Author Topic: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?  (Read 43041 times)

DashaBlade

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #100 on: January 18, 2013, 07:56:41 PM »
One of the most common put-downs of happy endings that I see is "that's so cliche."

Except that it isn't cliche when it is mythic and archetypal.  The difference between cliche and archetype, 99 times out of a hundred, is in the skill of the writer, not in the concept itself.

And given that "dark and edgy" is now a cliche itself, it's time for a deconstruction of dark and edgy - which would be "happy".   8)

Tenzhi

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #101 on: January 19, 2013, 04:57:48 AM »
And given that "dark and edgy" is now a cliche itself, it's time for a deconstruction of dark and edgy - which would be "happy".   8)

Or, potentially, "dark and edgy" that's self aware enough to not take itself seriously.
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Samuel Tow

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #102 on: January 19, 2013, 02:07:02 PM »
Or, potentially, "dark and edgy" that's self aware enough to not take itself seriously.

I presume this could easily take the form of a Twilight style setting where the characters are presented with angsty drama and just shrug and go "Oh, OK. Cool, let's do that." Lead female wants to be turned into a vampire? Cool, let's do that. Vampires are awesome and immortal and super strong. Lead female caught in a love triangle? Cool, let's do that, as long as the dudes are cool with it. Let's be swingers, why not? You know, that sort of thing. I mean, I'd watch it.
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TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #103 on: January 19, 2013, 03:14:40 PM »
And given that "dark and edgy" is now a cliche itself, it's time for a deconstruction of dark and edgy - which would be "happy".   8)

Sadly, that doesn't seem to happen usually. Maybe with cliche story arcs, but not with overall attitudes or styles. I remember hearing a short interview with Rhianna on the radio, around the time that infinitely annoying "Umbrella" was being aired every 5 minutes. She talked about the new album, and she brought up the title, Good Girl Gone Bad. And she talked about how badly she wanted to imply that it was breaking new ground by being rebellious, naughty, and sexy. She treated it all like she was being some kind of an original pioneer with those concepts.

Seriously? Are you f'ing kidding me? Being a bad girl in the aptly named 00's is rebellious? Um, no. That's just being ordinary. Rebellion these days would be a modest, monogamous, Care Bear.

Tenzhi

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2013, 07:53:15 PM »
I presume this could easily take the form of a Twilight style setting where the characters are presented with angsty drama and just shrug and go "Oh, OK. Cool, let's do that." Lead female wants to be turned into a vampire? Cool, let's do that. Vampires are awesome and immortal and super strong. Lead female caught in a love triangle? Cool, let's do that, as long as the dudes are cool with it. Let's be swingers, why not? You know, that sort of thing. I mean, I'd watch it.

Right.  Like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, only with more guns and pouches or something.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #105 on: January 20, 2013, 12:39:09 AM »
Right.  Like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, only with more guns and pouches or something.

Gosh, just imagine the amount of material Joss would have had for parody if Buffy had been done post-Twilight.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #106 on: January 21, 2013, 02:17:23 AM »
Sadly, that doesn't seem to happen usually. Maybe with cliche story arcs, but not with overall attitudes or styles. I remember hearing a short interview with Rhianna on the radio, around the time that infinitely annoying "Umbrella" was being aired every 5 minutes. She talked about the new album, and she brought up the title, Good Girl Gone Bad. And she talked about how badly she wanted to imply that it was breaking new ground by being rebellious, naughty, and sexy. She treated it all like she was being some kind of an original pioneer with those concepts.

Seriously? Are you f'ing kidding me? Being a bad girl in the aptly named 00's is rebellious? Um, no. That's just being ordinary. Rebellion these days would be a modest, monogamous, Care Bear.

I find that the hallmark of someone who is entirely unoriginal and sans clue is that s/he is passionately convinced that what s/he is doing is 100% BRAND NEW AND ALL ORIGINAL AND WHY AREN'T YOU PAYING ATTENTION?

Someone who actually is creative and original is someone who knows very well that what s/he is doing is something that has been done before, but has been working hard on the project and hopes that what s/he has brought to the table this time is different enough that it is entertaining.

The difference?  The first one is concentrating on his/herself.  The second on his/her audience.
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TerminalVelocity

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #107 on: January 21, 2013, 01:01:29 PM »
IMO, you definitely have a point.

