Author Topic: Question for you computer techy peoples...  (Read 2197 times)

Shenku

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Question for you computer techy peoples...
« on: December 29, 2014, 09:21:50 PM »
This is quite possibly a very stupid question, and I've tried searching for an answer already, but I'm having trouble finding an answer to exactly what I'm asking...

I have a laptop that recently died (processor cooling fan crapped out) that was running Windows 8, and I have a working Desktop with Windows XP (32bit), but what I want to know is, if I put the HDD from the laptop into my external enclosure and try to boot off of it on the Desktop, how would I go about making it work?

Most things I found when searching only say to change the boot order of the drives, but they don't address anything after that, and a previous attempt of mine with an older laptop HDD with Vista ended with boot errors, forced me into a recovery mode to fix said boot errors, failed to fix said boot errors and instead made it worse, and now it doesn't even work, telling me to use the install disk to repair, which the laptop didn't come with... I'm worried I might get a similar issue with the Windows 8 HDD, because it too has no install disk(only a virtual recovery drive partition).

I know my best option would be to just get a new computer/laptop, but I'm unemployed at present and can't afford to buy one, and the software I'm using for some stuff needs to be running on a 64bit OS, or it just won't run.... For the moment, I'm stuck with what I have and just need to make it work...

Ideas...?

Eoraptor

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Re: Question for you computer techy peoples...
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2014, 12:19:10 PM »
you wouldn't.

the xp box is 32 bits, the hard drive and its OS is encoded for 64 bits. the xp computer's processor will not understand the instructions on the 64 bit hard drive. the best you'll be able to do is hook it up as an external storage drive and get your data off of it. even if, by some obscure situation, your windows 8 computer was 32 bit, windows 8's processing requirements are for multiple cores and multi-channel ddr3 ram. it would be a horrendous experience to try to use it for more than a few minutes at a time.

sometimes you just have to accept that you're poor and trying to do something you cant afford to do right will just fuck things up more than accepting that fact
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Ironwolf

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Re: Question for you computer techy peoples...
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2014, 02:36:05 PM »
This is quite possibly a very stupid question, and I've tried searching for an answer already, but I'm having trouble finding an answer to exactly what I'm asking...

I have a laptop that recently died (processor cooling fan crapped out) that was running Windows 8, and I have a working Desktop with Windows XP (32bit), but what I want to know is, if I put the HDD from the laptop into my external enclosure and try to boot off of it on the Desktop, how would I go about making it work?

Most things I found when searching only say to change the boot order of the drives, but they don't address anything after that, and a previous attempt of mine with an older laptop HDD with Vista ended with boot errors, forced me into a recovery mode to fix said boot errors, failed to fix said boot errors and instead made it worse, and now it doesn't even work, telling me to use the install disk to repair, which the laptop didn't come with... I'm worried I might get a similar issue with the Windows 8 HDD, because it too has no install disk(only a virtual recovery drive partition).

I know my best option would be to just get a new computer/laptop, but I'm unemployed at present and can't afford to buy one, and the software I'm using for some stuff needs to be running on a 64bit OS, or it just won't run.... For the moment, I'm stuck with what I have and just need to make it work...

Ideas...?

My idea would be to buy a new fan for the laptop - they are very easy to replace - most of the time you only need to remove the keyboard.

In fact if you give me the manufacturer and model number I will look up the fan for you and find the manual to swap it and may even foot the bill for the fan - they are usually under $20.

Shenku

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Re: Question for you computer techy peoples...
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2014, 07:54:04 PM »
you wouldn't.

the xp box is 32 bits, the hard drive and its OS is encoded for 64 bits. the xp computer's processor will not understand the instructions on the 64 bit hard drive. the best you'll be able to do is hook it up as an external storage drive and get your data off of it. even if, by some obscure situation, your windows 8 computer was 32 bit, windows 8's processing requirements are for multiple cores and multi-channel ddr3 ram. it would be a horrendous experience to try to use it for more than a few minutes at a time.

sometimes you just have to accept that you're poor and trying to do something you cant afford to do right will just pancake things up more than accepting that fact

I probably should have mentioned it, but it's a home-built desktop, and it does have a 64bit processor (AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5200+ 2.61GHz), so in theory I would have thought the processor should not be an issue. The 32bit OS was an oversight on the part of my brother who helped me pick everything out to build it at the time. It's also got 4 Gigs of RAM, and an NVidia Geforce 9800GTX+ Graphics Card, so while maybe not the best or most powerful PC, it's not too bad either...

