Status Update (October 2)

[chaparralshrub]

Not really. I got the distinct impression that they've told Hit Streak about as much (or in this case, as little) as they've told us.

I get the impression, not from HitStreak but from Positron, that they have told them more than they've told us. At least, Posi was part of the negotiating force, and they're not negotiating any more (at least, not that he knows of).

[emu265]

I get the impression, not from HitStreak but from Positron, that they have told them more than they've told us. At least, Posi was part of the negotiating force, and they're not negotiating any more (at least, not that he knows of).

I did not know Posi was part of the negotiations.  That alone tells me he knows more than we do, because he knows how NCsoft turned them down.

[Codewalker]

I get the impression, not from HitStreak but from Positron, that they have told them more than they've told us. At least, Posi was part of the negotiating force, and they're not negotiating any more (at least, not that he knows of).

By necessity people like a business manager, an investor, or even a development lead might be in on those sessions.

Assistant Community Manager? Yeah, sorry to say it but they're not going to tell him any more than they have to to do his job.

If he's still working for NCsoft his own former coworkers may not even be able to tell him what's going on without putting him in a bad spot. It's a sucky position to be in.

[Lost.Ninja]

I have immense respect for TonyV and all the other people who have put so much effort into the plan to in some way save City of Heroes. But (you could hear that coming I guess) I for one have given up, I don't see either the IP or the game being saved. Even if the IP could be bought it is doubtful it would be in the price range for crowd sourcing. I'm not an industry insider I don't *know* how much a successful computer game IP is worth but I'd expect multiple millions.

If it were out of character for NCSoft to just shut something down with little or no warning, then yes you might have had a chance but with NCSoft's track record I was pretty certain from when I heard the announcement that this was the end of things.

And for the record even though I stopped playing (paying for) the game a better part of a year ago CoH was my first real MMO, my online alter-ego is still my 2nd try at a scrapper (my 1st a Fitness free Dark/Dark was deleted shortly before the release of i4 due to being completely gimped), I played from the EU beta and so far all the other games I've played have been rated by the CoH standard and no so far none have quite achieved it... GW2 is close but not quite there.

City of Heroes has helped me keep my mental disfunctionality from doing more damage than it ought, given me an outlet into which I can push the person I should be into something approaching reality. I won't say that CoH has stopped me from ending it all... or trying... but only because that could be laid at the door of any MMO I play (I guess).

But no I never believed CoH could be saved.

And why post this negative view here? Because rather than vowing to RE the server so that Titan et al can bring up 'pirate' versions of the game the annoucement should be looked at as the call to actually get on with a new project. It might not end up as Phoenix City (I don't really care for that name myself). Fan led reanimations of closed MMOs do happen...? I don't know of any myself, but they must happen? Right? ((That is closed MMOs that the fans recreate/reverse engineer to bring up servers for fans to play on and don't get sued by the original owners.))

Fan led recreating of games that are no longer updated... or are abandoned by their devs, or the devs vanish... etc... ((FreeCiv - Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe - Spring Engine (Total Annihilation) - And many others.))

Now those do happen, so maybe instead of concentrating on the dubious legal possibility of recreating copyright material (Tabula Rasa fans failed at that) concentrate on something they cannot prevent!

TL:DR
City of Heroes is Dead - Long live Phoenix City (or similar).

[Blacjac84]

Well, Posi did say something about not being able to say anything until Nov 1.

Which probably means he's still under contract until the end of this month.  We'll just have to wait and see.

[chaparralshrub]

I did not know Posi was part of the negotiations.  That alone tells me he knows more than we do, because he knows how NCsoft turned them down.

I assumed that he was. I don't know for sure, I guess, but from ThorsAssassin's post at the dinner, I got that impression.

City of Heroes is Dead - Long live Phoenix City (or similar).

You are probably right, but I do find myself wondering about what can be done without NCSoft being able to track it down.

[DrakeGrimm]

You are probably right, but I do find myself wondering about what can be done without NCSoft being able to track it down.

Track what down? Plan Z? Plan Z doesn't use anything NCSoft owns. If they want to try to shut down a project they have no legal right to, let them try. I'd love to clean their clocks in a US court.

[Colette]

Honestly, I do not believe NC-Soft can survive this.

Sure, their major player-base is in Korea now. But in the highly competitive world of MMOs, I cannot imagine anyone would prefer one of the notorious "game killer's" titles to, say, Sony, who's been running and supporting Everquest since 1999. (Sony's had PR boondoggles too. Still, replacing Galaxies with SWTOR is one thing, and just cancelling a popular game is something else.)

This sort of notoriety cannot help but spread, even across the Pacific and the language barrier. NC-Soft shot themselves in the foot. The cost of continuing CoH, or even just putting it on life-support on a single server, is miniscule. Having such a strike against one's new releases, having an outspoken community of gamers posting "we hate NC-Soft!" "NC-Soft commits fraud and forgery!" "Boycott NC-Soft!" on message boards that you do not control... that is expensive!

I will go so far as to predict that NC-Soft will within the next year change its name and claim to be under new management in an attempt to put this fiasco behind them, just like any shady company.

We want to wait for Tony and the rest to confirm, of course, but I say it's time to initiate plan Z, and also to use the Internet to tell gamers worldwide why we hate this company.

