Um... wow.The goal is to have a spot to go for yes, writing books, licensing logos for shirts, etc.
I... errrr... wow.
(10 minutes later)
Okay, next question - "licensing the IP"... does that mean if, say, someone wanted to start writing books for the CoH IP, that spinoff company would be the one we'd talk to? Or is it solely for GAMING purposes?
(Yes I realize that's contingent on said sale actually going through.)
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
This is....intriguing!
So many questions...but ... I'll keep my trap shut for now.
Very interesting stuff!
But..with Windows 9 supposedly being released very soon...some estimates at April, 2015, others say even earlier because of the flop that Windows 8 is...that really limits the time of this migration, I'm thinking. Or maybe it doesn't. No rule says we have to get Windows 9 right away - at least, I hope not.
Okay. I guess I have one more question because it's unclear to me.
So "COX 1.5" would be a port of COX into the Unreal Engine. Does that mean there would be no official COX 2?
I am curious to see how the community is going to handle mutiple CoH games all competing for their gaming dollars.
My understanding from his comment is CoX 1.5 will be in stopped at i23 and in maintenance mode with unreal engine while CoT, H&V, Valiance would be the CoX2 spiritually. That was my interpretation
Revival will not sit in maint. mode. The game will be updated, and expanded.
Downix,
Can we still have our game without the source code? and Thank you again, and for such a detailed post.
To heck with it, I'm going to ask my questions. The worst that can happen is they can be ignored. :D1) a license of some sort will be needed to meet the obligations of protecting the property. We do not want the next Scarlet Blade to use the material without any say so.
First, THANK YOU SO MUCH for the update. Win or lose, success or failure, at least you've made the effort and you've gone farther than anyone else has to this point. You have my gratitude-- and that of many others-- for making the effort. You have all given us hope in a dark time.
Questions:
1. When you say the other games will have the option to remove the "Spiritual" successor and go with something more official, will they be allowed to allowed to use the lore of COX (hero groups, villains, etc), and the various AT mechanics? Will they be buying a license to allow this?
2. Who will own the IP of COX? This will be a completely separate company from MWM?
3. If successful, will you continue working as part of MWM AND the COX venture?
I'm totally confused.... I have absolutely NO understanding of coding etc etc and this announcement was a lil too technical for me or something.
If everything goes as planned:
CoH as we knew it in Issue 23 will be coming back.. yes?
The whole Windows 9 thing is confusing me... are you saying that when Windows 9 hits... CoH Issue 23... won't work??
Sorry but I have read the statement 5 or 6 times and am totally not understanding what will happen if everything goes through.
Can someone dumb it down for me?
So...the important question simply is... What can we do to help?
Kind of, Yeah. It means no updates to the original game, however.
For starters, for those who don't know.... I run APR. Nate and I have been in talks for a little while now, and I've got a pretty good handle on what the plan is. I'll try and answer some people's questions as best I can, So poor Nate isn't having to do everything.
CoH Issue 23 is planned to make a return, yes. However, the team will not have the ability to make ANY updates to it. No new content, no new costume pieces, no patching out bugs.
On windows 9, I have no information. Most likely there will be compatability issues with running something as old as CoH. Also, see above...No new content.
Enter the heroes of SCoREScore is server only. This issue is of client. They will have the same issue.
For starters, for those who don't know.... I run APR. Nate and I have been in talks for a little while now, and I've got a pretty good handle on what the plan is. I'll try and answer some people's questions as best I can, So poor Nate isn't having to do everything.What is APR?
CoH Issue 23 is planned to make a return, yes. However, the team will not have the ability to make ANY updates to it. No new content, no new costume pieces, no patching out bugs.
On windows 9, I have no information. Most likely there will be compatability issues with running something as old as CoH. Also, see above...No new content.
I'm totally confused.... I have absolutely NO understanding of coding etc etc and this announcement was a lil too technical for me or something.This ^^^^^Thank You for all the work you have done,and I'm probably in the minority on this but,does this mean we can have CoX back like it was.I loved the fact that it was simple and easy to play,how the powers worked and team dynamics.If possible that is what I would want.The new versions may look better but I'm not sure anything will ever play like our beloved game.
If everything goes as planned:
CoH as we knew it in Issue 23 will be coming back.. yes?
The whole Windows 9 thing is confusing me... are you saying that when Windows 9 hits... CoH Issue 23... won't work??
Sorry but I have read the statement 5 or 6 times and am totally not understanding what will happen if everything goes through.
Can someone dumb it down for me?
Downix,I'm purely speculating here, but the interpretation I have from downix's post (PLEASE correct me if I've
Can we still have our game without the source code? and Thank you again, and for such a detailed post.
I'm purely speculating here, but the interpretation I have from downix's post (PLEASE correct me if I'veMy question is does this give them the ability to have a CoH2 not just "spiritual successors? Obviously I am happy and grateful but it would be nice to know this isn't the only possibity either.
misinterpreted) is:
1> *IF* they get that COH-I23 binary, that could be run in maintenance mode on pre Win-9
software environment and server(s). There's no character or account data, so I assume any players
would (by necessity) start from scratch. Nothing has been mentioned about pricing or vet rewards etc.
2> MWM - CoT would be able to be released as COH 1.5
3> Future ? ? ?
So, presuming the first IF becomes fact, I'd say "yes, we can get our game back", but for how long they
are willing to host it, and how long you want to keep your PC at Win 8(?) or earlier, and at what costs,
remain open questions.
Regards,
4
I'm purely speculating here, but the interpretation I have from downix's post (PLEASE correct me if I'veNot quite for #2. Under the plan, the CoT build would be licensed to Atlas Park Revived to make CoH 1.5.
misinterpreted) is:
1> *IF* they get that COH-I23 binary, that could be run in maintenance mode on pre Win-9
software environment and server(s). There's no character or account data, so I assume any players
would (by necessity) start from scratch. Nothing has been mentioned about pricing or vet rewards etc.
2> MWM - CoT would be able to be released as COH 1.5
3> Future ? ? ?
So, presuming the first IF becomes fact, I'd say "yes, we can get our game back", but for how long they
are willing to host it, and how long you want to keep your PC at Win 8(?) or earlier, and at what costs,
remain open questions.
Regards,
4
Ok...since a couple of you are answering questions, yay!I really hope CoH 2 would be part of this.
Issue 23 - good. I can work with that. That means that ski chalet will still be open. Very, very good! Love to ski. (not in real life, I'd break my legs)
A migration to APR - did I get the right? First, CoH as we knew it would be up, live, only no character data. All starting from scratch. Better that than nothing. Then, we migrate to APR, which is like a CoH 1.5 because it's on Unreal 4 and can handle Windows 9. No time table for this, because nobody is forcing us to use Win 9.
Then, eventually, one or more of the "spiritual successors" would come out with their respective games, and if they use CoH stuff, they would deal with the new licensing company that would own the rights to CoH. They drop the "spiritual", because they would be the real successors to the game. But - Valiance, MWM, and I guess Heroes and Villains - they are each making their own game, I thought. Who's working on CoH 2.0? Or did I make an inferential leap that has no legs to land with?
I keep reading and I'm just overloaded, so I'm sorry if you've spelled it out in black and white and I just didn't get it.
For starters, for those who don't know.... I run APR. Nate and I have been in talks for a little while now, and I've got a pretty good handle on what the plan is. I'll try and answer some people's questions as best I can, So poor Nate isn't having to do everything.
CoH Issue 23 is planned to make a return, yes. However, the team will not have the ability to make ANY updates to it. No new content, no new costume pieces, no patching out bugs.
On windows 9, I have no information. Most likely there will be compatability issues with running something as old as CoH. Also, see above...No new content.
...as a City of Titans Kickstarter, this is just about the best possible news I could have hoped for...
The CoH IP would be spun to its own company, to handle licensing. This company would itself license the existing engine from NCSoft for the creation of a maintenance mode, using a binary copy of the i23 server.
The existing user database and characters are not part of this arrangement at this time, nor is the source code.
Ok...since a couple of you are answering questions, yay!
Issue 23 - good. I can work with that. That means that ski chalet will still be open. Very, very good! Love to ski. (not in real life, I'd break my legs)
A migration to APR - did I get the right? First, CoH as we knew it would be up, live, only no character data. All starting from scratch. Better that than nothing. Then, we migrate to APR, which is like a CoH 1.5 because it's on Unreal 4 and can handle Windows 9. No time table for this, because nobody is forcing us to use Win 9.
Then, eventually, one or more of the "spiritual successors" would come out with their respective games, and if they use CoH stuff, they would deal with the new licensing company that would own the rights to CoH. They drop the "spiritual", because they would be the real successors to the game. But - Valiance, MWM, and I guess Heroes and Villains - they are each making their own game, I thought. Who's working on CoH 2.0? Or did I make an inferential leap that has no legs to land with?
I keep reading and I'm just overloaded, so I'm sorry if you've spelled it out in black and white and I just didn't get it.
I only have one request for anything that supposed to take over the current CoX. Do not include i13 pvp and keep the pvp mechanism like pre i13 please. A situation where you try to make everyone win will never work, because there will always be FoTM, atleast the FoTMs in pre i13 and gameplay was vastly more enjoyable.
Not quite for #2. Under the plan, the CoT build would be licensed to Atlas Park Revived to make CoH 1.5.
Same engine, different games. May have a shared user database and crossover opportunities, but that it up to MWM and APR.
Not quite for #2. Under the plan, the CoT build would be licensed to Atlas Park Revived to make CoH 1.5.Ahhh, thanks for the clarification, downix.
Same engine, different games. May have a shared user database and crossover opportunities, but that it up to MWM and APR.
Large parts of I13 PVP are hardcoded and cannot be removed without the source code.
Large parts of I13 PVP are hardcoded and cannot be removed without the source code.
I'm not to concerned about the Windows 9 incompatibility thing, we have emulators for nearly every operating system ever created at our fingertips.
Not worried either...I will probably be running Windows 7 until 9 proves itself LOL
question will Iron Wolf still give updates, or will that fall to Missing Worlds now?
MWM isn't officially involved, so updates wouldn't come from them. I don't have actual information on this, but I'd speculate that information would come from Nate or Ironwolf.nice :) thank you for clearing this up for me :)
Aside from that, CoT updates would come from MWM, APR updates would come from me, and so on.
And details such as how we will gain access (subscription, micro-transactions, etc) haven't been released yet (or maybe even decided upon).
Can't wait for more details.
I just want to add my gratitude for everything that is being done. This is a lesson in patience for all of us. Thank you for giving us hope. Even if things don't work out the way we would like I am still grateful for the effort.This for me too.
For starters, for those who don't know.... I run APR. Nate and I have been in talks for a little while now, and I've got a pretty good handle on what the plan is. I'll try and answer some people's questions as best I can, So poor Nate isn't having to do everything.
CoH Issue 23 is planned to make a return, yes. However, the team will not have the ability to make ANY updates to it. No new content, no new costume pieces, no patching out bugs.
On windows 9, I have no information. Most likely there will be compatability issues with running something as old as CoH. Also, see above...No new content.
I think NC Soft also deserves some Thanks. The hurt they hit us with far greater than any of our in game battles. I'm glad they have at least opened the door to somewhat make better the situation after all this time. It may not be sure thing yet but at least it's hope.
I think NC Soft also deserves some Thanks. The hurt they hit us with far greater than any of our in game battles. I'm glad they have at least opened the door to somewhat make better the situation after all this time. It may not be sure thing yet but at least it's hope.
I think NC Soft also deserves some Thanks. The hurt they hit us with far greater than any of our in game battles. I'm glad they have at least opened the door to somewhat make better the situation after all this time. It may not be sure thing yet but at least it's hope.
I'm purely speculating here, but the interpretation I have from downix's post (PLEASE correct me if I've
misinterpreted) is:
1> *IF* they get that COH-I23 binary, that could be run in maintenance mode on pre Win-9
software environment and server(s). There's no character or account data, so I assume any players
would (by necessity) start from scratch. Nothing has been mentioned about pricing or vet rewards etc.
2> MWM - CoT would be able to be released as COH 1.5
3> Future ? ? ?
So, presuming the first IF becomes fact, I'd say "yes, we can get our game back", but for how long they
are willing to host it, and how long you want to keep your PC at Win 8(?) or earlier, and at what costs,
remain open questions.
Regards,
4
What do we CALL the negotiating team "Downix and friends"? Want us to stay with "Team Hail Mary"?
(Mysterions doesn't quite seem appropriate anymore)
Ok...since a couple of you are answering questions, yay!
Issue 23 - good. I can work with that. That means that ski chalet will still be open. Very, very good! Love to ski. (not in real life, I'd break my legs)
A migration to APR - did I get the right? First, CoH as we knew it would be up, live, only no character data. All starting from scratch. Better that than nothing. Then, we migrate to APR, which is like a CoH 1.5 because it's on Unreal 4 and can handle Windows 9. No time table for this, because nobody is forcing us to use Win 9.
Then, eventually, one or more of the "spiritual successors" would come out with their respective games, and if they use CoH stuff, they would deal with the new licensing company that would own the rights to CoH. They drop the "spiritual", because they would be the real successors to the game. But - Valiance, MWM, and I guess Heroes and Villains - they are each making their own game, I thought. Who's working on CoH 2.0? Or did I make an inferential leap that has no legs to land with?
I keep reading and I'm just overloaded, so I'm sorry if you've spelled it out in black and white and I just didn't get it.
The inability to make fixes kind of worries me - issues can occur due to windows updates or other changes to the client side.
Issues can also occur due to database...
If anything like this occurs, it could literally shut the entire game down.
Crying shame you couldn't get the I23 source.
The inability to make fixes kind of worries me - issues can occur due to windows updates or other changes to the client side.
Issues can also occur due to database...
If anything like this occurs, it could literally shut the entire game down.
Crying shame you couldn't get the I23 source.
Ok....
So correct me if I am wrong (or tell me if I am right), but this is my understanding (if everything works out):
--CoH comes back, frozen at issue 23. Nothing new to ever be added to it. Also, it will be gone again with the arrival of Windows 9, this time never to return.
--When the Coming Storm (Windows 9) arrives, players will have to choose one (or more) successor to continue playing. Each successor will take the IP and go off on their own, effectively as alternate universes that can (but may not) reference the original game. So CoH will die again, but live on in altered form. Analogy: Superman the comic is cancelled, but you can continue on with Christopher Reeve Superman, Brandon Routh Superman, Tom Welling Superman, Henry Cavill Superman, DCAU Superman, or some other iteration, as you prefer.
About right?
So, why is it assumed that Windows 9 will be incompatible? Do they drop support for ancient OpenGL?To a greater or lesser degree, every version of Windows has been incompatible with prior versions. That's
Ok....
So correct me if I am wrong (or tell me if I am right), but this is my understanding (if everything works out):
--CoH comes back, frozen at issue 23. Nothing new to ever be added to it. Also, it will be gone again with the arrival of Windows 9, this time never to return.
--When the Coming Storm (Windows 9) arrives, players will have to choose one (or more) successor to continue playing. Each successor will take the IP and go off on their own, effectively as alternate universes that can (but may not) reference the original game. So CoH will die again, but live on in altered form. Analogy: Superman the comic is cancelled, but you can continue on with Christopher Reeve Superman, Brandon Routh Superman, Tom Welling Superman, Henry Cavill Superman, DCAU Superman, or some other iteration, as you prefer.
About right?
The inability to make fixes kind of worries me - issues can occur due to windows updates or other changes to the client side.
Issues can also occur due to database...
If anything like this occurs, it could literally shut the entire game down.
Crying shame you couldn't get the I23 source.
Yes I think that without the source code, its just like reviving the game for a little while so you can say your final goodbyes... But I wonder if the source code is completely off the table, or is it just not part of the current talks?
COH comes back with I23, to be moved onto Unreal4 to both update AND get around whatever problems Windows 9
will cause. That's COH1.5
The successors, all of them, are to be considered COH2, as it were.
And details such as how we will gain access (subscription, micro-transactions, etc) haven't been released yet (or maybe even decided upon).
Can't wait for more details.
I'm not directly involved in the talks with NCSoft, but from what I understand the source is completely off the table, and many of the tools required simply don't exist anymore.
This is where Revival comes in. The plan is kind of...to replace CoH with it. CoH 1.5/CoH 2 if you will. Same setting, same stories you've all known and loved. New engine, new updates, new stories for you to, hopefully, come to love.
I guess what I am most curious about is whether any successor will have the same gameplay at all, or whether we'll be playing an entirely new and different game that just happens to be set in Paragon City, or even in some other city with characters saying ''Yeah, I used to live in Paragon, but I moved here recently. Glad I don't have to deal with Rikti anymore!''
Please remember what Nate said, this is far from final and may never get that far:
So where are we now?
Right now, still discussing terms, ideas, limits. The challenges we have been given we stepped up for and handled. Likely there will be discussions and adjustments right up until the moment the deal is signed. The whole thing may fall apart. For all we know, everything done so far has been nothing but a delaying tactic so they can say once again that they tried to work with the community to no avail. But until such time that becomes clear, we will continue forward in good faith.
This may be a stupid question, but when CoX 1.5 comes in, will the data be x-fered (toons, global, items, in, Sg, Sg Base, Etc) be also ported over from the new CoX under your control or will we need to restart everything again when CoX 1.5 come out? Either way in fine with both
This may be a stupid question, but when CoX 1.5 comes in, will the data be x-fered (toons, global, items, in, Sg, Sg Base, Etc) be also ported over from the new CoX under your control or will we need to restart everything again when CoX 1.5 come out? Either way in fine with both
I would guess that they will make a good faith effort to migrate everything from CoX 1 to 1.5.
That's something I can't really answer yet, as I don't have an answer myself. For the sake of not having any broken hearts, I'd expect it to be a fresh start.
I do plan on looking into it, however there are alot of technical issues to work around.
It seems to me like the whole idea with CoH 1.5 is to basically have CoH live on in a more future-proofed way. Exactly CoH, just updatable, more features to AE, etc.
OK, but how does this affect us Mac users? Will I23 run on OSX Mavericks (10.9.x) or Yosemite (10.10.x)?
Rereading Nate's post gave me that impression too. I think the big thing is that CoH 1.5 devs will have the right to recreate the game that we love, but on a new engine. And that the other spiritual successors no longer have to be scared of getting the pants sued off of them for resembling CoX. And that the i23 game will live on, but for how long?
This may be a stupid question, but when CoX 1.5 comes in, will the data be x-fered (toons, global, items, in, Sg, Sg Base, Etc) be also ported over from the new CoX under your control or will we need to restart everything again when CoX 1.5 come out? Either way in fine with bothI don't think they can guarantee anything as of now. There is a good chance some data wouldn't be compatible, I think.
What group would be actually running the CoH 1 to 1.5 servers?Depends on negotiations. My hope is to self-host by the holding company.
Depends on negotiations. My hope is to self-host by the holding company.
It seems to me like the whole idea with CoH 1.5 is to basically have CoH live on in a more future-proofed way. Exactly CoH, just updatable, more features to AE, etc.
OK, but how does this affect us Mac users? Will I23 run on OSX Mavericks (10.9.x) or Yosemite (10.10.x)?
As they have stated there is no source code for CoH nor the ability to patch, add anything or make any changes, let's hope I23 runs on your Macs as-is. Otherwise, do you have an older Mac that used to run CoH?
You'll have to bear in mind that the system would still be an approximation of the existing CoH. It can't/won't be exact. This isn't a good or a bad thing, but it *will* be a thing.
That said, it will be a thing that will last longer and will be able to grow.
For this reason, best effort on the migration most likely will be limited to Characters and Costumes. It's going to be a long while before anyone can give you anything other than a solid "We're gonna try".
One thing I have to say Irish_Girl is that you've been awesome answering everyone's questions, and imagining your polite tone coming from your avatar with each post has been a delight :)
There might be a hole here or there - and Mega Man vs CoH is like a toaster versus a clockwork in terms of complexity... but I believe it's possible :)
Depends on negotiations. My hope is to self-host by the holding company.
It's really hard to be certain. most of reports I've had on the game part of the engine has not been what I would call kindly spoken of. That said, the community has a lot of collected data that can be examined. Even with that and careful study, the number of variables are such that I have to expect that it will be "mostly" alike and hopefully that will be adequate for everyone. The question becomes one of what is a better use of time? Rebuilding Paragon and Co in another mechanics engine ( H&V, CoT, etc ) or doing the best to emulate CoH in a new codebase.
I don't envy the decision makers there.
Thanks so much, Irish Girl, for even attempting to salvage CoH. Who exactly will be reverse-engineering it and running it, and do they have any sort of time frame of how long that will take?
It's been a long, long road from the forming of TFHM till now.
I'd like to thank everyone involved, from IronWolf to Rae to Nate. I like to think I helped here and there, as well.
Irish, there's a lot of work to do, but I can't wait to see you guys do it.
It's just such a relief to finally be able to talk about it.
- Warcabbit
Lmao! Thanks. Yeah, I'm going to be picturing myself very politely screaming in everyones faces all day now! :P
If you rebuild AE functionality, may I suggest that when you rebuild Base Builder you use a variant of AE rather than re-create as it was originally developed??? -- just a thought/suggestion (I hope you have the opportunity for it to be a problem)
Ok....
--CoH comes back, frozen at issue 23. Nothing new to ever be added to it. Also, it will be gone again with the arrival of Windows 9, this time never to return.
--When the Coming Storm (Windows 9) arrives, players will have to choose one (or more) successor to continue playing. Each successor will take the IP and go off on their own, effectively as alternate universes that can (but may not) reference the original game. So CoH will die again, but live on in altered form. Analogy: Superman the comic is cancelled, but you can continue on with Christopher Reeve Superman, Brandon Routh Superman, Tom Welling Superman, Henry Cavill Superman, DCAU Superman, or some other iteration, as you prefer.
About right?
You mean you don't love stacking gray counters? :(
(https://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/kistulot/SolidWall_zps3a087e5f.png)
For some reason I forgot what the number of max pieces you are allow to have in a SG base before it crashes
CoHi23 comes back as is...and in the meantime they will work on putting CoH1.5 onto Unreal 4. Once CoH1.5 is ready to go they will TRY to port over all our data from CoHi23. Once we are in CoH 1.5 then they can add stuff to it....
If I had it my way, I'd be fine with indefinite maintenance - and that's honestly something I wish was on the table. One of those ways its just enough 'off' may be something that makes it a whole lot lesser in some way... but hope springs eternal, and I have faith that with enough time and effort, something fun can come out of all of this :)
Hey Irish Girl, thanks to you too for your part in this.
If you rebuild AE functionality, may I suggest that when you rebuild Base Builder you use a variant of AE rather than re-create as it was originally developed??? -- just a thought/suggestion (I hope you have the opportunity for it to be a problem)
I know the details arent final yet, but I have to be the downer here.
1.How much will it cost for subscribers to get on the revived COH ?
2. Will it be monthly plans agian or some one time fee?
3.If the game is free to play again, will subscribers at least get something special for paying month after month again until the shift over to REVIVAL? I know incarnate content is the reward and all, but $15 a month for a relaunched 2003 game is gonna be kinda hard to sell to folks without incentives .
I'll be there of course and your plan for the game sounds great overall. I just am curious as to the three questions I asked thats all
I would expect that CoHi23 will live as long as we can rationally keep it up. None of the conversations I have been in have suggested anything resembling a full cutover. That said, we all have to realisticly expect that CoHi23 is on life support.
The whole Windows 9 thing is confusing me... are you saying that when Windows 9 hits... CoH Issue 23... won't work??CoH was originally released when Windows 98 was not entirely off the market yet. No software exists on its' own - and the problem here is it's not just old, it's built for old supporting packages. After a while backwards compatibility is dropped - or outright breaks due to other changes, and nobody gets around to fixing it.
Can someone dumb it down for me?
Thanks Nate, I am grateful for the efforts. Is source code access completely off the table? This "holding company", they are the ones to basically port the existing i23 binary to a new updated engine? Or did I not understand what you posted..?If source is off the table, so is porting the game. APR would not be a "port" but a recreation of the game from scratch using completely different engine and tools.
Is it possible to elaborate upon the code situation?Without source code, nothing can be added. Whether powers can be modified (balance etc) depends on how much of the numbers and power mechanics are hardcoded into the server.
1: without the source code, is it possible to add new powers to the game (with or without new animations), or are the various databases hard-coded into the source code rather than maintained in an external database?
2: if it is possible to add new powers, does the studio intend to add future issues with new powers, powersets, etcetera, or is there no chance, or is it still up in the air depending on what tools are found that can be used to edit the databases?
Here's my question [rhetorical only at this point]: if we get the game back, are we going to be able to use the game version we have DLed on our PC, the original one I mean? Or would we have to buy and install a new one?From what I understand (and I might be wrong), it's just a matter of pointing the client to a new authentication server. This can be done without the need for anything but a specially made shortcut.
Is the old version so tied to our original accounts that we could not use it? I would happily buy a new copy, I'm just curious
So, why is it assumed that Windows 9 will be incompatible? Do they drop support for ancient OpenGL?It's not assumed, but if it turns out to be so, there won't be any way to patch the game.
I remember reading somewhere that the community used to help with coding and stuff when we played CoH? Correct me if I am wrong. Maybe when we finally get the game, and see what there is there are those who are much more cleverminded to sort/fix any faults in the code that would prevent implementing it? Or is it a problem that noone actually has the update, because it wasn't downloaded or patched into the game?? Sorry if that was really neanderthal. ;)Reasonably sure that either you misread something, or the parties involved are under NDAs regarding the source code. TFHM would have a running copy of a server, but not the source code. Thus, no fixes, ever.
There are some really cool ideas floating around for A.E. and Bases, but those are both beasts that will be tackled much later on. They might not even be present in an initial release.could that also be for account based holdings like in Co?
There are some really cool ideas floating around for A.E. and Bases, but those are both beasts that will be tackled much later on. They might not even be present in an initial release.
Without source code, nothing can be added. Whether powers can be modified (balance etc) depends on how much of the numbers and power mechanics are hardcoded into the server.
Maybe I misunderstood the whole announcement, but it just seems like people are jumping to conclusions and maybe setting themselves up for disappointment. It is a positive thing and a step in the right direction, but nowhere near any kind of certainty.
Well, now you know who's the negotiating party.
Rereading Nate's post gave me that impression too. I think the big thing is that CoH 1.5 devs will have the right to recreate the game that we love, but on a new engine. And that the other spiritual successors no longer have to be scared of getting the pants sued off of them for resembling CoX. And that the i23 game will live on, but for how long?
Right now it's pretty much just me working on it, and unfortunately I'm spending the next week packing and cleaning to move. (I should be packing right now, actually. Heh)
I don't have a time frame, I wish I did. It kind of depends on if it stays just me, or if...and how many...people join the project.
Really, I think that's going to depend on talks between myself and the licensing company that (hopefully) picks up the license.
While I am still somewhat confused by reading the post.. I definitely an very thankful for all the time work and effort put in to get the community of City of Heroes their home back..
Man I was hoping for character data..
For starters, for those who don't know.... I run APR. Nate and I have been in talks for a little while now, and I've got a pretty good handle on what the plan is. I'll try and answer some people's questions as best I can, So poor Nate isn't having to do everything.
CoH Issue 23 is planned to make a return, yes. However, the team will not have the ability to make ANY updates to it. No new content, no new costume pieces, no patching out bugs.
On windows 9, I have no information. Most likely there will be compatability issues with running something as old as CoH. Also, see above...No new content.
Windows 7 sunset is 1/14/2020. That will probably be the last stable Win os for City. I'm sure somebody will be able to cludge something together to run it on a Win 9 system. Me personally, at that point I'm sure I'll be neck deep in VO and COT
My biggest concern is the maintenance mode.. if everything goes through.. how long does that last.. I would hate to get back in.. remake stuff and then.. oh well sorry we dont want to run this anymore.. good bye..
For people worrying about "how long can a CoH 1.0 implementation last".Thank You Hyperstrike,that makes me fell better if that is the case.I understand most of you want a newer version of the game but I love it just the way it was.
As long as they can keep the servers stable, honestly, it's almost indefinitely.
There is, currently, NOTHING in the Win9 pipeline that looks to affect anything CoH could do AT ALL.
The biggest hurdle will be building a working game loader/patcher, as a certain amount of the game is primarily client-side stuff that CAN be accessed/worked with/fixed at will. Just so long as the server and client agree on the acceptable version number.
A lot of your questions really depend on what happens next. We need to see if we can get CoH up and running. The old girl isn't in the best shape, we're going to need to build a new environment for her to live in. Auth, login, whole nine yards. We don't know about Windows 9 yet. We haven't seen it, and neither has anyone outside Microsoft, that I'm aware of.
This is just a _guess_, but I'm guessing that we'll get it running in limping mode, enough to check everything's there, show it off a little, and then we'll have to raise some money for servers to get her open. Again, this is just my best guess. CoT money is for CoT, we'd need new cash for this. Maybe a bank loan. Anyhow, once we get her up and limping, we'll be able to see what we need to do to get her running again. (I don't even know if we'll get the website and webstore.)
We're doing our best for you. We know what you want. We _are_ you.
And with your help, we're one step closer to Saving CoH.
- Warcabbit
*whispers to Irish Girl* psssssst talk to SCoRE about teaming up.... (Wish I knew more about them! Do they have code? just a backup? How many of them are there? Still hoping SCoRE doesn't give up at any rate!!)
*ducks*
Windows 7 sunset is 1/14/2020. That will probably be the last stable Win os for City. I'm sure somebody will be able to cludge something together to run it on a Win 9 system. Me personally, at that point I'm sure I'll be neck deep in VO and COT
-Whispers back to Surelle- Pssssssst, IDK who works on SCoRE! and I think what SCoRE and I are doing are kinda on different paths. But, I don't think they should give up either! (If SCoRE does exist, and one of the people who may or may not be working on it feel like getting in touch with me...)
-ducks-
I'm totally ok with this, but my question based on that is.... Does that mean when Win 9 is released, the maintenance mode CoH is effectively shut down? Or, does it mean that the maintenance mode will run in perpetuity and Win 9 users simply won't be able to play the game? (I say this because I don't plan on upgrading to Win 9....also, some of us play CoH on OS X)...
Im not concerned about how long Windows 7 will be around.. I am more concerned whether once again it will just END and we will all be in the lurch again..
...and then we'll have to raise some money for servers to get her open. Again, this is just my best guess. CoT money is for CoT, we'd need new cash for this. Maybe a bank loan.
Since I'm not on the team that would be running CoH's maint. mode, I can't make promises on their behalf. But... I'm pretty sure the i23 server will run in perpetuity. The server is completely separate from any Operating System concerns.^^This^^ at least let's hope so as far as maintenance mode is concerned...perpetuity is our friend ;D
Anyone else, I'd not hesitate. Missing Worlds Media... I'd say use whatever's left of the $600k that was put up for CoT (cause if given the choice, I think more folks would get behind CoH as the tried and true game they knew versus CoT, the still in the planning stages successor that no one has seen yet.
Then again if you're already talking fundraising to finance new servers, then where's the money coming from to support the magic number that's been thrown out and potentially ok'ed by NCsoft? Do you guys have it or you're waiting to crowdfund that too once NCsoft agrees to a deal?
Since I'm not on the team that would be running CoH's maint. mode, I can't make promises on their behalf. But... I'm pretty sure the i23 server will run in perpetuity. The server is completely separate from any Operating System concerns.if I understand, cox maint. will be i23, so will cox 1.5 have i24?
CoH will run on anything that it currently runs on. It's the same client you've all got now. As to if it'll run well on Windows 9, I can't say until I've got a copy of Windows 9 I could test on.
As for OSX, I don't own a Mac but I do believe there's an Issue 23 version of the Mac Client floating around.
Don't you think it'd be a bit on the unethical side to use the funds that people gave for a certain project (COT) for something entirely different (COH revival?) I tend to personally agree with you, but I can't see how re-purposing the funds would work practically.
I don't believe they would do that. From everything I've heard, the intention is to keep Missing Worlds Media and the licensing group completely separate.
Don't you think it'd be a bit on the unethical side to use the funds that people gave for a certain project (COT) for something entirely different (COH revival?) I tend to personally agree with you, but I can't see how re-purposing the funds would work practically.
Wow, you came out of hiding, Bro! :D
Since I'm not on the team that would be running CoH's maint. mode, I can't make promises on their behalf. But... I'm pretty sure the i23 server will run in perpetuity. The server is completely separate from any Operating System concerns.
CoH will run on anything that it currently runs on. It's the same client you've all got now. As to if it'll run well on Windows 9, I can't say until I've got a copy of Windows 9 I could test on.
As for OSX, I don't own a Mac but I do believe there's an Issue 23 version of the Mac Client floating around.
(Click my name above to see my avatar)
Thanks for your answer, Irish_Girl. I sent you a PM.
Side note.... This guy's avatar is basically how I was when I was reading the announcement:
I don't believe they would do that. From everything I've heard, the intention is to keep Missing Worlds Media and the licensing group completely separate.
There's a difference between unethical and what's potentially mismanaged.
Mind you, Nate says they started talking to NCsoft in September 2013 - that's prior to the CoT kickstarter going live. Personally, if I'd known there was a discussion in progress with NCsoft, I wouldn't have then gone out and asked folks for money to fund the spiritual successor of a game that I was actively (but quietly) trying to buy back. That alone has all sorts of red flags - but I digress.
The thing about that is that the effort to buy back COH was never (and still isn't) guaranteed. COT is and was a sure thing, something they knew they could do, so I can't say I blame them for moving forward as if COH wouldn't be back. If these negotiations fall apart, I'm willing to bet that a lot of people will be glad that COT is still being developed. A lot of people will probably play both games also, in the event that COH is saved.
CoT is *not* a sure thing. Kickstarter has a history of successfully funded campaigns that never materialized (for one reason or another). And as stated elsewhere on this forum. the Kickstarter campaign was for CoT in Unreal Engine 3 - and then all of that work was scrapped post-successful fundraising. UE4 was not part of the plan and its just as much a big risk/potential to fail. See "State of the Game" updates where the team says they've had multiple setbacks getting the game off the ground in UE4.
Mind you, Nate says they started talking to NCsoft in September 2013 - that's prior to the CoT kickstarter going live. Personally, if I'd known there was a discussion in progress with NCsoft, I wouldn't have then gone out and asked folks for money to fund the spiritual successor of a game that I was actively (but quietly) trying to buy back. That alone has all sorts of red flags - but I digress.
Given the number of failed buyout attempts that were NOT publicized (but I believe the people involved had information about), putting everything on hold for a plan that had slim-to-none odds of success sounds like the worse choice to me.
They're still probably only low-to-moderate IMO, so I wouldn't start counting any chickens just yet.
I hope it is safe to assume that holiday events and other special events (like Rikti invasions) would be returning. As I understood at the time, they were settings on the server anyway.
Old clunky game engine? Incompatibility with Win 9?
DOESN'T MATTER.
It's the IDEAS and the Intellectual Property that is the real heart and soul of City of Heroes - and if THAT part of the deal goes through as described, then that part of the game - the concepts - the background stories - the characters - the NPCS - the visual design...
THAT PART will have been put in the hands of people who actually CARE about it!
Eventually the game engine will HAVE to change, one way or another. But moving it to Unreal Engine - and allowing other games to be part of the City of Heroes story and reference it..
GOOD GOD... That's HUGE.
Do you know what this means? SERIOUSLY? Have you thought it out to the extreme?
I just have. And it boggles my mind.
Imagine not one or two - but perhaps a DOZEN games - all in the same overall universe story-wise.
IF... IF this is not just NCSoft yanking people around again. If they really allow the IP to go. Then game engines don't matter. CODE doesn't matter.
The Story and the World of City of Heroes can live on even if the original game engine is (or has to be) discarded.
City of Heroes?
Imagine WORLD OF HEROES as a FRANCHISE.
As long as they can keep the servers stable, honestly, it's almost indefinitely.
Issues with the game engine and source code and the like pale into insignificance compared to freeing the IP from NCSoft...
Imagine WORLD OF HEROES as a FRANCHISE.
As for OSX, I don't own a Mac but I do believe there's an Issue 23 version of the Mac Client floating around.
-Whispers back to Surelle- Pssssssst, IDK who works on SCoRE! and I think what SCoRE and I are doing are kinda on different paths. But, I don't think they should give up either! (If SCoRE does exist, and one of the people who may or may not be working on it feel like getting in touch with me...)
I just want to say something. This is partially an expansion of my last post on the previous page. But hear me out.
People on this thread and elsewhere seem to be focussed on the technical aspects and "when can I log in again"?
Issues with the game engine and source code and the like pale into insignificance compared to freeing the IP from NCSoft.
Read the following again:
Old clunky game engine? Incompatibility with Win 9?
DOESN'T MATTER.
It's the IDEAS and the Intellectual Property that is the real heart and soul of City of Heroes - and if THAT part of the deal goes through as described, then that part of the game - the concepts - the background stories - the characters - the NPCS - the visual design...
THAT PART will have been put in the hands of people who actually CARE about it!
Eventually the game engine will HAVE to change, one way or another. But moving it to Unreal Engine - and allowing other games to be part of the City of Heroes story and reference it..
GOOD GOD... That's HUGE.
Do you know what this means? SERIOUSLY? Have you thought it out to the extreme?
I just have. And it boggles my mind.
Imagine not one or two - but perhaps a DOZEN games - all in the same overall universe story-wise.
IF... IF this is not just NCSoft yanking people around again. If they really allow the IP to go. Then game engines don't matter. CODE doesn't matter.
The Story and the World of City of Heroes can live on even if the original game engine is (or has to be) discarded.
City of Heroes?
Imagine WORLD OF HEROES as a FRANCHISE.
I may have missed this when I read through the thread but I have 3 questions.
1. Why is the source code off the table? Is it;
a) NCsoft don't have it
or
b) NCsoft don't want to part with it
2. Why are the existing user database and characters not part of this arrangement? Wouldn't it be good business practice to try and get as many ex-players back as they can. The prospect of players being able to recover beloved characters and SG bases etc would be a very powerful draw. There must be some way to invite players back.
3. Was any thought given to finishing and using i24?
I just want to say something. This is partially an expansion of my last post on the previous page. But hear me out.
People on this thread and elsewhere seem to be focussed on the technical aspects and "when can I log in again"?
Issues with the game engine and source code and the like pale into insignificance compared to freeing the IP from NCSoft.
Read the following again:
Old clunky game engine? Incompatibility with Win 9?
DOESN'T MATTER.
It's the IDEAS and the Intellectual Property that is the real heart and soul of City of Heroes - and if THAT part of the deal goes through as described, then that part of the game - the concepts - the background stories - the characters - the NPCS - the visual design...
THAT PART will have been put in the hands of people who actually CARE about it!
Eventually the game engine will HAVE to change, one way or another. But moving it to Unreal Engine - and allowing other games to be part of the City of Heroes story and reference it..
GOOD GOD... That's HUGE.
Do you know what this means? SERIOUSLY? Have you thought it out to the extreme?
I just have. And it boggles my mind.
Imagine not one or two - but perhaps a DOZEN games - all in the same overall universe story-wise.
IF... IF this is not just NCSoft yanking people around again. If they really allow the IP to go. Then game engines don't matter. CODE doesn't matter.
The Story and the World of City of Heroes can live on even if the original game engine is (or has to be) discarded.
City of Heroes?
Imagine WORLD OF HEROES as a FRANCHISE.
I may have missed this when I read through the thread but I have 3 questions.
1. Why is the source code off the table? Is it;
a) NCsoft don't have it
or
b) NCsoft don't want to part with it
2. Why are the existing user database and characters not part of this arrangement? Wouldn't it be good business practice to try and get as many ex-players back as they can. The prospect of players being able to recover beloved characters and SG bases etc would be a very powerful draw. There must be some way to invite players back.
3. Was any thought given to finishing and using i24?
It's a rats nest and it kills things.That you said this to someone named Cobra Man made me chuckle a little. :)
The game engine matters far more than the IP to me. Both would be great & I do love the lore, but if I had to choose one or the other, it would be the game engine.
My problem is with the word license. That sounds to me like ncsoft willstill have their claws in the ip. Not just for coh, but for successors who use any of it.
...
My problem is with the word license. That sounds to me like ncsoft willstill have their claws in the ip. Not just for coh, but for successors who use any of it.
Why on earth would those three projects agree to that when they are creating their own worlds?
That you said this to someone named Cobra Man made me chuckle a little. :)
The game engine matters far more than the IP to me. Both would be great & I do love the lore, but if I had to choose one or the other, it would be the game engine.
Remember, the engine is different from the game. The engine is simply what renders and runs the game. The game itself, the rules and art and everything, are IP.
That's not how I read Nate's post. What it sounds like is the IP will be sold, lock, stock, and barrel, to a new "City of Heroes" company that will own it. They will be able to license the IP to others to use for various things (games, publishing, etc.), but they, in turn will be licensing the game engine from NCSoft so that a maintenance mode CoH game can be provided.
Obviously, not a part of the team myself, so I could very well be misunderstanding, but that is the way the OP reads to me.
From what I understand (and I might be wrong), it's just a matter of pointing the client to a new authentication server. This can be done without the need for anything but a specially made shortcut.
CoT money is for CoT, we'd need new cash for this. Maybe a bank loan.
That's not how I read Nate's post. What it sounds like is the IP will be sold, lock, stock, and barrel, to a new "City of Heroes" company that will own it. They will be able to license the IP to others to use for various things (games, publishing, etc.), but they, in turn will be licensing the game engine from NCSoft so that a maintenance mode CoH game can be provided.
Obviously, not a part of the team myself, so I could very well be misunderstanding, but that is the way the OP reads to me.
Yes it is this holding company i'm not sure of. Are they getting total ip rights and engine license ? Or just license for both?
I absolutely would refuse licensing the ip from ncsoft. If you did, they'd own the soul of every successor.
Hopefully this can be clarified by nate.
Computer science note: The "binary" version they're talking about is most likely compiled machine code, ready to run. If it wasn't compiled, it'd still be source code, and thus (to some degree) patchable. Once they get the file, it's just a matter of setting up servers for authentification and gameplay, then redirecting the client to the new servers. Now, setting up those servers to handle their potential load, making sure everything can talk to each other properly, and getting a copy of the i23 client to distribute to people who've lost their old ones (Personally, my old laptop is nearly dead and not up to gaming, so I'll need a new client if we get this) - that will all take time, money and effort. So I'm not suggesting that this will be particularly easy. But the offer currently on the table is a ready-to-run copy (and only the ready-to-run version) of the server code, and the capacity to license the IP so they can distribute the game client. Pretty much the minimum possible to create a functional maintenance mode, but it'll work - and the capacity for the IP to be further licensed, allowing for new media in a much-loved world, is an exciting benefit.
Also, re the licensing - did you miss the part where it would be a separate holding company? NCSoft itself would not control the decision-making about who got licenses and whether to withdraw them (though I imagine enough gore and gratuitous sex could get your license application rejected, still). It'd depend on the specifics of the spin-off, but there would be a very limited degree of control here. The licensing company would have the sole purpose of arranging suitable licenses, and games like CoT, VO and H&V are about as suitable as it gets.
Yes it is this holding company i'm not sure of. Are they getting total ip rights and engine license ? Or just license for both?Purchase IP, license engine.
I absolutely would refuse licensing the ip from ncsoft. If you did, they'd own the soul of every successor.
Hopefully this can be clarified by nate.
I'm having a hard time being too interested in that. City of Heroes was a great GAME. As a world it was only good, and many of the creative minds that worked on it, or played in it, could create another very interesting world. But keeping the particular world alive is more important and relevant for financial reasons, than for reasons of imagination.
On the other side, I've read lots and lots of books. Many of them were set in great universes (Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Star Trek, Star Wars)... and many of the books were just bad. Getting a dozen games, of different types, all related to City of Heroes... means next to nothing, if the games are bad. And if they're good, they could be good whether they're tied into CoH or not. I am not in the slightest bit hopeful that a related game is going to be a great game just because it's set in the CoH world. It could be great, yes, but if a team makes a great game... they would have made a great game whether they set it in the CoH or the CoT world.
The game itself (code and design) are what matter to me, because they are a clearly superior product.
can someone explain the APR relationship and how it affects things going forward ??
can someone explain the APR relationship and how it affects things going forward ??
Irish_Girl posted this (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9675.msg158361.html#msg158361) a few pages back.
As she is APR, that's about as official a statement as you'll find!
Computer science note: The "binary" version they're talking about is most likely compiled machine code, ready to run. If it wasn't compiled, it'd still be source code, and thus (to some degree) patchable. Once they get the file, it's just a matter of setting up servers for authentification and gameplay, then redirecting the client to the new servers. Now, setting up those servers to handle their potential load, making sure everything can talk to each other properly, and getting a copy of the i23 client to distribute to people who've lost their old ones (Personally, my old laptop is nearly dead and not up to gaming, so I'll need a new client if we get this) - that will all take time, money and effort. So I'm not suggesting that this will be particularly easy. But the offer currently on the table is a ready-to-run copy (and only the ready-to-run version) of the server code, and the capacity to license the IP so they can distribute the game client. Pretty much the minimum possible to create a functional maintenance mode, but it'll work - and the capacity for the IP to be further licensed, allowing for new media in a much-loved world, is an exciting benefit.Precisely this.
Also, re the licensing - did you miss the part where it would be a separate holding company? NCSoft itself would not control the decision-making about who got licenses and whether to withdraw them (though I imagine enough gore and gratuitous sex could get your license application rejected, still). It'd depend on the specifics of the spin-off, but there would be a very limited degree of control here. The licensing company would have the sole purpose of arranging suitable licenses, and games like CoT, VO and H&V are about as suitable as it gets.
Purchase IP, license engine.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh thanks that makes things clear..
so we get CoH in Unreal.. and MWM develops Titans.. got it
On the bright side, static binaries means no more nerfs ;)
Have no fear, I'm pretty sure I can fish up the binary offsets for the Regen powers in order to reduce their effectiveness periodically.
Correct. Without the IP, you may still have a melee-based character who uses a sword and is highly resistant to damage, but you'll never again run an ITF on your fully-IOed Kat/Inv Scrapper. It's the content that makes City of Heroes what it is, not just the mechanics.
On the bright side, static binaries means no more nerfs ;)
Have no fear, I'm pretty sure I can fish up the binary offsets for the Regen powers in order to reduce their effectiveness periodically.
O rly? Challenge accepted xD
That's my read on things, although getting CoH 1.5 in Unreal will be an undertaking in and of itself. The good thing about that though would be that it could be expanded upon (in theory), which a maintenance mode i23 can't.
O rly? Challenge accepted xD
Would someone be kind enough to PM and explain what SCoRE is. I think I know, and Ive found a blog site by that name associated with CoH. But if someone could be kind enough to hook me up with the 411 on this Id appreciate it ... see I no longer have CoH installed ...SCoRE (I thought it stood for Source Code Reverse Engineering?) is a rumoured attempt to reverse-engineer the source code of the game, and construct a functional server without buying or licensing anything. I know of no evidence that the project is even occurring, but it's something of an urban myth either way. The idea of reverse-engineering was brought up around the closure, but as it operates in very shady legal areas, any detailed discussion took place in private.
Purchase IP, license engine.
Let me come right out and admit that the apparent loss of the i24 perfection patch has hit me harder than expected. So let me ask, is there a way to get i24? I would move a lot of mountains to get i24 back. Is it a money thing? I am so in mourning for it I would donate quite a bit to get us that issue - perhaps other people would too.
Do we have to give up on i24 CoX now, or is there a way?
Regardless, this reverse-engineering would be gross copyright breach if used for a commercial purpose, and is in very unclear territory even if used free-of-charge and by not-for-profit organisations, depending on the jurisdiction it's judged in and the degree to which creating a private server for a no-longer-available game constitutes "fair use" of the IP and code, since the owner isn't actually losing subscription fees. There's very little precedent here.
Hmm... If you add a couple of pads to "fight club", is it now "kickboxing", a legitimate legal sport?In some jurisdictions, probably. Or you might need a ref and some waivers as well. The weird thing about doing stuff on the internet, though, is that you never know whose laws you'll be judged by for sure.
The last thing I ever wanted to see is City in maintenance mode. Doubly so with all data wiped.
To quote Stephen King's Pet Sematary: "Sometimes dead is better."
That's not how I read Nate's post. What it sounds like is the IP will be sold, lock, stock, and barrel, to a new "City of Heroes" company that will own it. They will be able to license the IP to others to use for various things (games, publishing, etc.), but they, in turn will be licensing the game engine from NCSoft so that a maintenance mode CoH game can be provided.
Obviously, not a part of the team myself, so I could very well be misunderstanding, but that is the way the OP reads to me.
EDIT: Specifically-
That latter paragraph, also, reads as if the spiritual successors may be exempt from licensing fees as part of this arrangement (though other successor games not in current negotiations probably would not).
Again, I may be reading too much between the lines.
I can't see how you interpreted any of that from what was written. I read it as this 3rd party company would license it from NCSoft and be able to lease it out. And saw nothing at all about exception from fees.
I did have a wry smile but the question wasn't really answered.
Is it the case that NCsoft have chosen not to release the source code or do they simply not have it anymore?
Negotiations are ongoing, and very little is off the table. However, we are not in the room and we aren't sure how unwilling NCSoft is to budge on it. For example, they may not have a binary of i24 - only source code for the patch. Thus, they'd have to give the team the full source code (something they are very unwilling to do, it seems) and allow the new company to compile the i24 server.
Forgive a no doubt really ignorant question, but why would they be so fierce about the source code for a game from 2004...? they cant possibly still be basing one of their current games off of it, this just seems kind of bonkers to me. How could that code be anything other than a curiosity in today's gaming world?Imagine a moment that CoH and, say, Lineage II share some key piece of code. Now, Lineage II is still in service in Asia, so this code, if sold, would cause a major problem for NCSoft in supporting their millions of customers in Asia. Now imagine CoH and Aion shared some other code. Then CoH and Guild Wars 2.... just how do you untangle the spiderweb of interconnected strands between all of these games which may or may not share code? NCSoft may not even know how tangled things are.
[Except to us, natch.]
That latter part was perhaps my reading into things, yes. As for the former part, check out this post (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,10284.msg158458.html#msg158458) from Nate.Ah ty I hadn't seen that part. But. who would own this spin off company?
SCoRE (I thought it stood for Source Code Reverse Engineering?) is a rumoured attempt to reverse-engineer the source code of the game, and construct a functional server without buying or licensing anything.
Imagine a moment that CoH and, say, Lineage II share some key piece of code. Now, Lineage II is still in service in Asia, so this code, if sold, would cause a major problem for NCSoft in supporting their millions of customers in Asia. Now imagine CoH and Aion shared some other code. Then CoH and Guild Wars 2.... just how do you untangle the spiderweb of interconnected strands between all of these games which may or may not share code? NCSoft may not even know how tangled things are.
Forgive a no doubt really ignorant question, but why would they be so fierce about the source code for a game from 2004...? they cant possibly still be basing one of their current games off of it, this just seems kind of bonkers to me. How could that code be anything other than a curiosity in today's gaming world?
[Except to us, natch.]
Thanks for the clarification, Downix {and again, just a general "THANK YOU"}
I guess for now its "The Holding Company"
(how about WHIP for We have IP)
There was more than one team. It stood for "Secret Cabal of Reverse Engineers". It was server-side simulation only, nothing to do with the client side, apart from changing the command-line to point to the new server.Well, you're talking out yer butt. Who are you again? ;) It *is* one team (but more than one person), and it *is* attempting to reverse engineer *the game*, not just the server. More than that is privileged information, and even *I* - as a Titan Mod - am not privy to most of it.
Ah ty I hadn't seen that part. But. who would own this spin off company?
Forgive a no doubt really ignorant question, but why would they be so fierce about the source code for a game from 2004...? they cant possibly still be basing one of their current games off of it, this just seems kind of bonkers to me. How could that code be anything other than a curiosity in today's gaming world?
[Except to us, natch.]
Gerhardt Eisenstadt.
The proposal as it stands right now (this is not a final form, just the current proposal on the table) is this:
...
The existing user database and characters are not part of this arrangement at this time, nor is the source code.
Right now, still discussing terms, ideas, limits. The challenges we have been given we stepped up for and handled. Likely there will be discussions and adjustments right up until the moment the deal is signed. The whole thing may fall apart. For all we know, everything done so far has been nothing but a delaying tactic so they can say once again that they tried to work with the community to no avail. But until such time that becomes clear, we will continue forward in good faith.
...migrate people off of the classic game engine before it finally becomes unsuitable (we expect this to happen around when Windows 9 is released, due to binary compatibility).
Gerhardt Eisenstadt.
I simply have no desire to pay for, or have faith in, a game that has no real future. so I probably wont return if pay to play is on the table, or anything in the market costs anything, which it most certainly will be the case since I know even running a game in maintenance mode isn't free.
A) Lol.
B) No. Nope. Nuh uh. Not even once. Niet. Nein.
-Just read Tony's post. Seriously, I'm not going to quote something that freaking long -IG
So would this spin off licensing company be a subsidiary of NCSoft?
And yet, would it not be the ultimate victory? Mwahahahahaaaa!
For those who do not know Korean business methods, it is considered highly rude to directly email someone, but to instead get an introduction from a third party business associate. This meant we had to find someone who was not part of NC Soft to formally introduce us to Mr. Yoon. Fortunately, we had two people who could do just that, a former NC West employee and a former co-worker of mine who had started a media company which works with NC Soft on developing properties for the Asian market.Thanks so much for all the effort.
For people worrying about "how long can a CoH 1.0 implementation last".This is heartening to read. My fondest hope was to get CoH running with someone who intended to keep it running.
As long as they can keep the servers stable, honestly, it's almost indefinitely.
There is, currently, NOTHING in the Win9 pipeline that looks to affect anything CoH could do AT ALL.
The biggest hurdle will be building a working game loader/patcher, as a certain amount of the game is primarily client-side stuff that CAN be accessed/worked with/fixed at will. Just so long as the server and client agree on the acceptable version number.
Since I'm not on the team that would be running CoH's maint. mode, I can't make promises on their behalf. But... I'm pretty sure the i23 server will run in perpetuity.That sounds even better. :)
I can't imagine a scenario where this happens. Too many people who are involved in process are too emotionally invested in it.And that is a great way to illustrate to everyone just how much you guys are us.
I'll say right not, I would fight tooth and nail and then some before I let that happen again. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Purchase IP, license engine.That helps me a lot. Thanks Downix.
There's a touch of misunderstanding going around, that moving to Unreal means that something about the gameplay will change. That's simply not true.Thanks Irish Girl...I was one of those who didn't quite understand this. Keeping the same gameplay for CoH 1.5 is huge to me....I'm officially very excited about seeing it now.
Is it likely that adjustments to certain things will be made during Beta? Yeah, just like during CoH. The devs would test, and adjust.
A wild TonyV appears! With some good points, no less.
