Flash Season 3

[Tenzhi]

He'd already been in "Once Bitten" the year before the Three Amigo's came out.

Alright, that barely qualifies him for mote status.

[eabrace]

Though didn't Jay say Savitar was the first of them to get super speed?

He may have, but I don't remember that.

[Tenzhi]

I miss Snart.

Shipp's Jay Garrick gets better every time I see it... even if he's getting a little slow in his golden age.  That line still makes me grin.

And ugh... stupid CW relationships...

[doc7924]

Now I think Savitar is Barry, in the future.

Savitar said something last time only Barry and Cisco would know - what Reverb said to Cisco on E2.
He also said he has lived through all this already - and Barry was there when he was created, which would be soon. So maybe Iris's death is a loop that creates himself?
Plus Savitar has big ties to Flashpoint apparently.
And they have a "Future Flash" arc in the comics where Barry goes nuts in the future and does a whole lot of nasty stuff.

Second guess has to Wally. Most things also fit and maybe he knows what happen on E2 from being in the Speed Force.

Longshot is HR, since he is the only one I know that calls Wally "Wallace". Not sure how that would happen though.

But Jay said Savitar was the first of them (speedsters) to get super speed. And Jay seems to be doing it a long time, longer then Barry at least.
So maybe Jay being trapped is what turns him into Savitar.

At least I know we wont find out next week.

[Excidia]

Longshot is HR, since he is the only one I know that calls Wally "Wallace". Not sure how that would happen though.

I noticed that in the previous episode recap last night and started thinking about HR.  Him becoming Savitar would follow the show's preference for making a friend the enemy.  So here's my thought:

HR overdoses on septuple espressos and spontaneously gains a link to the speed force.  At first it's minor but gradually increases and requires an equal increase in espressos to maintain his link.  Once they notice the radical increase in the Star Labs coffee bill, the gang tries to stop him, or at least get him to drink decaff.  HR goes insane, names himself Savitar and eventually drinks the entire world's supply of coffee.  This causes his powers to falter and Barry is able to capture and imprison him within the speed force.  Within the speed force, HR finds he can see and influence all of time so starts setting up events leading to the Alchemy cult which eventually frees him.  Once the gang realizes what has happened, Cisco vibes HR back to earth 19 where there is no coffee.  He loses his powers completely and starts a company that makes energy drinks trying to find the exact formula that will restore his powers.

-e

[Super Firebug]

Longshot is HR, since he is the only one I know that calls Wally "Wallace". Not sure how that would happen though.

I was just going to comment on that very point. H.R.'s the only one, that we've met, who calls him "Wallace". I was thinking that, maybe, H.R. might be the Reverse Flash from season 1, passing himself off as a different Wells. But Thawne lost the Wells "overlay" just before he was deleted from existence. And I don't even know how he'd have survived, to begin with.

[doc7924]

I was just going to comment on that very point. H.R.'s the only one, that we've met, who calls him "Wallace". I was thinking that, maybe, H.R. might be the Reverse Flash from season 1, passing himself off as a different Wells. But Thawne lost the Wells "overlay" just before he was deleted from existence. And I don't even know how he'd have survived, to begin with.

I still don't get how Eoabard can exist at all, even in Legends as a 'time remnant'. He IMMEDIATLEY vanished, since he never could have been born. It's not like Marty where it took time for him to start vanishing, or letting time catch up with him. And there should always have been a Flashpoint event as soon as Eoabard was wiped, since he no longer existed to kill Barry's mom. Nothing from that first season should have even happened, if they did the time travel right.

[Vee]

He loses his powers completely and starts a company that makes energy drinks trying to find the exact formula that will restore his powers.

-e

I think a crossover with iZombie where he tweaks the max rager formula is in order.

[Mandu]

I still don't get how Eoabard can exist at all, even in Legends as a 'time remnant'. He IMMEDIATLEY vanished, since he never could have been born. It's not like Marty where it took time for him to start vanishing, or letting time catch up with him. And there should always have been a Flashpoint event as soon as Eoabard was wiped, since he no longer existed to kill Barry's mom. Nothing from that first season should have even happened, if they did the time travel right.

This is an earlier time point Eobard.  Sort of a Flashpoint version who found out what was going to happen to him in the future.  All of the parallel time lines still exist for a period of time after the past being changed eliminates them.  That is why on Legends we get changes that gradually phase into existence like Stein's daughter or phase out of existence like Ray and Nate losing their previous knowledge and abilities due to Star Wars not happening.  When faced with being wiped from the timeline Eobard fled to a different timeline since speedsters are able to do that without a time ship.  Speedsters interact with time change differently than mere mortals due to being tied into the eternal speed force.  Normal propagation of the time change isn't able to wipe him out so the speedforce itself is using its enforcers to correct the aberration.