Thinking about it, even the Pokemon franchise took a darker turn.

EDIT: Here's the bad guy trying to kill the player, which has never even come close to happening before.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 01:09:03 PM by TerminalVelocity »
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Samuel Tow

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #108 on: January 23, 2013, 12:38:24 AM »
Recognising that "there are no new ideas" is something that comes with experience, I think. I've written a lot of stuff by this point, and there hasn't been an idea I've had that I thought was original which I didn't later find others having done pieces of before I even thought of it. And it's not always me overtly stealing with people as it was with Sam Tow (who's based on I think four of my favourite characters), because a lot of the time it's just different people coming up with the same idea. I find that "originality" isn't so much about coming up with new ideas as it is about making old ideas fresh again... And covering your tracks very well :)

The trouble with writing, as with most other "skills," is that if you set an inexperienced writer to it, it REALLY shows in the end product. We're all fans of the genres we write for so we know what we like, but we very rarely know WHY we like it. The trouble with that is it leaves a story sort of "weak" and unable to impact us because we're being told it's cool with no setup or leadup. I know I've said this before, but inexperienced writers tend to bite off more than they can chew.

I've had A LOT of issues with Doc Aeon's writing, but I think most of it stems from his inexperience as a writer. He was a good mission designer back then, but he wasn't experienced enough to be a lead writer and set the pace, and so what he wanted out of his stories sort of overshadowed his ability to pull it off. And what he wanted out of his stories was pretty edgy and required quite a bit of work to get away with, which I think he only really learned to do towards the end. Someone described his work as "all payoff, no buildup" and that's really where experience makes the difference.

All of this is a roundabout way of saying that it feels like gaming has sort of jumped a generation and many new games are manned by all young developers that may not always have the experience necessary to pull them off. You can sort of fudge gameplay and graphics and come up with something decent, but you really can't fudge story for those that care. Tomb Raider: Underworld is a game with actually quite terrible gameplay and uninspired graphics that nevertheless still works as it's still competent. But when I'm fighting the controls and getting a headache from the bad camera, all for the reward of a story that's not worth seeing? That's just a fail all around. I don't know that Underworld was actually the result of a new developer as I'm pretty sure it was just a BAD developer, but the example stands.

So, how much of that do you think is down to writer inexperience putting the theme before the execution and how much is it down to just "that's what sells?"
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Colette

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #109 on: January 24, 2013, 05:36:25 PM »
I'm gonna weigh in on this one.

First, Samuel, I don't think "inexperienced" is the issue so much as untaught. I know talented novice writers who, having studied the right books, produced fine work. I strongly advocate aspiring writers ruminate upon the texts below.

TV Tropes names the mood-choice we're discussing "Darker and Edgier." It is, in my opinion, the default choice of untaught writers. It's easy.

I appreciate "dark" material. I also enjoy "lighter and softer." It all depends upon the theme the writer is developing or the effect he's communicating.

In Lajos Egri's The Art of Dramatic Writing, the playwright offers theme as a tentpole or central pillar. Characterization, plot, setting and mood support this pillar, forming a stable structure. "Darker and Edgier" is a mood. The theme you're trying to communicate determines what choices you'll make for mood.

By contrast, Edgar Allan Poe in his Philosophy of Composition adds the goal "the emotion you're trying to convey."

Sadly, few video games have a theme. Let's examine the excellent Arkham Asylum games. The plot's solid, the mood is palpable and dark without being offensive or oppressive (which I appreciate.) What's the theme? There isn't one, is there? It's all just an excuse for Batman to pound the Joker. And that's a shame, Paul Dini offered memorable themes in Batman, the Animated Series.

However, Arkham succeeds by Poe's criteria. The finale of Arkham City is startlingly melancholy. (To be fair, City did offer the rudiments of a theme with "Protocol Ten," contrasted against Batman's Code Against Killing. But it's underdeveloped.)

Consider the older, now almost-legendary game Alpha Centauri. The game's theme is humanity would reach its full potential if we humbly accept our place in the larger environmental context rather than fighting to dominate and exploit nature. Of humanity's other pursuits (international peace, martial valor, wealth and prosperity,) only scientific investigation is even tacitly endorsed. Tyranny and religious bigotry are soundly condemned. Big themes! If that game was remade today, much would be made of the settler's hardships, the suffering of soldiers defending the settlements against "mind worms..." emotionally effective, absolutely. But the grander theme would be lost amid all that doom and gloom.

