"...a realignment of company focus"

[Knightslayer]

Ah yes of course! Mirror Spirit - who, lest we forget, was added to the game specifically for the Korean launch.

So then, are we also to assume this "realignment of company focus" incorporates the following change in the representation of Korean culture to the west?



Does it mean the image at left "...no longer fits with our long-term goals for the company"?

This whole thing just gets seedier and seedier doesn't it? I wonder if the Korean press are aware of the Mirror Spirit representation of their country's iconography in CoH, and how NCSoft are getting rid of that portrayal in the west in favour of...well, whatever that creature in the right image is?

Given how standard those games are there, and the popularity of the artist... they just might consider it a good thing.

[Soundtrack]

The Blade & Soul imagery of the woman's body offends me. In my opinion, it appears completely unnatural and, as many have pointed out so without the realms of biological proportions.

Shame on NCSoft if they feel that they need to lower themselves to such levels to sell a game. The translation I'm gleaming from this is: "Our stories aren't going to be all that great, but come and look at these objectified women in all their perverse glory."

Not only did City of Heroes NOT have to portray women in these semi-pornographic (and I'm using "semi" loosely here) manners, but their incredibly well-thought-out stories, rich with details carried the game to new heights.

At first I was just disappointed and saddened to know that our beloved Paragon Studio pals lost their jobs and we were losing our game... but now I'm downright angry. 

And I mourn for our world's youth and the visuals that will be assaulting their impressionable minds. "Let's lower the value of our world's women and take something beautiful (the human body) and grotesquely reshape it to meet our disgusting 'needs'."

Of course, I'm sure they're (NCSoft) is grateful for this thread... because we're offering them free advertising.

"There is no such thing as bad publicity except your own obituary." - Brendan Behan.

[pandora114]

Here's a nice Golden Age look as well.

My Empath Terrana Nightside. 

[pandora114]

Yeah I'm playing around in the character creator, and even with Chest Slider max and Waist slider Min...the female character looks just like your average barbie doll. 

And of course I can't take a screenie of it.

[Turjan]

Given how standard those games are there, and the popularity of the artist... they just might consider it a good thing.

Some elements of society, certainly - but there's no doubt that on many levels, Korean culture is still far more conservative than western culture. Teenage boys both in Korea and the west may be drooling onehandedly over Blade & Soul, but what about the rest of our respective societies?

And I mourn for our world's youth and the visuals that will be assaulting their impressionable minds. "Let's lower the value of our world's women and take something beautiful (the human body) and grotesquely reshape it to meet our disgusting 'needs'."

Of course, I'm sure they're (NCSoft) is grateful for this thread... because we're offering them free advertising.

"There is no such thing as bad publicity except your own obituary." - Brendan Behan.

"You must pursue this investigation of Watergate even if it leads to the president. I'm innocent. You've got to believe I'm innocent. If you don't, take my job." - Richard Nixon

Sometimes, bad publicity is bad publicity after all

Reading what both Knightslayer and Soundtrack say leads me to another interesting "Hmm..." point though - youth and maturity.

Of all the MMOs I've played, CoH has without a doubt the highest proportion of 'mature' players, by which I mean not just people over 18, but in many cases waaaay over 18.

And ironically, Blade and Soul will likely have a 'M' rating, but I've no doubt at all that a large percentage of the playerbase will be under 18s who shouldn't be playing the game at all.

It just goes to show that large corporations are no respecters of culture of any age - on the one hand they're insulting adults by killing a game with a mature demographic and behaving like a pouty child who's taken away his ball to bury it so no one else can have it, and on the other, they're peddling softcore porn they know underage children will play, all the while hiding behind a ratings shield and laughing as they count the coins those kids have forked over.

*laughs*

That's three (at least) moral denouncements I've made about NCSoft in this thread now. It was never my intention to become some sort of moralistic crusader...but unfortunately, the more I look at NCSoft (and Blade and Soul in particular) the more I feel myself turning into one. It's hard not to really, isn't it?

[Kheprera]

Here is one of the skimpiest outfits out of any of my characters...



Mainly because monstrous legs can't wear skirts.

