Author Topic: Negative Article on Massively  (Read 43240 times)

JaguarX

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2013, 03:58:52 PM »
looks like it's inspired us to start thinking and trying again.
When its said and done that is what matters.

Ironwolf

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2013, 03:59:10 PM »
It is unreasonable to think that NCSoft might just open up a conversation with a past partner?

It is unreasonable that this partner might say - I am not interested in buying the game but I know someone who might?

I think it is unreasonable not to try and lead NCSoft to doing what we would like.

dwturducken

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2013, 04:01:20 PM »
On another thread, there was talk of throwing wallets. I'm not really present enough over there to say for sure, but it's certainly worth pointing out the will and enthusiasm we have as a reply to Trail Turtle's response from Jack.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

JaguarX

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2013, 04:02:24 PM »
It is unreasonable to think that NCSoft might just open up a conversation with a past partner?

It is unreasonable that this partner might say - I am not interested in buying the game but I know someone who might?

I think it is unreasonable not to try and lead NCSoft to doing what we would like.

But are we doing that by insulting them at ever turn and treating and or viewing them as an evil villain that needs to be defeated?

Turjan

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2013, 04:04:01 PM »
Looks to me like Eliot Lefebvre's written something of a self-cathartic piece there - the fact that he brings up how he dealt with his own father's passing makes it pretty clear he's chosen his own path of how to handle the closure of CoH.

I can understand why he's gone off on a bit of a rant : because he's reached his own balancing point he's expecting others to do the same, and with that expectation in mind, he seems almost to take personal offence to the fact that some folk still have the hope he left behind.

Jealousy perhaps? Or sympathy? Possibly both. Losing CoH wasn't easy for any of us, and because we're all individuals, we all must deal with it in our own way. Eliot's found his way, and I think he's simply trying to pass on what he learned along that way. That's laudable, but it overlooks the fact that some of us did not, and will not accept that the loss of CoH was final.

He's right to say that he had to accept his father's passing because 'the alternative was dumb', but a video game is not a person. In a very real way, CoH still exists completely unchanged on each and every one of our hard drives. The game is not currently active, sure, but it certainly is NOT dead in the way people die. As a digital entity, CoH is merely currently dormant, so it's perfectly understandable for many people to outright refuse to accept that CoH is 'history'.

Eliot's good people, and he knows he's stuck his neck on a block here to an extent, because he's fully expecting rants and flames back at him. So while he and we may differ in how we regard the future of CoH, we should never forget that the only reason he stuck his neck out at all is because he loved CoH just as much as we do.

jeangray

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2013, 04:34:27 PM »
I personally feel bad for him.  I can only imagine how crazy the e-mails he received must have been and the volume must have been staggering to make him feel he needed to write what he did.  It's not like COH is currently active so it's not really something I'd think would be worth his time writing about...he is supposed to write about active games I'd assume that helps keep his job best. 

I'm guessing the target audience of his piece were those who wrote in that he's worried have unrealistic expectation and he's hoping to get them back to reality.  Hopefully he doesn't get a ton of unnecessary nasty e-mails for sharing his feelings on this matter.  He seems like a good guy, has been plenty supportive of COH over the years, and doesn't really seem to deserve a ton of grief over this article.  So if you are one who must e-mail/comment defensively regarding this story, please consider the good he's done too before sending your response to him and/or posting in the comments section of his article. 

JaguarX

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2013, 04:36:10 PM »
I personally feel bad for him.  I can only imagine how crazy the e-mails he received must have been and the volume must have been staggering to make him feel he needed to write what he did.  It's not like COH is currently active so it's not really something I'd think would be worth his time writing about...he is supposed to write about active games I'd assume that helps keep his job best. 

I'm guessing the target audience of his piece were those who wrote in that he's worried have unrealistic expectation and he's hoping to get them back to reality.  Hopefully he doesn't get a ton of unnecessary nasty e-mails for sharing his feelings on this matter.  He seems like a good guy, has been plenty supportive of COH over the years, and doesn't really seem to deserve a ton of grief over this article.  So if you are one who must e-mail/comment defensively regarding this story, please consider the good he's done too before sending your response to him and/or posting in the comments section of his article.

Yeah

Triplash

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2013, 04:49:48 PM »
(good points)

(good points)

Yeah that makes sense. When you're forced to move on from something, especially when there are negative feelings involved, sometimes just seeing someone who can still be positive about it can trigger a harsh response. It's not even deliberate, it's simple instinct. "If he didn't give up, does that mean I was wrong to?" Moving on when there's no choice is one thing, but if something comes along later to make it seem like there was a choice (realistic or not) then it can make you feel like you abandoned it. And nobody wants to feel like they quit on something they loved. Worst part is, that's an unwarranted response; moving on is just how some people deal with things, it certainly doesn't make it wrong. But emotions have never made much sense. That's part of what makes us human.

