Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7345251 times)

Cobra Man

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #120 on: March 17, 2014, 05:14:20 PM »
I hate to be a wet blanket here but I don't see this working.

While liberating the IP from NCSoft would be very gratifying, it doesn't really help us, other than freeing it up for new ventures.

NCSoft has proven apathetic and unresponsive to attempts to somehow lease or otherwise acquire a legitimate means of rehosting the the MMO.
They didn't care to turn it over to Paragon Studios, people they knew could handle the game.  Why would they turn it over to a bunch of random people they don't know?
ESPECIALLY if doing so (leasing/renting/etc) still leaves them open to legal liabilities?

This is what's been nagging away at me.

Everything coming back from the negotiations was that NCsoft were not prepared to sell.

To suddenly be told that this wasn't the case and that they were really wanting to let go of the IP doesn't sit well.

I really do hope I'm wrong but there is a definite clash of information going on here.


Codewalker

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #121 on: March 17, 2014, 05:50:54 PM »
Being willing to sell the IP for use in other projects and being willing to let someone (anyone) re-open the existing game are two completely different things.

If you didn't want the latter to happen, holding on to the engine rights and/or code base would be a good way to prevent it.

If you were a high-level executive with a grudge, waiting until a critical moment in negotiations and then refusing to budge on a seemingly small sticking point in order to torpedo the deal would also be a good way to do it without being obvious about it.

/tinfoil off

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #122 on: March 17, 2014, 05:58:46 PM »
We will be finding out shortly.

In case you didn't notice Chris Chung the former head of NC Interactive was one of the people who arranged the first attempt. It failed not just due to NCSoft - there was more to it. There was bad feelings with NCSoft that bled into the deal and caused it to fail.

I have also been told of a second attempt that NCSoft WAS willing to sell the IP for as I quote "peanuts" however they wanted considerably more for the game engine. People are working on this now and they have the names of the people at NCSoft and even Nexon.

So many people have been told one side of the story and it is always the normal thing lately to villify the big corporation. NCSoft is bringing back one previously closed game NOW - http://www.mmoculture.com/2014/02/metal-black-alternative-ncsoft-revives-game-for-2014-beta-phase/

I get it I really do, but it isn't me moving this now. Some folks have been made aware of the stuff that happened and are moving forward. I don't know how much they will share but anything I hear I will be happy to pass on. Things are being worked on - I can assure you of that.

Codewalker

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #123 on: March 17, 2014, 06:04:44 PM »
I'm hopeful you'll get more information that you can share. If nothing else it would be interesting to know.

One thing you should keep firmly in mind is that no one at NC Interactive or any of the US-based offices has or had any power to determine the fate of the franchise. That decision rests solely in the hands of the parent company in Korea. Nexon may be able to apply some pressure, but they do not have a controlling interest.

Given the rapid dismantling of NC Interactive as well as the bad blood between the two entities, their support may even be a hindrance. I doubt you'll find anyone who will agree to have their opinions repeated, but ask some former employees of the US offices just how they felt they were treated and valued by Corporate.

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #124 on: March 17, 2014, 06:09:26 PM »
I know there may be some hurdles but also with those folks gone so is much of the reason for bad blood.

Now we just have a clear deck and over a year with the game gone. We will see soon.

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #125 on: March 17, 2014, 06:16:53 PM »
There is also this article as to whether NCSoft was willing to sell or not:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/189896/behind_the_scenes_of_the_paragon_.php

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #126 on: March 17, 2014, 06:53:53 PM »
I'm hopeful you'll get more information that you can share. If nothing else it would be interesting to know.

One thing you should keep firmly in mind is that no one at NC Interactive or any of the US-based offices has or had any power to determine the fate of the franchise. That decision rests solely in the hands of the parent company in Korea. Nexon may be able to apply some pressure, but they do not have a controlling interest.

Given the rapid dismantling of NC Interactive as well as the bad blood between the two entities, their support may even be a hindrance. I doubt you'll find anyone who will agree to have their opinions repeated, but ask some former employees of the US offices just how they felt they were treated and valued by Corporate.

yes, Nexon has about 15% of the company but I have some information that a Nexon executive may be moving up in the company very soon. I guess we will soon know.

Seethe

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #127 on: March 17, 2014, 07:41:06 PM »

I have also been told of a second attempt that NCSoft WAS willing to sell the IP for as I quote "peanuts" however they wanted considerably more for the game engine.



The game engine and costume creator are really the big elements that made CoH special.  The IP fluff like villains and broad story really isn't that difficult to create something similar.  The ability to customize your character and the ridiculous fun of the engine is the driver.

