Coh doesn't need the NC launcher at all, so there is nothing to break. Paragon Chat doesn't implement authserver, either, since it handles auth on its own window. The command line for launching the client to talk to Paragon Chat is cityofheroes.exe -project coh -db <IP>.
Funny thing: the COH client does not work with 127.0.0.1 as the server IP. If you pass it that IP, it will resolve the "real" IP for the local computer and connect to that, which triggers firewall warnings on Windows. To get around that, Paragon Chat tells the client to connect to 127.0.0.2, which works fine in Windows but not in Mac/Linux, because only 127.0.0.1 is configured as loopback by default in those operating systems. So, firewall warning, no Mac/Linux compatibility, or hack in Island Rum is needed. I better go talk to Manga.
interesting on the IP, seems CoX must have that built-in somewhere with a loop getting the IP from system, naturally that sets off warnings in windows. OK so -project coh, is -db necessary or can that be replaced with -auth <IP>? I assume it can. you know what I should have done, assumed City had shell/command line support and done cityofheroes.exe -h to see what popped up.
Best of luck.
He's going to need more than luck. Its hard to be certain, because what the text says doesn't always map to what he intends, but it sounds like he's saying even though Codewalker has done the heavy lifting of figuring out how the client works, and mapped client actions to XML messages, Joshex is going to throw that out the window and just do the messaging raw, himself, because XML's docs are too long. After, of course, he asks Codewalker "so, in a paragraph or two, how did you do that so I can replicate that work." Because freedom.
I'm rather at a loss. Codewalker's platform is about as good as it gets: anyone who can't bot this architecture deserves to have their programmer ID card confiscated. But he wants to reinvent the wheel with marshmallows and a box of toothpicks, and he's never seen a circle before.
There's always someone that wants to do it the impossible way, because they don't understand the easy way, and can't execute the hard way. If ever there was a time to sit down and learn the fundamentals, its now. Its never going to get easier to write a line of code that does something City of Heroes-like. Oh well.
no.
I have a great deal of respect for Codewalker and Leandro's work, it's not the length of the XML docs, it's the java dead-end I see ahead ( a dead-end for me because I don't have the time to learn java though it's probably only slightly different). Either I code a plug-in in java to communicate with an exterior program and hope that I can use the plug-in to send game object messages to the client, then code the server to handle that operation, or I start fresh and write a new system that works as a stand alone server. that triggered a switch in my brain that said "dude you know squat about java, and the current system sounds a bit restricted, best stick with what you know or it could cost you a lot of time, could be a fun python puzzle, besides you already know how most of this works in python, why use a different system and confuse yourself?" and that's how I arrived at the conclusion that I have.
Paragon chat works well as a chat system with 3D movement support interfacing with the CoX client (Bravo! well done thankyou! amazing!), but they already stated it's restrictions, even if I could route an XML stanza through the XMPP server containing timer or gate info in CoX's message format it would be ignored by the XMPP client. dead end.
I only plow through dead ends if there's no way around them. the way around is to start over in a system that has no such inherent restrictions. the way over is to go with the flow and do things XMPP's way with a java plugin.
Spoiler for Hidden:
"Allmmoooost there....." "dude why are you climbing over that skyscraper?, that street right next to you goes to the same place!" "Because I decided to use java to try and resolve a dead-end in the current program, ok!?" then a random java programmer walks by:
"Oh yes, java very good! perfect program, you need nothing else, best program in the world, I have job as programmer at Apple, when I came in they told me I need know C++, I said I do, I write everything in java, they just businessmen and don't know difference, their computers have virus I made, everybody have virus I made, I very successful Troll. you want work in C++? Ha no! java better! java has web support, java can splash screen, java in everything because it great for molesting internet freedoms, you don't want to do 'if statement'!, in java we do Class(), you no need python or C++ or assembly language developer, I Java I better. Java used be own by sun for solaris, now it owned by troll, you no read news? you should learn java! everyone should learn java! nothing should be coded in anything but java!, you will like it."
It just sounds so sleazy, like a stereotypical bad car salesman or infomercial actor trying to sell you a "real winner" on the piece-o-crap scale. or like the tone they use in all those scam video sites "*JUST USE OUR PROGRAM TO GET THOUSANDS IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT EACH WEEK*, I used cashquick and this is my paypal statement this month; I made 23 thousand dollars! *AND NOW YOU CAN TOO*"
second thought; walking around seems about good right now.
the above spoilered conversation is the outcome of every IRL conversation I've ever had with a Java coder professional or otherwise and why I gave up deep inside about making anything to work with PC the moment I heard 'plugin' + 'java' in this conversation. Not to say I'm discrediting PC, not to say I'm undermining their work or insulting them. not that I'm saying they can't go forwards with it.
