Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7305232 times)

Teikiatsu

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14600 on: January 29, 2015, 03:11:09 AM »
Looks like they have 6 games in America:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexon
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Void Huntress

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14601 on: January 29, 2015, 03:51:40 AM »
Looks like they have 6 games in America:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexon

My one encounter with trying to play a Nexon game: discovering that installing Vindictus also installed -- without any kind of notification that this was the case -- a plugin in firefox to permit a webpage to invoke a local executable file.

I promptly uninstalled. I will not play Nexon games now.

Waffles

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14602 on: January 29, 2015, 04:02:19 AM »
I'm impatient.

What would the maximum amount of time we would be reasonably expected to wait for a transaction like this to start coming to a head, in absence of any more really crazy pancake happening?

It's less me wanting it right now <Though, don't we all?> , and more that the longer this takes, the more paranoid I am about NCsoft just deciding to go "Ehhhh. Fuck you guys, was fun wasting your time though."

Relitner

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14603 on: January 29, 2015, 04:28:46 AM »
I work for a company who provides electronic results (for healthcare-related services) to our clients through whichever third-party EDI software that client has purchased. Typically three signatures are required to proceed with setting up the electronic interface. That said, it may take anywhere between 1 week to 3 months (usually depending upon the software vendor) ...just to collect signatures. I'm guessing this is a whole lot more complex an EDI interface.
If we don't hear something by September 2015, my guess is that we won't hear much of anything at all. Until then, I'll just keep checking up on the forums and crossing my fingers.
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Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14604 on: January 29, 2015, 04:56:37 AM »
What it all comes down to is that we all need to accept some things

1. The full reasons for the shutdown will likely never be fully revealed. More information has come out since the shutdown, but without lawyers doing a major investigation, which is unlikely, we will not know.  Maybe if a few thousand CoH fans all claim post traumatic stress.......nah.

2. People are working to get the game back as a legacy/zombie Issue 23.

3. NCSoft has been talking to these people.

4. The people have been going through the motions and jumping through the hoops as it were.  Also Korean business philosophy and method of approaching them is not the same as it is in the states.

5. Holidays slowed things down.

6. Possible changes in NCSoft management may have slowed things down.

7. They cannot tell us anything new as it would likely kill the talks, ergo NDA's.

8. All the questioning and complaining about lack of current news won't change anything if NDA's are involved.

9. All we can do is keep the hope alive by talking about the good old days, character builds, favorite characters, favorite memories of CoH, etc.

10. Sit back and try to enjoy the wait, and hope that it isn't too much longer of a wait.  Mids Hero Planner and ICON can help.

Also for me, I have recently reformatted my old XP gaming machine with Windows XP (service packs and other critical filles needed after a reformat I burned to disc long before XP was sunsetted), it is now connected to my 60inch TV and I am installing a plethora of games onto it and have a wireless keyboard and mouse ready............Now where did I place my old Duke Nukem 3D disc....
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Battlechimp

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14605 on: January 29, 2015, 05:21:56 AM »
I don't buy that at all. If Paragon Studios looked bad to investors at the time of Nexon buying the shares, Carbine's balance sheet looked a hundred times worse. ArenaNet was probably in the red as well, as GW2 was in the late stages of development but not yet released.

That is not a very valid comparison though.  A few very key things made their situations very different, even if Paragon, Arena net and Carbine were all in the red.

The first being Arena net and Carbine are not owned by NC Soft.  They are their own development studios with NCSoftas their backer and publisher. Even if NC Soft pulled out as their publisher, those studios would still exist, whereas Paragon was fully owned by them, so how they show up n the books would be a losing asset rather than a partnership that was losing money.

Another reason they were in different positions was the outlook of the games they had/going to put out.  For Arena net Guild Wars was very successful with GW2 looking to sell like gang busters.  Likewise Wildstar was also looking to be another golden egg. Regardless of how it turned out, at the time that was the outlook on those two studios.  Then look at Paragon, as much as we here love the game, it tanked in Korea.  It was mildly popular in the west but had already proved it had no legs in the Asian market.  So while all three studios were in the red at that time, two were looking to turn into gold soon while the third was not expected to go anywhere.  And whatever side projects Paragon was working on, they apperently didn't think they were good enough to turn things around.

