News?

[DrakeGrimm]

Good luck on the latter, as I don't think the former is possible.

Get on board, or get out of our way.

[Mister Bison]

Want a hat made out of tin foil? I'm being serious here. You can't prove that for the same reasons no one was talking about the negotiations in the first place. If you are so delusional as to think that anyone that is in the position to know what offers were made or considered would reveal those offers, there is nothing anyone can tell you about the situation that you would believe.

NCsoft probably set a value for the IP and Paragon Studios that equaled its total investment over the last 7 years and likely wouldn't settle for less. It doesn't matter though as the results are the same: The game getting canceled.

Still, I want a FAQ set up with those questions answered:
Did you consider simply closing the studio and putting the game on "retirement" with skeleton crew ?

Not necessarily precising with who or for how much or what terms, but answer with the maximum amount of information, how many IP/license/data buyout offers did you consider ? Did you receive ?

Considering City of Heroes in its current state did not fit in your "future plans", as of August 31.'s annoucement, do you even intend to use the IP in the future ?

If City of Heroes has a special place in NCSoft's heart, do you intend on putting Guild Wars 2 next to it ?

well, the last one may be snarky, but what does it cost them to answer that ?

[Samuraiko]

That's an important point.  They seem to have already fired Zwil, Hitstreak more than likely realizes that deviating AT ALL from the PR will get him booted as well.

Correction - the closure of Paragon Studios notwithstanding, Zwill left so he could focus on his family for a time before beginning the job search in earnest.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

[void hunter]

Get on board, or get out of our way.

This person had neither voiced direct opposition, nor did they stand in your way. They expressed an opinion, which is the same as what you express. They're saying this isn't some elaborate conspiracy theory designed to take the fight out of their enemy. They're right to put it simply.

NCSoft doesn't fear you guys, they barely even noticed you, if they did at all. The PR statement of "We heard you but..." says two things. One, the offer wasn't high enough to be taken seriously. And second they already knew they were going to upset us, so anything we do won't really be taken all that seriously either. They PLANNED on pissing off what, between 50k and 100k players? Why would 20k people sway them? They're being "polite" in their own way, as polite as a corporation ending a customer relationship is going to be.

Don't jump on someone because they aren't taking this as an epic crusade. If you choose that path, you'll easily cut your numbers in half. There are quite a few signatures on that petition from non-players who did it to support people they knew. Be proud that you stood / stand for something, regardless of the result. It was probable from go that they were going to react this way, even the activists said the chances were slim. All that person did was comment about it.

[Snow Globe]

Get on board, or get out of our way.

As void hunter said, I'm not "in your way". However, I'm not going to join a fruitless crusade over a video game. Life is too short for that.

If you want to act like a lemming, go for it. I'm not going to get in anyone's way of making a fool of themselves. Any realistic examination of the situation will tell you that NCsoft has made up its mind. You aren't willing or able to go to the limits you would need to really get your way.

• Letter writing isn't going to cut it.
• News reports isn't going to cut it.
• Not buying anything from NCsoft is going to cut it.

What will? There is only one way short of violence that I can see, and you don't have enough money to do it: Buy controlling stock in NCsoft. I'm talking an overwhelming percentage of NCsoft stock, enough to ram through anything you want. For that you likely need to be someone on this list:

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/

As I said, not going to happen, especially in 2 months.

That leaves violence, though that isn't very heroic or even moderately sane.

Still, I want a FAQ set up with those questions answered:
Did you consider simply closing the studio and putting the game on "retirement" with skeleton crew ?

Not necessarily precising with who or for how much or what terms, but answer with the maximum amount of information, how many IP/license/data buyout offers did you consider ? Did you receive ?

Considering City of Heroes in its current state did not fit in your "future plans", as of August 31.'s announcement, do you even intend to use the IP in the future ?

If City of Heroes has a special place in NCSoft's heart, do you intend on putting Guild Wars 2 next to it ?

well, the last one may be snarky, but what does it cost them to answer that ?

Given my past experience working with a multi-national company, it would be my understanding the following responses:

You won't get a FAQ.

The bean counters examined the possibility of keeping the servers running, the upper management has decided that it isn't making enough money to keep going.

You will never get answers to "how many offers you dealt with", ever. Well, not unless you were upper management at NCsoft.

I doubt they have any plans for future use of the IP. Yet, they like hoarding IPs "just in case". Like hoarders they have an over-inflated sense of the IP's value and won't hear offers with realistic value for the IP. In this case it is sort of like the players "on the crusade" in that they aren't considering what it would take.

As a guesstimate, I'd say 50,000 subscribers paying $10,000 each (or a 100,000 subscribers paying $5,000 each) would be needed to be taken seriously by NCsoft.

[DrakeGrimm]

As void hunter said, I'm not "in your way". However, I'm not going to join a fruitless crusade over a video game. Life is too short for that.

If you want to act like a lemming, go for it. I'm not going to get in anyone's way of making a fool of themselves. Any realistic examination of the situation will tell you that NCsoft has made up its mind. You aren't willing or able to go to the limits you would need to really get your way.

