Author Topic: G.A.M.E.  (Read 6081 times)

Knight Light

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G.A.M.E.
« on: February 03, 2013, 03:13:56 PM »
I'm tired of the sick, played out line "It's just business".

Corporations aren't ever going to do anything about it and I don't see the Better Business Bureau as really having any power, so it's left to the consumers.

I was endeavouring in my most favourite activity since December the first, 2012; loathing NCSoft with the fury and intensity of a thousand exploding suns, when a thought began to form.

It first said to me "Wouldn't it be nice if there were some governments recognized global association of agents whose mandates were to propagate knowledge and awareness of reliable media products and companies who listen to their customers as well as hold legally responsible companies that fail to live up to basic consensual expectations of the public, all while being held to the requirement of maintaining a highly ethical code of honour as well as a sense of humour and behaving in such a manner as to earn the titles of gentleman and lady."

My favourite definition of a gentleman or a lady has for a very long time been; "Someone who ensures that those around them are as comfortable as possible."

To me, this definition includes providing quality entertainment.

An association built upon these principles might be just the thing the world needs right now.

Gamers exist in every society on earth. In every corner of the globe they play something. Some of us have it more rough than others but it's a safe bet, somewhere, somehow, someone is trying to amuse themselves, if only for a moment. Ours is a population that exists without borders.

The mission of these agents would be to spread factual information on and support products and companies that make a gamer's life more enjoyable by whatever their means allows, whether it's as big as purchasing a copy or item of every product they make or something as small as relating to someone:

"oh, say Bob, y'know I'm not really into first person shooters or real time strategy games or simulation games, or this particular show, or this particular movie, or this particular soundtrack, or they aren't within my budget this month, etc, but you know who did a thing or two right, so-and-so, and they got some good folks down at their studio/factory/offices who know how to treat people right. If you could send a few bucks their way, I know they'd appreciate it in the form of a quality product and quality support for it."

I'm not a man of means and the bulk of my time right now needs to be dedicated to finding a new job thanks to a business decision in a different industry, but I was just thinking it would be really nice if  we could become and embodiment to which the governments of the world would state "We formally recognize your right to say "That sucks!" and will collectively assist you in seeking out some form of genuine justice." Perhaps it's the only way to get back home to Paragon City. Or it could just be a foolish idea. In either case, it's not something I could accomplish if I worked at it alone. Like all ideas, its strength is measured only by how much thought is given to it.

*Remembers how the world actually works right now and runs off with his tinfoil hat*

Pending approval of the people
Chairman of the Global Alliance of Media Enthusiasts,
Francisco Lucio Fernandez Cabrales

=oP

Aggelakis

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 07:47:45 PM »
...good luck with that. :o
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Taceus Jiwede

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 09:17:22 PM »
A very honorable idea.  It is sad, unfortuantly these company's haven't done anything illegal.  Which is why BBB and others can't do anything, they may of done things that are wrong, but not illegal.  Its a sad state of the world and the gaming industry when legal/illegal have nothing to do with right/wrong.  I would love to see a organization like this, it probably won't happen because of the lack of compassion and the overwhelming amount of greed involved with gaming companies these days.  With the exception of Valve I doubt many would be on board.  You could always "Tyrant" style it but then you become as bad as the companies you are looking to improve.  Plus a lot of gamers these days aren't true gamers I have noticed (not to insult anyone) but I personally know handfuls of people who play Call of Duty 6-8 hours a day and then turn around and start insulting people who play RPG's, MMO's, Puzzle games ETC.  Because they only feel their game is important, I have literally been told that "Call of Duty is the best and most challenging online game ever made"  which is a stretch from the truth at best.  Recently when I was playing Far Cry 3 (Great game BTW if anyone is curious) I was having a friend watch me, this friend was a huge fan of facebook games and he spends all day playing them.  He then tells me "You just wasted 2 hours playing that game when we could of been doing something else."  Games have become so casual, which isn't always a bad thing, these days it gives people who use to think gamers were "nerds" (Nerd pride!!!!!!) the ability to play games without feeling like a nerd (Nerd pride!!!!!)  I bring it up because you would need gamers to support this, and most gamers these days are one game pony's or are in denial that they are a gamer at all.  But Knight Light you have my support all the way!!!!!

