Status Update (October 2)

[T-Manster]

So what is their price? If they really can't find a buyer, then maybe they would "fire sale" the product. With a known number, a crowd sourcing buyout might be more achievable.
TR

[johnrobey]

I doubt this is the right place to post this HOWEVER I'm hopeful TonyV, Mr W and others will see this here.  Community Action Ideas from CoH Official Forum, copied with the original poster's permission, Rubberlad, from:  http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=4408722&posted=1#post4408722  Thread Title: Dear NCSoft Executives.... YOU'RE FIRED!

[Quote from Rubberlad]
You want a call to action? Here's your call to action:

Start sending emails to NCsoft's shareholders (including Nexon), to the media (including the Wall Street Journal), and to anyone else in Korea that will listen. List out the names of the NCsoft executives that are jeopardizing the company's ability to be profitable - and make it very clear that these individuals singlehandedly SANK NCsoft's profits and put the company's bottom line at risk BEFORE they pulled the plug on a profitable game like City of Heroes -- thereby making an already bad situation even worse. To leave the current executive leadership in charge means further jeopardizing the shareholder's investments and the company's ability to remain profitable. GET RID OF THEM!

Make your letters short, sweet and to the point! Not sure who to name? Look here: http://investing.businessweek.com/re...cker=036570:KS

It's time to stop talking to BAD MANAGEMENT that's struggling to save face and start talking to the other players in the industry who can implement *positive* changes to remove bad management... Maybe then we'll get someone at the top who will listen and reconsider our stance on City of Heroes and Paragon Studios. We CANNOT be nice anymore! So let's take some names and demand their removal...

Sun Tzu wouldn't expect anything less and neither should we!
[signature line = Last edited by Rubberlad; Today at 09:40 AM. Reason: See my post #7 for additional talking points and public information sources. ]
[END QUOTE]

I think there's some good discussion in this new thread started by Rubberlad (or I'd not have posted this here).  I'd like to see this idea discussed and integrated into ongoing Save CoH community action IF wiser and more expert action leaders on Titan endorse Rubberlad's proposal.

Additionally, on another thread I read natter, perhaps semi-serious that one tactic would be to work to bankrupt NCSoft so that they'd be forced to liquidate ALL assets, including the CoH IP.  I don't have  the business acumen to know if this is even remotely feasible and am personally interpreting this as Venting/Wishful Thinking with more than a touch of Revenge Fantasy.

[Segev]

All ideas I would normally jump on board with, johnrobey, but I suggest reading the "kibun" thread that just recently was posted.

That said, these ideas still have merit! We should, however, adjust the strategy a little. The "dance" in these letters needs to leave an out, leave room to demonstrate that not only do we care about NCSoft and its executives' kibun, but that we are seeking to directly salvage it and give them a chance to elevate, rather than shamefully damage, our own.

We still need to stay strong. But apparently, to the Korean mindset, gentle couching of the aggression is not the weakness it would be seen as to Western (and especially middle eastern) mindsets. So...be strong, be firm, but be - more than polite - ever-willing to open the door to mutual good-feelings if only they will also participate.

[SeaLily]

In light of this stuff, I think I'm most interested in hearing how progress is going on the private server stuff.  That seems to be the best bet for the game to continue on, even if it means no additional content for CoH ever again.  Though I'd be even happier if people also figured out how to add new powersets or contacts to the game, at least there'd be Mission Architect for people to make more stuff to do as long as there's still people around to play it.

I'd just really like to have some info on how it's going.

[Starsman]

I had an idea that may be so good i got my thread deleted: Amazon.com 1-Star Rating Protest Campaign.

It is a move that has worked for some in the past, at worst, it may bring attention of some press. At best, it may put enough pressure on NCSoft to stop tossing BS at us.

[Tanglefoe]

In light of this stuff, I think I'm most interested in hearing how progress is going on the private server stuff.  That seems to be the best bet for the game to continue on, even if it means no additional content for CoH ever again.  Though I'd be even happier if people also figured out how to add new powersets or contacts to the game, at least there'd be Mission Architect for people to make more stuff to do as long as there's still people around to play it.

I'd just really like to have some info on how it's going.

This!  Also, I wonder if since technically Bio Armor is on the live servers (but is somehow locked from being purchased) would a reverse engineered version of the game include Bio Armor because I'm assuming there won't be a market.

Also, I like the idea of appealing to Nexon and other shareholders because I'm pretty sure NCSoft doesn't give a crap anymore.

And another thing on private servers, I read a post a couple of weeks ago from a guy that said that he was from a country that had a "good luck enforcing that" mentality to copyrights.  Since I'm pretty sure this would be illegal in the US and some other countries, how hard would it be to set up this server (or servers) in a country with laxed laws on this?

