Oh look! We saved an MMO. Just not ours....=(

[JaguarX]

Can we all settle down a bit, please?

Yeah.

[FatherXmas]

She's not a troll, just an enthusiastic defender of the faith trying to keep everyone on point.  And the point being CoH was ripped from us by penny pinching corporate foreigners who didn't "get us" and our independent spirit and we will do anything to bring it back even if it means writing it from scratch just to show them how wrong they are.

[Empyrean]

She's not a troll, just an enthusiastic defender of the faith trying to keep everyone on point.  And the point being CoH was ripped from us by penny pinching corporate foreigners who didn't "get us" and our independent spirit and we will do anything to bring it back even if it means writing it from scratch just to show them how wrong they are.

Well, I guess the definition of troll is debatable, but she sure gets ugly quick if you so much as incidentally mention any other games.  Loving CoH doesn't mean you have to hate all other games.

But, I shouldn't have taken the poke that I did, and I apologize for that.

[Twisted Toon]

Well, I guess the definition of troll is debatable, but she sure gets ugly quick if you so much as incidentally mention any other games.  Loving CoH doesn't mean you have to hate all other games.

But, I shouldn't have taken the poke that I did, and I apologize for that.

I have tried CO, I don't really care for it all that much. I still dust off my one F2P character and run a couple of alerts or missions. But it just doesn't capture my attention like CoH did. I actually play STO more than CO. And that doesn't get played as much as SW:TOR. None of them, however, hold a candle to CoH.

Now, I just get board after a couple of hours and go watch TV or something.

I don't think of any other game as "the enemy", they just don't hold my interest like CoH.

[Segev]

It would be nice if we could maintain a certain level of civility in these forums. CO has a community which has been largely warm and receptive to CoH refugees seeking a life raft. Denigrating it and its parent company is not called for, and reflects badly on this community. It's perfectly fine to dislike the game. Bitterness over CoH's closure should not be directed at Crytpic, PWE, or CO (or any other game). It is not only childish, but makes all those who would otherwise wish to be our allies feel they're being tainted by the behavior, and drives them away.

[JaguarX]

It would be nice if we could maintain a certain level of civility in these forums. CO has a community which has been largely warm and receptive to CoH refugees seeking a life raft. Denigrating it and its parent company is not called for, and reflects badly on this community. It's perfectly fine to dislike the game. Bitterness over CoH's closure should not be directed at Crytpic, PWE, or CO (or any other game). It is not only childish, but makes all those who would otherwise wish to be our allies feel they're being tainted by the behavior, and drives them away.

basically.

[LadyShin]

Its not "victory" until I can play CoH again.

It's not victory till Paragon Studios is up and running again.

[JanessaVR]

It's not victory till Paragon Studios is up and running again.

At this point, even I have pretty much given up hoping for that.  We've lost a lot of momentum, it's been over 6 months since the game closed, the former Paragon Studios employees have dispersed to the 4 corners of the Earth, no one's been remotely interested in our pitch (it looks like Disney ignored us completely), and VV's gone and probably not coming back.

I'm still willing to assist in funding our (hopefully) upcoming ad campaign, but even I expect it to do little but (hopefully) blacken NCSoft's eye.

My real hopes are with the reverse engineering teams at this point, who are working on getting us a community server.  I think that's about all I can realistically hope for at this point.

[JaguarX]

At this point, even I have pretty much given up hoping for that.  We've lost a lot of momentum, it's been over 6 months since the game closed, the former Paragon Studios employees have dispersed to the 4 corners of the Earth, no one's been remotely interested in our pitch (it looks like Disney ignored us completely), and VV's gone and probably not coming back.

I'm still willing to assist in funding our (hopefully) upcoming ad campaign, but even I expect it to do little but (hopefully) blacken NCSoft's eye.

My real hopes are with the reverse engineering teams at this point, who are working on getting us a community server.  I think that's about all I can realistically hope for at this point.