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2013, 11:40:41 PM »
A very honorable idea.  It is sad, unfortuantly these company's haven't done anything illegal.  Which is why BBB and others can't do anything, they may of done things that are wrong, but not illegal.  Its a sad state of the world and the gaming industry when legal/illegal have nothing to do with right/wrong.  I would love to see a organization like this, it probably won't happen because of the lack of compassion and the overwhelming amount of greed involved with gaming companies these days.  With the exception of Valve I doubt many would be on board.  You could always "Tyrant" style it but then you become as bad as the companies you are looking to improve.  Plus a lot of gamers these days aren't true gamers I have noticed (not to insult anyone) but I personally know handfuls of people who play Call of Duty 6-8 hours a day and then turn around and start insulting people who play RPG's, MMO's, Puzzle games ETC.  Because they only feel their game is important, I have literally been told that "Call of Duty is the best and most challenging online game ever made"  which is a stretch from the truth at best.  Recently when I was playing Far Cry 3 (Great game BTW if anyone is curious) I was having a friend watch me, this friend was a huge fan of facebook games and he spends all day playing them.  He then tells me "You just wasted 2 hours playing that game when we could of been doing something else."  Games have become so casual, which isn't always a bad thing, these days it gives people who use to think gamers were "nerds" (Nerd pride!!!!!!) the ability to play games without feeling like a nerd (Nerd pride!!!!!)  I bring it up because you would need gamers to support this, and most gamers these days are one game pony's or are in denial that they are a gamer at all.  But Knight Light you have my support all the way!!!!!

To be honest, I believe there's only a handful of people alive who don't play games of some type. Whether it's freeze tag, chess, bingo, WoW or Aion (blargh). They like to pretend they're not wasting time and look down on others who enjoy gaming to make themselves feel better.
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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 11:49:28 PM »
Guess what I heard today. Donald Trump is trying to sue some political comedian for 5 mil, over what is essentially a "your mom" joke.

You know how they're talking about putting stricter regulations on gun laws by having more complex background checks before someone can own a gun?

It's time they do that for people before they can own a business. One of the prerequisites should be: not being a sociopath.

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Taceus Jiwede

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2013, 12:33:43 AM »
It's time they do that for people before they can own a business. One of the prerequisites should be: not being a sociopath.

ADVOCATE FOR PEN CONTROL

Amen.  I would like to add on "not being a douche" too.

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2013, 01:17:22 AM »
To be honest, I believe there's only a handful of people alive who don't play games of some type. Whether it's freeze tag, chess, bingo, WoW or Aion (blargh). They like to pretend they're not wasting time and look down on others who enjoy gaming to make themselves feel better.

Some kid in highschool tried to start a fight with me for wearing a game shirt. He said a bunch of stuff about finding something better to do, and blah blah blah peer pressure, fitting in blah blah blah. And I asked, "Would a better use of my time be, looking for stupid excuses to beat people up?"

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2013, 04:32:25 PM »
Some kid in highschool tried to start a fight with me for wearing a game shirt. He said a bunch of stuff about finding something better to do, and blah blah blah peer pressure, fitting in blah blah blah. And I asked, "Would a better use of my time be, looking for stupid excuses to beat people up?"

... and he didn't punch you for that?

Nafaustu

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2013, 04:45:02 PM »
There is the Videogame Voters network... I'm not sure how much traction you'd get with that.   I think that might be exclusively America, but it might be a place to start looking at infrastructure.   They send out notifications and addresses when legislation is crap...

