"...a realignment of company focus"

[Turjan]

Just to throw a little more oil on the fire (what, wait - there can be more?) I'm afraid I couldn't resist the urge to truncate the statement "NCSoft to Introduce Western Gamers to Asian Martial Arts Fantasy with Blade & Soul" in a way that adds a new sniggerworthy conotation to the imagery...

Of course, such a satirical comedic twist is not the kind of thing to put in a serious article, obviously, but I do wonder what the Colberts and Stewarts of the world might make of this particular minor misplacement of inverted commas?

[TimtheEnchanter]

Yeah, we all know there's a big pedophile subculture in Asia... and sure, I can see how that tilted hip stance being applied to a prepubescent girl is slightly inappropriate. Still, I don't think we're quite in the realm of 'lolicon hentai' (not until players come along and use those characters for their cybersex "roleplay")

Wasn't there a video featuring some of the emotes these B&S girls can do? I seemed to remember it was very unnecessarily flirty. Another paradox of the anti-pedo thing, really. Seems the "non-kids" can tease and flirt all they want, as long as they don't actually engage in anything elicit.

[Moonfyire101]

Yeah, we all know there's a big pedophile subculture in Asia... and sure, I can see how that tilted hip stance being applied to a prepubescent girl is slightly inappropriate. Still, I don't think we're quite in the realm of 'lolicon hentai' (not until players come along and use those characters for their cybersex "roleplay").

This may read wrong, but I like how you all are pushing this angle out in the wild mostly because it is a tiny bit disingenuous, and plays on the ignorance of the general audience. After all, the female form in CoH is not nearly as flexible as the male(s) (you get a slider between buxom and waif, essentially), and if you put a female in walk mode she may not move quite as contortedly as the ones in B&S, but it's anything but conservative. Damned if I don't appreciate the effect of juxtaposing a superhero draped in the American flag against a bunch of unwholesome-looking manga-barbies, though.

think those little kid characters acting like this in those skimpy outfits posted a page or 2 back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel

I'm pretty sure the emotes would be universal.

[TimtheEnchanter]

However, the hypersexualization of children in Boobs and Sluts, and portraying it as kiddieporn is going to be a really tough sell when virtually every episode of Toddlers and Tiaras and Here Comes Honey-Boo-Boo has real live toddlers who are every bit as tarted up and hypersexualized, and that's playing every week in primetime on "respected" cable networks.  I wish I could say otherwise, a couple of those costumes are far, far from innocent, but there it is.  I don't think we can get that particular dog to hunt, so we should probably concentrate on the one that will.

The U.S. entertainment industry has the government by the balls, and it's been that way for a long time. No other element of the business world has tried to redefine rights to earn more income (first SOPA, then PIPA, and now they want to remove our right to resell media AT ALL) So it's no big shock that they keep getting away with it. I hate to even suggest this, but there's a much better chance against NCsoft since there's a lot of xenophobes out there.

[Dollhouse]

... wielding a sword so heavy that it would make her tip over...

*coughtitanweaponscough*  Just sayin'...

But yeah...the Lyn (that's the name of the Lolicon-looking playable race in Blade and Soul) are a bit much for me.  They take the game from roll-my-eyes territory, chucking at every basement neckbeard gamer with no sex life cliche that just got reinforced, to shuddering a bit at the creepyness of it all.

Moreover, B&S is simply not remotely a viable replacement for CoH. It is a fundamentally different game on so many levels that the crossover appeal in the Western market will be virtually nonexistent. Different genre (fantasy vs superhero), very different degree of realism in the depiction of the world, tie-ins to radically different archetypes, mythologies, and memes, very different combat depiction (have a peep at gameplay videos...there are a ton on YouTube)...the list goes on and on.  I can't see Blade and Soul having more than very limited success in the West, regardless of the effect of anger at NCSoft over shuttering CoH. Simply put, it's a very, VERY Asian game.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Moreover, B&S is simply not remotely a viable replacement for CoH. It is a fundamentally different game on so many levels that the crossover appeal in the Western market will be virtually nonexistent. Different genre (fantasy vs superhero), very different degree of realism in the depiction of the world, tie-ins to radically different archetypes, mythologies, and memes, very different combat depiction (have a peep at gameplay videos...there are a ton on YouTube)...the list goes on and on. 

... to say nothing about the fact that the market is so over-saturated with sword & sorcery games that it amazes me anyone is still making them.

*coughtitanweaponscough*  Just sayin'...

I only excuse superheroes for being able to logically pull that off. 

[Segev]

Never, ever underestimate the bandwagon effect. Especially not when people want to "play it safe."