And the reason that the future Eobard vanished the moment Eddie shot himself is because at that moment there was an open portal to his own time that effectively linked those two time periods so that the timeline change was instantly able to affect the future and didn't have to travel there as a time wave. It wasn't a propagation effect but rather an instantaneous change.

I swear I could make a career of explaining ways around the writer's inconsistencies.

[doc7924]

This is an earlier time point Eobard.  Sort of a Flashpoint version who found out what was going to happen to him in the future.  All of the parallel time lines still exist for a period of time after the past being changed eliminates them.  That is why on Legends we get changes that gradually phase into existence like Stein's daughter or phase out of existence like Ray and Nate losing their previous knowledge and abilities due to Star Wars not happening.  When faced with being wiped from the timeline Eobard fled to a different timeline since speedsters are able to do that without a time ship.  Speedsters interact with time change differently than mere mortals due to being tied into the eternal speed force.  Normal propagation of the time change isn't able to wipe him out so the speedforce itself is using its enforcers to correct the aberration.

And the reason that the future Eobard vanished the moment Eddie shot himself is because at that moment there was an open portal to his own time that effectively linked those two time periods so that the timeline change was instantly able to affect the future and didn't have to travel there as a time wave. It wasn't a propagation effect but rather an instantaneous change.

I swear I could make a career of explaining ways around the writer's inconsistencies.

I get that this RF being a time ghost or whatever from Flashpoint makes sense. Barry pulled him from time, changed it and then brought him back to a timeline he never existed in. If that was the only thing - I would have no problem.

My 'thing' is the original event where Thawne's ancestor was removed from history - everything that he did should never have happened in the first place if he was never born.
He never would be born to come back and kill Barry's mom, the original Wells should have been alive and well, and no one but Barry should have remembered anything that happened with RF.
But everyone still remembers RF, the fake Wells, the real Wells is dead, etc. He even left a video confessing. That just made me scratch my head.

Now I will give them a break as they had that massive wormhole that tore the fabric of space-time at the end, so at least Eddies death caused something cosmic to happen.

But still my favorite show on right now.

[Tenzhi]

Nature abhors a paradox.  Eobard (and the relevant events) had to have existed in order to culminate in his erasure.  If his erasure prevented his erasure, then it couldn't prevent his erasure.  In order to avoid a paradox headache, then, Eobard's existence has to be a sort of closed paradox loop.

[doc7924]

Nature abhors a paradox.  Eobard (and the relevant events) had to have existed in order to culminate in his erasure.  If his erasure prevented his erasure, then it couldn't prevent his erasure.  In order to avoid a paradox headache, then, Eobard's existence has to be a sort of closed paradox loop.

This is what I thought caused that wormhole at the end. The inconsistency of him not existing, yet existing at the same tine.

They could be heading in the same direction with Savitar. If they stop him from killing Iris, then Barry couldn't have seen that happen in the future, so they have no reason to know he would kill Iris. and so on.

My only thing is in other episodes that had time travel, they did it right. So they are very inconsistent in how they portray changing the past.

[Super Firebug]

Not really looking forward to tonight's episode. I hate gimmicks, and this is the kind of gimmick that some shows would pull during ratings weeks.

[Tenzhi]

I'm looking forward to it.  I enjoy a good musical episode, but I fully expect this to be a laughable train wreck.

[Super Firebug]

I'll just say: Arrow had its throw-away episode for the season, and now The Flash has had its. :/

[Vee]

Plenty of throw-aways, now if only one of these shows would have a keeper. But at least the music was only in Flash. I'd have been way more annoyed if i had to keep skipping forward in both shows.

[Tenzhi]

That was... not musical enough.

The two original songs were okay, though Gustin oddly sounded a bit country in the last one.  The unoriginal songs were just disappointing.  And the singing and dancing needed to be more tied into what they were calling a story in order to give it a proper musical feel.

[doc7924]

Music Meister by behind. That had to be Mxplt..Myxtlp.....that 5th Dimensional Imp. All the stuff he can do fits his MO. And he said something like they wouldn't understand or believe where he is from. Its the only way he can know everything he knows about everyone, existing in another dimension looking in.

 Though why he tried to rob the bank I don't know. Just havin fun I guess.

[Vee]

Probably someone else from the 5th dimension, maybe even Marilyn McCoo.

[Tenzhi]

Music Meister by behind. That had to be Mxplt..Myxtlp.....that 5th Dimensional Imp. All the stuff he can do fits his MO. And he said something like they wouldn't understand or believe where he is from. Its the only way he can know everything he knows about everyone, existing in another dimension looking in.

 Though why he tried to rob the bank I don't know. Just havin fun I guess.

Mxyzptlk already showed up in his own episode on Supergirl.