I use python because I know it; I know it isn't the best or most capable and I know there is very little support for it in mainstream programs, and I will never force that opinion on others (especially with new python, there's a reason I use deprecated old 2.6.2 and it's not just because blender 2.49b runs it, it just so happens both blender and python made poor decisions to reconfigure themselves at about the same time and were/may still be crippled and not capable of what I need them to do) and as a final reason not to use java, I honestly don't want to be a douche like a lot of the people I've met to summarize the conversations into the paragraph above. Keep in mind I'm sure there are plenty of Java devs who aren't duche+bag+s, but I have never met them (I just have /ALL/ the luck don't I? at least I can't say my life is dull, I meet a corporate CEO? Corrupt_greedy_duche_INC., I meet a java developer? over-bragging Sir duchealot, I meet a duche? really funny, guy, really funny, why am I not laughing?, puts a bad impression in my mind of the things they own/use and people/society in general).
XMPP + needs java plugin == dead end + to me. #class that.
I'm not really ranting here, just explaining why I have this prohibition to working with java and that being the only option for adding in new features in Paragon Chat makes me consider starting over to accomplish the ski slopes timer and score system. I wanted to do a collab thing straight and simple: make timer, make player cubes to spawn when a message is received that they are in zone "pocket D", change their location to the location given by the server, when they hit a gate send the info to the server.
that way their work wouldn't go to waste, but XMPP has limitations I didn't expect. if I had made XMPP I would have forseen that people might someday want to send other 'miscellaneous' datatypes such as custom codes needed by other programs. So I expected the makers of XMPP to have done the same. nope. well then, Oh... Kay...
bad experiences with java people and programs, bad bad ones.
yes I know I've developed a bias against java from it, point is I don't want to associate myself with such a language if it's populated largely by those kind of people, it'd give me a bad name (yeah, I know that says a lot).
I joke, I joke.
final point, if you, codewalker or leandro want to use java to make new functions for PC, that's fine, more power to you and I'd be glad to see someone of your personality and knowledge caliber working with Java, seriously! it would be a welcomed change. but I'm not going to do java. Paragon chat was a lot of work and well done at that, major beyond kudos for it! very impressive and I'm sure you can eventually make all sorts of things happen with it! but for me to work on it in java, no.
But I want to try my hand at the ski slopes, and I know that's not a priority for codewalker at this moment, he has /MORE IMPORTANT/ things to do, I emphasize that on purpose, his work is important to us fans of CoX cause he indeed has something amazing to show that needs some finishing touches.
last time I met a java dev was in the supermarket, we were waiting for the final discounts to be done, he asks why I'm here in scotland, said for my masters, asked what I'm doing for my course, said making a game BOOM, JAVA DOUCHE ACTIVATE:
Spoiler for Hidden:
"you should use java, everything runs on java!, I use java, I make 23 quid an hour, java is perfect, why don;t you use java?"
because blender doesn't use java and I've already gotten a lot of the foundation built in blender and python
"oh you should scrap that and find a way to make a java plugin for blender"
blender doesn't use plugins like that.
"then you shouldn't use blender or find a way to hack it to accept java, use blahblah blah I know that runs java, if you want to be a real developer you need to use java or no one will ever buy your game and you can't publish it."
but programming from scratch in java like that means I'd need to program my own 3D space with complex linear algebra and physics, blender has that part done for me so I can focus on other things.
"of course, but then you have the pleasure of working with java, java is the best and I know a few companies who will buy your game if it's written in java"
I'm not making it for sale to some publisher not after what they did to some other games, I plan to run it myself
"just use java you'll feel like a better more intelligent person when you do, trust me just delete your work when you get home and go learn java you'll have your game in maybe 4 years."
but this is a one year masters and it's half way through
"don't worry about that, you tell your teacher java takes more time than that, it's ok if you flunk you will know java, you wont need an education, people will hire you"
so then I just said "uh huh..." and started nodding, got my discounts, and he was going on for another 45 minutes before he stopped following and let me go check out.
as I said, bad bad experiences with Java people that's why I sympathized with VV in another thread when she said "does Java get along with anybody?".
seriously the java coders I've met have literally given me a mental scar for life on all things Java.
or that company I went for an interview at, said they had a whole game system running on python and needed coders, they liked my work examples, said it was impressive, then said they normally don't use that much python actually, most of their system is written in Java, you know.. "for the web", but if I learned to use java they'd have a position for me, but right now that other guy over there knows java and knows squat of python so..
met these people at a python coders meeting too. fancy using 90% java and being a host at a python coders meeting.
If I made anything, I would not rival Codewalker and Leandro's project. It would be sent to them in source for their review, acceptance or rejection no strings attached. heck they can take credit for it as they did the ground work.I may have spent my fair share of time playing on villain side, but even then I still had at least that level of moral code and ethics, even in a supervillain group with Reich in the name (not my choice of name, but it's my friend's, friend's base, you know how that goes).
Taking credit for the info they give me here or taking credit for it's application in a program would be like taking credit for python itself just for using it.
I thank Codewalker and Leandro for being so informative and accommodating, and I thank Arcana for being so intelligent when it comes to code and stats. You all rock and keep up the good work.
I really need to learn to express myself and my intentions more clearly rather than give it out in little bits.