Author Topic: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty  (Read 9209 times)

Captain Electric

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NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« on: January 29, 2013, 10:42:09 AM »
So, I recently went back and bought all of the Ultima series of games on GOG.com. Not just to own Windows 7 compatible copies, but also to further support a franchise that's been with me since childhood and that I still enjoy as an adult in Ultima Online. I'll always be a fan of the franchise, willing to pony up cash for a new Ultima game or UO expansion, or in-game item.

But the reason for this involves more than just the franchise's longevity. The Ultima franchise's publisher, EA, has a LOT to do with my customer loyalty. Meanwhile, like many City of Heroes fans, I would NOT buy another City of Heroes franchise title from NCSoft. And this isn't just out of spite over COH's closure. It's about reward for investment.

Allow me to explain.

A lot of people speak of Ultima and Ultima Online in the past tense; but because of EA's friendlier (or at least less adversarial) stance toward fans, I know that UO will still be available to play 15 years from now and beyond, even if EA abandons the official shards. I first played Ultima III as a 12 year-old boy; and it's the knowledge that I'll always have access to newly created content within the Ultima universe--whether official or community-created--that's one of the most dorkily happy things for me as an adult.

I'm a fan for life because my investment as a fan is secure. Of course, much of the content of the Ultima universe helps. It helps that the virtues, heroic quests, and so forth, make for games and stories you'd want to impress upon your kids and their kids.

It hasn't always been like this. When EA shut down Origin Systems (Richard "Lord British" Garriott's studio and Ultima franchise creators), and also Earth and Beyond in 2004, it was the last in a long string of events that caused me and many others to boycott them; and we harassed EA for years through various channels, until a new CEO stepped up and admitted to many of his company's mistakes--such as acquiring competing studios in order shut them down and bank their brands, and leaving fans out in the cold as so much collateral damage in their race to the top. These strategies hurt EA in the long run. If they hadn't, then we never would have heard any CEO promising a shift in direction.

But EA didn't lose face in this admittance. Far from it. Because their promise to their fans proved true.

Ironically, it was EA's soft stance toward E&B and UO emulation communities that convinced fans to end their boycotts; along with EA's willingness to work with newly acquired Mythic studios (actually work with them) to breath new life into UO and keep it running. Which is what Mythic has been allowed to do ever since, as well as making a brand new Ultima game.

Ultima Online is one of those "that game's still around?" games now, but generations of gamers have grown up playing it and many still do. By now, the number of Ultima fans who play emulated servers may equal or outnumber those on the official shards. But while EA is far from perfect, they can have my money, and a great deal of respect, for the reasons above.

NCSoft could learn a thing or two. MMOs are no longer new and novel, and we've entered that era that answers the intent of the 90-day cancellation disclaimer on all MMO boxes since the very first one. Innocence is lost. Going forward, publishers are going to have to compromise with their fans, if they don't want to lose them.

EA is a perfect model in this regard.

For executives and developers at NCSoft, "job security" is one of your biggest concerns. But for your fans, it's "game universe security". Especially for those of us who have lived in, invested in, and lost a game universe or two. In a "risk versus reward" game design sense, your new titles will continue to become increasingly overshadowed by the reputation you're building: a reputation for leaving your fans out in the cold in your race to the top.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 10:52:40 AM by Captain Electric »

General Idiot

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 12:19:08 PM »
Quote
...leaving your fans out in the cold in your race to the bottom.

Fixed that for you. Because their actions regarding CoH, like Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa before it, are only driving away current and potential future customers, and ultimately that can only lead to them having none. And a company with no customers is a failed company. The only question is whether they realise that before they actually hit the bottom.

Captain Electric

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 12:33:46 PM »
In a perfect world, sure; but I don't know if that's as true as we'd like it to be. Immediately after being spurned and lied to by NCSoft, many City of Heroes fans turned around and bought NCSoft's newest shiny game. This is our world.

But, yes, NCSoft's profits have fallen; of course, whether that is realistically attributable to the publisher's disenfranchised former fans is being covered in a thread near you. But if we can't be certain exactly how dangerous it can be for a publisher to behave worse than EA did for even longer than EA did, we can at least be certain how successful a publisher can start to become after patching up its reputation with its fans.

This can take surprisingly little work.

If NCSoft one day made public and positive comments about the COH community's revival of their game through community servers (with no "But...", I should add), then NCSoft would have a loyal fan in me. For life. For the City of Heroes franchise or any other title they released that looked fun to me. My investment as a fan would be secure.

They could do better than that, sure. But they don't have to be perfect. Less adversarial is a start.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 12:41:55 PM by Captain Electric »

UruzSix

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 02:14:46 PM »
EA sure does know a thing or two about fan loyalty.