[Atlantea]

Moreover, B&S is simply not remotely a viable replacement for CoH. It is a fundamentally different game on so many levels that the crossover appeal in the Western market will be virtually nonexistent. Different genre (fantasy vs superhero), very different degree of realism in the depiction of the world, tie-ins to radically different archetypes, mythologies, and memes, very different combat depiction (have a peep at gameplay videos...there are a ton on YouTube)...the list goes on and on.  I can't see Blade and Soul having more than very limited success in the West, regardless of the effect of anger at NCSoft over shuttering CoH. Simply put, it's a very, VERY Asian game.

More to the point - I understand it's yet another in a long list of "Grinders". that is - little to no story at all from the low levels until the end game and then it's either you "pay to win" or you get involved in mass combat with armies of other players.

The asian mindset towards what they consider an enjoyable MMO simply does not work here. They've tried it multiple times. RF Online and Aion being the most memorable.

RF Online was also an extremely gorgeous game (for the state of the art at the time) and it had powerhouse artist Shirow Masamune (Appleseed, Ghost in the Shell) doing their character and armor designs! Guess what? It didn't help then either!

People will ogle the artwork. But the gameplay is what will turn all but the most hardcore fanatics off.

[Moonfyire101]

... to say nothing about the fact that the market is so over-saturated with sword & sorcery games that it amazes me anyone is still making them.

Exactly, all else aside those are really the only MMO's out there, WoW clones. I play wow, iv'e tried tons of other fantasy MMO's and they are all so similar i just get bored. The only 2 i spend any time on are WoW and Shaiya. Not to say that there aren't other good ones, i downloaded everquest because i love the ps2 game but havn't had a chance to play yet. Ok, anyway enough of that the point is the market has enough of that type of game already. Heroes was unique.

[TimtheEnchanter]

People will ogle the artwork. But the gameplay is what will turn all but the most hardcore fanatics off.

I played a mage in Aion for 2 days. The moment I found out that everything was an attack chain? That did it in for me. The number of spells was actually quite low, but besides that, you had to hear your character call out the spell EVERY time you attack. Can't imagine what that would've done to me after a couple years.


And... thought of another innuendo title, but it's probably too OTT.

"Blade in Hole?" 

[Mantic]

think those little kid characters acting like this in those skimpy outfits posted a page or 2 back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel

I'm pretty sure the emotes would be universal.

Try to find video of the kids doing that walk and emotes, though. Although in COH (for example) all the characters do have access to the same emotes, we don't have a lot of gender-specific emotes. Or would you expect the male characters on this BS... er B&S... game to also have the same animations? It would be really awesome if you can get video of those characters doing the skanky walks and emotes, but I'm skeptical it would actually work that way.

It'd also be neat if some talented demo-editor could set up a particularly flag-draped and non-sexual (maybe comedic) clip of CoH emote action to juxtapose with the B&S butt-flashes and booby-swaying.

BTW, even WildStar has it's own version of those creepy little moe-eyed critters. I wouldn't expect they are running around making come-hither gestures, but who knows...?

[TimtheEnchanter]

BTW, even WildStar has it's own version of those creepy little moe-eyed critters. I wouldn't expect they are running around making come-hither gestures, but who knows...?

If they do, I propose the alternate title: Stars Gone Wild.

[dwturducken]

Actually, one of my biggest issues with DCUO, stated so eloquently by Yahtzee, is the child sidekick body type.  I understand this is a time-honored tradition in DC, and to a lesser degree in Marvel, but the implementation is terrible.  One of my IRL friends did one, and we had more fun making fun of how creepy it was than actually playing the game.

I'm not being prudish, here. I enjoy the eye candy as much as the next neckbeard, but I did enjoy playing CoH with my son. That's not something I can do with any other game currently out there or in the "coming soon" phase, with the possible exception of the Cryptic/Perfect World games. I think we're going a little overboard with the pedophilia association, but that's a personal distaste for the subject matter in question rather than a concern for the direction the conversation is headed. So far, I think the idea has the potential to play well with the "conservative American value set," without alienating the rest of the nationalities/regionalities currently associated with the efforts, here.

I am saying that as a Midwestern American, though, so I'll just go ahead and pass out grains of salt for everyone.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Actually, one of my biggest issues with DCUO, stated so eloquently by  url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2757-DC-Universe-Online]Yahtzee[/url], is the child sidekick body type.  I understand this is a time-honored tradition in DC, and to a lesser degree in Marvel, but the implementation is terrible.  One of my IRL friends did one, and we had more fun making fun of how creepy it was than actually playing the game.

I am saying that as a Midwestern American, though, so I'll just go ahead and pass out grains of salt for everyone.

Lulz...The Cape just did the "Shady Valley Boy's Home" ad, inviting villains to mentor homeless children. 

And... DCUO is actually that creepy?