Following this logic, we'd expect fantasy games to gravitate towards the bloody-handed action-adventure of Conan more than to the thematically heavy Lord of the Rings. And indeed, this is so.

In my opinion, "darker and edgier" makes emotional effects easy, even cheap. Yes, a story is stronger with potent emotional effects. But when writers don't pick that gloomy mood, they have nothing to hide the theme-shaped hole in their stories, and the emperor stands revealed in his nudity.

To demonstrate the alternative extreme, let's examine the polar opposite of dark, oppressive, dystopian fiction: the Utopia, or the "sugar bowl" of children's fantasy. Star Trek has always been utopian, even in its grimmest incarnations (such as Deep Space 9.) Each episode ended with Kirk and crew on the bridge summing up what they'd learned from their latest planet. The audience responded by making it a mega-franchise. My Little Pony is almost cloyingly sweet, each ending with another letter to dear princess Celestia. It shows every sign of growing into another mega-franchise. Both rely upon ideas and themes because they can't hide behind mood.

City of Heroes did not hide behind "darker and edgier," either.

"Rebellion these days would be a modest, monogamous Care Bear."

Indeed! I'd go so far as to say there's a cultural revolt underway against grim 'n gritty.

So in my opinion, video game producers apparently commission "darker and edgier" content in the (correct) belief that such material sells, but have no understanding of theme at all. From a writing perspective, that's brass-ackwards. Until they take storytelling seriously, they will continue to produce beautiful, grim, emotionally effective but thematically pointless gaming experiences that, as Damon Knight put it in Creating Short Fiction, end not with "The End," but with "So What?"
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 07:36:49 PM by Colette »

Samuel Tow

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #110 on: January 25, 2013, 01:27:14 AM »
First, Samuel, I don't think "inexperienced" is the issue so much as untaught.

Well said, though I still feel experience and having gotten it wrong helps you see where all the strings are attached. You do make a point, though, and I think City of Heroes' Doc Aoen era content shows precisely this problem of being untaught, or rather unguided. I don't think the Doc was a bad writer, but I do think he had very little experience in how his stories affect his audience, and because of Matt Miller's policy of "let the writers write whatever they want," nobody was there to reality-check his writing. Nobody butted into his job to ask "Are you sure this is a good idea?" or ask "OK, why are you going down this way?" Nobody made him think about what he's doing and ask the hard questions, nobody told him his baby was ugly. And I'm not saying his baby IS ugly, but that being told so is valuable. It forces you to defend your baby, and it forces you to fix your baby.

I myself have been writing for many years now, and I can tell you one thing for a fact - nothing, but NOTHING, is as valuable as a person who's read your story and wants discuss it with you. Nothing as valuable as a person who gives you feedback on both the good and the bad. This sort of guidance is what experience is born from, because it teaches a writer what he can and can't do, how he can do what he can do better and how he can avoid doing what he can't do more covertly. I, for instance, can't write love scenes to save my life. Just can't, I'm shit at it. The very few times I've painted myself in a corner of having to write one, I've found outs to skim over it, because I'm trash at the things. Fair's fair.

I really do feel the studio needed an editor, by which I mean a person whose sole job was to read what the writers have written and then speak with them about it. This includes fixing basic errors like leftover HTML tags, "diffusing bombs," the department of redundancy department, etc. It would, however, also include checking the writers for continuity, theme and basic skill and making them think about what they're doing. Aeon, for instance, had the consistent tendency to write in vague terms. Remember my rant about Roy Cooling's "tech" that's referred to as a chip once and a circuit board another time? How it can't be copied except when it can? A write is his own worst editor.

So in my opinion, video game producers apparently commission "darker and edgier" content in the (correct) belief that such material sells, but have no understanding of theme at all. From a writing perspective, that's brass-ackwards. Until they take storytelling seriously, they will continue to produce beautiful, grim, emotionally effective but thematically pointless gaming experiences that, as Damon Knight put it in Creating Short Fiction, end not with "The End," but with "So What?"

