Very mature people. I disapprove what NCSoft did to us but I'm not willing to take it out on another studio's product simply because they too are part of NCSoft.
Very mature people. I disapprove what NCSoft did to us but I'm not willing to take it out on another studio's product simply because they too are part of NCSoft.
Very mature people. I disapprove what NCSoft did to us but I'm not willing to take it out on another studio's product simply because they too are part of NCSoft.
Yea, very mature... how dare anyone attempt to communicate NCSoft's track record to future customers of said company! That's just childish... :o
There were a few that looked like the praise was a little too "formula," but a couple of the really long, categorized ones look like the kind of thing you'd see from one of those guys who shows up every Thursday at the game store to play Warhammer, regardless of interest, weather, or if the store is even open. :)LOL! *thumbs-up*
LOL! *thumbs-up*
Now, I have no issues with bringing up NCSoft and their crappy track-record, but honestly, Amazon reviews are intended to be reviews of the product itself. A lot of people violate that by sometimes posting a bad review and then talking about their bad 3rd party seller experience, and that's not what that's for.
As such, I don't think I can participate in the "voting-up" of reviews that focus on NCSoft and not the product itself.
Especially when talking about an online game which will require you to have a continuing relationship with the publisher, I think that the publisher and their business practices are part and parcel of the product. You can't have one without the other, so including legitimate information about one in a review of the other should be perfectly valid.
Especially when talking about an online game which will require you to have a continuing relationship with the publisher, I think that the publisher and their business practices are part and parcel of the product. You can't have one without the other, so including legitimate information about one in a review of the other should be perfectly valid.
Personally, I am of the opinion that you can't serve two masters.
Can you be pro-GW2 and anti-NCSoft? It's possible, I guess. You may have already bought the game when the announcement came out about the CoH closure. However, if I were one of those folks, I'd be far less inclined to spend time developing my characters knowing there's nothing to stop NCSoft from pulling the plug on that game as well. "Those who ignore history are destined to repeat it." (I think Marcus Aurelius gets credit for that quote.) The up-vote of product opinions that reveal to a potential buyer the truth about NCSoft is not a morally questionable action. It's a moral imperative to those who feel that they would have wanted to know this information before they bought GW2.
Myself, I would want to know this information before I bought GW2, so I have no qualms whatsoever about finding the review "helpful". Quite the contrary. To use the aforementioned goat/rope analogy, I'm very concerned about any rope that holds my goat.
Have a nice day.
Personally, I am of the opinion that you can't serve two masters.
Can you be pro-GW2 and anti-NCSoft? It's possible, I guess. You may have already bought the game when the announcement came out about the CoH closure. However, if I were one of those folks, I'd be far less inclined to spend time developing my characters knowing there's nothing to stop NCSoft from pulling the plug on that game as well. "Those who ignore history are destined to repeat it." (I think Marcus Aurelius gets credit for that quote.) The up-vote of product opinions that reveal to a potential buyer the truth about NCSoft is not a morally questionable action. It's a moral imperative to those who feel that they would have wanted to know this information before they bought GW2.
Myself, I would want to know this information before I bought GW2, so I have no qualms whatsoever about finding the review "helpful". Quite the contrary. To use the aforementioned goat/rope analogy, I'm very concerned about any rope that holds my goat.
Have a nice day.
But for me, no animosity as I have a policy to read every EULA, every privacy statement, every information I can find about a company before partaking the risks.
Information about past company practices is often found in EULAs and privacy statements? Interesting. I've never seen that. So we should buy electronic media, carefully scrutinize these things and only then render judgement? This seems like a huge waste of money to me.
Ok, nothing to see here, warning other gamers about how NCSoft behaves is the WRONG thing to do, its childish and we should never, ever do it because all opinions should be based on the playability of the game alone, or whatever.
I hereby throw my hands into the air.
Jaguar, as usual you are extrapolating this somewhere out past Jupiter. No one, least of all me is suggesting standing around at gas stations and movie theaters talking about NCStupid. And upvoting people discussing GW2/NCSoft honestly on Amazon is not "heckling."
Jeez LOUISE. Nothing to see here.
Btw. most of the people I know already stopped playing GW 2. It's a grindfest as far I heard O.o
Very mature people. I disapprove what NCSoft did to us but I'm not willing to take it out on another studio's product simply because they too are part of NCSoft.
Electric-Knight, I can see where you're coming from on your previous post. I have to ask whether this is fully legal for either party to massively upvote or downvote comments. It's certainly dishonest on the corporation's part. In the event it isn't legal, well... I find it idiotic that a business can get away with so much more than private individuals, purely because of their deeper pocketbooks and the spreading of accountability away from the individuals making up that organization.