I deliberately stayed out of the conversation for a while because I wanted to give everyone a chance to digest it and see which way the conversation steered. :)
So would this spin off licensing company be a subsidiary of NCSoft?From what we've heard, no. It would be formed by the consortium of buyers, and purchase the IP to CoH outright. It would license the server engine for maintenace mode from NCSoft. It would also issue licenses to each of the Plan Z games if their developers wanted/needed them. Part of this is possibly because more than just MWM is involved in this, and it simplifies the process if each interest can just take shares of City of Heroes Inc. based on their contribution to the purchase. Part of it is also that then for NCSoft, it's not another game studio buying their IP - it's just been cut loose to do its own thing, having made the company a reasonable sum in the process.
So would this spin off licensing company be a subsidiary of NCSoft?A subsidy, no. The specific ownership details are still very much up in the air. I know what my preference would be, but this is an area where we can expect NCSoft to have a lot of say in the particular legal structure. My goal (being very specific here, this is my personal goal) is to have this be a form of trust.
I just want to say something. This is partially an expansion of my last post on the previous page. But hear me out.
People on this thread and elsewhere seem to be focussed on the technical aspects and "when can I log in again"?
Issues with the game engine and source code and the like pale into insignificance compared to freeing the IP from NCSoft.
Read the following again:
Old clunky game engine? Incompatibility with Win 9?
DOESN'T MATTER.
It's the IDEAS and the Intellectual Property that is the real heart and soul of City of Heroes - and if THAT part of the deal goes through as described, then that part of the game - the concepts - the background stories - the characters - the NPCS - the visual design...
THAT PART will have been put in the hands of people who actually CARE about it!
Eventually the game engine will HAVE to change, one way or another. But moving it to Unreal Engine - and allowing other games to be part of the City of Heroes story and reference it..
GOOD GOD... That's HUGE.
Do you know what this means? SERIOUSLY? Have you thought it out to the extreme?
I just have. And it boggles my mind.
Imagine not one or two - but perhaps a DOZEN games - all in the same overall universe story-wise.
IF... IF this is not just NCSoft yanking people around again. If they really allow the IP to go. Then game engines don't matter. CODE doesn't matter.
The Story and the World of City of Heroes can live on even if the original game engine is (or has to be) discarded.
City of Heroes?
Imagine WORLD OF HEROES as a FRANCHISE.
"The CoH IP would be spun to its own company..." And who, pray tell, would own this company?There are a lot of options for setting up a company which makes "ownership" a complex and confusing thing. Is it set up as a standard IP Holding Company or as an Active Trust? Just two of the dozens of options on the table. I'd rather put this down when it is more clear what direction things will be going in.
And even the 2012 version of it would be a monstrocity.
I'm not directly involved in the talks with NCSoft, but from what I understand the source is completely off the table, and many of the tools required simply don't exist anymore.
This is where Revival comes in. The plan is kind of...to replace CoH with it. CoH 1.5/CoH 2 if you will. Same setting, same stories you've all known and loved. New engine, new updates, new stories for you to, hopefully, come to love.
On the windows 9 topic... It will prolly run the client, if nothing else with some form of Comparability Mode.
P.S.: I'm so not good at 'wait and see'!
I dunno, maybe he's actually tested the classic game client on Windows 9, since there are beta versions of it out there. But if not, I would be inclined to strongly suspect that the classic game client would work fine on Windows 9, just as it does on Windows 8, Windows 7, Windows Vista, and Windows XP. To my knowledge, there aren't any binary incompatibilities unless you try to play on a different platform (such as Windows RT), and in my experience, it is highly unusual for Microsoft to do anything to break backwards compatibility to that extent. I may be wrong and end up eating those words, so as I always ask people, take my secondhand information worth a grain of salt. But I've seen a lot of posts in here about how once Windows 9 comes out, the classic CoH game client will be toast, and I just don't think that's correct and I encourage people to not worry so much about that.
I dunno, maybe he's actually tested the classic game client on Windows 9, since there are beta versions of it out there. But if not, I would be inclined to strongly suspect that the classic game client would work fine on Windows 9, just as it does on Windows 8, Windows 7, Windows Vista, and Windows XP. To my knowledge, there aren't any binary incompatibilities unless you try to play on a different platform (such as Windows RT), and in my experience, it is highly unusual for Microsoft to do anything to break backwards compatibility to that extent. I may be wrong and end up eating those words, so as I always ask people, take my secondhand information worth a grain of salt. But I've seen a lot of posts in here about how once Windows 9 comes out, the classic CoH game client will be toast, and I just don't think that's correct and I encourage people to not worry so much about that.
I think it ended up going in a 'People asking a lot of questions that I hopefully answered well' direction. I wish I had answers to give to the questions that are left open, unfortunately even I'm at 'Wait and see' on those.
P.S.: I'm so not good at 'wait and see'!
First off, kudos to everyone involved with getting this far in the negotiations. Whatever else may happen, you have my (at least) thanks and gratitude.If the old Mac client still works, it'll be fine. The negotiations are pretty strictly server-side. But if new OSX updates have broken the client (and it's hard to tell if they have without a server to test on), then there won't be many tools to update it.
One thing I've noticed in all the talk is there is no discussion about whether CiOX, COH or whichever successor(s) emerge will be Mac-compatible or supported. It may be too early to say, but is that anticipated? (And if I've missed that discussion, please forgive me).
(Wrote the person who came to COX because I could play it on my Mac).
Thanks again!
The main thing I'm getting from this, with regards to your Atlas Park Revival project and CoH 1.5, is that oh boy, you are REALLY going to need some help!
No one could possibly hope to code CoH 1.5, solo, in any achievable time scale. Not for the kind of end result the player base would expect.
Well, I wasn't planning on staying solo! Especially since I code one BUGGY Hello World.
First off, kudos to everyone involved with getting this far in the negotiations. Whatever else may happen, you have my (at least) thanks and gratitude.
One thing I've noticed in all the talk is there is no discussion about whether CiOX, COH or whichever successor(s) emerge will be Mac-compatible or supported. It may be too early to say, but is that anticipated? (And if I've missed that discussion, please forgive me).
(Wrote the person who came to COX because I could play it on my Mac).
Thanks again!
Yes I think that without the source code, its just like reviving the game for a little while so you can say your final goodbyes... But I wonder if the source code is completely off the table, or is it just not part of the current talks?Bones! Revive the prisoner... Jim it'll kill him! He is dead anyway.
Imagine a moment that CoH and, say, Lineage II share some key piece of code. Now, Lineage II is still in service in Asia, so this code, if sold, would cause a major problem for NCSoft in supporting their millions of customers in Asia. Now imagine CoH and Aion shared some other code. Then CoH and Guild Wars 2.... just how do you untangle the spiderweb of interconnected strands between all of these games which may or may not share code? NCSoft may not even know how tangled things are.Couldn't you just sign a piece of paper saying we wont sue you no matter what?
While it is still way to early to know how this will pan out, but some of the fees paid on the 'maintenance mode' I23 'classic" CoH might be used to pay expenses used to make the Unreal 4 "CoH 1.5" version. Particularly if those two are being managed by the same company.I am curious. Would we have the ability to edit and add content to the CoH 1.5 version?
I am curious. Would we have the ability to edit and add content to the CoH 1.5 version?
This is what seems likeliest to me. Regardless of anything else, it's a major MMO which means it has to have been fairly standards compliant. Generally the older games that didn't play fast and loose with things to try and get something running or squeeze more performance do just fine under compat mode.Lets be honest it would be SUICIDE for Microsoft to screw this like this up. They need a STUD OS and this would NOT be a stud OS... I hope they arnt that dumb... they might not get away with it this time.
That would kinda be the whole point...I mean just because it is compatible with windows 9 ETC. doesn't mean it is editable ;)
I mean just because it is compatible with windows 9 ETC. doesn't mean it is editable ;)
It's being written from scratch... Of course it's editable...
If everything goes as planned you could always turn to crowd funding on kickstarter and the community i'm sure will help one way or the other, i know i definitely would like to help out in some shape or form, even if it's holding a banner outside starbucks at 7am to get people to play this game haha!
It's being written from scratch... Of course it's editable...Well my bad it hasn't been super clear I guess.
*Normally* on a technical basis that'd be pretty easy. This isn't a normal situation, tho...
Yeah that's what I figured. Personally, I'd have no problem starting from scratch anyway. The whole point of any game is to play it after all.
Purchase IP, license engine.
Every time I read this thread title I think "And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for these meddling kids".
So, if I understand this all correctly:
City of Heroes as an Intellectual Property gets purchased by a company/trust/group/whatever.
Said group licenses the i23 game from NCSoft and runs maintenance mode servers.
Said group licenses a design studio to port existing City of Heroes to a new engine (U4).
Said group also (possibly) licenses the various successor projects, allowing them to use City of Heroes IP in their work.
At an indeterminate point in time, i23 game closes (license from NCSoft is no longer required) and City of Heroes in U4 becomes the sole City of Heroes game available, in a modern engine, with continuing development.
Some of these stages may occur concurrently.
If I'm right, can I get a HELL YES?
Can someone enlighten me to as what the source code would be exactly? Is that different from the game engine?
Can someone enlighten me to as what the source code would be exactly? Is that different from the game engine?
That MWM somehow misused their funding to switch game engines from Unreal Engine 3 to Unreal Engine 4. And that this transition set them back irreparably.
Unreal Engine 3 has zero MMO support. Meaning that MWM would have had to either create their own code for handling the MMO portion of the game, or contract a third party to do so. Such would have taken an unknown amount of time. Unreal Engine 4 on the other hand has built in MMO support. This is why when MWM was offered the chance to upgrade their licenses to the newer version they did so enthusiastically. As this would be one less thing to have to work out.
At an indeterminate point in time, i23 game closes (license from NCSoft is no longer required) and City of Heroes in U4 becomes the sole City of Heroes game available, in a modern engine, with continuing development.
Have no fear, I'm pretty sure I can fish up the binary offsets for the Regen powers in order to reduce their effectiveness periodically.
Here is an example pic of Atlas Park in Unreal Engine. http://apr.pc-logix.com/uploads/gallery/album_1/gallery_1_1_14817.jpg
I much prefer this picture. 8)
(See spoiler)Spoiler for Hidden:
Can someone enlighten me to as what the source code would be exactly? Is that different from the game engine?So, when you write a program you use a programming language, like C# or Python. This lets you use a series of preset commands, and to define your own commands for later use. The source code is basically a text file that contains a whole bunch of words and punctuation in that language that says what you want the program to do under any and all circumstances. But computers aren't very good with words. They need their instructions in as simple a form as possible, which is called "machine code" or a "binary file". Also an "executable file", because the computer can just do what it says. A compiler takes the text file full of words, and turns it into binary instructions the processor can understand. But editing machine code is very difficult, especially for something as big as a full game. Some people can do it, but it's slow, laborious, and prone to devastating errors. Doing enough work to add entire powersets (like adding i24 would involve) is theoretically possible, but the timescale would be immense. Like, decades or more.
That MWM somehow misused their funding to switch game engines from Unreal Engine 3 to Unreal Engine 4. And that this transition set them back irreparably.
Unreal Engine 3 has zero MMO support. Meaning that MWM would have had to either create their own code for handling the MMO portion of the game, or contract a third party to do so. Such would have taken an unknown amount of time. Unreal Engine 4 on the other hand has built in MMO support. This is why when MWM was offered the chance to upgrade their licenses to the newer version they did so enthusiastically. As this would be one less thing to have to work out.
Irish_Girl can correct me if I am incorrect in any of my understandings of this project. ;D
Windows 9: Muffin Edition?
I much prefer this picture. 8)
(See spoiler)Spoiler for Hidden:
Marvel Heroes uses unreal engine 3 and it is an arpg mmo, and it has become really popular and tons of fun now, so to say UE3 has zero mmo support is well wrong.
I much prefer this picture. 8)
(See spoiler)Spoiler for Hidden:
That was the picture I was actually looking for.... ;D
I so want to go there... ;)
For us, it was far FAR less time and effort to move to Unreal Engine 4, than it would have to try and fight with UE3. Plus, the engine is just SO much easier to work with.
;D Yeah, It's pretty. You guys should see it in-game. hehe.
;D Yeah, It's pretty. You guys should see it in-game. hehe.
Is that what the team has been proving to NCsoft :)
So, for the curious, would it be possible to enlighten us as to the current state of progress in APR? Do you have any zones "finished"? Can you walk around in any of them? Is there any kind of character creation in the works?
Also, just as an aside, are you re-creating the map geometries from scratch, or are you importing it from the game files?
I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff...I really should write all this down. heh
Its great to see that Nc Soft is actually talking and open to possibly selling the IP, but we have a long way to go still. I applaud everyone who has worked on this to #SaveCoH.
I am still hopeful that somehow character data can be rescued. One of my biggest concerns if character data is not available are that many veterans will not return to the game. I was thinking about this last night and im coming from my own personal view and I know the shared views of others.. Its twelve years later since the launch of City of Heroes. I am not the person I was then. I am married now.. with a family.. different responsibilities that require more time. I dont have the time to sit and play hours and hours and hours on end like I did previously. And in all honesty I dont want to play the same content over and over and over AGAIN that I already have. If I had to start over and remake every character and earn and purchase all those enhancements all over again I just dont know if I would want to do that. Would I remake everyone.. no.. but they are some core character that I would and even those are 25-30 plus characters..
And having no idea what will happen to the maintenance mode long term or if those character will be ported over to CoH 1.5... Its a very challenging situation.. I know several people in my SG that I have remained in contact with feel the same way..
Everyone of us will ABSOLUTELY play if/when the games comes back. The question is will they support the game like they did in years past.. will they stay long term..
At this point im taking the Tony V position more seriously.. be patient.. and wait until everything unfolds..
Neat!
It's fascinating stuff, too! How much work was involved in the Town Hall building, as an example?
TL;DR: City Hall is my most hated object in Atlas Park now.
Well, in that case... I'm sure I read somewhere that UE4 makes destructible objects easy to do... ;)
Personally, if I'd known there was a discussion in progress with NCsoft, I wouldn't have then gone out and asked folks for money to fund the spiritual successor of a game that I was actively (but quietly) trying to buy back. That alone has all sorts of red flags - but I digress.
For the EQ and WoW private servers I have knowledge of, it's replacing a single file, or even just manually editing an IP or two in the file already on your machine to point at the new servers. Pretty easy stuff if you have more computer knowledge than the average grandma. Haven't poked around in my i23 install but I can't see it being drastically different for CoH.Literally running the executable with an extra parameter. Can be solved with a custom launcher easily.
Would someone be kind enough to PM and explain what SCoRE is. I think I know, and Ive found a blog site by that name associated with CoH.Secret Cabal of Reverse Engineers.
I don't know exactly what APR/cox 1.5 really is, or how they are moving to unreal engine. Are they just building it from scratch and including the old environment and missions etc?Yes.
My question is, if the binaries are turned over, and the IP rights are licensed, does that give the new device group the ability to legally reverse engineer the server? Would that even be worthwhile? I don't know if reverse engineering would make Cox 1.5 easier or not. If nothing else it could at least give them the ability to do updates to the original game.It would not affect CoX 1.5 much if at all. If it becomes legal to reverse engineer the server and there is a live instance, I believe it would aid SCoRE's efforts quite a bit.
I'm totally ok with this, but my question based on that is.... Does that mean when Win 9 is released, the maintenance mode CoH is effectively shut down? Or, does it mean that the maintenance mode will run in perpetuity and Win 9 users simply won't be able to play the game? (I say this because I don't plan on upgrading to Win 9....also, some of us play CoH on OS X)...The latter, as far a I understand.
tony one issue that been posted is a red flag to me. they posted that coh would be in maintenance mode till windows 9 comes out.No, they didn't. What Nate said is that they are expecting Windows 9 to have compatibility problems with the game. If that is the case, it will become an issue by the time Win 9 gets widely adopted (unless you keep an XP/ 7 / 8 system around), but by then CoH 1.5 should be available as a replacement. I'm guessing there may be some sort of second sunset after the majority of the player base switches to CoH 1.5
So for those asking what is APR? :o
APR stands for Atlas Park Revival. What is Atlas Park Revival? :-\
Atlas Park Revival is Irish_Girl's project to take the existing geometries...the meshes as it were of the existing environment of City of Heroes and recreate them using Unreal Engine. To what end? To create the environment for an updated City of Heroes game with a newer game engine. So while the Issue23 build of City of Heroes will not be able to be updated at all due to lack of the original source code. APR will be using a license from the COT (City of Titans) build, which uses Unreal Engine 4, to make the next generation of City of Heroes. Same COH IP, similar COH game play, updated graphics and capabilities. What is being dubbed City of Heroes 1.5. This version will be able to be updated with new content, power sets, story arcs etc.
Irish_Girl can correct me if I am incorrect in any of my understandings of this project. ;D
Here is the link to the webpage. http://apr.pc-logix.com/
Here is an example pic of Atlas Park in Unreal Engine. http://apr.pc-logix.com/uploads/gallery/album_1/gallery_1_1_14817.jpg
Here is a video done in Unreal Engine. http://youtu.be/Bg_xIAekCys
I think you're mostly wise in this instance, apart from one part.
The "Classic COH" servers wouldn't necessarily have to shut down at any point at all for the U4 engined version, though I suspect it eventually would.
Amazing work and outstanding effort. Please be assured that even if some vets like myself seem absent and uninvolved, we remain attentive and excited. I don't care if I have to start at level one with absolutely nothing, I'll be there in my tights ready to throw fire.
Love.
Question on "binary compatibility" with Windows 9. Is there more detail on what the incompatibility is?
Question on "binary compatibility" with Windows 9. Is there more detail on what the incompatibility is?There is as far as we know no actual incompatibility discovered yet. The issue is that when there is one - because that will eventually happen, if not with plain Win 9 then with Win 9 SP 1 (or whatever SP-equivalent terminology is used) or whatever comes after that - there won't be any way to patch the game and fix it.
Remember, the engine is different from the game. The engine is simply what renders and runs the game. the rules and art and everything, are IP.
There is as far as we know no actual incompatibility discovered yet. The issue is that when there is one - because that will eventually happen, if not with plain Win 9 then with Win 9 SP 1 (or whatever SP-equivalent terminology is used) or whatever comes after that - there won't be any way to patch the game and fix it.Another thing is how long will it take to get people to move to Win 9?
I am curious. Would we have the ability to edit and add content to the CoH 1.5 version?
So for those asking what is APR? :o"Similar game play" sounds more vague than what Irish Girl posted yesterday.
APR stands for Atlas Park Revival. What is Atlas Park Revival? :-\
Atlas Park Revival is Irish_Girl's project to take the existing geometries...the meshes as it were of the existing environment of City of Heroes and recreate them using Unreal Engine. To what end? To create the environment for an updated City of Heroes game with a newer game engine. So while the Issue23 build of City of Heroes will not be able to be updated at all due to lack of the original source code. APR will be using a license from the COT (City of Titans) build, which uses Unreal Engine 4, to make the next generation of City of Heroes. Same COH IP, similar COH game play, updated graphics and capabilities. What is being dubbed City of Heroes 1.5. This version will be able to be updated with new content, power sets, story arcs etc.
I suppose I could be convinced to bring some APR-related enlightenment to the masses.I would be willing to watch a video of you walking around in those zones. Not boring at all to me. :D
Let's see here... Zone wise...
Atlas Park - The zone with the most work into it, by far. Perhaps 70% finished. All the streets are laid out, many of the buildings are in place, Trees are even starting to be put down in places.
Steel Canyon - 20-30% completed
Galaxy City - 20-30% completed
Independence Port - 10% completed
Founders Falls - 20-30% completed
Talos Island 10-20%
Perez Park - 10%
"The Hollows" - 10%
Sirens Call - 5%
Pocket D - 50%
and of course, the zone we unveiled our move to Unreal Engine 4 with...
Ouroboros - 95%
Technically, I can walk around any of the zones atm. I'm nothing but a Rikti Drone, and I've got no powers or anything.
Since we're going to be using a version of the City of Titans UE4 build, more work on character creation and powers and what have you is dependent on their work schedule. Not that APR is lacking in work in the mean time!
The geometries from the meshes are currently mostly pulled from Legacy CoH, but rarely are they un-modified. Many meshes have simply had to be re-built from scratch for one reason or another.
Don't even get me started on textures. -shakes head- 64x64 textures for the sides of buildings might have cut it in 2004.
I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff...I really should write all this down. heh
I see a lot of possibilities and it is great that the team is thinking out of the box.That's very cool....this would be a reason to think the game is never going away again.
For those worried about the Original CoH shutting down - this opens the possibility that you may be able to fund your own server. If you have funds once the game is in escrow and you can load that snapshot onto a server - nothing would stop you from leasing your own copy and hosting a server.
I am still hopeful that somehow character data can be rescued. One of my biggest concerns if character data is not available are that many veterans will not return to the game. I was thinking about this last night and im coming from my own personal view and I know the shared views of others.. Its twelve years later since the launch of City of Heroes. I am not the person I was then. I am married now.. with a family.. different responsibilities that require more time. I dont have the time to sit and play hours and hours and hours on end like I did previously. And in all honesty I dont want to play the same content over and over and over AGAIN that I already have. If I had to start over and remake every character and earn and purchase all those enhancements all over again I just dont know if I would want to do that. Would I remake everyone.. no.. but they are some core character that I would and even those are 25-30 plus characters..I just ran into this issue this morning. I used to play with a married couple and we hung out on Skype while we played. They, like me, played almost exclusively with lvl 50 characters. We ran the various TF's together mostly. The guy was way more into tricking out his characters with purples than I was. We used to get into discussions about the merits of frankenslotting vs all purple sets. He always went with purple sets no matter what. Anyway...
Well, I wasn't planning on staying solo! Especially since I code one BUGGY Hello World.
I kept him up to date on all this and sent him a message last night with what we just heard. He just came out and said he wouldn't come back without his characters. (He had a LOT more 50s than I did so would be losing much more) That's two accounts lost right there.
"Similar game play" sounds more vague than what Irish Girl posted yesterday.
I kept him up to date on all this and sent him a message last night with what we just heard. He just came out and said he wouldn't come back without his characters. (He had a LOT more 50s than I did so would be losing much more) That's two accounts lost right there.
"Similar game play" sounds more vague than what Irish Girl posted yesterday.
I am curious. Would we have the ability to edit and add content to the CoH 1.5 version?
I know many folks still use WinXp and Windows 7. Developers want to future proof their product - users tend to hold on to the old until it won't do what they want it to.
So when I got a new PC, I went with Windows 7. I then proceeded to bludgeon it with a half a dozen programs so that the bloody thing looked and worked like Windows XP.
I went kicking and screaming and had to be dragged from Windows XP by the near total lack of support/drivers for XP64.
So when I got a new PC, I went with Windows 7. I then proceeded to bludgeon it with a half a dozen programs so that the bloody thing looked and worked like Windows XP.
Like the changed Start > All Programs functionality, screw the new arrangement, I'm working off the better part of two decades worth of muscle memory. That was the first thing I changed. :P
A bit of a short sighted view, really. Sure, he's lost his stuff, BUT, right now all his stuff is gone anyway. In fact, we might ALL just consider all of that stuff deleted and gone for ever. I don't see that as a reason not to go back to the game though.. After all, it wasn't the stuff we loved, it was the game and the community, wasn't it?He's a nice guy. No real reason to insult him. The definition of "the game" is not the same for everyone. Some think of it as just the blank state of the game, others see it as what they personally built it to be.
If love of the stuff was more important than the love of the game, then I guess he never really loved the game anyway.
Time will tell. After putting time and effort into something it's understandable that his immediate reaction is to wall up and not want to return. After a few days or weeks he may soften up and be willing to think about starting over. What did he say about CoH2?That may indeed be the case. He didn't comment about CoH2 (or even CoH 1.5). I plan to keep in contact with them since we played together so much.
Even if all the game mechanics are copied exactly in CoH1.5 (which is the intent), it will STILL only play "similarly".That's true and of course the reason some people stop playing games.
The only way you'll get identical gameplay, is in the original game, and even THAT has changed over the years. Really, read the box. You'll find similar words to "Gameplay experience may change over time" printed on there.
There's a touch of misunderstanding going around, that moving to Unreal means that something about the gameplay will change. That's simply not true.That sounds like the goal is much more than "similar".
Is it likely that adjustments to certain things will be made during Beta? Yeah, just like during CoH. The devs would test, and adjust.
A bit of a short sighted view, really. Sure, he's lost his stuff, BUT, right now all his stuff is gone anyway. In fact, we might ALL just consider all of that stuff deleted and gone for ever. I don't see that as a reason not to go back to the game though.. After all, it wasn't the stuff we loved, it was the game and the community, wasn't it?
If love of the stuff was more important than the love of the game, then I guess he never really loved the game anyway.
For those worried about the Original CoH shutting down - this opens the possibility that you may be able to fund your own server. If you have funds once the game is in escrow and you can load that snapshot onto a server - nothing would stop you from leasing your own copy and hosting a server.
He's a nice guy. No real reason to insult him. The definition of "the game" is not the same for everyone. Some think of it as just the blank state of the game, others see it as what they personally built it to be.
Since we're going to be using a version of the City of Titans UE4 build, more work on character creation and powers and what have you is dependent on their work schedule.
I see a lot of possibilities and it is great that the team is thinking out of the box.
For those worried about the Original CoH shutting down - this opens the possibility that you may be able to fund your own server. If you have funds once the game is in escrow and you can load that snapshot onto a server - nothing would stop you from leasing your own copy and hosting a server....
I didn't insult him. If you took it that way, well... All I can say is it wasn't intended to be one, at all.He did indeed love the game. It's just that the game as he knew it is gone if his characters are gone.
He did indeed love the game. It's just that the game as he knew it is gone if his characters are gone.
"Similar game play" sounds more vague than what Irish Girl posted yesterday.
Well, if this all even happens (which, given NCSoft's prior track record, still isn't that likely), it sounds like your friend won't be playing the original CoH. That's fine. It's understandable. But it's his loss.Important to remember that "his loss" happens whether he comes back or not if his characters are gone.
That MWM somehow misused their funding to switch game engines from Unreal Engine 3 to Unreal Engine 4. And that this transition set them back irreparably.
Unreal Engine 3 has zero MMO support. Meaning that MWM would have had to either create their own code for handling the MMO portion of the game, or contract a third party to do so. Such would have taken an unknown amount of time. Unreal Engine 4 on the other hand has built in MMO support. This is why when MWM was offered the chance to upgrade their licenses to the newer version they did so enthusiastically. As this would be one less thing to have to work out.
Marvel Heroes uses unreal engine 3 and it is an arpg mmo, and it has become really popular and tons of fun now, so to say UE3 has zero mmo support is well wrong.
I guess I'm not really understanding this point from everything, and it's probably just my own density. What I am assuming is that the basic way the powers are chosen and enhanced is identical between CoH and CoT. In other words, you choose Hover, then you six slot it, then you put enhancements in it - but not six of the same kind because, you know, that would be weird. What does it mean for APR to use CoT's build?No, CoT's power system is different, more flexible. The adapting will be up to APR.
There are varying degrees of optimism as to how closely CoH can be mechanically emulated - will your level 50 with the same slots slotted while killing Skullz:I do expect it to look different (that's part of the appeal right there). If the animations aren't exactly alike that won't bother me. I mostly just want all the powers to work the same way. Baddies falling down a different way on my ice slick will still be awesome. And if I'm still slotting everything the same way after crafting the enhancement the same way, I'm fine.
* be the same play
* feel like the same play
* feel close enough to the same play that only certain build combinations will feel slighted **
* feel close enough even though nothing is perfect but most everyone is happy
* Look, you get Paragon City back, everything else is cake.
Most likely it will be the middle three barring some documentation coming to light that I've been told doesn't exist.
This completely discounts the possibility that the 1.5 ( really not keen on that labelling ) will be City of Titans game engine, set in the CoH universe(s) which would be somewhere between the latter two on that list.
** Let's be realistic, this will happen even when the i23 servers come back up. :)
I am also left with a HUGE question...will this new release/version of the game still be playable on the Mac?
I am left stunned at this news. I am excited on the one hand and yet on the other a bit disappointed. It is disappointing to think that the game will not evolve and continue to be expanded and disappointing to think the game will once again end at some point due to the release of Windows 9.Something tells me the OP should be updated with answers to the questions and answers throughout the thread.
I am also left with a HUGE question...will this new release/version of the game still be playable on the Mac?
Any reservations/disappointments aside...I am happy we may be playing again someday.
Question on "binary compatibility" with Windows 9. Is there more detail on what the incompatibility is?
"Similar game play" sounds more vague than what Irish Girl posted yesterday.
Basically there's some noise about Intel pushing an IA-128 architecture and having a Win9 version available.Don't be hating on windows 8!
If that's the case, you probably wouldn't see IA-32 (32-bit Windows compatibility). But the number of people running 128-bit Windows up front is going to be RIDICULOUSLY small (assuming it's a non-zero number to begin with).
For anyone running a 32-bit or 64-bit version of Win9, at least at this juncture, there's nothing in the pipeline that should interfere with CoH.
I've been following Win9 fairly carefully (as I'd like to avoid the crap that sank Win8). And, thus far, I haven't seen anything else that should be problematic to the operations of CoH.
I am also left with a HUGE question...will this new release/version of the game still be playable on the Mac?
Don't be hating on windows 8!
Yes. And Marvel had to basically build all their MMO structure from scratch, because UE3 is primarily an FPS/TPS engine.
I also balk at the word "licensing" as it was used a couple of time. Licenses can always expire; contracts can be broken. Will NCSoft now have some kind of hold or say in the successors if they choose to incorporate aspects of CoH into their games?
I know many folks still use WinXp and Windows 7."Still" nothing. I only switched to Win 7 this year because I replaced my old desktop. :p
I really wish that were the case, but if they're buying the IP and only leasing the engine I really don't see how The Holding Company would have the ability to legally provide the server snapshot.Sub-leasing is a thing. It depends on the lease terms from NCSoft, obviously.
No, CoT's power system is different, more flexible. The adapting will be up to APR.
Yeah, I was curious about this as well. My understanding was that the powersets are very different and not locked to any specific role. Not sure how you would create a COH fire/fire blaster in APR without reworking a lot of the avatar creation system to limit selections. I think gameplay style is likely to be quite different if it is just a straight port from CoT to APR without some serious modding of the engine. But there is no way for us on the outside looking in to know.You can make a new UI which does the job, as the results are under the hood
I would like to address some other concerns. One. That Missing Worlds Media is using funds from the Kickstarter for the new holding company purchasing the COH Intellectual Property. This is not so. Funds from the Kickstarter raised for City of Titans are designated for City of Titans. New funds will need to be raised separately at some point for the COH revival should the deal with NCSoft get approved.
That MWM somehow misused their funding to switch game engines from Unreal Engine 3 to Unreal Engine 4. And that this transition set them back irreparably.
Unreal Engine 3 has zero MMO support. Meaning that MWM would have had to either create their own code for handling the MMO portion of the game, or contract a third party to do so. Such would have taken an unknown amount of time. Unreal Engine 4 on the other hand has built in MMO support. This is why when MWM was offered the chance to upgrade their licenses to the newer version they did so enthusiastically. As this would be one less thing to have to work out.
As to the setbacks...that has to do with the character rig on which our avatars will be built upon. MWM was a little too ambitious with the amount of sockets the character rigs could hold and to how many pieces would make up the rig, and where their seams connected the pieces together would look and work in their game engine. Some of the seams did not move properly once the rig was in motion. Too many sockets used up too many resources leading to instability.
It is my understanding that they are on the third iteration of the character rig. Once all the kinks are worked out progress will proceed. While this sets back the avatar builder somewhat it does not affect other portions of the game such as the background world building, lore, or art assets being created. There are multiple paths all being worked on simultaneously.
Just because other Kickstarter projects have failed does not mean that this project has to fail. As with any project their is a risk of failure. There is also the possibility of success. I prefer to be enthusiastically supportive of City of Titans and why I have contributed to the Kickstarter campaign. If they start a new Kickstarter to revive City Of Heroes, I will contribute to that as well. We can all be naysayers and be negative and say that all of this is a pipe dream and give up our hopes or we can be positive and look to a brighter tomorrow. I prefer to do the latter. Nuff said.
That's been asked, and answered, a least a dozen times since last night...
You can make a new UI which does the job, as the results are under the hood
Either it will feel like CoH or it won't. I plan to find out. Knowing they are going for the same feel is important to me.
I was commenting that "similar game play" sounds more like what CoT is going for. That's different than what Irish Girl said:That sounds like the goal is much more than "similar".
Overall, I am still quite interested in 1.5. Having the old system back with a shiny facelift would be pretty darn fantastic.
I simply think it's a decent OS with pathetically broken UI that doesn't belong on anything other than a tablet.
Say what?
Windows 9: Muffin Edition?
LOL, another one that has not heard of Startisback and other apps, that bring the start button back.
And prolly not even tried Windows 8.
You can make a new UI which does the job, as the results are under the hood
I guess I'm not really understanding this point from everything, and it's probably just my own density. What I am assuming is that the basic way the powers are chosen and enhanced is identical between CoH and CoT. In other words, you choose Hover, then you six slot it, then you put enhancements in it - but not six of the same kind because, you know, that would be weird. What does it mean for APR to use CoT's build?
I've tried it and also tried three different programs that bring the start menu and desktop back, and I still don't care for it. I think it's a FABULOUS tablet interface (and if I can ever afford the Surface Pro 3, I'll certainly have Win 8.1 on it), but between Win 7 and 8, Win 7 is the clear winner for desktop users--especially for desktop users like me who own hundreds of PC games (ranging from 1998 releases to today) and have gotten them all to somehow finally work on Win 7. Sorry, but I won't be migrating over to 8 anytime in the near (or far) future. I'm happy you like it, but it's not everything to everyone.
I think an FAQ sticky for this would be really helpful.
I've tried it and also tried three different programs that bring the start menu and desktop back, and I still don't care for it. I think it's a FABULOUS tablet interface (and if I can ever afford the Surface Pro 3, I'll certainly have Win 8.1 on it), but between Win 7 and 8, Win 7 is the clear winner for desktop users--especially for desktop users like me who own hundreds of PC games (ranging from 1998 releases to today) and have gotten them all to somehow finally work on Win 7. Sorry, but I won't be migrating over to 8 anytime in the near (or far) future. I'm happy you like it, but it's not everything to everyone.
Actually theres a lot more that can be said on the points you raised (although I admire your ability to gloss over any and all criticism with a stroke of the Rainbow Brite wand):
1) MWM didnt know Unreal 3 engine wasnt MMO-tech friendly (at least that reason wasnt clearly stated when they announced the switch to UE4 which came *after* the Kickstarter campaign had already successfully concluded. If they knew prior to the campaign that UE3 wasnt the right tool but they went ahead with marketing the campaign as a UE3 tool (while *also* knowing that they had jumpstarted a renew discussion with NCsoft to buy back the CoH IP) well, that opens up a whole new can of worms. That said, I think your spin on these events very unlikely and/or didnt happen. What I think is more likely is that the MWM team made the decision to switch to UE4 later (and post Kickstarter award) because the UE team saw theyd gotten $600k cash in the Kickstarter campaign and wanted a piece of that action so why not make the suggestion to the team to upgrade?
2) MWM isnt a fully-staffed, self-reliant resource company; it is (or was) a woman-owned, small-business and loosely organized start-up company that is completely dependent on its volunteers to get the job done. How a company dependent on volunteers to get one project up and running (CoT) can suddenly think themselves successfully aligned/fully staffed (albeit with part-time volunteers) and resourced to take on a *second* MMO-driven product (even if its CoH revived) using a second and wholly separate fundraising opportunity without publicly acknowledging how theyre going to pay for the pre-negotiated doable rate that NCsoft is supposedly comfortable with (but then there goes Warcabbit saying theyll need fundraising for new servers, networking, etc. on top of producing the money that actually *buys* the IP itself) thats not a company with good business sense or a detailed 5-year plan. Thats a bunch of guys flying by the seat of their pants trying to wing this (and maybe take some cash/bonus IT equipment/career development training home on the side, or hopefully get bought out by a bigger game developer/publisher down the road which is another great way to cash in).
3) Like everyone here, I love CoH and I *want* to believe that the IP can be purchased, the engine licensed, and everything will be happy, hunky dorey come login day but thats a lot of blind faith to have in one company (let alone a volunteer-based company) and Im just not that naive (stupid? yes; naive? no...). Opportunities for fiscal mismanagement come fast and often (even when started with the best of intentions) and thats not cause to always see everything branded Save CoH as only a good thing. In theory, yes its great news; in practical execution, those is had better be dotted and every T crossed on the business operations plan before any money ever changes hands.
Bottom line: theres good reason to be happy if NCsoft is opening the door to discussions again (regardless of whomever they speak to and its sad to think Brian Claytons team came so very close only to lose out because they didnt want to license the engine -- *if* that was the real reason why their negotiations fell apart) but theres also good reason to be cautious, reasonably skeptical and ask the tough, sobering questions which can still keep these projects on the road to potential future success. This is a publicly funded initiative, after all, so while folks can yell in another thread YEAH, BUT WHAT DID YOU DO TO HELP?! the answer is we helped contribute the money required to make (COT/COH) happen (which you couldn't and still can't do without the fan base's financial support) ---- and now I say to the MWM team good job getting on getting NCsoft to open this door again; good luck developing not one but two MMO IPs simultaneously with a part-time volunteer staff, and most importantly --- in the immortal words of RuPaul herself
...DONT F*CK IT UP.
Please guys... This is not the place for that particular argument...
My issues are now Irishgirl is about to be thrown to the sharks. I hope she can get some direction on a business manager because in my dealings on the original project 3 or 4 very unscrupulous people tried to get a foot in the door. She will need help in programming but also with business acumen.
I'm just curious as to why there is no source code out there. I recently graduated from college and every bit of code I wrote, I kept, and that includes code from members of team projects that I was involved with. I would assume that I am not the only one who does this.
Gratz on the graduation. And I'm not a part of this project, just a well wisher.
And yeah, I kept all my code while I went through college too.
Several problems with your concept though.
I'm presuming that the CoH code is gagillions of lines long considering it's been being developed for 8+ years. Much of which was probably black boxed so the original developers know only the X code and later developers know Y code.
Normally any code you write while working at a company is the sole property of said company and you can get sued if you used it outside of that company.
And the code may be still in use through a different application. NCSoft may or may not know this and wants to err of the safe side. It happens all the time.
When I was working for Sprint, I saw pieces of code used for several different projects and legacy code that was still standing from the 70s and 80s. With that code several people where still developing using it, but there was only one person who really understood it.
I don't know how they are reverse engineering the project (decompiler, deassember, what have you) but we have to realize that some of the code they find may not have been seen/worked on since 02.
LOL, another one that has not heard of Startisback and other apps, that bring the start button back.
And prolly not even tried Windows 8.
Missing Worlds Media was created for the purpose of making a spiritual successor to City of Heroes. They are not going to be developing two MMO's simultaneously. It is not all on MWM's shoulders to pull off everything. A separate holding company will be responsible for licensing the IP. A separate effort will be bringing back the I23 servers up and running again. Yet another project [APR] will be transitioning the COH IP to Unreal Engine 4. Just because Nate was one of the people involved in the negotiations does not mean that he, and by extension MWM, is going to be running everything. He has already stated that he is not interested in running the holding company. He has his hands full already.Once the holding company is set up, my role is done.
I am not following blindly. Nor am I looking at these efforts cynically. I am supporting the game that I love as are all those who are doing their best to make all these plans a reality. We will see if they can pull this off or not. In the words of Yoda...
http://youtu.be/BQ4yd2W50No
Also, what you have done must have been pretty dang impressive, because it brought Turgenev out of hiding! WOW.
For those who do not know Korean business methods, it is considered highly rude to directly email someone, but to instead get an introduction from a third party business associate. This meant we had to find someone who was not part of NC Soft to formally introduce us to Mr. Yoon. Fortunately, we had two people who could do just that, a former NC West employee and a former co-worker of mine who had started a media company which works with NC Soft on developing properties for the Asian market.
Introductions in place, we made the leap from US-bound people to members of the Korean firm. This was very carefully done, very slowly orchestrated. By July, we had gotten to the point that Mr. Yoon had passed us to Sangwon Chung from NC Soft's Strategic Partnership Development Team.
Why this group?
Because we approached them like another Korean company. We respected their company culture. And most importantly, we were patient. We had periods where we heard nothing for weeks.
The group itself began as three people. It has grown, some people more connected to the inner workings than others. Some former Cryptic and Paragon employees have given us advise on things ranging from what is needed to run the old server binaries to how the Paragon Market worked.
Once the holding company is set up, my role is done.
I have a hammer saws and a nailgun if it would help.
Hush, ya punk. I've been busylike. :P I'm always watching. I've just had to worry about swimming lessons, crib mods, managing a corporate buyout and subsequent RIF at my company this summer, which is still echoing...
I come home, I read "Puff the Magic Dragon" to MiniTurg, sing "Let It Go" like I'm Kermit the Frog, and I'm just knackered.
Your don't need those fancy tools. You can fix everything with duck tape
That's been asked, and answered, a least a dozen times since last night...
All things considered...if this deal gets done as proposed in the OP...how long before we get to log in? Any estimates?
Sorry FloatingFatMan...I didn't have the stamina to read all 25 pages to find my answers. Please know my tone in that sentence is friendly and genuine...you are one my favorite posters on here. I hope we might put answers on the OP to avoid such events.
My apologies if my tone came over as brusque, that wasn't the intent. :)
Second time today, I've done that. I'm on a roll! :p
At risk of asking another question answered in these many pages...
All things considered...if this deal gets done as proposed in the OP...how long before we get to log in? Any estimates?
My dad has a pat answer for questions like this, but if you're not a Brit, you probably won't get it...I'm not a Brit but I think I get the idea of what you mean by that....
"When Nelson gets his eye back!" :p
This is great news! I have no idea why NCSoft closed down CoH in the first place. Name a better MMO that closed? You probably can't. MMO's don't reopen every day, in fact, I can't name one. Looking forward to it. Great job!
we are building it out of ducks? thats gonna drive people quackers...Duck tape is made using duck cloth layered between the adhesive and the plastic backing. While it's popularly referred to as "duct tape" in many places it's actually a terrible tape to use on ducts since it doesn't hold up well at all in heat. Actually it's generally not a good tape for any sort of long term use since even in cooler environments it tends to get crumbly over time instead of turning into a gummy mess like in hotter environments.
Duck tape is made using duck cloth layered between the adhesive and the plastic backing. While it's popularly referred to as "duct tape" in many places it's actually a terrible tape to use on ducts since it doesn't hold up well at all in heat. Actually it's generally not a good tape for any sort of long term use since even in cooler environments it tends to get crumbly over time instead of turning into a gummy mess like in hotter environments.
i'd post more on topic comments and questions, but so far that's been pretty well handled by other people, so i'm mostly reading and offering incidental kvetching.
Kudos to downix, TonyV, Irish Girl, and everyone else on staying on top of things and responding with such clarity and patience.
I am speechless. Fingers tightly crossed.
I can't even name a better MMO, let alone one that closed.
Not any more, you have a post now! We've been waiting so long for you to show up, where have you been!!?
At risk of asking another question answered in these many pages...
All things considered...if this deal gets done as proposed in the OP...how long before we get to log in? Any estimates?
At risk of asking another question answered in these many pages...
All things considered...if this deal gets done as proposed in the OP...how long before we get to log in? Any estimates?
30 minutes without any posts in this thread? I haven't looked outside my window lately, is the world still there?I think its due to everyone soaking up all of the information we have at the moment :)
/e pokes the anthill...
Duck tape is made using duck cloth layered between the adhesive and the plastic backing. While it's popularly referred to as "duct tape" in many places it's actually a terrible tape to use on ducts since it doesn't hold up well at all in heat. Actually it's generally not a good tape for any sort of long term use since even in cooler environments it tends to get crumbly over time instead of turning into a gummy mess like in hotter environments.
i'd post more on topic comments and questions, but so far that's been pretty well handled by other people, so i'm mostly reading and offering incidental kvetching.
Kudos to downix, TonyV, Irish Girl, and everyone else on staying on top of things and responding with such clarity and patience.
I think its due to everyone soaking up all of the information we have at the moment :)No, everyone is several dozen concepts deep into Icon and/or Mid's
I would love to offer help to someone out there, but, about the only thing I am really good at that you might need is proofreading. I am pretty good at catching typos, providing examples of better grammar and better ways to word things. If any of the companies or individuals that are working on these projects is in need of those skills from me, please, feel free to contact me.
-- Storm
I am cautiously optimistic. There's a LOT going on in this announcement, and a lot of work ahead, should a deal come to fruition with NCSoft. One of the things mentioned is still a bit confusing to me, even though someone has tried to explain it, and that is the concept that APR will be using MWM's CoT build. I am SO not getting that. But, you know what? I really probably don't NEED to get it. :) The rest of it makes sense.
<snip>
-- Storm
Its great to see that Nc Soft is actually talking and open to possibly selling the IP, but we have a long way to go still. I applaud everyone who has worked on this to #SaveCoH.
I am still hopeful that somehow character data can be rescued. One of my biggest concerns if character data is not available are that many veterans will not return to the game. I was thinking about this last night and im coming from my own personal view and I know the shared views of others.. Its twelve years later since the launch of City of Heroes. I am not the person I was then. I am married now.. with a family.. different responsibilities that require more time. I dont have the time to sit and play hours and hours and hours on end like I did previously. And in all honesty I dont want to play the same content over and over and over AGAIN that I already have. If I had to start over and remake every character and earn and purchase all those enhancements all over again I just dont know if I would want to do that. Would I remake everyone.. no.. but they are some core character that I would and even those are 25-30 plus characters..
And having no idea what will happen to the maintenance mode long term or if those character will be ported over to CoH 1.5... Its a very challenging situation.. I know several people in my SG that I have remained in contact with feel the same way..
Everyone of us will ABSOLUTELY play if/when the games comes back. The question is will they support the game like they did in years past.. will they stay long term..
At this point im taking the Tony V position more seriously.. be patient.. and wait until everything unfolds..
This is something I worry about as well. I could see her getting overwhelmed by offers of help. But hopefully more experienced people will be able to help with this. I hope so anyway.Interesting point. This will be a double-edged sword. Offers to help should increase greatly (I know nothing, and can't help feeling the urge to help as well), but sorting through those offers and putting together a "team" might not be so easy.
My issues are now Irishgirl is about to be thrown to the sharks. I hope she can get some direction on a business manager because in my dealings on the original project 3 or 4 very unscrupulous people tried to get a foot in the door. She will need help in programming but also with business acumen.If only the programming stuff was the only skill needed!
The Engine in UR4 is far superior and has many additional features. Features that make developing far faster:The prospect of running an ITF in UR4 is exciting. Maybe the "valley of lag" would go away even as the graphics made a huge leap forward.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOvfn1p92_8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AMY7I_eHjk
In the Tech Demo look at the Cave section! Wow!
30 minutes without any posts in this thread? I haven't looked outside my window lately, is the world still there?
/e pokes the anthill...
Since it is based off the Cryptic Engine it is possible that there may be backdoors into existing Cryptic products. Then you could get a snapshot of the game up and running but unwinding the reverse engineering would have you use different solutions to things than the original code did and so the SCoRE folks could potentially be in a very good spot :)
Look at it this way... If you don't like the "Update", you'll still have CoH1.0 to play.
Win/Win in my books.
As I understand it, APR has nothing to do with MWM or CoT. Their job will be to get old CoHi23 to work on a newer MMO engine,. a copy that can be edited, and patched, derived from the binary CoHi23 version. This will be referred to as CoH 1.5
I can't even name a better MMO, let alone one that closed.+1
Be careful man, it might be fire ants. It could even be army ants or some other super deadly ant!Since it's a super hero game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UozWJTuhbMQ
I was trying to find a video with even deadlier ants......
Be careful man, it might be fire ants. It could even be army ants or some other super deadly ant!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UozWJTuhbMQ
I was trying to find a video with even deadlier ants......
Be careful man, it might be fire ants. It could even be army ants or some other super deadly ant!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UozWJTuhbMQ
I was trying to find a video with even deadlier ants......
Since it's a super hero game:
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=upload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fa%2Fae%2FAuntmay.jpg)
/e pokes back
I go to sleep, and the thread jumps forward 5 pages! So...many posts I want to reply to. @_@
Completely correct! If a woman owns it, that's pretty shady right there! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
Geez Louise, like the sex of the owner is even relevant. That is the very last of our worries, why was this even mentioned. Thumbs down. >:(
If it's organized this way with a titular "owner" for tax purposes, but actually run by someone else, this can be semi-shady, and the IRS (as they are wont to do) tends to frown on companies that set up this way in a less than legitimate manner.
Just a thought/question. Assuming all goes well.
So if we start playing the zombified version of CoH then decide to switch to "CoH 1.5" will we have to start over a third time? Or are you guys thinking of some way to transfer character data from one to the other.
Obviously this question makes a lot of assumptions.
It can be. If it's organized this way with a titular "owner" for tax purposes, but actually run by someone else, this can be semi-shady, and the IRS (as they are wont to do) tends to frown on companies that set up this way in a less than legitimate manner.Of course as MWM is not set up in this way for tax purposes, but for copyright and trademark protection, does not apply.
Essentially the implication being made is that MWM is not a fully operational company in the classic sense. But is a poorly capitalized, loosely organized federation of developers in a conveniently packaged shell corporation designed to minimize monetary liabilities. Which really isn't all that far from the truth.
I've used this one before but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2PLls02gOU
My dad has a pat answer for questions like this, but if you're not a Brit, you probably won't get it...
"When Nelson gets his eye back!" :p
There's the real possibility that it's organized this way as a form of tax dodge. Not that dodging taxes is really WRONG or anything (show me where it's stated that a company or person is OBLIGATED to pay maximum possible taxes).
I was wondering if CoH 1.5 would use the same music (not a bad thing at all...I LOVED the music in CoH) since that is probably a part of the IP?
Barring something unseen...It will be using the original music, where appropriate.This might a dumb question but will 1.5 have all of the zones and a few new zones?
That said... As a game that's going to be expanding, It will need new music at some point.
I feel where they're coming from. I'll still play, but I won't be able to get what I had back. I'm ok with this, but others aren't. And that's ok too.
He's essentially saying that when his characters died, the game died with them. I'm not so sure that accusing him of "never loving the game" is in order though, considering how much time he had put into it. Perhaps the love of the game and the love and care he put into his characters is too much for him to bear parting with. That doesn't mean he didn't love the game. In fact, it could mean exactly the opposite. Perhaps he loved the game TOO much. People were very, very attached to their characters. I'm not afraid to say I shed some tears when it finally hit me that I wouldn't be able to ever play my Warshade (as he was) again. This game meant something to people.
Barring something unseen...It will be using the original music, where appropriate.Not a bad thing at all. Those tracks still sound awesome to me.
That said... As a game that's going to be expanding, It will need new music at some point.
Yes, but what does that have to do with the sex of the owner? Why would a woman-owned company be more suspect than a man-owned company?
Of course as MWM is not set up in this way for tax purposes, but for copyright and trademark protection, does not apply.
If anything, we've rather overpaid our taxes to-date, as I know if we used our international nature of volunteers to our advantage, we could have used accounting tricks to avoid paying more. (set up subsidies in the Netherlands, Cayman and Ireland, and bam, "what taxes?" Good old Double Irish with a Dutch Sandwich)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.zerohedge.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fuser5%2Fimageroot%2F2012%2F04%2FDouble%2520Irishi.jpg)
So businesses owned by women are not subject to taxation? I am learning a lot here today. 8)
I was just amused and annoyed that the person whom I was quoting seemed to view "woman-owned" as fitting right in with his list of other objectionable criteria. Truly: whut.
Since it's a super hero game:
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=upload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fa%2Fae%2FAuntmay.jpg)
Ok, Harpo. You win. Your response was waaaay better than mine. :)"Honest, I thought she was a lich! Look at those claws, that staring, cadaverous face; how was I to know?!"
This might a dumb question but will 1.5 have all of the zones and a few new zones?
It seems to me like the whole idea with CoH 1.5 is to basically have CoH live on in a more future-proofed way. Exactly CoH, just updatable, more features to AE, etc.
Barring something unseen...It will be using the original music, where appropriate.
That said... As a game that's going to be expanding, It will need new music at some point.
;D Yeah, It's pretty. You guys should see it in-game. hehe.
I would be willing to watch a video of you walking around in those zones. Not boring at all to me. :D
I have a shot-in-the-dark question about the characters and the possibility of them being lost. When the sunset announcement was first made, someone (and I forget whom it was and apologize) had a program that made XML files out of toon information. After reading the OP, I scrounged around and found several XML files I made of the toons I wanted to save for the heck of it. Would it even be possible to think that those files could be used to incorporate rebuilt toons for the game if everything with this business deal goes through?
Time does change things. I'm not at all sure I want to play 14 hours a day, even on a weekend like I did before. (I was unemployed for a year in 2011) That's just playing to be playing, forgetting about the real world. I'll be far more casual than I ever was - but you can bet I'll get me a level 50 as quickly as I can so I can lead those iTrials.
Hello,
I have a shot-in-the-dark question about the characters and the possibility of them being lost. When the sunset announcement was first made, someone (and I forget whom it was and apologize) had a program that made XML files out of toon information. After reading the OP, I scrounged around and found several XML files I made of the toons I wanted to save for the heck of it. Would it even be possible to think that those files could be used to incorporate rebuilt toons for the game if everything with this business deal goes through?
Shockacon
I used a decompiler to turn a finished program back into it source code. No comments of course, and it produced some pretty horrifically ugly source code, but it worked none the less. Is that still the case now adays? I'm sure you know where I'm going with this.Decompilers only work really well for certain types of programming languages, and the CoH binary is almost certain not one of them.
Completely correct! If a woman owns it, that's pretty shady right there! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
Geez Louise, like the sex of the owner is even relevant. That is the very last of our worries, why was this even mentioned. Thumbs down. >:(
That and I can edit mine to have whatever I want and what was missing hey I need a couple extra purple sets and maybe a couple pvp IO's I was missing
Completely correct! If a woman owns it, that's pretty shady right there! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
Decompilers only work really well for certain types of programming languages, and the CoH binary is almost certain not one of them.
More to the point, if CoH were to license the binary, the sort of thing you're suggesting would be in violation of the spirit of the agreement, if not the letter.
Assuming that we get what's described: I23 with no ability to modify or update, I propose that we be happy with that until the CoH1.5 project(s) come to fruition.
So basically any efforts on 1.5 would be from the ground up?
Not a bad thing at all. Those tracks still sound awesome to me.
When I read the post you're talking about, all I could think of is...
