Author Topic: NCSoft Stockwatch  (Read 725043 times)

Blondeshell

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 808
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2000 on: May 11, 2013, 12:12:07 PM »
This is the 2,000th reply in this thread.

OT: Thanks for keeping updated stats on this, FX. Charts are always convenient.

Kemphler

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2001 on: May 11, 2013, 05:40:27 PM »
The main thing the really hits me is that from the looks of that chart, CoH really was the bottom earner of their games for the longest time. I suppose the main reason for that is because it never really took off in the East like it did here in the West. I still think they would have been better of selling it, however, due to the simple fact that they could have made some more cash off of it before shutting it down, where they now make a grand total of $0. Either way, as much as people will hate to hear it, NCSoft 'might' have made a sound business decision with closing CoH, as it was such a small share of the revenue. They took out a game that had costs and a low return on said costs, streamlining what they had. Sure, I still hate them for it because of how they handled the whole situation, but the basic premise of what they did has logic behind it. Chances are they didn't see any coming increase in CoH's playerbase, especially subscribing playerbase, and as a result figured it wouldn't be worth it anymore. As I mentioned already though, they could have cut their losses better by selling the game to another business, rather than just lopping it's head off.
"I intend to live forever, or die trying." - Groucho Marx

VyoletRose

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2002 on: May 11, 2013, 05:57:59 PM »
The main thing the really hits me is that from the looks of that chart, CoH really was the bottom earner of their games for the longest time. ... as much as people will hate to hear it, NCSoft 'might' have made a sound business decision with closing CoH, as it was such a small share of the revenue. They took out a game that had costs and a low return on said costs, streamlining what they had. ... Chances are they didn't see any coming increase in CoH's playerbase, especially subscribing playerbase, and as a result figured it wouldn't be worth it anymore.

With little to no advertising budget, it's no wonder that CoH had a hard time bringing in new players. Most gamers didn't know the game existed. What kind of revenues could have been brought it with just a commercial here or there, like WoW or Halo? What if they advertised in comic book stores? Magazines? We know those at Paragon Studios wanted to advertise...

*heavy sigh*
Save City of Heroes | http://www.ourcityofheroes.com/

FatherXmas

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • You think the holidays are bad for you ...
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2003 on: May 11, 2013, 06:31:42 PM »
With little to no advertising budget, it's no wonder that CoH had a hard time bringing in new players. Most gamers didn't know the game existed. What kind of revenues could have been brought it with just a commercial here or there, like WoW or Halo? What if they advertised in comic book stores? Magazines? We know those at Paragon Studios wanted to advertise...

*heavy sigh*

Yes but do NCSOFT advertise any of their games well here, other than around when it's released and the first and maybe the second holiday season?  I remember back when there were PC gaming magazines that they did advertise those first few years.  Then magazines went away.  Then the section in stores that handled PC games got smaller and smaller until only a few games with paid product placement (all things Blizzard, all things Sims) and whatever new games that just came out.  I always content, and it looks as if Blizzard and EA agrees, that being on the shelf is the best advertising you can "buy".  Before it was all about an end cap, now with the limited space, it's just keeping a few copies in stock and on display.
Tempus unum hominem manet

Twitter - AtomicSamuraiRobot@NukeSamuraiBot

Mister Bison

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 686
  • *psychotic grin*
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2004 on: May 11, 2013, 07:29:24 PM »
Yes but do NCSOFT advertise any of their games well here, other than around when it's released and the first and maybe the second holiday season?  I remember back when there were PC gaming magazines that they did advertise those first few years.  Then magazines went away.  Then the section in stores that handled PC games got smaller and smaller until only a few games with paid product placement (all things Blizzard, all things Sims) and whatever new games that just came out.  I always content, and it looks as if Blizzard and EA agrees, that being on the shelf is the best advertising you can "buy".  Before it was all about an end cap, now with the limited space, it's just keeping a few copies in stock and on display.
if I wander into racist territory, censor me, but I think this may have something with Korean market not needing as much advertising as Occidental. why not, since they are more into PvP than us, that just may be another difference.

Thing is, it turned bad for City of Heroes, since it was nearly a west-exclusive game.
Yeeessss....

FatherXmas

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • You think the holidays are bad for you ...
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2005 on: May 11, 2013, 09:11:22 PM »
if I wander into racist territory, censor me, but I think this may have something with Korean market not needing as much advertising as Occidental. why not, since they are more into PvP than us, that just may be another difference.

Thing is, it turned bad for City of Heroes, since it was nearly a west-exclusive game.