While true any online game or service that provide player matching or even the dread DRM through online servers all can go poof one day, sometimes out of the blue but often with some limited warning. We got 90 days. Now that may not seem a lot of time for someone who played (and payed) for 8 years but it shouldn't have been a surprise that MMOs can be shutdown and your characters can end up in the great bit bucket in the sky. EA does it all the time with their older sports titles. SOE did it with SWG and Matrix. After 8 years we had became blind to the possibility/eventuality.
Tim, that is a very good point.
But at the same times, those that are doing the warning must have pretty thick skin and not take it personally when someone do not believe them and also get the information across without coming across as a lunatic. It's like going to a store and there is a dude outside saying that particular store is a rip off and you shouldn't buy there. Many will shake their head and go in anyways, some will probably tell him to shut the hell up, some may stop and listen but still go in, some will turn around and go somewhere else, and some might just ignore him like he isnt even there, and some will ask for more information and inquire about it. Now lets say, this guy is at every store every gas station, every movie theater talking about the same store from before and how it's a rip off, would the reaction different even though he has a noble cause in preventing people from facing the same fate as him? Probably similar. Now suppose he start heckling the people that decide to go in anyways and calling them Big chain store puppets and other names? How would the reaction and perception change even though the goal and the cause is still noble? The perception probably will be very different and less people will probably even bother listening to what he has to say even though he may be on to something. Food for thought.
I'm sure there was reason other than "whim."
That we have not been told something more understandable and reasonable than we have indicates that the real reason is something that would anger us even more than mere "whim."
It's not impossible, but the reason they never told us the details may be entirely unrelated to how they think the playerbase would react. Off the top of my head they would include legal issues, they may have wanted an influx of cash or it could be what I have witnessed myself a few times while working for various corporations - an office politics coming into play.
Okay, come to think of it that last reason would be pretty embarassing and warrant a tight-lip policy.
There are any number of compliance or contractual issues that can cause a corporation to clam up. This situation stinks of that, and it's likely that whatever it is they'll never feel safe to admit to it in any detail.I don't know about anybody else, but that would make me madder than "mere whim."
If they are behaving rationally then this was not a decision born of purely business concerns but more likely business concerns distorted by a perverse legal or regulatory issue.
(come to think of it, NCsoft once saved CoH, when Cryptic left for greener pastures)
There are any number of compliance or contractual issues that can cause a corporation to clam up. This situation stinks of that, and it's likely that whatever it is they'll never feel safe to admit to it in any detail.
If they are behaving rationally then this was not a decision born of purely business concerns but more likely business concerns distorted by a perverse legal or regulatory issue.
Well one thing I heard is that NCsoft is particularly paranoid about everything ever since the Tabula Rasa mess. Richard Garriott's lawsuit, from their perspective, came from literally nowhere and without precedence. Metaphorically, after stepping on a landmine like that, they probably get nervous just taking a walk across the lawn now.
That's just a way of telling the story. Cryptic never threatened to cancel City of Heroes, but they did take resources away from it. Had Cryptic faced the opportunity or obligation to keep CoH themselves, it would likely just have seen slowdown in issue release, not unlike what Champions is going through (their dev cycles are sloooow and not very content rich) but it would not see it would have faced cancelation.
One important thing to note about Champions?
This isn't new.
I was in the Closed and Open beta for Champions. Do you know what developers were already being stolen for? STO. Anyone who expected CO to develop past launch to any consistent degree wasn't paying attention, or was just really really hopeful.
In other words, CO was practically abandoned before it even launched. And yet, ironically, it's still going.
I'm sure there was reason other than "whim."Well my feeling is because it wouldn't/didn't test well in Asia, their primary market. If you are going to cut back on R&D (which is really what a game studio is from a MBA perspective) spending, they it's only sound to spend it developing products for your primary market. And when push comes to shove it appears that the Asia marketplace enjoy swords, magic, cute tiny people and PvP style fantasy games rather than one set in a modern environment with spandex clad heroes. So you spend your limited R&D money developing similar style games that have shown to do well in Asia.
That we have not been told something more understandable and reasonable than we have indicates that the real reason is something that would anger us even more than mere "whim."
Not necessarily. NCsoft may have decided they are not going to fight for City of Heroes (8 year old game, changes in business strategy, realignment of western markets ahead, etc.). In such case they wouldn't bother with digging through documents.