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.startrek.com%2Fuploads%2Fassets%2Fdb_articles%2F0379b23e9845c9c652488c13f7bb557fc62a3642.jpg)
"Everyone knows fe-males don't have the lobes for business!"
When I read the post you're talking about, all I could think of is...This has made my evening. Lol.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.startrek.com%2Fuploads%2Fassets%2Fdb_articles%2F0379b23e9845c9c652488c13f7bb557fc62a3642.jpg)
"Everyone knows fe-males don't have the lobes for business!"
That's precisely why I had so many 50s and had the time to create a Warshade guide that was 50+ pages long as well as dozens of "sample builds" inserted into it... I was unemployed for much of 2008-2009 (due to the 2008 economic meltdown), and playing every day then was what I did to keep myself from going deeper into depression and self-loathing about my inabilities to do anything at the time.
One of these days, I'm going to create a thread and detail exactly everything that CoH meant to me, but I need to do it during a time that I won't be breaking down crying half the time. I need to be able to finish it. :)
That's precisely why I had so many 50s and had the time to create a Warshade guide that was 50+ pages long as well as dozens of "sample builds" inserted into it... I was unemployed for much of 2008-2009 (due to the 2008 economic meltdown), and playing every day then was what I did to keep myself from going deeper into depression and self-loathing about my inabilities to do anything at the time.That was you?
One of these days, I'm going to create a thread and detail exactly everything that CoH meant to me, but I need to do it during a time that I won't be breaking down crying half the time. I need to be able to finish it. :)
No, everyone is several dozen concepts deep into Icon and/or Mid's
Um...was your coh forum name Dechs Kaison? If so, you should know I modeled my own warshade after that playstyle. It was an epic guide.
That was you?
You were my hero! Enabled me to turn my "this sucks" guy into an awesome kick-ass monster!
He was a total legend in the Kheldian community.
Not just for Khelds - his guide to tanking were why I became a good tank! Without them I dunno where I'd be!
I've been wishing I could find some modern (i23 compliant, not just for the relaunch but because PBs changed a LOT) PB buildcraft theory to read over just as something to pass the time, but I haven't had much luck in searching.
I'd forgotten his name because I read all of his guides thoroughly after the tank guide helped me learn so much, but it was awhile ago. Couldn't remember his handle. Even if I can't do anything with the info, reading this sort of thing is really fun for me... so thanks for the links! :D
Great guy.
Oh, I used to read all of you guys' stuff too.
But...you probably already knew that.
AIB
I know that may sound a little crazy, but going through unemployment for over a year and having no one hire you will do many things to a person's psyche.
Sittin on about three at the moment on this end, I know that exact feeling. I used CoH very similarly.
Glad we all still have eachother here, even if it isn't the same... for now :)
+1
Hang in there. In my experience, it can only get better--and it did!
I'm not directly involved in the talks with NCSoft, but from what I understand the source is completely off the table, and many of the tools required simply don't exist anymore.
I'm curious though, apologies if this was asked already, but what of costume codes and booster packs? If the game comes back, will you even be able to generate and sell/give out codes? Otherwise, wouldn't stuff like Justice and Sinister costume sets, Pocket D Tiki VIP, Arachnos Helmets and the like be gone forever?Other than "people are talking to NCsoft", there is literally no more information out there yet.
Sittin on about three at the moment on this end, I know that exact feeling. I used CoH very similarly.
Glad we all still have eachother here, even if it isn't the same... for now :)
Not just for Khelds - his guide to tanking were why I became a good tank! Without them I dunno where I'd be!
I've been wishing I could find some modern (i23 compliant, not just for the relaunch but because PBs changed a LOT) PB buildcraft theory to read over just as something to pass the time, but I haven't had much luck in searching.
I'd forgotten his name because I read all of his guides thoroughly after the tank guide helped me learn so much, but it was awhile ago. Couldn't remember his handle. Even if I can't do anything with the info, reading this sort of thing is really fun for me... so thanks for the links! :D
so basically its another we have to wait till next year for more information.....
uh huh
I'm cautiously optimistic about this, but given the way the world seems to react to me, I'm just going to say I'm not really convinced this thing is going to happen. Prove me wrong, world!
Anyway, I've got one little question for Irish_Girl: are there any plans to expand APR to the Rogue Isles, or is it a Hero-only project? Villains were made homeless too! :'(
so basically its another we have to wait till next year for more information.....
uh huh
Unfortunately, this isn't as easy as "We can do it, you don't get anything out of saying no, you agree? Cool, flip the switches and we're back in Paragon City."
Let me come right out and admit that the apparent loss of the i24 perfection patch has hit me harder than expected. So let me ask, is there a way to get i24? I would move a lot of mountains to get i24 back. Is it a money thing? I am so in mourning for it I would donate quite a bit to get us that issue - perhaps other people would too.
Do we have to give up on i24 CoX now, or is there a way?
Let me come right out and admit that the apparent loss of the i24 perfection patch has hit me harder than expected. So let me ask, is there a way to get i24? I would move a lot of mountains to get i24 back. Is it a money thing? I am so in mourning for it I would donate quite a bit to get us that issue - perhaps other people would too.
Do we have to give up on i24 CoX now, or is there a way?
I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to ask me about redside. Um... It's planned? That's, unfortunately, all the detail I really have on it ATM.
It's more "even if everything goes off without a hitch from here on out, it is an unreasonable assumption to imagine CoH back up and running before next year"
I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to ask me about redside. Um... It's planned? That's, unfortunately, all the detail I really have on it ATM.
Gold Side! Gold Side!
All Hail Emperor Cole!
Someone had asked about why Atlas Park Revival would be using the City of Titans Build.
I am not a programmer. Let me state this right up front. My brother is the game programmer in the family. So this is my understanding. So the game has two main parts. You have the game engine. In this case Unreal Engine 4. Both City of Titans and Atlas Park Revival are using the same game engine. So you have compatibility there. Unreal Engine basically renders the environment, the characters, the mobs, the powers via particle effect animations etc..,
However the engine still needs instructions on what to display, when to display it, where to display it, etc...
This is where the build comes in to play. By using a modified version of the COT build it gives APR a leg up on the code end of the game without having to right their own code. They will most likely need to tweak, modify, adapt such code to better suit the look and feel of the game. Even with the MMO support built in you still need to tell the engine what to do. This is my layman understanding of the process. I am sure others with more programming expertise will feel free to correct/criticize any errors in my post. :P
Keeping in mind that we do not have the COH source code....this means no new content...no new powersets, no new anything....this is why I23 will be maintenance mode only. By using the COT build you get the ability to alter the code, add new code and adjust as needed. This means new content, new story arcs, new power sets, new zones, etc.
This has made my evening. Lol.Hummmman fe-males doing business AND wearing clothes! What is the galaxy coming too?
You are definitely on the right track with your explanation.
Let me add that CoT is being created by people who want the same feel as we had with CoH. That pretty much means that a certain portion of their code is probably set very similar to what would have to be created for CoH 1.5.
Things like a costume creator would have already been started and that gives Irish_Girl and anyone helping her a leg up in the process.
Hummmm-On
I know that's essentially a really fancy way of saying "-shrug-", and I'm really sorry I don't have a better answer as of yet.
I'd love to know what Matt Miller and some of the former Paragon folks think of all this. Positrons twitter is silent on the matter.
@Irish_Girl
How many volunteers do you have?
I have some dumb question about this Source Code Thing.
Will it be possible for the Future Devs without this Code, let's say, to edit the Title Screens to Rename the Game, change the Picture or change the Server List if less Server will be available?
Sorry for this stupid Question. :)
I have some dumb question about this Source Code Thing.
Will it be possible for the Future Devs without this Code, let's say, to edit the Title Screens to Rename the Game, change the Picture or change the Server List if less Server will be available?
Sorry for this stupid Question. :)
The pictures, no. That will almost certainly need the source code.
The server list, yes. That's going to be database based and is a variable list of values.
The title screen background could be changed, Kinda. I know of a nifty little program called NeoSplasher that does exactly that.
Never used it, but I hear it works quite well.
I think that mods one of the PIGGS? Without the source code, they're not going to be able to build patch updates, so to change that, they'd have to send out a whole new PIGG, and who knows if they've hardcoded file offset locations in those.... Not worth the effort and risk, IMO.
Hummmman fe-males doing business AND wearing clothes! What is the galaxy coming too?
Even if only 30 percent of players are there, that's still 30 percent, and I always felt having Redside (and later Gold) was critically important to making City of Heroes what it was.
Both City of Titans and Atlas Park Revival are using the same game engine. So you have compatibility there. Unreal Engine basically renders the environment, the characters, the mobs, the powers via particle effect animations etc..,
However the engine still needs instructions on what to display, when to display it, where to display it, etc...
This is where the build comes in to play. By using a modified version of the COT build it gives APR a leg up on the code end of the game without having to right their own code. They will most likely need to tweak, modify, adapt such code to better suit the look and feel of the game. Even with the MMO support built in you still need to tell the engine what to do.
At the moment It's just myself, with some occasional helping keeping the website running from Neo Ravencroft.
That's going to be changing soon however. I plan on ramping up the team size.
At the moment It's just myself, with some occasional helping keeping the website running from Neo Ravencroft.
That's going to be changing soon however. I plan on ramping up the team size.
I suppose I could be convinced to bring some APR-related enlightenment to the masses.
Let's see here... Zone wise...
Atlas Park - The zone with the most work into it, by far. Perhaps 70% finished. All the streets are laid out, many of the buildings are in place, Trees are even starting to be put down in places.
Steel Canyon - 20-30% completed
Galaxy City - 20-30% completed
Independence Port - 10% completed
Founders Falls - 20-30% completed
Talos Island 10-20%
Perez Park - 10%
"The Hollows" - 10%
Sirens Call - 5%
Pocket D - 50%
and of course, the zone we unveiled our move to Unreal Engine 4 with...
Ouroboros - 95%
Technically, I can walk around any of the zones atm. I'm nothing but a Rikti Drone, and I've got no powers or anything.
Since we're going to be using a version of the City of Titans UE4 build, more work on character creation and powers and what have you is dependent on their work schedule. Not that APR is lacking in work in the mean time!
The geometries from the meshes are currently mostly pulled from Legacy CoH, but rarely are they un-modified. Many meshes have simply had to be re-built from scratch for one reason or another.
Don't even get me started on textures. -shakes head- 64x64 textures for the sides of buildings might have cut it in 2004.
I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff...I really should write all this down. heh
Hey Irish Girl :D
Would it possible to share some images or clips of the zones that you've started on that haven't been put online so far?
If you've already fielded this question please ignore it - I couldn't see it being asked in this thread.
I am ready to learn UnReal 4 and start helping. I have a few questions - the $19 a month is it for just one "slot" or rather per person? I just wondered if it can be installed on more than one computer at a time for that price - if so we could pool the licenses.
https://www.facebook.com/AtlasParkRevival
Hey Irish Girl :D
Would it possible to share some images or clips of the zones that you've started on that haven't been put online so far?
If you've already fielded this question please ignore it - I couldn't see it being asked in this thread.
I'd have to re-read the UE4 license agreement... But yes, I believe it's $19 per person. You don't have to pay monthly, I don't. You only need to pay initially, and when you need updates from Epic.
Ok, I will pick it up and download it tonight. I will also make the offer that if any graphic artists don't have the $19 let me know I may be able to speak to Epic and make an arrangement to buy more than one and be able to give out the codes.
Irishgirl, I asked Tony V but I am not sure he asked you - do you want a section of the forums for this project? It might be nice to have threads for each part of the effort?
Now time to change focus for me! The deal is in process and we know the future of our new home is UnReal 4. Deal or no deal anything we do can be ported to CoT as it will not be NCSoft's work but ours. To me this is a good way to help as we could share assets with CoT as they will be with this project.
So basically any efforts on 1.5 would be from the ground up?Not entirely.
Yeah, I'm already delving into my "Mastering Unreal Technology" book and I'll be purchasing a license myself by the end of the week and hopefully expanding on the tiny sliver of knowledge I gained about Unreal about a decade ago... I'm sure thousands of things have changed since then.
Not entirely.
Thanks to the efforts of many folks in the community, a great deal of the data that drives the game is known and documented (e.g. how much damage does a level-1 energy bolt do? How much damage is added by one damage enhancement, etc.). Because so much of this is known, re-implementing those numbers into a new engine is actually one of the smaller tasks ahead of the developers.
Also, the new developers get to reap the benefits of all of the balancing work done by the CoH team during the game's lifecycle. Balancing game systems is some of the hardest work in game design; while CoH isn't perfectly balanced, it's way ahead of where a completely new game would be.
Most importantly, there is a concrete picture of what the finished product should resemble. I'm a software developer, and I can't overstate the value of this. Once the MWM developers start getting playable builds, they'll be able to run their build side-by-side with I23 CoH and say, "does this feel like COH? Is this better? Is this worse? Is it too different? Not different enough? Is this what we want? Is this what we believe the community will want?"
So, from the perspective of actually writing code and building the game, they are starting from scratch. However, they get the benefit of years of pre- and post-launch design work.
Hope this answers your question. :)
I actually tinkered with UnReal 3 a bit back and made a map and was flying around in it. However UnReal 4 is completely on another level. I know once we get things organized we can start sharing best practices and any easy ways we find to do things. I was even considering taking a look at re-creating Icon if possible - because having the character creator back as a stand-alone would damn near be worth $5-10 dollars on its own.
Of course their would be one in game but having the stand-alone as an option and I know UR4 supports mobile phones too. So a character creator app for $5 might be a great way to start funding the project.
Yeah, I think I can scrounge up some teasers if you guys really want.
I'm not sure if I want to turn this thread into a Revival picture show however... I suppose it's teeeeeechnically not off topic?
I am ready to learn UnReal 4 and start helping. I have a few questions - the $19 a month is it for just one "slot" or rather per person? I just wondered if it can be installed on more than one computer at a time for that price - if so we could pool the licenses.
I know that's essentially a really fancy way of saying "-shrug-", and I'm really sorry I don't have a better answer as of yet.It's better than the "Nah, screw villains" I could have expected from NC, so I'll take it! ;D
Where does one volunteer to help APR or COT?
I don't have MAD art skills, but I have decent ones.
http://kuraichan.deviantart.com
http://impiousimp.deviantart.com
As for joining City of Titans...
I'm not involved there, so... don't look at me.
I do stick figures that have been in accidents so I wont volunteer
On the subject of inquiry as to joining APR...
That is a subject I'll be dealing with next week. Most of this week is being dedicated to cleaning, packing, and carrying boxes of stuff (All of which I'm sure I'll regret owning as I'm having to carry it up 3 flights of stairs.)
I'd have to re-read the UE4 license agreement... But yes, I believe it's $19 per person. You don't have to pay monthly, I don't. You only need to pay initially, and when you need updates from Epic.
I just went to the page, and it says "$19/mo"... Are you sure it's not a monthly charge?You can opt to buy one month and not to continue. You do not get any updates that way, and they do several a month.
You can opt to buy one month and not to continue. You do not get any updates that way, and they do several a month.
Ah, ok. I guess in a development sense, everyone who is part of the development team would only have to pay again if an update was released that was needed in order to improve the development of the game. This may be a question for if Irish_Girl gets her own section of the forums, but I'll go ahead and ask it now since one doesn't exist at the moment: if Irish_Girl is developing the APR in one version of Unreal 4, and some of us pay for/download whatever the latest version of Unreal 4 is, will that cause conflicts/problems when we share assets, due to version mismatches?You can download older versions as well. Just need to standardize on a version.
I'm still learning how the system works.
Where does one volunteer to help APR or COT?That looks great to me!
I don't have MAD art skills, but I have decent ones.
http://kuraichan.deviantart.com
http://impiousimp.deviantart.com
Hey Downix, I asked a question a few pages back, but as you're in the thread now, I'll ask it again...
Assuming we get the deal inked... Who would actually own the IP rights for CoH? I know you said there'd be a "holding company", but who will be deciding who runs this? Is there a group already in mind? Do we know them? Are they us?
On the subject of inquiry as to joining APR...
That is a subject I'll be dealing with next week. Most of this week is being dedicated to cleaning, packing, and carrying boxes of stuff (All of which I'm sure I'll regret owning as I'm having to carry it up 3 flights of stairs.)
I don't really have the time, or focus to try and organize people at the moment, and it would just end up being a mess I'd have to untangle next week anyways.
That looks great to me!I agree. :)
Hey Downix, I asked a question a few pages back, but as you're in the thread now, I'll ask it again...That is still one of the negotiating points, ownership percentages as well as control, and a lot of that depends on other conditions. They trade x for y, that kind of thing.
Assuming we get the deal inked... Who would actually own the IP rights for CoH? I know you said there'd be a "holding company", but who will be deciding who runs this? Is there a group already in mind? Do we know them? Are they us?
I'm just a little concerned the IP will end up with someone who might not have our or the games interests at heart.
Not to speak for Downix, but he did answer this question in a couple of ways already- here (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,10284.msg158542.html#msg158542) and here (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,10284.msg158544.html#msg158544). I get the sense that it is still very much up in the air, and he may not have any more specifics.
That is still one of the negotiating points, ownership percentages as well as control, and a lot of that depends on other conditions. They trade x for y, that kind of thing.
Simply put, as this area is still one of the major negotiating points, could majorly derail if I go into details.
Ah, I must have missed those when I was skipping... Cheers.
Ok, so...by special request. New pictures of REALLY unpolished stuff.
Warning: Seriously under construction.
Images will be hidden under spoiler tags, so Agge doesn't smack me with her mod hat.
Truly truly gorgeous, Irish_Girl! (the maps are looking good, too! ;) )
I do have one request though... Something maybe everyone will agree even if it wouldn't actually be the same as CoH...
Car models that actually look decent, instead of the HIDEOUS things that were in CoH! Ugh! Truly.. Ugh!
Oh, and maybe a bus or two! ;)
Flattery will get you nowhere, son of Harkonnen!
However, I will go out on a limb to confirm decent looking cars, and even busses.
Truly truly gorgeous, Irish_Girl! (the maps are looking good, too! ;) )+1
I do have one request though... Something maybe everyone will agree even if it wouldn't actually be the same as CoH...
Car models that actually look decent, instead of the HIDEOUS things that were in CoH! Ugh! Truly.. Ugh!
How about children when it comes time to populate the city?
Isn't there a topic somewhere about what made CoH "feel" like CoH? I wonder if some people would not want things like that to change?
OK, I'm getting carried away now. My point is though, I don't see any harm in little tweaks to improve then overall game world.Same. It's actually very exciting to look at the APR pics.
If it's in a new engine, I think that it's a little silly not to take advantage of said new engine and improve models and textures where appropriate.You can use the existing material for LOD purposes as well you know.
I don't mean important stuff like the general look and how the game plays, but inconsequential stuff like the background npc's, textures, stuff like that.. All can be improved to add to the ambience. Look at the rebuild of Atlas Park that Paragon Studios gave us. I don't recall -anyone- not loving it when the devs presented it to us. It was -gorgeous-
Sounds can mostly stay as they are, though maybe some can be muted (super speed, targetting drone), more can be added such as a gentle breeze sound or birds in the background.. Maybe kids playing in the park during the day, a faint hum/sizzle from the war walls when you're near them... Maybe even some weather affects from time to time...
OK, I'm getting carried away now. My point is though, I don't see any harm in little tweaks to improve then overall game world.
Irish_Girl has spoken about the volume and complexity to bringing red-side and gold-side back to CoH 1.5. I want to re-affirm: all the content, blue, red, gold, will be included in the frozen CoHi23 zombie CoH with all the understanding that the negotiations and game store recreation being accomplished. Or did I miss something in the details?
Until they get their hands on it and play around, assume that w/o source code, i23 will be the same as it was when Paragon ran it.
That seems the safe bet to me :)
I could easily live with i23 :)
To the best of my knowledge, the Issue 23 Legacy CoH would be CoH as it before the shutdown. No more, No less.
Oh the APR-related complexity of things... Gold side would prolly be the easiest side to do. Least amount of content, as well as most everything being fairly new models and textures.
The Rogue Isles however...are a nightmare. A nightmare that will require a lot of scratch built assets, and textures to replace the poor rats nest that was thrown together very quickly.
On the subject of inquiry as to joining APR...
That is a subject I'll be dealing with next week. Most of this week is being dedicated to cleaning, packing, and carrying boxes of stuff (All of which I'm sure I'll regret owning as I'm having to carry it up 3 flights of stairs.)
I don't really have the time, or focus to try and organize people at the moment, and it would just end up being a mess I'd have to untangle next week anyways.
As for joining City of Titans...
I'm not involved there, so... don't look at me.
Truly truly gorgeous, Irish_Girl! (the maps are looking good, too! ;) )
I do have one request though... Something maybe everyone will agree even if it wouldn't actually be the same as CoH...
Car models that actually look decent, instead of the HIDEOUS things that were in CoH! Ugh! Truly.. Ugh!
Oh, and maybe a bus or two! ;)
I so agree with this! It was difficult trying to be in a city that was supposed to be so futuristic technologically but had cars from bad 1970's cop shows.Sales ad:
Though I would just RP that people had "beater" cars because of so many superpowered fights. Who would buy a Rolls Royce or BMW just to watch it trashed between a fire blaster and Clockwork scavangers?
I'd have to re-read the UE4 license agreement... But yes, I believe it's $19 per person. You don't have to pay monthly, I don't. You only need to pay initially, and when you need updates from Epic.
Anyone else notice that the press coverage seems to be focused on the "spiritual successor" side of the deal with next to no mention of CoH i23 getting back online?
Anyway, all these articles are getting enthusiastic comments. I hope someone over in Korea realizes that doing this deal could greatly help their PR image.
That's great! Thank goodness CoH offered us all of the numbers. :) And there's still City of Data. http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/
Thanks to the efforts of many folks in the community, a great deal of the data that drives the game is known and documented (e.g. how much damage does a level-1 energy bolt do? How much damage is added by one damage enhancement, etc.). Because so much of this is known, re-implementing those numbers into a new engine is actually one of the smaller tasks ahead of the developers.
guys can you please wait on bringing back CoH until I finish grad school
I know it's gonna be like a year and a half but it would really be super-helpful and great if I didn't have to choose between my first MMO love and my professional future
guys can you please wait on bringing back CoH until I finish grad school
I know it's gonna be like a year and a half but it would really be super-helpful and great if I didn't have to choose between my first MMO love and my professional future
Question I keep forgetting to ask:
What's informing their reluctance to release source code for a code base that's been around this long? Is there a liability issue or something?
There is a possibility that this source or part may be in other Cryptic engines and may have backdoors to the system. NCSoft would have to explain any other reason and they aren't doing so yet.
Content Creation Question -
I'm no artist - can barely draw a straight line. But I've been delving more into fiction writing over the past few years and plan to participate in NaNoWriMo this year with a CoH based short story about one of my Heroes.
If I wanted to get involved in the writing/storyline/questing part, what would be a good way to get started? Should I start delving into UE4 stuff as well?
Thanks in advance...
T
And nobody wants someone entering their backdoor uninvited :o
"Donut, you can ruin anything!"
;)
Sorry, momentary lapse of sanity.
But nice RvB reference ;D
I am having friends from coh that I havent talked to in a couple of years or more contact me. there are a LOT of people watching this.We are getting the band back together.
Just a thought that came to my mind...
I wonder what the real population will be upon relaunch. I know this is again speculation but have any of you taken a moment to consider how many or few of us there are who want to play again? I think this really should be taken into account when considering how many servers to launch.
Anyone else notice that the press coverage seems to be focused on the "spiritual successor" side of the deal with next to no mention of CoH i23 getting back online?
Anyway, all these articles are getting enthusiastic comments. I hope someone over in Korea realizes that doing this deal could greatly help their PR image.
Out of curiosity, since we will be stuck in i23, did anyone ever get that one badge for killing the tyrant without using any of the lights in the iTrail? I remember people said that badge was only achievable when they unlocked more incanate powers
We are getting the band back together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzOHq5WbQ8k
Out of curiosity, since we will be stuck in i23, did anyone ever get that one badge for killing the tyrant without using any of the lights in the iTrail? I remember people said that badge was only achievable when they unlocked more incanate powers
Out of curiosity, since we will be stuck in i23, did anyone ever get that one badge for killing the tyrant without using any of the lights in the iTrail? I remember people said that badge was only achievable when they unlocked more incanate powersI got that on 2 or 3 of my characters (2 I'm sure of, the third I can't remember for sure). The group I was with was among the first to get it, but not the very first.
I'm curious though, apologies if this was asked already, but what of costume codes and booster packs? If the game comes back, will you even be able to generate and sell/give out codes? Otherwise, wouldn't stuff like Justice and Sinister costume sets, Pocket D Tiki VIP, Arachnos Helmets and the like be gone forever?
There is a possibility that this source or part may be in other Cryptic engines and may have backdoors to the system. NCSoft would have to explain any other reason and they aren't doing so yet.Correct me if my memory is faulty.
3. Speaking of successors, the pending "officialness" of the successors does give me concern about splitting the player base. Obviously people will play different games based on their preferences, but I can't help but wonder if the successors would want to "team up" with pricing? E.g. give a special reduced sub price to all three games (rather than $15 a month each, $30 total for all three). Something like that.That is a unique sounding idea. There does seem to be some spirit of "we are in this together" among the different groups (which is awesome). And discounts do result in more net income at times. (Discount Tuesdays at theaters for instance)
We are getting the band back together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzOHq5WbQ8k
I missed to chance to play CoH when it went free to play so Im not too sure what the options were.
That was the The Really Hard Way Badge (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/The_Really_Hard_Way_Badge), and at least 154 characters were verified to have earned it (http://cit.cohtitan.com/badges/list/Accolade/all/). In order to participate in the Magisterium Trial (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Magisterium_Trial), you had to have unlocked your Lore and Destiny slots, but not Hybrid.
There is a possibility that this source or part may be in other Cryptic engines and may have backdoors to the system. NCSoft would have to explain any other reason and they aren't doing so yet.Lock that stuff down... make us sign our field trip wavers saying we cant sue you and you cant sue us. Secondly if Star Trek Online(cryptic) or Lineage 2(NCsoft) is using a "Backdoor" from an archaic game such as CoH they REALLY almost deserve whatever would happen... that's like saying you cant use Windows 95 because it is a massive security threat to Windows 9 that isn't even out yet. Downright lazy if they left the same "backdoors" in those games.
I have to admit,my interest is totally about coh i23 etc., getting back online.That and I am more concerned about CoH 1.5/2. I am grateful for the spiritual successors but truthfully I could care less. They aren't City of Heroes and Never will be no matter how hard they try.
Lock that stuff down... make us sign our field trip wavers saying we cant sue you and you cant sue us.
Lock that stuff down... make us sign our field trip wavers saying we cant sue you and you cant sue us. Secondly if Star Trek Online(cryptic) or Lineage 2(NCsoft) is using a "Backdoor" from an archaic game such as CoH they REALLY almost deserve whatever would happen... that's like saying you cant use Windows 95 because it is a massive security threat to Windows 9 that isn't even out yet. Downright lazy if they left the same "backdoors" in those games.Ironwolf is not a coder, so he may not know the right terminology.
That and I am more concerned about CoH 1.5/2. I am grateful for the spiritual successors but truthfully I could care less. They aren't City of Heroes and Never will be no matter how hard they try.Nor should they be.
Thought that to, didn't comment LOL. I was to busy laughing. Shame they killed him off :(.
Until then, I look forward to seeing you all back in Atlas Park, whichever version we all land in!
From a business standpoint this would be an unacceptable liability.
It's like selling someone a keyring, and making them pinkie swear not to ever use one of the keys. You just don't do it.
We'll just have to accept what they're willing to offer - and hey, I'm giving NCSoft respect for even ATTEMPTING this. Do you remember how much over the top racism alone was spewed their way amidst the shutdown, nevermind some of the other forms of nastiness? Being willing to even look at CoH again in more than a "yes, it existed, cool" sort of way is worthy of a little cheer I think :)
Out of curiosity, since we will be stuck in i23, did anyone ever get that one badge for killing the tyrant without using any of the lights in the iTrail? I remember people said that badge was only achievable when they unlocked more incanate powers
A new website or forum here is going to definitely be needed. A list of volunteers and skills - all the good stuff that needs to be done.
guys can you please wait on bringing back CoH until I finish grad school
I know it's gonna be like a year and a half but it would really be super-helpful and great if I didn't have to choose between my first MMO love and my professional future
The Magisterium iTrial was what I would call "Gated Content". In order to participate, not only did you have to be VIP (only subscribers could do incarnate stuff, if I recall correctly) but you had to have Lore and Destiny unlocked. This iTrial was for me, one of the most incredible experiences. It took a truly special league of players to be able to take Cole down without using the lights. For some leagues, even with the lights, he was tough enough, lol.
Without lights, it pretty much needed to be an almost choreographed chaos so that players could be grouped for buffs, but scatter ASAP when that lightning blast was about to pop. I got this badge on three different characters on two different servers and other than facing the Avatar of Hamidon with insufficient Clarions, I can't think of a more challenging finale. In all honesty, I don't think a league without wise incarnate choices will do well, lights or not. Kudos to @Amygdala of Champion and @Xtreme Raze on Liberty for leading those efforts. ( I think @Lady Clara and @Placta may have also led successful runs on Champion, but I can't recall - such a tightnit community of both servers, if one was there, the others usually were as well.
Ok, so...by special request. New pictures of REALLY unpolished stuff.
Warning: Seriously under construction.
Images will be hidden under spoiler tags, so Agge doesn't smack me with her mod hat.Spoiler for Hidden:The plaza of Steel Canyon's University.Spoiler for Hidden:The first shot of Independence Port.Spoiler for Hidden:
In this picture, you might be able to see the hintings of one of my favorite changes that I'm making.
If you're flying along, and you look out past the War Walls...You can see the rest of Paragon City in the distance.Another shot of I.P. a tad closer to the bridge.Spoiler for Hidden:I have no idea where this is. I think it's from a different game. /sarcasmSpoiler for Hidden:This picture...is Paragon City from above. It should have the War Walls for just about all of the cities zones. Only Atlas Park, Independance Port, and Founders Falls have any of the zone detail showing in this image however.Spoiler for Hidden:
Ironwolf is not a coder, so he may not know the right terminology.That makes more sense. I wish there was a cure for that stuff I am assuming they/we are having issues isolating that stuff?
I think the better phrase may be "sharing code libraries." Things like internal user authentication libraries - things which it would make sense to share between multiple games.
We'll still have a general "Plan Z" discussion forum, and I don't mind folks making posts there to basically say, "Hey, look at what's going on over at our official site!", but to be honest, it's better for them this way in that they can go ahead and get their own user base created and set up.
The Magisterium ITrial was by far my favorite, simply cause it was a conclusion of the praetorian war.
I wonder ... are there plans to include speech in the revamp?
The Magisterium iTrial was what I would call "Gated Content". In order to participate, not only did you have to be VIP (only subscribers could do incarnate stuff, if I recall correctly) but you had to have Lore and Destiny unlocked. This iTrial was for me, one of the most incredible experiences. It took a truly special league of players to be able to take Cole down without using the lights. For some leagues, even with the lights, he was tough enough, lol.
...(they even say the hamidon is on the way to finish the city off at the end if I recall).
Upon defeat of Tyrant: (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Magisterium_Trial#Phase_4)
You've ruined everything! You have no comprehension of what you've unleashed on this world... this multiverse!
I had the power to save us all... to fight off the storm on the horizon...
We are undone...
I'd love to know what Matt Miller and some of the former Paragon folks think of all this. Positrons twitter is silent on the matter.
That makes more sense. I wish there was a cure for that stuff I am assuming they/we are having issues isolating that stuff?If they were isolated, they would be removed - from CoH. This would then deliver less than a game server, and something which was completely unplayable.
I wish you great success in grad school! But, having been through it, I know that you can find an hour here and there to play - you'd just have to read faster with the same comprehension. Practice now!
And remember, on your thesis: Pick a topic the professors know next to nothing about. That way, you'll know more than everyone else in the room. They will likely be too busy to read up on the topic as much as you will have. You'll be the only expert in the room.
Sales ad:
Those things are so rugged they can get hit by a semi and still stay intact.
Sure, they're uglier than sin, but when you are worried about the next fist-fight between Errmad and Rat-A-Tat, nothing does better than Paragon Motors!
I'm thinking a thesis on CoHI23 would work out well for you. :)Would have to tie it into Medical Informatics. Maybe something about peds patients?
I agree with all of your post, Tony, but wanted to single this aspect out as awesome. The little updates and discussions for all of the successor projects are neat and useful here, but there really are benefits to the in depth communication being elsewhere :)
I'm one of the few people who was really disappointed by the outcome of "Praetorian Fatigue." I'll agree Primal Earth needed some love, but it felt a very unsatisfying way to end things. I get that their Hamidon is uber in a million ways, but evacuating what few people we could and leaving a world to be overrun just made me feel really disappointed.
If anyone on a successor wants to make my day, slipping in a hint about an alternate timeline where valiant heroes refused to gave up and fought the Hamidon back as a team would win my heart, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more.
But that said, gameplaywise? SO FUN. I only got to try badging it once or twice, but it felt like all of the best parts of the other trials without any of the filler. Sure, some filler to start (good for iXP though!) then bam three bosses, one boss, huge boss.
Tanking Tyrant was suuuch an amazing feeling. There really was nothing else like it :)
I may be the one person who feels this way, but I prefer it when games don't have speech, so all of the conversation uses my character's actual name.
If they were isolated, they would be removed - from CoH. This would then deliver less than a game server, and something which was completely unplayable.At least we could write our own substitute in its place and get the source code(if this is NCsofts only concern) then keep going with the original game code.
Would have to tie it into Medical Informatics. Maybe something about peds patients?
Extensive voiceover is probably not a good idea anyway. It's expensive, time-consuming, and much harder to edit. I also never liked hearing somebody else's idea of a voice for my Avatar. It never quite fits.It also adds an other layer of things that need to be done when making new missions, which means that content creation would take longer. When the project eventually finishes re-creating old content and gets onto the creation of new content, it also makes it harder to change things after lines have been recorded.
If it's in a new engine, I think that it's a little silly not to take advantage of said new engine and improve models and textures where appropriate.
I don't mean important stuff like the general look and how the game plays, but inconsequential stuff like the background npc's, textures, stuff like that.. All can be improved to add to the ambience. Look at the rebuild of Atlas Park that Paragon Studios gave us. I don't recall -anyone- not loving it when the devs presented it to us. It was -gorgeous-
Sounds can mostly stay as they are, though maybe some can be muted (super speed, targetting drone), more can be added such as a gentle breeze sound or birds in the background.. Maybe kids playing in the park during the day, a faint hum/sizzle from the war walls when you're near them... Maybe even some weather affects from time to time...
OK, I'm getting carried away now. My point is though, I don't see any harm in little tweaks to improve then overall game world.
At least we could write our own substitute in its place and get the source code(if this is NCsofts only concern) then keep going with the original game code.
PLEASE, PLEASE bear in mind, the updates are hot and heavy at this time and sometimes don't quite play well with others.
If you're going to take this strategy, pick a release and keep all the new folks on it until you move everyone forward. We're having a time of it and we'vre a little more used to the release rates. :)
At the moment I'm stable on 4.0.2. Aside from content, I haven't had a real reason to update past that.
Extensive voiceover is probably not a good idea anyway. It's expensive, time-consuming, and much harder to edit. I also never liked hearing somebody else's idea of a voice for my Avatar. It never quite fits.
Personally... While Voices are neat. I'm against using extensive voice work in an MMO. It's time consuming, it can be expensive, and it drastically limits your ability to modify content, or push new content.
A player will almost never feel quite right having some random voice coming from their character, which would be immersion shattering in a game like City of Heroes.
Speaking of security, another thing they may want to look into should they get the game, update the password system for it. Not allowing the use of special characters is a very very big problem, as even just adding any of @#$%! for example could greatly increase the passwords strength, and reduce the length one has to make a password to really make it secure.
Paragon Motors: Awful car, but cheap to insure!
Paragon Motors, trusted to be thrown by grav control since 2004
The Secret World has done an amazing job utilizing voice work into an MMO. Your character never speaks. Cutscenes are always observing conversations between NPCs or from an NPC to you, not you speaking back.
It does bring the world to life in a way that MMOs could use to attract the younger generation of players. That being said, it should be used sparingly, and a mix of voice and text is the best approach, in my opinion.
So for example:
NPC 1 (V.O.): "So if the Trolls aren't put down fast, Superadine is going to flood the streets. I don't even want to imagine what Skyway City will look like after that happens. Are you in?"
Your character: select one of the following text box responses
[I'm in. Let's move.]
X[I agree, but I have something I have to first. I'll be back, I promise]
[I'm sorry, but this mission isn't for me. Good luck and godspeed.]
x- represents your selection
NPC 1: (V.O.) "OK, but please don't take too long. Those shipments could start hitting the streets any time now."
Also, @Irish Girl: You are amazing. That work you've done is incredible. Not only does it REALLY feel like CoH, it looks even better! I'll be in touch to help once you settle on a way to contact you and begin organizing. I'll be bringing the CS6 suite and my own UE4 to the cause. :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyn_YuMLSNc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyn_YuMLSNc)
Almost there!
I may be the one person who feels this way, but I prefer it when games don't have speech, so all of the conversation uses my character's actual name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyn_YuMLSNc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyn_YuMLSNc)
Almost there!
I literally watched that exact video earlier today. It made me cry, it was so beautifully done!totally agreed.
Nope, you're not the only one. I have trouble focusing on audible communications and just end up feeling lost in games with speech.
I play most MMO's with out sound now I use to rock my kids to sleep in one arm while playing DAOC and it was hard to do with headsets back then they did not have near the wirless options they do now and it was a lot more back then on the ones they did. I just started playing with the sound off so when i transition games I was just use to playing with no sound so I just turn it off and play music.
that's not "good form" for a Blaster,lol :)
I seem to remember a Blaster being thought of as good as long as they didn't die every few seconds, run from the tank when they had aggro, and didn't kill the team by pulling a room the tank wasn't expecting. So, from where I'm standing, you're doing a fine job :)a Blaster that..that..doesn't die ? no such critter,lol ;)
I just thought of another problem with speech. Suppose you want to update something down the road. You have the following choices:
- You try to hire the original voice actor to voice the new content
- You hire a new actor to redo all the content so the voice is consistent throughout the game
- You hire a new actor for the new content and hope the change in voices doesn't break immersion for people
- New content gets no voice overs
It's different in a game that isn't going to be seeing a lot of updates but I wouldn't want theme to be held up over concerns like this.
Ok, so...by special request. New pictures of REALLY unpolished stuff.
Warning: Seriously under construction.
Another minor point about voiceovers is that it isn't terribly friendly for international players or the hearing-impaired.
Another minor point about voiceovers is that it isn't terribly friendly for international players or the hearing-impaired.
Darn it all, I have to stop watching those CoH videos (That one, the "City of Heroes Remains", the original one from
Angry Angels, and of course anything from SamuraiKo). Now I have to type through watery eyes.
Downloading the UnReal 4 client now.
The version is the newest one but I assume you can rollback. I did not see options to get a different one.
I did get word from Codewalker that he is fine with porting Icon over to UnReal 4. Now to figure out how to do all this stuff!
I know the feeling,mate :) but noooo, please post video :)
Not to be rude, hopelives, but that completely ignores the point I'd brought up. And live speech would be even more unhelpful for them, as they couldn't even count on accurate subtitles/translations on the fly.i do understand your point and that not everyone would be able to hear the voice-actors, but that's where your work-a-round ideas would work great for then, no ?
Plus the sheer scale of the voicework for something with the amount of content as CoH would be daunting.
Pretty much this :)
The Secret World was just about the only game that I could bring myself to play after CoH was closed.
The immersive nature of that game was helped immeasurably by the use of speech integrated NPC's.
I would certainly recommend that any revamp of CoH uses speech.
Don't say I did not warn you....i really do understand, and am sorry for your loss. CoH was the last game, the last mmo that my wife and I played before she passed on,and we both loved it. So I do understand how hard it is to go on. Bless You,Mate,always.
While not a professional as others, I thought I did ok with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAFUpmFMaIY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAFUpmFMaIY)
a Blaster that..that..doesn't die ? no such critter,lol ;)
You need to hang out with me.. my Blasters do not die constantly...
You need to hang out with me.. my Blasters do not die constantly...
Water/dark and Archery/mm were pretty big murder-machines.
Ok guys, recall, this is still still very much tentative, so I would not recommend buying anything just yet.
Don't say I did not warn you....Amazing stuff. As a person who got emotionally attached to characters, your Crystal character must have meant the world to you. Got me all choked up thinking about you and your daughter.
While not a professional as others, I thought I did ok with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAFUpmFMaIY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAFUpmFMaIY)
"...we've had discussions you know, like the designers the programmers and I, you know, who've all found other jobs and everything and we're like, could you imagine what would happen if they actually did succeed? In like getting City of Heroes back and like could you imagine them looking through our code trying to figure out exactly what made this game work? And everyone's like, 'That could never happen. They would... they'd be lost...'"
Ok guys, recall, this is still still very much tentative, so I would not recommend buying anything just yet.
I was finally able to watch the Q&A video with Matt Miller about COH's end from way back because of your efforts (it was too soul-crushing before now). And just in case you don't recall, I think you should all be reminded of this particular MM quote:
Why don't you download Unreal 4 and join the efforts?
Ok, so...by special request. New pictures of REALLY unpolished stuff.
Warning: Seriously under construction.
Images will be hidden under spoiler tags, so Agge doesn't smack me with her mod hat.Spoiler for Hidden:The plaza of Steel Canyon's University.Spoiler for Hidden:The first shot of Independence Port.Spoiler for Hidden:
In this picture, you might be able to see the hintings of one of my favorite changes that I'm making.
If you're flying along, and you look out past the War Walls...You can see the rest of Paragon City in the distance.Another shot of I.P. a tad closer to the bridge.Spoiler for Hidden:I have no idea where this is. I think it's from a different game. /sarcasmSpoiler for Hidden:This picture...is Paragon City from above. It should have the War Walls for just about all of the cities zones. Only Atlas Park, Independance Port, and Founders Falls have any of the zone detail showing in this image however.Spoiler for Hidden:
I wonder ... are there plans to include speech in the revamp?
I played Space Invaders on an Atari 800 tape drive.
Holy fudge! These looks awesome! Now I really want to play CoX again...
My first computer game was Pong. Yes, I'm that darned old. But I still remember that rush from knowing that the thing on the screen was moving because *I* told it to. I think that's why I love CoH so much. No other game has captured that pure feeling of being in control of my own computer universe.
That quote always makes megigglecackle like a mad scientist uncontrollably.
If it were Node.js, it would be easy. But we can't all live in divine providence : D
Actually I'm really psyched about UE4 and embarrassed at myself for not realizing how big of a deal it was while moping over COH's apparent death. 19 bucks for anybody? It's a game changer. Still not as painless as Node.js is on the install equation mind you but nothing is perfect.
Whether it pans out or not, I have never seen anything like this happen in my life. I was finally able to watch the Q&A video with Matt Miller about COH's end from way back because of your efforts (it was too soul-crushing before now). And just in case you don't recall, I think you should all be reminded of this particular MM quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYBzs5P3eBs
28:34
I'm pretty sure that guy loved this fanbase but he still underestimated it. I did too.
When Codewalker threatens to keep nerfing regen in I24, that's not just possible, but way too easy for him.That's because CW is scary.
Why is source off the table? Almost certainly IP issues. High risk zero reward for NCSoft.I believe it's because pieces of the code base are shared between City of Heroes, and NCSofts other games. They don't want to give away code they actively use.
Also, Windows 8 sucks. Even Microsoft is backpedaling from it faster than a bear with an umbrella at the circus.No comment. (-whispers- Sucks, SO much.)
7. About that game server. If they get it, I wish them luck making it work.Yeah...Somehow that sounds about right...
It almost melted my brain. Every other question I asked BaB was "Why? Why? WHY???" And he'd just shrug. The game implementation is like that, only more of your brain leaks out of your ears.No small part of the reason some of us are jumping at the excuse to move to a new engine...
That's why Codewalker is the only player I fear. He likes it. That's Cthulhu kinds of wrong.See above. Codewalker is crazy. Also, scary. Crazy scary.
Irish_Girl: I'm happy to see all that work on glintercept is still being used.I've made quite frequent, and extensive use of it so far.
TonyV: notice I posted the off-topic stuff in a post with a ton of on-topic stuff. I still remember my forum-jitsu.[/quotes] So far he's been nice enough not to throw anything at me for sliding off topic at times. Maybe he just didn't notice. -ninja-I just hope it all works out.So do we all. So do we all...
That quote from Matt makes me think of a developer I used to know. He put a time bomb in some of the old code just in case he ever got layed off. He had to reset it every month or so to stop it from going off.
He always thought no one would ever be able to find it or determine what it did.
I got the axe a couple months after he told me so I never found out if anything ever happened from it. Then again, the company did go under just a little while after that... hmmmm.
What an idiot. That would be classed as industrial sabotage. People have gone to prison for that.
Programmers are known for their hubris. Big time.
Only a very small number of us!
Ok guys, recall, this is still still very much tentative, so I would not recommend buying anything just yet.
What an idiot. That would be classed as industrial sabotage. People have gone to prison for that.
Programmers are known for their hubris. Big time.
I absolutely agree, but this was back in the late 90s. No security experts around. Heck, our server room at the time was a group of about 30 NT machines linked together.
IT students thought a great way of getting ahead in the business was to hack into something big, get caught, do some jail time, get recruited upon release.
And folks, that is true. Not only did people think that way, some actually pulled it off.
Of course, these days you get a criminal record, and then bet barred from ever holding any reasonable paying job for your entire life unless you get lucky somehow.
Yep. Barred by the same people who used stunts like that to get into the industry in the first place. :)
That quote from Matt makes me think of a developer I used to know. He put a time bomb in some of the old code just in case he ever got layed off. He had to reset it every month or so to stop it from going off.
He always thought no one would ever be able to find it or determine what it did.
I just thought of another problem with speech. Suppose you want to update something down the road. You have the following choices:Option five: Employ speech synthesis.
- You try to hire the original voice actor to voice the new content
- You hire a new actor to redo all the content so the voice is consistent throughout the game
- You hire a new actor for the new content and hope the change in voices doesn't break immersion for people
- New content gets no voice overs
It's different in a game that isn't going to be seeing a lot of updates but I wouldn't want theme to be held up over concerns like this.
That story was... impressive. It really is one of those moments where a part of me goes "how did CoH never just randomly implode from someone walking backwards, to the left, and then hopping twice?"
Sooooo...
8. Am I concerned MWM solicited Kickstarter money when they were working to try to license CoH? Not at all. This was, and still is a long shot. I funded the Kickstarter knowing that many Kickstarter developments fail, that even if it succeeded in shipping a game it might not be a game I ultimately wanted to play, that no matter what happened it would be years before I saw final results, and knowing that there were other things in motion that might or might not preempt that work. I don't know anything more today than I did when I funded the Kickstarter, and I don't honestly believe anyone else really does either.
Because Paragon Studios worked very, very hard to keep things in a state of barely-falling-apart.
Things like that explain why occasionally...a server or two would just suddenly stop running. Used to joke that an intern kept tripping over power cords.
Just a little nitpick: MWM is not part of the negotiations for the IP/license. Nate (Downix); who is President of MWM, headed the efforts, but his involvement is his involvement and not MWM. At least that is the way I understood things....
Just a little nitpick: MWM is not part of the negotiations for the IP/license. Nate (Downix); who is President of MWM, headed the efforts, but his involvement is his involvement and not MWM. At least that is the way I understood things....This is correct.
Honestly I just want to understand what they mean by a central company licensing the CoX IP, tbh. Would NcSoft still own the IP or are they licensing to the central company liscencing the CoX IP to the successors? To my understanding the company owns the IP but I want to make sure I understand it right.
I'm one of the few people who was really disappointed by the outcome of "Praetorian Fatigue." I'll agree Primal Earth needed some love, but it felt a very unsatisfying way to end things. I get that their Hamidon is uber in a million ways, but evacuating what few people we could and leaving a world to be overrun just made me feel really disappointed.
Sadly, we'll probably never know what Paragon had planned for Pretoria in the future. Of course, with a new team at the helm, there's no reason that Issue 25 (or, more likely, Vol 2, Issue 1) can't have some Incarnates dealing with Pretorian Hamidon while the majority deals with the Battalion.
That story was... impressive. It really is one of those moments where a part of me goes "how did CoH never just randomly implode from someone walking backwards, to the left, and then hopping twice?"
In July (I think) of 2004 Triumph randomly imploded. I was logged in, playing, and poof, d/c. I logged back in and discovered that everyone else had been kicked simultaneously.
Also, I was stuck in a mountain and couldn't get out. At all.
No one I knew with teleport logged back on for quite some time, so while I waited for a friend to teleport me back to the surface world I flew around under the map and randomly shot at the feet of spawns that other players were street sweeping.
That's some serious mind screw there when the game is only a few months old, most of the players aren't really sure what's normal and what's not, they can't see you, you're playing an energy blaster with a lot of knockback, and you can actually shoot critters that are standing on the ground. If you were a player on Triumph in July of 2004, were logged in on crash day, and had critters randomly erupt from the street in Talos Island while you were street sweeping: sorry.
I think after that day, developers were no longer allowed to hop in the office.
I am so tempted to fire up Mids and start planning. I'm holding back to be safe and not get caught up by expectation. But after being away from CoH for so long, I really hope the deal goes through.
That quote always makes megigglecackle like a mad scientist uncontrollably.
3a. Without the source code, are we crippled in terms of adding or altering content? Not necessarily. The game content was not explicitly "programmed" into the game engine, it resided in database files that its no secret people have been decoding and reverse engineering since the days of Iakona (and me, and Codewalker, and lots of others). It is possible, if difficult, to add things like power sets to the game without the explicit source code. It might require some hacks to make work, but nothing outside the wheelhouse of, say, Icon's developers. When Codewalker threatens to keep nerfing regen in I24, that's not just possible, but way too easy for him. Without the appropriate dev tools, some things would be a lot harder than others - like say making those damn escort critters actually follow your ass correctly - but nothing's impossible, even without source. Difficult, possibly prohibitively so in some cases, but anything that only involves data (geography, entity definitions, power definitions, basic mission design) is probably at least somewhat modifiable without source.
Honestly I just want to understand what they mean by a central company licensing the CoX IP, tbh. Would NcSoft still own the IP or are they licensing to the central company liscencing the CoX IP to the successors? To my understanding the company owns the IP but I want to make sure I understand it right.Central company owning the IP, licensing it out to other entity.
That's kind of what I thought... we may be able to keep adding new powers and powersets (animations may be more of an issue), and thus keep issuing new Issues for a while.Database editing, not worried about it.
Another possible advantage may be that the tools used to edit the databases... may well be separate from the rest of the source code. Frankly, they really should be. So it may be possible to acquire database-editing tools for the powers, NPCs, maybe even sounds & animation databases, without having to delve into source code. Especially since we wouldn't want/need to adjust them, so getting an executable database-editing module is good enough, we would not need the source code for it.
7. About that game server. If they get it, I wish them luck making it work. Its not impossible, of course, but I know a little something about how the game servers worked, and without saying something that will get me banned from the ... oh wait, I forgot, I'm not rambling on the game forums this time. Because I'm not affiliated with any group or team, I can't get anyone in trouble but myself here, so I'll just say for those speculating, no, the game server wasn't a bunch of Linux boxes or anything like that: it was Windows based. It had several moving parts. It was clunky. When someone decided to herd up all of Crey's Folly and nuke it and crashed the entire Freedom server, someone was probably RDPing into something and restarting something. Like manually. Running CoH servers on a large scale (i.e. enough players to run a Magisterium or more) is not just about spinning up some AWS instances and running the installer. Its about loading the right hamsters in the right wheels next to the right water bottles and then cleaning their cages periodically while making sure they don't fall asleep or eat each other.
And they get hungry.
I don't want to be a worry-wart or a nay-sayer, because I really, really want to go home again...
But I'm pretty much in the habit of "if Arcana says it, I believe it" from the old forum days.
And this statement reads to me like: "Even IF they manage to get the I23 binaries, there's a good chance things still won't work and we won't be getting back to Paragon anytime before 1.5 and/or the successors"
I certainly hope and pray that's not the case.
Amazing stuff. As a person who got emotionally attached to characters, your Crystal character must have meant the world to you. Got me all choked up thinking about you and your daughter.
I certainly hope and pray that's not the case.
I've gotta re-iterate this as well. There's still no guarantees. Don't start spending a bunch of money on stuff just yet.
Sadly, we'll probably never know what Paragon had planned for Pretoria in the future. Of course, with a new team at the helm, there's no reason that Issue 25 (or, more likely, Vol 2, Issue 1) can't have some Incarnates dealing with Pretorian Hamidon while the majority deals with the Battalion.
That's an EXCELLENT suggestion. Putting some kind of functionality for saving a costume you created within the app and importing it into the game would be invaluable. I'm imagining some people in the community having jobs where they travel and can't always log in. But, while they're in a hotel, they can tinker around on the app on their iPad or Android device and come up with some ideas for a new toon.
I know some of the coding members of our community's heads would explode, but wouldn't it be cool to have an app for Mid's Hero Designer as well? Or....even better, make the costume creator and Mid's into one standalone "Hero Designer" app that allows you to literally design your hero from the ground up (costume creation AND power selections)! I'd pay for that!
Of course, with a new team at the helm, there's no reason that Issue 25 (or, more likely, Vol 2, Issue 1) can't have some Incarnates dealing with Pretorian Hamidon while the majority deals with the Battalion.
I will warn you, however. Something nobody thought to tell me when I got into learning Game creation. Get into it far enough, and you'll never look at games the same way. You start to look at how you think things were built, and how you might build them better/differently. Seriously, I look at games and I like...see Wireframes and scripts, lol.
From someone who plays EQ2...trust me, it's not as awesome as you expect. Occasionally kinda cool, like the Sarnak newbie quests, but more often annoying, glitchy, and repetitive.
I kind of like the whole "Volume 2, Issue 1" thing. I've wondered.. Would Revival's first issue be...Issue 1? or Issue 24?
and either way, isn't that a little confusing?
I'm just hoping that, if this deal works out, We can finally see what Battalion was going to look like!
Ok, so...by special request. New pictures of REALLY unpolished stuff.
Warning: Seriously under construction.
Images will be hidden under spoiler tags, so Agge doesn't smack me with her mod hat.Spoiler for Hidden:The plaza of Steel Canyon's University.Spoiler for Hidden:The first shot of Independence Port.Spoiler for Hidden:
In this picture, you might be able to see the hintings of one of my favorite changes that I'm making.