[pandora114]

I think the skimpiest is the "Hearts Plus" I have on my Arch/TA Corr...

[pandora114]

Oh let's not forget ol Flower Knight!  From the Heroic Tutorial!

[Segev]

Great work, everybody! There are so many pictures that it'd difficult to choose, but I will pick one-and-only-one for that "replacing this:" slot before the "...with this:" slot, just to keep the message as to-the-point as possible.

I won't be using the side-by-side of the very nicely done Korean-style heroine next to the "with this" replacement in this message, but I think we might be well-served by having somebody do a slight re-working of this press release for the Korean press that uses that exact image. The variant press release should replace the emphasis on empowering-vs-objectifying women with an emphasis on degradation of the culture and how Korea's Face is presented to the West.

[Atlantea]

Great work, everybody! There are so many pictures that it'd difficult to choose, but I will pick one-and-only-one for that "replacing this:" slot before the "...with this:" slot, just to keep the message as to-the-point as possible.

I won't be using the side-by-side of the very nicely done Korean-style heroine next to the "with this" replacement in this message, but I think we might be well-served by having somebody do a slight re-working of this press release for the Korean press that uses that exact image. The variant press release should replace the emphasis on empowering-vs-objectifying women with an emphasis on degradation of the culture and how Korea's Face is presented to the West.

Exactly! Anybody else notice the extreme irony that OUR game, a WESTERN game, was MORE respectful of the idea of an Asian woman than ANY of their games?

Add that idea into your press release, eh?

[TimtheEnchanter]

Well gee, NC really picked the right season in which to drop this on us. Halloween is right around the corner, the centerpiece of one of my biggest pet peeves.



Metaphorically, the last company that made REAL costumes for women has now closed up shop.

And suddenly I have this idea in my head for a mock article about Icon being bought out and dissolved by Leg Avenue.

[dwturducken]

Semi-related, I was very pleased to see a French Maid costume (at a large retail chain with a name ending in "Mart") in sizes well into the double digits. The model on the package was probably a size 14 or 16, and it was an attractive costume.  It was still suggestive, but far less trashy.  I think that says a lot about prevailing sentiment, if that's what's at the big chains.

[Vulpy]

Some of you may be familiar with The Big Picture. Here's a link to a very germane post from that vlog. I like to rewatch this one from time to time just to remind myself to be fair to my creations of both genders.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/4719-Gender-Games

[Rae]

Thought you  might also be vaguely interested in seeing this one, Downix:

http://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/blade-and-soul-youre-doing-it-wrong/

[Back Blast]

Was mentioning the thread last night to the wife and I used the phrase 'kung-fu pornography' to describe this stuff. Summed it up pretty well yes?

[downix]

Thought you  might also be vaguely interested in seeing this one, Downix:

http://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/blade-and-soul-youre-doing-it-wrong/

I just ran across it like 2 minutes ago!

[johnrobey]

Well gee, NC really picked the right season in which to drop this on us. Halloween is right around the corner, the centerpiece of one of my biggest pet peeves.

Metaphorically, the last company that made REAL costumes for women has now closed up shop.
And suddenly I have this idea in my head for a mock article about Wentworth's being bought out and dissolved by Leg Avenue.

Nice post, TimtheEnchanter, and I really like the point of that cartoon.  Looks like this thread is devoted to comparing and contrasting Cityof with Blade&Soul.  I think it more likely that NCSoft is predicting a higher Return on Investment (ROI) from B&S than continuing Paragon Studios/CoX.  It's entirely possible that the artwork in B&S is personally more aesthetically pleasing to the NCSoft decision-makers; however, I'll continue to assert my opinion that it's ROI driving this decision.

While we continue to debate here whether CoH or B&S depicts women as sexy (often while being warriors simulaneously)--I think the answer is Yes, they both do!-- Hence I don't find this argument persuasive (that NCSoft is axing wholesome, family-friendly PG-Teen CoX for "pornographic" B&S.)   Porn is in the eye of the beholder and informed by cultural values & aesthetics; e.g., compare say the images of Mirror Spirit and the Flower Knight (both of which I've always liked) to the images of Praetor Tilman in the cutscene during BAF (friggin' hawt, i say!) or even the image of newest Freedom Phalanx member Penelope Yin one sees during Log In.

