New efforts!

[pinballdave]

I had a Bot/Sonic that worked fairly well.  With masterminds you can always use all the sonic powers whether in a team or solo which improves the useability of the set.  And since you are basically a ranged fighter with Bots, Repulsion is useful as a keepaway (particularly when solo).

Also, for powergaming edge-case nutburgers: Stacked Clarity + Dispersion + Granite = a tank that Reichsman can't kill (a defender with empathy can do that to, but if you're going to try to duo Reichsman you'll want the -res).

I had a Sonic/sonic defender when the set first came out. The sonic bubbles got the cosmetic makeover and there were no more complaints about headaches. Everybody loved the orange buffs. I thought the sonic set was very effective. It was more active than forcefields. The mezz protection was nice. The #1 ability was the sonic tu-tu, sonic disruption. The abilities stacked with all the defender buffs and debuffs. Liquefy was tier 9, it was optional, but it was better than the forumites reported.

When the set was proliferated to masterminds, I rolled up a banshee themed necro-sonic and a dead rockstar demon-sonic. Demon-sonic was a powerhouse. The demon buffs compounded with the mastermind-level sonic buffs was amazing paired with a boss-pet sporting the sonic tu-tu. I was concerned early on if there would be enough mitigation to go with the sonic debuff. I am repeating, but it was really powerful.

[Codewalker]

I do recall experimenting as srmalloy did and ended up with the same conclusion. The NPCs almost always got an attack off. Whatever the delay was, it was short enough for the NPC to get an attack off.

These experiments are tricky to perform

I could pretty reliably joust critters using superspeed, a well-timed jump with sufficient momentum to bypass movement suppression, and a ranged attack at max (unenhanced) range without them being able to get a retaliatory attack off. Since critter ranged attacks typically have longer range than player powers, that means there is a definite 'think' interval that is long enough to take advantage of.

I highly doubt it would be possible to gain enough momentum to do that with a melee attack, unless the critter didn't have any ranged attacks at all (few and far between), or you could otherwise confuse the AI into choosing the wrong power to try to use as Arcana describes.

Interestingly, in a variation of the test series, I had a Hidden Stalker stand right next to the target critter but otherwise do nothing. With that setup, the critter always got a shot off at me before I coasted out of range, instead of only rarely managing it. This suggests that the AI think interval of unalerted critters is dynamic and based on the proximity of players, whether the critter can perceive them or not. That makes sense as a performance optimization.

[brothermutant]

I had a Sonic/sonic defender when the set first came out. The sonic bubbles got the cosmetic makeover and there were no more complaints about headaches. Everybody loved the orange buffs. I thought the sonic set was very effective. It was more active than forcefields. The mezz protection was nice. The #1 ability was the sonic tu-tu, sonic disruption. The abilities stacked with all the defender buffs and debuffs. Liquefy was tier 9, it was optional, but it was better than the forumites reported.

Ah, the hula hoop of doom. Loved that move on the tank/main scrapper. That power alone made things die so much faster it was like easy street. Since Sonic got the Res Debuffs, I wished they would have given Force Fields a -Def move or two. I really didn't like that our Force Bubble was like Storms Hurricane but without the ToHit Debuff. FF really got shafted compared to other secondaries for Trollers. Still was a much loved set for me though (always liked a Telekinetic-like toon so Grav/FF Troller and later a FF/Energy Blast Defender were a couple of my solo toons).

Personally, I wish the "cage" that Sonic and FF had was more of a single target Hold (make it a good Mag strength too). The effect would be an energy ring around the target while it was active. As someone mentioned above, the "cage" was a great griefing tool for those of us that wanted to slow down the killing. If the devs insisted on keeping the cage move, I would ask that the effect not last so long, maybe half of its current duration, maybe even less. I mean, most of us didn't need a lot of time to clean house in a normal size room, but it was nicer to do it knowing that the boss/LT was not also going to gank us immediately, with the help of his minions. Removing that one hard hitting enemy really increases a team's survivability dramatically, especially with no healer on the team.

Can't tell you the number of times I shouted "Level 50 troller" or "defender" for teaming, getting a team invite only to have the team say "Oh, we need a healer". Try as I might to point out that I was better than a healer because I can get most of the team to soft capped defenses (only hit on average 10% of the time IIRC), they rarely kept me when a healer announced they would help. 

[Auroxis]

Can't tell you the number of times I shouted "Level 50 troller" or "defender" for teaming, getting a team invite only to have the team say "Oh, we need a healer". Try as I might to point out that I was better than a healer because I can get most of the team to soft capped defenses (only hit on average 10% of the time IIRC), they rarely kept me when a healer announced they would help. 

There were so many times I barely even used my Heals as an Empathy defender because Fortitude was so strong, and got the compliment of "Nice heals".