I doubt it will blacken their eye. Remember we barely made up 3% of their sales prior to shutdown and more than likely most customers that play or played or thinking about playing ncsoft games already know or heard about the shut down.

remember they shut down 4 games at leats prior to shutting down COX. Most of the cox community knew about those shut downs, but did it stop many people from logging in? Possibly, if the downward trend of players and income was any indication but I think that downward trend after their last game prior to COX shutdown was other factors. Same with current players now. Many just as many here, probably said "COX gone? Dang that sucks." And continue to play.

I think we are coming to a point of over exposure and wearing otu the audience outside here. Many already seem to be making comments that dont show happy support. and support comments from people that are not here and not part of COX are getting less and less. I say with the ad campaign either chill out for a moment or try to not focus on negative. I think it's starting to get to the point where this is all getting passed by as "Oh those crazy saveCOX people are still at it. Dont they have anything better to do?"

Or focus the ad more for the general population whether gaming general population or not and not so much focus on "getting back at ncsoft and trying to black their eye."  One, remember if there any hope to selling, ya dont want them to get in the mood like they are in with TR and not sell it and try to bury it forever for good no matter who knocks on their door and then go on a witch hunt for every single private server out there like they also did with TR, some were in the very early stages probably even less develop than most of the stuff already ad here. Nor do we want to be business poison. Disney ignored us, meh, it was the most likely outcome anyways but it was tried. Google might do the same. But remember no matter if the all powerful being from two galaxy away with 8 trillion dollars come with an offer to buy, NCSOft still hold the cards.


In short, if we want war then prepare for war and the results. And I dont think many of us are Garrotts with shit ton of money to either sue or countersue NCSoft or defend against them and no, not all TR private server owners went out as the sight of the C&D, although I dont think many went to court or made it that far but even when they paid for a lawyer and they did they think even their own lawyer decided it was best to just shut it down. Remember in court of stuff like that, it isnt all about morals and whether or not ncsoft did the nice or mean thing of shutting down the game. It's about legalities even if the company doing the suing is a douche. 

[LadyVamp]

It would be nice if we could maintain a certain level of civility in these forums. CO has a community which has been largely warm and receptive to CoH refugees seeking a life raft. Denigrating it and its parent company is not called for, and reflects badly on this community. It's perfectly fine to dislike the game. Bitterness over CoH's closure should not be directed at Crytpic, PWE, or CO (or any other game). It is not only childish, but makes all those who would otherwise wish to be our allies feel they're being tainted by the behavior, and drives them away.

+1

[Aggelakis]

It's not victory till Paragon Studios is up and running again.

I'm sorry to say, you will never have your victory. Paragon has scattered to the winds, some of them not even working in gaming anymore.

However, we will probably get OUR victory, in that eventually City will probably be available (probably NOT through NCsoft or an actual sale of the product) and eventually we will have 1-3 spiritual successors that grew out of our love for the game.

[MakoMako]

remember they shut down 4 games at leats prior to shutting down COX. Most of the cox community knew about those shut downs, but did it stop many people from logging in? Possibly, if the downward trend of players and income was any indication but I think that downward trend after their last game prior to COX shutdown was other factors. Same with current players now. Many just as many here, probably said "COX gone? Dang that sucks." And continue to play.

Plucking this one out of your post, Jaguar. Because this is something I had a long talk with a few people about.

Myself and many other friends of mine, within City of Heroes, were largely ignorant of the events of Tabula Rasa and the outright fraud committed by NCSoft. I knew Tabula Rasa existed, but I honestly had no idea it had any association with NCSoft. Not until -after- the shut down.

I bring this up because this goes for a lot of people I know. And I had to ask myself how exactly I would've reacted if I knew that continuing to play City of Heroes would've held the same appeal anymore... Knowing that I'm directly paying a company that had so poorly decided the fate of games and game developers in the past, that it actually tried to screw over someone that used to be among my favorite developers (Lord British).

I have to say... Had I known about this in even the first year of City of Heroes? I probably would've stopped playing. But after the first year, I'm not sure. I would've been more conscious of the issues at hand. The disgusting business practice. The fact that NCSoft could've just lied their way through business. But I had no idea... A lot of us had no idea.