And Ironwolf, I thank you for the offer, but if it comes to that I'll find some way to pay for it myself, even if I have to start selling some of my old games to the crooks at Gamestop... I was considering just buying a fan myself anyways, but just wasn't sure if it'd be worth it incase some other components had gone bad from the thing overheating while I was trying to pull some files off of the thing...

microc

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Re: Question for you computer techy peoples...
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2014, 12:04:01 AM »
on older laptop google the model number and class action lawsuits. a lot of them had bad system boards/heat issues/bad nvidia video chipsets. you may be lucky and be covered under one.

dwturducken

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Re: Question for you computer techy peoples...
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2014, 02:44:34 AM »
Given the description, I'm assuming that the fan wasn't the death of the laptop, rather than the repeated overheating of the proc after the fan failed.

The real issue would likely be hardware differences between the two instances of Windows. I have no idea how W8 would respond, but it's likely that the real issue would be one of authentication. Specifically, the W8 boot would recognize that the proc was different from the original install, causing a mismatch with the CD Key for the W8 install.

The laptop can likely be repaired by also replacing the processor. Depending on the age of the laptop, you may be stuck taking your chances on eBay for a replacement, but it "should" be as simple a new processor and fan to get the laptop up and running.

And, it's time to upgrade that desktop to Windows 7. Just sayin'.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Tahquitz

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Re: Question for you computer techy peoples...
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2015, 04:48:25 AM »
This is quite possibly a very stupid question, and I've tried searching for an answer already, but I'm having trouble finding an answer to exactly what I'm asking...

I have a laptop that recently died (processor cooling fan crapped out) that was running Windows 8, and I have a working Desktop with Windows XP (32bit), but what I want to know is, if I put the HDD from the laptop into my external enclosure and try to boot off of it on the Desktop, how would I go about making it work?

Most things I found when searching only say to change the boot order of the drives, but they don't address anything after that, and a previous attempt of mine with an older laptop HDD with Vista ended with boot errors, forced me into a recovery mode to fix said boot errors, failed to fix said boot errors and instead made it worse, and now it doesn't even work, telling me to use the install disk to repair, which the laptop didn't come with... I'm worried I might get a similar issue with the Windows 8 HDD, because it too has no install disk(only a virtual recovery drive partition).

I know my best option would be to just get a new computer/laptop, but I'm unemployed at present and can't afford to buy one, and the software I'm using for some stuff needs to be running on a 64bit OS, or it just won't run.... For the moment, I'm stuck with what I have and just need to make it work...

Ideas...?

Answering the question directly: The Operating System on the donor hard drive will not boot the computer.  Even if they had architecture parity (32-to-32 bit or 64-to-64 bit), the "magic" of the Windows Installation process is the hardware compatibility list.  Most of the drivers in Windows that are put in during the installation process are system level ones specific to your computer's processor, motherboard, front side and back side bus, and other drivers. 

Why does this matter?  Starting with XP, the hardware drivers that weren't expected to change have no easy or predictable mechanism to be removed and reinstalled.  (This isn't absolute of course, and some hobbyists may have finagled Windows to activate when it shouldn't, but it's still significant enough that 1 or 2 wrong drivers can BSOD you before boot even occurs.  Is the effort worth it?)  You might get lucky if it's an OEM disc where the Hardware Compatibility List is cherry picked to that vendor's product lines and we're talking the same OEM on your desktop and laptop (i.e.: Dell Laptop and Dell Desktop.)  But even then, the distance apart from when both were purchased may make enough of a difference not to work either.