Blue Pulsar

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2013, 05:47:43 PM »
Frankly, I am not for the regulation of business by any government. At least not like this. I don't like what NCSoft did, but I'm also tired of people looking to elected officials to solve all their problems. Everything comes to an end. If you are lucky, you can witness a movement of a number of people to bring it back like Team Wildcard is doing. But leave the government out of it.

Let me put it this way. The people give government its power, right? Well, where does it come from? That's right the people. The more power we give them, the less we have. Not exactly a great thing to do, historically.
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Twisted Toon

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2013, 07:17:25 PM »
Frankly, I am not for the regulation of business by any government. At least not like this. I don't like what NCSoft did, but I'm also tired of people looking to elected officials to solve all their problems. Everything comes to an end. If you are lucky, you can witness a movement of a number of people to bring it back like Team Wildcard is doing. But leave the government out of it.

Let me put it this way. The people give government its power, right? Well, where does it come from? That's right the people. The more power we give them, the less we have. Not exactly a great thing to do, historically.
How else can we pass the buck and avoid responsibility?  :P
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Knight Light

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2013, 10:20:07 PM »
Frankly, I am not for the regulation of business by any government. At least not like this. I don't like what NCSoft did, but I'm also tired of people looking to elected officials to solve all their problems. Everything comes to an end. If you are lucky, you can witness a movement of a number of people to bring it back like Team Wildcard is doing. But leave the government out of it.

Let me put it this way. The people give government its power, right? Well, where does it come from? That's right the people. The more power we give them, the less we have. Not exactly a great thing to do, historically.

Your post helps me recognize how different all our views can be different but I firmly believe that no matter our differences, if we always genuinely work together to find the middle, we have considerably less chance of being completely wrong.

Firstly, let me say that I take great offence to your usage of the term "Everything comes to an end". It has no place in the matter of "NCSoft vs. Paragon City".

I have absolutely no idea precisely what happened but I know for sure with every fibre of my being that at no point did City of Heroes "come to an end." It was put down. A perfectly healthy Championship race horse was taken out to a field and shot in the back of the head.

I took a couple days off haunting the boards after making this post. It's something that just came to me and I wasn't entirely sure whether I was serious or not, I had enough to keep me busy; a job hunt is a full time job and whatever hours I could afford myself for leisure I put into becoming immersed in a game I was trying to finish years ago. I tried to pay no mind to what might be responded but did every so often drift off to how might an association like this work.

I believe the primary purpose would be to become an embodiment to which the public would have no choice but to say "You know what, I don't agree with everything that everyone says, but if these folks are saying etcetera about this particular matter; then it's got to be right. If it's there, it was quintuple checked and agreed upon by people who know what they're talking about, at least as a collective. "

It's not about regulation; if we start regulating things we are bound to constrict and get in the way of art. Under the banner of such an association, many of the works taken into consideration should be treated as art and it would be wrongful to stand in the way of that. The main power would come from the ability to grant company and product support and provide accurate information and dependable arguments for not supporting a company or their product.

The secondary purpose of such an organization would be to become something that the companies are genuinely afraid of. Companies don't fear anything these days because we've shown them that no matter what they do, they can solve it all by writing someone a check later. The idea is to make them have to say to each other "Look, we're not subject to every whim that comes to our door but if we don't do right by these people on the basics, if we don't have their support; we're sunk. They are reasonable but they are pissed and they are done rewarding bad behaviour"

It's very much a rudimentary idea filled with too much idealism to fit properly in the world as it functions(?) currently but who knows, perhaps with some nurturing.

As for the following, I believe part of it belongs in an entirely different forum but since you brought it up.

Regardless of the realities of life, in my world the people should never give power to their government, they lend power to a collection of people for administrative purposes. If that's not how things are where you are then I'd look into what's within your reach to change that. Elected officials are there to speak for you; if they aren't helping to solve the problems you cannot solve alone, problems that a decent population is up in arms about, then what are they really good for? I know I'm making CoH sound more important than it is; there's bigger concerns in the world, but if governements have the time to argue for a day on a matter and not get anywhere, they have 5 minutes to talk about City of Heroes.

