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Graveyard => Save Paragon Retirees => Save Paragon City! => Topic started by: Captain Electric on May 15, 2013, 06:28:40 AM
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Was going to file this under "City of Heroes", but you know what? Saving Paragon City was never just about the video game, it is also about the family of players and devs, and I was very excited to see Sean "Dr. Aeon" McCann's tweet today. See it for yourself!
https://twitter.com/SeanMcCann14/status/332998106683682817
Like Posi said, he's contracting for now, but the future has got to be bright for one of our favorite heroes!
Grats Posi!!!
(https://imageshack.us/a/img407/7443/10969cox010803v309.jpg)
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Yep, I saw that on Twitter the other day. So I'm going to give STO another shot just to support our developers.
For those of you who play Neverwinter, Sean McCann also wrote a Foundry mission -- the ID is NW-DJODAC5XJ. I haven't played it yet, but I loved his work for City of Heroes, so I'm looking forward to it.
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Any chance you could repost what he said in that tweet? Twitter is blocked from my school's network, and I currently have no internet at home... :-\
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I've heard STO has come a long way since launch, may need to check it out again.
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Any chance you could repost what he said in that tweet? Twitter is blocked from my school's network, and I currently have no internet at home... :-\
Here ya go:
Open beta for #StarTrekOnline, Legacy of Romulus, is on now! Check out @MMODesigner's Klingon tutorial, and my work on the Romulan tutorial!
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Well then. One game just got noticably awesomer, didn't it?
That's great news! Congrats to Posi! ;D
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I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, definitely congrats to Positron. (That part is unqualified, by the way)
On the other hand... why does Cryptic keep hiring ex-devs from the #1 superhero game of all time and then not putting them on their superhero game? Sheesh! Champions needs all the help it can get! :D
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On the other hand... why does Cryptic keep hiring ex-devs from the #1 superhero game of all time and then not putting them on their superhero game? Sheesh! Champions needs all the help it can get! :D
Quoted for truth!
Kudos to Matt for getting some sort of work, especially if it's work he enjoys. STO can only benefit from his work.
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I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, definitely congrats to Positron. (That part is unqualified, by the way)
On the other hand... why does Cryptic keep hiring ex-devs from the #1 superhero game of all time and then not putting them on their superhero game? Sheesh! Champions needs all the help it can get! :D
I think its the same problem Paragon Studios had with City of Villains. Champions doesn't have enough players to justify the investment...but they don't have many players because of the lack of investment.
I wish the best for Champions, but when you butcher the launch and early months of a game like they did, then let it spend time languishing in maintenance mode, there's probably no way to turn that ship around. Atari really has the blame here, from all accounts I've heard they were doing their best to kill off Champions and it shows.
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On the other hand... why does Cryptic keep hiring ex-devs from the #1 superhero game of all time and then not putting them on their superhero game? Sheesh! Champions needs all the help it can get! :D
I think the problem is that you can only kick a dead horse so many times before people wonder why you keep kicking it. It's dead, just let it die in peace... :P
Seriously though, I tried Champions before, wasn't a fan. Tried it again about a week ago, still wasn't a fan, and had someone yelling at me over skype for two hours strait to just "stop it" and play something good... I just wanted to finish the tutorial, was surprised to find I wasn't stranded in some random desert like the last time I played but rather a city, felt board that flight was so sluggishly slow(even with the speed progression thingy maxed out), and couldn't handle the dumbed down controls any longer. I gave it a serious effort, but it's really just not my style of game... :-\
Oh, and thanks for re-posting the tweet, eabrace, I think I may actually need to start getting back into Star Trek again. :D
I purchased a lifetime subscription for ST:O back just before launch when they offered them, but I've only logged in and played a hand full of times since then due to my busy schedule with school, work, and other new shiny games that always get in the way... It's a fun game, don't get me wrong, I just haven't had time to really get into it. :(
Edit: In retrospective, my "dead horse" joke could probably be turned back around on us with City of Heroes... I just made myself sad... :'(
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In regards to a "dead horse", understand that I've been playing Champions since September. From what I can tell, the population in that game is maybe half, at -most-, of what CoH was. The game isn't spread across many servers, just instances. And at peak hours there's maybe only a couple hundred people in the most populated Zone (Millennium City).
Nobody should let it die, though. I think it's in the same position we wish CoH was in -right now-. A skeleton crew to keep a game going that a crowd, however small, seems to love. And adding just enough things to it, to keep it profitable. The fact that it's still alive with an active community should stand as an example to follow. Not shunned because it didn't turn out quite the success of its spiritual predecessor.
