"...a realignment of company focus"

[Profit]

Yeah that's what I mean. The physical environment you're playing in won't bend to the will of the augmented reality. I guess a developer could do that for fun, but only if you want to see a kid pull a Wile E Coyote and crash into a solid wall with a painted hole in it because he saw that the digital Road Runner was able to go through it.

I.... I.... I would pay monies for this. Real Monies.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Just realized something about that B&S toon. Maybe it's an early build, but considering how much detail is on the hair, I don't think so.

Severe lacking of physics on that body. EVERYTHING is recorded motion. The hair, the ribbons on the clothes, all of it. In a modern game, that's borderline unacceptable. Even CoH found a way to get physics onto the characters with the cape trick. Now why in the heck would you make an Eastern game with modern graphics and not give your characters the ability to have epic ribbons and long strands of anime hair blowing in the wind? That makes no sense. They paid no attention to aesthetic detail in that department, but were clearly very concerned with making sure that the girls could move like belly dancers, even when they're not belly dancing. Realignment of focus indeed. 

[emu265]

Just realized something about that B&S toon. Maybe it's an early build, but considering how much detail is on the hair, I don't think so.

Severe lacking of physics on that body. EVERYTHING is recorded motion. The hair, the ribbons on the clothes, all of it. In a modern game, that's borderline unacceptable. Even CoH found a way to get physics onto the characters with the cape trick. Now why in the heck would you make an Eastern game with modern graphics and not give your characters the ability to have epic ribbons and long strands of anime hair blowing in the wind? That makes no sense. They paid no attention to aesthetic detail in that department, but were clearly very concerned with making sure that the girls could move like belly dancers, even when they're not belly dancing. Realignment of focus indeed. 

Heh.  I think it's pretty obvious that B&S (using that acronym, even with the ampersand, makes me squee) is focusing on making a game full of strippers and hookers.  It's a little disheartening, actually, if you look at the comments.  A lot of people are excited and think it looks really good.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Heh.  I think it's pretty obvious that B&S (using that acronym, even with the ampersand, makes me squee) is focusing on making a game full of strippers and hookers.  It's a little disheartening, actually, if you look at the comments.  A lot of people are excited and think it looks really good.

Well maybe this is when the moron brigade steps in and starts doing their thing... buying into anything that has sex or explosions. The same kind of people who have enabled Michael Bay to keep making craptastic movies all this time.

[DrakeGrimm]

Well maybe this is when the moron brigade steps in and starts doing their thing... buying into anything that has sex or explosions. The same kind of people who have enabled Michael Bay to keep making craptastic movies all this time.

Michael Bay makes FANTAST...snrrrrrrrk...okay, I can't even finish this post with a straight face.

[Segev]

*raises his hand tentatively*

I liked the Transformers movies...except for the shaky-cam.

[TimtheEnchanter]

*raises his hand tentatively*

I liked the Transformers movies...except for the shaky-cam.

As long as you weren't there for Megan Fox's "acting" abilities. 

[emu265]

As long as you weren't there for Megan Fox's "acting" abilities. 

If Michael Bay had incorporated a male with Megan Fox's... credentials... I would've been happier.  Instead I got Shia Labeouf.  It's not fair, not at all.

[V-Mink]

Heh.  I think it's pretty obvious that B&S (using that acronym, even with the ampersand, makes me squee) is focusing on making a game full of strippers and hookers.  It's a little disheartening, actually, if you look at the comments.  A lot of people are excited and think it looks really good.

Emphasis mine.  I will admit that, Liefeld-esque female characters aside, it's reasonably pretty, at least as pretty as I found Aion.  But I found Lineage 2's NA localization beta to be pretty as well at the time.  'Pretty' does not make a good game.

Pure speculation incoming:

The industry, thankfully, seems to be moving away from grindalicious* games.  This may be why so many Eastern market games are trying to make inroads into the huge NA and EU gamer/MMOer markets: The market in SE Asia is saturated, and these games need to grow to show they're still viable.  (If you're not growing, you're dead.  Which makes little sense, but there you go.)  So we get pushes to the Western markets of some of the bigger titles: ArchLord, Evo, Lineage, Aion, Tera, and now B&S.  Each one, hoping to be able to suck some of the numbers from WoW.  But here in the West, grindtastic MMOs are also falling in popularity -- WoW is almost unrecognizable now compared to when it launched.  The grindariffic games are trying to show they're still popular when I suspect their popularity is waning, perhaps even rapidly.

So you get games -- both East and West -- with gimmicks, some new system or feature that's supposed to be, not a WoW-killer, but a relevance-maker.  Something to put the game on the map.  With B&S, it appears to be... well, softcore porn.