If you're flying along, and you look out past the War Walls...You can see the rest of Paragon City in the distance.Another shot of I.P. a tad closer to the bridge.Spoiler for Hidden:I have no idea where this is. I think it's from a different game. /sarcasmSpoiler for Hidden:This picture...is Paragon City from above. It should have the War Walls for just about all of the cities zones. Only Atlas Park, Independance Port, and Founders Falls have any of the zone detail showing in this image however.Spoiler for Hidden:
I will warn you, however. Something nobody thought to tell me when I got into learning Game creation. Get into it far enough, and you'll never look at games the same way. You start to look at how you think things were built, and how you might build them better/differently. Seriously, I look at games and I like...see Wireframes and scripts, lol.
I'm on Freeport and Nagafen! ;D And yeah, you think voiceovers are bad there, try Elder Scrolls Online. Zenimax actually got rid of some of them-- including this long-winded banker girl that would give you a five-minute spiel every single time you tried to put something into or withdraw something out of the bank. OY. Personally I think voiceovers are the least of our worries, and get annoying and repetitive fast. At least you can blindly click through the banker chat in a chat window-based NPC chat MMO.
I will warn you, however. Something nobody thought to tell me when I got into learning Game creation. Get into it far enough, and you'll never look at games the same way. You start to look at how you think things were built, and how you might build them better/differently. Seriously, I look at games and I like...see Wireframes and scripts, lol.
That's why Codewalker is the only player I fear. He likes it. That's Cthulhu kinds of wrong.
I will warn you, however. Something nobody thought to tell me when I got into learning Game creation. Get into it far enough, and you'll never look at games the same way. You start to look at how you think things were built, and how you might build them better/differently. Seriously, I look at games and I like...see Wireframes and scripts, lol.
On the topic of folks downloading/learning/using Unreal Engine 4:
Should one have any prerequisite knowledge? Know how to program in one or more languages first? Would a program like Blender make constructs that would then plug in to Unreal Engine 4, or is the capability of making such constructs already a part of UE4?
Looks like I gots some research to do. TO THE INTERNET-MOBILE!!
Assets like models, and textures have to be built in 3rd party programs such as 3DS Max, and Photoshop. Blender's a good free alternative to Max. I don't use it myself, but I've seen good things built with it. Really, you can use any 3D modeling program that can export in .FBX.
As for textures... I use GIMP. It's fairly robust, and I no longer have a copy of Photoshop. While there are certainly things Photoshop can do that GIMP can't...I've found them to be pretty irrelevant.
Assets like models, and textures have to be built in 3rd party programs such as 3DS Max, and Photoshop. Blender's a good free alternative to Max. I don't use it myself, but I've seen good things built with it. Really, you can use any 3D modeling program that can export in .FBX.
As for textures... I use GIMP. It's fairly robust, and I no longer have a copy of Photoshop. While there are certainly things Photoshop can do that GIMP can't...I've found them to be pretty irrelevant.
Personally, If people want to learn Unreal Engine 4...Go and buy it. Drop 20 bucks, then cancel your sub. I encourage people learning this stuff. It's a lot of fun, and you learn a lot about how/why certain things are they way they are in games.
Irish_Girl: Will APR have any type of Beta test schedule planed? For what its worth, you got my support!
Assets like models, and textures have to be built in 3rd party programs such as 3DS Max, and Photoshop. Blender's a good free alternative to Max. I don't use it myself, but I've seen good things built with it. Really, you can use any 3D modeling program that can export in .FBX.
As for textures... I use GIMP. It's fairly robust, and I no longer have a copy of Photoshop. While there are certainly things Photoshop can do that GIMP can't...I've found them to be pretty irrelevant.
You see these are the things we need to pool and link to - all the software and engines used so we have a standard version and can freely work back and forth.
any thought of putting together a kickstarter, or similar effort, to raise money for this project? seems a rather prodigious amount of work and some additional assistance with tools, people, project management, etc would likely help.Do you mean a kickstarter for buying the I.P., or for funding Revival?
Between MWM, H&V, APR, Valiance, and CoH revival/binary, this group has almost created the game version of marvel's movie universe...
3a. Without the source code, are we crippled in terms of adding or altering content? Not necessarily. The game content was not explicitly "programmed" into the game engine, it resided in database files that its no secret people have been decoding and reverse engineering since the days of Iakona (and me, and Codewalker, and lots of others). It is possible, if difficult, to add things like power sets to the game without the explicit source code. It might require some hacks to make work, but nothing outside the wheelhouse of, say, Icon's developers. When Codewalker threatens to keep nerfing regen in I24, that's not just possible, but way too easy for him. Without the appropriate dev tools, some things would be a lot harder than others - like say making those damn escort critters actually follow your ass correctly - but nothing's impossible, even without source. Difficult, possibly prohibitively so in some cases, but anything that only involves data (geography, entity definitions, power definitions, basic mission design) is probably at least somewhat modifiable without source.That's good to hear. You never know what can happen if something is possible. The desire for I24 might be strong enough to make the possible a reality.
Also, Windows 8 sucks. Even Microsoft is backpedaling from it faster than a bear with an umbrella at the circus.My gf certainly hates it with a passion. She rarely gets angry...but Win 8 does the trick.
11. Pherdnut: I spent over six months getting to about 70% awareness of how the animation system worked and how it interacted with the combat engine when the game was still alive, circa 2007ish. At that time, I probably knew the details as well as anyone. It almost melted my brain. Every other question I asked BaB was "Why? Why? WHY???" And he'd just shrug. The game implementation is like that, only more of your brain leaks out of your ears. That's why Codewalker is the only player I fear. He likes it. That's Cthulhu kinds of wrong.There must be some difference between this and the "source code", right? Because my mind is not understanding how CoH had such a messy mess that seems to have been created especially for it....but then it may be being used in other NCSoft games? I'm not quite understanding the process that would allow for the mess to happen in the first place...I understand even less that the company would then use that mess for other games. The one benefit to "the mess" in my mind was that it would be useless to NCSoft because it couldn't be used for other games...now I'm hearing the opposite. Or I think that's what I'm hearing...that can't be right, can it?
The support is appreciated! Unfortunately, I couldn't even hazard as a guess at a release schedule yet.
I think I can pretty comfortably say it would prolly be before 2020. Yeah... Almost definitely before 2020.
There must be some difference between this and the "source code", right? Because my mind is not understanding how CoH had such a messy mess that seems to have been created especially for it....but then it may be being used in other NCSoft games? I'm not quite understanding the process that would allow for the mess to happen in the first place...I understand even less that the company would then use that mess for other games. The one benefit to "the mess" in my mind was that it would be useless to NCSoft because it couldn't be used for other games...now I'm hearing the opposite. Or I think that's what I'm hearing...that can't be right, can it?
I see this a little differently, I see that a LOT of work is going to have to be done to get any of these games working. Anything we can add to the mix means less work for whatever one of these things makes it into production. I do see a possibility that we have 4 failed games and the Original chugging along alone.
However since WE are making things - not NCSoft if one part fails we can hand the work over to a remaining part.
I kinda get the impression that some folks think CoH1.5 won't be too difficult to do, when in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. Whilst it IS in effect, just copying the existing game, it STILL has to be written from scratch! All the assets must be re-created (zone maps, mission maps, objects, textures, animations), the UI written, the power mechanisms design, the mission system done, the chat system, enhancements, inventions, IO's, -everything-. The only slightly easier thing it's got going for it is that we know the numbers for the powersets.
It's every bit as big a job as the successor projects, and will be MUCH more prone to criticism as it's meant to be replicating CoH.
It's not impossible, but it's absolutely NOT an easy job, by any shake of the imagination. Don't expecting it to launch with Windows 9 (which is the initial impression I got from Nate's post, and I'm sure others thought that too).
Irish_Girl has a HUGE job here, and I wish her all the best for it, but it's not gonna be quick.
I kinda get the impression that some folks think CoH1.5 won't be too difficult to do, when in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. Whilst it IS in effect, just copying the existing game, it STILL has to be written from scratch! All the assets must be re-created (zone maps, mission maps, objects, textures, animations), the UI written, the power mechanisms design, the mission system done, the chat system, enhancements, inventions, IO's, -everything-. The only slightly easier thing it's got going for it is that we know the numbers for the powersets.
It's every bit as big a job as the successor projects, and will be MUCH more prone to criticism as it's meant to be replicating CoH.
It's not impossible, but it's absolutely NOT an easy job, by any shake of the imagination. Don't expecting it to launch with Windows 9 (which is the initial impression I got from Nate's post, and I'm sure others thought that too).
Irish_Girl has a HUGE job here, and I wish her all the best for it, but it's not gonna be quick.
Yes and no, all of the existing missions and lore are their already written for 1.5 to start. The prot over is not easy - but it is easier than creating new worlds completely. The other side of it is to start off you don't need new content - you just need everything back in place under the new engine and with the new graphics so that you can start new development.
I would not expect to see new stuff on opening day - just having all the old stuff back up and running in UR4 would be awesome.
Yes and no, all of the existing missions and lore are there already written for 1.5 to start. The port over is not easy - but it is easier than creating new worlds completely. The other side of it is to start off you don't need new content - you just need everything back in place under the new engine and with the new graphics so that you can start new development.
I would not expect to see new stuff on opening day - just having all the old stuff back up and running in UR4 would be awesome.
Also keeping in mind the fact that a lot of objects from CoH have aged very poorly. My intent is to raise the bar for CoH's graphic fidelity. So a lot of asset's and especially textures have to be re-created from scratch, or quite heavily modified from the original.
Because of the fairly recent Revamp of the zone, Atlas Park has a benefit that most everything in the zone is only a couple years old. So not as much work needs to be done there. Praetoria will also share that silver lining.
As for the time consumption from the coding aspect... This is a huge reason why the agreement is in place between Revival and MWM to build off of City of Titan's code base. So...say...Instead of having to build a character system from the ground up, we'll instead be modifying one to fit Revival's needs. Seems to make more sense than having 2 teams building near identical code from scratch.
It is quite a large job, which is why I'm hoping to recruit some hopefully talented people to work on it with me. Don't expect it to be done quick, or to be in beta next month just because "It's just coh".
Also, I should have FloatingFatMan be my PR whenever I want people to think my work is REALLY hard.
Also, I should have FloatingFatMan be my PR whenever I want people to think my work is REALLY hard.
I have found this to be true with most any form of production. I've done a little bit of coding, web design, audio production, and video production over the years and I find that very often while using/listening/watching some piece of content I often wonder how it was made, and how I would do it if I had to re-create it.Must work the same for every industry. My poor brother is not fond of pizza because he used to work at a pizza place in high school.
On the subject of voice work... I'm not currently planning on adding Voice work to Revival. That's not to say it's never going to happen, ever. But if it did...It would be around like...the 4th or 5th issue at the earliest.
...I'd have to spend at least that long finding the right voices for the characters.
Must work the same for every industry. My poor brother is not fond of pizza because he used to work at a pizza place in high school.
And I listen to music differently than most people. I'll notice a cool hi-hat part or bass line while other people only seem to hear the lead vocal.
Amen to that.THANK YOU ONE AND ALL!!!
It's a benefit and a curse. On the one hand, it's A LOT of time saved. We're not having to design a new world, and write all the stories. They already exist.
On the other hand... People know what the world is, and how things look. They've got a certain expectation of how things are.
I fully expect the first couple weeks of Revival's beta to be a FLOOD of bug reports that basically read "This sign post is supposed to be 4 further down the road. And the color of the sky isn't quite blue enough."
I think one of the biggest challenge you may face will be base building. I remember asking why can't we get the stuff in Pocket D into our base (pool table, the Jack Daniel bottles, etc) and WarBase, a veteran basemaker said he asked Matt Miller the same question the response was the code left behind from the old dev team (Jack's) was so integrated with the system, you move one thing, it breaks another. Don't know if you are going to run into that problem or even planned to do base making yet.
Heh, I probably see it a bit clearer than many because I'm a programmer by trade, have been for over 20 years. I don't write games, but I DO write huge, complicated application software. Right now we're working on porting all our legacy VB6 code over to C#. This is going to take us at LEAST 2 years, just to get back to the current status quo... And this is just a sales/invoicing/production system...
Bases are a planned feature, one that I'm looking forward to. I can say that I want to drastically increase how much stuff you guys have available to place in bases, and the kinds of things you can do in a base. I also love Base Raiding. So, it's safe to expect to see it.
The main issue with any "code reuse" isn't actually going to be code reuse as such.. It's pretty unlikely any of the game code in CoH lives on in other NCSoft games as it's the only product Cryptic wrote under NCSoft's publishing banner.Ok, that makes sense. Thanks FFM.
What WILL be a problem though, is any code that talks to NCSoft's accounts systems. This is stuff like the login authentication, store access, content gated behind being a subscriber... They're not going to want anyone to see that, and they're probably not going to want the bother of digging it out of the CoH codebase to remove it.
Because my mind is not understanding how CoH had such a messy mess that seems to have been created especially for it....but then it may be being used in other NCSoft games? I'm not quite understanding the process that would allow for the mess to happen in the first place...I understand even less that the company would then use that mess for other games. The one benefit to "the mess" in my mind was that it would be useless to NCSoft because it couldn't be used for other games...now I'm hearing the opposite. Or I think that's what I'm hearing...that can't be right, can it?
and the sun never DID move east to west or the moon for that matter.
It's a benefit and a curse. On the one hand, it's A LOT of time saved. We're not having to design a new world, and write all the stories. They already exist.Hmmm....I'm kind of expecting and dare I say...looking forward to little changes like that. Heck...even fairly big changes to how some things look wouldn't bother me. Kinda like the different Captain America costumes in the three movies he's in....they all work for me.
On the other hand... People know what the world is, and how things look. They've got a certain expectation of how things are.
I fully expect the first couple weeks of Revival's beta to be a FLOOD of bug reports that basically read "This sign post is supposed to be 4 further down the road. And the color of the sky isn't quite blue enough."
(How's your moving going? What am I asking-- moving is always a major pain in the butt! You poor thing, you should take a vacation once you're done....)
And as far as any voiceovers in APR go, I don't know that it'd be worth it in the end. Do you know how Hellgate: London's developers Flagship Studios, funded with mega millions and headed by former Blizzard folk, went down in a burning ball of flame? They tried to do too much and make their game everything to everybody, nothing ever got finished, eventually they had to launch anyway and it all fell apart.
Just think about the work ahead for APR: Trying to get all the zones, every NPC, every quest, every class and subclass and power set and costume piece and body shape in from Praetoria, the Rogue Isles and Paragon City..... This took what, over 100 people at many points probably over a decade of full-time work (and probably longer days) to bring CoX to Issue 23? Granted they were down to 15 people left I think when Cryptic split, but they were a lot larger than anything we've got going here for most of that decade and as Paragon Studios. I'm not saying it won't ever get done (and I'm not saying it ever will either), but they had a lot more experience than most of us do here, and adding unnecessary extra burdens like voiceovers that may only rapidly become player annoyances down the road anyway seems detrimental.
Oh, and while I am trying to find my place in this potential APR outfit whether it winds up being eventual digital security, or menial, basic, repetitive tasking (copying missions over?) or what have you, I'd just like to ask: Do we get our assets for Blender transitioning from the torrent download? Let me dig around and try to find it. NCSoft so nicely deleted CoX out of my NC Launcher and off my computer without my knowledge or consent right after the shutdown. Will the Icon download help? I had that on my PC after the shutdown but just reformatted earlier this week.
and the sun never DID move east to west or the moon for that matter.
Well... So far... I've spent far too much time answering questions, and not enough packing! Ack! I'm not good at slowly working up to a move, lol.
I agree on the subject of voice overs. Especially when the same time and effort could instead be spent giving player's the ability to ride a Motorcycle, or add in new zones, new TFs. What about a Praetorian Seer Epic AT? More base items?
As for the torrent... It should just be the CoH client with ICON tossed in. Which is what I use to get my rips from, yes. There's a certain amount of setting up to get them however. Which is something I'll sit down and document later.
Coincidentally... Revival's sun also doesn't currently move east to west. It's moving NW to SE If memory serves.
Personally, I think the original CoH base system is one thing you should NOT try to replicate. It was ugly as sin and made it a right chore to get anything decent looking.
You can do better, loads better. :p Personally.. I kinda like how they do it in DCUO. Just a collection of big empty rooms you can decorate how you like. Just don't gate the furnishings behind drops and let the users buy additional rooms to add on to it (including multiple levels).
Hmmm....I'm kind of expecting and dare I say...looking forward to little changes like that. Heck...even fairly big changes to how some things look wouldn't bother me. Kinda like the different Captain America costumes in the three movies he's in....they all work for me.Don't expect Revival to be an exact Carbon copy of City of Heroes. Obviously, It would be madly impractical for the team to ensure that every little thing like sign posts are pixel perfectly placed.
The whole code reuse thing is pure speculation that people are throwing out there as a possibility.Thanks to you as well, CW.
The one instance of code reuse that I think is likely is in the authentication code. I know for a fact that COH uses a modified version of the Lineage II authentication protocol to log in, so it's likely that component is built off of NCSoft's code rather than Cryptic's.
Beyond that, I doubt it. I think it's very unlikely that anyone currently working for NCSoft has even looked at the code, much less has any idea how it works. That's quite possibly part of the problem.
In order to offer it as part of the deal, they'd have to get experienced programmers to pick it apart and make a list of issues for the lawyers to vet. Things like proprietary info specific to NCSoft's server environment, commercial code licensed from third parties that needs to be accounted for, etc. Off the top of my head it's apparent from disassembling the binary that quite a few libraries are statically linked, an audit of those would need to be done to determine if they are allowed to redistribute them / transfer the license and under what conditions. They would also need to remove any pieces that can't be transferred, which would likely leave it in an unbuildable (though not necessarily unsalvagable) state. Things get murky if there are any instances of third-party code copied into the main source, and from what I hear the COH programmers looooved CTRL+C/CTRL+V.
Given that they don't have anyone on staff experienced with the code (and we can assume from dev statements that it's not well documented), that's a very big project, and it would take quite a lucrative offer to make it worth the cost of undertaking.
Alternatively, it could just be that parting with source code they own is something that they simply Do Not Do, Under Any Circumstance. It's not an uncommon attitude in the corporate software world. NCSoft has licensed binaries to people before -- several of their games in the European market are operated by third parties -- but they don't get access to the source and are dependent on NCSoft for patches and updates. As far as I know, they have never sold or licensed source code to anyone.
Don't you mean ride on nemesis steam ponies?Yes. Yes, I do.
You're gonna fix that, right? ;)
... AFTER you've finished your packing, though!
Don't expect Revival to be an exact Carbon copy of City of Heroes. Obviously, It would be madly impractical for the team to ensure that every little thing like sign posts are pixel perfectly placed.
There might be other changes to. Like..You ever notice how there's no real hospital in the city? Those little medical clinics are fine for Medivacing a bruised up Her...but how many civilians do you think have their babies there?
There's not going to be grand sweeping changes like the AP Revamp, or the DA makeover. But do expect to see some stuff here and there.
It's just something I haven't bothered to get around to. It's a simple matter of changing the Rotation value of the blueprint that drives the day/night cycle. ;P That's a fix for lackeys.
Nate and I do have to make sure that if this deal falls through... We don't want to have a mob of people with fire and pitchforks calling for one, or both, of our heads because people spent money.
Personally, If people want to learn Unreal Engine 4...Go and buy it. Drop 20 bucks, then cancel your sub. I encourage people learning this stuff. It's a lot of fun, and you learn a lot about how/why certain things are they way they are in games.
However, if you're buying it because you want to contribute to Revival. Wait. I'd hate to have people pony up cash, just for us to get a no-go from above. That is only partially due to the above listed fear of Pitchfork-wielding mobs.
I will warn you, however. Something nobody thought to tell me when I got into learning Game creation. Get into it far enough, and you'll never look at games the same way. You start to look at how you think things were built, and how you might build them better/differently. Seriously, I look at games and I like...see Wireframes and scripts, lol.
Personally, I think the original CoH base system is one thing you should NOT try to replicate. It was ugly as sin and made it a right chore to get anything decent looking.
You can do better, loads better. :p Personally.. I kinda like how they do it in DCUO. Just a collection of big empty rooms you can decorate how you like. Just don't gate the furnishings behind drops and let the users buy additional rooms to add on to it (including multiple levels).
You know what I always felt CoH was missing in the zones? Ambience! It never really FELT like a real city... Starting from the looks and working all the way down to dogs barking, traffic jams, kids playing in parks, WEATHER!!!
Now I know people would complain if you remodelled places so they actually looked more like a real city (including more realistic roads and hills etc), but it'd sure help the ambience!
Imagine playing CoH in a zone that looked something like those in such games as Watch_Dogs or GTA V...
That was probably Paragon's reasoning too, and thus it got forgotten about! ;)
Dot the i's and cross the t's, dear! :p
You know what I always felt CoH was missing in the zones? Ambience! It never really FELT like a real city... Starting from the looks and working all the way down to dogs barking, traffic jams, kids playing in parks, WEATHER!!!
Now I know people would complain if you remodelled places so they actually looked more like a real city (including more realistic roads and hills etc), but it'd sure help the ambience!
Imagine playing CoH in a zone that looked something like those in such games as Watch_Dogs or GTA V...
Also keeping in mind the fact that a lot of objects from CoH have aged very poorly. My intent is to raise the bar for CoH's graphic fidelity. So a lot of asset's and especially textures have to be re-created from scratch, or quite heavily modified from the original.
Because of the fairly recent Revamp of the zone, Atlas Park has a benefit that most everything in the zone is only a couple years old. So not as much work needs to be done there. Praetoria will also share that silver lining.
As for the time consumption from the coding aspect... This is a huge reason why the agreement is in place between Revival and MWM to build off of City of Titan's code base. So...say...Instead of having to build a character system from the ground up, we'll instead be modifying one to fit Revival's needs. Seems to make more sense than having 2 teams building near identical code from scratch.
It is quite a large job, which is why I'm hoping to recruit some hopefully talented people to work on it with me. Don't expect it to be done quick, or to be in beta next month just because "It's just coh".
Also, I should have FloatingFatMan be my PR whenever I want people to think my work is REALLY hard.
Speaking of stuff that I felt was missing freeways outside of Skyway. Just seems odd. Not saying put in freeway in other zones because I guess Skyway Freeway is what gives Skyway it's identity, but just seems off xD
I wondered about that myself... Skyway always just kind of felt like there were freeways just for the sake of having freeways. Very, very odd.
A couple weeks ago, I briefly considered nuking Skyway City from orbit and just making up some story as to why it didn't exist anymore. lol.
Oh, don't do that! Let's fix it instead. I always that that Skyway should be a zone with two layers. One bright, shiny and in the sky (new buildings, hi-tech look) and another below the freeways (derelict buildings, sewer entrances almost maze like)
I would keep it as is to start and then revamp it after everything is working.
Irish Girl, I repeat my offer to go back through this thread and collect up the folk that are offering to help and send you a list of them. I'll contact them and collect emails for you as well, if you wish. Then you can merge them with the ones who contacted you directly.
Even if you don't want me as a designer, I'm a whiz at really boring stuff like list management, drupal, and other officy stuff.
Oh, don't do that! Let's fix it instead. I always that that Skyway should be a zone with two layers. One bright, shiny and in the sky (new buildings, hi-tech look) and another below the freeways (derelict buildings, sewer entrances almost maze like)
I would keep it as is to start and then revamp it after everything is working.
Repeat? Oh dear, did I miss a first offer? If so, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to... D:
Thanks for the offer, I'll pass for the moment. I want to set up something a little more organized over on the APR forums after the move.
EDIT:
Nevermind, seems fixed today. I was trying to post yesterday, and it wasn't working. I was just able to post a couple minutes ago.
I kinda get the impression that some folks think CoH1.5 won't be too difficult to do, when in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. Whilst it IS in effect, just copying the existing game, it STILL has to be written from scratch! All the assets must be re-created (zone maps, mission maps, objects, textures, animations), the UI written, the power mechanisms design, the mission system done, the chat system, enhancements, inventions, IO's, -everything-. The only slightly easier thing it's got going for it is that we know the numbers for the powersets.
It's every bit as big a job as the successor projects, and will be MUCH more prone to criticism as it's meant to be replicating CoH.
It's not impossible, but it's absolutely NOT an easy job, by any shake of the imagination. Don't expecting it to launch with Windows 9 (which is the initial impression I got from Nate's post, and I'm sure others thought that too).
Irish_Girl has a HUGE job here, and I wish her all the best for it, but it's not gonna be quick.
Personally, I think the original CoH base system is one thing you should NOT try to replicate. It was ugly as sin and made it a right chore to get anything decent looking.This is much along the lines CoT is planning.
You can do better, loads better. :p Personally.. I kinda like how they do it in DCUO. Just a collection of big empty rooms you can decorate how you like. Just don't gate the furnishings behind drops and let the users buy additional rooms to add on to it (including multiple levels).
As far as the rest goes...from what I understand Valiance Online, and Heroes and Villains have both turned down the offers of inclusion into the CoH-verse.
That would just leave Revival, City of Titans, and Legacy City of Heroes under the banner.
Do you have a rough(very rough) estimate for how long it should be for a deal decision? ie weeks, months, ets or will everyone refreshing this conversation cause tony to implode from bandwith costs? :oIt could take months, honestly. Until the deal is set it is slow going.
That was probably Paragon's reasoning too, and thus it got forgotten about! ;)True on the city feel. I always wanted to race the cars running beside them or jump on the roof and car surf down the street. :P
Dot the i's and cross the t's, dear! :p
This makes sense. There are lots of example of this that you can take inspiration from. FF7 Has Midgar where this is demonstrated
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=img3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130423225800%2Ffinalfantasy%2Fimages%2F0%2F0f%2FFf7-midgar.jpg)
Another example would be from Deus Ex Human Revolution
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.joystickdivision.com%2FDeus%2520Ex%2520Hangsha_small.jpg)
I'm not sure how VO's copy/paste of CoH is going to fly if they aren't part of the deal.
True on the city feel. I always wanted to race the cars running beside them or jump on the roof and car surf down the street. :P
It certainly could have used improvement. The ability to stack and clip things, I think, are crucial.
and I seriously always wanted multiple floors. That would have been so amazing.
I wondered about that myself... Skyway always just kind of felt like there were freeways just for the sake of having freeways. Very, very odd.
A couple weeks ago, I briefly considered nuking Skyway City from orbit and just making up some story as to why it didn't exist anymore. lol.
And either smaller doorways or (and this would be preferred) the ability to place things in a doorway. That being said, let's not put the cart before the horse.
First, we need the game! ;)
The whole code reuse thing is pure speculation that people are throwing out there as a possibility.
The one instance of code reuse that I think is likely is in the authentication code. I know for a fact that COH uses a modified version of the Lineage II authentication protocol to log in, so it's likely that component is built off of NCSoft's code rather than Cryptic's.
Beyond that, I doubt it. I think it's very unlikely that anyone currently working for NCSoft has even looked at the code, much less has any idea how it works. That's quite possibly part of the problem.
In order to offer it as part of the deal, they'd have to get experienced programmers to pick it apart and make a list of issues for the lawyers to vet. Things like proprietary info specific to NCSoft's server environment, commercial code licensed from third parties that needs to be accounted for, etc. Off the top of my head it's apparent from disassembling the binary that quite a few libraries are statically linked, an audit of those would need to be done to determine if they are allowed to redistribute them / transfer the license and under what conditions. They would also need to remove any pieces that can't be transferred, which would likely leave it in an unbuildable (though not necessarily unsalvagable) state. Things get murky if there are any instances of third-party code copied into the main source, and from what I hear the COH programmers looooved CTRL+C/CTRL+V.
Speaking of which... I created a forum account over there, but I can't seem to post. Every time I click post, nothing happens except the post button changing to a "saving post" message, but the post never appears.
Also, that Deus Ex pic is AMAZING.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.joystickdivision.com%2FDeus%2520Ex%2520Hangsha_small.jpg)
EDIT:
Nevermind, seems fixed today. I was trying to post yesterday, and it wasn't working. I was just able to post a couple minutes ago.
I will warn you, however. Something nobody thought to tell me when I got into learning Game creation. Get into it far enough, and you'll never look at games the same way. You start to look at how you think things were built, and how you might build them better/differently. Seriously, I look at games and I like...see Wireframes and scripts, lol.
I look at games, particularly MMOs, and I see ... a need to improve math programs in the US education system.
I look at games, particularly MMOs, and I see ... a need to improve math programs in the US education system.
The math wizard waves
Heh, I probably see it a bit clearer than many because I'm a programmer by trade, have been for over 20 years. I don't write games, but I DO write huge, complicated application software. Right now we're working on porting all our legacy VB6 code over to C#. This is going to take us at LEAST 2 years, just to get back to the current status quo... And this is just a sales/invoicing/production system...
These youngsters, unfortunately not many games are written in the COBOL and FORTRAN that I did most of my programming in :)
These youngsters, unfortunately not many games are written in the COBOL and FORTRAN that I did most of my programming in :)
I learned fortran 4 on punched cards....loooong time ago
Actually I see a sore lack of physics knowledge when I see mmorpg gameplay. They just do all hit rolls wheres the real projectiles? Actually I can only think of one, no, three real time strategy games even where physics truely mattered in rts's. So that leaves me feeling games still have a ways to go when it comes to physics. At least mmorpgs for sure need physics to matter more.
Edit: I know, went a little in the head upstairs in this one but, really. If a fireball follows me, it's hit roles, if I can sidestep it, it's physics. If throwing a projectile that weighs more than may other projecties causes it to fall short due to my applying the same velocity/force, compared to others, thats physics.
Quote from: Arcana on Today at 07:08:04 am
That's why Codewalker is the only player I fear. He likes it. That's Cthulhu kinds of wrong.
When I beta tested Champions Online, I decided to analyze the effectiveness and performance of the defensive powers (of course). I concluded they were wildly unbalanced, and in some cases explicitly broken mechanically.
I will warn you, however. Something nobody thought to tell me when I got into learning Game creation. Get into it far enough, and you'll never look at games the same way. You start to look at how you think things were built, and how you might build them better/differently. Seriously, I look at games and I like...see Wireframes and scripts, lol.
The difference being game designers are often explicitly not trying to do accurate physics. But I don't think most game designers are explicitly not trying to do accurate arithmetic.
When I beta tested Champions Online, I decided to analyze the effectiveness and performance of the defensive powers (of course). I concluded they were wildly unbalanced, and in some cases explicitly broken mechanically. I summarized my observations and sent them to the devs, asking if they wanted to discuss further. I never heard back from them the three separate times I tried. When they launched, players complained they were horribly unbalanced and in some cases broken. The devs posted something that basically said trust us, we have a spreadsheet.
That's when I stopped testing Champions Online. You can't argue with "I have a spreadsheet, ergo I'm right." Even if the math is so horribly wrong that not only can you prove its wrong, you can even prove what must have gone wrong in the sheet without even looking at it (which I posted, then went back to testing combat clocks in City of Heroes and really didn't bother analyzing CO very much past that point).
You see these are the things we need to pool and link to - all the software and engines used so we have a standard version and can freely work back and forth.
Heh, I probably see it a bit clearer than many because I'm a programmer by trade, have been for over 20 years. I don't write games, but I DO write huge, complicated application software. Right now we're working on porting all our legacy VB6 code over to C#. This is going to take us at LEAST 2 years, just to get back to the current status quo... And this is just a sales/invoicing/production system...
Might I suggest a brief conversation with some MWM folks. I bet they have a lot of that kind of thing already pooled.
Personally, I think the original CoH base system is one thing you should NOT try to replicate. It was ugly as sin and made it a right chore to get anything decent looking.
You can do better, loads better. :p Personally.. I kinda like how they do it in DCUO. Just a collection of big empty rooms you can decorate how you like. Just don't gate the furnishings behind drops and let the users buy additional rooms to add on to it (including multiple levels).
I still want my little bookstore that you have to go and move a particular statue and book in order to open up the base. :)
I feel your pain FFM.
That's the kind of thing that always drove me crazy. Does the VB6 code still work correctly? Does it need things that can only be written in C#?
I only spent a year as a code monkey but about 12 doing all the surrounding support. Everything from Configman to Sys Admin to Application Manager and support.
These youngsters, unfortunately not many games are written in the COBOL and FORTRAN that I did most of my programming in :)
As for Skyway. Leave it alone. Though it was infuriating without travel powers... :P I had a bit of fun there on the way up to L22 and SOs... The Lost, Clocks etc always gave me a hard time. But russian roulette on street sweeps... *eye twitches.
It's like the Hollows or Perez. It has it's own charm. All the zones in vanilla CoH did.
I was so fond of the original zones I didn't like them being revamped in a way.
The worst revamp being the patronising Hollows revamp. It was better before. Even better when Tanks could pull half the map... :D
Azrael.
oh, it works... But our main client is in the throws of moving to Windows 8, and though the apps themselves work fine in that, the IDE is another matter entirely...
We could have PvE raids too, where you have to defend the base you built from waves of enemies! That way, even the lonely 1 person SGs could get in on the fun)Very cool idea!
I look at games, particularly MMOs, and I see ... a need to improve math programs in the US education system.
(as an additional note, why just have PvP raids? We could have PvE raids too, where you have to defend the base you built from waves of enemies! That way, even the lonely 1 person SGs could get in on the fun)
Back when bases and base raids were still new, I made a suggestion to the devs that today I would describe as "make base raids like a tower defense mini-game where one player makes the base and adversary players create teams of PvE enemies that they can send against the base" (back then I think I described it more in terms of gladiator-style PvP arena crossed with base raid).
So like a Moab (DoTA, LoL, Infinite Crisis, etc) type of deal but instead of picking your heroes, you pick make them? :O I don't know if that is what your are getting at, but that would be fun :P
Moving to Windows 8? No more discussion needed. Just take their money, shake your head and do some work.
Personally, I think most business systems should be functional on Unix/Linux based OSs.
Hmmm, work systems that are on a stable environment so we don't need to upgrade every other year? That can run for months at a time without having to reboot? That don't suffer the same security issues that make script kiddies so happy (I know, there are other problems though)?
That couldn't possibly work.
Moving to Windows 8? No more discussion needed. Just take their money, shake your head and do some work.
Personally, I think most business systems should be functional on Unix/Linux based OSs.
Hmmm, work systems that are on a stable environment so we don't need to upgrade every other year? That can run for months at a time without having to reboot? That don't suffer the same security issues that make script kiddies so happy (I know, there are other problems though)?
That couldn't possibly work.
Just so someone less polite doesnt correct you - the abbreviation is MOBA (for Mutiplayer Online Battle Arena iirc).Mother
But I do like how Moab sounds so I might call them that for awhile on purpose :D
Your average user cannot even use the microsoft management console let alone type commands into a linux kernal. Heck an average user couldn't even do 2+2 at times let alone learn what git is.
Edit, addtional thought: If a persons brain shuts off such they cannot even do 2+2 on a computer and then when your troubleshooting for them and trying to tell them how to do things and then they repeatedly do something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT EVERY TIME AND BREAK THE MACHINE MORE.....they shouldn't be within a mile of a linux machine.
So much lol in your replies.
Ok, last bit on this for me since we're waaaay off topic.
If done correctly, the admin will lock down the machine in such a way as it just functions for business needs and the user can't even find the rest of the files. This makes the Linux/Unix machine perfect for business as most users will effectively operate a dummy terminal.
Not that I would ever be so cruel. :)
So like a Moab (DoTA, LoL, Infinite Crisis, etc) type of deal but instead of picking your heroes, you pick make them? :O I don't know if that is what your are getting at, but that would be fun :P
Hmmm, work systems that are on a stable environment so we don't need to upgrade every other year? That can run for months at a time without having to reboot? That don't suffer the same security issues that make script kiddies so happy (I know, there are other problems though)?
That couldn't possibly work.
oops excuse me, did you drop this card?
I've played one of the alpha builds of VO, and I wouldn't call it a copy/paste at ALL. There are similarities (it's about heroes and it's based in a city), but copy/paste would involve using same names, storylines, powersets, locations, designs, etc.... They have utilized NONE of that.
That's essentially like calling DC Universe Online a copy/paste of City of Heroes just because it's a heroes game. You can be a spritual successor superhero game that plays similarly without being a copy/paste.
Just so someone less polite doesnt correct you - the abbreviation is MOBA (for Mutiplayer Online Battle Arena iirc).
But I do like how Moab sounds so I might call them that for awhile on purpose :D
They lifted animations from DM and SS quite blatantly. They have a video for showing the area in one of the zones, and it was as close to copy/paste from what I could tell. Maybe they changed things, but from what I have seen has rubbed me the wrong way.
The thing is, we were so close to being able to do that by the time CoH was shut down. What we didn't have back when base raids were first created, but we did have by I23, was the AE custom critter creator. It would not have been hard (in design terms if not engine coding terms: I understand base code was tapioca pudding) to envision an interface where players created their own gladiator-style super(hero/villain) teams and used them by releasing them into player bases that had opted-in to allow them to be used in an AE base-raid interface.
Combine that with an enhanced demorecord feature that allowed you to replay the base raid over and over from the perspective of any of the combatants and floating camera views, and I think that could have been really interesting. And if you could take over and control any of your team during the raid? I think you'd have a mini-game that some players would play even more than the conventional game.
The thing is, we were so close to being able to do that by the time CoH was shut down. What we didn't have back when base raids were first created, but we did have by I23, was the AE custom critter creator. It would not have been hard (in design terms if not engine coding terms: I understand base code was tapioca pudding) to envision an interface where players created their own gladiator-style super(hero/villain) teams and used them by releasing them into player bases that had opted-in to allow them to be used in an AE base-raid interface.
Combine that with an enhanced demorecord feature that allowed you to replay the base raid over and over from the perspective of any of the combatants and floating camera views, and I think that could have been really interesting. And if you could take over and control any of your team during the raid? I think you'd have a mini-game that some players would play even more than the conventional game.
The difference being game designers are often explicitly not trying to do accurate physics. But I don't think most game designers are explicitly not trying to do accurate arithmetic.
When I beta tested Champions Online, I decided to analyze the effectiveness and performance of the defensive powers (of course). I concluded they were wildly unbalanced, and in some cases explicitly broken mechanically. I summarized my observations and sent them to the devs, asking if they wanted to discuss further. I never heard back from them the three separate times I tried. When they launched, players complained they were horribly unbalanced and in some cases broken. The devs posted something that basically said trust us, we have a spreadsheet.
That's when I stopped testing Champions Online. You can't argue with "I have a spreadsheet, ergo I'm right." Even if the math is so horribly wrong that not only can you prove its wrong, you can even prove what must have gone wrong in the sheet without even looking at it (which I posted, then went back to testing combat clocks in City of Heroes and really didn't bother analyzing CO very much past that point).
I will warn you, however. Something nobody thought to tell me when I got into learning Game creation. Get into it far enough, and you'll never look at games the same way. You start to look at how you think things were built, and how you might build them better/differently. Seriously, I look at games and I like...see Wireframes and scripts, lol.
Honestly, it would take too much work to teach most normal users to switch to a different desktop. Not even that Linux is necessarily harder, Mac OSX is not harder to use than Windows but try switching OSX users to Windows, or Windows users to OSX: same problem. Users get locked in to a certain look and feel, and its difficult to unlearn.
For most office automation use cases, I find properly managed VDI to be just as bulletproof running Windows as any other solution, and even easier to maintain. It is hard to break a Linux desktop, but its *impossible* to break a VDI desktop that can be reset to the same state it had at the beginning of the day at the push of a button with no possibility of the user being able to damage or corrupt the hardware in any way.
Mandatory on-topic mental muse: I wonder if VMware's GPU hypervisor support would allow you to run CoH clients in the cloud and stream the game to well-connected (low lag) users? You'd never have to worry about hardware or OS support issues ever again. Game companies are building games that support streaming now, but I wonder if it could be retrofitted into "classic CoH."
Heart surgery, not so much. Rebuild car engine? Done it once on a VW Bug, once on a Honda Civic. My Tech Director - Nate, you know? He's going to be doing it this weekendish, I believe, as his Beetle has taken a little nap.
Of course, he also was one of the founding Gentoo kernel guys, so... er. Well, I don't _know_ if he's done any heart surgery, but he's worked with NASA on some rocket engines.
Some guys _are_ just that damn good. Doctor Tyche is one of them.
-facepalms- That's...special, and sadly...Unsurprising.
I didn't know you were so knowledgeable about CoH's code base, Arcana.
Hrm... if only there was someone in this thread who might end up in a position of authority on such matters...
Of course, he also was one of the founding Gentoo kernel guys, so... er.
Gentoo, huh? He neglected to mention that...
Well, I'll try not to hold it against him.
:P
Personally, If people want to learn Unreal Engine 4...Go and buy it. Drop 20 bucks, then cancel your sub. I encourage people learning this stuff. It's a lot of fun, and you learn a lot about how/why certain things are they way they are in games.
I will warn you, however. Something nobody thought to tell me when I got into learning Game creation. Get into it far enough, and you'll never look at games the same way. You start to look at how you think things were built, and how you might build them better/differently. Seriously, I look at games and I like...see Wireframes and scripts, lol.
I kind of like the whole "Volume 2, Issue 1" thing. I've wondered.. Would Revival's first issue be...Issue 1? or Issue 24?
Groups like you I admire in CoX, you are given lemons and instead of making lemonade like everyone else, you think outside the box and make Pledge cleaner xD After making this type of game, you will spring more people to emulate your ideas and springs up innovation. Hats off to you :D
If you look at our Kickstarter, you will notice something very much like this in the PvP update. I call it Dungeon Keeper mode.
A couple weeks ago, I briefly considered nuking Skyway City from orbit and just making up some story as to why it didn't exist anymore. lol.
I look at games, particularly MMOs, and I see ... a need to improve math programs in the US education system.
I'd have to dig out the novels but IIRC, their take on the zone was more interesting. Skyway was, at least by the mid 1980's, kind of failed Art-Deco-Jet-Age-Dream with elevated tube pedways (the titular Skyways) over snaking freeways.
You know, every time I sysadmins and power users talking about how stupid users I have to wonder how many of them would attempt open heart surgery or to rebuild a car engine.
Personally I want someone who is operating on me or fixing my car to know what the hell they are doing and not be an amateur who went to Tom's Heartware site to bone up on the latest techniques and tools.
Just like starting your car, which most of you probably have a vague idea of how it works, most computer users just want to boot and go to the internet. It is not their fault that you geniuses can't design OS's that work, or hardware that's compatible or come up with virus proof systems. Frankly heart surgeons and mechanics have a success rate that most of you only wish computer systems had.
The next time somebody starts slinging around medical terminology or the like and you haven't a clue, just remember they are doing to you what you do to everyone else who doesn't understand the minutia of your trade.
They aren't stupid just because they don't what goes on under the hood of the computer that they want to buy any more than you are for not understanding how a petrochemical plant works when you want to buy a bag of fertilizer.
Gentoo, huh? He neglected to mention that...Back then it was called Enoch, then Dan got the bright idea of renaming it. This was just before someone (looks innocent) showed him BSD /ports.... And the monster was born.
Well, I'll try not to hold it against him.
:P
I recall reading a lot of Arcana's posts towards the end there on the CoH forums, and realizing just how closely he knew the code. IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong or if I'm spouting things "man was not meant to know," Arcana), he was actually working with the devs on several things behind the scenes, in either a freelance or unofficial way.
I actually thought Codewalker was him when I started posting here until I saw posts by Arcana himself, just because it was obvious CW had at least as much knowledge of the programming code as Arcana had expressed (and it seems perhaps more.)
In other news, I really enjoyed your "Last City of Heroes" story and event that you ran on the servers, Arcana, and am glad to have been able to participate in it. Thank you for that.
Correct Without_pause, we HAVE used things from COH to create an air of familiarity because of the nature of it being a successor game, but as an art director I have worked for many hours upon hours to create unique costumes, designs, particle affects, animations, and character designs that are completely new for the Valiance Online world. Our goal was and still is to give the community what it wants and they originally said they wanted something close to City of Heroes. Most of the things as you so aptly put "lifted" from COH are in homage to the game we are sprouting from, but as time moves on, so will our development of powers, designs and lore. In my humble opinion we are the most "non-copy" of the COH brand as it stands. But thank you for your input.
Back then it was called Enoch, then Dan got the bright idea of renaming it. This was just before someone (looks innocent) showed him BSD /ports.... And the monster was born.
It was specifically the beta server, and I and I'm sure everyone who helped me stage that appreciate it. It wasn't just me, but as we sort of hijacked a running server without permission and all, I will leave it up to the other participants if they want to out their specific involvement.
Why, why, WHY? Who knows. But they did, and it was totally broken, and under certain circumstances could generate "random" results so bad they essentially made certain mission rewards predictable. Which, in an MMO played by dozens or hundreds of people at a time, is a *really* bad rand.
I'm afraid I'm a little behind on my Kickstarter emails. But I am getting them.It was one of the early ones, back during the KS itself.
Some guys _are_ just that damn good. Doctor Tyche is one of them.
On the subject of voice work... I'm not currently planning on adding Voice work to Revival. That's not to say it's never going to happen, ever. But if it did...It would be around like...the 4th or 5th issue at the earliest.
...I'd have to spend at least that long finding the right voices for the characters.
(tangent)I am the same way. Portage is one of the reasons I left Gentoo. I have a soft spot for OpenBSD (yes, even with Theo attached) and Debian myself, although I run a mainly customized Linux setup myself.
I'm a big BSD fan (and sometimes developer), so I can't fault you for showing him ports.
It's just the mess of mutually incompatible bleeding-edge dependency hell that Gentoo ended up turning the ports tree INTO that made me swear to never install it again. Maybe it's changed since then, but these days if I have no other choice but Linux I'll usually go with Debian. Closest to the BSD minimalist and conservative design philosophy I've been able to find in the Linux world.
"If you can't do it right, you shouldn't try"
And grammar.
(I wish I'd kept logs of all the editing problems I sent off to the Paragon team to correct typos and grammar issues in the various missions over the years.)
FWIW, the CoT policy on Voice work is "If you can't do it right, you shouldn't try" and we're choosing not to risk it. Superhero dialog teeters VERY corny making it difficult to pull off straight even by frontline talent. If we had a more universal theme, like, say Freedom Force, it's a lot easier.
Your policy on voice work should be "if you think you can do it right, hit yourself in the forehead with a hammer until you change your mind."
Unless ya know, it's WIndows 8.
(Not kidding, but at the same time, I respect those who can stand it, or OS X. I actually have a laptop atm that came with win 8, and I upgraded it to 7. Can't get the trackpad to use trackpad drivers, or the ethernet port to work... but it's still otherwise a huuuge improvement!)
I'll say one thing on win 8. I have it on my Surface RT, and it's actually quite fantastic on my tablet. It works smashingly well on tablet, not... so much on PC.
Ive got both a Surface RT, and a Galaxy Tab 7in. I use the surface far more.
In my youth I used to think all users were idiots. I've come to realize that while some are idiots, equal percentages of the technical people are also idiots. The difference is that the technical people are paid to know this stuff, and are failing their responsibilities. The users aren't explicitly paid to know this stuff, and most look like idiots because the people whose job is to educate them are idiots.
Its rare for me to find genuinely idiotic users that can't learn. I have far more patience with users who want to learn, but simply do not have the context to pick things up quickly and need time to absorb it all, than I have for know-it-all techs that think they know everything, then blame the laws of physics for not generating the result they know is supposed to happen when they type the wrong command for the fifth time.
In fact, I would much rather work with users that know nothing, than technical types that know a lot, but more than half of which is wrong. Many supposed tech people slinging stupid user jokes are actually themselves net negative in useful knowledge.
Not that I don't think its funny when users do weird or unexpected things: I'm only human (as far as anyone knows). But while I will laugh at someone that slips on a banana peel and falls, I will also extend a hand and help them up and help them pick up their stuff. I may laugh at "stupid users" but I will also spend hours teaching them, no matter how long it takes, as long as they are willing to learn.
If you can't teach it, you don't really know it. The same was true for City of Heroes. Easy to laugh at the newbees, but for every newbee that didn't know what we knew, there were other players laughing at all the things we didn't know or knew incorrectly.
By "we" not me specifically of course, but you know: other we. And even I spent much of my first day playing trying to figure out why the train refused to take me anywhere when I walked through the door and onto the train.
I'll say one thing on win 8. I have it on my Surface RT, and it's actually quite fantastic on my tablet. It works smashingly well on tablet, not... so much on PC.
Ive got both a Surface RT, and a Galaxy Tab 7in. I use the surface far more.
<all the really informative and useful stuff snipped for brevity>Heh. Thank you. Some other site had referenced the fabric layer in duck tape as being part of the source of the name, but the water resistance makes even more sense. It's still a terrible long term solution for ducts or anything else that regularly gets hot, cold or even exposed to weather, but it is really useful as a quick temporary repair or rigging.
13. Nyx: http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/duckvsduct.html (http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/duckvsduct.html)
<see previous snippage>
Everything that makes Win8 detestable on a desktop makes it functional on a tablet.http://www.dell.com/us/p/dell-venue-8-pro/pd
I will warn you, however. Something nobody thought to tell me when I got into learning Game creation. Get into it far enough, and you'll never look at games the same way. You start to look at how you think things were built, and how you might build them better/differently. Seriously, I look at games and I like...see Wireframes and scripts, lol.
Seriously, I look at games and I like ... see ... there's way too much information to decode the game. You get used to it, though. Your brain does the translating. I don't even see the wireframes & scripts. All I see is building, bench, redcap
FWIW, the CoT policy on Voice work is "If you can't do it right, you shouldn't try" and we're choosing not to risk it. Superhero dialog teeters VERY corny making it difficult to pull off straight even by frontline talent. If we had a more universal theme, like, say Freedom Force, it's a lot easier.
Honestly, it would take too much work to teach most normal users to switch to a different desktop. Not even that Linux is necessarily harder, Mac OSX is not harder to use than Windows but try switching OSX users to Windows, or Windows users to OSX: same problem. Users get locked in to a certain look and feel, and its difficult to unlearn.
For most office automation use cases, I find properly managed VDI to be just as bulletproof running Windows as any other solution, and even easier to maintain. It is hard to break a Linux desktop, but its *impossible* to break a VDI desktop that can be reset to the same state it had at the beginning of the day at the push of a button with no possibility of the user being able to damage or corrupt the hardware in any way.
Mandatory on-topic mental muse: I wonder if VMware's GPU hypervisor support would allow you to run CoH clients in the cloud and stream the game to well-connected (low lag) users? You'd never have to worry about hardware or OS support issues ever again. Game companies are building games that support streaming now, but I wonder if it could be retrofitted into "classic CoH."
So like a Moab (DoTA, LoL, Infinite Crisis, etc) type of deal but instead of picking your heroes, you pick make them? :O I don't know if that is what your are getting at, but that would be fun :P
You can do better, loads better. :p Personally.. I kinda like how they do it in DCUO. Just a collection of big empty rooms you can decorate how you like. Just don't gate the furnishings behind drops and let the users buy additional rooms to add on to it (including multiple levels).
As for 'realism' - who wants that? You can see the pitfalls of that thought process in any Marvel movie.
For those of you who are fans of chat, the "Game Chat" tab near the top will take you to the IRC channel.
If it isn't too much trouble, could I get the server/channel info? :)
I prefer using a client, lets me multitask easier when I have... too many tabs open.
Most of the things as you so aptly put "lifted" from COH are in homage to the game we are sprouting from, but as time moves on, so will our development of powers, designs and lore. In my humble opinion we are the most "non-copy" of the COH brand as it stands. But thank you for your input.
We need to shut down ALL these beacons
The idea of a tablet with a desktop OS (but a UI designed for tablets) has appealed to me since before tablets became a huge thing. The idea of carrying around the sheer library of applications and games that run on a windows PC...
It wasn't a bad idea to try to make a touchscreen UI on Microsoft's part - it was just bad to not see that it would be taken with the same level of love as Vista was.
I can understand what they wanted to do. The idea of a unified experience is, on the surface, a pleasant idea.
Steve Balmer wasn't wrong about that, he just didn't understand that it doesn't work. Tablets, phones, and PCs are all *very* different beasts used for very different purposes.
Fortunately, the new leadership at Microsoft understand the mistake and are working to correct it.
*nods as if he knows much of anything*
I don't want an identical experience between using my PC, phone and tablet, but I do want an integrated experience: they should all talk to each other as a unified whole (hardware limitations withstanding).
Honestly, he should have known better. Trying to make things like phones, tablets, and PCs use exactly the same interface is literally like believing that Excel and Word should have the same interface. They might have the same look and feel, but because they are different apps performing completely different things trying to shoehorn both into exactly the same interface (not just common elements, but exactly the same interface in all respects) would be ludicrous. Anyone who knows anything about user interfaces should know better, and I'm pretty sure Balmer knew better but still tried to force it to promote Microsoft's Windows-everywhere strategy.
Not sure I agree. On the one hand, Nadella seems to better recognize the priority of cloud computing and Microsoft as a services company that sells software and not a software company that offers services. On the other hand, the "one Windows" strategy continues to smell like "Windows-everywhere" just in a different form. Yes, its not exactly the same and "one Windows" doesn't specifically presume identical interfaces across the platform. But its still this belief that one thing can be the right thing everywhere, and that one thing is Windows.
Personally, I think they learned the wrong lesson from the failure of Windows RT. I think that only reinforced their belief that anything short of full 100% Windows is something consumers will treat as a toy and will not accept. But that had more to do with the limitations of RT, and less with the idea that only full versions of Windows are "good enough" for consumers. It'll be interesting to see how Windows Mobile fares under Nadella and the one-Windows strategy in the long term. Does one-Windows leave enough latitude for Windows Mobile to evolve independently and agilely verses competitors (IOS, Android)? We'll see.
Personally, I think they learned the wrong lesson from the failure of Windows RT. I think that only reinforced their belief that anything short of full 100% Windows is something consumers will treat as a toy and will not accept. But that had more to do with the limitations of RT, and less with the idea that only full versions of Windows are "good enough" for consumers. It'll be interesting to see how Windows Mobile fares under Nadella and the one-Windows strategy in the long term. Does one-Windows leave enough latitude for Windows Mobile to evolve independently and agilely verses competitors (IOS, Android)? We'll see.
So, when are you getting a Mac, you dirty little iPhone/iPad owner, you! ;)
Isis.pc-logix.com
Channel: #AtlasParkRevival
Uh, Whoops. That should actually be Irc.pc-logix.com. Not Isis.
My bad.
Please, I don't have the time to be any form of radical extremeist. I've got far to many things to do.
Hrrrmmm... I'll be keep an eye on you! (Until CoH1.5 releases, anyway! :p )
I'm surprised you wouldn't want to keep watching in eager anticipation of new content.
I'm surprised you wouldn't want to keep watching in eager anticipation of new content.