• Letter writing isn't going to cut it.
• News reports isn't going to cut it.
• Not buying anything from NCsoft is going to cut it.

What will? There is only one way short of violence that I can see, and you don't have enough money to do it: Buy controlling stock in NCsoft. I'm talking an overwhelming percentage of NCsoft stock, enough to ram through anything you want. For that you likely need to be someone on this list:

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/

As I said, not going to happen, especially in 2 months.

That leaves violence, though that isn't very heroic or even moderately sane.
Given my past experience working with a multi-national company, it would be my understanding the following responses:

You won't get a FAQ.

The bean counters examined the possibility of keeping the servers running, the upper management has decided that it isn't making enough money to keep going.

You will never get answers to "how many offers you dealt with", ever. Well, not unless you were upper management at NCsoft.

I doubt they have any plans for future use of the IP. Yet, they like hoarding IPs "just in case". Like hoarders they have an over-inflated sense of the IP's value and won't hear offers with realistic value for the IP. In this case it is sort of like the players "on the crusade" in that they aren't considering what it would take.

As a guesstimate, I'd say 50,000 subscribers paying $10,000 each (or a 100,000 subscribers paying $5,000 each) would be needed to be taken seriously by NCsoft.

If you aren't going to back us, why are you here? Hmm? Except to spout negativity and attempt to demoralize us, of course.

[Snow Globe]

If you aren't going to back us, why are you here? Hmm? Except to spout negativity and attempt to demoralize us, of course.

I'd suggest you stop doing/taking whatever is making you paranoid and delusional.

Set some realistic expectations and you'll be happier. If an 11th hour reprieve happens, I'll be pleasantly surprised. On the other hand, I'm not going to get my hopes up, or anyone else's hopes that anything short of a hostile takeover (financially or physically) will accomplish much. I don't want to see anyone else having their hopes dashed so much that they might do something that can't be taken back.

Have you worked for a multi-national company? I have for two: MCI and EDS. The company I was with was traded from the first to the second, and the division I was with was laid off less than a month after the paperwork was done for switching employees over. I know exactly what is happening here.

[TimtheEnchanter]

I'd suggest you stop doing/taking whatever is making you paranoid and delusional.

@_@..... a snow globe is talking to me.....

Yes... I shall indeed stop taking my prescribed LSD right now.

[Snow Globe]

@_@..... a snow globe is talking to me.....

Yes... I shall indeed stop taking my prescribed LSD right now.

Haha. At least you can see the humor.

[Aggelakis]

I'd suggest you stop doing/taking whatever is making you paranoid and delusional.

Set some realistic expectations and you'll be happier. If an 11th hour reprieve happens, I'll be pleasantly surprised. On the other hand, I'm not going to get my hopes up, or anyone else's hopes that anything short of a hostile takeover (financially or physically) will accomplish much. I don't want to see anyone else having their hopes dashed so much that they might do something that can't be taken back.

I don't want you to take this as some sort of official reprimand or anything, this is just a personal opinion.

This is a subforum directly dedicated to saving City of Heroes. If you do not want to partake in the saving of the City, you are free to step aside and not do so. However, ragging on people who want to save the City is not helpful or warranted. We've already had this discussion at the beginning; maybe you missed it; we acknowledged that there are people who aren't willing to help save the City, for whatever reason (being a realist, being lazy, being trollish, whatever; I don't care what your reason is). At this point, you seem to be actively trying to get people to give up. While you may not think you are, this is the way you are coming across.

Please stop. I don't want to have to recommend segregating you from the community. You are a good person.

[Scott Jackson]

Haha. At least you can see the humor.

If you wish to contribute to an effort which does not require NCSoft's cooperation, then check out the "City Sunset" forum section, which discusses Plan Z.  Given your take on the situation, you may find it more interesting than a debate in this thread.

[Victoria Victrix]

Larry Dixon: The REAL takeaway from this is "Hey this is starting to hurt, stop it guys!"
Larry Dixon: If the revival efforts meant nothing, NCsoft would not post what amounts to "Elvis has left the building."  And that is all that is. They want the negative attention to stop.
Larry Dixon: That is an official attempt at deflection.
Larry Dixon: Or, in political terms, an "Un-Answer."
Larry Dixon: It appears to be a response but actually accomplishes nothing except silence those who weren't very into it.  Like I say, what it says is irrelevant; the thing to take notice of is that it was put there at all.
Larry Dixon: And that means time to step it up because the other fighter just staggered.

[Victoria Victrix]

Larry Dixon: If the "Save CoH/We love Paragon" etc. efforts were ineffective, we'd never have seen such a statement. The hidden meaning of that note is that it has dawned on somebody that this is developing into "anti-NCsoft," not "Save-CoH," so they issued a mollifying statement with a lot of buttonpushing feel-warm cozy buttons about how special what they just murdered was to them.