However, I'm not suggesting that the governments come in and solve our problem. I suggest government recognition as a means of reaching up to a platform on which we actually have the means of waging a battle against an entity such as NCSoft. When they announced the closure of CoH, we lacked the power to even ask why and expect an answer. It took a month for them to deem to speak to us. There should be some manner of investigating a situation like the one that has occurred. If not to condemn NCSoft, then to clear their name(I, personally, believe NCSoft is evil and malicious, however not knowing absolutely every detail about what happened; I would be a fool if I completely dismissed the infinitesimally small possibility that they made the right decision). As far as governments go, aside from recognition of "You're pissed and want to be heard in the pursuit of genuine justice.", they would be restricted to assisting in it being a fair fight, not fighting the battle.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2013, 10:45:10 PM »
Frankly, I am not for the regulation of business by any government.

Can't be any worse than what we have now. Government regulated by business.

JaguarX

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2013, 11:40:28 PM »
Guess what I heard today. Donald Trump is trying to sue some political comedian for 5 mil, over what is essentially a "your mom" joke.

You know how they're talking about putting stricter regulations on gun laws by having more complex background checks before someone can own a gun?

It's time they do that for people before they can own a business. One of the prerequisites should be: not being a sociopath.

A businessman uses a pen. It's mightier than the sword, and also more destructive.

ADVOCATE FOR PEN CONTROL

You know good and well that isnt going happen given that 2/3rd of the law makers are business men, retired business people and or close buddies with powerful business people. And the other 1/3 seems to be either along for the ride and or muted by the other 2/3rds.   :P.


Plus in order to suceed a person have to be a bit of a socipath to get there. Have to maximize profits, even knowing it's a rip-off, have to destroy the competition in-house and outside (as everyone cant be an executive), and have to get in good with the movers and shakers while turning up ya nose at the rest of the "lazy peons" *ahem* people that are beneath your god like skills and will, money and who you know, to make it to the top. Must be able to do all of this and lose no sleep.

"A conscience have no place in business."- A successful business person I know.

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TimtheEnchanter

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2013, 11:51:57 PM »
"A conscience have no place in business."- A successful business person I know.

An idea that deserves to be eliminated, by any means necessary.

And give it time... business people want to whine about "lazy people" taking advantage of the system? They should've thought about that when they were trying their darnedest to make everyone dependent. Nothing makes a better customer than a lazy person who wants everything done for him/her.

Can't have it both ways.

There's more to having a conscience than being nice to people. It's realizing that eventually you're going to reap what you sow.

JaguarX

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2013, 11:58:51 PM »
An idea that deserves to be eliminated, by any means necessary.

And give it time... business people want to whine about "lazy people" taking advantage of the system? They should've thought about that when they were trying their darnedest to make everyone dependent. Nothing makes a better customer than a lazy person who wants everything done for him/her.

Can't have it both ways.

There's more to having a conscience than being nice to people. It's realizing that eventually you're going to reap what you sow.

I +1 this. Especially the bolded part.

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2013, 05:10:08 AM »
An idea that deserves to be eliminated, by any means necessary.

And give it time... business people want to whine about "lazy people" taking advantage of the system? They should've thought about that when they were trying their darnedest to make everyone dependent. Nothing makes a better customer than a lazy person who wants everything done for him/her.

Can't have it both ways.

There's more to having a conscience than being nice to people. It's realizing that eventually you're going to reap what you sow.
I +1 this. Especially the bolded part.
Agreed.