Funny you should mention that. One of my favourite games of all time is THQ's Darksiders (the first one) because it's almost singularly based around theme before it's based around plot, setting or characters. Yeah, the theme is a bit derivative - WoW meets Wahammer 40K - but it's still omnipresent in every single part of the game, from the art style to the voice cast to the gameplay to the story. If you happen to like that theme - and I do - there are few games as good for it, and it ends in precisely the opposite of "so what."

To go back on my word, I don't really find "And they all lived happily ever after!" endings to be very satisfying because I'm basically being told "We're done, everyone's happy." Darksiders has the sort of "I want more!" ending that really works for me, because it's a cliffhanger ending without being a cliffhanger ending. It's the sort of awesomeness that makes me, at least, stand up and cheer and feel everything that's taken part in the game has been worth it... But man would I want to see a sequel because what's being suggested is just awesome! It's satisfying in the sense that everything in the game has been wrapped up, and it's exciting because it leaves the door open for a new story.

Shaman King had a similar ending. The evil shaman has been defeated, the world is saved and everyone's sort of going back to their normal lives. You're almost sad to see these characters fade into the background and... Well, "grow up." BUT THEN! Their manacles flare back up and they are all summoned again! New adventure awaits! New foes to battle, new friends to make and new discoveries to make! And that's how the show ends, and it's awesome. We've seen the story we were following through to its end, but we're reminded that more stories will be told, just as more stories have been told already. This isn't THE end, it's just a very good place to stop.

To turn this back around to City of Heroes, I was actually really happy with the original theme the game started out with, which is "You are a hero, you do the right thing and you should feel proud of yourself for doing it!" Yes, it's a bit simplistic and childish, but so what? It works. It makes me feel happy to be part of it and it keeps me engaged. Villains took it up the ass with Launch content because their theme was more along the lines of "You are a horrible person and you should be ashamed of yourself1" That sucked. It sapped all the fun out of the game because it was actively making me regret playing it. That was its theme. However, it hit its stride with Dean McArthur and his "You're a big bad villain and you don't take shit from nobody! Go show the world how awesome you are!" Yeah, it's childish in just the same way as the hero version, but again - it put a smile on my face and it made me fist-pump to myself, and that's a win in my book.

It wasn't until Aeon's "darkity" storytelling that I started feeling like shit again because that seemed to be his aim - make the story deep via emotional manipulation. Show a dog getting shot and we'll react because that's disturbing, but that's not a theme, it's just a story element... After story element after story element. I'll always remember a quote from Bennett the Sage's review of Grave of the Fireflies: "We're not sad that Sata and Setsuko are suffering, we're sad because we're watching kids die." That's precisely my problem with SSA1 in its entirety, and with much of modern gaming's "edge" these days. We're not sad on an emotional level from sharing in the pain of characters we care about, we're sad on an instinctive level because we're being shown depressing imagery. And you need look no further than Tomb Raider's ad campaign which tried to disturb us not by making us sympathise with Lara and wanting to see her survive against nasty odds, but by watching a young woman stabbed, crucified, nearly drowned and nearly getting raped.

Far too many game writers these days ignore having a theme of their own for the sake of beating us over the head with a specific mood they want to exude, completely forgetting that THAT specific mood is a means to an end, rather than the end itself. Whether that end be fun or emotional impact or just telling a story with a unique angle, "angst" and "drama" are tools to achieving it and nothing more. To linger on them to the detrement of the story's theme is to shoot yourself in the foot. I think Jim Sterling said it well in his Crying Through the Laughs video. Yes, his main point is that you need levity in order for drama to be effective, but the deeper point is that both levity and drama work together to a greater end result than just wallowing in base emotions.

---

Here's where I get a tad controversial, but to me the angsty games of today are no better than porn, say something like Sexy Beach Zero (I can't share it, please don't ask), in that... Well, porn may masquerade as a movie or a game, but that's not the point of it. Let's be "decent" and say it's about "sex." It may dress itself up in different settings, give itself different themes and even try to tell a story, but all of it is just window dressing to provide variety for the sex. It's not trying to be a story. Angsty games are very similar, in that they pretend to have a plot, a story and a theme, but simply use those as a backdrop for the mood they're trying to convey. They don't expect you to seek them out for the storytelling, they expect you to seek them out because they're going to show you emotionally draining imagery in much the same way that you go to a porn because it's going to show you titties.