Time to initiate plan "SMASH NC-SOFT!"

[TimtheEnchanter]

I wouldn't dare say all options are gone. Maybe they are right now, but that doesn't mean anything. There are other ways that CoH could end up getting sold. One example... NC can't afford not to because they need the cash. PR blunders like this can end up doing serious damage, and they've chosen the wrong city to tick off.

[chaparralshrub]

Track what down? Plan Z? Plan Z doesn't use anything NCSoft owns. If they want to try to shut down a project they have no legal right to, let them try. I'd love to clean their clocks in a US court.

I was referring to private servers. A private server with a public link to which a thousand people can play is something they could find and shut down. But a private server on a single computer with a dozen friends online at a time - and which isn't even online when said friends aren't playing - that's much harder to track down. Basically the LAN-version of CoH.

Honestly, I do not believe NC-Soft can survive this.

Sure, their major player-base is in Korea now. But in the highly competitive world of MMOs, I cannot imagine anyone would prefer one of the notorious "game killer's" titles to, say, Sony, who's been running and supporting Everquest since 1999. (Sony's had PR boondoggles too. Still, replacing Galaxies with SWTOR is one thing, and just cancelling a popular game is something else.)

I will go so far as to predict that NC-Soft will within the next year change its name and claim to be under new management in an attempt to put this fiasco behind them, just like any shady company.

Well, best case scenario, within the year NCSoft really will be under new management, and that new management will realize that there is one thing that they can do that will kill their bad reputation - bring CoH and Tabula Rasa back from the dead!

That said, we need to watch for NCSoft to try this tactic, and be ready to spread the word of their new name when they do.

[chaparralshrub]

I wouldn't dare say all options are gone. Maybe they are right now, but that doesn't mean anything. There are other ways that CoH could end up getting sold. One example... NC can't afford not to because they need the cash. PR blunders like this can end up doing serious damage, and they've chosen the wrong city to tick off.

Wrong CITIES! The heroes may be bad enough to tick off, but remember, there are VILLAINS among us, too!

[TonyV]

[frostcoh]

Well, Posi did say something about not being able to say anything until Nov 1.

Which probably means he's still under contract until the end of this month.  We'll just have to wait and see.

Where, when & link to November 1st date being mentioned please.  First I've heard that date.

[TonyV]

Where, when & link to November 1st date being mentioned please.  First I've heard that date.

It was in the Twitch.tv chat today.  He said that he is under contract to NCsoft through the end of this month due to California's WARN Act requiring 60 day notice for layoffs the magnitude of that which NCsoft incurred.  As for November 1, though, he is no longer under contract to NCsoft and will be available to do other things.

I suspect that's how long that most former Paragon Staffers have, though some might have severance packages that last longer.  So while I don't expect a flood of information on November 1, it wouldn't surprise me if stuff started trickling out.  (And to clarify, I don't mean from Matt Miller directly; probably from word-of-mouth as more devs start talking to friends who tell others.)  The reason I don't think the floodgates will open is because as a matter of professionalism, it's bad form to badmouth your former employer.  Since a lot of these folks are looking for jobs, I suspect that a lot of them will still adopt the "no comment" standpoint.  Still, that's probably an inflection point at which time we'll start getting a little more scoop about what's going on.

[SnowJackal]

I am utterly confident that the fanbase and sales for our good friend and compatriot will see no harm. Anyone here become a Mercedes Lackey fan recently?

I actually picked up Invasion to start reading it shortly before the announcement was made! I admit I'd not ever read any of Victoria's work before this but the fact it was inspired out of City of Heroes sparked my curiosity. I'm loving it immensely! So yes, newb fan, here!

[blue storm]

[Manga]

To add to what TonyV said, don't assume Posi was in on the negotiations at all.  In fact, it's highly likely he wasn't.

[SeaLily]

I will go so far as to predict that NC-Soft will within the next year change its name and claim to be under new management in an attempt to put this fiasco behind them, just like any shady company.

This is definitely going to happen.  They are mostly owned by Nexon now, and I'm sure within a year or two's time they'll simply be absorbed into Nexon entirely and effectively 'vanish'.

[Olantern]

All I got out of that press release was, "We're not talking to Brian Clayton any more.  We gave up on negotiating with the one party we decided was worthy of negotiation."  No more, no less.  This is not a sign to give up.

I do think it bears saying that the goal of efforts to save CoH is to save the game.  The minute this about taking vengeance on NCSoft rather than saving CoH, the fight to save CoH ends.

[Taceus Jiwede]

My question is do we keep sending them emails?  Not mean or aggressive emails but emails letting them know we weren't born yesterday and we don't believe for a second they have "Exhausted all options."  I know when I am trying to be shut up and I know when there is a bold face lie in front of me and NCsoft did both of those things.  So do we write more?  We got them to talk once and I am sure they figured "Oh this will shut them up"  so I think we should keep at it, keep spamming their inbox's with heart filled stories.  (However don't do this without a Call to Action from a higher up)

P.S. There is a clearly a reason why they don't want to sell this game, in the business world it is almost always some affiliate, majority stockholder, and or partner companies that think this game may compete with one of theirs or something.  I am sure they did talk to some people about buying the game other wise they would of been lying to us which is too risky.  Talking to someone and saying "No we aren't selling it" is exhausting all options if that was your one and only option.