Regarding Star Trek? I've had a lifer subscription for some time. I think it's the game that Champions should've been. And the Paragon Studios influence in this new expansion is -blatant-! And I love it. The new faction, Romulans, functions and interacts with the main material in almost the exact same way Praetoria did for Going Rogue! Romulans have two conflicting factions of the republic/resistance and the Tal'Shiar/Loyalists. And upon reaching a certain level, you choose whether to go blue or red (Federation and Klingon respectively.) It brings me RIGHT back to the day I bought Going Rogue and makes me smile that their touch hasn't been lost in recent events.
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I wish I could drum up the interest to play the Star Trek MMO... but this really seems to be one of those cases where not being a fan of the IP sort of makes working up to playing the game a tough nut to crack. :-\
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This seems weird, because I read on the internet somewhere that the only reason Positron killed off Staesman was because he was consumed with a frenzied hatred of Jack.
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This seems weird, because I read on the internet somewhere that the only reason Positron killed off Staesman was because he was consumed with a frenzied hatred of Jack.
It's called having bills.
Can make even the worse boss worth working for again if you have a family to provide for.
(And not that I ever read anything confirming that Matt and Jack had a bad relationship.)
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I played pretty heavily for a while and then just stopped. It was cool, because I really am a fan of the IP, but I may have burned myself out on this. I popped in for some giveaway over Christmas, and that was about it for the past year. I'll give this new expansion a try, but, given the state of CO and the problems that they're having with NWO, I may give it a month or two after the official launch.
All that said, happy to see something from Posi that we can go play with! :)
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I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, definitely congrats to Positron. (That part is unqualified, by the way)
On the other hand... why does Cryptic keep hiring ex-devs from the #1 superhero game of all time and then not putting them on their superhero game? Sheesh! Champions needs all the help it can get! :D
Ummm... maybe because when you do software development and your creating jobs for good people - - there may not be a position for them on the project you WANT them on because there's not a lot of funds there, so rather than just not hire them you find them a job somewhere that they can at least stay in the company and get paid while you work out how to get them where they do fit?
He's contracting. It means they found him a job. It means they're finding a lot of the devs jobs.
Right now in the IT industry the fact those jobs aren't just going to somewhere overseas or on an H1B Visa is amazing. Give Cryptic some serious props for finding positions for these guys, it's not like their games are beating down the market right now but they're still hiring - and apparently good people.
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Also keep in mind, putting former CoH devs on Champions may or may not be what those devs would want in the first place. Think about it. Before CoH's closure, the prospect might have been "the stuff of nightmares" for any dev happily employed at Paragon. Given the opportunity to work at STO (or NW)--two games that are enjoying scads of player and publisher funding and resources, a playground of possibilities and toys for developers--or the opportunity to work with limited resources, creating lock box rewards for Champions, which would you choose? I wouldn't choose CO.
I like Champions. It's definitely no City of Heroes, not even in the same league as far as I'm concerned. But I like it. The problem over there seems to be that the players and publisher have, in unison, withdrawn their funding from that game. For the small group of players who are pumping money into it still, it IS meeting expectations according to CR Trailturtle. It's just that those expectations are low. Like someone said recently around here, every publisher has that "magic number" for profit that a game has to meet; and when it dips below, it's time to put it to rest. PWE seems to be willing to lower that bar of expectations as its various games age (prematurely, in CO's case). I hope some of CO's players can find room to be grateful for this.
Because, like MakoMako said above (and well said, I might add), CO is enjoying the same state of being that many of you have said you would have GLADLY settled for if it kept COH playable for a few more years at least. True, CO never got the chance to blossom. I think we can well assume that its potential IS blossoming though--in Star Trek Online and Neverwinter.
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Not to derail the thread, but this is what sickens me about the game (CO). I came to City of Heroes because Champions had been one of my favorite PnP games. I was just getting my younger son into CoH when the announcement hit. Right now, I'm easing him into the old D&D red box before the math-fest that is the 2nd/3rd edition of Champs that I have.
There is a lot that CO does that I like, but there is also a lot where the game falls down. I don't in any way want CO to be my replacement for CoH, or I wouldn't be here. That said, I do hate seeing the MMO version of one of my favorite PnP games in such a state, and a part of me does want to see it get some love.
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I think its the same problem Paragon Studios had with City of Villains. Champions doesn't have enough players to justify the investment...but they don't have many players because of the lack of investment.