For that matter, we could speculate (and maybe some already have) that NCSoft's decision was driven by current anti-U.S. sentiment, that CoH even with Statesman dead looked too American, takes place (fictionally) in the U.S. and that this was hurting the company's global positioning.  I don't for a minute believe that, but we could speculate about it. ;-)  [note: I'd rather we didn't.]

Instead, I'd like to offer a Realignment of COMMUNITY Effort aka. my latest crazy thoughts about how to save the game while making breakfast.  Here goes:  while we are each committed to saving CoH (our collective investment of time, creativity and some money) and while I'd like to see these efforts continue, TonyV or Mr W (or anyone else for that matter) what about the idea of the Community reaching out to Formerly-Known-As-Paragon-Studios aka our development team and seeing if the entreprenuerial interest in acquring the IP from NCSoft (that I gather was rebuffed) could instead to used to back a newly formed studio.  Sure, it would mean a total start over and likely months with no Paragon Studios MMO; however, we know and trust this development team and they know what we want in an MMO and listen to the community.   While it could at best be similar it could not be identical or draw on CoH Lore, but it's possible a re-rolled MMO by the dev team we've come trust would surpassed CoH since (imo) the Studio was at its creative peak and this peak could possibly be the launching point of a new MMO by this remarkable team.

Flame away if you must if what I'm proposing is heresy.

[Vulpy]

Some of you may be familiar with The Big Picture. Here's a link to a very germane post from that vlog. I like to rewatch this one from time to time just to remind myself to be fair to my creations of both genders.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/4719-Gender-Games

I'll extract the most pertinent part in text for the benefit of those on lower-bandwidth connections. (I got you covered, V.V.)

Poses, especially default stances or hero poses, become incredibly important. Or at least they do for characters who are men.

When you look at an official still or even an idle stance for a male character in a video game or comic or cartoon or whatever, said male character's poise and comportment are usually carefully set up so as to convey or imply a specific attitude in the moment captured.

[Enumeration of visual examples snipped from excerpt.]

Everything about Marcus Fenix always implies "I've been through Hell, which means I'll get through this."  Why is Nathan Drake typically depicted grinning like an idiot while about to do something dangerous? Because it implies "Chill out. I got this."

Women in games, however, tend to pose or be posed a little differently. While the men get lots of poses with lots of implications, the quote-unquote "sexy ladies" of games get poses that all have the same implication. Namely, the implication that there is a full-length mirror somewhere just outside the frame and they are checking themselves out. Or rather, that would be the implication if we didn't all know what was actually going on.

Seriously. Game makers, cut this [pancake] out. It's not fair to female characters, and it's not fair to contemporary female humans...who comprise some 50% of your potential market.

[downix]

Instead, I'd like to offer a Realignment of COMMUNITY Effort aka. my latest crazy thoughts about how to save the game while making breakfast.  Here goes:  while we are each committed to saving CoH (our collective investment of time, creativity and some money) and while I'd like to see these efforts continue, TonyV or Mr W (or anyone else for that matter) what about the idea of the Community reaching out to Formerly-Known-As-Paragon-Studios aka our development team and seeing if the entreprenuerial interest in acquring the IP from NCSoft (that I gather was rebuffed) could instead to used to back a newly formed studio.  Sure, it would mean a total start over and likely months with no Paragon Studios MMO; however, we know and trust this development team and they know what we want in an MMO and listen to the community.   While it could at best be similar it could not be identical or draw on CoH Lore, but it's possible a re-rolled MMO by the dev team we've come trust would surpassed CoH since (imo) the Studio was at its creative peak and this peak could possibly be the launching point of a new MMO by this remarkable team.

I would be aok with this, and would lend any of my skills necessary to help out here. I do think this might be a bit premature, but once the employment contract ends for them on November 1st, it might be possible.

Plan Z of course would only be there if there was no way to salvage the studio itself. If they can be saved, even if apart from CoH itself, my effort goes to their flag.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Something else everyone here needs to see, if they haven't already.

'Female Armor Sucks" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTGh0EMmMC8