[dwturducken]

Rubberlad's idea can fit within how I read the post on Kibun.

(Also, I'm a bit embarrassed that I was beaten to the punch on that. My goal for today was to find that sort of thing. )

Starsman, I'm assuming that you refer to something like this? I'd been mulling this one over after seeing a thread about PR, but wasn't sure how it could be applied to our efforts.  Did you have something specific in mind?

[SeaLily]

A private server is going to be illegal, plain and simple.  But that isn't something people should be worrying about.  If NCsoft isn't going to keep the game alive, they shouldn't care about someone else doing it for free. If they do, then ignore them.  They haven't cared about what the playerbase wants, so there's no reason to respect their wishes in this regard.

This isn't World of Warcraft, this isn't a game that's still alive people are offering a free alternative to paying for.  When a private server would be up, CoH itself would be gone.  If NCsoft isn't going to offer a way to play the game, then there's no reason to kowtow to them wanting to shut someone else's efforts down.  Besides, they don't care about the US market anyway, so what would it matter to them?

[Segev]

Actually...

THAT would be another thing we could work with them on, if we can approach them from a "preserve kibun" standpoint: The presence of scheduled items that nobody can access is a would to their kibun in much the way that letting somebody come in to finish work knowing that they're being fired next week would be. It would be a good move on their part to get somebody to unlock that content.

If we start working on the principle of incrementalism, we might be able to push that into "and if you'll just keep the servers running for a little longer, so people can enjoy that now-unlocked content," we might be able to "if you give a mouse a cookie" them into parting with the IP.

The idea that they don't need money NOW is a troubling one (brought up in another thread). It may mean they need something else, which we might be able to provide if we can figure out what it is. Even if it's intangible.

...maybe something as simple as large but not controlling shares in the new, separate company, preserving their ability to get profit from it without requiring them to actually support the company.

[Tanglefoe]

This isn't World of Warcraft, this isn't a game that's still alive people are offering a free alternative to paying for.  When a private server would be up, CoH itself would be gone.  If NCsoft isn't going to offer a way to play the game, then there's no reason to kowtow to them wanting to shut someone else's efforts down.  Besides, they don't care about the US market anyway, so what would it matter to them?

I don't play many other MMOs so I didn't really put the "this isn't a game that's still alive people are offering a free alternative to paying for" thought process behind my post.  You have a good point, but I'm pretty sure (and I hate to say this again) that I read in another post here that Tabula Rasa players put up a private server that NCSoft successfully shut down.  I might be wrong here, but I swear I read it right here on these forums.

[Flashtoo]

I want to add my own $0.02 to this.

Some time ago, I was thrown into a high-profile and volatile situation that offered a lot of opportunities. But because it was so volatile, a lot of those opportunities would dry up or come to nothing very quickly.

In that environment I learned, and learned fast, that real meaning of "nothing ventured, nothing gained." I had to pursue each opportunity aggressively, even while knowing that most of them wouldn't pan out. Some of those efforts looked a bit pointless at the time. But by doing things that way, I made sure that if one did work out, I was on board and could profit from it. And I did.

This outlook has stayed with me over the years, being one of the best lessons I ever learned: The only way you're guaranteed to fail is if you don't try.

Ignore what others say. If they tell you you aren't being realistic, or look stupid, or whatever--just ignore them. Such statements are at the very least defeatist, and at worst are disinformation (like the NCSoft announcement) propagated by unicorns and ringers. Keep in mind Napoleon's maxim number 16: "It is an approved maxim in war, never to do what the enemy wishes you to do, for this reason alone, that he desires it."

That is my understanting of "facing reality."

I'm also reminded of George Washington's military strategy. As long as he kept his army intact and in the field, he was winning.

So let's stay intact and in the field.

Kind of reminds me of an IC quote I made last week.

[Local] Hour Thief: You of all people ought to know that if there's one thing human beings do best, it's find something to fight about until they're either dead or victorious.


Seems we haven't been killed just yet.

[SeaLily]

I don't play many other MMOs so I didn't really put the "this isn't a game that's still alive people are offering a free alternative to paying for" thought process behind my post.  You have a good point, but I'm pretty sure (and I hate to say this again) that I read in another post here that Tabula Rasa players put up a private server that NCSoft successfully shut down.  I might be wrong here, but I swear I read it right here on these forums.

I hadn't heard about that, but it's certainly possible.  I have to imagine the public backlash to NCsoft shutting down the game and then following that up by attempting to shut down private servers for it would be pretty nasty though.  Most private servers get by as being relatively small affairs that can keep their information quiet and not attract attention, but a CoH one in the wake of the game shutting down would probably end up being fairly high-profile as far as private servers go.  So it's kind of an unorthodox situation.

[dwturducken]

Since we know they have lurkers, here, any private servers they do find will be linked to us, whether it's someone here doing it, or not.