I wish the best for Champions, but when you butcher the launch and early months of a game like they did, then let it spend time languishing in maintenance mode, there's probably no way to turn that ship around. Atari really has the blame here, from all accounts I've heard they were doing their best to kill off Champions and it shows.
While its a well known fact I am not CO's biggest fan, I could always see the potential in it. Sadly, at this point, it seems that the only way to save the game would be to effectively tear it completely down amd rebuild it. Since that costs oodles of money and time and is not likely to be done, I think CO is doomed to exist right where it is now. Still, if perfect world and Cryptic were thinking along those lines, they do have some folks on the payroll that just might know what they're doing.
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Is it bad that I'm holding on to a faint hope that the secret project mentioned as being in development on Cryptic's website is another superhero game, possibly even Champions 2? (Or CoH 2, but that's extremely unlikely unfortunately. :()
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Ummm... maybe because when you do software development and your creating jobs for good people - - there may not be a position for them on the project you WANT them on because there's not a lot of funds there, so rather than just not hire them you find them a job somewhere that they can at least stay in the company and get paid while you work out how to get them where they do fit?
He's contracting. It means they found him a job. It means they're finding a lot of the devs jobs.
Right now in the IT industry the fact those jobs aren't just going to somewhere overseas or on an H1B Visa is amazing. Give Cryptic some serious props for finding positions for these guys, it's not like their games are beating down the market right now but they're still hiring - and apparently good people.
This post has enough truthy goodness that I'm just quoting it in its entirety.
Cryptic is doing the thing I want second-most when it comes to MMOs (the first being, re-opening COH...): They are helping to take care of/employing some of the people who created a game that I loved (and still love). Yes, I know - hiring talented people is its own reward for a company. But I can't over-state how important it is to me that Cryptic and other studios are helping take care of the people who gave me so much joy.
So I'm going to break my own rule. I'm going to actually spend money on an MMO, which I've not done since the closure of CoH was announced. And it's going to be a Cryptic game.
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I don't think that most of the ex-Paragon Devs would say, "Hey, I wanna work on Champions!"
It'd have to be frustrating working on a game that has even less advertising and support than COH did ... especially when the same company has an existing game and an upcoming game that's getting a lot of kudos from players and the gaming press.
That being said, I find it a darn shame that CO hasn't gotten more love and attention.
Some of the writing and game mechanics are very good.
Last night, for instance, I did Apocalypse Aversion ... the finale to Vibora Bay, and it has a game mechanic that I never saw in any other game that I've played. It was clever, but simple. (I don't want to say much so as to avoid spoiling it for any other players, but it involved teammates working together to destroy an obstacle in a way that didn't involve "punching it until it's gone".) The entire mission took nearly 3 hours, but I and the other players had a good time doing it.
But I don't see Cryptic/PW putting any more effort into the game to try to increase it's player base or revenue which is a sad thing.
Hopefully Matt gets a permanent position that allows him a little more career stability.
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Hopefully Matt gets a permanent position that allows him a little more career stability.
It appears that Matt does have a permanent position with Cryptic Studios.
Star Trek Online's latest dev blog was signed "Matt Miller - Content Designer - Star Trek Online"
Legacy of Romulus Dev Blog #20 by Matt Miller (http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=892951)
And yes, I do feel like an idiot for starting a thread about it when this thread already existed.
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good for him. good for him.
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Am I the only one whose takeaway (other than Matt seeming to have full-time work; WTG, Matt!) was that all Klingon PCs starting at level 1 are now the son or daughter of Worf? Maybe I misread that...
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To be honest, I've got a lot of good feelings for Cryptic over how they handled the shutdown of City of Heroes and how they've stepped up and taken on a lot of the former Paragon Studios developers. I've thrown some money their way as a result as well. It's not so much that I'm head-over-heels in love with their games--though to be sure, they're pretty neat--but I just feel like right now, they're the closest thing to a company that treats a community with respect as we've got.
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I gotta agree with Tony on this. Cryptic has made a small fortune off of me for Neverwinter, even with Champions Online being a bit of a sore spot. (Although, that job ad is mysteriously direct, isn't it?)
Besides, I'm directing the full might of my Ray Beam of Angry Anger at NCSoft. :P
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I gotta agree with Tony on this. Cryptic has made a small fortune off of me for Neverwinter, even with Champions Online being a bit of a sore spot. (Although, that job ad is mysteriously direct, isn't it?)