I'm not saying that every sad story is "like porn," of course not. I'm merely suggesting that games which overfoucs on being darker and edgier are targeting a similar base emotion to that of porn, which is something we want to see even if it ruins the story it's presented in. And that's my key problem with the course of storytelling in gaming - this need to be darker and edgier is ruining otherwise good stories.
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Colette

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #111 on: January 27, 2013, 03:58:11 AM »
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 04:25:36 AM by Colette »

Samuel Tow

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #112 on: January 27, 2013, 02:24:41 PM »
Only a few comments, as I agree with most everything else.

Not to be contrary, but the more I've read and written, the more I find I am my own most demanding audience. The work must please me first before I will dare inflict the thing upon my long-suffering readers. I'm at a stage now (thank heaven!) where mostly the audience, pleased with the overall effect and structure, merely tinkers.

A creator is his own worst critic, in general, just because being the creator blindsides you to its flaws born of your own personality and style. This is true with any story, and indeed any creation. Even a perfectionist creator will still end up with something that can benefit from an objective eye which interprets things differently. The thing of it is that a story writer is the god of the story and is all-knowing. To him, certain things make sense because he knows how they fit into the broader narrative. However, an unaware reader may find them confusing, dull or even disturbing without knowing the the full scope of the story. That's why I'm saying that a writer is his own worst editor - because he's editing a work that he already knows and has done all the editing before he even finishes it.

To my eyes, a story published without a fresh set of eyes passing over it is a story published unfinished. No matter how good the writer may be, the story still needs to be proof-read by someone else just as no matter how good a game designer is, a game still needs to be playtested. No better example of this exists in modern gaming than Double-Fine's "The Cave," which to my eyes was never thoroughly playtested, if it was playtested at all. Within half an hour of gameplay, I managed to break the game three different ways doing nothing out of the ordinary, before I finally gave up althogether.

My point is that "a fresh perspective" is something a writer is incapable of having, unless you write a story, then file it away for five years and go back to it when you no longer remember it.

Well, pornography of both the erotic and the violent variety occupy a special level in Artists' Hell. But one may be creatively inept without being morally bankrupt.

I didn't actually mean to bring up pornography as an example of morally and creatively deficient form of expression. Far from it - some of my most favourite games of all times have been the various Bishujo titles of the 90s, "True Love" probably most of all. However, those mix narrative and pornography in an attempt to make a coherent, sometimes even touching story. They aren't as gratuitous as damn near anything published by Illusion, though their Sexy Beach franchise is probably the least gross.

My point was that most contemporary porn - good or bad - is focused on its own... Well, porn. You don't go to it for anything but what's on the cover, which is usually women holding their titties, surprisingly enough. It's not going anywhere with it, it doesn't have a point, it's not trying to say something. It's just porn. To me, that's what wangst has become these days. You don't buy a game for its story or its gameplay or its message, you buy it because you can be pretty sure it's going to be damn depressing. Or, at least, that's what game developers think you're doing, if their advertisments are anything to go by.

Watch an ad for a porn movie and then compare it to, say, an older ad for the new Tomb Raider game. The former will advertise pretty much one thing: This movie will have sex in it, plus good-looking women and optionally good-looking men. So what does the latter promise us? In this game, Lara will be stabbed, drowned, crucified and molested. That's WHY I'm expected to buy this game. It tells me jack shit about its gameplay, it tells me nothing about its story or characters, it tells me nothing about the game, other than it has Lara Croft in it and she gets tortured. A lot. I mean, what else would I need to know?

That's why I draw this parallel. The wangst games of today aren't using their wangst as a tool to create something greater. They're simply wallowing in their own self-pity because we're expected to enjoy that.
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Colette

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #113 on: January 27, 2013, 06:51:18 PM »
"To my eyes, a story published without a fresh set of eyes passing over it is a story published unfinished."

Oh, granted! There's no doubt that a new set of eyes and fresh perspective absolutely improves a work. Preachin' to the choir there. However, as I said, I've heard common complaints with my earlier work and repair them as I go nowadays. Benefits of experience.