This is a troubling trend, because it means it may take what we know of as MMOs out with the grindish games.

I for one am not ready to surrender the kind of creativity and fun I had with CoH to poorly-understood market forces.  This is why I support Plan Z, and games like Vendetta Online, and efforts to address NCsoft's boneheaded decision.  Because isn't it about time we stopped being reliant on corporations for our social/escapist fun?


* - I admit to a Wayne's World style when approaching 'grind' as an adjective.  "If it were a president, FFXI would be Grindaham Lincoln."  "If it were a tank, it would be an M1 Grindams."  And... so on. ... Imma go to a corner in shame, now.

[Knightslayer]

From their FAQ;

Is Blade & Soul going to be a grinding game like some other MMOs?


 Executive Producer James Bae said it best: "I assure you, Blade & Soul will never run out of content to keep players engaged in the game. This game will not be a repetitive grind fest."

Of course it's all in the eye of the beholder... "not a grind fest" could mean something completely different to them than it does to us.

[emu265]

Emphasis mine.  I will admit that, Liefeld-esque female characters aside, it's reasonably pretty, at least as pretty as I found Aion.  But I found Lineage 2's NA localization beta to be pretty as well at the time.  'Pretty' does not make a good game.

Pure speculation incoming:

The industry, thankfully, seems to be moving away from grindalicious* games.  This may be why so many Eastern market games are trying to make inroads into the huge NA and EU gamer/MMOer markets: The market in SE Asia is saturated, and these games need to grow to show they're still viable.  (If you're not growing, you're dead.  Which makes little sense, but there you go.)  So we get pushes to the Western markets of some of the bigger titles: ArchLord, Evo, Lineage, Aion, Tera, and now B&S.  Each one, hoping to be able to suck some of the numbers from WoW.  But here in the West, grindtastic MMOs are also falling in popularity -- WoW is almost unrecognizable now compared to when it launched.  The grindariffic games are trying to show they're still popular when I suspect their popularity is waning, perhaps even rapidly.

So you get games -- both East and West -- with gimmicks, some new system or feature that's supposed to be, not a WoW-killer, but a relevance-maker.  Something to put the game on the map.  With B&S, it appears to be... well, softcore porn.

This is a troubling trend, because it means it may take what we know of as MMOs out with the grindish games.

I for one am not ready to surrender the kind of creativity and fun I had with CoH to poorly-understood market forces.  This is why I support Plan Z, and games like Vendetta Online, and efforts to address NCsoft's boneheaded decision.  Because isn't it about time we stopped being reliant on corporations for our social/escapist fun?


* - I admit to a Wayne's World style when approaching 'grind' as an adjective.  "If it were a president, FFXI would be Grindaham Lincoln."  "If it were a tank, it would be an M1 Grindams."  And... so on. ... Imma go to a corner in shame, now.

Pretty most certainly does not make a good game, but it sure does grab attention.  It can also make a reasonably okay game venture into "good" territory.  What I meant was that this game may generate a lot of hype, even if it sucks and even if it is softcore porn. 

Said, City of Heroes is undoubtedly the better game... but those who have never played it may not see it that way if they're just looking at screenshots.  In this way, I agree and support Plan Z.  But I also want to save Cities.

[emu265]

From their FAQ;

Of course it's all in the eye of the beholder... "not a grind fest" could mean something completely different to them than it does to us.

Well said.  I don't think any new game could match the eight years of content and innovation that have gone into City of Heroes. 

[V-Mink]

From their FAQ;

Of course it's all in the eye of the beholder... "not a grind fest" could mean something completely different to them than it does to us.

It also reflects what I mentioned as (what I see as) a growing backlash or at least "growing dislike" against grindfests.  I distinctly remember people complaining about grinding in games being mocked and belittled, being told 'deal with it' and 'learn to play' and similarly... witty comments.  The conceit was that if a game wasn't grindy, it wasn't worthwhile, and that nothing you could get in 30 minutes would be worth the same as something you had to grind through 3 or 30 hours.  It was also a sign of... something, I'm not sure what, but some flavor of online machismo, to be able to say you 'survived' some level of grinding.

We're moving away from that, thankfully.  But this is having an effect on publishers.  Hence why someone can ask the above question and not be mocked, and the publisher is trying hard to give the impression that B&S won't be grindy.  I find it very hard to believe that a game made by a Korean developer* out of that whole corpus of games that define 'grind' would not itself be grindy.  We'll see -- more to the point, other people will see.  They'll need a mass of content at least the equal of TOR to accomplish that and a content release schedule more punishing than CoH's. 