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2013, 05:27:36 AM »
We lost an entire CITY!  We should get a bailout from the Feds here in the U.S. so we can reclaim our CITY!  Our politicians should have the clout to force this issue.  We only need about 150 mil to get NC Scum to sell it to us.  Far less than was sent to any other bailout.   ;)  Obama, you listening Bro? 8)
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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2013, 06:36:15 AM »
We lost an entire CITY!  We should get a bailout from the Feds here in the U.S. so we can reclaim our CITY!  Our politicians should have the clout to force this issue.  We only need about 150 mil to get NC Scum to sell it to us.  Far less than was sent to any other bailout.   ;)  Obama, you listening Bro? 8)

Na Obama ain't listening.  Obama Y U MAD bro?

What would be nice is if some kindhearted billionaire decided to just walk in and buy it from NCSoft.  I mean whats 150 mil if you have a billion dollars?  If I win this big powerball, ill buy it for us.

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2013, 03:44:59 PM »
Your post helps me recognize how different all our views can be different but I firmly believe that no matter our differences, if we always genuinely work together to find the middle, we have considerably less chance of being completely wrong.

Consensus is a joke. Democracy is great, but someone always gets left out. And even at that, others will settle for second or third best. And just because a number of people want something, that doesn't make it right. Don't get me wrong. The voice of the people should always be important, but it's a two edged sword, really.

Quote
Firstly, let me say that I take great offence to your usage of the term "Everything comes to an end". It has no place in the matter of "NCSoft vs. Paragon City".

I have absolutely no idea precisely what happened but I know for sure with every fibre of my being that at no point did City of Heroes "come to an end." It was put down. A perfectly healthy Championship race horse was taken out to a field and shot in the back of the head.

Getting offended at my words and then providing a semantic argument is not going to help one bit. Yes, the game came to an end before it's time and unnaturally thanks to a bulls#1t decision by NCSoft. But it did come to an end. It is essentially dead or, at best, in stasis. The sooner we can get past the past, the sooner we can work towards the future.

Quote
I believe the primary purpose would be to become an embodiment to which the public would have no choice but to say "You know what, I don't agree with everything that everyone says, but if these folks are saying etcetera about this particular matter; then it's got to be right. If it's there, it was quintuple checked and agreed upon by people who know what they're talking about, at least as a collective. "

See paragraph one. A hive mind is not always in their right might... Ever heard of collective obsessional behavior? Not saying we are guilty of this... but, just saying.

Quote
It's not about regulation; if we start regulating things we are bound to constrict and get in the way of art. Under the banner of such an association, many of the works taken into consideration should be treated as art and it would be wrongful to stand in the way of that. The main power would come from the ability to grant company and product support and provide accurate information and dependable arguments for not supporting a company or their product.

The secondary purpose of such an organization would be to become something that the companies are genuinely afraid of. Companies don't fear anything these days because we've shown them that no matter what they do, they can solve it all by writing someone a check later. The idea is to make them have to say to each other "Look, we're not subject to every whim that comes to our door but if we don't do right by these people on the basics, if we don't have their support; we're sunk. They are reasonable but they are pissed and they are done rewarding bad behaviour"

It's very much a rudimentary idea filled with too much idealism to fit properly in the world as it functions(?) currently but who knows, perhaps with some nurturing.

I'm sorry. I'm really trying hard to figure out what you are suggesting in this thread. All I keep seeing are a lot of half ideas and unorganized thought. What is this "organization" that doesn't regulate business but makes companies scared and makes them do what is right?

Your rhetoric displays at least some semblance of intelligence, but I think you need to be much more clear and waaaay more concise.

Quote
As for the following, I believe part of it belongs in an entirely different forum but since you brought it up.

Regardless of the realities of life, in my world the people should never give power to their government, they lend power to a collection of people for administrative purposes. If that's not how things are where you are then I'd look into what's within your reach to change that. Elected officials are there to speak for you; if they aren't helping to solve the problems you cannot solve alone, problems that a decent population is up in arms about, then what are they really good for? I know I'm making CoH sound more important than it is; there's bigger concerns in the world, but if governements have the time to argue for a day on a matter and not get anywhere, they have 5 minutes to talk about City of Heroes.