GW2 is happy to drop their pay-us-for-keys chests (you can win keys in game too, its just rare as heck) but CO drops them as a majority of your drops!So far the few chests I've open in GW2 with free keys hadn't had anything worth the 115 silver (roughly $1.15) it would cost to buy a bundle of keys in the first place. I got like 8 chests sitting in my bank and their market value is roughly 2 bronze a piece. So I think in the long run most players have already figured out it really isn't worth spending any gems/converting gold to gems/spending real cash for gems just to buy keys in GW2.
A business that closes doors at the first sight of litigation without at minimum first doing proper investigations to see where they stand would not be in business long, given lawsuit threats are something that come up at least once every couple of months to any company that is successful enough.
Not only that: closing down a studio would be heavily unlikely to deter a lawsuit over a game that was in the market for 8 years, unless said lawsuit was only demanding for immediate surrendering of the IP.
We have a higher chance of the sun going supernova tomorrow than they not facing whatever legal matter you assume could show up in the last 5 years of the game.
That's a lot of assumptions.
I am making no assumptions there. An assumption is "an unmentioned lawsuit threatened them to close overnight"
Large enough companies being under heat of a potential lawsuit every few months is not an assumption. It's corporate America. Lawsuits constantly lure from plenty of directions, from patent lawsuits, to copyright claims, to the janitor breaking a leg.
Again: the chances of an IP related lawsuit not coming up in 8 years, but being serious enough to force a shutdown are next to none.
So far the few chests I've open in GW2 with free keys hadn't had anything worth the 115 silver (roughly $1.15) it would cost to buy a bundle of keys in the first place. I got like 8 chests sitting in my bank and their market value is roughly 2 bronze a piece. So I think in the long run most players have already figured out it really isn't worth spending any gems/converting gold to gems/spending real cash for gems just to buy keys in GW2.
Yeah, that's the important part. In corporate America. In other parts of the world it looks much different. For example in all my years working for a few corporations operating mainly in EU, none of them was sued. Even once. So when a group of angry lawyers pops at your door ready to draw your blood, you have the right to feel a little bit stressed. NCsoft knows that being dragged to court can hurt a lot, too.
I pointed out that NCsoft may not have wished to fight for CoH in case some legal issues surfaced, not that they did.
But more importantly it all comes from the notion that we don't know jack - neither you nor I - about the real motive behind the closure of CoH and Paragon Studios. We can argue all we like - unless an NCsoft employee joins in and says "guys, the reasons were..." - it would be an exercise in futility.
GW2 is happy to drop their pay-us-for-keys chests (you can win keys in game too, its just rare as heck) but CO drops them as a majority of your drops! After having some pretty bad ongoing glitches that make some of the game a mess, CO releases... hover tanks! Which may be the ugliest thing I've ever seen.
Well my feeling is because it wouldn't/didn't test well in Asia, their primary market. If you are going to cut back on R&D (which is really what a game studio is from a MBA perspective) spending, they it's only sound to spend it developing products for your primary market. And when push comes to shove it appears that the Asia marketplace enjoy swords, magic, cute tiny people and PvP style fantasy games rather than one set in a modern environment with spandex clad heroes. So you spend your limited R&D money developing similar style games that have shown to do well in Asia.
If NCSoft came out and said they closed Paragon and therefore CoH because Paragon repeatedly didn't show them an MMO idea that could "play in Peoria" (or whatever city in Korea that's analogous to Peoria), I don't believe people's opinion of NCSoft would be any different than it is today.
.. it shouldn't have been a surprise that MMOs can be shutdown and your characters can end up in the great bit bucket in the sky...
My point is: that is as likely as them closing the studio in fear of a metheorite hitting the buildilng and being forced to pay metheorite insurance to the families.
We actually know a bit.
We know it had nothing to do with profits, for one. CoH was bringing in more money than GW1 (shocking given CoH was mainly a US-only game).
We also know it had nothing to do with Cryptic and legal action from that side.
We also know until the last day they were still had job postings that got approved by NCSoft.
We know they were working on an additional title and also that they keep other studios running in pure development mode (so CoH could have been canceled without closing Paragon Studios.)
We know enough to at least discard lawsuits, is my point. Also to discard any economic woes. That does not leave much in the table (as far as valid reasons go.)