TBH as far as the pedophelia thing being "out of control" in the thread, that's kinda going on everywhere. There's such a paranoia surrounding the issue now, "There's a predator around every corner and behind every screen... isn't there?" that people see something 'wrong' even in places where nothing is intended. (million and one batman/robin jokes, get on stage)

[Moonfyire101]

If they do, I propose the alternate title: Stars Gone Wild.

lol, nice one

[Segev]

Asking out of total ignorance here (seeing as I didn't even know the option existed), but what's so creepy about the "child sidekick" body type in the game in question?

[Atlantea]

Funny - I didn't get that vibe from the "Rabbit Girl" in the Wildstar trailers at all. She seemed like an adult to me. With the caveat that she was a bit of a "ditzy" adult. (Not unintelligent, just easily distracted).

(EDIT: I also don't want to hate on DCUO for the sidekick thing. It's really not possible to make something as outrageous with it as anything from Blade and Soul. And we do NOT need to be drawing attention to a staple of American comics that could be turned against us in our campaign here. )

I REALLY don't want to hate on Wildstar too much. They're in the same unenviable boat as the people at Arenanet. They are doing some damn good work. I only wish they could find a way to do it for a company other than NCSoft. I don't want to go negative on them so much as I'd like to encourage them to find any way out from under NCSoft that's possible.

I don't think that we have as much traction in that regard with Arenanet, and I don't think we should even try to hurt them. All we can do is refuse to give NCSoft OUR money. But they've already made most of the sales they're going to make there with the launch. And both they and Wildstar are North American employees. So... I'd hate to cause THEM to lose their jobs. But with Wildstar there's enough lead time that maybe we can have a non-destructive effect there - cause them to break from NCSoft and find another publisher perhaps.

In regards to the lolicon/borderline pedo stuff. Yeah - probably not going to fly. Not in any strictly legal sense.

But here's the important bit - both with that angle and the more overt objectification of females in B&S - listen up.

They are SOCIAL angles. Tools that we can use. And yes, Mantic, I am USING the squick factor consciously.

These are tools that NCSoft has unwittingly GIVEN us to beat them over the head with using the social media (facebook, twitter, livejournal, blogger, etc) and I fully endorse the idea of us USING them to build negative PR memes. And we have MORE than enough lead time before B&S is even released to make a MAJOR headache for them.

So yeah - let's concentrate on the obvious jiggle and tease softcore elements of the human females at first. See if that gains traction. Retweet that video that's been posted above a few times with desultory comments! Post it back to NCSoft's facebook page saying "we're not interested in this and won't be paying money for it!"

Push the story to CNN, Fox, MSNBC, etc. Doesn't matter!

The more saturation we have on the topic on OUR terms before NCSoft realizes what's happening, the better!

In military terms, get inside their OODA loop. (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act). It's not always the guy who makes every perfect decision possible who wins, it's the guy who reacts faster overall.

That's why social media can be such a game changer these days. We have FAR more power to move minds than has been available even 5 years ago!

One last thing. And it's VERY IMPORTANT.

Comedy. Satire. Ridicule.

Turjan had the right idea - MOCKING Taek Jin Kim in his cartoon paneled strip.

We need MORE like that. We need not to come off as OUTRAGED. We need to be making FUN of NCSoft for their idiocy!

We need to make the entire CONCEPT of Blade and Soul being released in America to be exactly what it is - A BAD JOKE. Something to ridicule. Something to LAUGH AT.

If we can make it so that we turn the gamers lusting after Blade and Soul currently into gamers who don't want to ADMIT that they play it for fear of that ridicule - of being MOCKED for it. I will consider it mission accomplished.

[Knightslayer]

I played a mage in Aion for 2 days. The moment I found out that everything was an attack chain? That did it in for me. The number of spells was actually quite low, but besides that, you had to hear your character call out the spell EVERY time you attack. Can't imagine what that would've done to me after a couple years.


And... thought of another innuendo title, but it's probably too OTT.

"Blade in Hole?" 

You do know you could turn that off in the options, right? 
And it wasn't all an attack chain, they actually have lots of spells, especially once you unlock stigmas and can begin slotting them (think FFVII Materia, except class based).

[TimtheEnchanter]

You do know you could turn that off in the options, right? 

......... *facepalm*

[TimtheEnchanter]

I'm not much of a drawing artist, but I had a thought of trying to come up with a way to play with the realignment of company focus thing. Maybe even incorporating the infamous NCsoft phone call thing.

Idea #1. Coming out of the earpiece: "What the heck is a realignment of company focus?" The exec is on the phone but is mainly focused on the computer screen with some Lolicon girls on it. He's drooling all over the keyboard.

Idea #2. Playing on the 'realignment of focus' term, an exec turning the focusing knob on a telescope that is pointed out the window of his office (presumably looking at a girl in an adjacent building - again made obvious by the drool). To his back, on the screen, a message from PS saying something like, "So, about that advertising budget for next year..."

If anyone wants to play with any of that, go ahead.