I live in the United States of America. And here, the government has too much power. Not to mention they don't listen to the people. Nationalized health care and gun control anyone?

This next paragraph is very unclear and even self-contradicting at points.

Quote
However, I'm not suggesting that the governments come in and solve our problem. I suggest government recognition as a means of reaching up to a platform on which we actually have the means of waging a battle against an entity such as NCSoft...

I'm sorry, but this is what I mean. This is a very vague statement.

Quote
...When they announced the closure of CoH, we lacked the power to even ask why and expect an answer. It took a month for them to deem to speak to us. There should be some manner of investigating a situation like the one that has occurred. If not to condemn NCSoft, then to clear their name(I, personally, believe NCSoft is evil and malicious, however not knowing absolutely every detail about what happened; I would be a fool if I completely dismissed the infinitesimally small possibility that they made the right decision)...

So, basically, you want to take away a company's right to make bad decisions and be a#@holes? They have right to privacy as much as we do. Again, I don't like what they did, but knowing why they did it will not bring our city back.

Quote
As far as governments go, aside from recognition of "You're pissed and want to be heard in the pursuit of genuine justice.", they would be restricted to assisting in it being a fair fight, not fighting the battle.

And what is this battle that we are fighting with NCSoft? As far as I know, our best bet right now is to join Team Wildcard in their efforts to convince other great companies to pursue the CoX IP. Going after NCSoft in the way you recommend is just not going to solve anything.

Look, I admire your enthusiasm, but pulling in the government in ANY facet is pointless. Thinking that we can fight NCSoft in some sort of frontal attack is false. Finding out why they closed the game is not going to help either. I just really don't see anything that you are suggesting really doing a lot of solid good for this community's sake. If I have missed something, it's not for my lack of trying.

I am all for the game coming back as it was. I would LOVE to see that. If that doesn't happen, there are two Plan Zs in the works. There are even other non-Titan projects to create rogue servers of the real game. If our efforts are not on one of these projects, then I feel we are wasting our time. Musing about some grandiose agency that will keep companies in check and solve some sort of problem we have here is one of those wastes unfortunately.
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Taceus Jiwede

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2013, 08:28:44 AM »
I think Knight Light was just voicing an idea, as he stated he was only half serious and everyone has come up with radical ideas that if done correctly could possibly work.  But most importantly he came to express an idea with a community, a community based on saving coh, remembering CoH, and just expressing your opinions on MMO's and they way they are run.  We are community of game-less internet dwellers looking for a place to connect and blow off steam.

There is no BAD post. 

You also have to keep in mind not everyone agrees with your stance on government.  I wont say one way or another because I don't like to pretend to know what is best for an entire country of people.  The government here in the states is flawed as hell, but it could be worse. I am just grateful I can wake up everyday in a warm bed, in a country that I don't have to fear decapitation for a slight difference in my beliefs or because no one is stopping people from doing to get my share of bread for a day, not to mention I can go to my faucet and get a clean cup of water at any time.  You can dislike the government in anyway you want, everyone has a different opinion of what is best for the world.  But most people don't wanna hear it on a forum dedicated to the CoH community.  Knight Light was just suggesting an idea that could only be done by a government because of the resources and power they have, I am sure if there was some other thing that could fund and enforce his ideas he would go with them.

Edit: Grammer

Unrelated:  I am a boss now!  If this was an AE farm, I would be turned off.

SARobb

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2013, 03:21:30 PM »
Unrelated:  I am a boss now!  If this was an AE farm, I would be turned off.

pfft.. not for my fire/kin  ;)
Stand up for what you beleive in - even if you are standing alone

Segev

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2013, 03:44:44 PM »
Frankly, I am not for the regulation of business by any government. At least not like this. I don't like what NCSoft did, but I'm also tired of people looking to elected officials to solve all their problems. Everything comes to an end. If you are lucky, you can witness a movement of a number of people to bring it back like Team Wildcard is doing. But leave the government out of it.