Electric-Knight, I can see where you're coming from on your previous post. I have to ask whether this is fully legal for either party to massively upvote or downvote comments. It's certainly dishonest on the corporation's part. In the event it isn't legal, well... I find it idiotic that a business can get away with so much more than private individuals, purely because of their deeper pocketbooks and the spreading of accountability away from the individuals making up that organization.
it sounds dishonest... it is, in my opinion, but that fits rather well for companies trying to sell you something. Look at the millions spent paying celebrities to endorse products they never tried... or paying actors to stage fake testimonials in ads... or exaggerated, carefully-worded claims of their effectiveness. Companies have gone far as to make fake 'independent foundations' to issue awards to their products. Entire industries that focus on "online reputation management" will upvote your product and downvote your competitors. Have you ever noticed the hundreds of "consumer reviews" of products start appearing long before the product even SHIPS? Heck, in the gaming industry, many have pointed out the dilemma of the gaming magazine that reviews products when they rely on the ad revenue of said products to stay afloat.
There are few national laws in the US about what a huckster can say about most products (an item's medicinal or nutritional value... if it falls under FDA purview... is a good example of the exception to the rule).
I'm not encouraging anyone to approve lies here, and the OP hasn't either. I don't want to promote lies with lies. We're saying to look at the reviews that put the spotlight on NCSoft's bad practices and rate them as helpful. Bring those honest statements to light. If a reviewer says glowing things about the parts of the game that you also approve, by all means, vote your conscience on them as well... but don't forget about the parts those reviewers missed- the publisher's quality of service. Remember how important those parts are in delivering a game, and uptick the reviewers that remind us of that, too.
How do we know that? This is a genuine question. I'm not trying to be snarky.
Oh and the CoH profits: what we have heard from Paragon management is that the whole studio was profitable enough to cover both, CoH and Secret Project's development.
We actually know a bit.
We know it had nothing to do with profits, for one. CoH was bringing in more money than GW1 (shocking given CoH was mainly a US-only game).
We also know it had nothing to do with Cryptic and legal action from that side.
We also know until the last day they were still had job postings that got approved by NCSoft.
We know they were working on an additional title and also that they keep other studios running in pure development mode (so CoH could have been canceled without closing Paragon Studios.)
Welp, apparently it wasn't profitable enough.
Welp, apparently it wasn't profitable enough.
These posts really aren't helpful.
I don't know why people still continue to say this. I can tell you that I have multiple sources that have repeatedly and emphatically said that this is not true, and several members of Paragon Studios management have said it publicly. The amount of money that City of Heroes was making, practically speaking, was not an issue.
Please don't counter with the old "Yeah, but if it was making $10 million a day..." facetious argument, that's why I said "practically speaking." City of Heroes was doing very well. It wasn't a gushing oil well of cash, but it was consistently meeting or exceeding market and internal expectations for revenue.
Plus, NCsoft has in the past come right out and said that games they've killed weren't making enough money. That was not the case here; NCsoft has never complained about the amount of money City of Heroes making. In the shutdown announcement, they specifically mentioned that the game no longer fit in the long term goals of the company. Financial concerns have never been on the table, and that's not by accident.
So seriously, unless you honestly believe that there was some grand conspiracy afoot to hide how lousy Paragon Studios was doing, given what Paragon Studios management has said publicly, what NCsoft has deliberately not said, and (though you don't have the benefit of this) having had conversations directly with people who would know this from firsthand information, "City of Heroes wasn't profitable enough" is way off, an unequivocally false statement. If you choose to believe it then fine, but I just want to make sure that it's well-known that there is zero evidence that City of Heroes was performing poorly, countered by much evidence to the contrary.
coforciea: On balance, I think I still had more fun playing City of Heroes, but to beat on Guild Wars 2 and claim it is some Korean grindfest is a disservice to all of the developers in Washington who built it. They didn't close your game down.
Some of us ended up deciding that the scale of Guild Wars 2 made it likely to be safe for a long time from the headsman's axe of NCSoft and haven't found anything else to fill the gap left by CoH. You're pushing ever so slightly in the direction of getting us kicked out of another home.
I think you may have misunderstood my intentions behind that sentence. I am not arguing that the closure of Paragon Studios was okay and that we should be fine with that. It related to a discussion whether economical reasons could or could not be behind the situation. Sorry, not trying to crush anyone's spirit.
Please, calm down. What you said is true and I didn't at any point argue over that. But apparently that one sentence I posted draws attention like a shining disco ball, while the context is lost. So let me explain: I know Paragon was making money. There was profit and they had no reason to expect the closure. But in the eyes of NCsoft management this profit wasn't a good enough reason to withhold the execution. Which is true, because that's what happened. No conspiracy theory here.
I hope if I state it like that it would be a little bit less inflammable.
Kinda what I was trying to say all along.