STO made it possible to hit level cap in a month of fairly strong semi-casual playing.  (In fact I found myself wishing it were a little more grindy.  Then I tried to play a Klingon.  )  Such a change from FFXI!  And the sentiments behind the model seem to be sticking.


* - Team Bloodlust.  Really?  Really?!  Sigh.

[emu265]

It also reflects what I mentioned as (what I see as) a growing backlash or at least "growing dislike" against grindfests.  I distinctly remember people complaining about grinding in games being mocked and belittled, being told 'deal with it' and 'learn to play' and similarly... witty comments.  The conceit was that if a game wasn't grindy, it wasn't worthwhile, and that nothing you could get in 30 minutes would be worth the same as something you had to grind through 3 or 30 hours.  It was also a sign of... something, I'm not sure what, but some flavor of online machismo, to be able to say you 'survived' some level of grinding.

We're moving away from that, thankfully.  But this is having an effect on publishers.  Hence why someone can ask the above question and not be mocked, and the publisher is trying hard to give the impression that B&S won't be grindy.  I find it very hard to believe that a game made by a Korean developer* out of that whole corpus of games that define 'grind' would not itself be grindy.  We'll see -- more to the point, other people will see.  They'll need a mass of content at least the equal of TOR to accomplish that and a content release schedule more punishing than CoH's. 

STO made it possible to hit level cap in a month of fairly strong semi-casual playing.  (In fact I found myself wishing it were a little more grindy.  Then I tried to play a Klingon.  )  Such a change from FFXI!  And the sentiments behind the model seem to be sticking.


* - Team Bloodlust.  Really?  Really?!  Sigh.

Part of me likes grinding because I like feeling like I'm getting somewhere.  I have bittersweet nostalgia for Cities' old leveling curve.  I am also a huge of fan of having a Blastoise before fighting Lt. Surge (and other similar feats).  But I dislike when it's required.  Being said, I'm not sure what bearing this has on Cities... because Cities has moved so far away from grinding.

[jediknightcub]

Well, they just lost the gay male gamer contingent.

Big tits? Big whoop. 

[emu265]

Well, they just lost the gay male gamer contingent.

Big tits? Big whoop. 

Oh, emu approves.

Even moreso that this is your first post.  Welcome, friend!

[V-Mink]

Part of me likes grinding because I like feeling like I'm getting somewhere.  I have bittersweet nostalgia for Cities' old leveling curve.  I am also a huge of fan of having a Blastoise before fighting Lt. Surge (and other similar feats).  But I dislike when it's required.  Being said, I'm not sure what bearing this has on Cities... because Cities has moved so far away from grinding.

Mostly because whether a game is grindy or not affects the business model.  If a game is extremely grindy, you can get away with reducing replayability of content, being assured that some percentage of players will play to the bitter, bitter level cap.  If it's not grindy, you have to either rely on player churn -- new players replacing old, bored players -- or be constantly developing new content; or a mix of both.   Some games (like STO) started out supplementing the lack of content -- and the lack of ability to retain players -- with microtransaction stores.  (STO has since added in a grindier mechanic as well as part of Cryptic's purchase by Perfect World.)

I'm not completely against grind.  It can be gratifying and satisfying to complete a marathon, so to speak, within the game, of killing HOW MANY?! Rikti monkeys.   But grind can go to unhappy places with surprising speed.

To relate it to the topic at hand, a 'realignment of company focus' could, in addition to putting out a softcore porn game, easily mean they want to keep more players playing their games, which means more grind.  Lemon boobs, legs taking up half the body's height, and lolicons can only occupy players for so long.  I would say to count on a microtransaction store being involved with the game as well, even if it will be subscription.

[TimtheEnchanter]

From their FAQ;

Of course it's all in the eye of the beholder... "not a grind fest" could mean something completely different to them than it does to us.

Maybe it just means they toss you into PvP right from the start (since PvP seems to be the only reason Korea plays MMO's AT ALL), instead of making you level up first before you can be proficient at it.

[Colette]

NC-Softcore

"Oh, God, my sides!  /applause."

Thank'ya.

"LOL!! Quote of the Month! Dare I incorporate that into my next cartoon panel I wonder?"

All yours, consider it public domain. Perhaps it's Mr. Kim's secret identity. Sounds like a rapper, doesn't it? Do a rap song and give us the B&S bimbos Carameldansin to it, maybe.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Oh gawd, a hip hop artist named NC Softcore doing a parody of "Get Low"?

Someone doooooo eeeeeeet!!