Add into the mix both NC Soft and nexon are two Korean companies that are very focused on the asian market over the western one.  So when you have a studio that they own, that isn't making a profit and doesn't look like they will have any significant impact in the home court, that's another mark against them.

Then another thing to consider is look at what was going  on at the time of close.  There was talks going on to buy COH but because of the mentioned personality issues, the sale fell through.  So from the NCSoft side they could wait a bit for a new buyer or some how get talks restarted, but that would take time.  The merger with Nexon was going on right then. So they need to get this losing asset off their books somehow, so it would not negatively affect the deal with Nexon, and let's face it, that deal was worth a few more zeros that any deal for Paragon. So from that business stand point, they had a studio, that they owned, compared to just being their publisher, that was losing money and that they felt did not have the potential to turn that around in the forseable future, so they cut their losses and shut it down so it would not negatively affect the larger deal going on at the same time.
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Drauger9

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14606 on: January 29, 2015, 05:55:49 AM »
We can speculate all we want. As for myself, I'm hopefully starting a second job. So I'll have plenty to keep me busy until we hear a Yay or a nay.

Going over every small detail isn't going to do anything for us. The only thing we can do right now is. Stay positive and supportive of the people spear heading this project.

Thanks again to Ironwolf and the crew in talks with NCSoft.

Now back to grinding to 100 in WOW......

FloatingFatMan

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14607 on: January 29, 2015, 07:12:32 AM »
Not every company does this but some do for legal reasons. For example, home health companies require regular personal file audits because they have to show that every nurse they dispatch is fully certified to perform require procedures. Also they have to sign confidentiality statements for HIPAA, these also need to be current as the regulations and procedures change and you need to sign a form for the current version of the law.

Even a regular company should do an audit of a personnel files to make sure that they are compliant. Do you have a valid I-9, W-4? If you offer insurance and an employee declines coverage, do you a copy of him declining coverage. Do they need special licensing for particular equipment. Does your company require mandatory drug testing before hire or periodically?

Finally, when you hire someone to work for you you want them to be qualified to do the job. Vetting can be somethng as simple as checking references to indepth investigation depending on the position and the risk involved. You give them permission to do this when you sign the statement that you affirm everything you said on the application is true. It's there, just more people don't read it.

This is done to protect the company and to make sure that employees aren't asked to do something they are not certified or licensed for. You make think it is over the top, but it is a necessary part of business.

Absolutely none of which is relevant to a third party company accessing your payroll records.

When you employ nurses, it's a government regulatory body checking them, not some other company that's not even in the same country.

When you employ regular folks, it's YOU checking them, not some other company that's not even in the same country.

Joshex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14608 on: January 29, 2015, 02:10:23 PM »
I don't buy that at all. If Paragon Studios looked bad to investors at the time of Nexon buying the shares, Carbine's balance sheet looked a hundred times worse. ArenaNet was probably in the red as well, as GW2 was in the late stages of development but not yet released.

Actually I buy it, I found some things out via the city of heroes forums and having applied for a position at the time, just before the shutdown was announced.

Paragon was actively hiring people, partly because some of the main designers were leaving, and the things the newbies were doing was for a lack of better words 'new', not continuing what had been done previously. That meant a lot of work was being done by a lot of new people and they were being paid for it, yet nothing much was going to come out of it any time soon or at previous rates.

that does look bad, but it was just an unplanned hiccup, not like paragon studios could foresee some designers quitting, and not like they could shove a newbie right into a project someone else was working on.

This is why I brought up the game company marketing thread a while back, and why I suggested Contingency as the pay-out model, that way new people can be hired and they work but don't get paid till their work actually makes money. that way it doesn't look bad from stock holders perspectives.