Now they reap the mistrust they sowed, they can see the coverage increase, the caution against them and the players taking their money away in droves, and we can look them steely in the eyes and reply "Too bad.  It's just business.  Isn't it."

[dwturducken]

As someone who has been the smartest guy in the room and the dumbest, sometimes at the same time, I would like to just say that no opinion is invalid.  Maybe it's the biggest, loudest, most buffoonish dissenter (no, Snow Globe, I don't think you're any of those things; we've seen much more like that than you can possibly muster this past month) who gives us the idea that works.  That's both the beauty and the weakness of the committee.

[Atlantea]

We're no longer just fighting for ourselves. We're fighting for them. We're fighting for the memory of the other MMOs that faded into silence and died with a whimper.

It's as TonyV put it. We're heroes. This is what we do.

8 years. 8 years we've been protecting our city. Did they really think they could just pull the plug on this without us reacting? We've survived every single 'big' release that's come about and held a relatively stable playerbase throughout. We've some of the strongest roleplayers, number crunchers and artistic types around. The community is that varied. And for that I am proud of it.

Yes, I am listening to I Am The Doctor.

I was also listening to Overtaken from the One Piece OST.

Why? Because this is music that seems to embody the element of survival. No, not survival.

Defiance.

This is our city. Come take it.

Hello. We're the Heroes.

Basically...

RUN.

[dwturducken]

So, once again, I have posted immediately after VV, this time after cautioning everyone to wait for what she had to say.

<facepalm>

Sorry.

[Terwyn]

Larry Dixon: If the "Save CoH/We love Paragon" etc. efforts were ineffective, we'd never have seen such a statement. The hidden meaning of that note is that it has dawned on somebody that this is developing into "anti-NCsoft," not "Save-CoH," so they issued a mollifying statement with a lot of buttonpushing feel-warm cozy buttons about how special what they just murdered was to them.

In other words, they are attempting a Muhammed Ali-style response. Attempting to outlast us in terms of the endurance front. Their mistake, considering that to do this involves putting themselves in an apparently losing position in attempt to go on the offensive when one's opponent is tired out. It has, of course, been pointed out that we as a community have not yet gathered our full momentum. I dare say that we've yet to get out of first gear.

The statement they have put out will more than likely end up backfiring, due to some obvious questions - if it was so special, why was it murdered?

Larry Dixon: The REAL takeaway from this is "Hey this is starting to hurt, stop it guys!"
Larry Dixon: If the revival efforts meant nothing, NCsoft would not post what amounts to "Elvis has left the building."  And that is all that is. They want the negative attention to stop.
Larry Dixon: That is an official attempt at deflection.
Larry Dixon: Or, in political terms, an "Un-Answer."
Larry Dixon: It appears to be a response but actually accomplishes nothing except silence those who weren't very into it.  Like I say, what it says is irrelevant; the thing to take notice of is that it was put there at all.
Larry Dixon: And that means time to step it up because the other fighter just staggered.

*Breaks out the boxing tape* ^_^ (As mentioned elsewhere, this is my "Impending Chaos/Let the Games Begin" face).

The best part of this is that we really haven't been targeting our blows, so much as just keeping them at a constant rhythm. I believe that the time is approaching to start going for the knock-out.

[void hunter]

By all means, do whatever you guys fell you need to (well, within reason I would think). Please, for your own sense of well being remember that you simply can't force something away from someone who owns it. The burden of time is on the players, not the company. Once they started the process, and especially once they make the game dark, time is no longer a factor to them. They can shelve the whole game and every piece of hardware associated with it indefinitely. You have no control over them.

You do however have control over whether or not you give them any more money and whether or not you live with a void where the game used to fill or if you make it whole with something else or a suitable alternative. This is where you have power.

[dwturducken]

I have tolerated your antics long enough! <pops void on the head with a giant cartoon hammer>

Actually, the void plug is the City Sunset forum.  This is just the usual emotional release before we get back to working our way through the alphabet.

[JaguarX]

By all means, do whatever you guys fell you need to (well, within reason I would think). Please, for your own sense of well being remember that you simply can't force something away from someone who owns it. The burden of time is on the players, not the company. Once they started the process, and especially once they make the game dark, time is no longer a factor to them. They can shelve the whole game and every piece of hardware associated with it indefinitely. You have no control over them.

You do however have control over whether or not you give them any more money and whether or not you live with a void where the game used to fill or if you make it whole with something else or a suitable alternative. This is where you have power.

I agree.


But at the same time, I've been having trouble following what is going on. Well 90% have to do with I came in the middle of the full swing of things but I prefer to approach things in a more chess like manner than straight brute strength in these situations.

The way I see it, NCSoft made their move today. Now what chess piece are we going to move?

Remember in the game of chess the point of the game is never to force the opponent (using that term losely here as an opponent in chess can be a friend, rival, random person,  or polka dot unicorn) to take back a move but to make moves and leave it to them to regret making said move. Sometimes they may move the piece back to it's prior spot or sometimes they make another move but in the end, spot the mistakes and make it an advantage until checkmate. In simple terms of course, trying to keep it short.