What would be cool is if Teleport had it's animation removed and became instantaneous.I think that the flash effect could stay (or void/rift animation for WS) could stay, but on the whole, it does take too long and makes the power less effective as a main travel power. Generally +1
I think that the flash effect could stay (or void/rift animation for WS) could stay, but on the whole, it does take too long and makes the power less effective as a main travel power. Generally +1
oops excuse me, did you drop this card?Those better be numbered!
Don't expect Revival to be an exact Carbon copy of City of Heroes. Obviously, It would be madly impractical for the team to ensure that every little thing like sign posts are pixel perfectly placed.I think most people wouldn't mind if you applied some creative license to the game, really. I think that would even make it less of a burden when redesigning some zones. Don't get stuck on the details if they are keeping you from moving on. And you can always come up with some lore reason as for why some things are different later.
There might be other changes to. Like..You ever notice how there's no real hospital in the city? Those little medical clinics are fine for Medivacing a bruised up Her...but how many civilians do you think have their babies there?
There's not going to be grand sweeping changes like the AP Revamp, or the DA makeover. But do expect to see some stuff here and there.
I kind of agree... Teleport always seemed less, well, FUN than the other travel powers to me. Prolly because of the delay.
I think most people wouldn't mind if you applied some creative license to the game, really. I think that would even make it less of a burden when redesigning some zones. Don't get stuck on the details if they are keeping you from moving on. And you can always come up with some lore reason as for why some things are different later.
So, when are you getting a Mac, you dirty little iPhone/iPad owner, you! ;)
Honestly I think the community is so large, and passionate about the game that no matter what I do, or don't do...someone will be upset. I add a hospital to a zone, Some people will be upset that there's not supposed to be a hospital in that zone. I don't add things, and some players will be upset that I'm not changing enough stuff.
Nature of the beast. You can't be afraid of it though, otherwise you're frozen. You just have to make the decisions that you think will be best for the game, and hopefully...make as many players as happy as possible!
Honestly I think the community is so large, and passionate about the game that no matter what I do, or don't do...someone will be upset. I add a hospital to a zone, Some people will be upset that there's not supposed to be a hospital in that zone. I don't add things, and some players will be upset that I'm not changing enough stuff.
Nature of the beast. You can't be afraid of it though, otherwise you're frozen. You just have to make the decisions that you think will be best for the game, and hopefully...make as many players as happy as possible!
Yeah, that could be a thing. I think Tony want's stuff like that to take place on the APR website however, So I'll leave that up to his decision.
I'll most likely do one on the APR forum as well.
Yeah, that could be a thing. I think Tony want's stuff like that to take place on the APR website however, So I'll leave that up to his decision.
I'll most likely do one on the APR forum as well.
Yeah, that could be a thing. I think Tony want's stuff like that to take place on the APR website however, So I'll leave that up to his decision.
I'll most likely do one on the APR forum as well.
Tum-tee-tum... *saunters in the direction of the APR forums*
You guys crack me up sometimes. lol.
This is my hobby in life, to crack as many people up as possible!
Sometimes, tools are necessary. ;)
You guys crack me up sometimes. lol.
I'm also hanging out in the chat, if anyone's bored.
What is this chat of which I am hearing? I was not aware of such a thing!
Sorry you're having trouble, Ironwolf. I don't know much about the verification myself, as it's something the web admin set up.
The forums are telling me you're good, So I don't know if you got it to work...or if it's just being dumb.
And the moral of the story is...
Don't cry, wolf.
Honestly I think the community is so large, and passionate about the game that no matter what I do, or don't do...someone will be upset. I add a hospital to a zone, Some people will be upset that there's not supposed to be a hospital in that zone. I don't add things, and some players will be upset that I'm not changing enough stuff.
Nature of the beast. You can't be afraid of it though, otherwise you're frozen. You just have to make the decisions that you think will be best for the game, and hopefully...make as many players as happy as possible!
Well, I for one am upset! I was looking over the Oro U4 Video and it's all wrong! The whole place is too clean. When you look at it from distance the whole thing should be blurry!
There are shadows. Stained Glass. Textures. Day and Night? Come on!
:)
Is this more what you were looking for?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQUStLK1tXk
(best viewed in 144p)
:P
Head over to the Atlas Park Revival site, register for it, and select the "Game Chat" option, which will open up an IRC chat client.
Actually I was wondering if there had been any discussion/thought on creating an APR thread that talks about things like FAQ and possible changes (aesthetic and otherwise) that might come to CoX 1.5. Not so much an APR general discussion (salutes and says "General Discussion) thread, but not a "tell us what you think" thread either. Kind of something in between.
I'm honestly not sure if that was sarcasm, or not.
So. I'll...answer...somewhere in between?
Everything shown for Revival should be taken with a big fat "Work in Progress" label. I don't believe I had Depth of Field enabled when I recorded the video, which is what makes far away objects look blurry. I find it annoying when I'm working, so I tend to leave it disabled.
I've added more trees in since this was taken. I still need to build the other floating islands, and add the leaves on the ground...
Ah, well. At least the zone isn't pink.
Honestly I think the community is so large, and passionate about the game that no matter what I do, or don't do...someone will be upset. I add a hospital to a zone, Some people will be upset that there's not supposed to be a hospital in that zone. I don't add things, and some players will be upset that I'm not changing enough stuff.
Nature of the beast. You can't be afraid of it though, otherwise you're frozen. You just have to make the decisions that you think will be best for the game, and hopefully...make as many players as happy as possible!
I think one thing you (and everyone else) needs to bear in mind is that CoH became a game where travel and convenience were simple and everywhere.
To play Devil's Advocate, that is one thing that I think they went a bit overboard on, in particular with i23 and the warp holes (whatever they were called) that pretty much made all other forms of zone-to-zone travel completely redundant.
I get the intent- to make things more player (particularly new player) friendly, but I think keeping some degree of relative inaccessibility made the game more immersive.
To play Devil's Advocate, that is one thing that I think they went a bit overboard on, in particular with i23 and the warp holes (whatever they were called) that pretty much made all other forms of zone-to-zone travel completely redundant.
I get the intent- to make things more player (particularly new player) friendly, but I think keeping some degree of relative inaccessibility made the game more immersive.
I agree with this. Traveling the city, going from place to place.. You felt part of the world.
Between Pocket D, Ouroboros, Bases teleporters, Mission teleport... You never needed to walk anywhere by the end.
This'll be unpopular, but IMO, the only time you should have been allowed to teleport to a mission, was if it were a timed mission.a once per day tp wasnt bad...we tended to save those for reeally bad ones
Those AMA's are WONDERFUL fountains of information and insight. I've gone over all fo them with a fine toothed comb.
Expect that these may not remain canon though to Revival however. I'm not saying for sure that they won't, but don't be surprised.
quick sort of off-topic question for the MWM folk/Downix - will potentially pertain to Irish_Girl with APR as well, I suppose.
are you still raising money for CoT?
i know the kickstarter wrapped last year (2014 seems to be chugging along, doesn't it) but are you still raising capital outside of that effort? i ask because there are a number of people who clearly support your enterprise and I'm sure could spare the money to periodically contribute. Plus, the excitement pertaining to the current efforts of resurrecting CoH has brought some additional awareness to the fore, not to mention Marvel/comic books having taken over the entertainment sphere during past few years.
To play Devil's Advocate, that is one thing that I think they went a bit overboard on, in particular with i23 and the warp holes (whatever they were called) that pretty much made all other forms of zone-to-zone travel completely redundant.
I get the intent- to make things more player (particularly new player) friendly, but I think keeping some degree of relative inaccessibility made the game more immersive.
I agree with this. Traveling the city, going from place to place.. You felt part of the world.
Between Pocket D, Ouroboros, Bases teleporters, Mission teleport... You never needed to walk anywhere by the end.
a once per day tp wasnt bad...we tended to save those for reeally bad ones
I enjoyed it, and knew plenty of other people who did.
There were people who liked to farm in CoH, and that's all they did. And they ENJOYED it! And then there were the people who constantly decried the "evilness" of farming.
So when I try to go to the irc address LI provided... I get a page that says:
Well hello there, welcome to SuPeRMiNoR2's site.
There is nothing much here, so you might as well just go away.
Guilty of this, for some reason farming was really relaxing and the purple drops and inf/prestige was just an added benefit. I dunno, just mowing through mobs while listening to The Eagles, NWA, Journey, 2 Pac, Mozart, Offsprings, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, etc was very relaxing.
a once per day tp wasnt bad...we tended to save those for reeally bad ones
I enjoyed it, and knew plenty of other people who did.
Honestly, I've never understood this "I didn't like it, so we should take it out of the game" mentality... Can you imagine where CoH would have been if all the devs took that stance? (see quote in my signature below)... More options means more people will be able to make it their own personalized experience--much like having so many costume options in the costume creator. One of the beautiful things about really good developers is their intelligence in creating features for games that even they themselves may not use within their own playstyle.
There were people who liked to farm in CoH, and that's all they did. And they ENJOYED it! And then there were the people who constantly decried the "evilness" of farming. Same thing for AE. Why can't people just enjoy the game for what it was and what it offered without trying to impose their own sense of "how a game should be played?"
I mean, that IS what Jack Emmert was hated so much for....right?
I'm sorry, but "take away this nice feature because I don't like it and I think everyone should do things the hard way" is not a good excuse to take something out of a game. I'm not saying that's what you guys were suggesting, but that's inevitably where that conversation leads. Change things that are game-breaking, but don't change things that are "quality of life enhancements." There were MULTIPLE uses for having a "teleport across zones feature--one of which was for those of use who liked to break our own records for task force speed runs for the hell of it... I know that's not something everyone did, but...you don't see me saying "I think a requirement for unlocking villain side content is you have to do X Task Force in XX amount of time," do you?
Yeah that was jack's philosophy.
As to all the portals they setup to warp you to other zones, I can see such portals in Praetoria as it is a different universe with some different laws.
However for Primal Earth, all they needed to do was adjust the Ouroborus exit portal so that on blueside it was linked to all zones and same for red side. I always thought it odd that the exit portal from Ouroborus was so limited as you are leaving temporal limbo to return to the timestream as it were.
Mission TP I had no problem with as the SHARD TF's needed it.
Also if your base had all the teleporters that was good too.
A QOL adjustment I would like to see is this: the power to teleport to your base and to Pocket D I think could use an upgrade. They were created back at the time when they didn't want us to have a quick escape power, then came Ouroborus portals.... Anyway, instead of an interruptible energy build up with long recharge, change them both to be like the Ouroborus portal, a portal appears and you warp to either your base or Pocket D.
That would be a great QoL improvement without doing away with various features completely. I think I could only use the mission teleporter once a task force, so it wasn't something that would be considered "overpowered." However, the ability to skip crossing HUGE zones during a TF (especially for people who did mainly TFs on a regular basis) was a definitive QoL improvement. It'd be a step back to take that option away just because some people prefer to walk the zone every time...
I agree, Mission TP must be retained if the game returns. For those that dont have travel powers, or patience at times, or for the SHARD TF's.
also if super speed could gain vertical movement and possibly even to run on air as the Flash has been at times known to do....
This is my hobby in life, to crack as many people up as possible!
I agree, Mission TP must be retained if the game returns. For those that dont have travel powers, or patience at times, or for the SHARD TF's.
also if super speed could gain vertical movement and possibly even to run on air as the Flash has been at times known to do....
True that, the FFM's Cracked Commando Unit T-Shirt I have proves it!
But.. Nobody RAN the Shard TF's!
Technically, this was possible as well... I had a few fun builds where I combined Super Jump and Super Speed... Even Combat Jumping coupled with Super Speed really made zone traversing extremely fun..."am I going to make it over that wallllllllll.....YESSSS!"
I swear, during some of my TF speed runs, I had a zone mapped out and jumps timed in such a way that it was reminiscent of the speed runners in Super Mario who had every move timed just right... Fun times! I want my game back! :D
Technically, this was possible as well... I had a few fun builds where I combined Super Jump and Super Speed... Even Combat Jumping coupled with Super Speed really made zone traversing extremely fun..."am I going to make it over that wallllllllll.....YESSSS!"
I swear, during some of my TF speed runs, I had a zone mapped out and jumps timed in such a way that it was reminiscent of the speed runners in Super Mario who had every move timed just right... Fun times! I want my game back! :D
Lol.
The shard TF's for me were "one and done", their repeat value wasn't much to me. Granted they had some nice reward merit payout but still....
If a speedster can propel himself forward that fast with that much force, there's no reason why he can't use that force to propel himself upward higher than normal, and at least have a Ninja-Run-type leap.
I have a silly question that mostly likely is yet to be determined.
If NCSoft does indeed sell the IP and we get back the game at I23, has there been a determination as to what image/update we might be talking about? I23 the day it was pushed to live or the state of the game just prior to shutdown?
The reason I'm asking is to see if our last three sets would be included. Bio Armor, Nature Affinity and Water Blast. Unless my memory is failing (and it could be) wasn't each of these placed in the game after I23 was released?
Natures affinity and water blast was in the game. Bio Armor was WIP
I guess my question is were they released before I23 went live. If we get the sale, but we receive an image created on I23 release date... you get my point.
We are introducing a new T-shirt design each month with a promotional sale of it for that month. By the time we hit game beta, the storefront should be opened up for the most popular designs.
They are selling shirts. Or were? I don't know.
To play Devil's Advocate, that is one thing that I think they went a bit overboard on, in particular with i23 and the warp holes (whatever they were called) that pretty much made all other forms of zone-to-zone travel completely redundant.
I get the intent- to make things more player (particularly new player) friendly, but I think keeping some degree of relative inaccessibility made the game more immersive.
Yes they were live except bioarmor, those were premium content you had to buy even for subscribers
To play Devil's ... Prosecutor? Travel wasn't just a convenience for getting to content. Ubiquitous travel was a critical part of why City of Heroes was an extremely casual-friendly game. We could casual-team in a way you really do not see in other MMOs. In no other MMO I've seen did we have the dual elements of friendly chat channels ("looking for two for ITF run") and almost ludicrous ubiquitous travel capability ("I'm in, OMW"). In most MMOs, if you want to join a team in progress, and you aren't lucky enough to be standing right next to them at the time, you're screwed. That's why so many MMOs designed for and needed "meeting zones" where players could hook up for teams. Chat channels to organize teams? Why? If you aren't already on their team how do you expect to get to their mission, or their zone? You have to literally be there when the team organizes.
In City of Heroes, you could actually see a request for team on a global channel being organized on another server, say I'm in, log out, log into any character of your choice (of sufficient level) on that server, run/fly/jump/tp to the rally point from where ever you logged out, and join the team in less time than it takes for a team to walk to their mission in any other MMO. You don't fully appreciate how powerful that is to make a game friendly to casual players until you play an MMO where those two features - simple global chat and ultrapowerful travel - don't exist.
We are introducing a new T-shirt design each month with a promotional sale of it for that month. By the time we hit game beta, the storefront should be opened up for the most popular designs.
The order form can be found here: http://cityoftitans.com/t-shirt-order-form (http://cityoftitans.com/t-shirt-order-form)
But.. Nobody RAN the Shard TF's!
Heh. Thank you. Some other site had referenced the fabric layer in duck tape as being part of the source of the name, but the water resistance makes even more sense. It's still a terrible long term solution for ducts or anything else that regularly gets hot, cold or even exposed to weather, but it is really useful as a quick temporary repair or rigging.I used to use duct tape to hem my military issue pants in the Coast Guard. (They come without being hemmed at the bottom) It worked for months at a time through multiple washings. True story.
This was not the news I was hoping for.
I absolutely despise the way some Asian companies do business. They will buy properties from and interests in western companies. Too much 'saving face' all the damn time is annoying. Selling the cancelled property and having someone revive it and be successful with it would cause them to lose face: they would be seen as incompetent or short-sighted. In Asian companies, you are not allowed to criticize your superiors, or even offer advice.
Shenzhen Kexiang Mould Tool Co blames Astin Martin for their recent problems, even though they were supplying AM with plastic components that were counterfiet DuPont plastics. It wasn't the sub-contractor's fault, or that they were selling these counterfiets, it was AM's fault for discovering it and doing something about it.
I'm sure someone in the cockpit of Asiana Airlines Flight 214 saw they were too low too soon, but wouldn't say anything.
Honestly I think the community is so large, and passionate about the game that no matter what I do, or don't do...someone will be upset. I add a hospital to a zone, Some people will be upset that there's not supposed to be a hospital in that zone. I don't add things, and some players will be upset that I'm not changing enough stuff.Well at least you know that in advance. :D
Nature of the beast. You can't be afraid of it though, otherwise you're frozen. You just have to make the decisions that you think will be best for the game, and hopefully...make as many players as happy as possible!
This was not the news I was hoping for.I think you are missing a key part, NcSoft owns Cox, which means the team has to play by their rules.
I absolutely despise the way some Asian companies do business. They will buy properties from and interests in western companies. Too much 'saving face' all the damn time is annoying. Selling the cancelled property and having someone revive it and be successful with it would cause them to lose face: they would be seen as incompetent or short-sighted. In Asian companies, you are not allowed to criticize your superiors, or even offer advice.
Shenzhen Kexiang Mould Tool Co blames Astin Martin for their recent problems, even though they were supplying AM with plastic components that were counterfiet DuPont plastics. It wasn't the sub-contractor's fault, or that they were selling these counterfiets, it was AM's fault for discovering it and doing something about it.
I'm sure someone in the cockpit of Asiana Airlines Flight 214 saw they were too low too soon, but wouldn't say anything.
I enjoyed it, and knew plenty of other people who did.I found the faster travel options very useful for those days when I only had 30 minutes to play or something. Spending that time travelling wouldn't exactly make the best use of it.
There was a loony called @Electric_Eddie or similar who for several years on Freedom ran all the shard TFs over all the US 3 day holiday weekends, he was a kin, my granite was his tank of choice for several of them.
Repeat the mantra: NCSoft is selling the IP. (Everything else is gravy.)
This was not the news I was hoping for.
I absolutely despise the way some Asian companies do business. They will buy properties from and interests in western companies. Too much 'saving face' all the damn time is annoying. Selling the cancelled property and having someone revive it and be successful with it would cause them to lose face: they would be seen as incompetent or short-sighted. In Asian companies, you are not allowed to criticize your superiors, or even offer advice.
Shenzhen Kexiang Mould Tool Co blames Astin Martin for their recent problems, even though they were supplying AM with plastic components that were counterfiet DuPont plastics. It wasn't the sub-contractor's fault, or that they were selling these counterfiets, it was AM's fault for discovering it and doing something about it.
I'm sure someone in the cockpit of Asiana Airlines Flight 214 saw they were too low too soon, but wouldn't say anything.
If a speedster can propel himself forward that fast with that much force, there's no reason why he can't use that force to propel himself upward higher than normal, and at least have a Ninja-Run-type leap.
That's sorta how I imagined my character doing that... It wasn't really "Combat Jumping" to me... It was exactly that. He was so fast that he was able to use some of that kinetic energy to propel himself higher--that or it could be "explained" that he used his loose clothing as sort of a parachute effect to use the wind to float up a bit higher... :)
If a speedster can propel himself forward that fast with that much force, there's no reason why he can't use that force to propel himself upward higher than normal, and at least have a Ninja-Run-type leap.
Well, technically there's lots of reasons.
Ultimately, in a superhero/villain game where physics-bending and physics-breaking content is the norm, the rationale for why some things are allowed and some things are not allowed rest on more intricate and complex holistic decisions about what's best for the game overall.
I guess my question is were they released before I23 went live. If we get the sale, but we receive an image created on I23 release date... you get my point.
I have a silly question that mostly likely is yet to be determined.
If NCSoft does indeed sell the IP and we get back the game at I23, has there been a determination as to what image/update we might be talking about? I23 the day it was pushed to live or the state of the game just prior to shutdown?
The reason I'm asking is to see if our last three sets would be included. Bio Armor, Nature Affinity and Water Blast. Unless my memory is failing (and it could be) wasn't each of these placed in the game after I23 was released?
Let me put this in in my own thoughts:
If we don't get the game back we can make our own game. We can import all of the graphics and missions - even the characters with minor changes - because - CoH ran on the Cryptic engine and had different names for its characters. Making your own game with similar gameplay is not illegal.
FWIW, the CoT policy on Voice work is "If you can't do it right, you shouldn't try" and we're choosing not to risk it. Superhero dialog teeters VERY corny making it difficult to pull off straight even by frontline talent. If we had a more universal theme, like, say Freedom Force, it's a lot easier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster
If we did this (due to not getting the game), would having zones that look exactly the same (as in Atlas Park Revival) be a problem, even if we named the zone something else? I'm not sure how "copyright" stuff works within games...
They will not be the same. While the project to make the same zones is happening - they will not be pixel perfect copies. Some other enviromental things will be added. Do yourself a favor and go look at any CoH video and then search for an UnReal 4 engine demo - they will be light years in difference.
This actually really saddens me. First, because with my set up reading long boxes of text becomes a bit tedious and takes me OUT of the game world, but more importantly...
To me it's a sign of a game that will already feel "dated" by design in ways new players might find unpalatable. I work with teenagers and can tell you that this younger generation sees games where all dialogue is text based as outdated to the point of being "quaint." It seems rather like the mindset Nintendo took with HD graphics and Dialogue in the last generation console wars, and we see how that turned out. At least the 200 or so of us who have a Wii U do. Not keeping up with the direction of the medium REALLY hurt Nintendo badly. To the point that they may never recover, even after releasing and entirely new console to try and make up the losses.
Of course, as someone with an extensive background in writing, I wholeheartedly disagree with your comments on super hero dialogue. Have you ever watched ANY of the current Marvel Universe cartoons on Disney? Or any of the JLU series? The reason that dialogue is "good" while the 1980 Superfriends dialogue is "bad" has nothing to do with the medium itself, it has to do with expectations.
Good dialogue is good dialogue. Bad dialogue is bad dialogue. If you're writing "corny" dialogue that's not because of the genre, it's because of bad writing or because the assumption is that somehow it "should" be corny. That was the expectation in the 60s, 70s, and 80s for Super Heroes, both in style, story line, and dialogue. They were campy and over the top. It isn't the expectation any more, and unless you want to pull a Champions Online, which pursued that antiquated view of Super heroes to its detriment, then your writing shouldn't have any dialogue bordering on "corny", so it shouldn't need Morgan Freeman to pull off.
Just my 2 cents.
Play CO for about 30 minutes. They have voice talent. It's bad. As in pure sliced Velveeta cheesy bad.
Play CO for about 30 minutes. They have voice talent. It's bad. As in pure sliced Velveeta cheesy bad.
Why spend the money for the voice acting if it's going to be... bad?
TSW does OK voice acting. It's via cutscenes and works well. But it's rather jarring to be walking towards a contact and suddenly, "WHAM!" cutscene.
I don't have a problem with reading dialog boxes (and I'm not saying that settles it.) Often, in voice overs, I miss what is said...
It has been mentioned several times now that the i23 we would be given is a snapshot from the servers the night the game closed down. I think we're safe.
Here would be my big questions.
~ Will account data be saved? I don't mind rebuilding characters from scratch, but I would be really sad to lose my Veteran rewards and all the costumes and power sets I bought.
~ Any chance we could get the test server build or see it at some point? The changes on the test server were awesome. The blaster changes in particular rocked.
Moonlighter
Uh, Whoops. That should actually be Irc.pc-logix.com. Not Isis.
My bad.
It has been mentioned several times now that the i23 we would be given is a snapshot from the servers the night the game closed down. I think we're safe.
Before ninja run on my katana/sr back in the old days at one point my travel power was quickness + swift + sprint with SO's in them and Combat JumpingI still remember teaming with this guy with no travel power. He kept telling me he didn't need it. It was pretty early in my playing career so I was pretty skeptical and thought he was a little wacky.
Let me put this in in my own thoughts:I like it.
If we don't get the game back we can make our own game. We can import all of the graphics and missions - even the characters with minor changes - because - CoH ran on the Cryptic engine and had different names for its characters. Making your own game with similar gameplay is not illegal.
I still remember teaming with this guy with no travel power. He kept telling me he didn't need it. It was pretty early in my playing career so I was pretty skeptical and thought he was a little wacky.
But then he kept getting to the mish doors about the same time I did give or take. I was blown away. He finally told me he was using Hurdle+CJ. Man...he could move fast. That's when I started taking Hurdle instead of Swift. :D
I agree with this. Traveling the city, going from place to place.. You felt part of the world.
As a noob I remember not being able to figure out how the trains worked so I made the mistake of walking though the Zone entrance for Skyway City as a lowly level 5 and getting attacked by a mob of clockwork. Which then ended up sending me to the Skyway medical clinic. Then me having to try and run all the way back to Atlas Park without drawing aggro. LOL I died many, many times....but I got there eventually.
Not to mention that IMO, some areas shouldn't have simply been "open season" for everyone. I know that- as a newbie- I had had enough troubles using the trams to get to areas that were too high level for me, and had some serious wake up experiences ("D'OH!"), but that problem simply got exacerbated towards the end with all the open transit.
Add to that that so many zones at that point had close story arc/continuity ties, and should have been more transitioned into. First Ward notably comes to mind (as a Praetoria lover). I think it was already kind of an oddity to have that zone so open to non-Praetorians, but to just have it available to enter as a first level hero in Paragon City was kind of weird.
Not to mention that IMO, some areas shouldn't have simply been "open season" for everyone. I know that- as a newbie- I had had enough troubles using the trams to get to areas that were too high level for me, and had some serious wake up experiences ("D'OH!"), but that problem simply got exacerbated towards the end with all the open transit.
Add to that that so many zones at that point had close story arc/continuity ties, and should have been more transitioned into. First Ward notably comes to mind (as a Praetoria lover). I think it was already kind of an oddity to have that zone so open to non-Praetorians, but to just have it available to enter as a first level hero in Paragon City was kind of weird.
Yes, Positron did reserve the right to change everything in the event that CoH comes back; fortunately, there's enough left open in the lore that the "Coming Storm" can still be anything - hints were dropped in game, sure, but nothing was absolutely certain.
This actually really saddens me. First, because with my set up reading long boxes of text becomes a bit tedious and takes me OUT of the game world, but more importantly...
To me it's a sign of a game that will already feel "dated" by design in ways new players might find unpalatable. I work with teenagers and can tell you that this younger generation sees games where all dialogue is text based as outdated to the point of being "quaint." It seems rather like the mindset Nintendo took with HD graphics and Dialogue in the last generation console wars, and we see how that turned out. At least the 200 or so of us who have a Wii U do. Not keeping up with the direction of the medium REALLY hurt Nintendo badly. To the point that they may never recover, even after releasing and entirely new console to try and make up the losses.
Of course, as someone with an extensive background in writing, I wholeheartedly disagree with your comments on super hero dialogue. Have you ever watched ANY of the current Marvel Universe cartoons on Disney? Or any of the JLU series? The reason that dialogue is "good" while the 1980 Superfriends dialogue is "bad" has nothing to do with the medium itself, it has to do with expectations.
Good dialogue is good dialogue. Bad dialogue is bad dialogue. If you're writing "corny" dialogue that's not because of the genre, it's because of bad writing or because the assumption is that somehow it "should" be corny. That was the expectation in the 60s, 70s, and 80s for Super Heroes, both in style, story line, and dialogue. They were campy and over the top. It isn't the expectation any more, and unless you want to pull a Champions Online, which pursued that antiquated view of Super heroes to its detriment, then your writing shouldn't have any dialogue bordering on "corny", so it shouldn't need Morgan Freeman to pull off.
Just my 2 cents.
To play Devil's ... Prosecutor? Travel wasn't just a convenience for getting to content. Ubiquitous travel was a critical part of why City of Heroes was an extremely casual-friendly game. We could casual-team in a way you really do not see in other MMOs. In no other MMO I've seen did we have the dual elements of friendly chat channels ("looking for two for ITF run") and almost ludicrous ubiquitous travel capability ("I'm in, OMW"). In most MMOs, if you want to join a team in progress, and you aren't lucky enough to be standing right next to them at the time, you're screwed. That's why so many MMOs designed for and needed "meeting zones" where players could hook up for teams. Chat channels to organize teams? Why? If you aren't already on their team how do you expect to get to their mission, or their zone? You have to literally be there when the team organizes.
But then he kept getting to the mish doors about the same time I did give or take. I was blown away. He finally told me he was using Hurdle+CJ. Man...he could move fast. That's when I started taking Hurdle instead of Swift. :D
As a noob I remember not being able to figure out how the trains worked so I made the mistake of walking though the Zone entrance for Skyway City as a lowly level 5 and getting attacked by a mob of clockwork. Which then ended up sending me to the Skyway medical clinic. Then me having to try and run all the way back to Atlas Park without drawing aggro. LOL I died many, many times....but I got there eventually.
I don't know... I just feel like a lot of people don't realize that if they wish for QoL enhancements to get taken away, or fewer options, or nerfs, they're most likely ruining someone else's favorite experience. The immediate reaction of MOST people with this "I don't like it so it shouldn't be there" attitude always seems to be "if you don't like it, you can always leave."
Fine. So, let's say a huge chunk of people decide to leave because they start to get aggravated that they're not allowed to travel like they want to. Or, they don't have as much of an "open world" as they'd like. Then there are not enough people there to support the game you told them to leave. And....suddenly there isn't a whole lot of people to play with...or, even worse, it gets shut down. Would you be happy with the results of "if you don't like it, leave" in an MMO world?
Maybe I should have been a Producer. :P
I don't know... I just feel like a lot of people don't realize that if they wish for QoL enhancements to get taken away, or fewer options, or nerfs, they're most likely ruining someone else's favorite experience. The immediate reaction of MOST people with this "I don't like it so it shouldn't be there" attitude always seems to be "if you don't like it, you can always leave."
There was a loony called @Electric_Eddie or similar who for several years on Freedom ran all the shard TFs over all the US 3 day holiday weekends, he was a kin, my granite was his tank of choice for several of them.Eddie had all kinds of alts and they all were Eddies. Entangled,Electric and so on. Good guy and friend. He kind dropped outa sight. We figured he got a girlfriend or something.
And Disney will hammer you so hard that there will be no evidence that you ever existed in this dimension(or any others that they have access to).
Edit: Look at it this way. Creating a Mickey Mouse character in Unreal and making a game around it, even if you didn't directly get it from somewhere, still violates Disney's copyright.
Adding options can cost you players in exactly the same way removing them can. Keep this firmly in mind: the kind of gameplay that City of Heroes encouraged by virtue of dev, well, to put it bluntly, incompetence, was one in which Holy Trinity gameplay was devalued, role-based teaming was not enforced, and players were far more able to solo than in any previous (and in nearly all successive) MMOs. Sounds great now, but at the time those additional options for gameplay *cost* City of Heroes a lot of players. The devs were getting a lot of feedback that the game was too easy, that Tankers were useless and therefore not fun to play, that too many players were soloing and not joining teams, making those that wanted teamed play less able to find teams on a consistent basis for harder content. A lot of players don't remember or were not around to read these same comments on the forums. I think most people today would say the price of losing those players was unfortunate, but better for the game in the long run.
Just remember what we're saying when we say its always good to add options because you never want to turn away players, when the only way we got those options was by losing players. There's no such thing as bloodless MMO design.
What you call incompetence, I call people being able to play the game in mathematically suboptimal ways while still succeeding.
Devaluing the trinity, every AT able to solo content... that kind of thing is what made CoH fun to me, and I know a lot of other people agreed. What you call incompetence, I call people being able to play the game in mathematically suboptimal ways while still succeeding. Sure people didnt need to play just their role, but if you wanted a team, it wasn't "hey, support looking for team" and waiting for a team with support open... it was looking for a team with an open slot.
These things made CoH good - not bad - and the fact that you cant find that just anywhere else is why I miss the game so much.
Devaluing the trinity, every AT able to solo content... that kind of thing is what made CoH fun to me, and I know a lot of other people agreed. What you call incompetence, I call people being able to play the game in mathematically suboptimal ways while still succeeding. Sure people didnt need to play just their role, but if you wanted a team, it wasn't "hey, support looking for team" and waiting for a team with support open... it was looking for a team with an open slot.
These things made CoH good - not bad - and the fact that you cant find that just anywhere else is why I miss the game so much.
The post i made above, i'd even say City of heroes was, because you had countless ways of playing it, it was the fallout of mmorpgs in a way. Fallout was an rpg where you could manipulate the environment in so many ways, people who like it will frequently say that it's a game that if you picked any skill set, you'd probably still be able to beat it. In city of heroes case, you could do well with any archtype/powerset combination. You don't see that in other mmorpgs.
By in large I was a strong supporter of expansive gameplay options in City of Heroes. And there is a lot of truth to the statement that many people were very cavalier about advocating the removal of gameplay options that other players felt were important to their enjoyment of the game. But I think there is a significant amount of truth to the reverse that people were completely blind to, and that is that it is not necessarily true that all gameplay additions were "free" in the sense of not intrinsically removing others.Good thing to consider for sure.
My canonical example was to note how so many people stated that the archetype system was one of CoH's most unnecessary gameplay restrictions, and that allowing players to just pick whatever powers they wanted was the best option. If people *wanted* to play under more restrictions, they could just do that, so the idea went. How could adding more options possibly devalue the existing ones? Champions Online was a godsend in this respect, because it allowed to me stop arguing the hypothetical, and just point. Champions Online, by allowing ranged combat and high end defenses to be freely mixed, basically destroyed the melee fighter option. It was simply illogical to deliberately handicap yourself by neglecting to take ranged attacks, and doing so put you at an incredible disadvantage to other players, at least at launch and for a long time afterward. Simply put, by adding one option - ranged scrappers - they destroyed another as a practical matter if not technically - the melee fighter. In City of Heroes, there are actually *more* distinct power combination options precisely because the archetype lanes create pockets of valid powerset combinations separated by some distance.
The practical aspect of this change was that CO had far less replay value than CoH did, and even the devs had to acknowledge that moving from the hypothetical framework system they had kicked around in beta to the more open one had actually removed replayability - thus the F2P option was more restricted in powerset combinations. In essence, they brought archetypes back.
Its not always obvious what you give up when to get something else, and I saw just as many players see no problem with adding options that devalued other ones as I did players seeing no problem with taking options away. There is very often a balancing act when new options are added, and its not easy to know when a new option is a genuinely free option to add (i.e. it has no undesireable side effects).
[...] Arcana [...] she [...]
Fix'd! 8)
Of course, as someone with an extensive background in writing, I wholeheartedly disagree with your comments on super hero dialogue. Have you ever watched ANY of the current Marvel Universe cartoons on Disney? Or any of the JLU series? The reason that dialogue is "good" while the 1980 Superfriends dialogue is "bad" has nothing to do with the medium itself, it has to do with expectations.
Thanks for not taking offense. I like to start dialogue, and all of your input is exactly what I was hoping for. Arcana posting on it was a huge bonus, because she brings a ton of experience and knowledge to the discussion.
Disclaimer (I should probably preface all my posts with this....lol):
This is not a personal attack against anyone quoted below--I am simply quoting them to give reference for what I am about to say. I have no fight with anyone here. I actually believe that we're a great community and everyone here who is a friend of the effort to get the game back is a friend of mine. This is simply a little statement/rant about what I've observed about gaming wants/expectations over the past few decades.
And you have a great memory to share of those times because of it. ;)
There are those of us out here in the world that actually prefer to learn by experience than being "throttled" or "forced" into doing something. I'd rather pull an "oops, guess that death means I wasn't supposed to be there yet!" than find out via some kind of message "NO. YOU CANNOT ENTER THIS AREA." On top of this, an open world allows for various challenges ("let's see... I wonder if I enhance with this and choose this and this power, can I go up against an enemy 5 levels higher than me when I'm level 15....") I maintain that more options is better.
If you can't tell, I don't like the "linear story/combat" experience. It suggests there is only "one way to play." And if you make a game that only allows for "one way to play," you really cut down on the amount of people it will appeal to. A truly well-made game (as we all well know since we've all played CoH) is one that allows many personalities and many demographics and many walks of life play it in their own way and have their own experience. Like to travel? Great, we've got it for you. Like to skip the travel? Great, there's options for that as well. Like to do story-based short missions? We've got it. Rather do a longer-term series of missions? We have task forces. You're a PvP person? We've got several zones that are for nothing but that. Interested in just dressing up and RP'ing? You can do that too.
Most other modern games (even in the MMO genre) have very limited costume options, extremely limited ways you can play, and--if you're not the Elder Scrolls, Fallout, or Grand Theft Auto--sometimes even limit where you can go. It's as if most developers out there aren't really interested in selling their game. They're more interested in creating something they themselves would play their own way. That's fine in a sense (why wouldn't you design a game you wanted to play?), but then comes the question of sustainability. If you don't have more options to appeal to more people built into the game, you can guarantee there will be a flood of people who will try your game, not like it, and move on.
However, if you build a TON of options in a game like CoH did, you grab a very wide audience that stays loyal to the game because they're allowed to play it how they want to.
What about the people who did nothing but build their base all day? What if they were pigeon-holed into something else and prevented from doing that? What do you think would happen to them? They'd move on and find a game that allowed them to express themselves the way they wanted. Can you imagine what it would be like if you couldn't adjust your UI to exactly how you preferred it? Or put your powers where you wanted?
I can completely understand if something is game-breaking. Or, imbalanced. Or overpowered. I'm not talking about those things. Remember all the people who complained about the new graphics? They still could play the game on their old machines in the resolution they always could, but because there was a new "option" for people who could take advantage of it, they complained. Because they didn't (or couldn't) use it.
I don't know... I just feel like a lot of people don't realize that if they wish for QoL enhancements to get taken away, or fewer options, or nerfs, they're most likely ruining someone else's favorite experience. The immediate reaction of MOST people with this "I don't like it so it shouldn't be there" attitude always seems to be "if you don't like it, you can always leave."
Fine. So, let's say a huge chunk of people decide to leave because they start to get aggravated that they're not allowed to travel like they want to. Or, they don't have as much of an "open world" as they'd like. Then there are not enough people there to support the game you told them to leave. And....suddenly there isn't a whole lot of people to play with...or, even worse, it gets shut down. Would you be happy with the results of "if you don't like it, leave" in an MMO world?
Maybe I should have been a Producer. :P
Certainly a good point, and one I hadn't thought about (probably because I'm primarily a solo player, but when I did team, this was definitely a useful feature).
I was largely thinking of how it impacted story elements (particularly at the end; I can go to Praetoria right after completing the Newbie Intro mission? Cool! What the heck is Praetoria, again?)
Then again, that was always a problem inasfar as new content went in other areas as well- losing a sense of cohesion and continuity. So not strictly a "ubiquitous travel" dilemma.
I can't help but think there could be some more middle ground here, but I definitely grant you this point.
I hate to be negative, but I'm honestly worried that NCSoft might throw the whole deal out of the window because MWM might be asking for too much. I personally think there's definitely a reason NCSoft has been sitting on the City of Heroes rights as hard as they have; they probably plan on making a City of Heroes 2 at some point in the future. Even if it's not for another decade or more. I truly hope that they don't throw the whole deal out because of the attempt to try to get City of Heroes licensing for the various other superhero MMO projects going on. I, personally, have no interest in the successors to City of Heroes, and I hope MWM considers attempting to reopen negotiations if things fall through, but only with the request to run i23 City of Heroes servers.
I might be speaking too soon, but I definitely wanted to voice my concern ahead of time. I still absolutely appreciate and applaud what the group is doing.
Actually, the whole thing went the opposite way of that: MWM was ONLY asking to buy the IP, so all the successor games could reference CoX without, ya know, getting their arses sued off. It was reportedly NCSoft themselves who said, "And hey, we've got this backup of the servers the night the game shut down, so do you guys want that too?" to which Nate and the others said, "Hell yeah!" ;D We still don't know, NCSoft could back out at any point, but it was actually their idea to get CoX running again.
Actually, the whole thing went the opposite way of that: MWM was ONLY asking to buy the IP, so all the successor games could reference CoX without, ya know, getting their arses sued off. It was reportedly NCSoft themselves who said, "And hey, we've got this backup of the servers the night the game shut down, so do you guys want that too?" to which Nate and the others said, "Hell yeah!" ;D We still don't know, NCSoft could back out at any point, but it was actually their idea to get CoX running again.
Actually, I think Arcana's comment about incompetence was meant to imply that it was incompetent because it happened by accident, rather than via design. If the devs had designed all the ATs to solo deliberately, it would have been good design. But since the devs wanted Controllers to be a teaming AT, then having Fire/Kins soloing the way they did, was poor design.
Their design was that Scrappers were to be used for soloing, and everyone else should have problems. And Tankers and Controllers should be desired on teams (but more than 1-2 usually was not that desirable). Since things didn't turn out as they wanted, they clearly did not achieve what they wanted.
That what they got instead turned out to be good is more of a happy accident than competent design.
you just described SWTOR perfectly
Snark will cost you 50 Jedi points. I'm afraid you're no longer allowed to use your Light-side keyboard.
A request to the powers that be. Can we get a stickied post, possibly like a dev tracker type locked thread, to keep theposts pertaining to the deal/negotiations that only includes posts from Nate maybe. This thread like the others onthe topic get easily derailed and its a bit of a job sifting through it to find the important posts. Nothing wrong with all the excitement and chatter, I'd just like to be sure to catch the really important posts if and when they are made.
PS perhaps an 'editors choice' thread with the very best and most clear/concise posts.
A request to the powers that be. Can we get a stickied post, possibly like a dev tracker type locked thread, to keep theposts pertaining to the deal/negotiations that only includes posts from Nate maybe. This thread like the others onthe topic get easily derailed and its a bit of a job sifting through it to find the important posts. Nothing wrong with all the excitement and chatter, I'd just like to be sure to catch the really important posts if and when they are made.There is pretty much not going to be any more information until the talks are further along. Right now, all we're doing is waiting. And all we can do while waiting is talk amongst each other. Further announcements should be in their own thread. You can bookmark downix's posts if you want (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;sa=messages;u=20958), but he doesn't only post about the deal.
PS perhaps an 'editors choice' thread with the very best and most clear/concise posts.
There is pretty much not going to be any more information until the talks are further along.
Yeah, There's not really going to be weekly updates or anything. I think most people's questions have been answered at this point. Now I think it's really just waiting, and killing time.
I suspect that the next actual update with real information we get will either be "we did it" or "derailed" and will be made in a different announcement thread. That's not the sort of thing you just post an update into a 63 page thread and say "oh, by the way, we own City of Heroes now: who wants pie."
That would be the perfect way to announce it.
I'm posting via my phone ATM. I'm posting in the dark in my house without electricity. I didn't express myself too well. I don't think I made myself clear.
There are a great many posts, most of which are side chatter. There are some that are very informative. Some that help clear up questions from new folks dropping in. Perhaps an 'editors' choice thread would be useful.
I fully admit to putting microfiliments in Sprint because it said it boosted jumping. Years later I found out it was adding inches to my jump height only.
I adored fully slotted hover pre-ed, but power boost made it spiffy.
Hover, hurdle, Cj and super speed. Couldn't do without them. The control and speed in combat just hasn't been matched (or smoothly animated) in the hero mmos since.
I keep forgetting about that tidbit. If memory serves, you're correct. NCSoft brought up the I23 server during negotiations, as far as I understand.
I don't remember hearing this detail until the time of this posting.
I don't remember hearing this detail until the time of this posting.
I don't remember that bit either. Just might be new information.
OK people, we might have just had an update. :)
I don't remember that bit either. Just might be new information.
OK people, we might have just had an update. :)
I suspect that the next actual update with real information we get will either be "we did it" or "derailed" and will be made in a different announcement thread. That's not the sort of thing you just post an update into a 63 page thread and say "oh, by the way, we own City of Heroes now: who wants pie."
"oh, by the way, we own City of Heroes now: who wants pie."
There are those of us out here in the world that actually prefer to learn by experience than being "throttled" or "forced" into doing something. I'd rather pull an "oops, guess that death means I wasn't supposed to be there yet!" than find out via some kind of message "NO. YOU CANNOT ENTER THIS AREA." On top of this, an open world allows for various challenges ("let's see... I wonder if I enhance with this and choose this and this power, can I go up against an enemy 5 levels higher than me when I'm level 15....") I maintain that more options is better.
If you can't tell, I don't like the "linear story/combat" experience. It suggests there is only "one way to play." And if you make a game that only allows for "one way to play," you really cut down on the amount of people it will appeal to. A truly well-made game (as we all well know since we've all played CoH) is one that allows many personalities and many demographics and many walks of life play it in their own way and have their own experience. Like to travel? Great, we've got it for you. Like to skip the travel? Great, there's options for that as well. Like to do story-based short missions? We've got it. Rather do a longer-term series of missions? We have task forces. You're a PvP person? We've got several zones that are for nothing but that. Interested in just dressing up and RP'ing? You can do that too.
.
.
.
However, if you build a TON of options in a game like CoH did, you grab a very wide audience that stays loyal to the game because they're allowed to play it how they want to.
.
.
.
Fine. So, let's say a huge chunk of people decide to leave because they start to get aggravated that they're not allowed to travel like they want to. Or, they don't have as much of an "open world" as they'd like. Then there are not enough people there to support the game you told them to leave. And....suddenly there isn't a whole lot of people to play with...or, even worse, it gets shut down. Would you be happy with the results of "if you don't like it, leave" in an MMO world?
Maybe I should have been a Producer. :P
The image of Mickey Mouse is a trademark of Disney, not a copyright. And it's still in force. And Disney is willing to sue.
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/deadmau5-disney-in-legal-dispute-over-mickey-mouse-ear-trademark-201439
Mmmmm... pie...
Disney will be picky with who they go after. They will go after Deadmou5, but they won't go after Hamas' Mickey Mouse xD
That reminded me.... I used to be admin over a few channels on Freedom. One of them was "Freedom TF" which was (obviously) used for organizing TFs. One day, i posted an admin message about pie, and suddenly the channel lit up with "insert pie here" jokes...
Here's a few of the screenshots I took of the submissions (you'll probably have to view the picture's original size to actually read it):
http://s69.photobucket.com/user/ilwzxvn/library/Pie
Disney will be picky with who they go after. They will go after Deadmou5, but they won't go after Hamas' Mickey Mouse xD
Exactly so. As deep into the game as I4 the devs were still designing around archetypes as if they had far more fixed roles on teams than the players felt they should, and were still thinking in terms that trinity-style gameplay could still be salvaged. The "everyone should be able to solo" informal design rule didn't really become a genuine design rule as far as I know until CoV. Look at CoV archetypes, and notice the shift in design. CoV is obviously "post-trinity."That's kinda humorous reading. Sometimes you just get lucky I guess.
But if the devs actually had a strong grasp of how to make the numbers do what they wanted, we would have never gotten the City of Heroes we ended up with. To put it in direct terms, the devs did not have enough control over the numbers to fine-tune archetype power between "lame" and "overpowered" so most things ended up overpowered relative to the design. At launch, powerset combination meant more to your overall power than archetype. Invuln/SS tanker? Godzilla. MA/DA scrapper? Doormat. Dark defender? Awesome. Electric/Fire Blaster? Roadkill. Emp/Electric defender? Useless except as a sidekick. By the time they figured out how to fix it, it was too late to fix: City of Heroes became the best MMO in the history of MMOs to solo in, because the devs handed out powerlevels most admins don't have in other MMOs. They couldn't bring down the overpowered stuff to "correct" levels except in the extreme cases, so they were forced to buff the players upward to balance archetypes out. Players always complained about nerfs, but the history of City of Heroes is an 80/20 buff to nerf empower-o-rama.
Incidentally, the last vestige of trinity-thinking lasted surprisingly long. It was the legacy of Blasters having no alternate design ethic once trinity was no longer the law of the land. In my opinion, it wasn't until Arbiter Hawk started to look at Blasters - literally in I23 - that I think Blasters escaped trinity-thinking; the last archetype to do so. Also, just a bit too late because I24 would have been the first issue to contain the start of non-trinity Blasters (one of my regrets was that I think in AH I finally had a Blaster ally on the dev team that thought about them somewhat like I did, and was willing to experiment with them outside the glass-cannon trinity model, and I'll never know where we could have eventually gotten Blasters to).
In any case, none of this was even remotely by design. It was 100% accident.
Actually, the whole thing went the opposite way of that: MWM was ONLY asking to buy the IP, so all the successor games could reference CoX without, ya know, getting their arses sued off. It was reportedly NCSoft themselves who said, "And hey, we've got this backup of the servers the night the game shut down, so do you guys want that too?" to which Nate and the others said, "Hell yeah!" ;D We still don't know, NCSoft could back out at any point, but it was actually their idea to get CoX running again.As others said...this is really really REALLY cool to hear. I mean...that changes my view of NCSoft 100%. ...And it buffs my confidence as well.
That reminded me.... I used to be admin over a few channels on Freedom. One of them was "Freedom TF" which was (obviously) used for organizing TFs. One day, i posted an admin message about pie, and suddenly the channel lit up with "insert pie here" jokes...My memory sucks...but now I remember why the name "Alien One" sounds so familiar. (Probably from the old forums too) That was an awesome channel. A lot of people thought you couldn't get any good teams on Freedom but my experience was the exact opposite. Forming a team was easy as....pie. :D
Here's a few of the screenshots I took of the submissions (you'll probably have to view the picture's original size to actually read it):
http://s69.photobucket.com/user/ilwzxvn/library/Pie
I remember in the summer of 2004, the idea of an all-defender team was considered a fad, a novelty, but not effective. People who played on the trinity-free team concepts experienced how powerful such teams could be. With corruptors, and masterminds, the variety of 8 buff/debuffers increased. The fulcrum shift was nerfed (bzzzzortch!). Radiation Infection was nerfed. Fluffy was nerfed. Hurricane was nerfed but the all 8 buff/debuffers were undaunted. In the end they threw a bone to the kinetics for team speed boost and also team bubbles and sonic rings.Those were very welcome buffs. I had a keybind for SB...but it was still a pain until that change.
I think one thing you (and everyone else) needs to bear in mind is that CoH became a game where travel and convenience were simple and everywhere.
One of the best examples is the Hollows. Pre-travel powers, mission doors at the far end of the zone, and no hospital. I think most of us have stories about the long slog back from Atlas Park. And then War Witch revamped the zone. Cleaned up the mission door assignments and spawn points. Added a hospital.
From the perspective of a fresh character going through the zone, all of these were vast improvements. From my personal perspective as a veteran of the old version, I think it really only needed the hospital.
And that really my point: convenience and travel tweaks are A-OK, because CoH was all about letting you get to the action and back to the action quickly and simply (which is not the same as easily, because a challenging spawn in the right/wrong place could make it more exciting, as long as it wasn't impossible to avoid/defeat).
I always found the original Hollows to be a fun change.
Slinking around the zone to far doors without a travel power, dodging mobs several levels higher than I was, meeting up with random pug teammates for trysts with Frostfire...it was all a hoot!
I have one (min/max) friend who refused to set foot in Hollows...he felt it was a gigantic waste of time not to be killing everything every second he was in there, save 30 seconds for travel time.
Kids these days, they don't know what they're missing!
And Tankers and Controllers should be desired on teams (but more than 1-2 usually was not that desirable).
Of course, 1-2 Tanks weren't desirable. You needed 8 for a good team...especially on Tuesdays.
I remember in the summer of 2004, the idea of an all-defender team was considered a fad, a novelty, but not effective. People who played on the trinity-free team concepts experienced how powerful such teams could be. With corruptors, and masterminds, the variety of 8 buff/debuffers increased. The fulcrum shift was nerfed (bzzzzortch!). Radiation Infection was nerfed. Fluffy was nerfed. Hurricane was nerfed but the all 8 buff/debuffers were undaunted. In the end they threw a bone to the kinetics for team speed boost and also team bubbles and sonic rings.
I always found the original Hollows to be a fun change.
Slinking around the zone to far doors without a travel power, dodging mobs several levels higher than I was, meeting up with random pug teammates for trysts with Frostfire...it was all a hoot!
I have one (min/max) friend who refused to set foot in Hollows...he felt it was a gigantic waste of time not to be killing everything every second he was in there, save 30 seconds for travel time.
Kids these days, they don't know what they're missing!
brought to you by
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.idx360.com%2Fwarlockinc%2Flordminion.png)
I keep forgetting about that tidbit. If memory serves, you're correct. NCSoft brought up the I23 server during negotiations, as far as I understand.I have to admit that almost makes it sound like they haven't asked for any of the other stuff?
I always found the original Hollows to be a fun change.
Slinking around the zone to far doors without a travel power, dodging mobs several levels higher than I was, meeting up with random pug teammates for trysts with Frostfire...it was all a hoot!
I have one (min/max) friend who refused to set foot in Hollows...he felt it was a gigantic waste of time not to be killing everything every second he was in there, save 30 seconds for travel time.
Kids these days, they don't know what they're missing!
brought to you by
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.idx360.com%2Fwarlockinc%2Flordminion.png)
We were the poster children for "Geko didn't know how to add" when it came to stacking effects. Even after the arrival of inventions, epic powers, Incarnate abilities, and level shifts, I *still* am not certain I was ever on another team with more firepower, and I'm including fully populated BAFs.
I keep forgetting about that tidbit. If memory serves, you're correct. NCSoft brought up the I23 server during negotiations, as far as I understand.
Hehe, hey tankers are pretty good archtypes, just you want to do more than just soak hits and holding taunt down :). Tanker damage was way underrated. They weren't brutes or scrappers but they could still hit more than hard enough to destroy mobs quickly enough. Besides 8 tankers can easily force multiply up with leadership :).
Honestly, from the moment the first steam roll buff/debuff teams left port, nothing really slowed them down.
...
We were the poster children for "Geko didn't know how to add" when it came to stacking effects.
In which Issue? At Issue 1, Tankers did pretty low damage. I recall at least two damage boosts for them, and one was pretty significant. After that, yeah, Tanks became a much better soloing AT. Also, because it was after the Global Defense Nerf, their defenses were no longer so overdone, and you actually had use for multiple defensive options either because you wanted to buff the Tank or you wanted multiple Tanks or something.
Basically, in the beginning, they were unwanted and superfluous after the first Tanker, and ridiculously OP defensively. But after a good amount of decent fixes, they became a solidly-balanced AT that fit in a playstyle outside of the healer-tanker-control (or maybe damage in CoH) trinity.
My memory sucks...but now I remember why the name "Alien One" sounds so familiar. (Probably from the old forums too) That was an awesome channel. A lot of people thought you couldn't get any good teams on Freedom but my experience was the exact opposite. Forming a team was easy as....pie. :D
I myself had no problem getting to the doors in the hollows, it was waiting for the other folks to show up. It always seemed like there were 2 or 3 people who never seem to make it. So yeah, its a colossal waste of time just hanging out for an hour or two. Never mind there was no trainer or hospital in the zone. That doesn't make for a good impression for new players when the contacts push folks to the hollows. A few boring waits at doors or long delays will certainly sour folks on the zone and maybe even the game.
Well the devs decided that yes, the zone was "broken" and revised it. It was *too late* the damage was done. It was something that should have been fixed while it was on test server.