My objection to pornography in any form is more visceral. If a creator shows a loving emotional bond forming between interesting characters, I love every minute of the teasing and flirting. I'll even allow a moment's peek confirming that, yes, they're in bed together. If the story requires us to know that a character has a particular sexual quirk or hangup, (establish narcissism by having a big mirror in the room, establish bisexuality or homosexuality by their choice of partner, establish a cruel or masochistic streak by showing some painful toys left lying around) that's all fine.

I do not need to see the plumbing. That's not characterization or erotica, that's objectification and exploitation, and also an unforgivable lapse in taste. I hope you'll forgive me this -- exposure to pornography may well interfere with a writer's ability to create a good romantic scene. This is a bit of a tangent, so moving on....

"In this game, Lara will be stabbed, drowned, crucified and molested."

I will go pretty far with a creator in this direction, but no farther. A villain becomes truly memorable when he manages to hurt the hero. The Borg became memorable when they captured and assimilated Picard. The Green Goblin became Spider-Man's biggest menace when he killed Gwen Stacy. Discord horrified me when he repeatedly used the "Mind Rape" trope in what I'd thought was a childrens' cartoon. Iago utterly destroys Othello. Vader "executes" Han Solo. Norman stabs Marion Crane. The Joker shoots Barbara and kills Jason. Ratched fries McMurphy's brains. Beatty burns down Montag's house. Cthulhu drives Johansen mad. AM virtually tortures five people. The list goes on.

But yes, there comes a point where it becomes exploitative rot, and even the best writers aren't immune. Shakespeare did an early play called Titus Andronicus where the characters' suffering goes so far for so long as to provoke laughter rather than horror. He falls prey to bathos again in one of his last plays, Cymbeline, where his romantic lead wakes up next to a beheaded corpse wearing her husband's clothing. That's why these are obscure Shakespeare.

It comes down to bad writing. Computer games are subject to Sturgeon's Law, same as any other art form.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 11:11:22 PM by Colette »

Samuel Tow

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #114 on: January 28, 2013, 12:48:47 AM »
I, myself, am much more open to pornography than is probably reasonable. I don't say this to sound weird, merely to explain that when I said what I said, I wasn't trying to condemn. There's a reason I can quote titles like Yuusha or Nocturnal Illusions off-hand. I think it's important to explain this so that you can see my stance more clearly. I have no real problem with objectification or exploitation as a general concept, be it in porn or in tasteless gaming. Some of the most entertaining movies of the 90s were exploitative, for instance. Say, Arnie's Commando. You don't watch that movie for the acting or for the story, you watch it because Arnold has pecks and he looks good shooting dudes. That's fine - it's mostly harmless, bloody violence aside. Much in the same way, you don't watch Girls Bravo because of the plot or setting. You watch it for the fanservice - that's all it really has. I'm reminded of the time when we all got on David Nakayama's case for the Gunslinger and Barbarian costume sets - and rightly so - but my problem was never the fact that the costumes were exploitative. That's fine. I was bitter that the options I wanted which really should have been there were missing.

What I'm trying to say is I don't mind a movie or a game that's basically about exploiting a specific theme with the impression that it's good or cool or contemporary or what have you. Hell, I don't even really have a problem with Twilight like so many seem to. It's a movie targeted at a specific audience that that specific audience enjoys. Oh, no! What I dislike are the Twilight knockoffs that crowded cinemas a couple of years back. More to point, I don't dislike that angsty games exist, but rather that there are so overwhelmingly many of them. I don't have a problem with a game being to angst what Debbie Does Dallas is to porn. After all, I played Limbo. But to see this "pollute" existing franchises and change THEM into angsty titles? Why? It's just homogenising what used to be a variety of themes.

Actually, I have a very good objective example - DMC: Devil May Cry. I'm not familiar with the prequels to this remake, but the game itself is pretty dark, brutal and vulgar - exactly the thing for someone who isn't into "care bear games." It's kind of heavy at times, it has a lot of F-bombs, it has a protagonist who doesn't give a shit about anything but his own carnal desires... And yet when all is said and done, this entire parade of ugly sex, puke, blood and bloated corpses still manages to be incredibly hopeful, uplifting and inspirational. It proves me right when I say that it's OK to be dark and brutal if you're going somewhere with it, and if you want to know what I mean, play DMC. That's almost exactly what I was talking about word for word.