It also takes two to tango.  Whoever buys CoH (including the former heads of Paragon Studios) has to have the capital behind it- not just for the purchase, but for transitioning on for however more years that they think the game can still be viable.  I'm not sure that Brian Clayton and his group ever had the financing to make NCSoft a legitimate offer and begin transitioning the studio into a stand-alone company.

I'm not sure if it's feasible.  But, I certainly hope I'm wrong!

Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #128 on: March 17, 2014, 07:43:29 PM »
There is also this article as to whether NCSoft was willing to sell or not:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/189896/behind_the_scenes_of_the_paragon_.php

Hmm.  Miller wasn't involved in direct talks but was 'briefed.'  And he's not entirely sure what the 'sticking' points were. 

But the names of the people involved in the deal that came 'close' or merely a 'signature' away must know(!) what those sticking points were.

And ownership of the engine comes across in Ironwolf's posts.  Also, from NC's Press Release on the closure that it had to do with legacy in terms of how it's customers might be treated. 

If you get a team that won't buy unless the engine is bought outright...and NC who hold the cards and need a compelling reason to sell you can see how things can come so close and yet so far.

Add in the 'alleged'(?) bad blood (I guess the manner in which Paragon felt they'd been treated by 'Corporate...') and you have large deals decided on small margins.

Is that 'bad blood' still there?  i.e. people have moved on.
Was the ownership versus lease a sticking point for those wishing to buy...and for NC Soft 'willing' to sell..?

People like Brian Clayton must know.  And the rest of the people around the table doing negotiations.  Talks are going well...then all of a sudden they're not according to Miller (who, again, wasn't in those meetings.)

Time moves on.  Things change.  It's only code.  Anything is possible if we have the will and desire to make it so.

That can be spiritual successors.  (At least 3 at current count in development...)
That can be people trying again and again to make a deal.
Compromises.
The IP and Code are now older and less valuable.
NC Soft HAVE or are bringing back an old game.  Retro has value.

The community isn't laying down.  Nor should they.

I felt the only thing 'wrong' with Coh was a new engine.  i.e. take all the maps and geometry and art assets and update them or port them to a new engine and give them a lick of paint.  Nothing wrong with the art assets, maps etc.  Animations etc. 

I'd take the game as is right now.  It's like victorian lace or silk.  It just plays so well.  Or did.  Grace.

I remember the original Unreal Tournament.  Perfect.  With the update to a new graphical engine something was lost in translation.  It was more lead footed.  That 'something' was lost.  Even Cryptic couldn't do Coh '2' right with Champions.  Which is still in Beta. :P  A clumsy clog footed and empty shiny experience.

IN summation.  Ironwolf is brave and creative.  He's lost nothing and we've lost nothing through his valour in pursuing this.  Good luck to him.

Get the players from the last deal.  eg. Brian and Co.  Talk about what went wrong.  Talk to NC Soft.  Open a line of communication.  Understand their concerns.

I'd take a leased Coh game right now.  But I'd like to know WHAT was the actual sticking point.  Until we know those rather than some vague 'the deal fell through...' (i.e. without specifics...) it will remain that way.

Hot potatoes.  You have to catch them.  ...as well as throw them.

Azrael.

Quote
It also takes two to tango.  Whoever buys CoH (including the former heads of Paragon Studios) has to have the capital behind it- not just for the purchase, but for transitioning on for however more years that they think the game can still be viable.  I'm not sure that Brian Clayton and his group ever had the financing to make NCSoft a legitimate offer and begin transitioning the studio into a stand-alone company.

That seems to come across in the interviews I've read.  Miller talks as if he's powerless.  And that usually means you don't have the weight or clout of money behind you.  But again, how much to buy the franchise seems clouded in mystery...as to the real reason the deal fell through for both the buyers and the sellers.


...and there's also the emulation efforts.  But I'd de-emphasised that aspect in this post for obvious reasons.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 07:48:56 PM by Azrael »

Blitzwing

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #129 on: March 17, 2014, 10:00:37 PM »
Hmm... I just had a thought along the lines of the PR train.

Maybe when we get an estimated time on the pitch to NCSoft. We could hold off on some of the bad PR people have been putting out (post on their facebook, ect..) for say a week or so. So they can see just how united the CoH community still is?

Kinda like a small power play. :P

I like this idea...; though I still don't like NCSoft in general(Auto Assault had amazing potential for example, but I actually agreed with most that said it needed 4-6 more months to work out bugs...it released far too soon), if we can get in touch with someone, as Ironwolf has suggested may be happening soon, and coordinate a -temporary- cease-fire on their FB page...who knows...crazier things have happened....  :)

WildFire15

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #130 on: March 17, 2014, 10:51:09 PM »
The worst that can happen is they say no, so give it a shot and see what happens is what I say.

r00tb0ySlim

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #131 on: March 17, 2014, 11:42:34 PM »
You know if NCSoft would actually consider this idea/proposal the resulting positive PR would be huge for them....I hope they care about positive PR :roll:

Codewalker

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #132 on: March 18, 2014, 12:24:47 AM »
Oh hey, I'm all for trying. I'm just not holding my breath that anyone with real power in NCSoft will take it seriously or have any interest whatsoever. We'll need to present a solid case with real, tangible, benefits that is compelling enough for it to be worth their while.