I don't think it's cultural per say, I just think advertising is handled very differently.  Looking at the Korean NCSOFT site there's always mention of some shindig or another featuring a K-pop star with a tie in to one of their games.  Then there's the whole PC cafe experience.  It's quite possible that a lot of the advertising is done there.  I also know that there are tie-ins offered at cafes.  Buy time this weekend, get exclusive in-game widget.  Between this and the press generated from attending various game conventions around the world is their idea of what advertising should be.

Over at the Korean game news site ThisIsGame, they use a series of rotating flash ads to pimp all of there games.  The one banner ad is for a Korea Vs China e-sport event.  They also have a few of the small graphic link ads like we see pimping web comics here but for MMOs there.
Tempus unum hominem manet

Twitter - AtomicSamuraiRobot@NukeSamuraiBot

Peregrine Falcon

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2006 on: May 12, 2013, 09:11:40 PM »
Not sure if this article by Massively has any new info, but since I haven't seen a link to it posted...

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/05/12/ncsoft-sales-down-from-last-quarter-up-from-last-year/

It has a nice colorful graph, but it looks like it's pretty much the same info that FatherXmas posted up thread.
Paragon City refugee - "We're heroes, it's what we do."

FatherXmas

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • You think the holidays are bad for you ...
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2007 on: May 13, 2013, 03:50:25 AM »
Yea, that's page 5 from the 1Q13 report.

They chopped off the two lines at the top of that page in the picture but mentioned one, the reason why NA/EU sales number were off from the previous.  The other line was about how Lineage's "robust and healthy subscriber base" plus in-game item promotions kept it's sales up (grew a smidgen) while all their other games (except Aion) had sales worse than the previous quarter.

What really helped in terms of quarterly profits was the 24% reduction in expenses.  Of that reduction, 28% of it was from reduced marketing costs (does this surprise any of us), 22% were from reduced labor costs and 43% from the "other" category.  The 4Q spike in "other", which wasn't there 1Q was hiring new players for the baseball team.  Go Dinos!  (Does anyone else think it's an oxymoron for a high tech company sponsored sports team to be named after an extinct species?  Nexon's team is names Heroes)
Tempus unum hominem manet

Twitter - AtomicSamuraiRobot@NukeSamuraiBot

beveri8469

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 139
  • still inside atlas park hospital waiting to leave
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2008 on: May 13, 2013, 05:36:20 AM »
it still bugs me to see ncsoft succeeding, although as stated most of those numbers are coming from just korean gamers not much outside that

im just glad im not feeding the beast that killed us by playing any of their games


i agree with this myself.
@Eternal Twilight
Now in Paragon

Safehouse

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 362
  • Sometimes it's harder to let go than to hold on.
    • My Deviantart
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2009 on: May 13, 2013, 11:19:51 AM »
With little to no advertising budget, it's no wonder that CoH had a hard time bringing in new players. Most gamers didn't know the game existed. What kind of revenues could have been brought it with just a commercial here or there, like WoW or Halo? What if they advertised in comic book stores? Magazines? We know those at Paragon Studios wanted to advertise...

*heavy sigh*

That's a REALLY good point. Three years ago, I didn't even know CoH existed. It took my girlfriend at the time telling me about it for me to try it out.
Name: Safehouse     Origin: Magic
Powers: Energy Blast/Electricity Manipulation/Flame Mastery/Teleportation
Security Level: 50+
Status: Inactive
Last Seen: Wandering the empty streets of the evacuated Paragon City.

Lightslinger

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 277
  • @Lightslinger, Virtue
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2010 on: May 13, 2013, 01:28:55 PM »
That's a REALLY good point. Three years ago, I didn't even know CoH existed. It took my girlfriend at the time telling me about it for me to try it out.

This is -the- standard for most MMOs however. I see very, very few MMO ads on TV or at the movies. NCsoft does some heavy advertising for a game when it launches then they pretty much advertise all their MMOs the same as they did CoH.

TV and movie ads are INCREDIBLY expensive, its why you see pretty much only WoW doing any sort of sustained adverstising campaign.

