Making our own offer for CoH...

[Lightslinger]

TL:DR Version: What's to stop us from forming a studio on paper and attempting to talk to NCsoft?

My idea: We as a community find out what it would take to file the paperwork for a studio. Basically the idea is to form a small business, say "AP33 Studios" <placeholder name> for the purpose of making contact with NCsoft.

If I, just some random internet dude, sent NCsoft an email about what it would take to buy CoH, no matter how well it was put together, they would read it as "hai ppl, i wan 2 buy gaem, y u no sell?!!1". Put that pitch in the hands of AP33 Studios and we might get somewhere.

I think if we could at least, as a community, get to the table with NCsoft, starting with NC Seattle, we might have a shot at something. I have further ideas about the pitch, operating, and possible funding, but starting with this quesiton.

I've personally started, licensed, bonded and operated a small business and honestly, the paperwork and fees was very, very minimal. Anyone know if there are any special precautions we would have to take to form a studio?

[Ironwolf]

I suggested a similar thing earlier with the Paragon Studio's folks trying to make use of Michigan's grant for games and movies to try and buy the IP and form a company in Michigan.

With the University of Michigan and Michigan State to provide future devs.......

The response wasn't pretty.

[JaguarX]

TL:DR Version: What's to stop us from forming a studio on paper and attempting to talk to NCsoft?

My idea: We as a community find out what it would take to file the paperwork for a studio. Basically the idea is to form a small business, say "AP33 Studios" <placeholder name> for the purpose of making contact with NCsoft.

If I, just some random internet dude, sent NCsoft an email about what it would take to buy CoH, no matter how well it was put together, they would read it as "hai ppl, i wan 2 buy gaem, y u no sell?!!1". Put that pitch in the hands of AP33 Studios and we might get somewhere.

I think if we could at least, as a community, get to the table with NCsoft, starting with NC Seattle, we might have a shot at something. I have further ideas about the pitch, operating, and possible funding, but starting with this quesiton.

I've personally started, licensed, bonded and operated a small business and honestly, the paperwork and fees was very, very minimal. Anyone know if there are any special precautions we would have to take to form a studio?

Good idea. I was under the impression that we already done this. I know it was being discussed, way back when the old forum was up and some on here especially the process of starting a studio. Or maybe I goti t mixed up and that was about building a new game when the community formed studio idea came up.

But overall, have to take a peak at the local ans state laws. Usually might have to contact the state of commerce in the state that the business is wanting to be registered in. Then probably should check out the IRS site to see what kind of taxes come which each type of business. Then depending on the situation, and what category the business will be registered and or fall under, and employees (if any) department of labor can give information on the processes when dealing with employees, like hiring firing, pay and stuff. But if it's just for on paper, then usually just registering and tax is the main focus.

Sounds like an interesting idea. If ya really want go for it, it's time. Although I dont think NCSoft will listen to a company named AP33 or the likes anymore than they will from the community given that the phrase is associated with this effort here and I wouldnt be surprised if they dont view it in a positive light or rather, welcome it to the table with open arms. Never know though. I've seen bigger long shots taken and thus dont see why this wouldnt hurt (unless it's already been done as suspected and there is information of the outcome that I havent come across yet or fail to remember.) Getting a business started on paper is easy.

[Lightslinger]

I'll check on Tennessee, as I said I have some experience with running a business in this state and it's all around pretty easy on the State side of things. If anyone else has any info about a state that's maybe notoriously easy, low regulations, etc, I'd be interested in hearing about that too.

I understand 100% of the community won't be behind this endeavor, just like with anything we do, but I would like this to have a LOT of community input and management rather than Lightslinger Started a Studio and is Doing Stuff.

[Illusionss]

I think the problem is that we dont have eighty million, and it would be far cheaper for us to make our own near-clone than to pay them millions of dollars.

If its not actually eighty million that they want, its going to be some ridiculous amount. They don't actually want to sell, I think they are enjoying our anguish. I really do.

[JaguarX]

I understand 100% of the community won't be behind this endeavor, just like with anything we do, but I would like this to have a LOT of community input and management rather than Lightslinger Started a Studio and is Doing Stuff.

Indeed. On the other hand that is how many now uber large and or well known stuff happen as many started off as a idea of one or very few people and most others thought they were nuts (well until the success). Facebook, Myspace, Microsoft, Apple, Walmart, DeLorean (didnt turn out so well though), Lamborghini(guy didnt like his Ferrari was told to f-off when complained and thus built his own using funds from his Lamborghini tractor company. Now many people dont even remember the Lamborghini tractors), Ford, and so on.