I'd hazard a guess that his article was tinted by such emotions. I also agree that it was most likely a direct response to all the comments coming from people who are still strongly driven by their own emotions over the whole thing.

Basically I agree with jeangray... his articles over the years were probably some of the biggest advertising City got. He flew the same skies we did, guys. Let's cut the man some slack.

downix

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2013, 05:26:31 PM »
I've had to come to accept that CoH is not coming back. It is hard, and frankly, I keep wishing I were wrong.

Want to know why TPP hasn't done a kickstarter yet? Because deep down we hoped we wouldn't need to, that something would come and some miracle would happen. We have come to accept that will not happen. So we must move onto the next step, making sure that we can play again, in our own game, which no corporate master, no bureaucrat, can take away from us.

JaguarX

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2013, 05:36:10 PM »
I've had to come to accept that CoH is not coming back. It is hard, and frankly, I keep wishing I were wrong.

Want to know why TPP hasn't done a kickstarter yet? Because deep down we hoped we wouldn't need to, that something would come and some miracle would happen. We have come to accept that will not happen. So we must move onto the next step, making sure that we can play again, in our own game, which no corporate master, no bureaucrat, can take away from us.
People can say I went bat mess but I agree with this about the part of making our own game. I think that is our best hope and best chance in the long run
 Even if they sold coh to any random company with a check or turn the lights on there is nothing to stop them from putting us in the exact same situation now. Instead if ncsoft (possible if they sold) we will griping about another company. If they turn lights back on there is no stopping them from doing a repeat even if its because not as many players came back as they thought would return.

With our own game we control and unlike many of the suits running things we know what it is like to lose a game and not look at it as mere numbers on a graph. Not to mention show that you need a fancy corporation and millions to make an idea. Just an idea the will and know how and it can be done. It might inspire a movement fat beyond ncsoft and coh closing. After a while the corporations will have no choice but take notice.
Hell might even have ncsoft knocking at the door trying to buy one of the games. We can tell them that we have exhausted all options in finding a Suitable buyer.

JanessaVR

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #70 on: April 11, 2013, 05:36:16 PM »
I've had to come to accept that CoH is not coming back. It is hard, and frankly, I keep wishing I were wrong.
Well, there are those of us here that don't accept that - and we'll keep fighting.

MindBlender

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2013, 06:08:59 PM »
If I move on it will be with Plan Z.  People that know what I HAD, so they know what I WANT!  I am using Plan Z to generically point at both projects.  I can waste time on mine sweeper, but to be honest I miss the community the most.  Being on the forums here reminds me that mature and dare I say professional  ;) played my favorite game and you folks are what I miss the most.
All my computer skill was used up on my Commodore 64 decades ago...

JaguarX

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #72 on: April 11, 2013, 06:13:21 PM »
If I move on it will be with Plan Z.  People that know what I HAD, so they know what I WANT!  I am using Plan Z to generically point at both projects.  I can waste time on mine sweeper, but to be honest I miss the community the most.  Being on the forums here reminds me that mature and dare I say professional  ;) played my favorite game and you folks are what I miss the most.

Well mostly mature. :p.

(Just lightly ribbing ya.)

Quinch

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #73 on: April 11, 2013, 06:52:11 PM »
But are we doing that by insulting them at ever turn and treating and or viewing them as an evil villain that needs to be defeated?

Keep in mind that attitude towards them is based almost solely on their actions - they're viewed as villains because what they've done is typical of a villain. If that changes - if they do the right thing and so much as acknowledge that other people exist - I will be willing, eager, even, to change my attitude to reflect that.

JaguarX

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #74 on: April 11, 2013, 07:00:18 PM »
Keep in mind that attitude towards them is based almost solely on their actions - they're viewed as villains because what they've done is typical of a villain. If that changes - if they do the right thing and so much as acknowledge that other people exist - I will be willing, eager, even, to change my attitude to reflect that.

*nod* *nod*

Yep but going back to what Wolf said about trying to lead ncsoft into doing what we would like them to do. If that is the view we hold towards them it probably means that is how people will approach them which would be counterproductive in trying to convince them. Its like your worse enemy is dogging at every corner insulting you everywhere but at the same time saying they are trying to get you to sell your house. Would you happily run to negotiate with them because they say they will be your friend if you sold the house to them they will be your friend but until then they will hate you and ensure they let everyone know? Me personally id tell them to stay off my porch and even if I was selling they wouldn't be on the top of my phone list.

