Author Topic: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??  (Read 23588 times)

WolfSoul

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2012, 10:25:27 PM »
Thank you, Lily

Just going to put them here in case other people want them, too.

Black Pebble- @hosunl

Dr. Aeon- @seanmcann14

Posi- @mmodesigner

Hitstreak- @hitstreak

Zwillinger- @andybelford

War Witch- @melissabianco

Black Scorpion has one that I can't remember, will post it later. Those are the ones I know of.

dwturducken

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2012, 10:31:57 PM »
...is back at EA. Good luck to him with his new job :)
Way to go, Zwill!  Any word on what team he's on? I'd like to support it, but most of what I know from them is sports-related.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Codewalker

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2012, 10:44:49 PM »
Way to go, Zwill!  Any word on what team he's on? I'd like to support it, but most of what I know from them is sports-related.

He said on twitter that it's an unannounced project and he can't tell us yet.

HEATSTROKE

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2012, 10:47:30 PM »
He said on twitter that it's an unannounced project and he can't tell us yet.

Good for him !!

Atlantea

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2012, 11:16:39 PM »
I don't hate Star Trek Online. Far from it. I PLAY it. Have played for some time. And them having a better story guy there is a good thing!

But... They already HAD some good story people there already. Champions has NOTHING.

Champions is going to go the way of CoH, and I don't think it will be very far in the future (And it's NOT because I hate the game, I have no particular beef with it, once the rumor they had nothing to do with CoH's demise was thoroughly debunked, which I was glad to hear.)

DC Universe Online and Marvel Super Heroes Online have something that CoH and Champions don't.

Movies.

Movies about *their* archetypal characters, and multi-million dollar advertising campaigns, and multi-million person audiences.

We just *can't* compete on that level, and it's getting the "Lesser" SHMMO's run over.

And then when you add to that, *No* advertising (CoH), *No* new content for long periods of time (CO), and no apparent support from the parent company (Both). What do we expect? GameFacePlant.

And we're getting it. It absolutely *amazes* me that NCSoftCore and PWE *aren't* capitalizing on the year of the biggest Super Hero movie of all time, both here *and* overseas (The Avengers.)

This is DEEPLY STUPID. They BOTH have *previously-established* superhero MMO's *WITH an established playerbase*, and they both *Have* a western market (or did, anyway), and neither did *anything* to capitalize on these facts.



I can't disagree with any of this.

One of the things I was doing after Black Friday was offering advice to people on how to adapt to Champions. Between DCUO and Champions, Champions is the one most like COH. I think I veered into actual boosterism of the game at one point.

Well I'm no longer actively recommending CO as a place to go for COH players. I've recently become disillusioned of any possibility that CO will ever live up to the potential it could have. Because Cryptic and PWE both seem to have a business philosophy of "develop the new shiny game" every couple of years and letting the older ones rot after a certain point.

The ONLY reason STO is resisting that trend even SLIGHTLY is because of the franchise behind it. If it were a generic space game? It would have next to NO development at all, just like Champions, and 99% of Cryptic's resources would be in Neverwinter Nights until it came out. Right now, I'd guess only about 75% of their resources are in NWN. 23% is in STO, and 2% is in CO just keeping the lights on. Yes, they'll have vehicles soon. But they also have grab bags and lock-boxes now too. Loot that drops that you have to pay real money to open, even if you're a subscriber.

DCUO is run by SOE - who has possibly the best track record of supporting older games in the industry (Everquest) at least when they are their own games. (Star Wars Galaxies was an anomaly since Lucasarts pulled the license. They'd probably still be running SWG right now even on limited servers if not for that.)

DCUO despite being clunky when it comes to RP options and limited in customization options to the point where it's difficult to impossible to make a "port" of a character from CO or COH to DCUO, is nevertheless getting the love. Did you know they now have player/SG bases in the works? So now - one of the biggest complaints of the RP crowd in DCUO - no RP areas is now somewhat addressed. The game has actually improved a lot since launch.

And because it's SOE, and because of the point above about being part of a major franchise - it would not surprise me in the slightest if it outlasted CO and is still going in 8-9 years (assuming DC/Warner doesn't pull the license like LA did).

Oh - and on the subject of Lockboxes. DCUO has them as well - but has done them RIGHT. If you are freemium or Premium, you have to buy a key to open one. But if you're a subscriber? You just open it for free. THAT's how you do a lockbox!

So yeah - sad to say. But of the two existing Superhero MMOs, if you want to play the one that's going to be around longer? Go DCUO. That's the way things currently look.

Atlantea

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2012, 11:18:42 PM »
And good for Zwill and the others!

My only qualm is that Zwill is working for EA. EA in no way shape or form DESERVES as good a guy as Zwill.