People just didn't notice buffs and debuffs as much as they noticed those shiny green numbers.

[pinballdave]

Brothermutant: I often described to teammates that the hula-hoop was like freezing rain - but PERSISTENT. Force Bubble was situational, but the player looked for the situations. One of the best was pushing the greater part of a spawn into a denial of line of sight so the team could pummel a minority number of foes first. The cage was situational, too. My favorite use was the towers next to Lord Recluse in the Statesman TF. With communication as in the Force Bubble usage, you could 'suspend' one of the towers while the team worked on the announced target. It really did help out.

I relish the Reichsman where our team had 3 buff/debuffers: sonic, forcefield and storm. The storm was really edgy, said he could NOT and would NOT be expected to heal for the whole team. Somehow, the other five bought into the mitigation abilities of forcefield and sonic. The stormy DID use heal from time to time to shore up the bubbler and the sonic, but that group waxed that TF. Freezy rain + hula hoop FTW!!

Personally, I find the comparison between clear mind and the dispersion bubbles as ludicrous. The bubbler pre-emptively protect from mezz. I also found it ludicrous that blasters and ranged teammates would not stay in 'dispersion range' outside of melee range to enjoy the protection.

[worldweary]

Sonic sounds like it was used much more than i thought.Reading about it combined with Earth or MM's makes me wonder
why I did't try it.Back to mid's

[brothermutant]

Brothermutant: I often described to teammates that the hula-hoop was like freezing rain - but PERSISTENT. Force Bubble was situational, but the player looked for the situations. One of the best was pushing the greater part of a spawn into a denial of line of sight so the team could pummel a minority number of foes first. The cage was situational, too. My favorite use was the towers next to Lord Recluse in the Statesman TF. With communication as in the Force Bubble usage, you could 'suspend' one of the towers while the team worked on the announced target. It really did help out.

I relish the Reichsman where our team had 3 buff/debuffers: sonic, forcefield and storm. The storm was really edgy, said he could NOT and would NOT be expected to heal for the whole team. Somehow, the other five bought into the mitigation abilities of forcefield and sonic. The stormy DID use heal from time to time to shore up the bubbler and the sonic, but that group waxed that TF. Freezy rain + hula hoop FTW!!

Personally, I find the comparison between clear mind and the dispersion bubbles as ludicrous. The bubbler pre-emptively protect from mezz. I also found it ludicrous that blasters and ranged teammates would not stay in 'dispersion range' outside of melee range to enjoy the protection.

Bet that was an awesome team up. Here's one for the mez protection found in Sonic and FF, how many times did you have Disp bub on while rezzing someone, have them get up and immediately run out of the mez protection to get rez mezz stunned again? Classic.

[LaughingAlex]

Ah, the hula hoop of doom. Loved that move on the tank/main scrapper. That power alone made things die so much faster it was like easy street. Since Sonic got the Res Debuffs, I wished they would have given Force Fields a -Def move or two. I really didn't like that our Force Bubble was like Storms Hurricane but without the ToHit Debuff. FF really got shafted compared to other secondaries for Trollers. Still was a much loved set for me though (always liked a Telekinetic-like toon so Grav/FF Troller and later a FF/Energy Blast Defender were a couple of my solo toons).

Personally, I wish the "cage" that Sonic and FF had was more of a single target Hold (make it a good Mag strength too). The effect would be an energy ring around the target while it was active. As someone mentioned above, the "cage" was a great griefing tool for those of us that wanted to slow down the killing. If the devs insisted on keeping the cage move, I would ask that the effect not last so long, maybe half of its current duration, maybe even less. I mean, most of us didn't need a lot of time to clean house in a normal size room, but it was nicer to do it knowing that the boss/LT was not also going to gank us immediately, with the help of his minions. Removing that one hard hitting enemy really increases a team's survivability dramatically, especially with no healer on the team.

Can't tell you the number of times I shouted "Level 50 troller" or "defender" for teaming, getting a team invite only to have the team say "Oh, we need a healer". Try as I might to point out that I was better than a healer because I can get most of the team to soft capped defenses (only hit on average 10% of the time IIRC), they rarely kept me when a healer announced they would help. 

YEah alot of scrubs/noobs out there never learned city of heroes, not matter how much they'd played.  Often I'd see similar  to others even on my time manipulator, someone would say "nice heals" even when almost no healing was being done.  It often makes me joke about many mmorpg players; they are both stubborn, imperceptive, and as horribly uncreative as very imitative insects.

But alas joking aside, there were those who had enough of an open mind to appreciate the buffs/debuffs/crowd control.  Amazingly enough those were the ones that stuck around in city of heroes and they tend to stick around non-trinity games until changes boot the non-trinity stuff out by some incompetent developer(looking at you, CO).

[worldweary]

Made a build for gravity/sonic and few others in the build section any thoughts to make it better would be helpful.
Sonic will definitely be in multiple toons I have when the game is back.