I mean to be honest SOME of the stock-holders were there for ulterior purposes and looking for any sign of weakness in the product to lash out at, basically CoX couldn't afford a hiccup. The enemies were Anti-game-violence groupies who bought mass stock shares via group donations (through a company supporter) in attempt to find someway to kill this 'weak-financially-backed Violent Superhero MMO'. and when they saw the hiccup they threatened to pull out due to a profit decline lots of other backers who were there for money did the same, with the note to kill the low profit MMOs as the only means to keep their business and the meeting being under an NDA so they don't look bad.

I had to do some research into anti-video-game-violence groups for an essay for my masters, turns out they are linked to liberal political groups and only pick on games that won't sacrifice from game quality to include liberal ideologies in context or concept. Seeing as Paragon was all about making a cool superhero MMO they would want no part of any ideological injections into CoX other than those (super-natural ones) they had planned for plot purposes, and therefore were perceived as a threat and targeted via the anti-video-game-violence groups.

it's a really ugly practice "if they wont join you, Destroy them" versus "if you can't beat them, join them"

Edit: Fact is, it's fine for a new MMO that is still in development to have deficits, but for a game 5+ years old that game should be holding it's own without hiccups. That's how investors saw it.

ncsoft and paragon could have covered their back-sides bit better using a contingency pay-out model
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 02:18:23 PM by Joshex »
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Codewalker

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14609 on: January 29, 2015, 02:46:33 PM »
The first being Arena net and Carbine are not owned by NC Soft.  They are their own development studios with NCSoftas their backer and publisher.

Fact check before you post, please.

Carbine: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/ncsoft-unveils-carbine-studios/017482
ArenaNet: http://us.ncsoft.com/en/news/press-releases/ncsoft-acquires.php

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14610 on: January 29, 2015, 03:27:58 PM »
Then another thing to consider is look at what was going  on at the time of close.  There was talks going on to buy COH but because of the mentioned personality issues, the sale fell through.  So from the NCSoft side they could wait a bit for a new buyer or some how get talks restarted, but that would take time.  The merger with Nexon was going on right then. So they need to get this losing asset off their books somehow, so it would not negatively affect the deal with Nexon, and let's face it, that deal was worth a few more zeros that any deal for Paragon. So from that business stand point, they had a studio, that they owned, compared to just being their publisher, that was losing money and that they felt did not have the potential to turn that around in the forseable future, so they cut their losses and shut it down so it would not negatively affect the larger deal going on at the same time.

A few corrections - the Paragon Studios buyout attempt was because of the impending closure - this was before the closing announcement. The Hail Mary effort was a different attempt.

On paper PS was losing money - right before a merger with a huge multi-billion dollar company who was buying 40%+ of your stock.

The best way for NCSoft to look good was to axe PS before the merger. You see we look at a couple millions that PS and CoH was worth and ask why they closed it - they were making hundreds of millions on the merger. If having this thing devalue your company a $100 million might have been a possibility - it was a chance they were not going to take. You say look at Carbine and Arenanet - they were both properties with new games in the making - Paragon was the shepherd of a 10 year old game.

It ultimately was just business - it wasn't personal until some people took it there in the sales attempts. Even then it wasn't NCSoft who started it - they just said we will never sell the game to you. That is a lot different to - we will never sell the game. The doubt and hate of NCSoft while at first was understandable - they didn't communicate their side well at all - after looking at what was happening NCSoft was just making a deal.

Felderburg

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14611 on: January 29, 2015, 04:34:27 PM »
This is why I brought up the game company marketing thread a while back, and why I suggested Contingency as the pay-out model, that way new people can be hired and they work but don't get paid till their work actually makes money. that way it doesn't look bad from stock holders perspectives.

:X Yikes! No one would work for a company that does this. "Here, do a bunch of work, and we'll only pay you once we become profitable. In the meantime, pay for your rent and food with your savings that you clearly have, since you were looking for a job..."

What if the company never becomes profitable? "You worked for us for 24 weeks, 40 hours a week, so we owe you... 960 hours of pay. Unfortunately, we are now bankrupt, so you get... 5 hours of pay. Hope the last 6 months was worth the real-world experience you get to put on a resume!"