(yeah I'm still bitter over Mass Effect and the death of Bioware.)

And I'm sad, because whatever he's working on, I won't be able to support, because it's EA. And EA, like NCSoft, gets none of my money.

Terlin

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2012, 11:45:11 PM »
Regarding Plan Z and a "movie," we're PLANNING a prologue web comic, and have a myth-arc for it planned out. There are also noises from others regarding other web comic topics.

I'm sure we'd love, if we get the capability, to do a true movie to kick off the game, as we get to that stage, but we will have to wait and see on that. It would almost certainly require us to actually find and contract with a movie studio who'd use their own budget to make the movie, which we'd cross-promote, if it were to be a GOOD movie and really do what we want without being a hackneyed "movie-made-to-sell-the-game."

Any thoughts on live-action or animated?

I recently came across the promotional movie for Halo-4, and it seemed to be close in quality and content for a full theater release. It is posted on YouTube in 20-minute segments. Final one should be this Friday. As I understand it, they wanted to reach non-gamers with this film. Very impressive. Looks like a fairly significant budget though.

Codewalker

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2012, 12:31:21 AM »
Well, EA is only slightly less evil than NCSoft, but I'm still quite happy that Andy has a paying job once more.

srmalloy

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2012, 01:08:12 AM »
It's important because it means NCSoft did care enough to have expectations. When a company has expectations and those expectations are so far thrown off that they are "surprised," it has effects all over their chain of command. Maybe not grand ones, but it is an irritant, a distraction, a problem.

More to the point, it's personally embarrassing to NCSoft management as long as we can keep it public, particularly in Korea. Korean culture has strong underpinnings of 'face' and 'harmony', and prizes the ability to read the mood of the people you interact with in order to avoid breaking either. For example, in a business deal, you would not ask "Will we be able to sign the contract by Friday?" because that puts the other person in the position of possibly having to say 'No', breaking the harmony; instead, you would ask 'What is the earliest date that we can expect to sign the contract?", allowing for an answer that isn't an outright refusal.

NSoft's original "realignment of our vision for the future" statement was just such a 'face-saving' declaration; it allowed them to avoid saying "We're not interested in continuing to operate City of Heroes" without making a bald statement about it. Similarly, their "exhausted all opportunities" statement was another dance around the point, avoiding the flat "We're not going to sell the IP".

The thing that makes it embarrassing for the NCSoft management is that, within Korean culture, these would have been perfectly-acceptable declarations that would be accepted at face value. However, making these statements to a Western audience, and our reaction to them, shows that NCSoft completely misread its audience for these statements -- demonstrating a massive lack of nunchi, the ability to 'read' someone else's mood. And it's this spectacular flop that embarrasses them -- someone in a higher position is supposed to have a better grasp of nunchi, and our publicity backlash erodes the credibility of the NCSoft management.

Kheprera

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2012, 01:08:54 AM »
I'm thrilled for him.  He has a young family to support, so getting on anywhere is a good thing. If I had to make a choice of getting food for my kids or declining a position with NCSoft just because I don't like their business practices, I'd have to accept the job.

Of course, that would not detract me from continuing to look for other employmemt.  I'd happily use evil for the greater good.

I just hope he doesn't forget us!   :gonk:

Jordan_Lee

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2012, 03:26:02 AM »
More to the point, it's personally embarrassing to NCSoft management as long as we can keep it public, particularly in Korea. Korean culture has strong underpinnings of 'face' and 'harmony', and prizes the ability to read the mood of the people you interact with in order to avoid breaking either. For example, in a business deal, you would not ask "Will we be able to sign the contract by Friday?" because that puts the other person in the position of possibly having to say 'No', breaking the harmony; instead, you would ask 'What is the earliest date that we can expect to sign the contract?", allowing for an answer that isn't an outright refusal.

NSoft's original "realignment of our vision for the future" statement was just such a 'face-saving' declaration; it allowed them to avoid saying "We're not interested in continuing to operate City of Heroes" without making a bald statement about it. Similarly, their "exhausted all opportunities" statement was another dance around the point, avoiding the flat "We're not going to sell the IP".

The thing that makes it embarrassing for the NCSoft management is that, within Korean culture, these would have been perfectly-acceptable declarations that would be accepted at face value. However, making these statements to a Western audience, and our reaction to them, shows that NCSoft completely misread its audience for these statements -- demonstrating a massive lack of nunchi, the ability to 'read' someone else's mood. And it's this spectacular flop that embarrasses them -- someone in a higher position is supposed to have a better grasp of nunchi, and our publicity backlash erodes the credibility of the NCSoft management.

