time staff, and is aired by many, many affiliates, I find your assertions suspect. Whether you agree with his politics or not (and I do, while clearly you don't), it is pretty silly to claim he's losing money for people who pay for the privilege of having him on their airwaves. KMOX, in St. Louis, is not conservative in the slightest, and looks for excuses to pre-empt his program with just about anything, but they still pay for the privilege of having it.

Also, anybody who accuses him of hate speech doesn't listen to his show, and thus can safely have their opinion of it disregarded.

But we're not here to tear each other apart. All I was doing is pointing out one useful model that supported Joshex's suggestion of doing free advertising to demonstrate your venue's effectiveness.

Not going down this rabbit hole, agree to disagree.

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2037 on: May 14, 2013, 04:19:25 PM »
There's a difference here, between Joshex and the example Segev used.  In the case of Rush, he had a huge established audience so any sell through that causes an uptick in sales by simply  mentioning product could be tracked back to him.

We didn't have a large audience to begin with.  The business model that the 3rd party had for games was to sell ads across multiple games as a package deal.  Sort of the way the big web ad server sites work, advertise with us and we can get your ad on these popular sites and the viewing stats for those sites could be examined by anyone.  MMOs generally stopped publishing numbers due to WoW envy, now you could infer size by other means but you were more likely going to have to take this ad server company's word for the population size when you are making your assessment on if you are going to advertise through them or not.

Oh and for those who forgot or came after the attempt at ads ended

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/04/03/in-game-advertising-headed-to-cox/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/01/19/is-city-of-heroes-in-game-advertising-missing-its-mark/

Edit: Oh and here's a story about what happened to that ad company

http://www.reloadedadvertising.com/what-happened-to-iga-wordwide-and-double-fusion/
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Illusionss

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2038 on: May 14, 2013, 04:38:55 PM »
Quote
Also, anybody who accuses him of hate speech doesn't listen to his show, and thus can safely have their opinion of it disregarded.

Dude, this is the same guy who opined that he wished that all abortions were performed via intervaginal gunshot. I have to listen to him any time I am at my mother's house, I am well aware of what he is and what he does.

With that said, agree to disagree and all that.

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2039 on: May 14, 2013, 05:33:19 PM »
Given that his radio show is actually quite successful, makes him millions while supporting numerous full-time staff, and is aired by many, many affiliates, I find your assertions suspect.
He may still be doing better than most syndicated radio shows, but he's heading downhill pretty fast these days.

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