Eventually down the line though, money will have to be discussed. I'm sure they wont let it go without at least a few pretty pennies and a show of those pretty pennies before even talking real business.

[Lightslinger]

I think the problem is that we dont have eighty million, and it would be far cheaper for us to make our own near-clone than to pay them millions of dollars.

If its not actually eighty million that they want, its going to be some ridiculous amount. They don't actually want to sell, I think they are enjoying our anguish. I really do.

If we can get to the point where NCsoft will even hear us, I have an idea for this. We need something out of left field, potentially insane, and good for NCsoft to get them to sell...I think I've got it.

But we're not at the point for that just yet, still exploring the ins and outs of Step 1: "Paperwork a Studio" before unveiling this evil plan, scheme, shenanigan...yeah, shenanigan probably best defines this.

[JaguarX]

If we can get to the point where NCsoft will even hear us, I have an idea for this. We need something out of left field, potentially insane, and good for NCsoft to get them to sell...I think I've got it.

But we're not at the point for that just yet, still exploring the ins and outs of Step 1: "Paperwork a Studio" before unveiling this evil plan, scheme, shenanigan...yeah, shenanigan probably best defines this.

Well in that case, go for it. What is the worse that can happen? They say no? They refuse to talk? They throw out some crazy number and or terms? They already done that and it's expected by this point.

[Lightslinger]

So, everyone, here's my pitch to you, the community, on my idea for getting our game back, being real heroes, and making our world a better place;

City of Heroes: Give by Gaming

Over the 8 years of City of Heroes' life, one of the most profound things I saw from our community was its spirit for giving. Through realworldhero.com our heroes (& villains) donated $29,276.47 to charity. The CoH community is one of the most giving, kindest, most welcoming in gaming.

CoH has been gone three months now. As we've discovered, there's nothing quite like it out there. I've seen it repeated over and over "I never realized how unique CoH was." I believe there's an opportunity here. Not just in the game, the IP, but in our community most of all. There's a chance here for CoH to come back as something the world has never seen, and give in ways we never thought possible.

I propose we form a Community Studio that will run as a non-profit with all proceeds above operating costs going to charity. We approach NCsoft with the idea of licensing and eventually buying City of Heroes for the purpose of funding our charity. If we can make this work NCsoft gets the good press of helping to launch the first ever charitable MMO, we get our game, and most of all we get to help people.

Why license CoH instead of buying?
At this point our community is unable to buy CoH outright. I propose working with NCsoft on a mutually beneficial agreement that will allow us to use CoH to operate our charity. This gives NCsoft the opportunity to repair their bad press by having their name attached to this and gives us the chance to get our foot in the door and get our game back. As the studio goes on we can look into increasing our ownership of CoH.

Why not just form a traditional studio?
We need something crazy to get NCsoft's attention. They most likely don't want to sell to a competitor, as our profits will be going to charity we could hardly be considering a threat to them. By being gaming's first 100% Charity Run Studio we can generate HUGE amounts of press that would be hard to come by as a traditional studio. I believe this path will get us a lot of attention, a place at the table with NCsoft AND a chance to market the game to an entirely new group of players.

Will you be able to develop CoH?
The hope of course is to one day develop and run CoH just like Paragon Studios did. To begin with I foresee a period of set-up, launch, and maintenance that will not include much new development however. My dream is to one day have a lean studio of an amazing Freem 15 to keep CoH's development active.

So it will be a real studio with real employees?
Yes, employees of this Community Studio will be paid a fair rate for what they contribute to CoH. We will be looking into hiring professionals with industry experience.

So what goes to charity?
All profit. That is money that CoH earns after we pay operating and development costs. I believe if we can get CoH back up to the level it was when it closed we could potentially be donating hundreds of thousands to charity every year.

What charity will money go to?
That's for the community to decide. Will we form our own or will we give to an existing charity like Real World Hero does? Either way, people will be helping by City of Heroes.

So...ideas?

[JaguarX]

So, everyone, here's my pitch to you, the community, on my idea for getting our game back, being real heroes, and making our world a better place;

City of Heroes: Give by Gaming

Over the 8 years of City of Heroes' life, one of the most profound things I saw from our community was its spirit for giving. Through realworldhero.com our heroes (& villains) donated $29,276.47 to charity. The CoH community is one of the most giving, kindest, most welcoming in gaming.

CoH has been gone three months now. As we've discovered, there's nothing quite like it out there. I've seen it repeated over and over "I never realized how unique CoH was." I believe there's an opportunity here. Not just in the game, the IP, but in our community most of all. There's a chance here for CoH to come back as something the world has never seen, and give in ways we never thought possible.