Besides, I'm directing the full might of my Ray Beam of Angry Anger at NCSoft. :P
Yeah I spend a decent amount each month on the game CO.
Dont care for lockboxes but hey, screw it, I figure I buy a couple hundred bucks worth of keys every two weeks or so and just give away and or sell the stuff. Just doing my part in supporting thta game and Cryptic.
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Am I the only one whose takeaway (other than Matt seeming to have full-time work; WTG, Matt!) was that all Klingon PCs starting at level 1 are now the son or daughter of Worf? Maybe I misread that...
You did, yes. As I read it, you meet Worf's son in the tutorial but that's an NPC, not you.
Also despite the long-running complete lack of the attention needed to turn the game around I remain subscribed to CO. Why? Because it's the only game out there now where I'm my own character, not generic elf/jedi/starfleet officer #6495. One of the few things they really did get right with that game.
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You did, yes. As I read it, you meet Worf's son in the tutorial but that's an NPC, not you.
Oh, that's better!
The one thing that I liked about this Star Trek game was that it takes the best elements of each prior game that does whichever particular thing they wanted to put in this game. I've played just about every game that has been made in the ST IP (I think Klingon Academy and Elite Force II are the only ones I skipped), and each one has been disappointing to one degree or another. This game is good, but I still can't get into it. This does make me want to give it another shot, because CO is becoming depressing.
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Yep, I saw that on Twitter the other day. So I'm going to give STO another shot just to support our developers.
For those of you who play Neverwinter, Sean McCann also wrote a Foundry mission -- the ID is NW-DJODAC5XJ. I haven't played it yet, but I loved his work for City of Heroes, so I'm looking forward to it.
Play it. It's really good. Give yourself an hour, though. It's more like an arc wrapped into one quest.
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To be honest, I've got a lot of good feelings for Cryptic over how they handled the shutdown of City of Heroes and how they've stepped up and taken on a lot of the former Paragon Studios developers. I've thrown some money their way as a result as well. It's not so much that I'm head-over-heels in love with their games--though to be sure, they're pretty neat--but I just feel like right now, they're the closest thing to a company that treats a community with respect as we've got.
I feel the same way. I subbed to CO for a few months because of how they handled the shut down, and now I'm throwing my money at Neverwinter. Cryptic has become my new home. I'm also grateful because I got an invitation from them to start testing Neverwinter two weeks before the shut down and it helped me immensely both to help form a new community and to have something to play that I actually enjoyed. It made things way easier for me, so yeah, Cryptic has my love.
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STO has improved greatly, since the paragon devs have been there.
Neverwinter is a decent game. Miss a superhero MMO, though. Can't get into CO. Might give it another shot this weekend. It's great that Cryptic has picked up so many of the devs. Good luck Matt and the rest of you guys!
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Congrats to the artist and developer formerly known as Positron! Congrats, Matt, and congrats, STO!! May you both live long and prosper! ;)
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STO has improved greatly, since the paragon devs have been there.
Neverwinter is a decent game. Miss a superhero MMO, though. Can't get into CO. Might give it another shot this weekend. It's great that Cryptic has picked up so many of the devs. Good luck Matt and the rest of you guys!
It often helps to have friends and make friends in CO. ATM half of my friends in CO are either from CoX or strictly native to CO. Otherwise i'd have moved on by now to be honest. I am hoping CO gets some updates soon myself, particularly in content and power balancing(i'd like to see more useful stuff in force and telepathy, or rather more useful stuff.)
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I am hoping CO gets some updates soon myself, particularly in content and power balancing(i'd like to see more useful stuff in force and telepathy, or rather more useful stuff.)
There are telepathy updates and a couple of new powers on the Champions test server now.
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Hard to believe I forgot that detail. I'll check them out.
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There are telepathy updates and a couple of new powers on the Champions test server now.
wait...did you say "New powers"? Actual new powers? Not re-release of something they had before but took away and now bringing it back? New, like someone thought of the concept, drew it out, tweaked it, tested it, back to drawingboard, retweaked, animated it, tested, and release to test server new?
Cool stuff.
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wait...did you say "New powers"? Actual new powers? Not re-release of something they had before but took away and now bringing it back? New, like someone thought of the concept, drew it out, tweaked it, tested it, back to drawingboard, retweaked, animated it, tested, and release to test server new?
Cool stuff.
I know right? I hope to try them out after I get back home. I am currently working(from home, this is my last day though :(.) But things are so slow to the point i'm able to read here. I was told a while ago but i'll be checking them for certain today, even without my better VGA(awaiting a new cooling block for it). Sadly I got a family get together after work, :(.