At this point, that's the past, mistakes should be used as a learning experience. I'd rather focus on the first priority.
Getting the game back!
Here was his original riot gear Hollows look.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i25.tinypic.com%2F2cesxt2.jpg)
It looks like there is long blond hair coming out the back of the helmet.
I don't know if it was so bad. It was in the early Hollows that I really learned about the community. What seemed like a constantly staffed taxibot service who would port you from the farthest corner of the zone to the Atlas gate for leveling, etc. there were lots of other examples of folks helping each other in those early days, but the cooperative and supportive atmosphere created by these "wastes of time" led to the (generally) pervasive pay-it-forward player (sometimes us agaist the Devs) mentality. IMHO, it was things like the really difficult missions/story arcs/TF's and the opportunities to help each other that led those of us more interested in community over competition to stay while others moved on to say LoL. I'm not saying that you have to love the hollows or even play in the hollows, but I think that the introduction of challenges that no toon at that time could solo was (intentional or not) was instrumental in developing our current community.
But, what do I know.
I'm reminded of one of the great legends of Union: Mother's Love (or Mumsy, to most of us).
ML was an Empath who frequently hung around in the Hollows dropping buffs and heals on lowbies for hours at a time, just to be nice.
foxfire was the mission that got my wife and I hooked on COX. I loved that one.
Yup! That was me! I ran two or three other popular team-forming channels as well... I was all about doing those Task Forces! :D
Frostfire
They recently lost their suit against Deadmou5, in fact he is now counter suing because they used one of his tracks without permission on one of their kids TV shows!
That's not the sort of thing you just post an update into a 63 page thread and say "oh, by the way, we own City of Heroes now: who wants pie."
This article, from today, states that the suit you are refering to is on-going and that Disney properly licensed the music, despite Deadmau5 objections.
http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/2014/09/06/deadmau5_accuses_disney_of_copyright_infringement.html
Or do you mean another suit? Can you give me a link? I'm curious about this.
I had read an article in Spin Magazine that seemed to imply that Disney's suit was over, or rather that's how I read it. However, revisiting the article I see that I was mistaken and reading things into that were not there.
My Bad :-X >>Spin Article<< (http://www.spin.com/articles/deadmau5-disney-lawsuit-trademark-cease-and-desist-logo-song-theft/)
"oh, by the way, we own City of Heroes now: who wants pie."
Amazing, Congratulations on the Great Work :D
Exactly... I actually had an Empath Defender that I made specifically to do just that.... My fav thing to do was just join new lowbie teams doing sewer runs and keep everyone alive while they passed the "boring" levels (as I like to call them)... :)It worked great on a Sonic fender too. shield the lowbies and put the -res tag on the tank.
I didn't do it often, but sometimes it was really fulfilling to get a few reactions from people who were really new to the game.... "Wow, what kind of a community IS this?!?!?" as if all their previous gaming experiences were with teenage Call of Duty players that call each other horrible names....
C'Mon guys, can you get it right?
Acquired: City of Heroes. Pie: Required?
Exactly... I actually had an Empath Defender that I made specifically to do just that.... My fav thing to do was just join new lowbie teams doing sewer runs and keep everyone alive while they passed the "boring" levels (as I like to call them)... :)
I didn't do it often, but sometimes it was really fulfilling to get a few reactions from people who were really new to the game.... "Wow, what kind of a community IS this?!?!?" as if all their previous gaming experiences were with teenage Call of Duty players that call each other horrible names....
In which Issue? At Issue 1, Tankers did pretty low damage. I recall at least two damage boosts for them, and one was pretty significant. After that, yeah, Tanks became a much better soloing AT. Also, because it was after the Global Defense Nerf, their defenses were no longer so overdone, and you actually had use for multiple defensive options either because you wanted to buff the Tank or you wanted multiple Tanks or something.
Basically, in the beginning, they were unwanted and superfluous after the first Tanker, and ridiculously OP defensively. But after a good amount of decent fixes, they became a solidly-balanced AT that fit in a playstyle outside of the healer-tanker-control (or maybe damage in CoH) trinity.
Acquired: Mandatory proper licensing.
Primary Objective: Research: Proper way :restoring: dimensional fortitude
Secondary Objective: Consumption: pastries.
In which Issue? At Issue 1, Tankers did pretty low damage. I recall at least two damage boosts for them, and one was pretty significant. After that, yeah, Tanks became a much better soloing AT.
C'Mon guys, can you get it right?
Acquired: City of Heroes. Pie: Required?
In which Issue? At Issue 1, Tankers did pretty low damage. I recall at least two damage boosts for them, and one was pretty significant. After that, yeah, Tanks became a much better soloing AT. Also, because it was after the Global Defense Nerf, their defenses were no longer so overdone, and you actually had use for multiple defensive options either because you wanted to buff the Tank or you wanted multiple Tanks or something.
Basically, in the beginning, they were unwanted and superfluous after the first Tanker, and ridiculously OP defensively. But after a good amount of decent fixes, they became a solidly-balanced AT that fit in a playstyle outside of the healer-tanker-control (or maybe damage in CoH) trinity.
Exactly so. As deep into the game as I4 the devs were still designing around archetypes as if they had far more fixed roles on teams than the players felt they should, and were still thinking in terms that trinity-style gameplay could still be salvaged. The "everyone should be able to solo" informal design rule didn't really become a genuine design rule as far as I know until CoV. Look at CoV archetypes, and notice the shift in design. CoV is obviously "post-trinity."
But if the devs actually had a strong grasp of how to make the numbers do what they wanted, we would have never gotten the City of Heroes we ended up with. To put it in direct terms, the devs did not have enough control over the numbers to fine-tune archetype power between "lame" and "overpowered" so most things ended up overpowered relative to the design. At launch, powerset combination meant more to your overall power than archetype. Invuln/SS tanker? Godzilla. MA/DA scrapper? Doormat. Dark defender? Awesome. Electric/Fire Blaster? Roadkill. Emp/Electric defender? Useless except as a sidekick. By the time they figured out how to fix it, it was too late to fix: City of Heroes became the best MMO in the history of MMOs to solo in, because the devs handed out powerlevels most admins don't have in other MMOs. They couldn't bring down the overpowered stuff to "correct" levels except in the extreme cases, so they were forced to buff the players upward to balance archetypes out. Players always complained about nerfs, but the history of City of Heroes is an 80/20 buff to nerf empower-o-rama.
Incidentally, the last vestige of trinity-thinking lasted surprisingly long. It was the legacy of Blasters having no alternate design ethic once trinity was no longer the law of the land. In my opinion, it wasn't until Arbiter Hawk started to look at Blasters - literally in I23 - that I think Blasters escaped trinity-thinking; the last archetype to do so. Also, just a bit too late because I24 would have been the first issue to contain the start of non-trinity Blasters (one of my regrets was that I think in AH I finally had a Blaster ally on the dev team that thought about them somewhat like I did, and was willing to experiment with them outside the glass-cannon trinity model, and I'll never know where we could have eventually gotten Blasters to).
In any case, none of this was even remotely by design. It was 100% accident.
In which Issue? At Issue 1, Tankers did pretty low damage. I recall at least two damage boosts for them, and one was pretty significant. After that, yeah, Tanks became a much better soloing AT. Also, because it was after the Global Defense Nerf, their defenses were no longer so overdone, and you actually had use for multiple defensive options either because you wanted to buff the Tank or you wanted multiple Tanks or something.
Basically, in the beginning, they were unwanted and superfluous after the first Tanker, and ridiculously OP defensively. But after a good amount of decent fixes, they became a solidly-balanced AT that fit in a playstyle outside of the healer-tanker-control (or maybe damage in CoH) trinity.
Thank you, Nate and Ironwolf - and unnamed others - who've carried the deal this far. Thank you, NCSoft, for being willing to try once again.
I wish Irish_Girl and the negotiating team the very best of luck. Let us know when (and how) you need us. :)
I remember just after launch I would play on a team with my brother and some of his friends. One of them was an invul tanker that would do nothing but stand in the middle of the room and just taunt over and over again. I'm pretty sure he would just bind it and go afk sometimes. For awhile tank's were only good at standing around and soaking damage heh.
The Guards Jolteh?
That's on the player. Don't blame the AT. You can't expect to do damage when you don't take, enhance, and use your attacks. You actually hold aggro better when you mix attacks(damage+gauntlet) with Taunt as well.
Yes! I actually ran into Infinite Zen in DCUO over the summer.
Exactly. And some Tanker primaries were better than others at getting and holding aggro. WP/ was never that good at it, yet my very best Tanker was WP/DB. The key? You could slot the area attacks in /DB to grab more aggro (and some of the IO sets for WP/ had taunt boosts, too). It took a careful build, but I got that character to be one hell of an aggro magnet...and quite survivable (MSTF, etc), too.
I remember just after launch I would play on a team with my brother and some of his friends. One of them was an invul tanker that would do nothing but stand in the middle of the room and just taunt over and over again. I'm pretty sure he would just bind it and go afk sometimes. For awhile tank's were only good at standing around and soaking damage heh.
The main purpose of the Hollows was to teach players about the importance of aggro range. Something you learn VERY quickly when the place is full of mobs of 4, 6, or even 8+ gangers, all hanging around waiting to get biblical on your ass.I have to admit the Hollows was where I learned that. Figured out how to zoom out the camera so I could see danger better. Learned how much space I needed to thread the needle between two groups too.
Okay, here is another funny story. Some friends of mine were killing time waiting for some other SG members to show up and we thought, hey, lets go mess around in the Hollows. We were at least level 20+ so no worry about aggro. As we were walking around we run into a bunch of trolls beating drums and doing the "Troll Dance". You know the one where they hop from one foot to another.... So we were like, Hey let's join in. So some of us used the emote for large or small drums beating on them like they were bongos...some joined in the dance. When a low level player sees us and walks up wanting to know why the trolls were ignoring us. We tried to warn him to back off but it was too late....he aggroed the mob and we had no choice but to put them down or watch the new player get mauled. Then after we all had a good laugh. ;Dlol...I love that. :D
Here is a pic of my Police officer character Troll's Taskforce Ted citing a troll in the Hollows for loitering. LOL
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i56.tinypic.com%2Fsynh92.jpg)
I joined a number of the all Fire/Rad teams on Freedom - I think they were on Tuesdays. Amazing how mobs just melted away. :)I did some of those as well. Ever play with a toon called "Satan's Loogie"? (Exactly what it sounds like...his bio was....interesting)
Yup! That was me! I ran two or three other popular team-forming channels as well... I was all about doing those Task Forces! :DI was probably a member of all of them. Always plenty of options to choose from and the teams were full of good players. (Maybe there is a correlation between knowing about chat channels and being a good player?)
Exactly... I actually had an Empath Defender that I made specifically to do just that.... My fav thing to do was just join new lowbie teams doing sewer runs and keep everyone alive while they passed the "boring" levels (as I like to call them)... :)My favorite was hanging out between the Hospital in Atlas and the Hollows gate to give out SB. More than once a newly SB'ed toon would take off for a few feet only to come to an abrupt halt to look around and see what the heck just happened.
I didn't do it often, but sometimes it was really fulfilling to get a few reactions from people who were really new to the game.... "Wow, what kind of a community IS this?!?!?" as if all their previous gaming experiences were with teenage Call of Duty players that call each other horrible names....
I was probably a member of all of them. Always plenty of options to choose from and the teams were full of good players. (Maybe there is a correlation between knowing about chat channels and being a good player?)
Elitist. :)Ha!
Found it:That original quote is not as clear as I would like with the idea that NCSoft offered I23. It just states that the team only asked initially for the IP. There is nothing there about what led to I23 being included. :(
My favorite was hanging out between the Hospital in Atlas and the Hollows gate to give out SB. More than once a newly SB'ed toon would take off for a few feet only to come to an abrupt halt to look around and see what the heck just happened.
I did this with Fulcrum Shift. Yes, I didn't join the team lol, just played guardian angel.
Scott! Good to see you. Thanks for posting, and thanks for starting this whole thing off.
- Warcabbit
Character creator - I am going to see if I can make an Icon port basically to render all the models and existing costume parts - this alone is a LOT of work. Codewalker used a program to map to existing assets - we have to create the assets and the Creator.
I have a small question. With all the talk about coding and what will and won't be possible if we get the game back, I have one question - will we be able to rebuild our supergroup bases? Obviously I've written off the old one, but since I was the base builder for our SG, I need to make plans for the new one.
Would it not be easier for Codewalker to port Icon instead?Good point. The main stuff missing was the server if I understand right.
Assuming it pans out, any feature that was active in the game at the time it was closed should be available. What they won't be able to do is add a ton of new stuff easily.So the Christmas event/Halloween events were not active. Wouldn't that mean none of that stuff?
Would it not be easier for Codewalker to port Icon instead?
Would it not be easier for Codewalker to port Icon instead?
So the Christmas event/Halloween events were not active. Wouldn't that mean none of that stuff?
That original quote is not as clear as I would like with the idea that NCSoft offered I23. It just states that the team only asked initially for the IP. There is nothing there about what led to I23 being included. :(Well i'm not going to search for that now, i have to get ready for a club night. :P Anyway, i was responding to the part of the discussion about NCsoft offering the game to the NuDevs when the initial inquiry was about the IP. It's not going to get any clearer, because at that time Ironwolf didn't know it was specifically the i23 version that was being offered. That wasn't known until somewhere much closer to the time this thread was created. So you won't get much more clarity than you already have since you found out at about the same time as everyone but the NuDev team.
Neither was the Summer Blockbuster...which means the Overwhelming Force IO set probably won't be in play :( I have been going under that premise when making my builds. I just hope the Super Packs are in the game otherwise we lose all our AT IOs :( :( :(Thing is that all seasonal events can be switched on and off without changing the game code, so no access to the source is required. Various seasonal events have been turned on and off in the past without any need to push out a patch every time.
Thing is that all seasonal events can be switched on and off without changing the game code, so no access to the source is required. Various seasonal events have been turned on and off in the past without any need to push out a patch every time.
*nods as if he knows much of anything*
I don't want an identical experience between using my PC, phone and tablet, but I do want an integrated experience: they should all talk to each other as a unified whole (hardware limitations withstanding).
I did this with Fulcrum Shift. Yes, I didn't join the team lol, just played guardian angel.
lol :) pie is always good.
I myself had no problem getting to the doors in the hollows, it was waiting for the other folks to show up. It always seemed like there were 2 or 3 people who never seem to make it. So yeah, its a colossal waste of time just hanging out for an hour or two. Never mind there was no trainer or hospital in the zone. That doesn't make for a good impression for new players when the contacts push folks to the hollows. A few boring waits at doors or long delays will certainly sour folks on the zone and maybe even the game.
Well the devs decided that yes, the zone was "broken" and revised it. It was *too late* the damage was done. It was something that should have been fixed while it was on test server.
At this point, that's the past, mistakes should be used as a learning experience. I'd rather focus on the first priority.
Getting the game back!
Not pie, cake!
http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=090709 (http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=090709)
I loved blasters, from my very early days until the last day of play.
My signature character was Kid Shockwave (hopefully known to fellow incarnates on Freedom), an elec/energy/elec blaster, and I had a ball with him.
Even though fire blasters are clearly more powerful.
Kid traveled through 3 servers, before I was done with him.
brought to you by
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.idx360.com%2Fwarlockinc%2Flordminion.png)
That's on the player. Don't blame the AT. You can't expect to do damage when you don't take, enhance, and use your attacks. You actually hold aggro better when you mix attacks(damage+gauntlet) with Taunt as well.
Exactly. And some Tanker primaries were better than others at getting and holding aggro. WP/ was never that good at it, yet my very best Tanker was WP/DB. The key? You could slot the area attacks in /DB to grab more aggro (and some of the IO sets for WP/ had taunt boosts, too). It took a careful build, but I got that character to be one hell of an aggro magnet...and quite survivable (MSTF, etc), too.
I...uh...wasn't. I wasn't even talking bad about them. This was literally at the very start of the game. He never dropped aggro, he never died, and he had a team full of people to kill stuff for him. So he wasn't even a bad tank. There was just literally no point for him to attack. Plus that was never related to aggro, it was related to damage. And at the very start of the game a tank was not capable of herding up whole maps and killing everything quickly like they were later in the game they just didn't have the DPS which was the point of my post. They were what all tanks in every game are. Meat shields. It wasn't about aggro because no tank in CoH should have aggro trouble ever. Pre Issue 1 or current issue 23 aggro should have never been a concern for any tank.
My example was before /DB. Before Willpower. Before IO's and before sets. And again, had nothing to do with aggro. It had to do with Issue 0 tank damage.
Also: keep in mind, at the beginning of the game, some mez toggles meant the tank COULDN'T move unless they wanted to remove their mez protection.
... cheerleaders just shouldn't teleport under any circumstances.
Would it not be easier for Codewalker to port Icon instead?
Porting a program that loads another program and modifies parts of it over to a completely different game engine is like porting a Ferrari from a Navy Battleship to Swedish Meatballs. It's a nonsensical thing to say.
If you want a character creator in Unreal, you have to make one. That means creating the code to run the user interface, and to load appropriate 3D models and textures, skin them to a skeleton, make animations if you want any, etc.
You probably can't even use the GL ripping tool that the revival team is using to get geometry for the zones. It can pull static models, but models for costume pieces are far from static and have already been distorted to skin them to the player skeleton by the time the model is rendered. Reversing that unknown distortion (the exact transformation varies from frame to frame) would be almost as much work as just creating new models.
In other words, no, that's not something I'll be doing. :P
I guess if I had a question it would be this : If, NCsoft made the deal,which included i23, would it then be possible when the deal is closed,for someone to load the game onto a server and then hit the "on" switch and "Viola", the game is ready to play ? (be kind, I am not a tech ) :)
Mmmmm... meatball covered Ferrari.
I guess if I had a question it would be this : If, NCsoft made the deal,which included i23, would it then be possible when the deal is closed,for someone to load the game onto a server and then hit the "on" switch and "Viola", the game is ready to play ? (be kind, I am not a tech ) :)
Being kind, let's just call that a very high level view.oh, ok, thank you for the clarification. :)
And while trying not to be a jerk, the following is probably not nearly all inclusive.
Some things that will have to be covered include: What servers? Who's admining them? Syncing all the systems (database, engine, clients). Providing security for the servers. Testing the servers. Testing the clients. Testing the engine. Web site? In-game store setup. Advertising the game is coming back. Calculating how many clients the server can support and how many could be expected. Calculating costs for running the game. Calculating cost for subscription. What to do with vet rewards and the like. Auditing the game (should have come earlier in this list). Beginning to look into the needs of the CoH 1.5 group. I'm guessing lawyers will need to be involved somehow. Initial cost outlay.
and oh yeah, setting up the new company who does all of that and hiring de peoples who will do the stuff needed. :)
Hope that's not too depressing.
oh, ok, thank you for the clarification. :)
on that point, I would have to say, " why not?" lol :)
Do you want to be responsible for the cheer-cloud that would cover the eastern seaboard, causing untold peppiness, and choreographed athletic dancing?
If you studied the cheer-science you wouldn't need to ask.
The danger of setting off a cheer-bomb is just too great.
In layman's terms, a cheerleader's natural positive energy could react violently with subspace as (s)he passes through during 'ports, which could lead to a chain reaction, and cheerplosion of epic proportions.
Do you want to be responsible for the cheer-cloud that would cover the eastern seaboard, causing untold peppiness, and choreographed athletic dancing?
I sure don't.
Do you want to be responsible for the cheer-cloud that would cover the eastern seaboard, causing untold peppiness, and choreographed athletic dancing?......says the person named Pep Rally ...just sayin' ...
I sure don't.
Porting a program that loads another program and modifies parts of it over to a completely different game engine is like porting a Ferrari from a Navy Battleship to Swedish Meatballs. It's a nonsensical thing to say.
CoH taught us the greatest super power of all is to command attention just by saying "Ah-urrr!" and punching your palm.
Your policy on voice work should be "if you think you can do it right, hit yourself in the forehead with a hammer until you change your mind."
First off - NCSoft is a company.. their not going to license anything to someone without getting something in return. This means either an outlay of money on the front end, or a monthly residual from subscriptions. I'm curious where the new companies involved are coming up with this capital, or where they plan to come up with it when the negotiation is close to being finalized?
Secondly - as much as I want to be happy about this news.. and oh believe me I soooo want to be happy about it.. the reality is, as much as we love and trust MWM and APR.. there shouldn't be a single one of us here who trusts ANYTHING coming from NCSoft. The mere fact that they have a title sitting on the digital shelf doing nothing for their bottom line yet refuse to sell the whole sheebang without an immense amount of legalese, is just mind blowing. Yes, yes.. I know the Korean corporate culture thing.. ya ya yadda. Reality is, the deal is starting to sound like some of the small snippets that NCSoft was attaching to anyone who wanted to buy the IP outright before closing. To me, that's a laundry list of red flags.
Your looking at having a series of superhero MMO's launch as "successor" to CoX. That's awesomesauce.. total awesomesauce.. HOWEVER.. it also means that each of the companies are going to be competing for a rather small gaming market segment of player funded dollars. This means longer times between updates and expansions, no matter the financial model you use, because your only getting a small segment of the market share. This is going to eventually cause a lot of friction, and even downright hostility between the companies involved. We've all seen it before, especially with the various movements of CoH over the early years. And frankly, I know I don't want to see it again. I would suggest putting your collective heads together, and at least a couple of you merging over, with the consent of a majority of your player base that's financially supported you obviously, and making a banner under which the teams, like true heroes, work together to achieve a common goal. In this case.. producing the best game possible, and keeping as many of us "refugee's" under the same digital roof. Now, it's already been posted that Valiance want's no part of this arrangement, and that's on them frankly. They've got their little red ball and they can run off with it and do their own thing, that's their right. But really.. what's the point of taking the player base from CoX (say it was 100K players) and splitting it all up over 2 or 3 different successor games? Especially if 2 of those games are running on the same engine already? I think the arguments of the past when CoX was ripped away from us by the "evil monsters of digimon land" need to get laid to rest, and the two of you at least need to get onboard and start pooling resources and talent.. and get this ball rolling down the hill so fast that even superspeed can't keep up!
For Chandra....I mean Irish_Girl...just because... he he heSpoiler for Hidden:
If you want a character creator in Unreal, you have to make one. That means creating the code to run the user interface, and to load appropriate 3D models and textures, skin them to a skeleton, make animations if you want any, etc.The character creator is part of the code base that's being provided by MWM.
You probably can't even use the GL ripping tool that the revival team is using to get geometry for the zones. It can pull static models, but models for costume pieces are far from static and have already been distorted to skin them to the player skeleton by the time the model is rendered. Reversing that unknown distortion (the exact transformation varies from frame to frame) would be almost as much work as just creating new models.Not unless you're really sneaky! ;D
There is another mmo, one that was "retired" named Asheron's Call. The company is Turbine, now part of Warner. Anyway, when they decided they were basically done doing anything more with it, they offered players a one time small fee and you can play it basically 4ever. That was a really nice way to go out. Players & company both happy.
Haha, Nice.
This is why I love this community.
Also, yes. Yes I do. It would be funny.
I was probably a member of all of them. Always plenty of options to choose from and the teams were full of good players. (Maybe there is a correlation between knowing about chat channels and being a good player?)
First off - NCSoft is a company.. their not going to license anything to someone without getting something in return. This means either an outlay of money on the front end, or a monthly residual from subscriptions. I'm curious where the new companies involved are coming up with this capital, or where they plan to come up with it when the negotiation is close to being finalized?
Secondly - as much as I want to be happy about this news.. and oh believe me I soooo want to be happy about it.. the reality is, as much as we love and trust MWM and APR.. there shouldn't be a single one of us here who trusts ANYTHING coming from NCSoft. The mere fact that they have a title sitting on the digital shelf doing nothing for their bottom line yet refuse to sell the whole sheebang without an immense amount of legalese, is just mind blowing. Yes, yes.. I know the Korean corporate culture thing.. ya ya yadda. Reality is, the deal is starting to sound like some of the small snippets that NCSoft was attaching to anyone who wanted to buy the IP outright before closing. To me, that's a laundry list of red flags.
Thirdly - the Hail Mary Team.. you guys have done a great job even getting NCSoft to open it's doors, and your work is commendable to an extreme level that no text on a board could adequately convey. That being said.. I hope with all I am that you all continue to fight the good fight, and keep the players in mind that have supported you in many ways. Even guys like me who generally stay away from message boards because.. well.. quite obviously.. what I have to say people generally don't want to hear :)
Lastly.. and this is where I think I have the biggest problem here with all of this:
Your looking at having a series of superhero MMO's launch as "successor" to CoX. That's awesomesauce.. total awesomesauce.. HOWEVER.. it also means that each of the companies are going to be competing for a rather small gaming market segment of player funded dollars. This means longer times between updates and expansions, no matter the financial model you use, because your only getting a small segment of the market share. This is going to eventually cause a lot of friction, and even downright hostility between the companies involved. We've all seen it before, especially with the various movements of CoH over the early years. And frankly, I know I don't want to see it again. I would suggest putting your collective heads together, and at least a couple of you merging over, with the consent of a majority of your player base that's financially supported you obviously, and making a banner under which the teams, like true heroes, work together to achieve a common goal. In this case.. producing the best game possible, and keeping as many of us "refugee's" under the same digital roof. Now, it's already been posted that Valiance want's no part of this arrangement, and that's on them frankly. They've got their little red ball and they can run off with it and do their own thing, that's their right. But really.. what's the point of taking the player base from CoX (say it was 100K players) and splitting it all up over 2 or 3 different successor games? Especially if 2 of those games are running on the same engine already? I think the arguments of the past when CoX was ripped away from us by the "evil monsters of digimon land" need to get laid to rest, and the two of you at least need to get onboard and start pooling resources and talent.. and get this ball rolling down the hill so fast that even superspeed can't keep up!
Some have said that If CoH i23 will be shut down after Windows 9 happens, that it might feel painful, like when the game was shut down before, but I think it would be a fantastic transition.
Some things that will have to be covered include: What servers? Who's admining them? Syncing all the systems (database, engine, clients). Providing security for the servers. Testing the servers. Testing the clients. Testing the engine. Web site? In-game store setup. Advertising the game is coming back. Calculating how many clients the server can support and how many could be expected. Calculating costs for running the game. Calculating cost for subscription. What to do with vet rewards and the like. Auditing the game (should have come earlier in this list). Beginning to look into the needs of the CoH 1.5 group. I'm guessing lawyers will need to be involved somehow. Initial cost outlay.
I know it would be hella (and prohibitively) expensive, but can you just imagine settling into your seat for Avengers II, Thor III, Captain America III, etc., and seeing an advertisement for City of Titans/Heroes and Villains/Valiance Online/City of Heroes 1.5 stuck amongst the previews? I think, just to be sure, I'd better wear some Depends when I go to the theater for the next few years...
I don't understand this idea that the day Windows 9 is released, it will drop a nuclear warhead on CoX from which the game will never recover... Windows 9 will be here looooooooooooooooooong before CoT/CoX2. Not much of a transition, if you ask me.
Lastly.. and this is where I think I have the biggest problem here with all of this:
Your looking at having a series of superhero MMO's launch as "successor" to CoX. That's awesomesauce.. total awesomesauce.. HOWEVER.. it also means that each of the companies are going to be competing for a rather small gaming market segment of player funded dollars. This means longer times between updates and expansions, no matter the financial model you use, because your only getting a small segment of the market share. This is going to eventually cause a lot of friction, and even downright hostility between the companies involved. We've all seen it before, especially with the various movements of CoH over the early years. And frankly, I know I don't want to see it again. I would suggest putting your collective heads together, and at least a couple of you merging over, with the consent of a majority of your player base that's financially supported you obviously, and making a banner under which the teams, like true heroes, work together to achieve a common goal. In this case.. producing the best game possible, and keeping as many of us "refugee's" under the same digital roof. Now, it's already been posted that Valiance want's no part of this arrangement, and that's on them frankly. They've got their little red ball and they can run off with it and do their own thing, that's their right. But really.. what's the point of taking the player base from CoX (say it was 100K players) and splitting it all up over 2 or 3 different successor games? Especially if 2 of those games are running on the same engine already? I think the arguments of the past when CoX was ripped away from us by the "evil monsters of digimon land" need to get laid to rest, and the two of you at least need to get onboard and start pooling resources and talent.. and get this ball rolling down the hill so fast that even superspeed can't keep up!
And that ladies and gents.. is my 2 cents. Or nickel.. heck.. let's call it a dime for inflation :)
No matter how it goes.. I know where my money's already gone and where I'll be playing. I have no problems with that funding moving into a joint company that's going to run CoH-I23 and be the successor company with CoH1.5/CoH2.0.. long as I get my kickstarter bene's that is, and get to use shadowmaul on circle of thorns again at least :)
*flips on my little fly toggle and heads back to the top of the world in AP*
PseudoCool
besides CO and DCUO still being around (and DCUO at least is still getting a good amount of major updates).
So thats mean, City of Heroes is returns? :o
The needs of the CoX 1.5 group are an issue that can be addressed way after the reopening of CoX: IMO, the reopening should be paramount over all.Aww.... -insert obviously over the top pouting face here-
I've said this before, but I can't believe that having four or five super superhero games is over-saturating the market when there are dozens of generic elves-and-wizards fantasy MMOs (with more opening every day).
I've said this before, but I can't believe that having four or five super superhero games is over-saturating the market when there are dozens of generic elves-and-wizards fantasy MMOs (with more opening every day).
I appreciate the effort made by Missing Worlds Media, Inc.
Thank you very much :roll:
I read your article about your talks and *Korean etiquette and...
I still don't understand what this is alluding to, - it's like, NCsoft is tossing out a few bread crumbs and saying
'we'll get back to you'.
As far as NCsoft allowing anyone access to the game, -I'll believe it when I see it.
I'm sure THEY didn't play games gobbling up Paragon Studios but they sure are playing mind games
to 3rd party vendors, and US, the loyal CoH subscribers that helped maintain their business.
* Who's truly being rude here? ;)
1. I don't understand this idea that the day Windows 9 is released, it will drop a nuclear warhead on CoX from which the game will never recover. What? I don't recall any other Windows release that bothered us who were playing this game, why is 9 some unthinkable Armageddon/DOOM?
2. Do YOU run out and buy the new Windows the day it is released, and install it right away? I sure don't. In fact, I don't bother upgrading until.... I buy a new computer. I would be more than willing to maintain two PCs JUST to run this game, were that necessary.
But we don't yet know that it will be.
3. Windows 9 will be here looooooooooooooooooong before CoT/CoX2. Not much of a transition, if you ask me.
Lastly.. and this is where I think I have the biggest problem here with all of this:
Your looking at having a series of superhero MMO's launch as "successor" to CoX. That's awesomesauce.. total awesomesauce.. HOWEVER.. it also means that each of the companies are going to be competing for a rather small gaming market segment of player funded dollars. This means longer times between updates and expansions, no matter the financial model you use, because your only getting a small segment of the market share. This is going to eventually cause a lot of friction, and even downright hostility between the companies involved. We've all seen it before, especially with the various movements of CoH over the early years. And frankly, I know I don't want to see it again. I would suggest putting your collective heads together, and at least a couple of you merging over, with the consent of a majority of your player base that's financially supported you obviously, and making a banner under which the teams, like true heroes, work together to achieve a common goal. In this case.. producing the best game possible, and keeping as many of us "refugee's" under the same digital roof.
With all due respect to downix, I believe his fears about Windows 9 are premature and probably exaggerated.
So thats mean, City of Heroes is returns? :oWhy does this sound like "Gone to the Americans"?
Vet rewards.... will have to be re-earned. Just wait and see. I would bet on it. If you don't have your old account, how could they possibly verify this? Anyone and everyone could claim to have been there at original launch.I wouldn't have a problem with everyone being a "veteran". I might even suggest that most of the players will be long time vets. It was that way at shutdown and everything was ok. I can't see a downside.
I think this depends on how you define MMO - I'm talking about AAA MMORPG titles, and Im not aware of "dozens" of these in the fantasy genre. And what's the market share of these "dozens" of fantasy MMOs? Whats their profit margin, and how viable are they? Whats their opportunity for development and expansion? Id point to ArcheAge, from what Ive read they've had less than terrific success in keeping players.Aion, TERA, Rift, LOTRO, WoW, DDO, Everquest 1 & 2, Neverwinter, Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy whichever and I'm sure I've forgotten some. There are a bunch of them upcoming too, from Everquest 3 to Archeage and that Allods sequel or whatever it is.
I was a paying customer from launch until shutdown.
I have no problem with either starting vet rewards over. I also have no problems giving them out to everyone.
I think more than anything it was most likely just an example of a future problem. Perhaps a poorly laid out one.
Disclaimer: I know basically squat about Win 9.
I've heard rumor that Win 9 won't be shipping with an x32 version. That still leaves the really simple solution of...not using Windows 9.
Aion, TERA, Rift, LOTRO, WoW, DDO, Everquest 1 & 2, Neverwinter, Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy whichever and I'm sure I've forgotten some. There are a bunch of them upcoming too, from Everquest 3 to Archeage and that Allods sequel or whatever it is
And since this is my first post in this topic, unfathomable and limitless thanks to everyone working on getting our beloved game back :)
I ran City of Heroes on Windows 7 Ultimate x64 the last three years of the game or so. You did not need to run it on an x32 version of Windows. In fact I heard more players had problems on Windows 7 x32 than on Windows 7 x64 (because Win7 x64 dealt a little more gracefully with that memory leak that was prevalent on the client).
Ah, the memories. AC was my first MMO, and left there to play Horizons for a goodly while. (Loved the crafting there, and playing a dragon!). After that City of Heroes. After that primarily LOTRO, but always came back to CoX. Just never got over Flying, Radio Missions, Wenty's and Base/IO crafting...
The character creator is part of the code base that's being provided by MWM.
Not unless you're really sneaky! ;D
Demo's are fantastic; the ability to edit them doubly so. Hint: Ragdoll code.
You also lose bone bindings and weights for the verticies in the capture process, which is a much bigger deal for costume parts than is is for say, buildings.
Either way, it's still a huge effort to do that for every costume part, and it's not something that can be simply "ported".
I think more than anything it was most likely just an example of a future problem. Perhaps a poorly laid out one.
Disclaimer: I know basically squat about Win 9.
I've heard rumor that Win 9 won't be shipping with an x32 version. That still leaves the really simple solution of...not using Windows 9.
I was a paying customer from launch until shutdown.
I have no problem with either starting vet rewards over. I also have no problems giving them out to everyone.
Same. Biggest issue for me, as I recall, was that as long time subscriber who left for awhile then came back after the f2p switch, I had every slot on all my toons filled with crafted IOs for which I then had to pay rent or else they were inactive. And the base was full of crafted and set IOs as well.
So, i23 will come back online (God willing) with that same f2p construct, yes?
*I make a remark to the effect that the relaunch of i23 take precedence over all, including successors to the game*
Aww.... -insert obviously over the top pouting face here-
But, in all seriousness.
I don't foresee any way in which our needs would interfere at all with the Legacy servers re-opening ASAP.
More likely than anything, I'd see if the Legacy team needed anything from us to expedite their work.
I wouldn't have a problem with everyone being a "veteran". I might even suggest that most of the players will be long time vets. It was that way at shutdown and everything was ok. I can't see a downside.
I would be fine with all rewards being available to everyone, but I'm not going in expecting that unless we're told we are getting that.Vet rewards are a function of the user database, not the game code. The legacy derver team will need to write a new user database, and it'd be relatively simple to have it set things like "X months veteran" or "VIP" on all new users by default, which the code would then handle normally. That is, however, a commercial decision for an entity that doesn't exist yet, so we'll see what gets announced if there's a final deal.
Since we are not getting the CODE, but just a mirror of the game, I don't think we will get vet rewards for free... because without the source code, how could they go in there and make this happen? [I am incredibly ignorant about coding stuff <------- disclaimer] They would have to modify the code, which can't be modified...? That's why I'm thinking its going to be business as usual as we all start from scratch.
But hey, if it can be done I am all for it.
IF NCSoft kept account data, it would be a small matter for them to check the vet status of each account and send the owner of said account a verification that could then be submitted to MWM granting all the rewards thereof.
I'd even pay for the priviledge. To cover the overhead needed to recover my data.
Play CO for about 30 minutes. They have voice talent. It's bad. As in pure sliced Velveeta cheesy bad.
Why spend the money for the voice acting if it's going to be... bad?
TSW does OK voice acting. It's via cutscenes and works well. But it's rather jarring to be walking towards a contact and suddenly, "WHAM!" cutscene.
I don't have a problem with reading dialog boxes (and I'm not saying that settles it.) Often, in voice overs, I miss what is said...
IF NCSoft kept account data, it would be a small matter for them to check the vet status of each account and send the owner of said account a verification that could then be submitted to MWM granting all the rewards thereof.That could cause some people problems, since they no longer have their original email account however, there could be a work around for this issue.
I'd even pay for the priviledge. To cover the overhead needed to recover my data.
The problem isn't that all voice acting is bad or all superhero scripted dialog is silly. The problem is that voice dialog and the gameplay scaffolding that goes along with it is much more frictional in MMOs specifically than in single player games. In single player games the game runs at whatever pace you want. But in MMOs you have to design all (or almost all) content on the presumption that teams will run it. And SWTOR isn't considered "advanced" because of its voice scenes. Its generally considered to be "annoying" when not being played single-player.
Good design is not about using the most technically advanced features possible. Its about fitting form to function in the best way possible with available technology. With written text its possible for some players in the team to read quickly and dismiss the text at their own pace while other players can read slower, and with the right technology even go back and read it again if they can't read it fast enough. I screencapped all dialog in CoH specifically to allow myself to do that, and I'm the fastest reader I know. Absolutely no one was reading mission dialog faster than I was, but it was still convenient for me to save for future reference. Its not as easy to do that for voice acted cutscenes.
I'm sorry but you're stating a bunch of your preferences as facts. There is NOTHING about voice acting that takes any longer than any other cut scene, and in fact, can be much faster than text based cut scenes that don't have a "skippable" option. If there IS a skippable option, there is nothing about voice over cut scenes that make them somehow "unskippable" anymore than text based ones.
It sounds like you're suggestion is we shouldn't have cut scenes at all, which CoH already has. And lets not forget that voice over work can be done outside of cut scenes, as well. Why do you think they added voice over work to the newer tutorial? To make the game feel less dated than it really was.
The devs believed exactly what I'm saying: purely text based MMOs feel dated, and it's a strike against them.
You may be willing to take that strike. So may the makers of CoT/Coh 1.5, etc. But it is a strike.
And it's one that really doesn't seem, to me anyway, to offer any advantages to it that couldn't easily be countered by simply making voice over work optional.
And voice over work isn't that expensive. I know this from experience. As a matter of fact, it's something that a group of volunteers from the community could get done fairly quickly, probably for free, and in a quality that is at least as good as that on The Secret World, from the comfort of their own PCs at home. I teach Film production, I've got extensive experience in making voice overs, including with effects, etc. Even still, if you wanted to hire professionals, you can get quality services doing one hour sessions of recordings for around 500 dollars, and each addition hour being just 100 dollars. So lets imagine that if we did EVERY cut scene existing in City of Heroes, and added in just ambiance voice over work for 50 contacts (A quick "hello" when you walk up, etc.), based on my experience as a QUICK guess from memory of the game, we're talk 10 hours of voice over work, maximum. Assuming you'd need 5 male and 5 female voice actors to cover the number of contacts you have in the game, you'd be running around 14,000 dollars if you used ALL ten of them for the ENTIRE 10 hours. In reality, you wouldn't, you'd be using each one for about 2 hours, so more likely a total cost of 6,000 dollars.
6,000 dollars. That's for every cut scene in the game to have a voice over option, and for 50 of the most famous/popular contacts to have ambient voice over work.
And it can be done much cheaper. Some quality voice acting talent work for 25 dollars a page for non-broadcast work.
Your argument falls apart. You said $6k for everything, but then $25/page. Both of these numbers are suspect, so let's go and look at what real professionals cost, and how much VO runtime real game titles have.
I'm sorry but you're stating a bunch of your preferences as facts. There is NOTHING about voice acting that takes any longer than any other cut scene, and in fact, can be much faster than text based cut scenes that don't have a "skippable" option. If there IS a skippable option, there is nothing about voice over cut scenes that make them somehow "unskippable" anymore than text based ones.
It sounds like you're suggestion is we shouldn't have cut scenes at all, which CoH already has. And lets not forget that voice over work can be done outside of cut scenes, as well. Why do you think they added voice over work to the newer tutorial? To make the game feel less dated than it really was.
The devs believed exactly what I'm saying: purely text based MMOs feel dated, and it's a strike against them.
You may be willing to take that strike. So may the makers of CoT/Coh 1.5, etc. But it is a strike.
And it's one that really doesn't seem, to me anyway, to offer any advantages to it that couldn't easily be countered by simply making voice over work optional.
And voice over work isn't that expensive. I know this from experience. As a matter of fact, it's something that a group of volunteers from the community could get done fairly quickly, probably for free, and in a quality that is at least as good as that on The Secret World, from the comfort of their own PCs at home. I teach Film production, I've got extensive experience in making voice overs, including with effects, etc. Even still, if you wanted to hire professionals, you can get quality services doing one hour sessions of recordings for around 500 dollars, and each addition hour being just 100 dollars. So lets imagine that if we did EVERY cut scene existing in City of Heroes, and added in just ambiance voice over work for 50 contacts (A quick "hello" when you walk up, etc.), based on my experience as a QUICK guess from memory of the game, we're talk 10 hours of voice over work, maximum. Assuming you'd need 5 male and 5 female voice actors to cover the number of contacts you have in the game, you'd be running around 14,000 dollars if you used ALL ten of them for the ENTIRE 10 hours. In reality, you wouldn't, you'd be using each one for about 2 hours, so more likely a total cost of 6,000 dollars.
6,000 dollars. That's for every cut scene in the game to have a voice over option, and for 50 of the most famous/popular contacts to have ambient voice over work.
And it can be done much cheaper. Some quality voice acting talent work for 25 dollars a page for non-broadcast work.
If the revived CoX has about 3400 subs at $15, it will net $500k/month.There is no $6k investment here. It's a $10,000,000 investment.
Makes a $6000 investment seem a no-brainer. :roll:
There is no $6k investment here. It's a $10,000,000 investment.
For the record...I could give a crap less about voice acting..
Ah, the memories. AC was my first MMO, and left there to play Horizons for a goodly while. (Loved the crafting there, and playing a dragon!). After that City of Heroes. After that primarily LOTRO, but always came back to CoX. Just never got over Flying, Radio Missions, Wenty's and Base/IO crafting...
For the record...I could give a crap less about voice acting..
1. I don't understand this idea that the day Windows 9 is released, it will drop a nuclear warhead on CoX from which the game will never recover. What? I don't recall any other Windows release that bothered us who were playing this game, why is 9 some unthinkable Armageddon/DOOM?
2. Do YOU run out and buy the new Windows the day it is released, and install it right away? I sure don't. In fact, I don't bother upgrading until.... I buy a new computer. I would be more than willing to maintain two PCs JUST to run this game, were that necessary.
But we don't yet know that it will be.
3. Windows 9 will be here looooooooooooooooooong before CoT/CoX2. Not much of a transition, if you ask me.
For the record...I could give a crap less about voice acting..
And it can be done much cheaper. Some quality voice acting talent work for 25 dollars a page for non-broadcast work.
There is no $6k investment here. It's a $10,000,000 investment.
APR and the i23 server are completely separate. The i23 server (what some have started referring to as "Legacy City of Heroes" when also talking about APR) is going to be running City of heroes, Issue 23. It will not/can not be updated, as the source code is not being made available. (This is required for modifying either the server or client in any meaningful way.)
Atlas Park Revival (A.K.A: APR, Revival, CoH 1.5, CoH 2, "Wow, That's pretty.") is a project that is re-building the entirety of City of Heroes inside a more modern game engine. Specifically, Unreal Engine 4. It will be the same City, same game play, same lore and enemies. But it will be running on new technology that will allow us to update the game almost indefinitely, as well as do things that were nearly impossible with the old engine.
If you'd like to know more: http://apr.pc-logix.com/index.php?/topic/62-revival-faq-and-discussion/ (http://apr.pc-logix.com/index.php?/topic/62-revival-faq-and-discussion/)
No, that is how much it would cost to meet the level of voice acting suggested, using standard rates.
Excuse me?
Did you say 10 million dollars?
Is that the asking price for what NcSoft is offering?
downix,$100/min of finished audio VO work is cheap. I've seen it go to the tens of thousands.
VO is way over charging at $100/min. You are paying for the shiny logo and smiles.
Having sold advertising and marketing in large metro areas, I can tell you that voice talent is not paid by the minute.
They are paid by the unit of work.
I hired voice talent for extremely reasonable prices.
I would say that if you really want voice over work, then research it start to finish with all content required, get with the companies, find out how much it will cost, and get it funded - then approach whoever about making a version of the game or an option within the game for that or something.That's close to what we did, only we did several breakdowns - for all VO, for just cutscenes, for tutorials, and used preliminary estimates of the content volume involved.
Me thinks the people can negotiate this with NC Soft while also paying them X amount of dollars just to access the data. They will say, we don't want access to the information, but we will negotiate a price for the end users to have access to that data. If that end user is willing to pay to have their data retrieved, then you can charge them X more amount of dollars individually. In a sense this will have NC Soft double dipping for the same piece of information and will probably be incising enough for them to release it.
I wouldn't have a problem with everyone being a "veteran". I might even suggest that most of the players will be long time vets. It was that way at shutdown and everything was ok. I can't see a downside.
Your argument falls apart. You said $6k for everything, but then $25/page. Both of these numbers are suspect, so let's go and look at what real professionals cost, and how much VO runtime real game titles have.
For a typical MMORPG, we are talking about 100,000 minutes of dialog to voice. According to Interactive Voices, Inc, one of the largest VO management groups in the US, the going rate is $100 per minute of recorded dialog. That's $10 million to record.
No, that is how much it would cost to meet the level of voice acting suggested, using standard rates.
$100/min of finished audio VO work is cheap. I've seen it go to the tens of thousands.
VO work is more than just the voice actors, it is the producers, the sound engineers, the mixers, the studio rental.
And realize that you need to run the same dialog over multiple times, one for each language supported. It is not hard to see how you can get 100k minutes of dialog quickly.
the veteran stuff doesnt bother me.. Id like to see a way to regain the levels and IO's but that gets very close to Pay 2 Win which I realize a very large majority have an issue with..
Of course, the Paragon Store itself was actually ran by an outside company unless I'm terribly mistaken. This would make reopening it for business a little more complex.
I'm kind of surprised there is such a desire for previous character data. I miss my characters and all don't get me wrong, but I am actually looking forward to the day that I can start them from scratch and play them from 'start to finish' all over again. Sure, you could always /respec but think about starting over with a clean slate right from the start. Especially getting to start over and getting to play all of that content all over the place that we just played as it came out.
I can't imagine *not* wanting to re-explore the whole world again one I'm back inside the game - plenty of time to get all of the location badges, and plenty of others as I'm sure I won't be the only one vying for raids to be spawned, TFs to be formed, you name it.
I dunno - I guess it would be cool to just have all my toons waiting for me, but again - I'm kind of looking forward to logging in, and having a bunch of empty slots staring back at me... just waiting for me to create (and destroy)! :)
A lot will depend on just what is in this mysterious 'server image'.That statement makes slightly less than no sense. They are negotiating with NCsoft to acquire the server image. NCsoft owns the game outright; IP, source code, account information, server images, everything. There was no need for an employee to "liberate" anything since NCsoft owned it lock, stock, and barrel.
This could simply be a cover to use files that an employee "liberated" before the shutdown.
Your argument falls apart. You said $6k for everything, but then $25/page. Both of these numbers are suspect, so let's go and look at what real professionals cost, and how much VO runtime real game titles have.
For a typical MMORPG, we are talking about 100,000 minutes of dialog to voice. According to Interactive Voices, Inc, one of the largest VO management groups in the US, the going rate is $100 per minute of recorded dialog. That's $10 million to record.
Given that NcSoft apparently didn't keep anything other than an image of the game, is it likely they will have the data that can indicate how long someone was subbed to a game that no longer exists?
Does that include the actors as well? I work in a recording studio and while we specialize in music we do voice over's too sometimes for commercials and auditions. Nothing to big but we have done a few auditions for people trying to get small roles in some well known animated movies. We charge an hourly rate of $60 an hour for our services. Given we are doing 10-20 minutes of VO at a time. And we certainly are not one of the biggest VO companies in the US either. I was just curious what was included for that rate because if you had actors already paid and you were confident in their ability to capture the moment you could record all 100,000 minutes for $99,960 at our studio. Still way more money then $6000.That would include the actors.
Not exacty, what is being negotiated is to lease the IP, have a holding company run the Legacy CoH using an image and NCSoft keeps the source code. It is available but not for sale as apparently it gives away the setup of some other games. The data may not be possible to link to this image - easily. They have said repeatedly - FOR NOW.
If NCSoft is just leasing the ip then couldn't they if CoT included CoH cannon...couldn't they shut CoT down later then? :S
No disrespect Downix, but you're wrong on this one.
Just plain wrong.
And you've now got three people who have worked in this exact field telling you so. You're comparing budgets and companies used in AAA productions to what we're talking about, and that makes no sense. If we had that mentality, CoT would never have made it out of kickstarter. It's like someone saying "you can't make an MMO for less than a million dollar kick starter. Star Wars The Old Republic cost 200 million to make."
Sure, it did. But you aren't making ST:TOR and it didn't HAVE to cost that much.
Not exacty, what is being negotiated is to lease the IP, have a holding company run the Legacy CoH using an image and NCSoft keeps the source code.Downix said NCsoft is SELLING the IP (e.g. the story/characters part of the game), not leasing it.
I wondered if they could just give all subscribers XP buffs. Everquest 2 does this. And if they opened up all vet and shop power set/costumes to subscribers too, we'd be back to where our old accounts were in no time. And think about how fun it would be just getting characters leveling again. It would be like back at launch, only with 23 issues' worth of extra fringe benefits. ;D
EDIT: Ugh, I'm getting so damn tired of people not reading.
Downix said NCsoft is SELLING the IP (e.g. the story/characters part of the game), not leasing it.
NCsoft is LEASING the engine (e.g. the mechanics part of the game) to CoHI23.
Whatever company is set up to PURCHASE the IP will then turn around and lease it to successors, if they want.
EDIT: Ugh, I'm getting so damn tired of people not reading.
That would include the actors.
And that is 100,000 minutes *finished*, not raw recording time. With a typical recording ratio of 12:1, that means 1.2 million minutes of audio recorded, if you went straight through. Considering half to 2/3rd of time is not actively recording, we're looking at closer to 3.6 million minutes of studio time. It would be $3.6 million to rent your studio for such a project. Add in the voice actors....
Downix said NCsoft is SELLING the IP (e.g. the story/characters part of the game), not leasing it.
NCsoft is LEASING the engine (e.g. the mechanics part of the game) to CoHI23.
Whatever company is set up to PURCHASE the IP will then turn around and lease it to successors, if they want.
If you'd like, I can post -links- to companies that provide quality voice over work/talent. community.
...just like you're doing right now with Irish Girl and APR.
I believe the problem is they think you are speaking of the short term, when you are in-fact speaking of the price of the long-term finished product.I always try and think long-term here. Otherwise you run out of money.
I hired voice talent for extremely reasonable prices.
So, am I understanding ... Nate got the ball rolling, but now it's in the hands of South Korean folks who are negotiating a deal to buy the IP for a company.That depends on the particulars of the deal. There are a half-dozen possible structures laid out, with different possible people depending on the structure.
And Nate will not be involved in running that company, but we don't know who exactly WILL be running that company (which may not exist but is being planned for)
So the masks for the folks who are negotiating and potentially purchasing and running and putting up the MOO-LAH for all this are still on. No?
Or am I missing something -- I keep seeing that the structure of the company is not yet determined, but I also read that "we know who will be running the servers" --
Do we know who WILL be involved in the new IP company if the deal is successful, and we're just not saying... or does nobody know... confus-ed.
No.
Right, so you'll have to wait on that to be ready, then modify it to work with COH's character model. From what I've seen of CoT character model regions so far, I don't expect them to be directly compatible.
Ragdoll only gets you part of the way there, since the "neutral" (0) position of the bones in the player skeleton is not a zero-transformation state. You'll still have to get everything rotated and positioned around the origin just right so that they'll line up when transformed back to the appropriate place on the skeleton. All those cumulative transformations will inevitably introduce a small amount of shearing or non-linear transformation, though probably only perfectionists like me would be bothered by it.
You also lose bone bindings and weights for the verticies in the capture process, which is a much bigger deal for costume parts than is is for say, buildings.
Either way, it's still a huge effort to do that for every costume part, and it's not something that can be simply "ported".
That depends on the particulars of the deal. There are a half-dozen possible structures laid out, with different possible people depending on the structure.
It could be a lot of different combinations of bits and elements and ideas. We simply do not know yet where the cards will fall. All we do know is that we are sitting at the table, and that the cards are being shuffled before dealing.
All I know is that when a VO scene happens in any game it means perfect time for a bio break or go get more munchies/drinks.
Would the first option be considered to be a vowel movement?
That would include the actors.
And that is 100,000 minutes *finished*, not raw recording time. With a typical recording ratio of 12:1, that means 1.2 million minutes of audio recorded, if you went straight through. Considering half to 2/3rd of time is not actively recording, we're looking at closer to 3.6 million minutes of studio time. It would be $3.6 million to rent your studio for such a project. Add in the voice actors....
For the record...I could give a crap less about voice acting..Reading your response made me smile and think of this:
I think the simplest way to do it is to have a "sped up" vet reward system upon launch, in reverse. You can basically "rebuy" your vet rewards at launch for a one time fee for a limited time. x amount per tier. The first week of launch you can rebuy up to the last tier, for x amount. The second week, you can buy up to the second to last tier, for x amount, and pay and additional y amount for the final tier, the next week x amount gets you to the third to last tier, and you have to pay extra for the last two, etc.No problem with either idea here. 8) I'm not rich, but money is still much less important than time.
This way the game gets some much needed capital, players are incentivized to return quickly because the faster they are back the cheaper the vet rewards are, etc.
I would also extend this temporary sale to players who can purchase unlocked level 50s, recipe sets, etc. for a limited time, to help get the game back to full, thriving, hussel and bussel. The faster we have hamis going, incarnate trials, etc. along with new toons the more likely this is to succeed.
Let me start out by saying I personally have no interest whatsoever in spoken dialog in the game. None.To be clear, 100,000 minutes is for all languages needed to support. Your typical MMORPG today really should support English, French, Spanish, German, Chinese, Japanese and Russian. So, reality, discussing about 225 hours of in-game dialog, which is actually pretty conservative for modern MMO's. SWTOR is a monster at over 600 hours of dialog. (I wish I was joking here)
But as someone else who has hired VO talent and directed VO sessions for broadcast and corporate projects, I have to agree with the people who consider these numbers quite inflated.