I propose we form a Community Studio that will run as a non-profit with all proceeds above operating costs going to charity. We approach NCsoft with the idea of licensing and eventually buying City of Heroes for the purpose of funding our charity. If we can make this work NCsoft gets the good press of helping to launch the first ever charitable MMO, we get our game, and most of all we get to help people.

Why license CoH instead of buying?
At this point our community is unable to buy CoH outright. I propose working with NCsoft on a mutually beneficial agreement that will allow us to use CoH to operate our charity. This gives NCsoft the opportunity to repair their bad press by having their name attached to this and gives us the chance to get our foot in the door and get our game back. As the studio goes on we can look into increasing our ownership of CoH.

Why not just form a traditional studio?
We need something crazy to get NCsoft's attention. They most likely don't want to sell to a competitor, as our profits will be going to charity we could hardly be considering a threat to them. By being gaming's first 100% Charity Run Studio we can generate HUGE amounts of press that would be hard to come by as a traditional studio. I believe this path will get us a lot of attention, a place at the table with NCsoft AND a chance to market the game to an entirely new group of players.

Will you be able to develop CoH?
The hope of course is to one day develop and run CoH just like Paragon Studios did. To begin with I foresee a period of set-up, launch, and maintenance that will not include much new development however. My dream is to one day have a lean studio of an amazing Freem 15 to keep CoH's development active.

So it will be a real studio with real employees?
Yes, employees of this Community Studio will be paid a fair rate for what they contribute to CoH. We will be looking into hiring professionals with industry experience.

So what goes to charity?
All profit. That is money that CoH earns after we pay operating and development costs. I believe if we can get CoH back up to the level it was when it closed we could potentially be donating hundreds of thousands to charity every year.

What charity will money go to?
That's for the community to decide. Will we form our own or will we give to an existing charity like Real World Hero does? Either way, people will be helping by City of Heroes.

So...ideas?

I see. I have deja vu about the charity set up part. If I recall, the poster named Olantern and Osborn gives very good information. I'm not good at using the search option and finding old links to the postings but if I recall, it was towards the sept.-nov. time period about the pros and cons of setting up a charity like entity.

Here are a few I managed to re-come across that discuss about the non-profit charity thing. Some applied to Plan Z in it's relatively early stages.

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,4914.msg45265.html#msg45265
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5985.0.html
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5554.0.html
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5018.0.html

[downix]

You are aware that at least one group of us already has our own studio, yes?

[Lightslinger]

You are aware that at least one group of us already has our own studio, yes?

I would love to have MWM be the Studio for this. I just wasn't sure if they'd want to be involved. In my mind right now MWM IS the Community Studio, they should be the ones to do this but I didn't want to speak out of turn. I would love to talk to some of the MWM management regarding this.

[dwturducken]

I think MWM has other things on their plate...

[Victoria Victrix]

The initial paperwork of creating a studio--on paper--is probably trivial.

NCSoft is going to want to know the following:

How much money do you have?
What do you mean, you don't have any money?
How many employees do you have?
What do you mean, you don't have any employees?
How do you propose to pay for all this?
Where is your detailed business proposal?
What do you mean, you don't have one?

Sorry to be Debbie Downer here, but I predict that you probably won't get past question 2.  We already KNOW they turned down two other small studios which actually had SOME money and employees and business plans.  We already KNOW they turned down Paragon itself, which had an offer of 8 figures on the table. 

[Samuraiko]

If I win the lottery, I will offer NCsoft up to $25 million for the IP, the code, the whole enchilada.

1) If they take the offer, excellent.
2) If they don't, I will use that $25 million to take out full-page ads in every single gaming magazine, newspaper, etc, that I can afford, calling NCsoft a bunch of greedy a**hats for turning down $25 million in cash.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

[Ampithere]

If I win the lottery, I will offer NCsoft up to $25 million for the IP, the code, the whole enchilada.

1) If they take the offer, excellent.
2) If they don't, I will use that $25 million to take out full-page ads in every single gaming magazine, newspaper, etc, that I can afford, calling NCsoft a bunch of greedy a**hats for turning down $25 million in cash.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

I've been playing the lottery constantly ever since they shut the servers down. Welcome to the party 

[LightofthePhoenix]

If I win the lottery, I will offer NCsoft up to $25 million for the IP, the code, the whole enchilada.