And yet the whole thing is exploitive. It has abandoned its predecessors' emphasis on over-the-top glorified action and gone with a more "gritty" look of crude, vulgar and disgusting themes, almost revelling in how "wrong" everything is. It's exploitive, an the exploitation is very effective, but it's still an enjoyable experience because it exploits those themes for a reason, and cashes it all in towards the end.

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My point? There's nothing to be ashamed of in storytelling but doing a bad job as a writer. If you can make otherwise reprehensible themes work, then more power to you, but you have to be VERY good to pull it off. And if you use reprehensible themes for the sake of wallowing in the grit, all you'll end up is looking dirty. Have a point, sir! Or at least be honest about what you're writing.
Of all the things I've lost,
I think I miss my mind the most.

Graphite

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #115 on: January 28, 2013, 10:14:40 PM »
Right now I'm playing The Secret World, which also came out last year.  While I love it, it is really really dark, and so I don't think it will be to long until I start playing Champions for something more upbeat.  I noticed at christmas time that ALOT of the sci movies coming out this year are really dark.... usually dealing with zombies, alien invasions, or the end of civilization.  Even Star Trek which is always optimistic about humanity's future looks dark.

Personally I blame two factors:
1) The Mayan Calander: It was on everyone's mind and was suppose to be the end of the world after all.
2) The Great Recession: Many people are still facing financial hardship and the futures market isn't too good.

However, it's more than that.  Media and fiction is a reflection of the times that create it.  There is this feeling in the air to me, it's almost palapable.  As if America and thus Wester Civilizations greatest days are now behind us.  That use to be nutter talk, but now its as though everyone is thinking it, but no one wants to really say it.  That in of itself is bound to create some "dark" times ahead.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #116 on: January 28, 2013, 10:39:06 PM »
Personally I blame two factors:
1) The Mayan Calander: It was on everyone's mind and was suppose to be the end of the world after all.
2) The Great Recession: Many people are still facing financial hardship and the futures market isn't too good.

However, it's more than that.  Media and fiction is a reflection of the times that create it.  There is this feeling in the air to me, it's almost palapable.  As if America and thus Wester Civilizations greatest days are now behind us.  That use to be nutter talk, but now its as though everyone is thinking it, but no one wants to really say it.  That in of itself is bound to create some "dark" times ahead.

I've been getting that feeling for a long time. It'd be very hard to pin it on any one thing. But certain things that we used to think were just temporary BS in humanity's development are starting to look like things we''ll never be rid of. General war is just one example of that. Greed keeps finding new ways to dig its way into everything and shape our future into something bad. And even if that weren't the case, it almost feels like we're being set up for a global meltdown. Pollution is reaching the breaking point, oil reserves are low, populations continue to increase at an exponential rate even as the amount of arable land is in a decline (as are the jobs, as automation/globalization eliminates more and more of them).

And then, it's impact on sci-fi? The general populous has given up on the future, more or less. Human progress, which was once running forward at an unbelievable speed, seems to be hitting a plateau. If you asked anyone in the 60's what we'd be doing right now, they'd say we would be cruising around in fusion-powered personal aero/space jets. They'd say hunger is no longer an issue, and neither is disease. They'd imagine awesome communication systems that would bring people closer together.

What do we have? The same internal combustion cars that we've been using since the beginning. Sure, there's some hybrids, but since they're reliant on electricity that comes from power plants, they're still reliant on a limited resource. Flight has become more expensive instead of less. People are not only hungry now, but even the thought of improving one's life is gone because there's no jobs. Medicine? An industry that would kill itself if it actually discovered cures. The awesome communication system? Facebook, giving people all sorts of wonderful new ways to bicker over the most meaningless crap and hate one another - a tool that has further polarized society to the point where having a differing opinion is equivalent to insulting someone's honor. There's a struggle to get rid of the gods too, which (while I fully admit has had the negative impact of war) are also a source of hope. A hope that is now being called infantile.

Our exploration of space has revealed a much less life-sustaining universe than what we once expected. Any "Earth 2" that might be out there is so distant that we will probably never get to see it. A sad reality is setting in that the light speed barrier may be unbreakable.

To summarize, the general consensus is: It all sucks, it's getting worse, and to top it all off, we're stuck here.