And while mentioning OEM, if your desktop and laptop are from different makers, using an OEM Copy of Windows on a different system is against the license terms (Microsoft made it clear: Laptop copies of Windows sold with laptop machines "live and die" with the computer.  There is no right to move Windows from an OEM machine to another one.)  I'm not going to say "illegal", I have yet to see someone I know get shaken down by the fuzz for one pilfered copy of Windows, but if it fails to activate, at least you know why.

My advice?  Depends on what you're after when you say "make it work"...

-- Do you want your files back on the XP machine?  You don't need to boot your laptop hard drive to pull that off. NTFS has been supported since Windows 2000.  Just put the laptop hard drive into an enclosure, and plug it into your booted XP system.  (Be aware that larger hard drives past 2TB may not be readable.)

-- Do you want to make the hard drive a part of your desktop?  You can add it into your desktop (even if it's the 2.5" variety, adapter plates are available for SSD Drives in desktops: they accomplish the same goal), erase the contents and enjoy some more space.  Granted, the same disclaimer about 2TB drives applies from above.

-- Do you want to install Windows 7/8 on your desktop?  I might get static for saying this from FatherXMas (who is far better at this stuff than I am: I do work in IT for a living, but I'm a generalist at best.)  If you are still into gaming, you could try to eke out another year or two from the system by installing Windows 7 on it, but with older "64-bit" hardware you might get more reliable performance out of it forcing it down to a 32-bit installation.  A smaller memory footprint may work better for you on that machine.  It's a sacrifice based on your 64-bit apps that you like, but at least you can play something.  (And with 4GB, it's doable, but you'll hit some pretty frequent walls with that little memory these days.) 

Bear in mind that the emphasis here is on the term "eke".  High-end GeForce 8XXX/9XXX cards are now the low-end of the stick concerning most games and in a few more generations, they will be excluded from newer titles.  Not to mention other equipment going out/down (memory, current Hard Drive, Power Supply.)  Are you comfortable fixing parts of your desktop piecemeal when it happens? And more importantly, IF you can fix it?  Especially with power supplies: when they go down, they often take other parts with them.  This may sound like excess FUD, but the older a PC gets, the more likely it is to happen.

Would $99 for Windows work to keep it running for another year?  Perhaps.  Would putting it away, then drudging through with what you have and putting more and money away until a windfall comes to let you buy a ~$400 pre-made creampuff you can upgrade later into a respectable gaming system make more sense?  (Especially refurbished: They're out there.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4GH2C45532.  You might want to slap a better card for graphics in it, but at least you can.) And if you have a monitor that's higher than 1366 x 768 (I know, that's a crap size, but it's functional for crying out loud), just reuse your KVM from your prior desktop.

I'm not trying to confuse you: you always have options.  Even if you don't like what's in front of you right now.  My vote?  Laptop repair sucks... I've got big hands, and the wrong amount of pressure breaks un-replaceable plastic joints in a snap cover.  (It'll work when you're finished, but it may not come back together 100%, ruining portability and airflow.  Just wait.

I can already hear the replies, "You're supposed to do it slowly and be careful."  Want it in COH terms?  My heart is that of a blaster; I didn't cry in Trigun when Wolfwood died (Spoiler alert?  Bah, it's been almost 20 years), nor when Rem died in space trying to save everyone.  I cried when the Angel Gun was fired for the last time at Knives.  Any blaster would.

Point is, I'm not the careful type. 
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 05:09:39 AM by Tahquitz »
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Shenku

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Re: Question for you computer techy peoples...
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2015, 12:15:21 AM »
Thanks for the detailed reply.

I'm starting a new job next week, so I think I'm just going to start setting some money aside once I start getting paid, and see what I get back once I do my taxes since that season is coming up now, and start looking from there for a replacement laptop. Maybe a Desktop too, because it is well past time to upgrade...

Paragon Avenger

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Re: Question for you computer techy peoples...
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2015, 06:30:40 AM »
Did you try rebooting?

That's what they always ask.