NCSoft Stockwatch

[NecrotechMaster]

i dont think selling the IP is off the table yet, but i think it will be highly unlikely unless ncsoft is seriously failing as a company and goes bankrupt to which they will have to liquidate their assets

[JaguarX]

At this point I firmly believe that NCSoft will go down clutching that IP to their collective chest, last thing they ever do is going to be hold onto that IP with a death-grip and never, ever let go. The waves will wash over their head and they will die proud, CoX IP in hand. "NEVER WILL YOU TOUCH OUR SACRED PRECIOUS GAME!!" Now, since they hold it so very dear one is forced to wonder: then why kill the game in the first place? But no, logic does not apply here. No point in wondering.

Sometimes humans and logic dont meet up perfectly at the crossroads. And sometimes it just depends on the view, angle,  time of day, and which end of the gun a person find themselves on, and the eye of the beholder. What is very logical to one is insanity to another.

But in the end I think NCSoft isnt going anywhere. They are not even anywhere near floundering in debt to the point where they even have to worry about liquidating assets anytime soon unless someone does something illogical and gain a bunch of debt over the next couple of years.

[Ironwolf]

I disagree on the viewpoint that NCSoft won't sell CoH.

They need a reason to do so and so far honestly we don't know what the team with Brian Clayton was offering. We know Valve may have offered $3 million.

I still think that an offer in the $10-12 million range is likely to spring it from their stickie hands. However if you look at this as a business your return on investment is a tough sell on that unless you have other uses for the IP. Disney could sneeze and raise that much cash and they have a built in advertising machine. So does Valve with Steam - but other smaller investors buying it outright and then having to spend cash advertising it would be a tough sale.

We love they game but businesses aren't charities and they love profits - rightfully so or they go bust. Don't panic - it has been 55 days only so far with 2 holidays in between.

[Illusionss]

I'm not panicking, I just dont think they will sell. Out of spite, if nothing else. There is no way anyone is giving them eighty million dollars for an eight-year-old game, and they know it. Its just spitefulness at this point.

I am honestly amazed they are not asking 100 milion.

[Codewalker]

I'm not panicking, I just dont think they will sell. Out of spite, if nothing else. There is no way anyone is giving them eighty million dollars for an eight-year-old game, and they know it. Its just spitefulness at this point.

I am honestly amazed they are not asking 100 milion.

I have no evidence to back it up, but my gut feeling is that the $80m was the "no strings attached" counteroffer rather than the original price with all the crazy liability that they wanted the buyers to assume.

My theory is they are paranoid about some legal issues in the wake of the Gariott ruling and were looking for someone to take that risk off their hands -- or pay an equivalent amount of cash as somebody was afraid they might stand to lose.

It's still a ridiculous number, just a theory as to where it might have come from.

[JaguarX]

I have no evidence to back it up, but my gut feeling is that the $80m was the "no strings attached" counteroffer rather than the original price with all the crazy liability that they wanted the buyers to assume.

My theory is they are paranoid about some legal issues in the wake of the Gariott ruling and were looking for someone to take that risk off their hands -- or pay an equivalent amount of cash as somebody was afraid they might stand to lose.

It's still a ridiculous number, just a theory as to where it might have come from.

 Is there evidence of the 80 million offer/price floating around?

Think I recalled some link to a small press release that Valve offered $3 million but nothing substantial bout the 80 million price besides hearsay that went viral inside this community.

[Segev]

I have it on extremely good authority that Carbine is operating under "two month warnings" now, which is NO way to run a company nor to get your creative people to do anything other than start looking for jobs elsewhere.

Not trying to be argumentative here, as I can see how this could be...problematic, but what would be the right way to handle a studio of creative types who are not delivering on time? You needed it out this month, and they're still saying "it'll be done when it's done" or some variant. What is the proper way to motivate them to finish without driving them to quit?

[JaguarX]

Not trying to be argumentative here, as I can see how this could be...problematic, but what would be the right way to handle a studio of creative types who are not delivering on time? You needed it out this month, and they're still saying "it'll be done when it's done" or some variant. What is the proper way to motivate them to finish without driving them to quit?

Cattle prod. :p

[Segev]

I think that might get them to quit FASTER. And possibly bring charges. >_>

[FatherXmas]

It also depends what they are waiting on.  Art assets, animation assets, zone layout, missions, custom bosses, crafting/market infrastructure/UI.  Then there is always feature creep from above or within.  "Hey product X has this feature, how hard would it be at this point to put it in?"

Biggest problem with software development vs hardware development is the "soft" part.  Everyone knows it's just code, no molds, no inventory management, no part or sub-assembly suppliers, no change in the production line.  It's easy peasy right?

So is the underlying game client and server code complete and now they are just waiting on game content to be complete?  That's always the problem with MMOs, takes months and months to create content and then some dedicated fans blow though it in two weeks or less and demand more.

[Illusionss]

Not trying to be argumentative here, as I can see how this could be...problematic, but what would be the right way to handle a studio of creative types who are not delivering on time? You needed it out this month, and they're still saying "it'll be done when it's done" or some variant. What is the proper way to motivate them to finish without driving them to quit?