1) If they take the offer, excellent.
2) If they don't, I will use that $25 million to take out full-page ads in every single gaming magazine, newspaper, etc, that I can afford, calling NCsoft a bunch of greedy a**hats for turning down $25 million in cash.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

I too am planning to start playing the lottery for the sole purpose of getting the game back.  The difference in my plan is that having such funding would give me the opportunity to at least lean somewhat to whatever stupid price they want to sell it for.  Provided they don't request the ENTIRE winnings (so I could have money for servers, advertisements, and possibly some form of development crew) I'd be willing to give them leeway.  The big thing is that we get our game, but then they'd also get to feel like they won somehow, which I'm sure would go over well in their grubby little greedy minds.

[Joshex]

so a guy walks into NCSoft and knows nothing about videogame business and happens to own a videogame company "can I see the guy who owns CoH? I own a videogame company SEE *holds up a DBA*" the secretary says "sorry the boss is quite busy, he wishes he could talk to everyone but he doesn't have enough time"

then you either take it gracefully or throw a hissy fit and get dragged out by armed police officers. your choice.

So a guy walks into NCSoft and actually knows about videogame business and all the keywords and did propper research on who to talk to and owns a videgame business on paper "Hi I would like to make an appointment with so and so, I'm from Such and such  a studio", "I'm sorry he's not expecting you and we have never heard of you what exactly is your business with us?" says the secretary.

then speak in gave dev jargin and you are garaunteed a meeting with the guy. all you have to do is speak enough jargin to convince the secretary and whoever is on the other end of the phone she will be holding that you have some legitimate grasp of the business.

then the proposal:

no stupid I hope you didn't get an inflated Ego about yourself when you successfully got an appointment to see the guy you need to talk to, gosh.. tone yourself down a notch, that may be enogh to get you the meeting but in the meeting you will need more than speech, especially on a topic like this where the company is reluctant to sell.

Speaking from my expertice I would suggest more than just a petitionary document showing fans who want the game back or $'s and 0's

though $'s are a very important part of this issue you will need a negotionary document that proposes multiple clauses for the purchase of the IP based upon the realistic possibilities that could have deterred NCSoft from selling, aka you need to go in there with documents ready to support going forwards on very cooperative efforts to ressurect the game. this will be a neck-tie adjuster for sure, and having no money behind you you should find a way to make it profitable for them.

I could actually write such a proposal but my keyboard is broken so I would need someone else to proofread it after I'm done.

[downix]

so a guy walks into NCSoft and knows nothing about videogame business and happens to own a videogame company "can I see the guy who owns CoH? I own a videogame company SEE *holds up a DBA*" the secretary says "sorry the boss is quite busy, he wishes he could talk to everyone but he doesn't have enough time"

then you either take it gracefully or throw a hissy fit and get dragged out by armed police officers. your choice.

So a guy walks into NCSoft and actually knows about videogame business and all the keywords and did propper research on who to talk to and owns a videgame business on paper "Hi I would like to make an appointment with so and so, I'm from Such and such  a studio", "I'm sorry he's not expecting you and we have never heard of you what exactly is your business with us?" says the secretary.

then speak in gave dev jargin and you are garaunteed a meeting with the guy. all you have to do is speak enough jargin to convince the secretary and whoever is on the other end of the phone she will be holding that you have some legitimate grasp of the business.

then the proposal:

no stupid I hope you didn't get an inflated Ego about yourself when you successfully got an appointment to see the guy you need to talk to, gosh.. tone yourself down a notch, that may be enogh to get you the meeting but in the meeting you will need more than speech, especially on a topic like this where the company is reluctant to sell.

Speaking from my expertice I would suggest more than just a petitionary document showing fans who want the game back or $'s and 0's

though $'s are a very important part of this issue you will need a negotionary document that proposes multiple clauses for the purchase of the IP based upon the realistic possibilities that could have deterred NCSoft from selling, aka you need to go in there with documents ready to support going forwards on very cooperative efforts to ressurect the game. this will be a neck-tie adjuster for sure, and having no money behind you you should find a way to make it profitable for them.

I could actually write such a proposal but my keyboard is broken so I would need someone else to proofread it after I'm done.

FYI, my day job I'm an editor and proofreader.

[FatherXmas]

If I win the lottery, I will offer NCsoft up to $25 million for the IP, the code, the whole enchilada.

1) If they take the offer, excellent.
2) If they don't, I will use that $25 million to take out full-page ads in every single gaming magazine, newspaper, etc, that I can afford, calling NCsoft a bunch of greedy a**hats for turning down $25 million in cash.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

I guess one of those multi-state lottos haven't paid out in a while, seeing all these "what I would do if..." threads.

[Joshex]

FYI, my day job I'm an editor and proofreader.

ok then, after a good night's sleep i've got the angle I feel is best to write from. I'll write something up soon.

lease to own
couple that with motions to make NCSoft look like it was all part of thier plan