Thank you for that insight in Korean culture, I wasn't aware of any of that. Doesn't change the fact that I'm still throwing a temper tantrum over here (I WANT MY HEROES AND MY GAME AND EVERYTHING), but it make some sense of what they said. I knew fairly quickly that part of this was a culture gap, though I'm not sure if it is from NC Soft in Korea or with me being from the Midwest. I still can't get over how they will cancel CoH while it is still making money, and go into promoting that awful anime softcore they call a video game instead.

chaparralshrub

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2012, 03:36:09 AM »
We need to continue the push on NCSoft. The more we can damage their kibun without damaging our image in the process, the better our chances of getting NCSoft to cough up the IP at some point - even if it's part of their going-out-of-business sale.

Ampithere

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2012, 03:46:20 AM »
I am a symbol. I can be whatever the City of Heroes needs me to be. Something more. I am the NCSoft basher.
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NecrotechMaster

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #73 on: November 02, 2012, 06:29:08 AM »
when CO first came out and i looked at it, i could tell from a first glance that it was a crappy knockoff version of CoH (and i still think that)

i also could never bring myself to play CO because the graphics make my eyes hurt (even with the more annoying effects turned off)

i dont think i could play STO because its too PVP oriented (i LOVED CoH for the fact that it was NOT focused towards PVP at all)

i am glad that most of the devs have found some work, although we havent heard from the upper levels (posi, warwitch, ect)

im still hoping that ncsoft will fold under the pressure and release the IP so that the game can be continued

Colette

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #74 on: November 02, 2012, 08:00:18 AM »
"...within Korean culture, these would have been perfectly-acceptable declarations that would be accepted at face value. However, making these statements to a Western audience, and our reaction to them, shows that NCSoft completely misread its audience...."

So in plain language (and at the risk of offending the PC Police yet again,) you're saying that Koreans are accustomed to being lied to by rich douchebags. Yeah, that's pretty much what I got from "Gangnam Style" too. This has been quite an education. At least now I can cogently explain why I like the Japanese so much more.

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #75 on: November 02, 2012, 12:24:25 PM »
Less all out lies and more like double talk.  Think Politician more used car salesman.

What I still can't figure out is why.  Anyone with a basic web browser can look at the last big hit movies that came out of Hollywood and see they been Superhero movies.  There been a number of Hero and HEROES like T.V. shows.  Not to mention big boom in Superhero toys. 

AKA Superhero business is BIG and City of Heroes has a 8 year lead on the competition.  True we have an older engine but it's still good and the Dev been pushing the mechanics to the max and supercharging with all the new powers and features.  So no matter the culture gap it's stupid.  You have a Hot market item (superhero) two competitors who's games are ... alright... at best.  A modest market campaign would have double or tripled the returns put into it.  Instead they pull the plug.  Double so if you count that NCsoft stopped Paragon Studios from working on CoX2.
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

Segev

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #76 on: November 02, 2012, 12:49:18 PM »
"...within Korean culture, these would have been perfectly-acceptable declarations that would be accepted at face value. However, making these statements to a Western audience, and our reaction to them, shows that NCSoft completely misread its audience...."

So in plain language (and at the risk of offending the PC Police yet again,) you're saying that Koreans are accustomed to being lied to by rich douchebags. Yeah, that's pretty much what I got from "Gangnam Style" too. This has been quite an education. At least now I can cogently explain why I like the Japanese so much more.
To you and I, yes, it comes off as "rich jerks lying." It's one reason I can't stand role-playing in asian-culture-based games; the way they think is alien enough to offend my own sensibilities. (Not "I hate Asians for thinking that way," but "I hate trying to think that way and have an innate annoyance when forced to deal with it.") Still, it is very useful to understand it.

To Korean cultural mindset, it's better to tell a face-saving white lie. It's better for all involved. This is because that face-saving white lie allows all involved to maintain the illusion of comity, of kibun. The "realignment" and "exhausted all options" lines would be expected to be understood for their true meaning, but give a way for the "losing" side (in this case, us) to preserve their own public harmony by accepting that all that could be done was tried and moving on, while preserving the harmony of the side with the power to make the decision by allowing them to not have to state flatly that they don't want to cooperate.

I'm sure there are proper kibun-preserving methods to protest. It is a kibun-restoring act, when pushed too far, to suddenly and loudly explode in what Americans would call a violent tantrum. To us, that's the tantrum-thrower losing all dignity, but to Korean culture, that's restoring harmony when it has been lost. No, I don't quite grasp the logic. I think being forced into such a display is one of the greatest ways to shame those who've put you in that position, however, as it means they failed so hard to read your subtle cues that your kibun was being repeatedly disrupted that you had no means of preserving it further.

