Culture shocked!

[dwturducken]

I may be opening up the door to a mine field, here, but hear me out.

The library at the school I'm attending was discarding (selling) some of its outdated (mid 80s to mid 90s) books, so I picked up about half a dozen books on business etiquette in Asia. There were a number of motivations, but one was certainly curiosity after the rather heated discussions here.

Unfortunately, a lot of the initial concerns that were discussed, here, are validated by these texts. In fact, one book, Passport Korea, from World Trade Press, has a short chapter that specifically deals with Han and Kibun. None of the insights seem to be coming from a viewpoint that is any more enlightened than some of the stuff we were seeing, here, but it bears pointing out.

Of particular interest to me was a section in one, The Asia Business Book, by David Rearwin, that specifically addressed intellectual property rights in the RoK. Bearing in mind that the book was published in 1991 and states that, at the time, the RoK did not have many computers, intellectual property law was pretty toothless, with IP piracy being a fairly common and accepted practice. I will see if I can find more up to date information quickly, but it struck me as food for thought. Maybe the growth of Korean corporations over the last twenty years into western markets has changed that. Maybe it's nothing.

And, maybe this thread will be locked as soon as it's posted. That's OK, too. In fact, I half expect it.

[Surelle]

Honestly, kobuns, kibuns and whatever ceased to matter long ago because there are no negotiations going on with NCSoft, and they shut that door a long time ago.  They backhandedly admitted that certain unnamed parties had at some point previously offered to buy CoH's IP when they recently mentioned they could not find anyone satisfactory to sell to; they never said they couldn't find anyone to sell to, so even they admit there were deals presented to them.  But they have basically said multiple times now that they aren't selling anyway, period.  End of story.

Their one tiny break in the wall (and that one tiny opportunity, if there ever was one) came back when Mercedes did that Korean Times interview; their public representative seemed to intimate that they weren't sure what would happen to CoH at that point, unlike the usual, severe "No way!" of all the other times.   They were totally caught off guard and made to look foolish in their own country; a first by NA/EU gamers I'd wager to bet, and that threw them for a loop.

But then for whatever reason, no one at NCSoft was apparently approached with a serious offer to buy the IP at that critical point in time.    Nowadays the furor has died down, most of the general gaming populace and press have moved on, and that's that.  Not much more thinking about NCSoft really needs to be done.

I often wonder that we aren't all best off volunteering to help with the compatible server project so there are more hands on deck and faster progress is being made there.  There's really only so long we can continue randomly targeting gaming companies at large and bothering them out of nowhere with our wildest hopes and dreams anyway, especially when NCSoft doesn't have a For Sale sign up in the first place, and the world at large is already quite aware that other companies have already tried to get NCSoft to budge and failed.  NCSoft has recently publicly admitted as much.

I wouldn't overly waste your time on this angle at any rate, but that's just my two influence.

[Colette]

I know nothing about all this Korean stuff and doubt it's really relevant.

"Not much more thinking about NCSoft really needs to be done."

Well, I agree in that it's obvious NCSoft doesn't want to budge. For my part, I will do my part to condemn them online for so long as they exist. From the looks of their stock, I doubt they'll live out the year. To perdition with them.

The "ICON" program really encourages me that we'll eventually be able to duplicate the server. Once we manage that, or otherwise duplicate the game under our own resources, I expect enforcing Intellectual Property Rights across the Pacific would prove just about impossible. And while I am almost always a firm advocate of IP rights, I consider this case exceptional.

Or in other words, any way we can screw NCSoft over will only be rough justice at this point.

[TonyV]

And, maybe this thread will be locked as soon as it's posted. That's OK, too. In fact, I half expect it.

Locked?  How about stabbed repeatedly?

/e noooo   

[Captain Electric]

In fact, one book, Passport Korea, from World Trade Press, has a short chapter that specifically deals with Han and Kibun?

Okay, Mr. Smarty Pants, you want to bring this thing up again? Fine. You answer me just one thing, then.



















































































[Wait for it...]































































































What does Star Wars have to do with Kibun?

[Tenzhi]

[Wait for it...]