[pinballdave]

Made a build for gravity/sonic and few others in the build section any thoughts to make it better would be helpful.
Sonic will definitely be in multiple toons I have when the game is back.

I have the opinion you would want to use the disruption field on a melee pet when you are not in a group. Singularity is not the highest recommended pet to do that with the constant repel and how it stay at ranges. I like your first suggestion: earth/sonic where Rocky wear the hulahoop of doom while pummeling targets in the -defense quicksand - mm, debuff. Fire/sonic tickles my fancy, too.

[worldweary]

Thanks.I did't think of that.I'll change a few things.

[Arcana]

I could pretty reliably joust critters using superspeed, a well-timed jump with sufficient momentum to bypass movement suppression, and a ranged attack at max (unenhanced) range without them being able to get a retaliatory attack off. Since critter ranged attacks typically have longer range than player powers, that means there is a definite 'think' interval that is long enough to take advantage of.

Probably the best way to "beat" movement suppression when attempting to test weird things was to wait for winter.

As an aside, to the best of my knowledge I invented the game of "set off nova over the heads of spawn while being really really far away when it detonates" on ice fields.

I highly doubt it would be possible to gain enough momentum to do that with a melee attack, unless the critter didn't have any ranged attacks at all (few and far between), or you could otherwise confuse the AI into choosing the wrong power to try to use as Arcana describes.

What you can do is enter the range of the critter's ranged attack, let it fire, then try to zip past it in melee range to see if it can get a melee attack off.  That would perform the academic test of whether the critter has a finite reaction time for melee attacks (really, that the server is polling when to see if the critter can attack).

I should also point out that all tests anyone performed before I18 and after I18 cannot be generalized together because critter AI changed around that time.  How they behaved before and after was somewhat different in terms of how they selected and executed attacks.

[worldweary]

Rude introductions... I remember playing the Katie Hannon TF on a scrapper with a KB protection of 4 points and needing to defeat Mary MacComber 10x.  Got skipped on land like a flat stone on water, through and into neighboring mobs, drawing more aggro than the team could handle.  It was so much fun!

Ok this is making me think I'll need to up my KB protection.Most of my Controller builds use hover to help this but certain powers
you have to be on the ground to use.I forgot the Katie Hannon TF ,Banished Pantheon,and Tsoo had so much KB.Now I need to
find another slot or 2.

[Noyjitat]

Storm was an awesome set. Players' abilities to use storm or have the disposition to use knockback was the driving emphasis behind the success of a stormer. As in all ability synergy, having a team that plays with the advantages of as many abilities available make for more successful campaigns.

I never understood  the playstyle where stormers would push foes out of the freezing rain with gale, hurricane or other kb. Stormies and Dark defenders oozed synergy with the slows and -resistances. Everything focused on piling the bodies in the tar patch of rain. When you had taunters that bought into that, everybody won.

Devastation chance for hold in lightning storm was alotta lolz. Tornado however I always wanted to be replaced with waterspout or scirocco's dust devils.

[Mistress Bloodwrath]

Devastation chance for hold in lightning storm was alotta lolz. Tornado however I always wanted to be replaced with waterspout or scirocco's dust devils.

Oh yeah, Scirocco had some pretty badass attacks.

[worldweary]

Devastation chance for hold in lightning storm was alotta lolz. Tornado however I always wanted to be replaced with waterspout or scirocco's dust devils.

Overwhelming Force made tornado better than waterspout.It became another pet because you could easily make it permanent.
I used both waterspout and tornado in my Illusion/Storm/Leviathan.

[pinballdave]

Blockbuster IO KB to KD was sooo awesome for stormies  and bonfire

[worldweary]

Yes in Bonfire it's to good.Which is why I try not to add it.I don't want to make the fights to easy.
While I'm thinking about I want to ask if most of you use recharge on your controller builds or do
a combination recharge,def,res?There are certain builds I'm just not sure what should be my main
goal.

[hejtmane]

There were so many times I barely even used my Heals as an Empathy defender because Fortitude was so strong, and got the compliment of "Nice heals".

People just didn't notice buffs and debuffs as much as they noticed those shiny green numbers.

Except the ones that knew the game. I would always brag about the other sets in PUGs I got so tired of people that where like we do not have heals on pug TF's I be like um we are fine and I would be the tank as a scrapper haha. It amazed me how many people be shocked that we would blew through a TF with out am empathy defender or a tank

[Noyjitat]

Overwhelming Force made tornado better than waterspout.It became another pet because you could easily make it permanent.
I used both waterspout and tornado in my Illusion/Storm/Leviathan.

I want to say that my storm/elec defender had it as well. I don't recall if my recharge was high enough for perma waterspout but I did have 3 tornadoes for a short time.