How do you define "their work making money?" "Oh, sorry, only 10 people bought the costume you designed in the shop, so you get.... $10! Way to go, worker! I know, you spent hours making it, but worker 2 over there spent half as much time for an item that sold like hotcakes, so he'll be making bank this week."
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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14612 on: January 29, 2015, 05:22:07 PM »
Really people, I think we're all kinda missing the point here. The past is the past, and I just want the game I was using as ersatz therapy back.

If that means praising NCSoft and sending them cakes and flowers, then so be it. If that means swimming to Korea and throwing rocks, then so be it. At the moment the first one seems most likely to get the city back... but you're damned right if the deal goes south that I'll be right back on the boycott bandwagon.
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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14613 on: January 29, 2015, 05:35:00 PM »
On paper PS was losing money - right before a merger with a huge multi-billion dollar company who was buying 40%+ of your stock.
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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14614 on: January 29, 2015, 06:24:24 PM »
If the business-process-delicate Koreans who own it read this, keep in mind you took our money for 8 years, during which we developed hobbies -- not just crafting characters, but giant superbases as well.

My several bases were each as least as complicated, and had as many hours invested in, as my good old dad's mountainous train set in the basement.

To just shut down this, well, imagine Minecraft closing up shop, taking with it every instance, official server or private.

"Normal business" does not apply here.  If nothing else, you should have sold it off to someone else.  Several companies have a business model of old mmos on much slower development paces.

And as a note to the wider MMORPG community for the future, perhaps someone can develop some kind of "guarantee", like the slips of paper in small appliances you buy.

"We guarantee this mmo, if it folds, be sold off to a company that keeps these running, including the character/customer/guild base databases, i.e. no reboot sale where this is wiped."

Then let the presence, or absence, of that guarantee be one factor in customers deciding to buy.

Wammo

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14615 on: January 29, 2015, 06:59:59 PM »
Well I have been away for a while...doesn't look like it has been long enough to fire up the game yet. I so long for the day...will it be in 2015...

darkgob

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14616 on: January 29, 2015, 08:08:33 PM »
And as a note to the wider MMORPG community for the future, perhaps someone can develop some kind of "guarantee", like the slips of paper in small appliances you buy.

"We guarantee this mmo, if it folds, be sold off to a company that keeps these running, including the character/customer/guild base databases, i.e. no reboot sale where this is wiped."

Then let the presence, or absence, of that guarantee be one factor in customers deciding to buy.

That guarantee only means anything based on the assumption that anyone WANTS to buy it.  No business could or would ever guarantee that.

Everything ends eventually.  Even if (when!) CoH comes back and gets revived as v1.5, even if a true sequel follows that, eventually it will end.  Also -- and I hate to be the bearer of bad news -- you and the rest of us will all die some day.

Mistress Urd

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14617 on: January 29, 2015, 08:43:57 PM »
I'm impatient.

What would the maximum amount of time we would be reasonably expected to wait for a transaction like this to start coming to a head, in absence of any more really crazy pancake happening?

It's less me wanting it right now <Though, don't we all?> , and more that the longer this takes, the more paranoid I am about NCsoft just deciding to go "Ehhhh. pancake you guys, was fun wasting your time though."

There are really 3 possible answers;
1. Yes
2. No
3. Silence

#3 of course is the worst one. When I get a rude tell in CoH I would not answer it ever. Sadly waffles, this sort of deal operates at the speed of business which is months maybe even a year. Its still light years faster than the speed of government. If you really liked CoH, you'll likely play it when it comes back.

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14618 on: January 29, 2015, 09:21:09 PM »
Everything ends eventually.  Even if (when!) CoH comes back and gets revived as v1.5, even if a true sequel follows that, eventually it will end.  Also -- and I hate to be the bearer of bad news -- you and the rest of us will all die some day.

I prefer to rage against the dying of the light than fatalistic acceptance.
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Felderburg

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #14619 on: January 29, 2015, 09:39:58 PM »
I prefer to rage against the dying of the light than fatalistic acceptance.

Acceptance need not be fatalistic.
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