Let me put it this way. The people give government its power, right? Well, where does it come from? That's right the people. The more power we give them, the less we have. Not exactly a great thing to do, historically.
Hear here.

The correct response is the PR campaign, the efforts to get private institutions to apply pressure to sell it to them to run, and, if all else fails, to take it upon ourselves to prove that this was a mistake by building our new home ourselves.

Which, incidentally, is something I'm proud to be a part of, and grateful to all of you for your continued well-wishings and, to those of you who're working on the Phoenix Project, for all your hard work and dedication. This is going to work because of this community. And we're doing it the right way, costing nobody save those who are willing to take the risks and put in the effort anything. And we, this community, will reap the rewards when they come forth, not just with a spiritual successor to house our community, but with the sterling message that we are heroes, and this is what we do!


Also, you don't mess with super-villains. They'll show you up by doing it bigger and better.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2013, 12:21:00 AM »
I can't tell what is being debated anymore. The general balance between people, business, and government, or a solution to incidents such as the NCsoft closure specifically.

One argument is a question of where there is too much power and where there is not enough.

The other specifically applies to art and/or the civil rights of virtual communities.

Knight Light

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2013, 11:53:13 PM »
Sorry for the delay in responding, it's been a hectic passed several days.

I can see how, from your surroundings, you might think consensus is a joke but I assure you; it does exist.

Your rhetoric displays at least some semblance of intelligence, but I think you need to be much more clear and waaaay more concise.

Gee, thanks... that's not a backhanded compliment at all...

I'd love to have given you a short concise plan detailing precisely what to do but I kind of didn't want this to be a dictatorship. I had an idea that, despite my many qualities, I could not possibly flesh out on my own and so I opened it up for debate in this, what's it called? oh right, a forum. I don't believe anything like this had been done before so there is no plan or guide to follow. Y'know, we don't really learn it in school but I wonder how long it took to draft your Constitution. They hammer that out in an afternoon? It was all Jefferson, right? He was always the rock star.

Is it so terrible to want some manner of harnessing the power of the consumer for protection from these massive corporations that can't be fought and can get away with anything?

As for their right to privacy, I was all for it until they came in and intervened in my personal life and ripped a hole in my soul. So they've forfeited that on this issue. No matter how long it takes, one way or another, if I can't have the only thing I have wanted with every fibre of my being for every single second since 4:08pm thursday, march 24th, 2011, then NCSoft is going to tell me precisely why. There is no argument on that and there isn't a thing that will stand in my way. Perhaps you cannot fight NCSoft, but I am going to and while I'm there I'll see what I can do about getting CoH released from their prison closet. City of Heroes is something that deserves to reach its conclusion.



Oh and I hate to break it to you but it is not your government that has too much power. It's the only two parties your peeps vote for and the lobbies that back them that have entirely WAY too much power.

It's fairly evident there's a problem when a Congressman has the ability to insert an amendment drafted by the National Rifle Association into an unrelated spending bill in order to effectively cripple your Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

That's probably best left to another forum though.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 12:29:27 AM by Knight Light »

Blue Pulsar

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Re: G.A.M.E.
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2013, 07:42:38 PM »
I can see how, from your surroundings, you might think consensus is a joke but I assure you; it does exist.

Oh, I know it exists, but it ends up being something different for everyone. For some, it's winner take all. For others, it's the lesser of the two evils. For others, it's "I just got shat on, but I guess it could be worse." And yet for others, even though usually the minority, it's "I got shat on, and it can't be much worse."

Consensus just gives a majority of the people something tolerable. There are, unfortunately, no real great ways to give everyone what they want.

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Gee, thanks... that's not a backhanded compliment at all...

I mean, kinda. What I am trying to say is: Yes, you are are obviously intelligent, but, at least on this topic, your thoughts are a tad disorganized.