Ironbull

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #117 on: January 29, 2013, 02:15:49 AM »
Predictability is an ugly thing.  So much that someone decided to change things up and it worked like a charm.  They cashed in the "Happy" endings for pain and misery.  Maybe it was so gamers could identify with the emotions of the characters, maybe it was just to change things up.  Problem is in my opinion, they take a good thing and ruin it.  I do think games are a little too dark, and too edgey.  How much blood is too much?  Do we really need another Anti Hero? Maybe.  I think there is a place for happy endings and traditional heroes.  At the same time, dark and edgey is what sells.  The Dark Knight series worked wonders for the Batman comics.  Spawn was new, and raw and it sold well.  Look at Graphic novels such as Sin City, History of Violence, and The Watchmen.  As far as games go, Mortal Kombat took the edge and re-defined it.  When edgey is done right, I think it works well.  When it's done as a last ditch effort to save a crappy game, re-vitalize a series, or just because, it makes us hungry for the old days of Mario saving Princess Peach.

Colette

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #118 on: January 29, 2013, 09:18:37 AM »
Hee hee! Y'all hafta excuse me. I'm not laughing at you. Just I've seen some years now, and have perspective.

I've been through economic "hard times" before, and this is really no worse. I remember the gloom of the millenium, when everyone was wearing black leather trenchcoats like in The Matrix and predicting armaggedon via the Y2K bug. We just survived the Mayan apocalypse. Year before, some church guy started taking out billboard predicting the end in May of 2011. (He later claimed there was an error in his calculations. I wonder if anyone made him show his work.) So all my life, hysterics have been predicting the End of the World, or the Fall of Western Civilization or the Birth of the Antichrist or the Kali Yuga.

Hasn't happened yet.

Samuel Tow

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Re: Is it me, or are we in a "dark" age of gaming?
« Reply #119 on: January 29, 2013, 10:44:12 AM »
However, it's more than that.  Media and fiction is a reflection of the times that create it.  There is this feeling in the air to me, it's almost palapable.  As if America and thus Wester Civilizations greatest days are now behind us.  That use to be nutter talk, but now its as though everyone is thinking it, but no one wants to really say it.  That in of itself is bound to create some "dark" times ahead.

Please excuse me for saying something that might seem inflammatory at first, but "America" is not synonymous with "Western Civilization." It may be, for the American continents, but Much of Western Europe is just as "western" and just as much as much a world power as the US, it's simply split up into more independent nations. Again - I don't want to be a US-hater, but I do have an issue with equating the US with the world, and you see this done a lot, usually unintentionally. Hell, I love the Nostalgia Critic and I wanted to slap him with his own hat when he talked about the US president as "the leader of the free world."

I realise that times now may seem bleak, but when have they not? I live in a country that used to be part of the former Soviet Block. We were a USSR member state until 1989, and we've been in a steady, unending decline both politically and economically since then. I live in a country that's defined by corruption, class inequality, crime and no opportunities. I've lived in this never-ending reformation nearly all my life - born 1984. I'm a child of "democracy" and I've seen every last way in which it can be abused. I've seen ethnic hatred and violence, I've seen economic collapse, I've seen alarmist attitudes portend the end of our nation. I'm not old by any stretch - don't even have 30 yet - but I've seen my fair share of end-of-the-world predictions, and they consistently fail to come true.

Remember back in the 80s when it seemed like Japan was about to take over the world? Remember back in the 90s when it seemed like gang violence was about to tear the US apart? Remember the 2000s when it seemed like terrorists were going to kill us all? I remember a study which found that every generation felt that their world was much worse than that of the generation which came before, and usually felt that things were finally getting unmanageable, but the world has persisted for quite a while now, and I've no reason to believe it won't persist for a while yet. We find ingenuity in adversity.

I guess my broader point here is that, as a child of "communism meets democracy," and as someone who sees corruption and social unrest in my everyday life, I see no practical reason to look at more of that in my games. If I wanted dark, depressing thoughts, I'd walk out my front door or turn on the news. I can get that elsewhere, I don't need games to do it for me. What I CAN'T do is save the world or fight aliens or save a princess. THAT I would like to do more of in my games :)
Of all the things I've lost,
I think I miss my mind the most.