Good PR is a start. Probably not enough on its own, but maybe we can think of other things to add to that.

dwturducken

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #133 on: March 18, 2014, 01:15:37 AM »
Just speaking objectively, the ability of this community to commit nearly three quarters of a million dollars for a promise, not even a finished product, shows resolve, if nothing else. We keep showing, time and again, that we're serious and we're not going anywhere. This new effort by Ironwolf demonstrates that we're willing to keep trying new things.

Sure, it's not necessarily tangible, but history, even just the last five years, is full of small but persistent efforts effecting massive changes.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 09:20:10 PM by dwturducken »
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Drauger9

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #134 on: March 18, 2014, 06:44:08 AM »
Quote
Good PR is a start. Probably not enough on its own, but maybe we can think of other things to add to that

I think that's where this community has an Ace up it's sleeve. Almost anything we think up we can accomplish. Good PR, we just got to put the word out, cease fire. LOL!

I was thinking, maybe when the pitch does happen, maybe try to do it all professional. You know, like we're pitching a product to them. From what I've seen there are people that are completely amazing at photoshop and video editing in the community.

Money? As has been proven, we can put together some money, maybe not a lot in NCSofts eyes but still.

I really believe anything we can come up with, there's a person with in the community that can do it. Now the hard part is if they have the time and resources to do it?

Something else I was also thinking about, servers... now I know nothing at all about running a MMORPG on a server. So I could be completely wrong but from my understanding. If things are promising, a college for video game programers is going to be approached about keeping the game running?

If so, why not do the same for the servers? Maybe approach a college that has students that need experience in server administration?

All of this is just throwing out ideas, it's completely up to Ironwolf it's his idea. I can tell he's got a idea of where he wants to go with this and I'm excited to see how it goes. :)

Fleur_uk

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #135 on: March 18, 2014, 02:24:03 PM »
Hi
Sorry jumping in late also, and like what I'm reading.  I'm a habitual lurker that pops on to have a nosey every few months, and seriously missing my game. 
Ironwolf thank you :) I'm curious though.  are you looking at raising funds via kickstarter or some similar way, Like the phoenix project did?
  Sorry if this has already been tossed around during another thread.  There are a lot of us that would be happy to back/support working to bringing coh game back.  I'm not techie at all, and sorry if I've stepped on any toes, or brought up a subject already discussed.  Just a lass that misses her Super Heroine ever so bad. xx

Occasionally I dream about the game then wake up .....gutted.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 02:43:35 PM by Fleur_uk »

NightWolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #136 on: March 18, 2014, 02:36:04 PM »
Some of our folks are proceeding with something and I do have a name that was passed along.

Let's see what happens!

It is likely at that stage where it may be quiet for a while as people make offers and such and have discussions.

Right now we'll just have to wait and see how this will turn out. Keep your fingers crossed everyone.

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #137 on: March 18, 2014, 03:25:45 PM »
Hi
Sorry jumping in late also, and like what I'm reading.  I'm a habitual lurker that pops on to have a nosey every few months, and seriously missing my game. 
Ironwolf thank you :) I'm curious though.  are you looking at raising funds via kickstarter or some similar way, Like the phoenix project did?
  Sorry if this has already been tossed around during another thread.  There are a lot of us that would be happy to back/support working to bringing coh game back.  I'm not techie at all, and sorry if I've stepped on any toes, or brought up a subject already discussed.  Just a lass that misses her Super Heroine ever so bad. xx

Occasionally I dream about the game then wake up .....gutted.

At this point just sit tight - as more information has come out some folks are taking action and making contact. I don't know if they will post here or somewhere else. If those talks fail we will at least know more about where we stand and what might be possible.

Lucretia MacEvil

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #138 on: March 18, 2014, 05:11:17 PM »
After so long, waiting is probably the hardest thing for the community to do; now that we've heard hints of a possible deal, we want to go all-out to help and make our voices heard.

Still, if any game is worth waiting for, it's our City.

I will continue monitoring this thread, hoping for updates soon.

LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #139 on: March 18, 2014, 06:10:05 PM »
I'm keeping an eye on it to.  I miss city of heroes so much because it's gameplay was unique compared to other games out there, and the classes actually played differently enough to be a different experience yet at the same time no one class was required in a team, it was one of the few games that was actually well balanced.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.