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I'd love to have given you a short concise plan detailing precisely what to do but I kind of didn't want this to be a dictatorship. I had an idea that, despite my many qualities, I could not possibly flesh out on my own and so I opened it up for debate in this, what's it called? oh right, a forum. I don't believe anything like this had been done before so there is no plan or guide to follow.

However, even in congress, often times a bill that is nearly complete and vote ready is what goes before the congressmen. However, it rarely stays in that state. It's nearly always hashed out and reworked. Changing, often, a lot of things that the original author wanted kept. If you were to give a detailed and concise plan as to what you wanted, you would actually get more feedback and ideas from others. Then, you incorporate what they think should change, or you debate why it shouldn't be changed. At least that's how it usually works.

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Y'know, we don't really learn it in school but I wonder how long it took to draft your Constitution. They hammer that out in an afternoon? It was all Jefferson, right? He was always the rock star.

Actually, the United States Constitution took 21 days to draft, hash out, and sign by the Constitutional Convention. They appointed 5 people to draft the document, not one of which was Thomas Jefferson. Of course, it took one month before that for all of the delegates from all the states to trickle into the convention and eventually compromise on the issues presented by the "Nationalists" and the "Patriots." So, if you count from start of the convention to the signing, it was 53 days for completion. Of course it took almost a year for all the states to accept, or "ratify", it.

Anyway, now you know.

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Is it so terrible to want some manner of harnessing the power of the consumer for protection from these massive corporations that can't be fought and can get away with anything?

No, it's not terrible for wanting power over someone else's actions. Unless of course you're a company... Then it's really, really, really bad to want power over someone else. See the double standard?

Also, I have no desire to get the government involved.

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As for their right to privacy, I was all for it until they came in and intervened in my personal life and ripped a hole in my soul. So they've forfeited that on this issue.

They offered something for 8 years. Then, becuase they thought it would make them more money in some way, they took it away. They did not force you to get hooked on it. They did not make you buy it. They did not steal your money. They simply stopped offering a service. Again, don't get me wrong. I hate what they did too and they played bad cards from the get go. Never advertising, denying Paragon Studios, etc. But, just as you have the right to own a company, make a product, and then discontinue that product, they too have that right.

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No matter how long it takes, one way or another, if I can't have the only thing I have wanted with every fibre of my being for every single second since 4:08pm thursday, march 24th, 2011, then NCSoft is going to tell me precisely why. There is no argument on that and there isn't a thing that will stand in my way. Perhaps you cannot fight NCSoft, but I am going to and while I'm there I'll see what I can do about getting CoH released from their prison closet. City of Heroes is something that deserves to reach its conclusion.

I admire your passion and if you have the will to see your desires through, then I admire you even more. I just have two problems with what you want. I don't want to see the government get involved, and I don't really care why they did what they did. Their reasons, real or imagined, will not help me at all. I just want my game back.



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Oh and I hate to break it to you but it is not your government that has too much power. It's the only two parties your peeps vote for and the lobbies that back them that have entirely WAY too much power.

I can tell that you are not from the US. Not only is that evident from the fact that you continually call it "your government" referring to me, but also from the fact that you think it needs to be stronger. Your next point proves mine.

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It's fairly evident there's a problem when a Congressman has the ability to insert an amendment drafted by the National Rifle Association into an unrelated spending bill in order to effectively cripple your Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The fact that government can give rights and take them away (but mostly take them away) is the evidence that they have too much power. This group, the NRA, that you speak of is NOT government and is in fact a group of private citizens. But if you notice... they still had to go through the government. I think that a collective group of private citizens should have more power than the people who are governing over them. There are more constituents than people in the government. We vote for them and give them their power. But why should we give up so much of it? My guess is becuase people are lazy and simply don't want the responsibility of taking care of themselves.... But you're right about this...


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That's probably best left to another forum though.

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