The same goes for others I knew. We pretty much just stopped and had to ask ourselves if we'd have had the courage to speak up and do something that we sincerely thought was wrong. How would we have reacted if Tabula Rasa players invaded CoH, telling us how sub-par the game is, and how badly they wanted their old one back? Sure, we agreed it blows, but we never cared for the game, we're not affected, so why do we care?

I think Jaguar is right on this. I believe I would've contentedly continued to play City of Heroes until the inevitable hit us, only to finally go... "Hey wait a minute!", but years too late.

That's the key here, now. Nobody feels threatened. At the very most, there's idle and inactive pity towards the people that were affected, and that's it.

Kick, scream, complain, and shout. Not many will listen because our words eventually become blurred. And that's the real problem. Getting people to listen, not just the companies out screwing people.

Try to think. What would a Tabula Rasa player needed to have told you about NCSoft 3 years ago, to convince you to take a more active role in protest? Whether it was to stop playing CoH or something else?

[Nightwatch]

Great post MakoMako.

Much as I dislike NCsoft, this is no longer about my hate toward that company.  It should be, and is, about how to create something else that can fill the gap left by the loss of CoX.

I've no particular skills that can assist but I and all of us should be right behind the efforts to create a spiritual successor to CoX.

[JaguarX]

Try to think. What would a Tabula Rasa player needed to have told you about NCSoft 3 years ago, to convince you to take a more active role in protest? Whether it was to stop playing CoH or something else?

exactly.

[AlabasterKnight]

Much as I dislike NCsoft, this is no longer about my hate toward that company.

Or any company. (Not personally attacking your comment, this just seemed a good place to say this...)

One common thing I've seen in many of these threads is the distrust for some 'corporate' bogeymen, namely NCSoft.

It takes people of the same organization, resources, and drive to achieve a mission, with focus, alignment and accountability to reach production of a product.

That is what a company is in theory. If you are constantly chafing against and guarding against someone having to make financial decisions to be accountable to their stockholders/supporters/investors/market share, then you've taken your eye off the ball.

How many resources over what period of time will bring us this new game?
Has anyone asked themselves what it really takes to develop assets?
Time, money, equipment, in addition to the theories of the company work ethics stated above. Sounds like a company may be in order...

How can we achieve quality?
How can we attempt to bring the cutting edge?
Is our IP imaginative and able to capture the market?
Do our stories compel a return?

If you want a game that looks like it was brought to you by a seventh grade arts class and if you want to wait ten years to see it, by all means, distrust 'corporations' and don't support companies.

Or
Maybe it's time to stop the hate speak on NCSoft and stop chain-linking that emotion to corporations, companies and the world of business.

I am not by any means defending NCSoft. It is clear to me that they lost my wallet and that of anyone I can tell the tale to and it may be more lucrative for them to simply stay on that side of the Pacific and to forget themselves how to look west past the Himalayas...
But back here, state side, we have a job to do.

Hanging out by Paragon Studio's grave and cursing for justice is just not getting anyone any closer. It's bad for business for our community to harbor that. We've got more important things to do, and the last thing a supporter with the financial means and good will wants to see is a bitter customer.

Back to the drawing board now.
Very Truly,

AlabasterKnight
Creative Director
The Phoenix Project

[downix]

Indeed Jim.

Do you think Bruce Wayne stuck to his parents grave for the rest of his life? No, he tapped that, and became Batman.

We must be Batman!

[dwturducken]

Hanging out by Paragon Studio's grave and cursing for justice is just not getting anyone any closer.

This sounds like a send-up of those Mel Gibson Roaring Rampage of Revenge movies as done by Funny or Die or Geek and Sundry. I know it's off-topic, but I couldn't not share.

[Taceus Jiwede]

I am loving the way this post is going!  I have nothing to add but I love the attitude.  The grave analogy was brilliant and I think sums it up great.  Also Batman!

[healix]

Holding hatred and anger is like swallowing poison, and expecting it to kill someone else....

[OzonePrime]

Indeed Jim.

Do you think Bruce Wayne stuck to his parents grave for the rest of his life? No, he tapped that, and became Batman.

We must be Batman!

The biggest reason Batman is my favorite hero! (Too bad these movies have given quite a different picture of him)