Not what you were actually saying, though. You kept saying that maybe, management considered the game not worth sustaining because although profitable, it was just meh.
I wasn't trying to start a flame war, but I can understand how it could be seen that way. I will try to be more sensitive.No ire coming from me at all (nor do I think anyone was excited or anything by what you said before) and I'll say that I appreciate your response about this. ;)
Never said the game was meh.
Just as an FYI.
NCSoft has been reported to the FBI for suspicion of money laundering through its in-store games. Said suspicion was verified on the Korean side by the reporter from the Korean Times.
Will anything come of this? I don't know.
I do know that suddenly deleting customer accounts for CoH as soon as the game was officially shut down, and suddenly announcing the creation of a holding company for western interests, doesn't do anything to alleviate suspicion.
Source is myself. I got some inside information on how the store actually worked, which made it blindingly clear that it was trivial to use it for money laundering, with no way for the operators of individual games to be aware of the fact. I posited this as possible to a law expert who said it was reportable. I asked the Korean Times reporter if there had been any suspicion of this in Korea, and he corroborated my suspicion, said other game companies had been caught doing the same thing, said that NCSoft had been suspected of this (and bribing officials) for some time but no proof had turned up yet. After consulting with Rae, she agreed it was justified and she arranged to notify the FBI, since she is a journalist and would likely be taken more seriously than some pinheaded fantasy writer.
Source is myself. I got some inside information on how the store actually worked, which made it blindingly clear that it was trivial to use it for money laundering, with no way for the operators of individual games to be aware of the fact. I posited this as possible to a law expert who said it was reportable. I asked the Korean Times reporter if there had been any suspicion of this in Korea, and he corroborated my suspicion, said other game companies had been caught doing the same thing, said that NCSoft had been suspected of this (and bribing officials) for some time but no proof had turned up yet. After consulting with Rae, she agreed it was justified and she arranged to notify the FBI, since she is a journalist and would likely be taken more seriously than some pinheaded fantasy writer.
The reporter for the Korean times told me it was likely it was happening.
Money laundering is illegal.
By knowing how the store works, it becomes obvious that it is trivial to launder money through the NCSoft stores.
Here is how money laundering would take place.
Real money, for the purposes of this explanation, will be called "money." The ingame currency bought with real money, for the purposes of this explanation, will be called "points," although each NCSoft game has a different name for it.
F2P account is created. F2P account buys, with money, a large number of points, with a prepaid debit card. At this point only the store knows what account the points were purchased by and what game they were purchased in.
Store passes NCSoft its share. At this point, only the store knows what game the points were purchased in, although NCSoft knows what account they were purchased by.
F2P account is canceled.
Points are canceled without refund, leaving no record of what game they were purchased in.
Account is canceled and cleared by NCSoft (as we saw when accounts were canceled during the shutdown) leaving no record of what was purchased in the in-game store.
NCSoft and the store now have the money, with no record of where it came from or from whom.
Money is now laundered. The game in which the points were purchased has gotten no credit for the purchase.
OK... call me naive or ignorant, but other than forgery or drug traffic... what kind of illegal money would they pursue to launder?
Also... I did see something along the line you just listed... I'm a DBA... i been working in this field for quite a long time. In public companies, it has always been my understanding, that every single bit of information has to be retained for at least 7 years. If they were deleting transaction data along with accounts... that would be troublesome even if there was no laundering involved!
Money laundering is also one of those things treated very, very seriously.
So, fingers crossed this somehow benefits us.
Also, I have resisted making a "There's a bear with you?" pun this entire thread, and I couldn't hold it back any longer.
As long as nc doesn't sinks and takes everything to it's death.NCSoft going in to receivership is probably the best chance for the IP to be sold.
Cleverness would be to sell the IPs they have in the backyard and safe the money for a company relaunch after the whole affair ;)
If they are honest, they'll open their books and their back-records and nothing will come of this. I happened to ask about it because I remember Dark Watcher having to work on the third-party store, swearing at it because he had to jam it in sideways, and wondering why they just couldn't do things the OLD way, where you bought all those things directly from NCSoft. And I started to wonder--especially since NCSoft was so quick to clear out all of our accounts after shutdown--why would you break the game in order to do something you were already doing without breaking the game?
Im confused... was there an internal store capability set for CoH before it went F2P?
The store was not in the game itself. You bought your items--things like the Mutant Pack, the Magic Pack, that sort of thing--via the NCSoft store via your NCSoft account. The upgrade was automatically applied as soon as you logged into your account.