NecrotechMaster

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 388
  • is there a badge for that?
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2011 on: May 13, 2013, 03:32:11 PM »
the point being made is that there was basically $0 for any advertising for coh, not even for like a once a year tv ad or even just a page in a magazine like gameinformer (or similar)

almost every person who played coh either heard about it through word of mouth or they just happened to see a box in a store and their curiosity spiked and they wanted to give it a try (i prolly figure only about 25% or less of the playerbase knew about the game before it was in initial beta)

FatherXmas

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • You think the holidays are bad for you ...
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2012 on: May 13, 2013, 04:40:27 PM »
I remember seeing a write up in a CGW about games in development that included a mention of CoH.  Caught my eye only because I was playing Freedom Force and the idea of an MMO super hero game sounded interesting.
Tempus unum hominem manet

Twitter - AtomicSamuraiRobot@NukeSamuraiBot

Little David

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 149
    • The Ad Ultimum Network
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2013 on: May 13, 2013, 04:44:11 PM »
In my case, I got into CoH by word of mouth. I'd known about the game for a few years prior thanks to friends who played it, but I didn't get into it until 2008, when I played a free trial with some other acquaintances.

CoH didn't hold their attention for more than a month at best, but it sure held mine.

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2014 on: May 13, 2013, 05:35:19 PM »
In my case, I got into CoH by word of mouth. I'd known about the game for a few years prior thanks to friends who played it, but I didn't get into it until 2008, when I played a free trial with some other acquaintances.

CoH didn't hold their attention for more than a month at best, but it sure held mine.

It was pure chance. Then I told other people about it. Most found it to not be their cup of tea. But most gave it a try. Most of them never
 even heard about COX prior to me mentioning it to them. And to this day, even serious gamers that can name idependent studios in a basement working on a new game that never see the light of day, even heard of many of NCSoft other offerings never heard of this game. The word just never got out there much. In fact, before I even figured NCSoft was behind COX, a couple mentioned NCSoft to me and their other games but when I mentioned COX they looked as clueless as a brain dead person at a NASA meeting.

One, way back when I first started playing and the discussion of game publishers, one mentioned "oh yeah NCsoft have this super hero game out. Heard it's pretty good." And I piped up, "Yeah, it's called City of Heroes." He tried it out for a few months, then left. Last I heard he's still playing WoW. He said it was too dead. Of course I asked what does he means, at the time, I was on regular hours, so didnt see what he meant at the time. He said that while there is plenty of people on at peak times, the crowd is still small compared to WoW and he could only imagine that teaming is out of the question (his words) off peak times. I work during the day, have to cook dinner, take care of the wife and kids and many days I wont be able to get on until about 9pm (Central) and weekends are all but out of the question Saturday family time, and Sunday is church and dinner with mother law. I play MMOs to team. If I wanted to solo, I'd play console. In WoW and other games with larger population teaming is not worry because better chance in shorter time for finding people that have similar lifestyle." And after a while when I went to Europe I knew exactly what he meant. There wasnt many people on and the pool of people to team with dwindled outside peak hours. Luckily I dont mind soloing much.  One stayed, and played until it went dark. But most people never even heard of COX but mention WoW, and I done this, even to non-gamers that never even touched a computer game or in some cases, a console game, heard of WoW.

Advertising works. Hell even a youtube video which dont cost a single penny, and WoW and many other MMOs have plenty of, works too. In a nutshell it's was absolute FUBAR with marketing as far as COX goes. It was a wonder they attracted as many players as they did by mostly word of mouth and an abstract ad way back in 2004 in some unknown magazine that are usually aimed at hardcore gamers which from what I hear among many hardcore gamers is not their style of game in COX. Which is like advertising a G8 jet plane in the coupon section of the food stamp pamplet. Sure maybe a few G6 buyers might heard of and might somehow come across a food stamp pamplet, but wrong target  audience.

And how is WoW so well known? Continued reminder here and there that it exist. In the age of where games are played and forgotten, a reminder is sometimes needed especially after the many changes over the years. I5 COH barely even feels like i23 COX. Same game, same concept but so many changes so many additions that anyone who seen i5 and prior ad for COH and played and left due to not liking it, especially the early SK system, might have found themselves having a ball if they knew about the changes. And out of curiosity after contacting a few major TV stations for advertising times and price for slots, it owuld have been few beans they wont even miss. It's gets pricey during major sport events like playoffs, Superbowl, championships, and tier one programs, but plenty of affordable spots between the hours of 7am and 9pm and I'm talking about national syndicate stuff. Even a well off single person of upper middle class could afford it even though they probablywill miss that money. And here, a billion dollar corporation, it would have been pennies even based on the income and profits of COX alone. They just dropped the ball on ad. You see, they ad like crazy with their other games. There is even a Lineage and Guild Wars spot here in the Game Stops here way out here in El Paso. Never once have there been a City of Heroes spot even in it's prime. So out of curiosity I asked the game stop people about what it take to get one of those spots. They said here, they just ask the head manager and the people send out the package (the spots apparently come with games, the carboard display and sign in the window) and he said only one that regularly does it id Blizzard even though it dont cost much and so when Blizzard call they have nothign to say but yeah, we plenty fo room for it and Blizzard sends. The other game companies just dont on a regular basis which explained the Lineage and Guild Wars but not Lineage 2 and Guild Wars 2 even though they have all four game cards at the minimum. One manager even complained that he "feels they lose lot of computer game sales because people think they only carry WoW and Starcraft and thus when they sell less of others they have to order less of the others. But the companies dont send anything to advertise their games. You're the first person in a while that even mentioned COX. We had it, but no one knew it existed, and it didnt sell. But I love that game and many people have no idea what they are missing. NCsoft is stupid for not advertising this game"