"Yeah, let's take a half-baked Its A Small World ride disguised as a state-of-the-art-for-2004 MMO and slap the Bioware and Star Wars tags on it. Who cares about content, the brand names alone will be a license to print money! And just wait 'til you hear my plan for how Mass Effect 3 comes in on schedule..."

Noyjitat

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 04:29:59 PM »
I must say I'm not much of a fan of EA either. They have butchered command and conquer since westwood was shutdown. C&C 3 had huge imbalances, red alert3 was super cartoony but had 'war babes' and 4 was missing the base building feature. A c&c mmo was also canceled with westwoods demise. EA might be good to some customers but they really dont listen to feedback anymore. But I would choose them over ncsoft.

Kaiser Tarantula

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 05:00:44 PM »
I'm kinda bitter at EA regarding their cannibalization of Westwood, followed by destroying Earth & Beyond (one of my first MMOs), and ruining Dark Ages of Camelot (another of my first MMOs).  Then came Battlefield Heroes and broken promises ("We'll have a cash shop, but nothing more than cosmetic stuff and quality of life enhancements!  No stat boosters!"  Now stat boosters and gamebreakers are all over their cash shop), followed by Origin (the Satanic, Draconian, EA-specific Steam-alike), Mass Effect 3 (whose initial endings differed by color, and whose multiplayer continues to steal my friends' lives and souls), and their ever-ongoing habit of buying out and devouring games and companies I loved.

They rank up there with NCsoft among companies I absolutely loathe.

To those of you who hold up their treatment of the Ultima Online and Earth & Beyond's fanmade-server projects as a shining example of how a game should treat a fanbase, ask yourself this.  Did they deliberately let go, allowing the fanbase to do as they please?  Or did they just not care?  There's an important distinction there - one says they care about you, the second says you're beneath their notice.

Twisted Toon

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2013, 07:46:27 PM »
Fixed that for you. Because their actions regarding CoH, like Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa before it, are only driving away current and potential future customers, and ultimately that can only lead to them having none. And a company with no customers is a failed company. The only question is whether they realise that before they actually hit the bottom.
My grandmother used to have a plaque on the wall of her living room that stated, "The hurrier I go, the behinder I get". Your quote reminded me of that. Thanks. :)
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FlyingCarcass

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2013, 08:11:03 PM »
Wasn't EA ranked as "the worst company in America" by a consumer survey a year or two ago?
Edit: http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-named-worst-company-in-america-by-consumerist-6370000

I wasn't happy about getting nickle n' dimed (well, a bit more than nickles and dimes) by microtransactions when I purchased a family member Tiger Woods PGA Tour 13 and discovered half the courses were locked behind microtransactions. Because it was a gift I purchased those courses, but were it for myself I'd never have done so. And then the game has the gall to advertise its additional microtransaction "pins" on the menu screen.

And EA does shut down servers for games:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-shutting-down-over-a-dozen-game-servers-6366856
http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-shutting-down-online-services-for-12-games-6401956

How 'bout that new Sim City game that's coming out, with the requirement that the player have a constant internet connection (even if they're playing single player) as a form of DRM with no value added for the consumer? What happens when the new Sim City is no longer new and is no longer turning a profit... think EA will keep the servers online? I'll stick with my old copy of Sim City 4, thanks.

LadyShin

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2013, 08:17:27 PM »
NCSoft could follow examples set by many other successful businesses - Their global website is clearly out of date, featuring press releases dated four (4) years ago. Not one item on their global website mentions any news from 2010, 2011, or 2012. One item I saw at the main page was an expansion of City of Heroes that dated back to 2007 - 'NCsoft Expands City of Heroes, Allowing Players to Turn Back Time in Issue 11'.

To me, this shows a company that's incapable of keeping its public image up to date.
"Frank! It's the love boat to Cuba! Shuffle board and pineapples filled with rum. Know what they do? They put little paper umbrellas sticking out the top so that when it rains, it don't thin out the liquor."

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2013, 08:55:51 PM »
I'm not really seeing this thread, right? Please tell me I'm hallucinating.

FatherXmas

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2013, 09:34:00 PM »
NCSoft could follow examples set by many other successful businesses - Their global website is clearly out of date, featuring press releases dated four (4) years ago. Not one item on their global website mentions any news from 2010, 2011, or 2012. One item I saw at the main page was an expansion of City of Heroes that dated back to 2007 - 'NCsoft Expands City of Heroes, Allowing Players to Turn Back Time in Issue 11'.

To me, this shows a company that's incapable of keeping its public image up to date.

That just shows how little interest they have for western investors, because there is no reason for a player to go to that site.  Now the Korean version of their corporate site has a constant stream of press releases detailing when new updates and game events/contests are coming, to show how they are keeping the games fresh.  News like how Lineage had over 220,000 consecutive players on recently.  It's really meant for the press and investors.
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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2013, 09:38:28 PM »
I'm not really seeing this thread, right? Please tell me I'm hallucinating.