- The talent rates are high, and yes, we are talking about "good" talent.
- I am not sure where you get the 12:1 ratio. The people I've worked with nail this in 2, maybe 3 takes. Nowhere near 12:1.
- Editing a V/O is comparatively easy and fast. Not like video. It shouldn't take an editor and producer long to get this sorted.
- Also 100,000 minutes sounds like a lot of dialog, that's well over 1,500 hours. I'd think this is a worst case scenario and not a minimum amount. That number I'd expect to be significantly lower. And therefore your multiplier would be lower as well.
I don't mean any offense by disagreeing, but it sounds to me like you got some bad advise when you were investigating the cost of spoken dialog.
In any case though...I am happy without it.
That would include the actors.
And that is 100,000 minutes *finished*, not raw recording time. With a typical recording ratio of 12:1, that means 1.2 million minutes of audio recorded, if you went straight through. Considering half to 2/3rd of time is not actively recording, we're looking at closer to 3.6 million minutes of studio time. It would be $3.6 million to rent your studio for such a project. Add in the voice actors....
Ya I had a part I deleted about how that was assuming everyone could get it in 1 shot and everything was perfect the first time around. Which has never happened in any studio session I have ever done. And that was figured including bounce time too. It would take several hours just to bounce that much audio. And assuming it needed no processing at all, no de-essing, no reverb, nothing. Also after looking at that, I think I should tell my boss to try to do more video game and movie VO. Sounds like there is money to be made in it.If you do, let me know and I'll forward your info to my friends in Microsoft.
I'm sorry but you're stating a bunch of your preferences as facts. There is NOTHING about voice acting that takes any longer than any other cut scene, and in fact, can be much faster than text based cut scenes that don't have a "skippable" option. If there IS a skippable option, there is nothing about voice over cut scenes that make them somehow "unskippable" anymore than text based ones.
It sounds like you're suggestion is we shouldn't have cut scenes at all, which CoH already has. And lets not forget that voice over work can be done outside of cut scenes, as well. Why do you think they added voice over work to the newer tutorial? To make the game feel less dated than it really was.
The devs believed exactly what I'm saying: purely text based MMOs feel dated, and it's a strike against them.
You may be willing to take that strike. So may the makers of CoT/Coh 1.5, etc. But it is a strike.
And it's one that really doesn't seem, to me anyway, to offer any advantages to it that couldn't easily be countered by simply making voice over work optional.
And voice over work isn't that expensive. I know this from experience. As a matter of fact, it's something that a group of volunteers from the community could get done fairly quickly, probably for free, and in a quality that is at least as good as that on The Secret World, from the comfort of their own PCs at home. I teach Film production, I've got extensive experience in making voice overs, including with effects, etc. Even still, if you wanted to hire professionals, you can get quality services doing one hour sessions of recordings for around 500 dollars, and each addition hour being just 100 dollars. So lets imagine that if we did EVERY cut scene existing in City of Heroes, and added in just ambiance voice over work for 50 contacts (A quick "hello" when you walk up, etc.), based on my experience as a QUICK guess from memory of the game, we're talk 10 hours of voice over work, maximum. Assuming you'd need 5 male and 5 female voice actors to cover the number of contacts you have in the game, you'd be running around 14,000 dollars if you used ALL ten of them for the ENTIRE 10 hours. In reality, you wouldn't, you'd be using each one for about 2 hours, so more likely a total cost of 6,000 dollars.
6,000 dollars. That's for every cut scene in the game to have a voice over option, and for 50 of the most famous/popular contacts to have ambient voice over work.
And it can be done much cheaper. Some quality voice acting talent work for 25 dollars a page for non-broadcast work.
Some people might like voice work - to me and many others it just shatters the role playing experience because it breaks whatever voice you have created and attached to that character in your mind.
I truly wish the first post would be amended or there was a FAQ regarding this... tired of seeing the same questions and misconceptions over and over and over.
Can someone create a sticky post of FAQs regarding all of this please to help calm the hysteria over who is doing what (MWM is not running/buying CoHi23)... that Windows 9 does not mean the death of CoHi23 etc etc..
I know why people are confused...because there is so much chatter in between relevant posts and they are easily missed; which is why I think a sticky FAQ that is locked should be implemented by someone who can in PLAIN language explain things to people.
Of course, the Paragon Store itself was actually ran by an outside company unless I'm terribly mistaken. This would make reopening it for business a little more complex.
If you do, let me know and I'll forward your info to my friends in Microsoft.
The Freedom store was the kind of awful I could write a book about.
I wondered if they could just give all subscribers XP buffs. Everquest 2 does this. And if they opened up all vet and shop power set/costumes to subscribers too, we'd be back to where our old accounts were in no time. And think about how fun it would be just getting characters leveling again. It would be like back at launch, only with 23 issues' worth of extra fringe benefits. ;D
If you do, let me know and I'll forward your info to my friends in Microsoft.
Also insane. MWM would be better off outsourcing the City of Titans store to a nine year old's lemonade stand.
The Freedom store was the kind of awful I could write a book about. No aspect of it, from how the contract was awarded to the vendor selected to the initial design to the awful awful code that implemented it to its performance and (lack of) functionality to the ludicrous rate at which issues were addressed. It was literally so bad if it was a senior high school programming project I would have given it an F.
Now if they could arrange a way for us to pay a one time fee to regain our account data and characters, that would be worth considering.
- I am not sure where you get the 12:1 ratio. The people I've worked with nail this in 2, maybe 3 takes. Nowhere near 12:1.
- Editing a V/O is comparatively easy and fast. Not like video. It shouldn't take an editor and producer long to get this sorted.
- Also 100,000 minutes sounds like a lot of dialog, that's well over 1,500 hours. I'd think this is a worst case scenario and not a minimum amount. That number I'd expect to be significantly lower. And therefore your multiplier would be lower as well.
I would pay up to $100 bucks to get that back.. easily..
agreed
Also insane. MWM would be better off outsourcing the City of Titans store to a nine year old's lemonade stand.
The Freedom store was the kind of awful I could write a book about. No aspect of it, from how the contract was awarded to the vendor selected to the initial design to the awful awful code that implemented it to its performance and (lack of) functionality to the ludicrous rate at which issues were addressed. It was literally so bad if it was a senior high school programming project I would have given it an F.
I'm not particularly bothered by VA in MMO's really. Whilst it might be nice to ge a greeting from your contact, it's by no means necessary. Now, VA to add -ambience-, that I'd go with. Screams in the distance when there's a building fire, or someone getting mugged, or a giant monster rampaging, maybe the occasional half heard conversation of someone using a phone, police radio chatter as a squad car passes you by. That kind of stuff is fine by me, but spoken mission texts and cutscenes? Not really bothered.
I'd love to have a store pretty much the exact opposite of LOTRO's: Responsive, fast, searchable... Is that too much to ask?Apparently all games do stores as in-game browser windows which load complete web pages off the store's servers. Even if the art for stuff in the store is already in the game files, it's not read from the user's computer but from the webpage instead. GW2 in its upcoming feature pack is the first game to implement loading of store assets from game files themselves as far as I know of.
Reading your response made me smile and think of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw)
You just said you do actually care about voice acting. ;D
My understanding of the explanation is is not that that is 12:1 takes/usable takes as it is 12:1 minutes/usable minutes. I admint it still seems high to me noit working in that field but I expect that a good bit of that is "leaked time."Leaked time as well as dialog adjustments. It costs extra to go back, so most studios I've dealt with have turned to dialog adjustments in-studio. "Ok, try changing the dialog this way." Frankly, for many projects, the ratio wound up closer to 20:1 or greater. I used 12:1 because that is considered normal in the game VA field today.
NOT agreed! I'd pay a fair and reasonable fee, not exceeding $20 and preferably more like in the $10 range. I absolutely wouldn't pay $100 though! I'd rather just restart everything if that's how much is asked for!
^ When CoH was still running, I was on a 50mbit/sec line. The store was STILL slow as molasses...
Leaked time as well as dialog adjustments. It costs extra to go back, so most studios I've dealt with have turned to dialog adjustments in-studio. "Ok, try changing the dialog this way." Frankly, for many projects, the ratio wound up closer to 20:1 or greater. I used 12:1 because that is considered normal in the game VA field today.
Restart + subscription fees + costs of things like the tech pack, science pack, mutation pack, super packs could well equal above $100.
Alternatively, since Codewalker explained to me the problems with the Sentinel files: IF they could still be used to partially restore characters such as name, level, powers, IO slotting, the amount of inf on the character and all the salvage they have stored on them, that would be fine. I would then happily head to the tailor shops to reload stored costume files, and happily pursue the reacquisition of all the badges and rerun the incarnate arc and trials.
Sentinel CANNOT be used to restore characters to any kind of commercial server, so forget about it.
If anybody tried... folks would start selling Sentinel+ files of purpled-out 50's on Ebay. Imagine the customer service nightmare when somebody sells multiple copies of the same character, and thus multiple folks insisting that the toon is 'theirs'. And that's before the gold-farmer types decide to start hacking up fake 50's to sell.....
Wow, that's a really great point!
Not to mention that whomever this group is that's trying to buy CoX and get it running in maintenance mode, I hope they've got experience with anti-hacking/anti-botting and gold farmer chat and mail suppression. There's a lot of work that goes into running any MMO. I also hope they can properly protect our new account info once they get it (doubt we'll ever get our old accounts/characters back, but the new ones will still need to be backed up and stored securely and properly too).
And I just hope this small lot of us left here on these boards are enough players to keep the overhead paid with "enough" leftover profit to our new overlords.
Wow, I can just worry about anything given two minutes to think about it, huh? :P
It seems rather like the mindset Nintendo took with HD graphics and Dialogue in the last generation console wars, and we see how that turned out. At least the 200 or so of us who have a Wii U do.
(/Looks around)
DAMN.
Edit: Not disagreeing, as it was a pain looking for the stuff I was actually interested in, but we're kind of stuck with the UI as is if the game comes back, right?
Well for starters, no more trial accounts. Someone starts a new account the first month is free, after that if they don't like it the account goes inactive until they decide to return. Also once an account has been inactive for say 90 days, the character names become available again thus we get a mass reduction in name grieving. Names are still first come, first serve, but if you aren't playing anymore then you shouldn't expect your names to remain.
The gold farmers should be watched out for and neutralized when possible and of course maximum possible security on our accounts.
^ When CoH was still running, I was on a 50mbit/sec line. The store was STILL slow as molasses...Exactly the same here.... I am on a 90Mbps line, and the store was so ridiculously slow, it was....well....ridiculous.
I used to get RMT spam all the time before they blocked trial accounts from sending in-game email. I also knew a couple of people who admitted to buying influence. Always seemed a little silly to me since inf was so easy to get, but I guess some people have to have everything Right Nao(TM).
I loathed the paragon store for that exact reason.
Names are still first come, first serve, but if you aren't playing anymore then you shouldn't expect your names to remain.
I know this because the store traffic was also unencrypted. Yes, the thing you could spend money on did not encrypt its data. You couldn't even blame SSL for the speed of the store.
That reminds me of something, see, I have this question for you guys, when we the deal is successfully finished, if I am not mistaken, you guys will get an I23 disk image that cannot be modified but, will there be a chance of adding a store or will you have to use the old NCSoft one because the iomage disk does not admit any kind of modification? and, if you have to use the old NCSoft store, I guess getting the data for old characters could be a feasible option, right?
Apologies if these questions have aready been replied, I've read that the character data was not (at that moment) part of the deal but I haven't read anything regarding the game store for the upcoming Legacy CoH.-
I know this because the store traffic was also unencrypted. Yes, the thing you could spend money on did not encrypt its data. You couldn't even blame SSL for the speed of the store.
-With Sentinel not on the table, I think the potential new owners of the game should consider using the admin tools to instant level a number of trusted community members to 50 and kit them out so they can begin to float the AH economy, assist new players and in general round out the population so everyone isn't clustered in Atlas/Mercy/NP the first week.
Sorry just a quick question I'm sure it's been answered, what are the odds of getting open source from you guys after? Maybe a payable model, would be nice to play CoH/CoH1.5 on your own terms, plus it gets rid of the fear of it shutting down again. I'd be more than happy to pay even $200 for the ability to modify the 1.5 and develop more content.
Say what? Then why did I spend all that time helping TonyV set up a SSL MITM proxy so that he could capture store traffic for... reasons?
(actually the reasons were to try to snag the item images for use on the wiki, but anyway)
Maybe it didn't at first, but by the end it was definitely using SSL. Now... that little adventure made it obvious that the in-game browser wasn't checking the validity of the SSL certificate's signer, leaving it easily vulnerable to man in the middle attacks. That's nearly as bad as not using SSL at all, though not entirely surprising given the security "measures" that the coh team typically employed.
Improbable to impossible barring Epic going OS with UE4.
This is where I'd like to see them take a page from CO's book. Anyone can use a name that is already taken, because you're identified by your global handle overall and it can optionally be shown in chat as well as your toon name.
So if your global was @Sinistar and mine was @LunaEclypse but we both wanted to name a character "Mr. Sassypants," We'd come up in chat as...
@Sinistar-Mr. Sassypants: LF2M for ITF!
@LunaEclypse-Mr. Sassypants: LOLZ same name but my pants are sassier!
Well the team can actually OS their own code and leave the modder/content developer in charge of paying for their monthly license to UE4's source, this is confirmed by UE4.
Absolutely not. You cannot select a few "trusted" players etc etc. There are many EQUAL ways for everyone to give a surge to the economy and IO sets out there... such as giving X amount of merits to X amount of your first toons.... like 9,999 merits to your first 10 toons created on your account. No system that goes into effect should benefit a few off the bat and not everyone.
Assumes facts not in evidence. Hence improbable to impossible.
What has been assumed?
-With Sentinel not on the table, I think the potential new owners of the game should consider using the admin tools to instant level a number of trusted community members to 50 and kit them out so they can begin to float the AH economy, assist new players and in general round out the population so everyone isn't clustered in Atlas/Mercy/NP the first week.
-With Sentinel not on the table, I think the potential new owners of the game should consider using the admin tools to instant level a number of trusted community members to 50 and kit them out so they can begin to float the AH economy, assist new players and in general round out the population so everyone isn't clustered in Atlas/Mercy/NP the first week.
I would pay up to $100 bucks to get that back.. easily..I might go that high too. Would hope for something in the $50 range though. I know it might be a pain to look up account info, so it's a task worth paying for.
I might go that high too. Would hope for something in the $50 range though. I know it might be a pain to look up account info, so it's a task worth paying for.
And your response made me think of my new favorite song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc) by Weird Al!Ha! I love that song! (Don't use numbers for words...unless you are Prince)
Restart + subscription fees + costs of things like the tech pack, science pack, mutation pack, super packs could well equal above $100.That would definitely be a time consuming task for someone....ergo worth paying for.
Alternatively, since Codewalker explained to me the problems with the Sentinel files: IF they could still be used to partially restore characters such as name, level, powers, IO slotting, the amount of inf on the character and all the salvage they have stored on them, that would be fine. I would then happily head to the tailor shops to reload stored costume files, and happily pursue the reacquisition of all the badges and rerun the incarnate arc and trials.
That would definitely be a time consuming task for someone....ergo worth paying for.
If anybody tried... folks would start selling Sentinel+ files of purpled-out 50's on Ebay. Imagine the customer service nightmare when somebody sells multiple copies of the same character, and thus multiple folks insisting that the toon is 'theirs'. And that's before the gold-farmer types decide to start hacking up fake 50's to sell.....Two question immediately pop into my head:
Okay, guys. No dying on this hill. Right now, with our _extremely_ limited budget, we're not looking into doing voice acting. We are leaving the potential for adding such into the game later, but it's probably not something we're going to launch with, for a number of reasons, not all of which involve purely monetary matters.
If we were, in fact, to add voice acting, it would be for cinematic moments, and for short greeting phrases, much in the way Wildstar does - I independently thought of the concept before it launched into beta. Enough flavor to get the feel of the person you're talking to, but not to read the entire dialogue.
We cool?
- Warcabbit
That all assets we make use of will be relicensable to a third party/releasable to the world. We're trying, but it is unwise to commit to anything other than "we're trying" at this juncture.
Yes, yes it is. I didn't say it would be easy. Nor that I've ever been accused of an excess of sanity, or a lack of ambition.
Ah my apologies. I guess I should not have assumed assets would be custom. I personally don't use anything else on released products for this reason exactly :P
But my point still does stand. The team can still release their work, you just added that it has the possibility that they might not be doing all the work
Not. Going. To. Happen.That sounds familiar.
I really wish this forum had a "like" button. :-)
That sounds familiar.
Heard that one a lot on the old boards for a long list of things that we eventually got. ;)
Slightly different. It's been stated again and again why the Sentinel+ files are useless for any retail relaunch of the game. I do wish people would stop bringing it up, it's getting old.
Slightly different. It's been stated again and again why the Sentinel+ files are useless for any retail relaunch of the game. I do wish people would stop bringing it up, it's getting old.I don't think you read the post I was replying to.
Not. Going. To. Happen.
And allowing some players to use backed up characters that hardly anyone else even knew there was a way to get is unfair to the general player base (and I have Sentinel backups of all 38 of my characters, so I'm not saying this for my own sake). It would put a lot more people off than it would ever help. Not to mention that Sentinel was not ever meant to be functional for a commercial release, and is not.I know I'm heading for a PL team right after launch. Might actually be fun...who knows? Hearing about how quickly it can be done is taking the sting out of it for me.
Let's hope we do manage to get CoX up and running again someday. At that point I think most people willing to come back will be willing to level again from scratch anyway. Maybe they could run a double XP event for the first month of launch or something.
I don't think you read the post I was replying to.
This isn't talking about loading them into the game. This was about paying someone to look at them and try to recreate your old character as much as possible. It would be quite time consuming....and thus would require that you pay for it.
I used to get RMT spam all the time before they blocked trial accounts from sending in-game email. I also knew a couple of people who admitted to buying influence. Always seemed a little silly to me since inf was so easy to get, but I guess some people have to have everything Right Nao(TM).Or right Meow!
What I am interested in (not really concerned about, but definitely interested in) is how the auction house is going to shake out for awhile.
In the very beginning, there will be a distinct lack of resources. After all, everyone is going to need all of their luck charms . . .
Once the supply starts to actually build, then there's going to be a strong imbalance of Inf. available, since we won't have the many years of
"wealth redistribution" that occurred to empower the alts with Inf.
I know I'm heading for a PL team right after launch. Might actually be fun...who knows? Hearing about how quickly it can be done is taking the sting out of it for me.
I would like to settle on whether something is a very obscure thing (people who know about Sentinel) or widespread (people who would use Sentinel files to cheat). Seems like that idea jumps back and forth depending on the argument.
I was wondering the other day if it was possible for the Devs to "pre-stack" the market upon launch. Could they examine the price ranges/availability of IOs from before the close and simply recreate the same market, only with (initially) lower costs?
Or even more, I'm curious how the coding for the market works at all, since it was clearly also linked to our own individual accounts. So if they have a snapshot of Wentworths from the day the market closed, does that include at least SOME character data?
I know I'm heading for a PL team right after launch. Might actually be fun...who knows? Hearing about how quickly it can be done is taking the sting out of it for me.
I would like to settle on whether something is a very obscure thing (people who know about Sentinel) or widespread (people who would use Sentinel files to cheat). Seems like that idea jumps back and forth depending on the argument.
I think it's fairly safe to say that either everyone will get their chars back, or no one will. Anything else will just cause the new owners PR problems.So now I have to wonder if anything will be for sale. If you sell something to one person, then others won't have it.
And allowing some players to use backed up characters that hardly anyone else even knew there was a way to get is unfair to the general player base.
Isn't the question moot since Codewalker (who should know) says it is not useful for this purpose? That being the case the ease of hacking or who knows about is a pointless discussion.Hmmmm...you should also read the post I was replying to.
And I wish it had a "dislike" button. You're really pounding this whole voiceover thing into the ground. No one cares at this point, the CoT devs have said forget it, CoX isn't even remotely ours yet and it's only a snapshot with no source code coming (so no changes to CoX will happen) if it ever goes back up, and Revival isn't planning on voiceovers either. Enough already, give it up. Like this thread isn't clogged enough.
I disagree with the bolded part. If you were in any global channel or teamed at all after the shutdown announcement, you'd be hard-pressed not to have heard at least somebody talking about Sentinel. Everyone I knew was going out of their way to try and spread the word. You'd have to have either stopped playing prior to that or have your head buried pretty far down in the sand to not even be aware of it.
Choosing not to use it is another matter entirely.
The only people I would use the word "unfair" to describe would be those who got their VIP status jacked up by billing cycle, and ncsoft refused to fix it. They couldn't get into many of their characters to save them.
I disagree with the bolded part. If you were in any global channel or teamed at all after the shutdown announcement, you'd be hard-pressed not to have heard at least somebody talking about Sentinel. Everyone I knew was going out of their way to try and spread the word. You'd have to have either stopped playing prior to that or have your head buried pretty far down in the sand to not even be aware of it.
Choosing not to use it is another matter entirely.
The only people I would use the word "unfair" to describe would be those who got their VIP status jacked up by billing cycle, and ncsoft refused to fix it. They couldn't get into many of their characters to save them.
Isn't the question moot since Codewalker (who should know) says it is not useful for this purpose?
Say what? Then why did I spend all that time helping TonyV set up a SSL MITM proxy so that he could capture store traffic for... reasons?
(actually the reasons were to try to snag the item images for use on the wiki, but anyway)
I disagree with the bolded part. If you were in any global channel or teamed at all after the shutdown announcement, you'd be hard-pressed not to have heard at least somebody talking about Sentinel. Everyone I knew was going out of their way to try and spread the word. You'd have to have either stopped playing prior to that or have your head buried pretty far down in the sand to not even be aware of it.
Choosing not to use it is another matter entirely.
The only people I would use the word "unfair" to describe would be those who got their VIP status jacked up by billing cycle, and ncsoft refused to fix it. They couldn't get into many of their characters to save them.
And allowing some players to use backed up characters that hardly anyone else even knew there was a way to get is unfair to the general player base (and I have Sentinel backups of all 38 of my characters, so I'm not saying this for my own sake). It would put a lot more people off than it would ever help. Not to mention that Sentinel was not ever meant to be functional for a commercial release, and is not.
Let's hope we do manage to get CoX up and running again someday. At that point I think most people willing to come back will be willing to level again from scratch anyway. Maybe they could run a double XP event for the first month of launch or something.
Whining about it to the buyers is pointless, though since they're relative amateurs and closer to the community compared to most corporate behemoth-run studios, I wouldn't go far as to say it's completely impossible. Discussing it in the community is less so, because it is still relevant to the future of the game.
As an example, if I had the choice of playing on the official servers and starting over from scratch, or importing all of my characters on a private server with a dozen of my friends, I can tell you that I wouldn't be spending much time on the official servers. The canon and continuity of my small group is more important to me than the overall population, and I know I wouldn't be the only one to make that choice.
The 38 level 50s aren't even that big a deal as most of them except a couple are effectively retired, it's the 80 or so in various stages of progress that it would sting to lose.
As an example, if I had the choice of playing on the official servers and starting over from scratch, or importing all of my characters on a private server with a dozen of my friends, I can tell you that I wouldn't be spending much time on the official servers. The canon and continuity of my small group is more important to me than the overall population, and I know I wouldn't be the only one to make that choice.I gotta admit that sounds interesting. The ultimate "family".
Quite, but it also becomes an issue of maintaining documentation on assets changing hands, etc.
More than once in my career I've had a project hard core hit the breaks because COTS dependancies didn't move forward or were otherwise just not available.
Now, I'll grant you that this might not ultimately be a huge issue. Texture library unavailable? Sound library unavailable? Replacable. Not optimal, but replaceable.
Code libraries may be a bigger deal.
Not to mention just the general negatives we'll have to deal with if we shutter and cannot for some reason release absolutely 100% of a "roll your own CoT server" on shutdown day +1.
What we want to do and what we are ultimately able to do in the end may not be compatible. I'd rather not commit to something I cannot be certain is at least 90% attainable. I'm funny that way.
I disagree with the bolded part. If you were in any global channel or teamed at all after the shutdown announcement, you'd be hard-pressed not to have heard at least somebody talking about Sentinel. Everyone I knew was going out of their way to try and spread the word. You'd have to have either stopped playing prior to that or have your head buried pretty far down in the sand to not even be aware of it.
Choosing not to use it is another matter entirely.
The only people I would use the word "unfair" to describe would be those who got their VIP status jacked up by billing cycle, and ncsoft refused to fix it. They couldn't get into many of their characters to save them.
Was there ever a gold farming problem in CoH? Seems to me they gave up almost the instant they started.
the veteran stuff doesnt bother me.. Id like to see a way to regain the levels and IO's but that gets very close to Pay 2 Win which I realize a very large majority have an issue with..
If NCSoft is just leasing the ip then couldn't they if CoT included CoH cannon...couldn't they shut CoT down later then? :S
Also folks, I wouldn't count on getting the same number of servers we used to have. Those of you with 80+ chars might have to settle for way less.
I'm really wondering what the answer is. I don't mind starting over from scratch. I kinda mind starting over from scratch and not having that pool of inf to fully SO my character as soon as I hit 22, cause man...I hated the days of having to try and figure out which SO I was going to buy with my measly little funds,...
Aye, I would anticipate the number of servers being halved, and the ones that do return would the names of the servers that tended to bigger populations such as Freedom and Virtue.
I can't see the euro servers returning, one of them maybe.
The only people I would use the word "unfair" to describe would be those who got their VIP status jacked up by billing cycle, and ncsoft refused to fix it. They couldn't get into many of their characters to save them.
Also folks, I wouldn't count on getting the same number of servers we used to have. Those of you with 80+ chars might have to settle for way less.
There were gold farmers, yes. However as Codewalker states once they shut down chat and email functions for the trial accounts it got better.
That's why I say that if the game returns, no trial accounts: period.
That helps cut out gold farmers, and those that used trial accounts for name griefing.
You could've just done what I did to get item images for the wiki: cropping screenshots in Photoshop. Low-tech, sure, but it worked.
Perhaps I misunderstood the point of Sentinel when I snagged it before the shutdown - I had largely thought the only practical utility it could have was in restoring what the character looked like, possibly the character sheet stuff.
Is it purely build info?
Also folks, I wouldn't count on getting the same number of servers we used to have. Those of you with 80+ chars might have to settle for way less.
Also folks, I wouldn't count on getting the same number of servers we used to have. Those of you with 80+ chars might have to settle for way less.
...
I still don't get why the other two games turned down the licensing deal. They don't have to include CoH lore, right? And it'd be pretty hard to do anything other than "this is an alternate dimension" at this point, given the work that's been put in specifically to make the lore different from CoH.
So why not take the licensing, slap on an "Official CoH successor" sticker, and go with that?
Doesn't it make sense that the APR/1.5 team should also be the ones to run the legacy i23 servers? Monthly sub costs will help cover the 1.5 development costs as well as keep the i23 servers running. It would also mean that the APR/1.5 devs will have access to the database so that eventually they can figure out how to make a script/tool that ports the i23 users over to APR/1.5 once its ready.
But...but Justice. It was...Justice. It was where I knew 9 out of 10 teams I'd get on knew what they were doing but were still in it just for the fun.
I know it was lonely, but still...
;D
But...but Justice. It was...Justice. It was where I knew 9 out of 10 teams I'd get on knew what they were doing but were still in it just for the fun.
I know it was lonely, but still...
;D
Perhaps I misunderstood the point of Sentinel when I snagged it before the shutdown - I had largely thought the only practical utility it could have was in restoring what the character looked like, possibly the character sheet stuff.
Is it purely build info?
Yeah, I heard about it in plenty of time to back up all the characters that were important to me. I have no idea how it will ever be useful that I spent the time to do that at this point in time, but yeah, I was in charge of 3 different quite popular TF channels, and you couldn't go more than 30 minutes at a time without having someone pop in and say "have you guys heard of this Sentinel thing?"
Also folks, I wouldn't count on getting the same number of servers we used to have. Those of you with 80+ chars might have to settle for way less.A lot of my alt-itis back in the old game was a lot of figuring out what I really liked. At this point, if we get the game back, I'm looking at just 3 characters - 1 each for Blueside, Redside and Goldside. And I think that should do it for me, as I tried every class and quite a few powerset combos, and the list of what really works for me is actually fairly small. I'd rather concentrate on the areas that really work for me, rather than those that were just so-so for me.
Alternatively, since Codewalker explained to me the problems with the Sentinel files: IF they could still be used to partially restore characters such as name, level, powers, IO slotting, the amount of inf on the character and all the salvage they have stored on them, that would be fine. I would then happily head to the tailor shops to reload stored costume files, and happily pursue the reacquisition of all the badges and rerun the incarnate arc and trials.
.........More like:
/Aggelakis?
I disagree with the bolded part. If you were in any global channel or teamed at all after the shutdown announcement, you'd be hard-pressed not to have heard at least somebody talking about Sentinel. Everyone I knew was going out of their way to try and spread the word. You'd have to have either stopped playing prior to that or have your head buried pretty far down in the sand to not even be aware of it.
IO slotting, Influence, and salvage might have been duplicated by one character taking all the good stuff out of base storage, making a Sentinel file out of it, then passing the IO's, Inf, etc. off to another character who is then backed up by another Sentinel file, rinse repeat. So I don't know if they would allow that.I suspect you will be disappointed. The Sentinel files don't contain your story history, and I really wouldn't bet on being able to upload them to a static copy of i23.
For me, it's the BADGES and the COMPLETED STORIES and ARCS that I want back. I would be sad if my characters did not have all of their hideously expensive IO's still slotted, but the badges and records of the stories completed are that character's history. I would feel comfortable re-creating my characters if I had that at least. IF character date is never obtained, I would be very, very grateful if the new devs allowed us to use the Sentinel files to at least re-load our character's story history.
I am one of those for whom regaining all that history is very important.
It would be nice to get our characters back, but at this point, it doesn't look like that will happen. But half a loaf is still better than none. If I have to work up my characters again from scratch, I can live with that.
As an example, if I had the choice of playing on the official servers and starting over from scratch, or importing all of my characters on a private server with a dozen of my friends, I can tell you that I wouldn't be spending much time on the official servers. The canon and continuity of my small group is more important to me than the overall population, and I know I wouldn't be the only one to make that choice.
But...but Justice. It was...Justice. It was where I knew 9 out of 10 teams I'd get on knew what they were doing but were still in it just for the fun.
I know it was lonely, but still...
;D
IIRC City of Heroes granted you 8 free slots per server. When City of Villains came out they added another 4 free slots for a total of 12 useable slots per server. You could then get more slots via anniversaries and rewards or just paying money for additional slots.
I believe the max amount of slots per server was increased to 48, purchase/earn slot tokens to open them.
If half the servers returned and still had that many possible slots that would be fine.
I think that's right. If memory serves, I had 4 full pages of characters for Infinity and had to delete several to make new ones... damn altitus.
Doesn't it make sense that the APR/1.5 team should also be the ones to run the legacy i23 servers? Monthly sub costs will help cover the 1.5 development costs as well as keep the i23 servers running. It would also mean that the APR/1.5 devs will have access to the database so that eventually they can figure out how to make a script/tool that ports the i23 users over to APR/1.5 once its ready.
I was under the impression that ARP=1.5 and they'd more than like be running legacy. Was I wrong?
I was under the impression that ARP=1.5 and they'd more than like be running legacy. Was I wrong?
Also folks, I wouldn't count on getting the same number of servers we used to have. Those of you with 80+ chars might have to settle for way less.True. I got lucky on that one. 2 accounts on Freedom with all the slots.
From my understanding 1.5 will be almost (not exact) carbon copy of CoX with a clean code. The almost is factored by the limitation and possibility from translating over engines. The plus side of having 1.5 they said they can then make updates to the game. The i23 version can't be manipulated. That was my take on the conversation so far.
Aye, I would anticipate the number of servers being halved, and the ones that do return would the names of the servers that tended to bigger populations such as Freedom and Virtue.Since this is a unique situation, I wonder if different servers could be funded by different groups of people and have the various servers still all work together? If there are enough European players, maybe there is a way for them to run it?
I can't see the euro servers returning, one of them maybe.
I was under the impression that ARP=1.5 and they'd more than like be running legacy. Was I wrong?
I gather APR/1.5 will actually be a special instance of CoT's code modified to be a work-alike for CoH (however close that can actually be). Now mind you, there are things I'd LIKE them to not do exactly like CoH (the alphabetical/numeric chest insignias always struck me as too large and kind-of crappy looking for one) -- but it will be something to see how close to the actual game they can get (assuming 1.5 or CoT actually succeeds in implementing at all)
I believe the max amount of slots per server was increased to 48, purchase/earn slot tokens to open them.
My question for APR and any direct successor (taking place in Paragon itself, in the same universe) would be how they're taking care of the old missions. APR I guess I can see including them, but I kind of think it would be nice to start fresh. Rather than including older "go here, kill 10 guys, go there" type missions, start from the very beginning with more innovative stuff. And build in a way to accommodate changing NPCs / story - whether that's phasing or what, I don't know, but making the NPCs of the world a little less static.
Huh. I actually liked the store, but then again, my exposure to MMO stores is extremely limited, so I'm probably not a good judge.
And your response made me think of my new favorite song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc) by Weird Al!
That's a pretty nice scenario, IMHO.
Personally I'm hoping that the new IP corporation makes it possible that fans who know the SCoRE are empowered to help all the rest of us... as a new CoRE to the community.
;)
I still don't get why the other two games turned down the licensing deal. They don't have to include CoH lore, right? And it'd be pretty hard to do anything other than "this is an alternate dimension" at this point, given the work that's been put in specifically to make the lore different from CoH.
So why not take the licensing, slap on an "Official CoH successor" sticker, and go with that?
Also folks, I wouldn't count on getting the same number of servers we used to have. Those of you with 80+ chars might have to settle for way less.
From my understanding 1.5 will be almost (not exact) carbon copy of CoX with a clean code. The almost is factored by the limitation and possibility from translating over engines. The plus side of having 1.5 they said they can then make updates to the game. The i23 version can't be manipulated. That was my take on the conversation so far.
I can guess. The successor projects have already invested a lot of time and energy into developing their own lore. In fact, its probably the case that a significant percentage of the developers in all successor games are primarily or in some fashion lore writers. Given that, opening the door to the possibility of integrating original CoH IP would be a tremendous distraction for them that can only lead to bad things happening.
Huh. I actually liked the store, but then again, my exposure to MMO stores is extremely limited, so I'm probably not a good judge.
It's both. Sentinel files contain the costumes (mostly; it needs some massaging to get to back to an editable costume), builds as in powers and enhancements, XP totals and level, influence, inventory of savlage/recipes/enhancements, and badges.
It's not a complete record of the character as there is some serverside state that the client doesn't have access to, like story arc completion and reward tokens, but it's a close enough approximation for a small or medium sized server of trusted friends.
Here's what I remember about the store: when I needed it, it worked. I never suffered any temporary missing costumes or powers when the store glitched out. Guess I was lucky.
Well not to flog the dead horse or anything, but your description still makes me think that sentinel files may be able to semi restore characters if at all possible. If I'd have to go out and regain the badges all over again, that's fine.
1. I won't make certain mistakes like I did originally
2. As a restored 50, many of the badges would be a snap to get.
3. I wouldn't mind rerunning the incarnate arcs to regain the badges and reopen my incarnate powers.
4. If the costume can't be restored, toss some tailor tokens and go to the tailor shop.
Now granted there is something in the files that can indicate the file was edited/altered but of course that won't stop some people and thus yes it is possible for "bootleg Sentinel files" to emerge. There will be always people that want to cheat the system. However those that receive submitted Sentinel files would have to check and compare them to previously submitted files for example
John Smith submits a file for a blaster that was 50, 2 billion inf, fully purple slotted, 9999 of each salvage item in the game, 9999 reward merits, 9999 rikit merits, etc and the blaster is named The Duke of Nuke. First off I suspect the restoration team would raise an eyebrow at such a character whether they restore it or not.
Then sometime after someone named Jake Riley submits a Sentinel file for a blaster named Nuke of Duke and aside from the name, the rest is the same..... somehow I don't think Jake would get his character back as such a file would like be "bootleg".
As to those that didn't hear of Sentinel or didn't use it....well that it is too bad, however that shouldn't be a reason to stop those that did use Sentinel to use the files to at least somewhat restore their toons.
But anyway, we shall have to wait and see.
Pinnacle player here. If we aren'tquarantinedgiven a server of our own, drunker badgers will be everywhere on the servers. I think you know the only reasonable answer to this.
Mark me down as another who never heard of Sentinel until after the shutdown. I pretty much only grouped with a small circle of friends who had all quit by the end. I am not too upset about having to start over but I am quite sad that I will lose many of my names. I had quite a few names that were 'grandfathered' and would no longer be available if the character was reset. I can only assume that I will not be able to get the names again if/when we get I23 back.
Yes, its my understanding that the Atlas Park Revival project is aka 1.5. I'm suggesting that they be the ones to run the i23 servers as well, if that wasn't the plan already.
As an example, if I had the choice of playing on the official servers and starting over from scratch, or importing all of my characters on a private server with a dozen of my friends, I can tell you that I wouldn't be spending much time on the official servers. The canon and continuity of my small group is more important to me than the overall population, and I know I wouldn't be the only one to make that choice.
I had a friend with 87 billion inf and a base full of high quality purples. what are the chance he would get restored?
I disagree with the bolded part. If you were in any global channel or teamed at all after the shutdown announcement, you'd be hard-pressed not to have heard at least somebody talking about Sentinel. Everyone I knew was going out of their way to try and spread the word. You'd have to have either stopped playing prior to that or have your head buried pretty far down in the sand to not even be aware of it.
Choosing not to use it is another matter entirely.
The only people I would use the word "unfair" to describe would be those who got their VIP status jacked up by billing cycle, and ncsoft refused to fix it. They couldn't get into many of their characters to save them.
:D
I'd say zero, as 2 billion influence was the max a character could hold.
:DYour point? I ended the game with about 15 billion INF. Hint - it wasn't all on one character.
I'd say zero, as 2 billion influence was the max a character could hold.
That was freaking wonderful, thank you so much!
[Dreamy eyed look] Private server... Heaven...[/Dreamy eyed look]
Homer Simpson..... "Mmmmmmm.........Private server......"
I would say you are wrong. there were ways to hold it in 20 billion chunks. I saw him pay the guy that built his base for him with a full set of armageddonsI had a friend with 87 billion inf and a base full of high quality purples. what are the chance he would get restored?:D
I'd say zero, as 2 billion influence was the max a character could hold.
You'd only lose them [grandfathered character names] if you were slow getting back into the game and re-creating them.
There were many different concerns the dev team had to balance with regard to character slots, but I believe the only really important one for a maintenance mode server (or servers) is disk space to hold the character information. And disk space is not today what it was when CoH released, or even when it shut down
Hell, I didn't have that many characters. I'd be happy with 16 character slots, as long as we get to play again.Geez, you aren't kidding. At work, I'm trying to do some database cleanup on a set of tables that are probably two-thirds cruft.
Hell, I didn't have that many characters. I'd be happy with 16 character slots, as long as we get to play again.
It's not about disk space and never was, at least in remotely modern times. It wasn't even about disk space by the time Ultima Online came around. It's about the size at which the database becomes unmanageably unwieldy and slow.
If your database chokes at a few million small records, I'd suggest not using a terrible database. ;D
It does beg the question, though... I'd imagine I/O would probably be the biggest bottleneck for an MMO database cluster.
It does beg the question, though... I'd imagine I/O would probably be the biggest bottleneck for an MMO database cluster. Do characters and all their related data get shunted off to a specific instance of the game db, with some appliance managing the load balancing for new characters? And which would be a better design ...normalized, or more of a flat schema?
Not really. In my experience RAM is the biggest limiting factor, because MMOs like to keep all of their active state in memory, which includes characters that are logged on. They only get flushed to the database when they log off, or at certain key points like zoning. Most MMOs, even if they use something structured like SQL, treat it as dumb bulk storage. Some of the later Cryptic MMOs like STO and Neverwinter don't even bother with that and just keep character records as text files in a file system.
So number of offline characters is not really much of an issue. Again, if your database can't handle occasionally looking up an indexed record out of a few million that rarely get touched, your database is awful and should be replaced.
There might be hard coded slot limits in the code, but I'm sure CW could just patch those away if I randomly posted that I thought he couldn't do it.
Not really. In my experience RAM is the biggest limiting factor, because MMOs like to keep all of their active state in memory, which includes characters that are logged on. They only get flushed to the database when they log off, or at certain key points like zoning. Most MMOs, even if they use something structured like SQL, treat it as dumb bulk storage. Some of the later Cryptic MMOs like STO and Neverwinter don't even bother with that and just keep character records as text files in a file system.
This was obviously the case in COH design as well, as had been seen plenty of times when characters went "back in time" after a crash or unexpected server shutdown. Their active state never got saved back to the db.
So number of offline characters is not really much of an issue. Again, if your database can't handle occasionally looking up an indexed record out of a few million that rarely get touched, your database is awful and should be replaced.
So, you've hinted several times that CoH didn't use SQL Server, and that you've seen the DB in the past... So what DID they use for it? Something custom? Delimited text files? Oracle? MySQL? ....... dBase III?
So, you've hinted several times that CoH didn't use SQL Server, and that you've seen the DB in the past... So what DID they use for it? Something custom? Delimited text files? Oracle? MySQL? ....... dBase III?
We're almost there! ;D
So, you've hinted several times that CoH didn't use SQL Server
You know, Codewalker...I'm starting to get the feeling you don't like databases. *grin*
IO slotting, Influence, and salvage might have been duplicated by one character taking all the good stuff out of base storage, making a Sentinel file out of it, then passing the IO's, Inf, etc. off to another character who is then backed up by another Sentinel file, rinse repeat. So I don't know if they would allow that.
For me, it's the BADGES and the COMPLETED STORIES and ARCS that I want back. I would be sad if my characters did not have all of their hideously expensive IO's still slotted, but the badges and records of the stories completed are that character's history. I would feel comfortable re-creating my characters if I had that at least. IF character date is never obtained, I would be very, very grateful if the new devs allowed us to use the Sentinel files to at least re-load our character's story history.
I am one of those for whom regaining all that history is very important.
Is it time for pie??????? blueberry???pecan???chocolate???maybe even hot apple pie with bluebell ice cream....and sprinkles
Ah, makes sense! Ty for the reply and apologies for teasing.
Why are you saying that? ???
Can't you feel it? Great things are happening in our community! I am certain that this is not a fluke or a false start, these are the post conceptual moments of our beloved City of Heroes rebirth! Bask in the afterglow cause soon the labor will start. . .
We're almost there! ;D
Can't you feel it?
I could, but then the nice policeman said I had to stop it.
Can't you feel it?
I could, but then the nice policeman said I had to stop it.
But by the way, will it be everything the same texture and 3D models and powers and everything in CoH Freedom the same? i like the character model just let me know! :)
We're almost there! ;D
We're almost there! ;DAgain, in point of fact we don't know that. I practically feel obliged to quote Inigo Montoya here: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Again, in point of fact we don't know that. I practically feel obliged to quote Inigo Montoya here: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Again, in point of fact we don't know that. I practically feel obliged to quote Inigo Montoya here: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
The main thing is we have hope and now you know it isn't a false message - it is a real possibility and if all else fails we have a notion of how to approach NCSoft and the fact that they ARE approachable. I have said in the past once you find out some of what happened and put all the pieces together - NCSoft wasn't the ogre people thought they were.I know it's not a false message, but from everything you and downix have told us so far, it's also not a fast process. Who said anything about resentment towards NCSoft? If anything, this has made me far more positively disposed towards them than I have been for over 2 years now. That said, the one detail that has shone through these negotiations to date is that they have been prolonged ones, and may continue on for quite some time into the foreseeable future. In short, we are not "almost there," unless one has a very...extended definition of the word "almost."
If you still harbor resentment towards NCSoft look at the type of deal they are willing to make - have you ever heard of something like this? They are willing to set up a holding company - yes in partnership with NCSoft and allow people to License the City of Heroes brand to be official games based off the original.
They are even willing to set up a company to run the Legacy CoH and let it be self sustaining. I can't help but think that NCSoft has realized they do minimal work, they get money back in licensing and likely a cut of the Legacy server profits little. It is a perfect deal with no risk - because they can just close the game again if needed.
If you still harbor resentment towards NCSoft look at the type of deal they are willing to make - have you ever heard of something like this? They are willing to set up a holding company - yes in partnership with NCSoft and allow people to License the City of Heroes brand to be official games based off the original.
They are even willing to set up a company to run the Legacy CoH and let it be self sustaining. I can't help but think that NCSoft has realized they do minimal work, they get money back in licensing and likely a cut of the Legacy server profits little. It is a perfect deal with no risk - because they can just close the game again if needed.
In short, we not "almost there," unless one has a very...extended definition of the word "almost."
Quit sending out those negative vibes, woman! 8)You can be as optimistic as you want, but I (and Codewalker) are being the voices of reason here at present. Our current position is not "almost there," it's "hopefully we can end up getting the game back, but that's likely to be next year, at least, and that's if the deal goes through."
Edit: My gut feeling is we will be playing the legacy I23 image around Halloweenish. No, I have nothing concrete at all to base that on, but I don't think it is unrealistic either. . .Will you bet $100 on that?
There were many different concerns the dev team had to balance with regard to character slots, but I believe the only really important one for a maintenance mode server (or servers) is disk space to hold the character information. And disk space is not today what it was when CoH released, or even when it shut down. If they wanted to allow everyone to have a hundred slots per server, I don't think that would be difficult to do. It would cost more to have more storage online, but it wouldn't likely cost a lot in absolute terms. There might be hard coded slot limits in the code, but I'm sure CW could just patch those away if I randomly posted that I thought he couldn't do it.
ARP is 1.5, but they will not be running the legacy game. That is planned to be run by whoever runs the holding company that will own the IP.
Will you bet $100 on that?
If your database chokes at a few million small records, I'd suggest not using a terrible database. ;D
2008R2. Why they didn't just call it SQL2010 is beyond me to this day, at least the client components are sane and just call it 10.50. From my experience with SQL Server in general and given how it's used, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work as-is with 2012 or even 2014 if you wanted.I'm using SQL Server 2012 here at work. It's mostly an improvement over our previous version - at least as far as my work goes.
So, a question for @Downix - If this, ah, "holding company" comes into being, whose primary purpose is to act as a licensor of the CoX IP and possibly a "publisher" of the I-23 server, would this company be limited in the types of licenses it could grant? That is, would this IP company be able to license a novel, or a CCG, or an action figure, or would it be limited strictly to licensing MMORPG versions of CoX?
Ironwolf:Misunderstanding at least one element badly, it would not be MWM buying anything. It would be a small group, independent of any current company, buying the IP and setting up the holding company.
My understanding throughout this entire thread has been that NCSoft wouldn't be setting up a joint holding company and collecting royalties into the future, but would be selling the IP to MWM entirely for a one time fee. MWM would then set up their OWN holding company to handle the IP.
Am I misunderstanding? If I am that makes me slightly less excited about this deal since it gives NCSoft some serious veto power over future games designed by MWM and any of the successors.
Can you clarify if I misunderstood either your recent post of what is being negotiated?
Ironwolf:
My understanding throughout this entire thread has been that NCSoft wouldn't be setting up a joint holding company and collecting royalties into the future, but would be selling the IP to MWM entirely for a one time fee. MWM would then set up their OWN holding company to handle the IP.
2008R2. Why they didn't just call it SQL2010 is beyond me to this day, at least the client components are sane and just call it 10.50. From my experience with SQL Server in general and given how it's used, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work as-is with 2012 or even 2014 if you wanted.
All that we know for certain is they are willing to listen to someone pitch an idea for setting up a holding company, letting legacy coh be self sustaining, and sub-licensing the IP."If wishes were horses then beggars would eat."
Whether there is any possibility they'd agree to that kind of thing, or whether an agreement can be reached to do so, that's all up in the air. It's way too premature to be thinking "we're almost there". For all we know they only agreed to listen out of politeness due to the way they were approached.
I'm using SQL Server 2012 here at work. It's mostly an improvement over our previous version - at least as far as my work goes.
The main thing is we have hope and now you know it isn't a false message - it is a real possibility and if all else fails we have a notion of how to approach NCSoft and the fact that they ARE approachable. I have said in the past once you find out some of what happened and put all the pieces together - NCSoft wasn't the ogre people thought they were.
If you still harbor resentment towards NCSoft look at the type of deal they are willing to make - have you ever heard of something like this? They are willing to set up a holding company - yes in partnership with NCSoft and allow people to License the City of Heroes brand to be official games based off the original.
They are even willing to set up a company to run the Legacy CoH and let it be self sustaining. I can't help but think that NCSoft has realized they do minimal work, they get money back in licensing and likely a cut of the Legacy server profits little. It is a perfect deal with no risk - because they can just close the game again if needed.
Misunderstanding at least one element badly, it would not be MWM buying anything. It would be a small group, independent of any current company, buying the IP and setting up the holding company.
Right. Sorry, I actually did know that part, I just forgot since I know You are involved in some way between the two. Still, can you clarify the rest of my question? Will NCSoft somehow still be a co-holder of the IP, at least as far as negotiations at this point are going? Is that what they're asking for, or are they talking about selling the IP entirely to the new company?You literally quoted him saying the new company would be buying the IP. Buying means the seller retains no ties.
I suspect you will be disappointed. The Sentinel files don't contain your story history, and I really wouldn't bet on being able to upload them to a static copy of i23.
See here: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,10284.msg160734.html#msg160734
It would be nice to get our characters back, but at this point, it doesn't look like that will happen. But half a loaf is still better than none. If I have to work up my characters again from scratch, I can live with that.
Can we get a program to convert Sentinel xml files into .costume files?
This way we can download the costume images of our characters into the character designer module.
It is a perfect deal with no risk - because they can just close the game again if needed.How does this happen if they are selling the IP to a separate holding company? Are you assuming some kind of clause in the deal that says the IP reverts back to them if the holding company has to close within "x" years?
Can we get a program to convert Sentinel xml files into .costume files?I just made sure to save all my costume files - all 600 of them. I was amazed the number had really gotten that large. But then, there were evenings where I spent hours just hanging out at Icon, trying on new outfits.
This way we can download the costume images of our characters into the character designer module.
Hmm. My info says...
You literally quoted him saying the new company would be buying the IP. Buying means the seller retains no ties.
If you still harbor resentment towards NCSoft look at the type of deal they are willing to make - have you ever heard of something like this? They are willing to set up a holding company - yes in partnership with NCSoft and allow people to License the City of Heroes brand to be official games based off the original.
They are even willing to set up a company to run the Legacy CoH and let it be self sustaining. I can't help but think that NCSoft has realized they do minimal work, they get money back in licensing and likely a cut of the Legacy server profits little. It is a perfect deal with no risk - because they can just close the game again if needed.
Right. But when Ironwolf stated this:
it seems a slightly different path: what they are selling is the ability to license the IP to the new company, in partnership with NCSoft. I'm fully aware that Ironwolf may have mistyped, or misunderstood since he's not a direct insider, either, but I have no doubt he knows more than I do. So all I'm asking for is a bit of clarification to see if the way Ironwolf stated it is what's being discussed (NCSoft partnering with the new holding company which is buying rights to license the IP but with NCSoft retaining royalties and some control of the licensing) or if it's an outright sale as Downix's posts seem to suggest.
Just curious, since one excites me much more than the other, is all.
THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION ONLY. Any programming experts or those actually in negotiations, PLEASE chime in and correct or clarify my next statements.If the i23 image can't host a working cash shop, or an in-game market (Wentworth's / Black Market), and doesn't even allow seasonal events to be turned on or off, then it's basically sunk before even being installed on a server. Even I might not bother to come back in that case, as I all could do would be to just run around with characters full of empty slotted powers, and with limited costume selection, to boot. Not sure there's much of a point there - if all I want to do is just fly around the city, I've already got Titan Icon.
No access to the underlying code means those running Legacy COH would be UNABLE to make any changes whatsoever. It goes much farther than not being able to fix any bugs. No player account data (from the code) means nothing any of us had in-game will be there: no characters, no bases, no INF, no IOs, no Vet Rewards, nothing. Since the underlying code can't be accessed, there's no way to just give everybody everything (or anything). No access to financial data MAY mean no store; if so, costumes or powersets or other things available for purchase through that store MAY not be available at all, and we couldn't change that--no access to the code. Any special events (Halloween, Christmas, Rikti invasions, etc.) may not happen because even if it's just flipping a switch to turn it on, that switch is most probably located in the code that we won't have access to. I'd go on, but I think my point is made. Understand, I **WANT** to be wrong in this regard, but until someone with actual knowledge of the connections between image and code steps in to say otherwise, I don't think I am.
If the i23 image can't host a working cash shop, or an in-game market (Wentworth's / Black Market), and doesn't even allow seasonal events to be turned on or off, then it's basically sunk before even being installed on a server. Even I might not bother to come back in that case, as I all could do would be to just run around with characters full of empty slotted powers, and with limited costume selection, to boot. Not sure there's much of a point there - if all I want to do is just fly around the city, I've already got Titan Icon.
If the i23 image can't host a working cash shop, or an in-game market (Wentworth's / Black Market), and doesn't even allow seasonal events to be turned on or off, then it's basically sunk before even being installed on a server. Even I might not bother to come back in that case, as I all could do would be to just run around with characters full of empty slotted powers, and with limited costume selection, to boot. Not sure there's much of a point there - if all I want to do is just fly around the city, I've already got Titan Icon.
If the i23 image can't host a working cash shop, or an in-game market (Wentworth's / Black Market), and doesn't even allow seasonal events to be turned on or off, then it's basically sunk before even being installed on a server. Even I might not bother to come back in that case, as I all could do would be to just run around with characters full of empty slotted powers, and with limited costume selection, to boot. Not sure there's much of a point there - if all I want to do is just fly around the city, I've already got Titan Icon.
If the i23 image can't host a working cash shop, or an in-game market (Wentworth's / Black Market), and doesn't even allow seasonal events to be turned on or off, then it's basically sunk before even being installed on a server. Even I might not bother to come back in that case, as I all could do would be to just run around with characters full of empty slotted powers, and with limited costume selection, to boot. Not sure there's much of a point there - if all I want to do is just fly around the city, I've already got Titan Icon.