There was an in-game store as well, that you could buy things like character slots from. It worked a lot like the NCSoft web store, though (and may have very well just been a front end for it), where you just bought the item you wanted for $X instead of having to buy points first.
I'll be interested to see what, if anything, comes from this. Do keep us informed of what's going on, as well as if you need anything. If this is happening, aside from anything SaveCoH-related, it needs to stop.
So is there a hypothesis that Paragon was closed to cover up a money laundering scheme?
Edit: Replaced "Ricoh" with RICO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act). Hopefully the copier company had nothing to do with this. ;) --TonyV
Well...we know that Paragon was negotiating to buy itself out right up to the moment when suddenly they were closed down.
Oh, so it was this guy all along?
(https://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/ft5512/misc/Johnny_Rico_zpsfc015300.jpg)
I distinctly recall DW wondering why a third party store had to suddenly become involved, when it would have been more reasonable to link directly to your NCSoft Account.Because it's easier and quicker to hire a third party with an existing product and infrastructure that to hire the expertise to "roll your own". Same reason most companies buy someone else's game engine and modify it than spend the time to create their own from scratch.
Because it's easier and quicker to hire a third party with an existing product and infrastructure that to hire the expertise to "roll your own". Same reason most companies buy someone else's game engine and modify it than spend the time to create their own from scratch.Your argument actually makes the case against NCSoft stronger, you realize, as there was an already in place store structure.
Why didn't Cryptic/Paragon create their own physics engine?
Well...we know that Paragon was negotiating to buy itself out right up to the moment when suddenly they were closed down.Point me to an article that says that, not what you were told on the DL from "insiders".
And we know the way the store was set up was wide open to money laundering.We do? You still haven't mention how the now clean money gets funneled back to it's "owners". And your method doesn't make sense for NCSoft to clean their own dirty money (why is it dirty to begin with) through themselves (which seems incredibly stupid).
And we know that as soon as the servers were shut off, NCSoft began wiping customer accounts.Why would/should they keep them? Some of us would like our master accounts wiped as well.
We also know that almost as soon as the servers were shut off, NCSoft abruptly announced it was selling its western branch to itself in the form of a holding company, which would put another layer of obfuscation in there.Perhaps because it was also part of the larger "refocusing" plan, which included the closure of Paragon and the layoffs at NC Interactive. It's not like they would publish their restructuring plan for their competitors to see up front. After all the glassdoor site is full of posts, even before the closure of Paragon, that the management of it's western presence was burdened with a lack of local control. This may, Xenu forbid, actually be a step to allow NCSoft's western groups to dictate their own choices in marketing and customer management than simply be local language droids that can't provide cultural insight back to the mothership.
We also know that in Korea NCSoft is suspected of money laundering, although nothing has been proven.Again hearsay. A rumor from a source that told only you VV.
That's what we know.
Your argument actually makes the case against NCSoft stronger, you realize, as there was an already in place store structure.Whose? Are you talking NCoin? They can't even share them between Aion and L2. I also imagine a store infrastructure developed for the games that were simply language ported here would have an infrastructure designed by the home office and wouldn't be as easily integrated into a game that their developers back in Korea hadn't seen the codebase for. Plus we don't know how different our player database in structure to the player databases for their Korean games. A more intentionally generic solution for sale here may have been more straight forward than trying to wedge their existing store into our game, again due to database design issues.
Whose? Are you talking NCoin? They can't even share them between Aion and L2. I also imagine a store infrastructure developed for the games that were simply language ported here would have an infrastructure designed by the home office and wouldn't be as easily integrated into a game that their developers back in Korea hadn't seen the codebase for. Plus we don't know how different our player database in structure to the player databases for their Korean games. A more intentionally generic solution for sale here may have been more straight forward than trying to wedge their existing store into our game, again due to database design issues.You could purchase items for CoH before F2P is what I was referring to. That is the in-place system. Not talking NCoin, not talking anything but the pre-existing upgrade system which was in place long before the Paragon Market ever existed.
ArenaNet has their own proxy currency cards for GW2 as well as master account system (as well as forum software, no vbulletin). GW2 is not part of master account system that CoH was, Aion, L2 and GW1 are. Sounds like ArenaNet wants to make sure they can sever ties cleanly (since it's also not NCSoft that is going represent GW2 in China).
Well...we know that Paragon was negotiating to buy itself out right up to the moment when suddenly they were closed down.
Point me to an article that says that, not what you were told on the DL from "insiders".
Why would/should they keep them? Some of us would like our master accounts wiped as well.