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Any work Posi does in this industry will improve the industry, and I'm really glad he's found gainful employment, times are a bit skinny for lots of folks right now. I couldn't think more highly of the guy :). There was a big, though only wistful, flurry of conversation on the CO forums about getting Matt Miller on Champions. Oh what a wonderful world that would be.
By the way, I would like to address some of the comments about Champions on this thread. I just don't understand why some in this community want to treat Champions like the enemy. If it is a dead horse (and it amazingly isn't yet, there are lots of people playing and they desperately WANT more), then it's only because either Perfect World or Cryptic or both--I'm not sure which--is neglecting and starving it to death quite blatantly and shamelessly.
I know some here don't like the look and feel of the game, which is fair enough, but I think it's getting confusingly strong hate from some seemingly because it's not CoH, which isn't really fair. And, quite frankly, it's gone so undeveloped that if it ever got a dose of good development (say, from MATT MILLER :P, and some good artists), they could go just about any direction that they wanted with it, because so little has been done that it is still a fairly blank slate.
Anyway, Champions is a time-honored IP, it is in many real ways the father of City of Heroes, and I hate to see it treated so badly by Jack, Cryptic, Perfect World, and even some of the forumites here. There is still real potential in that game, but, at this point, it does look like there's about a .01% chance it'll ever be developed at all, for good or bad. It's not a dead horse, it's a perfectly good horse that is slowly being killed by intentional neglect.
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I like the Champions lore and I think Vibora Bay is fabulous. The comic series and adventure packs are also really well done. But they seem to be going down a lockbox/alert path that just doesn't appeal to me.
I still check in from time to time and I was encouraged to see the telepathy changes. If they added a full-blown powerset (nature, staff, water, etc.) or a new comic series or (be still my heart) a whole new zone I'd definitely resub for a bit.
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I don't consider CO the "enemy". I consider it the game that could have replaced CoH in my heart if only the company who ran it gave a damn. They could have had tens of thousands of new permanent subscribers (including me) when CoH went down if they'd spent the months between August 31 and November 30th gearing up for it, introducing new zones and new content (particularly new low-level arcs for all the altoholics) and filling in gaps in the existing powersets and such.
But they don't. And that's tragic.
There's so much potential there, but while I still hadn't run out of things to do in CoH when the game shut down, I felt I'd gotten all I could out of CO in only two months.
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I agree Thunder, I gave CO a chance and it was fun for about a few months but I got bored with it and just wanted COH back. I honestly feel that NCsoft has some secret plan behind the closure of COH cause it makes no sense to me. I think that one day we'll look up and see a new COH type game, who knows maybe from NCsoft, the probelm is will we care to play or invest time in it. For me....probably not!
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I agree with both of you, but my point is that it is because it is... well, not even just an unfinished game, more like a barely begun game. With the right love and attention, it could could still be worthy of the hoary IP it comes from. Man, if there were only a way to make that happen.
I will say I started a toon at lvl 6 and DIDN'T use Alerts to fly through levels, and I was surprised how much good leveling content there was when you actually just leveled the old fashioned way.
It's baffling how the whole industry is treating the Superhero niche right now. There isn't any doubt that the potential is there, but they don't want to take the road less traveled, just churn and burn the same old stuff. It's like they're scared to touch it.
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I agree with both of you, but my point is that it is because it is... well, not even just an unfinished game, more like a barely begun game. With the right love and attention, it could could still be worthy of the hoary IP it comes from. Man, if there were only a way to make that happen.
I will say I started a toon at lvl 6 and DIDN'T use Alerts to fly through levels, and I was surprised how much good leveling content there was when you actually just leveled the old fashioned way.
It's baffling how the whole industry is treating the Superhero niche right now. There isn't any doubt that the potential is there, but they don't want to take the road less traveled, just churn and burn the same old stuff. It's like they're scared to touch it.
I feel that way aobut MMO's in general, rather than just super hero mmo's. Many seem to fail to realise that it's innovation that wins in game development, all it takes is implementing it right. Rather then adding fake longevity mmo's should be focused on making quests/missions more entertaining and well paced, instead of slow "kick 150 guys butts" or "collect 20 of this, oh it'll only drop 10% of the time!". Instead if you focus on keeping quests objective-oriented with good dialogue and the like, it can go much faster and at the same time be just as rewarding. Alternate level paths with such quests helps even more.