I doubt anyone is telling them "It'll be done when its done," I'm thinking its more along the lines of what they are wanting done CANNOT be done within the specified time frame. If something is done but keeps needing bug-fixes or whatever, that might slow things down a bit. Some things are out of human control.

Then again, my own mother was all about the "I want x, and I dont care if something happens I BETTER get x by 12 noon today OR ELSE!!!" and she was completely serious about the punishment, as well as immune to stuff like certain things being out of the control of a ten year old, or logic in general. So I could understand having an employer tell people that, but as an adult I am not about to tolerate it, as I was forced to as a child. I cant speak for Carbine. 

[Ironwolf]

The $80 million was to take everything including some undisclosed potential liabilities.

It was basically like an Ebay buy now button. If you wanted to keep the game running without shutting down and get rid of NCSoft - $80 million did it. After the game shutdown - the liabilities were removed and they could sell it straight up for the IP.

We have absolutely no public knowledge of any offers for the IP alone since the closure.

[JaguarX]

The $80 million was to take everything including some undisclosed potential liabilities.

It was basically like an Ebay buy now button. If you wanted to keep the game running without shutting down and get rid of NCSoft - $80 million did it. After the game shutdown - the liabilities were removed and they could sell it straight up for the IP.

We have absolutely no public knowledge of any offers for the IP alone since the closure.

Yeah I heard what this 80 million price tag was supposed to entail.

But sounds like there is really no known source of this information is what I'm getting from your statement? It's all just all floating rumor?

[Ironwolf]

This was at the time the best those in negotiation could release. Since then we have heard absolutely nothing from any source about any offers - at least posted publicly and not on Twitter.

[JaguarX]

Since then we have heard absolutely nothing from any source about any offers - at least posted publicly and not on Twitter.

yeah I figured that.

[Pinnacle Blue]

The idea of going after NCsoft because they closed ARE GAME!!! is silly and would be thrown out of court in extremely short order. Want to really scare NCsoft with a lawsuit? Dig up some dirt on them, get your hands on a memo or email that looks bad in the sunlight and threaten the lawsuit then. You could send NCsoft a certified letter saying "We're filing a lawsuit because you closed COH" and they'd welcome it. I'm positive a company like NCsoft probably does 100 illegal things a day, find an example of that to throw at them and now we're talking.

We don't need to be a community of sad refugees anymore, we need to be activists dedicated to making NCsoft hurt until they sell CoH.

Oh, I'm sorry.  I didn't realize we had an actual lawyer present, y'all.  Well, if you can't tell the difference between "our" and "are" then I guess you must be the sharpest legal mind ever to grace these here forums, I reckon.

Sarcasm aside, in some cases in the U.S. you can file a suit against a company as a shareholder if your stock's value decreases significantly and you can prove the company didn't do some very obvious things to prevent that from happening.  NCSoft's stock is tanking after they closed a profitable game and pissed away a LOT of future customers and goodwill.  If they were based in the U.S., that would easily be grounds for a shareholder lawsuit.

Like I said, I am investigating.  This may not turn out to be a viable path but until I hear from an actual,  honest-to-goodness, degreed, certified, practicing lawyer, I'm not just going to stop looking into it on any one person's say so.  Ahem.

[Tanklet]

... unless ncsoft is seriously failing as a company and goes bankrupt to which they will have to liquidate their assets

This would be ideal.

[JaguarX]

Oh, I'm sorry.  I didn't realize we had an actual lawyer present, y'all.  Well, if you can't tell the difference between "our" and "are" then I guess you must be the sharpest legal mind ever to grace these here forums, I reckon.

Sarcasm aside, in some cases in the U.S. you can file a suit against a company as a shareholder if your stock's value decreases significantly and you can prove the company didn't do some very obvious things to prevent that from happening.  NCSoft's stock is tanking after they closed a profitable game and pissed away a LOT of future customers and goodwill.  If they were based in the U.S., that would easily be grounds for a shareholder lawsuit.

Like I said, I am investigating.  This may not turn out to be a viable path but until I hear from an actual,  honest-to-goodness, degreed, certified, practicing lawyer, I'm not just going to stop looking into it on any one person's say so.  Ahem.

Go for it.


But there stock have been going down overall since Nov. 2011 at least and still above their May 2009 level and have risen the past 5 days. Not exactly tanking...at least not yet. But still, go for it. Never know until you try.

[NecrotechMaster]

its a good plan, but it could easily be turned around, if we only threatened to sue them if we had the evidence that could be considered blackmail and make us look bad

have to be careful with what you do with sensitive information

[Lightslinger]

Yeah, my bad that you didn't infer the intentional misspelling "are"="our" in order to be silly. I also missed the point where I made myself to be a lawyer AND the part where I told you to stop looking into legal counsel because of my proclaimed lawyerness. I'll blame the spellcheck or Siri for that I guess :shrug:

Do whatever you'd like, just pointing out something. No, we cant sue because they closed CoH, end of story. If your investigation turns up a different answer than that I would love to be proven wrong. We are a community after all, you volunteered info about something you were doing, am I not allowed to comment on it, albeit with a little snark?