Can we report a post for having too much "Wait for it" and not enough "Legendary"?

[Captain Electric]

That hurts, Tenzhi. *Sniff*

And besides, I don't specialize in good jokes.

[Victoria Victrix]

Well, one thing that we can do is figure out how to incentivize NCSoft into selling.

I dunno, just reminders every couple of days to the publicity department "I now have the leisure time I was spending gaming to track down every review of every one of your products and post negative comments about it at least once a week.  And I will.  Repeatedly.  Unless you sell the IP of City of Heroes, then I will be too busy gaming to care about you anymore."

Maybe the same to Kim as well....

Then DO it.

Just a suggestion.

[General Idiot]

That seems a little vindictive, to me.

[CG]

It's just business.

[Cobra Man]

It's just business.

Indeed it is.

Bad business.

[JaguarX]

good business bad business excellent business horrible business "wtf" business "oh that makes sense" business amoral business moral business immoral business business of business- in the end it's still all  'business'. Only thing that changes is the category and how it it judged by various people and thus a business can be all of the above or none of the above depending on what person is asked, and their experience if at all, with the business, and their view of how the business performs compared to what they view as fair right or wrong unfair proper improper or whether or not they like the business or not due to personal reasons. 

[Colette]

"That seems a little vindictive, to me."

Yeah, gotta admire that. 

[DarkCurrent]

The greatest incentive I can think to get them to sell is to convince them of its impending value of zero because a replacement is right around the corner.

Hype the Plan Zs.  Discuss their goal of taking over the NA and EU MMO market with a new philosophy.  Talk about the simultaneous launch in Asia to attract the eastern market with western cultured superhero appeal.

[JaguarX]

Hype the Plan Zs.  Discuss their goal of taking over the NA and EU MMO market with a new philosophy.  Talk about the simultaneous launch in Asia to attract the eastern market with western cultured superhero appeal.

Now you're talking.

[Victoria Victrix]

Or both.

And make up names to post and mail under.

They can lie to us?  Well we can lie right back.

[Colette]

Okay, I gotta speak up on that. Y'all know I loathe NCSoft, and where I stand.

However tempting it might be to launch a deception campaign like that, this is the Internet. The truth comes out fast and travels at lightspeed. Getting caught in a lie like that would wreck the credibility of our Save CoH movement. I say that would be shooting ourselves in the foot.

A better idea: I suggest when we do have a crack, even a partially functioning one, make sure they know about it. Aside from the sheer joy of tormenting them, it'll reduce the value of their IP to zilch. If we successfully defy any attempt by them to protect their copyright, they have no copyright. At that point, we could put together a modest offer for the IP under a front company. They might even take it, especially if they're in liquidation or have had a change in management by then. Imagine us collectively owning CoH. Wouldn't that be fun?

It's so ironic I'm saying this. I'm a firm defender of artists' rights and hate it when some corp rips off an artist and makes bucks off their hard work. But see above about NCSoft and loathing.

[DarkCurrent]

I wasn't suggesting lying about the Plan Zs.  I'm saying put them in the news as much as we're putting NCSoft in the news.  Or even more.  Create a buzz about them.  It'll increase potential investor interest for the projects and put pressure on NCSoft to move on the CoX IP if they hope to ever make another dime on it.

[Lightslinger]

Unfortunately until a Plan Z project has some serious backing, it will be ignored completely. Any effort to get the media talking about it is kinda fruitless until a Plan Z game has something monumental to show off.

VV is right, taking #SaveCoH to NCsoft's front door whenever possible is the only way we have of keeping this effort going. NCsoft needs to be constantly reminded of the all the games they've shuttered, that way just in case they ever have a slight change of heart we'll be in their head.

Don't be nasty about it, don't be crude, just use game reviews, facebook, twitter etc to keep #SaveCoH going.

[Victoria Victrix]

Unfortunately until a Plan Z project has some serious backing, it will be ignored completely. Any effort to get the media talking about it is kinda fruitless until a Plan Z game has something monumental to show off.