But overall sounds like what they did was typical corporation. They didn't kill anyone or level a city, actual brick/ mortar city. They discontinued a product. Like corporations sometime do.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 07:09:08 PM by JaguarX »

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #75 on: April 11, 2013, 07:05:28 PM »
Keep in mind that attitude towards them is based almost solely on their actions - they're viewed as villains because what they've done is typical of a villain. If that changes - if they do the right thing and so much as acknowledge that other people exist - I will be willing, eager, even, to change my attitude to reflect that.

This is what happens when you don't have transparency.

Take a look at what happened with Disney and the LA shutdown. There was pandemonium for about... 3 days? And by then, we knew why Disney was doing it, we learned about their overall videogame situation, we learned what was being done with the games that were in production, and the impact it would have on future Star Wars games.

We may not like it. But we got an honest answer. Maybe we technically got one from NCsoft, but they waited SO LONG to even toss a single breadcrumb (and a vague one, at that), that it made the whole thing seem much less believable.

Megajoule

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #76 on: April 11, 2013, 07:30:59 PM »
I happen to agree with Father Xmas, Segev, and Mr. Lefebvre.  (Like the first, I was subscribed, if not always playing, since shortly before Issue 2; and like the last, the whole thing has acquired additional depth/context/resonance due to losing a parent just a little over a year ago.  Yeah, 2012 was a fun year for me.)
Does that mean I should stop posting here, because I'm not sufficiently committed to the cause?

I've loaded up SEGS and logged in dozens of times, even though I have the graphics bug.
If any of these projects bears fruit, I'll be right there too.
And I'm not going to tell anyone to stop hoping (and have taken issue with some in Massively comments who have said that, and worse things).
But I personally moved from "will be disappointed if it doesn't" to "will be pleasantly surprised if it does" a while back.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 07:36:49 PM by Megajoule »

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #77 on: April 11, 2013, 09:45:45 PM »
I think it would be a miracle if NCSoft would ever sell COH or reopen the game itself.

That being said, I would be happy to be proven wrong.  ;D

My main hope is that Phoenix or Heroes and Villains-- or someone else-- comes up with a game that shares more with COH than the other games I've been able to play since it shut down.

And I do think that by keeping the pressure on NCSoft, we may make future companies think twice about how-- or when-- to shut down a  game.

Menrva Channel

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #78 on: April 11, 2013, 11:27:59 PM »
No.  His first article about the game was Oct 14th, 2009 about the Halloween Event that year.  His MMR column started Jan 27, 2010.  (Edit: Massively started it's coverage Oct 7, 2007.  Massively's first article ever on anything, in their archive, is Sept 27th, 2007)

And comments like this is exactly the crap he is talking about.  Your first assumption that he wasn't a "true believer", a Johnny come lately, a lookie-loo reporter, someone who wasn't a player simply because he stuck a pin in your hope balloon.  You are like someone in stage 4 grasping at faith healers, untested herbal treatments and an all fruit diet.

If you haven't read it yet, read the Gamastutra article about the closure of the game and the attempted buyout.  It shows how hopeless the situation is resurrecting the game, as it was, truly is.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, apparently I confused him with someone else. There was a blogger who covered the shut down and did a really nice job of it. I thought that blogger said that he had only joined near the end. I might have just mixed up some facts. (Seriously, I don't remember the name of the blogger, I just remember the coverage and finding it really nice.)  I have no problem with people who don't want to hope and who want to move on. I also sent him a respectful email and said that he had a really well written article. Even if I don't agree with his perspective, he voiced his opinion well. I also /thanked him/ because even if this isn't a view I have, it still brings the game back up. I also read the Gamastutra article. It's great he's decided to accept things as they are and in his conclusion I felt that he wasn't all "rawr get over it" and acknowledged that many people loved the game. He also said that it should be remembered for what it was. Clearly that is someone who respects the community at large. (As an after thought, I've read some of his comments to other posters and he has been very respectful in replying and giving a little more about his feelings about the game. I particularly like his reply to @jonno28nz. [Like, seriously--that comment has endeared him to me on so many levels]. I think ultimately he shares the realistic view many of us have.)

I feel I am taking this pretty realistically. I go to work every day and move on with my life as usual. I've even tried other MMOs. I understand the chances of getting the game back are slim, but I see nothing wrong in hoping anyway. Please be more considerate in your posts and do not make assumptions about me or my views. (I did take that post a little personally even if it was not intended. I assume that it was meant to be an outburst at those who are more passionate in their approach.) I asked a question because I wasn't sure of my facts. (And felt that it was a logical conclusion that if he hadn't been playing long it would be easier to let go of. ) I wasn't attacking him. I just wanted to clarify that.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 01:09:57 AM by Menrva Channel »

dwturducken

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #79 on: April 11, 2013, 11:57:24 PM »
Well, there are those of us here that don't accept that - and we'll keep fighting.

Keep in mind that "acceptance" is not the same as "quitting." :)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."