In a sense, that's what we're doing, from their mindset. They are watching a frighteningly polite but determined...and increasingly angry (but still, mostly, polite)...sector of their target market (at least, the market they claim to target) throw an ongoing and ever-amplifying tantrum. And it's becoming more dedicated and more organized. This is why remaining organized and turning the volume up with each passing deadline in their schedule is so important. They keep expecting it to die down, to go away, and for harmony to be restored. Sure, at this point, they've taken a mild hit to their Face because they failed to anticipate this and each effort they've made to smooth it over has only made the backlash worse. This displays a lack of management-worthy nunchi, which, as it becomes more public knowledge, increasingly shames and calls into question the worthiness of those making the decisions.

That each effort they make only provokes a more organized and angrier response demonstrates they cannot manage people, that they cannot understand those they purport to serve, and that they lack the culturally-expected ability to maintain kibun. That it remains polite helps us here to avoid being dismissed, which means we can get greater publicity. That it is organized and directed is confusing to the Korean cultural mindset, because "organized" and "tantrum" don't really go together. This destabilizes NCSoft's management still more, as their attempts to mollify with simple kibun-preserving pap have failed and they know culturally that we're attempting to restore our kibun, but we're doing it in a way that is continually amplifying their failure of nunchi.

From an a-cultural perspective, we are hoping we're also doing some harm, financially, but revealing to their stockholders just how poorly they're managing their company and their interests overseas, and just how hazardous their refocusing on Asia is due to shrinking their company when it should be growing. In this way, we hit them where it hurts even those whose appreciation for kibun is merely for show.

Manga

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #77 on: November 02, 2012, 02:16:58 PM »
The whole subject of kibun and Korean face-saving, and trying to convince NCSoft tobe more cooperative by trying to respect those things, it's kind of a moot point really when you look at the rest of the story.

As far as I've seen, those who are rich and powerful are like gods in Korea.  They *must* be respected, and they are always right.  If they make any decision, it's up to everyone else to accept it graciously and keep their mouths shut about it.  If they speak out about it, it embarrasses both themselves and everyone around them.

The problem with that is, for us, the only way to respect the Korean way is to quietly accept the City of Heroes shutdown and even thank them for it!  Trying to save CoH is going to make them angry, and it's going to be disrespectful, and there's not much we can do about it.  It's not really about the Korean way, it's about ours.  And as far as I'm concerned, they can roll their eyes at our behavior and call us spoiled rude children all they like, as long as they sell off or restore it.

We've all encountered players who behave the same way NCSoft is behaving.  The ones that insult, bully, and humiliate other players, and then claim that they have a right to do that, and if you don't like it you should cancel your subscription and leave.  And you know what we call those players.  :)

But more important is we have to learn to treat NCSoft the same way - not delicately, but like trying to convince one of those disruptive players to play something else for a while and leave you alone.  It's not easy, and sometimes it's not possible, but it beats quietly leaving.

Codewalker

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #78 on: November 02, 2012, 02:58:13 PM »
I think Kibun is a red herring. At the end of the day, NCSoft is a business, and cultural issues aside, it acts like a business. The behavior that many are attributing to Kibun or "saving face" also comes from one other thing. In the west we call it pride. The two concepts aren't as alien to each other as it would seem at first glance.

NCSoft is a very prideful company, and the unilateral "This is how we're going to do it" attitude is part of that. It's unlikely that we can change their decision at this point, but we can definitely make them wish that they had, and warn others of the destructive pattern of behavior so that they don't get burned by it as well.

And if the pressure gets high enough, there is still a small chance that they could decide that selling off the IP is the best way to make it go away.

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Re: Are we going to hear from Brian Clayton. Positron, War Witch soon ??
« Reply #79 on: November 02, 2012, 03:11:19 PM »
Oh - and on the subject of Lockboxes. DCUO has them as well - but has done them RIGHT. If you are freemium or Premium, you have to buy a key to open one. But if you're a subscriber? You just open it for free. THAT's how you do a lockbox!
I agree. That is the way the lock-boxes should work.

when CO first came out and i looked at it, i could tell from a first glance that it was a crappy knockoff version of CoH (and i still think that)

i also could never bring myself to play CO because the graphics make my eyes hurt (even with the more annoying effects turned off)

i dont think i could play STO because its too PVP oriented (i LOVED CoH for the fact that it was NOT focused towards PVP at all)

I have been a lifetime subscriber of STO since about the time it came out. I haven't once stepped foot into anything PvP related. Even my Klingon character hasn't participated in any PvP content.

Ignore the PvP stuff, and STO isn't too bad. Granted, the Klingon side is more geared towards PvP. But, its not mandatory that you participate. Even as a Klingon.

We've all encountered players who behave the same way NCSoft is behaving.  The ones that insult, bully, and humiliate other players, and then claim that they have a right to do that, and if you don't like it you should cancel your subscription and leave.  And you know what we call those players.  :)
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