<waves to the lurkers>

[Nebularian]

One thing I have seen a lot of is a call for boycotting NCSoft totally.  Personally, I agree with this. With enough, we could basically shut down their US market. (Realistically, I don't see that happening...but it is a nice visual  )

But, seeing Victoria Victrix on here made me think about wider reaching effects this may have.  Like HER income!  I HOPE all of this does not threaten the Secret World Chronicles.  I mean, I don't know what connection to NCSoft these books have since it is basically set in a COH alternate universe (not asking, none of my business) but I hope that our actions to save COH do not harm Victoria financially.

[frostcoh]

Since we know they have lurkers, here, any private servers they do find will be linked to us, whether it's someone here doing it, or not.

<waves to the lurkers>

Honestly?  If so, I have a message for NcSoft.  Thank you for your response, no, really!  Now here's the deal, you're shutting this game down, which means you won't be making any money on it, however you have made money on it (and then some) on all the years you have invested into it.  Trying to recoup that back investment by asking for it in the sale price is stupid and immoral, you've already MADE MONEY ON THAT INVESTMENT. So rather than sitting on IP,that is obviously worthless to you (or you'd keep the game going), sell the game &the the studio to someone for a reasonable price.  Trying to sell it for the amount of money you have put into it is idiotic and wasteful, it's a digital entity,not a house.

Failure to do wo will make your brand so toxic it will effectively poison all who do business with you, this includes Nexon, H & K Strategies, and others.


One final thing NcSoft, try not to commit any forgeries or fraud this time; your stock holders won't toleratebe another multimillion dollar payout.

[P51mus]

Additionally, on another thread I read natter, perhaps semi-serious that one tactic would be to work to bankrupt NCSoft so that they'd be forced to liquidate ALL assets, including the CoH IP.  I don't have  the business acumen to know if this is even remotely feasible and am personally interpreting this as Venting/Wishful Thinking with more than a touch of Revenge Fantasy.

Short term, I think the only way to do this would be real life supervillainy.  Either the illegal kind or the Bain Capital kind.

Long term would be by making their brand toxic, not only in America but in Korea.  I'm pretty sure our continuing campaign will make them toxic here.  Korea I don't know.

[dwturducken]

Long term would be by making their brand toxic, not only in America but in Korea.  I'm pretty sure our continuing campaign will make them toxic here.  Korea I don't know.

Does anyone here have a friend or relative station in South Korea with the United Nations Command (Korea)?

[Nebularian]

Long term would be by making their brand toxic, not only in America but in Korea.  I'm pretty sure our continuing campaign will make them toxic here.  Korea I don't know.

  Put pressure on the S. Korean government: Get NCSoft to sell or we pull all aid and troops from S. Korea!  LOL (Don't I wish we had that kind of pull LOL  )

[chaparralshrub]

One thing I have seen a lot of is a call for boycotting NCSoft totally.  Personally, I agree with this. With enough, we could basically shut down their US market. (Realistically, I don't see that happening...but it is a nice visual  )

But, seeing Victoria Victrix on here made me think about wider reaching effects this may have.  Like HER income!  I HOPE all of this does not threaten the Secret World Chronicles.  I mean, I don't know what connection to NCSoft these books have since it is basically set in a COH alternate universe (not asking, none of my business) but I hope that our actions to save COH do not harm Victoria financially.

Interesting...

Something for Plan Y/Z to consider, possibly: would Ms. Lackey be willing to let Paragon make an MMO based on them? Wait, there already is an MMO based on them. Something to check out.

*Gets the books*

Put pressure on the S. Korean government: Get NCSoft to sell or we pull all aid and troops from S. Korea!  LOL (Don't I wish we had that kind of pull LOL  )

Yeah, I thought about this, even posted, somewhat facetiously, a while back on it, in fact. I wonder how many here have revenge fantasies of seeing the epilogue CoH (CoV, really) written in South Korean blood. That's what removing American troops from Korea would mean, after all.

EDIT: I would rather NCSoft just allow the IP to be sold, to somebody.

[Mr. Wentworth]

One thing I have seen a lot of is a call for boycotting NCSoft totally.  Personally, I agree with this. With enough, we could basically shut down their US market. (Realistically, I don't see that happening...but it is a nice visual  )

But, seeing Victoria Victrix on here made me think about wider reaching effects this may have.  Like HER income!  I HOPE all of this does not threaten the Secret World Chronicles.  I mean, I don't know what connection to NCSoft these books have since it is basically set in a COH alternate universe (not asking, none of my business) but I hope that our actions to save COH do not harm Victoria financially.

I am utterly confident that the fanbase and sales for our good friend and compatriot will see no harm. Anyone here become a Mercedes Lackey fan recently?