So we arent the only ones that noticed lack of advertisment for COX. And those quotes are from people only in El Paso, a small crap hole of at own in the middle no where desert. Imagine in Los Angelese, Atlanta, New York, Dallas, Miami, St. Louis, Boston, Houston, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago and etc.? WoW is known because they made it be known. It wasnt just magically popped up in everyone heads when it was made. It wasnt WoW went live and everyone got a mental psychic message that WoW is live. And that is for any game or any product. Was it a risk that even with advertisment, it wouldnt bring in the money? Possible but even the first few years, considered the peak of COX, when it was raking in the area of 10 million or more in profits a quarter and 150,000-195,000 players, that they was thinkign WoW was sinking and not bringing in enough and that it might not be around by the year end but that is clouded by the success that followed, patience. They took risk, they won. NCSoft played it safe and got so-so results even though they SAID they wanted more but didnt make a single move to make it happen. Paragon Studios wanted it and seen it, but NCsoft dragged feet till the end and guess who paid the price for that folly? Paragon Studios and the players. That is what sucks and quite frankly irks the crap out of me about the entire situation shutdown more than anything.

Lightslinger

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 277
  • @Lightslinger, Virtue
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2015 on: May 13, 2013, 06:04:06 PM »
I agree entirely that NCsoft should have advertised CoH moreso, I was merely pointing out that most people refer to movie and TV commercials when they talk about advertising and that is not the standard for MMO advertising. It's not like every other MMO had sustained commercials while NCsoft ignored CoH. Commercials are extremely expensive so most games/MMOs go other routes. NCsoft missed that "other routes" part a lot though.

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2016 on: May 13, 2013, 06:08:32 PM »

...most games/MMOs go other routes. NCsoft missed that "other routes" part a lot though.

Yup.

Floride

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 863
  • Badgehunter Extraordinaire
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2017 on: May 14, 2013, 02:00:30 AM »
I didn't mind that NCSoft didn't advertise CoX. It just meant those who played had been invited to play by those already playing. Kinda like an exclusive club for just "the cool kids". Kept out a lot of the riff-raff imo.

But as far as CoX making such a small profit, that's entirely NC's fault. CoX had something that WoW and all it's clones don't have - a CITY. A city full of BILLBOARDS.
How do you make a game that takes place in an expansive city full of billboards and NOT charge for advertising space on them? Nike, Mountain Dew, Chevrolet - this game could've made sick amounts of cash for NC.
History shows again and again
How nature points out the folly of men

Lightslinger

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 277
  • @Lightslinger, Virtue
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2018 on: May 14, 2013, 02:43:41 AM »
I didn't mind that NCSoft didn't advertise CoX. It just meant those who played had been invited to play by those already playing. Kinda like an exclusive club for just "the cool kids". Kept out a lot of the riff-raff imo.

But as far as CoX making such a small profit, that's entirely NC's fault. CoX had something that WoW and all it's clones don't have - a CITY. A city full of BILLBOARDS.
How do you make a game that takes place in an expansive city full of billboards and NOT charge for advertising space on them? Nike, Mountain Dew, Chevrolet - this game could've made sick amounts of cash for NC.

They tried, it was a huge flop. Though I still remember the remarkably forgettable Jeter Clutch tennis shoe.

Little David

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 149
    • The Ad Ultimum Network
Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #2019 on: May 14, 2013, 03:25:44 AM »
That sucks. I'd wondered why they hadn't used the billboards for actual advertisements, too ... the first MMO I saw using in-game billboards to advertise stuff was Anarchy Online, oddly enough. Which kind of felt incongruous, because Anarchy Online is set like 20,000 years in the future on a distant planet, and you're seeing ads for stuff in our time and place.

In City of Heroes, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. I would have liked it, even. It'd help give that feeling that you're looking at an alternate contemporary Earth, so there'd still be a level of familiarity.