This may, Xenu forbid, actually be a step to allow NCSoft's western groups to dictate their own choices in marketing and customer management than simply be local language droids that can't provide cultural insight back to the mothership.
Two good reasons: 1) Because any sale of the City of Heroes IP would be much more valuable with the customer database intact, and 2) for legal reasons in case they get sued for some reason, they'll have records of who's who and what's what. To be frank, having worked in a large megacorporate environment for almost 15 years, the only reason I've ever seen a company deliberately delete information is so that in court, they can say "we do not have that information" without committing perjury. Believe you me, when it comes to data retention, corporations are positively anal about it and keep everything just in case they need to use it some day--unless, again, they know that information can hurt them.
I don't think "I was just repeating a rumor I heard" would hold up as a defense in a libel case. I would hate to see VV brought up libel because our little echo box of rage simply made it too easy for someone to use us for their nefarious purposes.
Virtually anything that comes from illegal sources. That is the point of laundering money; it's usually done at the behest of organized crime. The company that is facilitating the laundering then passes it back, minus the share they get for doing the laundering, to the original source via a number of ways, including "investing" in front companies.
I distinctly recall DW wondering why a third party store had to suddenly become involved, when it would have been more reasonable to link directly to your NCSoft Account.is this me? Cuz if it is, I may just squee like a 14 year old girl who just won tickets to a Justin Bieber concert.
(okay, I guess I found something else to say!)
You could purchase items for CoH before F2P is what I was referring to. That is the in-place system. Not talking NCoin, not talking anything but the pre-existing upgrade system which was in place long before the Paragon Market ever existed.While true it's a lot different selling DLC packs that set secret global badges unlocking features than the infrastructure required for a fully functional item shop featuring thousands of items paid for with a proxy currency.
I did my duty as the law enforcement specialist (a PI) said I should do. I had everything I knew and what I suspected sent to the appropriate law enforcement authorities. If he didn't think there was something in it, he wouldn't have told me to send it to the FBI.
If people don't act at least that far on their suspicions, then few crimes outside of "caught redhanded" would ever be solved.
I'm not going to say or explain anything more when so much of what I said is either being pointed at as being crazy, lying or both.
I'm not going to say or explain anything more when so much of what I said is either being pointed at as being crazy, lying or both.I'm not suggesting you are either crazy and/or lying. I suggesting that your feelings toward NCSoft could make you vulnerable to being used by those with less honorable motives.
"I heard Mr. Johnson down the street beats his dog/wife/is a devil worshiper/porn addict/child molester/cheats on his taxes/tosses "little people"/a Russian spy/has bodies buried in the back yard."
Of course you do! You're a "Jabber=Wacky!" :)Awww :-[ Thank you so very much :)
I don't know if it's been said, but I'm glad you're one of the ones to come here from the "official forum." Your posts were always level-headed, especially toward the end. I just wish I had participated more, there.
I did my duty as the law enforcement specialist (a PI) said I should do. I had everything I knew and what I suspected sent to the appropriate law enforcement authorities. If he didn't think there was something in it, he wouldn't have told me to send it to the FBI.
I know Paragon was making money. There was profit and they had no reason to expect the closure. But in the eyes of NCsoft management this profit wasn't a good enough reason to withhold the execution. Which is true, because that's what happened. No conspiracy theory here.
I know this was pages ago and I apologize if it's already been completely addressed, I'm afraid I've come down with something, I'm getting more sick by the minute and simply can't continue reading tonight but I wanted to respond to this directly.
You don't know this. It cannot be verified by anyone here. There is no data to support this statement.
Given that NCSoft is not making any sense in it's decisions even to business analysts, there is absolutely no indication that they would have kept City of Heroes running even if it was the most profitable game on their roster.
When making statements such as this one, please stick to what you can prove or state that you are speculating.
But in the eyes of NCsoft management this profit wasn't a good enough reason to withhold the execution. Which is true, because that's what happened.
Angry gamers are scary.
You cannot state this to a factual degree. You are not privy to NCSoft board meetings and given their behaviour over the past several months, we do not know that City of Heroes would have been saved from the axe even if it represented 94% of their revenue.
If she's wrong, then law enforcement will look into it, figure that out, and everyone goes their merry way. If she's right, though, then not only may she have helped us, but helped crime victims who have nothing to do with City of Heroes (as well as put some serious egg on the face of her detractors).
So I highly advise that folks neither assume the best nor the worst at this point. It's why I posted earlier that I'll be interested to see how this turns out, not "let's go get 'em!!!" I'm not quite ready to take my pitchforks and torches to Seoul yet, but if they're up to no good, I want them to see the justice they deserve.