I know what you are saying.  To me EA IS the Empire.  They pillaged Origin, Maxis, drive out the founders and creative souls of studios they buy, cheat their employees of bonuses, sequel to death any game they can and basically have a work culture of that's reminiscent of the Pharaohs of Egypt.
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ukaserex

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2013, 02:52:43 AM »
I don't like EA for one main reason. They stopped making Madden for PC. I absolutely loathe the idea of buying a game controller that has no other purpose that my computer can't do. It's silly. Still not sure why they have those other formats. Mind you, I've never played those other formats, so I certainly wouldn't have a clue why folks like them. I'm far too cheap/frugal to fork over that kind of loot just to play a game or three on. Now, if I can watch videos, surf the web, do my online banking, etc, then maybe I'd be in.

But, until they do, I guess my old Madden will have to suffice.
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Knightslayer

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2013, 08:26:12 AM »
I don't like EA for one main reason. They stopped making Madden for PC. I absolutely loathe the idea of buying a game controller that has no other purpose that my computer can't do. It's silly. Still not sure why they have those other formats. Mind you, I've never played those other formats, so I certainly wouldn't have a clue why folks like them. I'm far too cheap/frugal to fork over that kind of loot just to play a game or three on. Now, if I can watch videos, surf the web, do my online banking, etc, then maybe I'd be in.

But, until they do, I guess my old Madden will have to suffice.
With the way consoles are coming along, you'll probably be able to do all of those things on the nextGens that are on their way.

WildFire15

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2013, 09:12:08 AM »
I really wouldn't hold EA as a shining example of anything besides being utter bastards. Bullfrog, Westwood, Maxis and before long Bioware have all been stomped into whatever line they see fit.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2013, 09:22:05 AM »
With the way consoles are coming along, you'll probably be able to do all of those things on the nextGens that are on their way.

Somehow, no matter how hard they try, I just can't see keyboards and web surfing becoming a console thing. Sure they can have the feature, but will anyone use it? As someone who has tried hooking up a PC to a big screen TV a couple of times, it feels very awkward. It's fine for reading text in video games with fonts and sizes that have been designed with couch potatoing in mind. But trying to read a website? Just, no. My eyes feel like they're bugging out trying to read an article on a screen that is 15 feet away. It's very unnatural.

And keyboards? Imagine trying to play CoH on a console. You can't very well put a mouse on your lap, so you'd need a handheld controller to actually play the game. But then everytime you want to send a message, you'd have to drop the controller and switch to the keyboard. Way, WAY too much trouble.

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2013, 12:53:30 PM »
EA's reversal is definitely something our community should strive for. Use social media to be a thorn in NCsoft's side wherever possible reminding them and any fans looking at their page about not just CoH, but also the communities of Tabula Rasa, Dungeon Runners, Auto Assault, Exteel that are all still waiting for NCsoft to release their games.

That way if we ever do see some management change at NCsoft, they'll remember us and maybe use us like EA did to repair their public image.

LadyShin

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2013, 02:48:30 PM »
Regarding NCSoft's decision in not only shutting down the game, but closing Paragon studios, they've completely disinvested themselves in the western market, regardless of their use of 'Blade & Soul' to try to appeal to customers over here - which means they'll sit on their copyrights to City of Heroes till it expires - in which time the concept of City of Heroes will be buried in history, obsolete and forgotten.

Do I feel it's too late to rescue City of Heroes? Not at all.

But on the same token I don't feel it's likely. CoH doesn't seem to fit with the style of many current developers.

I doubt Cryptic will touch the game, they sold it off in the first place and invested in Champions Online.

Marvel? Of course not.

DC? Nope.

Aeria Games? GPotato? Ditto..Doesn't seem their style either.

 ???



« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 03:16:24 PM by LadyShin »
"Frank! It's the love boat to Cuba! Shuffle board and pineapples filled with rum. Know what they do? They put little paper umbrellas sticking out the top so that when it rains, it don't thin out the liquor."

General Idiot

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2013, 03:20:00 PM »
Quote
In a perfect world, sure; but I don't know if that's as true as we'd like it to be. Immediately after being spurned and lied to by NCSoft, many City of Heroes fans turned around and bought NCSoft's newest shiny game. This is our world.

Many, yes. But far from all, which is the point. No matter how big or small a loss it is, it's still a loss. The only thing the size of the loss does is control how fast they hit the bottom, not if they will. Unless they're actually pulling in new people with their new games, which as far as I've heard they're not doing so well at.

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Re: NCSoft Should Follow Example Set By EA Regarding Fan Loyalty
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2013, 05:09:52 PM »
I'm... with the majority opinion on this. While Ultima might be a bright spot in their history, EA has screwed their players, their studios and their employees far too many times in far too many ways for this to even make a scratch.