VV is right, taking #SaveCoH to NCsoft's front door whenever possible is the only way we have of keeping this effort going. NCsoft needs to be constantly reminded of the all the games they've shuttered, that way just in case they ever have a slight change of heart we'll be in their head.

Don't be nasty about it, don't be crude, just use game reviews, facebook, twitter etc to keep #SaveCoH going.

I have in mind something like this, posted EVERY time someone has a story about an NCSoft game until the story becomes so old no one else is posting to it.

Well you can throw your time and money away if you choose, but remember, this is from NCSoft, the Game-Killer, who has, by itself killed 1/3 of all shuttered MMOs, ever.  Exteel, Dungeon Runners, Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault and City of Heroes.  It killed those games and completely ignored any attempt by the studios that made them to buy the games back, even though three of the five had reasonable offers on the table.  This game could be pulled out from under you with no warning, at any time--or killed before it even gets out of Beta.  It's your choice and your money, of course, but with a track record like that, I wouldn't trust them with a minute of my time or a penny of my money.

Then send NCSoft a letter with the post and the link to it, and a reminder that you have plenty of time to be making those posts, but if they sold CoH to another publisher and it got rebooted, you would be too busy gaming to bother.

[Colette]

Like I said, admirably vindictive.

Can somebody get that translated into Korean? Having that available in both languages would be just perfect.

[Little Green Frog]

So... How many threads like this one before we can start calling #SaveCoH a cult?

[JaguarX]

So... How many threads like this one before we can start calling #SaveCoH a cult?

Wait. We didnt get our cult status yet? Dang it, I been telling everyone I belong to a cult! Now what am I supposed to say?

[Surelle]

I have in mind something like this, posted EVERY time someone has a story about an NCSoft game until the story becomes so old no one else is posting to it.

Well you can throw your time and money away if you choose, but remember, this is from NCSoft, the Game-Killer, who has, by itself killed 1/3 of all shuttered MMOs, ever.  Exteel, Dungeon Runners, Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault and City of Heroes.  It killed those games and completely ignored any attempt by the studios that made them to buy the games back, even though three of the five had reasonable offers on the table.  This game could be pulled out from under you with no warning, at any time--or killed before it even gets out of Beta.  It's your choice and your money, of course, but with a track record like that, I wouldn't trust them with a minute of my time or a penny of my money.

Then send NCSoft a letter with the post and the link to it, and a reminder that you have plenty of time to be making those posts, but if they sold CoH to another publisher and it got rebooted, you would be too busy gaming to bother.

You know,  I like this idea a lot.  In fact, I still have those old NCSoft email addresses we originally sent the capes, masks and emails too in my saved folder.  I wonder if any of those NCSoft executives have changed their email addresses, or if they feel that they successfully redirected us with the "CoH Sunset" address so they never bothered?

[dwturducken]

I can't believe this is still going. Captain Electric, you may be my new favorite poster, here. I literlaly thought this thread, on this forum, was the equivalent of an office air freshener grenade.

My only point in posting was that, right or wrong, the initial idea of speaking to the head office in Seoul, with cultural considerations in mind, was valid, and the initial concepts discussed were substantiated by what I found.

Now, the books in my possession are outdated, as some of the information has been somewhat refuted by Korean-Americans and so forth. Just as a glaring example, one book says that computers are uncommon in South Korea, to the point where most people do not even have access to one, let alone own one. That was in 1991. A decade later, Starcraft was a professional sport.

What we were trying to do was not wrong. How we went about it was, since book-learnin' can't replace hands on, in many cases. Also, our enthusiasm got out of hand. I'm not saying cooler heads are prevailing, now, but we're better at self-regulating. Now that direct contact with Seoul by us is pointless and basically in the hands of people who, presumably, know what they're doing.

[Colette]

"So... How many threads like this one before we can start calling #SaveCoH a cult?"

Yeah, when did we plan on ritually sacrificing the heretic? I called dibs.

[JaguarX]

"So... How many threads like this one before we can start calling #SaveCoH a cult?"

Yeah, when did we plan on ritually sacrificing the heretic? I called dibs.

I can overlook the process to ensure the heretics are sacrificed in a proper manner.