I know that there's no reason to trust me over anyone else in here, but if it helps:A) Who's Joe? The reporter?
1) The information sent to the FBI wasn't a finger-pointing-NC-Soft-are-totally-doing-this-arrest-them-NOW rage fest, as much as a 'this system has been set up in such a way that it could be exploited by bad people. You guys may want to take a look at it and make sure that it isn't the case' piece of information.
They might think it's worth looking at. They might not.
2) I've seen the email that Joe sent to VV confirming that there had been speculation in Korea that payment systems such as the ones used by gaming companies could be open to abuse.
I really wouldn't want anyone to think that VV worded the information she gave to me, or her conversation with Joe as 'NC SOFT are doing this!' as much as 'the payment systems used by some gaming companies could, in theory, be used illegitimately and we'd like you to make sure that it's not the case.' The email sent to the FBI was sent as a similar tone, I promise.
A) Who's Joe? The reporter?
II) This has a much softer spin than the vibe I got off of VV's posts. Hers made it seem like it was NCSoft's item stores specifically rather than a wider potential problem in the industry as well as a implied intent on how the stores handle the monies passing through them. As if they were intentionally designed with illegality in mind rather than gamed for nefarious (I seem to like that word tonight) purposes.
I'd now like to propose a big group hug, and perhaps a rousing rendition of Silent Night, which I've always found to be rather calming.
I'd now like to propose a big group hug
I never stated it would. Instead I pointed out that the profit game made did not trump the reason NCsoft had to close Paragon Studios. In their eyes, at least. There's a difference.
Exactly that on the MMOs. And nice find on the articles! :)
What I'm saying is that your statement presumes that there is some mythical number that may have saved the game.
Angry gamers are scary.
Even if there is no basis for the claims of money laundering, after this NCsoft will start seeing us as a real thorn in their side. If everything plays out just right, it will lead to them reconsider their stance on the IP. But before that... Let's brace for the impact.
What I'm saying is that your statement presumes that there is some mythical number that may have saved the game.
This is simply not true. I have never said anything like that and it was never my point. Please, do not put words in my mouth.
But in the eyes of NCsoft management this profit wasn't a good enough reason to withhold the execution.
That is besides the point.
Sweetie, NCSoft will kick you, me and every last other player in the game out of GW2 AT ANY TIME THAT SUITS THEIR FANCY. And that is why people are mad. They don't need rhyme, reason or financial incentive: if they decide to pull the plug, they will pull it even if there are negative financial consequences.
I think its a thing others need to know about.
I'm sorry; I didn't, you did.
Whether you meant to or not, your sentence implies that the profit generated by CoH actually was weighed against their decision to shut down. I'm not saying it wasn't, I'm saying we don't know. Misinterpretation is precisely why I'm saying stick to what can be verified. There's nothing wrong with speculation, just don't state it as though it is fact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOz9SpWc_yE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOz9SpWc_yE)
cfor: And I'm not saying you should get that word out, I'm just asking that people be tactful about it.
Just as an FYI.
NCSoft has been reported to the FBI for suspicion of money laundering through its in-store games. Said suspicion was verified on the Korean side by the reporter from the Korean Times.
Will anything come of this? I don't know.
I do know that suddenly deleting customer accounts for CoH as soon as the game was officially shut down, and suddenly announcing the creation of a holding company for western interests, doesn't do anything to alleviate suspicion.
I think what I'm not getting here is, what part of what I have said is not tactful?
An honest question: What has being nice gotten us so far? I will solve that statement for $1000: N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
If your bloodlust demands it, go for the kill. If you think you can bring the game back by losing yourself in a frenzy, spitting vitriol and hate on unsuspecting bystanders, being obnoxious about your pain and sense of loss, don't ask anyone for permission and just do it. Bring our game back.
I could try to repeat the mantra that by attempting this you would only hurt us - that is if you even get noticed at all and not dismissed immediately as an, um, crazy person - but apparently some things can't be explained and need to be lived through. So, good luck. This is a genuine wish. If you prove me and other more civil people wrong, all the better. I sure won't complain if it would mean I'll be able to play my favorite MMO again.
cfor: As long as we're asking that question, what does talking negatively about the gameplay of Guild Wars 2 get us?
You're welcome to hold that opinion, but responding to people concerned about manipulating the Amazon reviews for GW2 by saying that's it a crappy game and doesn't deserve good reviews anyway
Maybe Disney will come in and see how much you don't like Guild Wars 2 and that will be what convinces them to make a bid on CoH?