No access to the underlying code means those running Legacy COH would be UNABLE to make any changes whatsoever. It goes much farther than not being able to fix any bugs. No player
account data (from the code) means nothing any of us had in-game will be there: no characters, no bases, no INF, no IOs, no Vet Rewards, nothing. Since the underlying code can't be accessed, there's no way to just give everybody everything (or anything). No access to financial data MAY mean no store; if so, costumes or powersets or other things available for purchase through that store MAY not be available at all, and we couldn't change that--no access to the code. Any special events (Halloween, Christmas, Rikti invasions, etc.) may not happen because even if it's just flipping a switch to turn it on, that switch is most probably located in the code that we won't have access to. I'd go on, but I think my point is made. Understand, I **WANT** to be wrong in this regard, but until someone with actual knowledge of the connections between image and code steps in to say otherwise, I don't think I am.
If a City of Heroes IP-holding company is formed after NCSoft sells the IP outright, I think the Atlas Park Revival intends to license the IP. Further, I think Missing Worlds Media may loan some of their underlying code in Unreal Engine 4 to the APR folks. I think the Atlas Park Revival folks, who are currently trying to recreate Atlas Park in UE4, will then move towards recreating (with some improvements here and there) all of City of Heroes. This undertaking has come to be commonly known as City of Heroes 1.5. The APR folks will NOT be running Legacy CoH. Just like the CoH IP-holding company, Legacy CoH will be an entirely new company. When (not if; being optimistic here) CoH 1.5 is launched, THEN the APR folks (or whatever they'll be calling themselves by then) will start working on new content/issues/updates for CoH 1.5.
CoH 1.5 has sometimes been referred to as CoH 2, but it really won't be. It'll be a continuation of the old game, with improvements and new content. There is probably never going to be a game that outright calls itself City of Heroes 2.
chances are the cash shop just sent a "this is unlocked message" for slots/costume stuff etc. it was applied to character data (wild guess here) ww/bm was on the game, as were holiday events. they could switch on events without patching, most likely from the server console. they wont be able to add stuff, but they systems are already in the image. they should be able to run a batch turning all characters "on" for costume options etc.Truthfully, this was rather along the lines I was thinking. The in-game market is likely part of the code already, turning the seasonal events on and off ought to be hackable without that much trouble in the worst-case scenario (you'd think there must be some sort of control console tool for the game that would allow at least this much basic control capability), and Arcana has recently stated that she could write us a better cash shop market than the one we had in her sleep.
I always suspected the store was just a plugin and not part of the game code. But honestly that was just an assumption on my part, I really don't know.That was recently confirmed - the cash shop was not only a plug-in, it was managed by a 3rd-party company. So we would just need a new plug-in - something the new owners would be very highly motivated to do.
I want to see the game again. When I installed Windows 7, I lost my City installation, so Icon is no longer an option as-is. :( Here's hoping everything works out reasonably soon and completely well.Just download a fresh copy of CoH i24 and then install Titan Icon.
I want to see the game again. When I installed Windows 7, I lost my City installation, so Icon is no longer an option as-is. :( Here's hoping everything works out reasonably soon and completely well.
Quit sending out those negative vibs, man! 8)
That was recently confirmed - the cash shop was not only a plug-in, it was managed by a 3rd-party company. So we would just need a new plug-in - something the new owners would be very highly motivated to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEj3LA2vSo
Negative waves, man... :)
You can continue to be the Debbie Downer if you choose. It's just a matter of positive outlook for me, by comparison to where we were last year, or even before this project became public. . .
We really are "Almost There" ;D
Edit: My gut feeling is we will be playing the legacy I23 image around Halloweenish. No, I have nothing concrete at all to base that on, but I don't think it is unrealistic either. . .
I think your gut needs more beer. We are not guaranteed that there will be a deal for legacy CoH by October, 2014. The 'online store' plug in to service the micro-transactions has to be adapated from NCSoft sources or rewritten and tested as a plug-in to the I-23 system. If that took 3 months, I would be happy. The I-23 zombie CoH needs some kind of staff to maintain the game and answer player service tickets. This staffing will take time. Plus, putting the binary copy from NCSoft on physical servers and getting the game rolling will take time. The shortest interval will be the dissemination of the revival of an active zombie game through the various social media to alert veteran CoH players it's time to play.
Having said all that... we really are "Almost There" :)
More like:
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2581/3779834896_a9c1d7f4d7_o.png) (https://flic.kr/p/6L1Deb)
;)
There was, at last I was aware, the possibility of some degree of regression corrections ( due to Windows patches, etc ) was not absolutely out, but I'm unsure if anyone has yet to do due diligence on if that is practically doable ( IE, can anyone actually still build the client from code, etc. )
yup, tequila had me up and runing quickly once it downloaded everything ( that itself took a few tries, but nothing insurmountable) you won't have your old toon data, sadly, but you'll be able to tour the ghost town at least
I think you'll be happy if you click this link:
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=9531.0
I had the same issue, losing the hard drive that had my CoH install as well as all of my Sentinel files, but at least this let me redowload and get Icon working again.
Good luck! PM me if you run in to any problems. Maybe I can help.
Lots of reasons: Maybe their lore, stories and quest lines are too far along (or will be by the time the CoX IP ever really gets purchased, if it ever does) for them to begin anew. Or maybe they will have to (or worry that later they will have to) pay for the rights to license the CoX IP. They may also worry that whomever controls the IP may be able to shut them down later.
And as none of us know even the details of what is on the table now never mind if it will go through or not (or what form it will be in if it ever does go through), we really can't blame them one bit. I don't.
Doesn't it make sense that the APR/1.5 team should also be the ones to run the legacy i23 servers? Monthly sub costs will help cover the 1.5 development costs as well as keep the i23 servers running. It would also mean that the APR/1.5 devs will have access to the database so that eventually they can figure out how to make a script/tool that ports the i23 users over to APR/1.5 once its ready.
Aye, I would anticipate the number of servers being halved, and the ones that do return would the names of the servers that tended to bigger populations such as Freedom and Virtue.
My question for APR and any direct successor (taking place in Paragon itself, in the same universe) would be how they're taking care of the old missions. APR I guess I can see including them, but I kind of think it would be nice to start fresh. Rather than including older "go here, kill 10 guys, go there" type missions, start from the very beginning with more innovative stuff. And build in a way to accommodate changing NPCs / story - whether that's phasing or what, I don't know, but making the NPCs of the world a little less static.
Truthfully, this was rather along the lines I was thinking. The in-game market is likely part of the code already, turning the seasonal events on and off ought to be hackable without that much trouble in the worst-case scenario (you'd think there must be some sort of control console tool for the game that would allow at least this much basic control capability), and Arcana has recently stated that she could write us a better cash shop market than the one we had in her sleep.
My intention is to include all current content from City of Heroes, then add new content to it...New stories and such. Then perhaps later on look into updating older content.I do not know if this was asked does this include some of the i24 material?
I don't think I can give more detail on story and such at this time.
Slightly different. It's been stated again and again why the Sentinel+ files are useless for any retail relaunch of the game. I do wish people would stop bringing it up, it's getting old.
This seems a bit strange to me. Were the MWM folks far enough along for this? I didn't get the impression they were up to this stage.
Last word on their CC I'd heard was that they were having issues with the character model. It was showing its seems or something like that.
And If they were going to share their engine, it would need lots of rework to fit the CoH gameplay. The forums over there are full with differences planned to "improve" the CoH model but not a lot of showable pieces.
I do not know if this was asked does this include some of the i24 material?
On the contrary, I'm a huge fan of well-designed database schemas and leveraging things like SQL to enable database servers to optimize the queries, manage the caching, and guarantee consistency. The technology is mature and they are very, very good at it. PostgreSQL is my jam.
IF Sentinel was used, Which I'm not supporting. The best bet, I believe, would be to restore character name, inf, level, Bio, and powers/slots. No badges, no costumes.
Just getting the names back would be grand.
I do not believe so, I've actually been wondering when someone was going to ask this!
Maybe! ;D
Isn't that easy enough? Just make a character with the name you want.
I do not believe so, I've actually been wondering when someone was going to ask this!If you plan on eventually including new material, why not? The data for the new contacts and missions is already recorded in ParagonWiki.
Maybe! ;D
I never used Sentinel (neither did any of my friends). I think we were too pessimistic to bother :(
I never used Sentinel (neither did any of my friends). I think we were too pessimistic to bother :(
If you plan on eventually including new material, why not? The data for the new contacts and missions is already recorded in ParagonWiki.
Everyone is getting a little freaky without your loving support. :)
We're almost there! ;D
I do not believe so, I've actually been wondering when someone was going to ask this!
Maybe! ;D
Technically, this is irrelevant. But I'll mention it anyways.Well, it was basically through testing and was about to be released, so it's arguably like 95% canon. And you really should go read the arcs here:
I never got to try i24. My account was Premium when the shutdown notice came, and before that I had a policy of avoiding test until Issues went live. Preferred to experience the new content Live.
On to the more relevant part!
For starters, when it comes to some thing, Story especially... I'd prefer not to yay/nay anything just yet. My maybe wasn't a coy way of saying no, I've just not made a decision one way or the other.
I don't know the specifics of i24, I've neglected to go actually dig into the details quite yet. Personally, I consider it cannonical grey area.
It was content made by Paragon Studios, led by Positron. So that gives it serious weight.
However...it was not Live, finished content... So that means I can argue it's not canon.
Definitely hoping. Kinda looking forward to rerolling some characters. Probably wouldn't do exact copies, but I can't say. I doubt I would ever get back to 15+ 50s like I had before, but who knows.
Technically, this is irrelevant. But I'll mention it anyways.
I never got to try i24. My account was Premium when the shutdown notice came, and before that I had a policy of avoiding test until Issues went live. Preferred to experience the new content Live.
On to the more relevant part!
For starters, when it comes to some thing, Story especially... I'd prefer not to yay/nay anything just yet. My maybe wasn't a coy way of saying no, I've just not made a decision one way or the other.
I don't know the specifics of i24, I've neglected to go actually dig into the details quite yet. Personally, I consider it cannonical grey area.
It was content made by Paragon Studios, led by Positron. So that gives it serious weight.
However...it was not Live, finished content... So that means I can argue it's not canon.
No matter how good Sentinel is... It's unlikely any team that doesn't HATE their GMs and support staff would ever use it.
For starters, they will hear A LOT of rage like this:
"My CoH account was VIP until about a week before the shut down. By the Sentinel was available, I couldn't re-sub. So I only got like 5 of my characters. How is it fair that (Some guy) gets his 80 characters. It's not fair. "
(True story btw. Had to let my account slip because I had an extra few expenses that month. Only got a few of my 50s because of it.)
Now, they can either limit the number of Sentinel characters (Some guy) has to make me happy, or make (Some Guy) happy. Either way, You're the bad guy.
IF Sentinel was used, Which I'm not supporting. The best bet, I believe, would be to restore character name, inf, level, Bio, and powers/slots. No badges, no costumes.
I am willing to start over if everyone else has too, but yet, I had some toons with a lotta love invested that I would love to get back if there is any way too.
I hope that at least some, if not most or all, of I24 and of the stuff planned mentioned in the Loregasms eventually makes it's way into the game. But it's understandable if it doesn't. Those writers are no longer participating in your project.
We're almost there! ;D
I hope that at least some, if not most or all, of I24 and of the stuff planned mentioned in the Loregasms eventually makes it's way into the game. But it's understandable if it doesn't. Those writers are no longer participating in your project.
If I were on the negotiating team, it would still bug the crap out of me that nobody really knows why they shut it down in the first place.
If I were on the negotiating team, it would still bug the crap out of me that nobody really knows why they shut it down in the first place.
I think the reasons are pretty well known. I can't remember much off hand...and I don't want to misinform, so I'll leave off for now.
And honestly, the team doesn't really need people who are still upset at the negotiating table. No need to add any animosity at this point.
Nothing specific is known/declared about who will run the Legacy servers. That's a common misread. It's still a negotiation point.
Stop rhyming! I mean it!*like*
<.<
>.>
...anybody want a peanut?
I didn't read all the comments. So I just wanted to Thank everyone who had anything to do with this.Same here. I'm giving all of them some of my attention. I'm sure I'll have one which emerges as my favorite (The legacy CoH is the odds-on favorite here), but still plan to keep contact with the others as well. Can't wait to try them!
It's not a done deal yet but atleasts it's something.
One question I saw asked was what's everyone going to do. When all these games are out?
For me personally I plan to support all of them in one form or another.
You expect a one woman operation (no disrespect to Irish_Girl), to develop APR -and- run the legacy game, on her own? Riiiiiight...
My post was based on what Nate said. The current plan is for the holding company to run the legacy game. That might change, but that's the intended plan.
Plus will players have to download a new launcher and any revised I23 COH files? I never uninstalled mine as I like to use ICON at times, but that doesn't mean that it will be what I need to play again.
Especially if you're a Praetorian player (like me), they are absolutely not to be missed. It was awesome just to read them! I deeply regret that I did not get to actually play them.
I saved a few toons, then decided it was too much effort with no promise of return, so I went back to playing. Ended up loosing that HDD so it's moot anyway.
We're almost there! ;D
And honestly, the team doesn't really need people who are still upset at the negotiating table. No need to add any animosity at this point.
My Coh Files including Sentinel files are on a drive on my system and also backed up to each of my 5 external drives. Perhaps a bit of overkill but one never knows.
For a typical MMORPG, we are talking about 100,000 minutes of dialog to voice. According to Interactive Voices, Inc, one of the largest VO management groups in the US, the going rate is $100 per minute of recorded dialog. That's $10 million to record.
There's no reason that the server list has to be halved. Or even one less. Aside from HDD space, it wouldn't make much difference.
All of the Live servers were running on one computer anyways. Then I believe the Auth server it's own machine, as well as Beta.
I think the reasons are pretty well known. I can't remember much off hand...and I don't want to misinform, so I'll leave off for now.
However if my memory isn't too dusty, CoH was still turning a profit at shutdown. Maybe not as large a profit as it once did, but in business profit IS profit last time I checked and killing a still golden goose isn't usually the best way to think.
CoH was making a modest profit as far as we know; Paragon Studios, however, were operating at a loss due to the 2 "secret" projects they were working on.
When you're merging with another company, and they look at the books and see a loss making unit, big questions are going to be asked. CoH was a victim of big business, nothing more.
I think the Atlas Park Revival folks, who are currently trying to recreate Atlas Park in UE4, will then move towards recreating (with some improvements here and there) all of City of Heroes.Just to chime in. Give Irish Girl credit...she's already gotten some stuff beyond Atlas Park started. Check it out:
Downix summed it up perfectly at one point with a simple:
Right. But when Ironwolf stated this:
it seems a slightly different path: what they are selling is the ability to license the IP to the new company, in partnership with NCSoft. I'm fully aware that Ironwolf may have mistyped, or misunderstood since he's not a direct insider, either, but I have no doubt he knows more than I do. So all I'm asking for is a bit of clarification to see if the way Ironwolf stated it is what's being discussed (NCSoft partnering with the new holding company which is buying rights to license the IP but with NCSoft retaining royalties and some control of the licensing) or if it's an outright sale as Downix's posts seem to suggest.
Just curious, since one excites me much more than the other, is all.
CopyPasta from the Revival FAQ thread:At first I was like, "Awww...that's not going to be trying to duplicate CoH as much as possible".
"Will your updates follow the plans laid down by Matt "Positron" Miller, and the other Paragon Studio's developers?
Personal, I have a great respect for Positron, and the rest of the dev team. However, It is unlikely that we'll stay exact to their plans. There wouldn't be any surprises!"
But logically speaking, to expect the entire fanbase to be back online on day one of relaunch is being extremely optimistic. Granted it would be nice to see but still.......
So let's say ALL the servers come back, and then there is an implosion in terms of players. Some leave again, some never came back, etc. Then what happens? Will the servers be consolidated as some games have done like SWTOR, and from what I hear Wildstar is about to do the same. Or will all the servers be up and running with some being dead zones like they were long before CoH was shut down?
There's no reason that the server list has to be halved. Or even one less. Aside from HDD space, it wouldn't make much difference.
All of the Live servers were running on one computer anyways. Then I believe the Auth server it's own machine, as well as Beta.
At first I was like, "Awww...that's not going to be trying to duplicate CoH as much as possible".
But then I thought about it a bit and decided that the game has to change, and there were many different people who had a hand in the direction over the years. There really wasn't "one vision".
And if anyone has earned the right to be a creative force, you have.
I should clarify in that post that I'm referring specifically to the Lore discussed in the AMAs/Loregasms.Again, I really think you're doing the CoH fanbase (and yourself) a huge disservice by just arbitrarily writing off Issue 24, simply on the grounds that you hadn't played it yet. You would have, if they'd just held off the closing announcement for even 1 month, it was that close to live release. And for that, you would dismiss it entirely as unworthy of any consideration?
Issue 0 - Issue 23 I hold true as canon.
Each server was it's own living community. Going from server to server every place was different. The decoration was the same, but the feel was different.Excellent idea. Let people know what kind of server it is if possible. People who played the low population servers had no interest in the Freedom type servers. Those (like me) who did like the high population servers would be equally unhappy on the less populated servers. I think we'll all end up where we are happy in the end...may as well make the journey easier.
I disagree with closing, or merging servers for a few reasons.
For one, it effectively kills a community of people that have grown to love said community.
Now, you do have to do possibly deal with dwindling server pops. So deal with it creatively, don't just force people somewhere they may not want to go.
Maybe pick a few servers with larger communities, or something else special about them. Make a GMOD letting people know that these are high pop servers, give players free transfers to said servers. -shrugs-
Some players LOVE those dead zones, btw.
Again, I really think you're doing the CoH fanbase (and yourself) a huge disservice by just arbitrarily writing off Issue 24, simply on the grounds that you hadn't played it yet. You would have, if they'd just held off the closing announcement for even 1 month, it was that close to live release. And for that, you would dismiss it entirely as unworthy of any consideration?
Again, I really think you're doing the CoH fanbase (and yourself) a huge disservice by just arbitrarily writing off Issue 24, simply on the grounds that you hadn't played it yet. You would have, if they'd just held off the closing announcement for even 1 month, it was that close to live release. And for that, you would dismiss it entirely as unworthy of any consideration?
Each server was it's own living community. Going from server to server every place was different. The decoration was the same, but the feel was different.
I disagree with closing, or merging servers for a few reasons.
For one, it effectively kills a community of people that have grown to love said community.
Now, you do have to do possibly deal with dwindling server pops. So deal with it creatively, don't just force people somewhere they may not want to go.
Maybe pick a few servers with larger communities, or something else special about them. Make a GMOD letting people know that these are high pop servers, give players free transfers to said servers. -shrugs-
Some players LOVE those dead zones, btw.
CoH was making a modest profit as far as we know; Paragon Studios, however, were operating at a loss due to the 2 "secret" projects they were working on.
When you're merging with another company, and they look at the books and see a loss making unit, big questions are going to be asked. CoH was a victim of big business, nothing more.
It's too bad they didn't choose to spin-off the loss-making units as a separate company, and only keep the healthy unit to be doing the merger, would have made them a lot more "attractive".
Personally, I would have just canned the 2 projects and downsized Paragon Studios to keep the profit making side running, but they chose what they chose. :/
All of the Live servers were running on one computer anyways.No. No no no no no. All the live servers were *virtualized*....but they were *definitely* run on a whole *stack* of computers, if not multiple banks. Oh, man. There's no way in hell you'd be able to play the game on one computer.
No. No no no no no. All the live servers were *virtualized*....but they were *definitely* run on a whole *stack* of computers, if not multiple banks. Oh, man. There's no way in hell you'd be able to play the game on one computer.
I have not said that, nor is that my intent. I simply stated that I had no intent one way or the other, and my reasoning behind that decision. I have every intent to take some time and dig through the links that were given me, and the i24 patch notes on Paragon Wiki.
It would be inappropriate for me to just dismiss something in that manner, and I have too much respect to dismiss Posi' and team's work without serious consideration.
Typically, if I'm talking about a decision that people might have strong feelings on like this. I lean, publicly, towards the least popular one so that players are prepared for the worst.
The I-23 zombie CoH needs some kind of staff to maintain the game and answer player service tickets. This staffing will take time.
If your database chokes at a few million small records, I'd suggest not using a terrible database. ;D
(True story btw. Had to let my account slip because I had an extra few expenses that month. Only got a few of my 50s because of it.)
You expect a one woman operation (no disrespect to Irish_Girl), to develop APR -and- run the legacy game, on her own? Riiiiiight...
No. No no no no no. All the live servers were *virtualized*....but they were *definitely* run on a whole *stack* of computers, if not multiple banks. Oh, man. There's no way in hell you'd be able to play the game on one computer.
A good for instance on why I24 should not be portioned in the Cannon is that there were still issues being worked out.
There were issues with it you can see just by logging into Icon Beta. Such as Dual Pistol damage for corrupters was higher than that of blasters. and much of the corrupter damage was... different than expected.
To be fair, that rate (https://www.voices.com/resources/rates) is the maximum rate based on ad hoc recording needs. Yeah, if you only need one minute of voice recording, that's what they'd charge. It also notes "...or $1500 for a 45-minute recording," or $33 per minute. Like most things, the more you need, the cheaper it is.
In the case of most video games, I strongly suspect that the work is contracted by the job, not by the minute, although based on some reasonable expectation of how long the actual dialogue is. Think of it as the difference between taking a taxi if you just need to travel a few miles down the road in a pinch, versus renting a car for the day if you have extended travel plans over a longer period of time.
The $10 million figure is ludicrous, and without some kind of detailed accounting, you'll never convince me that it would cost that much for even the most expensive voice actors to do voice-over for a triple-A game title. For that amount, to extend the analogy, you could just buy a car--or in this case, hire on a full-time cast of voice actors to do as much recording as you want, whenever you want. Seriously, an average voice actor makes around $50k per year, and even if you double that to account for insurance, taxes, etc., you'd be able to maintain a staff of 100 full-time voice actors.
"Oh, but that's not including studio time!" Okay, an average rate for professional studio time is around $200 or $300 per hour, call it an even $250, and that includes the sound engineer. That would cost you around $500k per year, or the salaries of 5 of your full-time voice actors (remember, their total compensation plus taxes was doubled for this example), so you'd only be able to maintain a staff of 95 full-time voice actors, including studio time and a sound engineer, for $10 million.
In reality, it wouldn't cost nearly that much. For one thing, if you contract voice actors from a company like Interactive Voices, they supply all of the equipment and expertise to do the recording. You just need to supply the script and do any post-production necessary, which probably won't be much once they give you the finished product. Second of all, like I said above, $100 is a maximum rate based on ad hoc recording needs; the cost of a full job such as what would be required for a game would be much, MUCH less, and likely could be negotiated as a whole project instead of a per-hour or certainly a per-minute deal.
Third of all, this is assuming that you want to go the route of using a company such as Interactive Voices. One of the advantages of a project such as City of Titans is that we have a community to draw upon here that could do the work. Not that they shouldn't be compensated, but I daresay that most people in this community would probably be willing to do the work for much, much less than even the cheapest rate quoted by a professional voice services company.
In short, if you don't like voice-over, there's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't like voice-over." Some folks will disagree, but you know, thems the breaks, as a developer you have to get used to that. But holy crap, man, don't try to justify such a position by quoting some outrageously exaggerated cost for having it. Some of the times when I was most irritated at Paragon Studios was when I felt like they just didn't want to do something and tried to handwave it off and shut people down by saying it was "too expensive" or had vague "legal issues". I'd like to break that culture. And with a topic such a voice-over, which could easily be turned off by a click of an option by someone who doesn't like it, I don't see what the downside would be; it should at least be a fair topic of discussion without resorting to, "It would cost $10 million..."
Also, 100k hours? Geez, man, even that's split across seven languages, that's 10 days straight of dialogue without stopping. An average audio book is 15 hours long; a game with 10 days straight of dialogue would be around 16 read novels long. :o I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that number either, even if that's supposed to account for retakes and whatnot.
It's always by the hour. I've never heard of a VO actor accepting pay "by the job" although spokesperson gigs could pay a salary. This is also not something where you can just throw together a bunch of decent amateur actors and expect it to pan out. Even strong actors aren't necessarily decent VO actors. 50K? Yeah, maybe if we're talking primarily cheesy local ad talent. Scroll a little bit further down in the article you probably pulled that from to get a better idea. My wife does VO for corporate training. The work isn't always there but when it is, it's 100s an hour. She's also worked for Nintendo. We recently met a guy who was the voice of Chevy for a few years. Millions. This is not a cost that is easy to estimate. There are unions. There are varying talent levels. And yeah, those takes can often go well past a dozen. You can't compare line reads to reading a book. The successors could never afford SWTOR-level VO. They might be able to afford some cinematic VO here and there. But IMO, it is a very smart policy to not make it a priority until they've figured out how they're going to do it without being awful. Because nothing stinks like crummy to mediocre VO.
I haven't spoken to either teams, So this is pure speculation.
There's also the concern that agreeing to something like that forfeits a certain level of control. You can't simply have the Rikti come in and blow up the planet, it would conflict with what's going on in the I.P. in other places.
Basically, the only way to have no real concerns is to make your story take place in an Alternate time-line/universe/dimension that has very little story ties to CoH. At that point, why even bother calling it a CoH successor?
I never found out definitively if the live servers were actually virtualized, but I have strong reasons to believe they were not.
I never found out definitively if the live servers were actually virtualized, but I have strong reasons to believe they were not. That option was not practical when the game launched, and what I know of the server architecture is that it would not have benefited significantly from server consolidation. It could have been virtualized by default eventually just as a server standardization practice, but its also possible they were kept in legacy configurations on bare metal.
I have not said that, nor is that my intent. I simply stated that I had no intent one way or the other, and my reasoning behind that decision. I have every intent to take some time and dig through the links that were given me, and the i24 patch notes on Paragon Wiki.
It would be inappropriate for me to just dismiss something in that manner, and I have too much respect to dismiss Posi' and team's work without serious consideration.
Typically, if I'm talking about a decision that people might have strong feelings on like this. I lean, publicly, towards the least popular one so that players are prepared for the worst.
To be fair, that rate (https://www.voices.com/resources/rates) is the maximum rate based on ad hoc recording needs. Yeah, if you only need one minute of voice recording, that's what they'd charge. It also notes "...or $1500 for a 45-minute recording," or $33 per minute. Like most things, the more you need, the cheaper it is.I am going by the numbers given to me only. I have no reason to doubt the word of my contacts in Bioware, Cryptic or Trion, and they all gave similar numbers.
In the case of most video games, I strongly suspect that the work is contracted by the job, not by the minute, although based on some reasonable expectation of how long the actual dialogue is. Think of it as the difference between taking a taxi if you just need to travel a few miles down the road in a pinch, versus renting a car for the day if you have extended travel plans over a longer period of time.
The $10 million figure is ludicrous, and without some kind of detailed accounting, you'll never convince me that it would cost that much for even the most expensive voice actors to do voice-over for a triple-A game title. For that amount, to extend the analogy, you could just buy a car--or in this case, hire on a full-time cast of voice actors to do as much recording as you want, whenever you want. Seriously, an average voice actor makes around $50k per year, and even if you double that to account for insurance, taxes, etc., you'd be able to maintain a staff of 100 full-time voice actors.
"Oh, but that's not including studio time!" Okay, an average rate for professional studio time is around $200 or $300 per hour, call it an even $250, and that includes the sound engineer. That would cost you around $500k per year, or the salaries of 5 of your full-time voice actors (remember, their total compensation plus taxes was doubled for this example), so you'd only be able to maintain a staff of 95 full-time voice actors, including studio time and a sound engineer, for $10 million.
In reality, it wouldn't cost nearly that much. For one thing, if you contract voice actors from a company like Interactive Voices, they supply all of the equipment and expertise to do the recording. You just need to supply the script and do any post-production necessary, which probably won't be much once they give you the finished product. Second of all, like I said above, $100 is a maximum rate based on ad hoc recording needs; the cost of a full job such as what would be required for a game would be much, MUCH less, and likely could be negotiated as a whole project instead of a per-hour or certainly a per-minute deal.
Third of all, this is assuming that you want to go the route of using a company such as Interactive Voices. One of the advantages of a project such as City of Titans is that we have a community to draw upon here that could do the work. Not that they shouldn't be compensated, but I daresay that most people in this community would probably be willing to do the work for much, much less than even the cheapest rate quoted by a professional voice services company.
In short, if you don't like voice-over, there's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't like voice-over." Some folks will disagree, but you know, thems the breaks, as a developer you have to get used to that. But holy crap, man, don't try to justify such a position by quoting some outrageously exaggerated cost for having it. Some of the times when I was most irritated at Paragon Studios was when I felt like they just didn't want to do something and tried to handwave it off and shut people down by saying it was "too expensive" or had vague "legal issues". I'd like to break that culture. And with a topic such a voice-over, which could easily be turned off by a click of an option by someone who doesn't like it, I don't see what the downside would be; it should at least be a fair topic of discussion without resorting to, "It would cost $10 million..."
Also, 100k hours? Geez, man, even that's split across seven languages, that's 10 days straight of dialogue without stopping. An average audio book is 15 hours long; a game with 10 days straight of dialogue would be around 16 read novels long. :o I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that number either, even if that's supposed to account for retakes and whatnot.
I want to see the game again. When I installed Windows 7, I lost my City installation, so Icon is no longer an option as-is. :( Here's hoping everything works out reasonably soon and completely well.
So, a question for @Downix - If this, ah, "holding company" comes into being, whose primary purpose is to act as a licensor of the CoX IP and possibly a "publisher" of the I-23 server, would this company be limited in the types of licenses it could grant? That is, would this IP company be able to license a novel, or a CCG, or an action figure, or would it be limited strictly to licensing MMORPG versions of CoX?Theoretically no, though there may be outstanding agreements that NCSoft could require to still be honored as part of the ownership transfer. For example, let's say in 2009, McFarlane acquired five year exclusive personalities (Iconics, etc ) license. Frequently these kind of agreements are ended when a rights transfer - but not always. NC Soft could require it be honoured as part of the transfer. THAT IS JUST AN EXAMPLE!
In short, we are not "almost there," unless one has a very...extended definition of the word "almost."
"It is a perfect deal with no risk - because they can just close the game again if needed." Uh, this is far from perfect, in fact it is terrible. So it can be "Goodbye CoX once again" at any time on the whim of NCSoft once again? Yeesh.
Technically, this is irrelevant. But I'll mention it anyways.
I never got to try i24. My account was Premium when the shutdown notice came, and before that I had a policy of avoiding test until Issues went live. Preferred to experience the new content Live.
On to the more relevant part!
For starters, when it comes to some thing, Story especially... I'd prefer not to yay/nay anything just yet. My maybe wasn't a coy way of saying no, I've just not made a decision one way or the other.
I don't know the specifics of i24, I've neglected to go actually dig into the details quite yet. Personally, I consider it cannonical grey area.
It was content made by Paragon Studios, led by Positron. So that gives it serious weight.
However...it was not Live, finished content... So that means I can argue it's not canon.
My intention is to include all current content from City of Heroes, then add new content to it...New stories and such. Then perhaps later on look into updating older content.
I don't think I can give more detail on story and such at this time.
Isn't that easy enough? Just make a character with the name you want.
I hope that at least some, if not most or all, of I24 and of the stuff planned mentioned in the Loregasms eventually makes it's way into the game. But it's understandable if it doesn't. Those writers are no longer participating in your project.
A good for instance on why I24 should not be portioned in the Cannon is that there were still issues being worked out.
There were issues with it you can see just by logging into Icon Beta. Such as Dual Pistol damage for corrupters was higher than that of blasters. and much of the corrupter damage was... different than expected.
Additionally, who are you? I'm curious - your sig indicates you're with MWM, and your posts indicate you may have knowledge of the negotiations, but you've never been officially introduced in these threads.I figured everyone knew who David was. He's my right-hand man for the technical department in MWM. Also means he knows everything I know, to serve as bus insurance (as in if I get run over by a bus...). You cannot keep a secret from someone in IT.
I'm going to bow out of this line of discussion after this as to not risk poking bears, but a little bird hinted that mapservers were not virtualized (after all, what would be the point since all shards dynamically balance maps across them), but dbservers were along with some of the global stuff. Which makes sense as you need a dbserver per shard, so virtualizing allows them to pool resources and not need as many physical machines for them.It could also explain certain odd behaviors I could attribute to dbservers getting variable performance on an unoptimized consolidated server. But yeah, this is probably one of those talks about the birds and the bears.
2008R2. Why they didn't just call it SQL2010 is beyond me to this day, at least the client components are sane and just call it 10.50.
Personally, I think the original CoH base system is one thing you should NOT try to replicate. It was ugly as sin and made it a right chore to get anything decent looking.
You can do better, loads better. :p Personally.. I kinda like how they do it in DCUO. Just a collection of big empty rooms you can decorate how you like. Just don't gate the furnishings behind drops and let the users buy additional rooms to add on to it (including multiple levels).
This is much along the lines CoT is planning.
Yeah, I've found the "we're almost there" 'signature' to be annoying, because it is not true at all, and may give false hope to people that something will actually happen soon.
Speaking personally, my preferences (which should, of course, be given accommodation because I am the Most Important Person in the World) would be to at least see the gameplay changes incorporated into APR--the things everyone was looking forward to like the Blaster changes, the new powersets (already had ideas for a Dual Pistols/Martial Combat and a Spines/Bio-Armor character) and the Rogue/Vigilante-specific storyarcs (as I thought it added a lot to the flavor of the alignment system if those alignments went down different story paths). I care substantially less about the specific story content.
And I don't so much mind not being able to import my Sentinel files, but I'd be a trifle upset if the APR migration didn't allow you to import active characters from the re-released game. Starting over once is frustrating, starting over twice is doubly frustrating. :)
I would suggest something similar to STO - global handles. There's a certain amount of uniqueness needed in a superhero game, to be sure, but I think it's better to make more people happy.I just pictured a SG where every character has the same name. That would crack me up...the creative potential of this community would take that and run with it, I'm betting.
I just pictured a SG where every character has the same name. That would crack me up...the creative potential of this community would take that and run with it, I'm betting.
I just pictured a SG where every character has the same name. That would crack me up...the creative potential of this community would take that and run with it, I'm betting.On Liberty my sister ran an SG "The Power Of One"
It's entirely possible, and likely that the i24 gameplay changes will make it in. I haven't had a chance to go do my homework on i24 quite yet, but I figure the changes being made were for the best...especially since everyone seems so keen on getting them!
As for character importing... I literally cannot say yay or nay at this time. It's not a matter of me choosing one way or the other. Given the choice, I'd choose being able to import people's characters! However, there are technical hurdles that I have little experience in. (Databases and the like: Not my area of expertise. Never had to work with them really.
Also, whoever is running Legacy has to be willing to play ball, which since nobody's been given that task yet...I can't just PM them and be like "Sup. So, how about stuff? What about things?"
I just pictured a SG where every character has the same name. That would crack me up...the creative potential of this community would take that and run with it, I'm betting.
I am going by the numbers given to me only. I have no reason to doubt the word of my contacts in Bioware, Cryptic or Trion, and they all gave similar numbers.
I just pictured a SG where every character has the same name. That would crack me up...the creative potential of this community would take that and run with it, I'm betting.
Hi! I'm Darryl. and this is my brother Darryl.
I just pictured a SG where every character has the same name. That would crack me up...the creative potential of this community would take that and run with it, I'm betting.
Actually there was a PvP Match where the entire 8 man team changed their names to have different variations of IIIIIIIIII. That was interesting to see people call out targets.Glorious chaos, I'm sure. :)
On Liberty my sister ran an SG "The Power Of One"
Every member had a variation of "One" or "1" in their name.
Was always fun running down the street to see "Noone saved us!" "Someone is awesome" and "Anyone will save me!"
Glorious chaos, I'm sure. :)
On a similar note, a friend of mine with an Illusion Controller spent some time working up a cleverly-crafted costume that looked like the phantoms in Phantom Army. He would throw them out and then "hide in the crowd," so to speak. Rather surprised me the first time I saw it - I said "Where'd you get a 4th phantom? And where are you?"
Like I said, I meant no disrespect to you, and didn't even start this thread, but do feel that all of us should be able to voice our opinions/challenge ideas and decisions, etc. without feeling like we suddenly get shunned or treated as if we're a nuisance. Sadly, that's exactly how I felt like I was treated in the end by some people in the discussion, when all I, Tony V, and others are trying to do is state our opinions and our knowledge.I understand where you are coming from. From studio costs, to localization, to the need to redesign the entire character rig yet again, to even the sheer volume of content we are discussing here, it is beyond what is practicable for MWM to consider at this point. (I cannot speak for APR) I used worst-case scenario costs, which is how I baseline most budgeting work. That is one of the reasons why MWM is under budget at this point. Voice acting's worst-case scenario however is far greater a spread.
I just pictured a SG where every character has the same name. That would crack me up...the creative potential of this community would take that and run with it, I'm betting.
I understand where you are coming from. From studio costs, to localization, to the need to redesign the entire character rig yet again, to even the sheer volume of content we are discussing here, it is beyond what is practicable for MWM to consider at this point. (I cannot speak for APR) I used worst-case scenario costs, which is how I baseline most budgeting work. That is one of the reasons why MWM is under budget at this point. Voice acting's worst-case scenario however is far greater a spread.
Now, what has been ignored in all of these discussions is that both CoT and APR are running on the Unreal Engine. It is easy to conceive of someone adding a semi-official "Voice Actor" module, using fan made vocal talent, which could be used in either game.
In other words, if you want voice acting, you guys have the power to make it happen.
Thanks for the response.Some limited modding is within scope. Won't be able to make walls go transparent or highlight other PC's on a PvP map, but things like UI mods (which a voice acting module would be, if you think on it) are at least on the table for discussion.
This last comment makes me excited. One of the best aspects I've found in The Secret World is the ability built in to the game to add mods by players that tweak the game itself in valuable ways.
Will CoT be trying to allow the same sort of modding? It is AWESOME to be able to make your UI, etc. customizable. The ability to create autosorting of loot, autoselling at vendors, etc. is such great QoL material, and outsourcing it to players is brilliant. I'd be STOKED if I found out that CoT, at least, was planning on that being at least a possibility.
;D
(I cannot speak for APR) I used worst-case scenario costs, which is how I baseline most budgeting work.Worst case scenario is the best way to budget. It's how I prefer to do everything.
Now, what has been ignored in all of these discussions is that both CoT and APR are running on the Unreal Engine. It is easy to conceive of someone adding a semi-official "Voice Actor" module, using fan made vocal talent, which could be used in either game.
In other words, if you want voice acting, you guys have the power to make it happen.
Thanks for the response.
This last comment makes me excited. One of the best aspects I've found in The Secret World is the ability built in to the game to add mods by players that tweak the user experience in valuable ways.
Will CoT be trying to allow the same sort of modding? It is AWESOME to be able to make your UI, etc. customizable. The ability to create autosorting of loot, autoselling at vendors, etc. is such great QoL material, and outsourcing it to players is brilliant. I'd be STOKED if I found out that CoT, at least, was planning on that being at least a possibility.
Actually there was a PvP Match where the entire 8 man team changed their names to have different variations of IIIIIIIIII. That was interesting to see people call out targets.
Hrm. Nate has a good point, one I hadn't even thought of. What basically made Unreal what it is today was it's modability.
Mods for APR...I'm going to have to give the subject a long, in depth think. There are obviously things you don't want players to be able to do in an MMO, and other restrictions based on the nature of the game... But some things that would be awesome.
Hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Expect no definitive answer on this subject for awhile.
While I wouldn't mind seeing mods that allow changes to the look and feel of the UI, what I don't want to see are any DPS meters or other tools that could be used to denigrate or harass other players. I had enough of that crap in WoW.
We have 3 Inaris in my SG in CO....only one is a white fox, go fig.
Yeah I wouldn't want people demanding very specific requirements for team setups or leagues. I was actually turned off enough as it was with the incarnate trials when the occasional jerk-head demanded everyone be +3 for just about any incarnate trial. Let alone dps meters that give such jerk heads a reason to kick players based on not being specialized enough in damage. I could only see it if something came; you'd only see fire blasters being taken, corruptors and defenders would be pidgin holed by these kinds of jerks into only buffing/debuffing, no, change that, probably only being kins with only speed boost and FS and same jerks demanding only healing from them due to some healing per second bar, I could go on.
I haven't spoken to either teams, So this is pure speculation.
There's also the concern that agreeing to something like that forfeits a certain level of control. You can't simply have the Rikti come in and blow up the planet, it would conflict with what's going on in the I.P. in other places.
Basically, the only way to have no real concerns is to make your story take place in an Alternate time-line/universe/dimension that has very little story ties to CoH. At that point, why even bother calling it a CoH successor?
Yeah I wouldn't want people demanding very specific requirements for team setups or leagues. I was actually turned off enough as it was with the incarnate trials when the occasional jerk-head demanded everyone be +3 for just about any incarnate trial. Let alone dps meters that give such jerk heads a reason to kick players based on not being specialized enough in damage. I could only see it if something came; you'd only see fire blasters being taken, corruptors and defenders would be pidgin holed by these kinds of jerks into only buffing/debuffing, no, change that, probably only being kins with only speed boost and FS and same jerks demanding only healing from them due to some healing per second bar, I could go on.Yikes. Were you, perchance, on Freedom server?
Some limited modding is within scope. Won't be able to make walls go transparent or highlight other PC's on a PvP map, but things like UI mods (which a voice acting module would be, if you think on it) are at least on the table for discussion.
I hate to bow back into this discussion, but again, that seems a bit odd. After all, what do you think your contacts at Bioware, Cryptic, or Trion would have told you about the costs of implementing an entire MMO? Within the budget you're currently working? Of course not, since they're working with triple A titles and companies that likely use greatly inflated costs.
I'm fine if you don't decide to include Voice work. Honestly. I think it's a strike against your game that will hurt you, if only slightly, and I GREATLY want your game to succeed, but if you all decide its fine, cool.
But I'm a little surprised at a)the numbers you giving not matching what I know from the industry first hand, and what others in here know as well, and even what the SAG union rates are, and b)that your mindset for this seems to be so opposed to the mindset of the entire rest of MWMs entire concept.
*shrug*
Like I said, I meant no disrespect to you, and didn't even start this thread, but do feel that all of us should be able to voice our opinions/challenge ideas and decisions, etc. without feeling like we suddenly get shunned or treated as if we're a nuisance. Sadly, that's exactly how I felt like I was treated in the end by some people in the discussion, when all I, Tony V, and others are trying to do is state our opinions and our knowledge.
Yeah I wouldn't want people demanding very specific requirements for team setups or leagues. I was actually turned off enough as it was with the incarnate trials when the occasional jerk-head demanded everyone be +3 for just about any incarnate trial. Let alone dps meters that give such jerk heads a reason to kick players based on not being specialized enough in damage. I could only see it if something came; you'd only see fire blasters being taken, corruptors and defenders would be pidgin holed by these kinds of jerks into only buffing/debuffing, no, change that, probably only being kins with only speed boost and FS and same jerks demanding only healing from them due to some healing per second bar, I could go on.
I think the main thing about this is not so much the ability to see actual DPS, etc. it's a design decision by the devs that make certain scenarios almost require very specific team make ups. Thankfully, City of Heroes was so well balanced (and from what Arcana and others shared in this thread, accidentally so) that just about any team could tackle just about any scenario if they just worked together.
In short, even if we had meters above our heads broadcasting our stats directly to other players all the time, I don't see teams getting that picky unless there were some serious changes to the general gameplay and mission design.
When the occasional jerk-head demanded everyone be +3 for just about any incarnate trial
I think the main thing about this is not so much the ability to see actual DPS, etc. it's a design decision by the devs that make certain scenarios almost require very specific team make ups. Thankfully, City of Heroes was so well balanced (and from what Arcana and others shared in this thread, accidentally so) that just about any team could tackle just about any scenario if they just worked together.
In short, even if we had meters above our heads broadcasting our stats directly to other players all the time, I don't see teams getting that picky unless there were some serious changes to the general gameplay and mission design.
While I wouldn't mind seeing mods that allow changes to the look and feel of the UI, what I don't want to see are any DPS meters or other tools that could be used to denigrate or harass other players. I had enough of that crap in WoW.
On Liberty my sister ran an SG "The Power Of One"
Every member had a variation of "One" or "1" in their name.
Was always fun running down the street to see "Noone saved us!" "Someone is awesome" and "Anyone will save me!"
Server instances definitely ran on multiple hosting servers, but that doesn't mean it would be impossible to run on a single server. In fact, if you think the servers were virtualized then its definitely possible to migrate a set of virtual servers to a single computer and play it. The single computer just has to be fast enough to handle the load you want to host, which for a small enough number of players would not be difficult.
I would like too see support for Linux user's in 1.5 and or 2.0. I know this can not happen in the i.23 ver. thanks to all that are making this a possible.
I would like too see support for Linux user's in 1.5 and or 2.0. I know this can not happen in the i.23 ver. thanks to all that are making this a possible.
Completed stories is exactly one of the things that is missing.
Revival will probably end up running on just about anything that Unreal Engine 4 support. Which is pretty much anything short of dishwashers, microwaves, and commadore 64s.Never dis the Commodore.....
and I'm pretty sure support for Samsung Washing Machines is coming in winter.
So try the Irish_Girl route. Just start doing stuff, then some more stuff, and then a crap-ton more stuff and see what comes of it when you start showing it to people. One inspired and very good character VO actor could do an awful lot.
EDIT: Interesting. Just looked over the Mr. G arc on the Paragonwiki. Looks like it is incomplete- or perhaps the person or persons running it did not have all the villain badges. There was a notable difference in the Crimson Revenant part on that page and what happened when I ran it.
A question for Irish_Girl,
If the purchase is successful, will you be receiving the IP rights for Issue 24? I know that
running Issue 24 is out of the question, but it would be nice to able to use the new Issue 24
skeletal motion files and their related power sets in follow up projects.
Keep up the great work. ;D
Well, badges then. They took literally YEARS to earn. Not fond of the idea of grinding them out again... :gonk:Oh, surely you look forward to doing a Dr. Quaterfield TF again! A whole 12 hours of unbridled, pure joy! :)
IF Sentinel was used, Which I'm not supporting. The best bet, I believe, would be to restore character name, inf, level, Bio, and powers/slots. No badges, no costumes.
Oh, surely you look forward to doing a Dr. Quaterfield TF again! A whole 12 hours of unbridled, pure joy! :)
I *LOVED* Dr. QTF. SO MUCH.2 and a half hours?! How the hell did you pull that off?! It really did take my SG 12 hours to complete that monster. We finally had to break for sleep and log back in the next day to finish it. We still tell horror stories about that one...
Managed to get one done in like 2 and a half hours once. I think magic was involved.
I understand "no badges" at least in theory - because there are those who take the attitude "if I can't have what that person earned, then he shouldn't have it either." I completely fail to agree with it, but I understand it as a concept.
But why not costumes?
I *LOVED* Dr. QTF. SO MUCH.
Managed to get one done in like 2 and a half hours once. I think magic was involved.
2 and a half hours?! How the hell did you pull that off?! It really did take my SG 12 hours to complete that monster. We finally had to break for sleep and log back in the next day to finish it. We still tell horror stories about that one...Mainly... a team of people that worked really well together. We were all 50, with decked out characters. My scrapper alone could solo just about AV in the game, and the rest of the team was about equal in strength to myself. We just decided to give it our all. I expected we'd do it in like...8 hours, not 2 and a half...
Wonder if we were on one together. I went through a bit where I would run one at least once a month. Ahhh good times.I don't know, I played on Victory. I would have been the angry red head with a giant sword named Irish Girl.
Yeah, I've found the "we're almost there" 'signature' to be annoying, because it is not true at all, and may give false hope to people that something will actually happen soon.
Side note: why type it in to every post, and not just add it as a real sig?
I just pictured a SG where every character has the same name. That would crack me up...the creative potential of this community would take that and run with it, I'm betting.
2 and a half hours?! How the hell did you pull that off?! It really did take my SG 12 hours to complete that monster. We finally had to break for sleep and log back in the next day to finish it. We still tell horror stories about that one...
Team Transporter.Sigh...I wish. We did it before that came out.
Pay2Win at its finest.
I remember a couple of smallish groups on Guardian who took advantage of the font that character names
were shown in to use lower L's, upper I's, and 1's to make multiple toons with the same displayed "name"
Always a hoot to see them running together, same names, same costumes, etc.
Parallel Illusion, I do believe. And I also think that the | character could be used as well.
Green Lantern called. He wants his idea back! You stole it! :P
As someone with horrid ping times, the Team Transporter made it so much more tolerable for me on task forces, as I could almost keep up with other people.
Pay2Win or not, I did not regret that purchase.
My daughter, my parents and I all made identical quadruplet gravity controllers that way: Emerald Image they were called. It was a fun idea, and when people would circle us, freaking out, only one of us would ever speak and say,
"I think you've had one too many drinks at Pocket D!" ;D But after a while, three of them got deleted (I kept mine though, and leveled her on various teams to 36 I think). It was just too bloody confusing.
"Did you just throw down that immob or did I?" Lol. It's more disorienting than you think when all four have the same powers and are fighting the same groups of mobs.
As someone with horrid ping times, the Team Transporter made it so much more tolerable for me on task forces, as I could almost keep up with other people.And I contest that things like the Team Transporter are actually "Pay to Win." My litmus test was "Can what this power does be done without it, even if doing it without the power is slower and/or less efficient?" And the Team Transporter passes this test. It's completely possible to run/fly to missions without it, it's just faster to use the Team Transporter to do the same thing.
Pay2Win or not, I did not regret that purchase.
I was documenting those arcs on a copy of my main hero turned villain. While I had all of the villain-side badges, I had not acquired all of the villain-side souvenirs. So it's possible there could have been a discrepancy based on that.
I do have a question for you, though, Irish_Girl: Are you having to build the power mechanics from scratch, or is there a system for that built into the engine? (I probably could watch a few hours of tutorial videos, but I'm not there, yet.)
Senticon: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=9637.0
It requires a lot of fiddly stuff I don't/don't want to understand.
And I contest that things like the Team Transporter are actually "Pay to Win." My litmus test was "Can what this power does be done without it, even if doing it without the power is slower and/or less efficient?" And the Team Transporter passes this test. It's completely possible to run/fly to missions without it, it's just faster to use the Team Transporter to do the same thing.
Hi! I'm Darryl. and this is my brother Darryl.
On Liberty my sister ran an SG "The Power Of One"I knew it! Give this community an opportunity and just stand back and watch them go to work! :D
Every member had a variation of "One" or "1" in their name.
Was always fun running down the street to see "Noone saved us!" "Someone is awesome" and "Anyone will save me!"
Green Lantern called. He wants his idea back! You stole it! :PAwww!
And I contest that things like the Team Transporter are actually "Pay to Win." My litmus test was "Can what this power does be done without it, even if doing it without the power is slower and/or less efficient?" And the Team Transporter passes this test. It's completely possible to run/fly to missions without it, it's just faster to use the Team Transporter to do the same thing.My litmus test for pay to win mostly used "Does it make it faster and/or easier to defeat enemies and/or complete missions than what can be readily acquired in game?" For me at least i did not count travel time to missions as part of completion speed, so Team Transporter was not p2w in my opinion. Some of the items in the packs pretty much failed the test despite how much i personally enjoyed them.
I don't think there is any question that a team on which everyone dropped the $10 to get the team transporter can complete the Dr. Q TF significantly faster than a team without it.Well it was faster, but i'm not sure it was much faster compared to the difference between a team of fully IOd characters used by experienced players who knew the game and maps well and a minimum level team new to the Shadow shard. Even before Team Transporter was available we could get some really fast Dr. Q runs by using things like Ouro Portals, knowledge of the Shadow Shard's mechanics and map connections to minimize travel between missions, teleport relays, people leaving the mission early to set up teleport relays, etcetera.
That's less time spent waiting around for people to arrive, much faster merit-to-time ratio, much better average XP/inf/drops per minute, and in general having more fun and being able to do other fun things sooner.
That satisfies just about every definition of "winning" I can think of in COH. It's not intended as a moral judgment, but given its 15 minute recharge compared to the 2 hour recharge of personal mission teleport power, I think a solid case can be made that the transporter was firmly in the "pay to win" category.
(and believe me, I used the hell out of that team transporter)
Glorious chaos, I'm sure. :)Nice...I did the same thing. One of the costumes of my avatar actually.
On a similar note, a friend of mine with an Illusion Controller spent some time working up a cleverly-crafted costume that looked like the phantoms in Phantom Army. He would throw them out and then "hide in the crowd," so to speak. Rather surprised me the first time I saw it - I said "Where'd you get a 4th phantom? And where are you?"
I knew it! Give this community an opportunity and just stand back and watch them go to work! :D
I don't know anything about actually making a game, so that's why I'm wondering about it. Wouldn't it be easier to just build all the content in with new tech from the start? Older missions were created before things like phasing and choices within missions were offered, and have a certain mindset underlying their structure (go here, kill X amount, kill X boss, for example). Plus, contacts that change could actually be built in somehow - if you read the Lore AMAs, they talk about why it was going to be hard for Scirocco to switch sides - all the stuff he was involved in, the missions, everything would have to be changed. Why not build some sort of mission / contact designing thing that allows for more fluid changes to the game from the get go?
I have to say that some of what motivates this is my editing of the Wiki. Because of the way the Wiki formatting is set up, it can't deal all that easily with things like the Statesman and Psyche's deaths in their individual articles. And the pseudo-static nature of MMOs has some similar type of issues. So I think building from the start for a dynamic world, and missions that use cool options, is better than just porting over old school "kill all" style missions.
I would suggest something similar to STO - global handles. There's a certain amount of uniqueness needed in a superhero game, to be sure, but I think it's better to make more people happy.
As far as the Lore AMA stuff, I think it would be worth really getting a more in-depth description of the nature of powers / reality. Even if the storyline (Coming Storm, Battalion, etc.) doesn't happen, there's already TONS of stuff in game built on these sort of grand ideas about the nature of the universe.
Most of the stuff built on it is Incarnate stuff, which I never liked, but it's still there.
That's game mechanics, which is going to be different anyways, probably. I think that the storyline stuff is good to include - the Praetorian arcs do need some resolution. Mechanics, power sets, things like that: take them if they're good, but leave 'em if not. Power sets should be added as much as possible - even if they weren't finished, we can see the design intent behind them, and build from there.
I love that this is called the "Irish Girl route". Which is totally accurate lol.
One of my biggest concerns with VO is finding voices that fit Signature Characters... Who sounds good as Statesman? Does Sister Psyche sound cheesy?
One good one could go a long way to changing my mind, if people are that interested.
I would bet serious money that somewhere out there, there is a person with saved text from all of the story arcs.
We're almost there! ;DYou're more optimistic than I am, but I'm ok with your optimism because optimism is what drives accomplishment. The realists and pessimists will not be "foolish" enough to try things which are a "long shot". The optimists invent the light bulb and fly to the moon. So there is definitely a place for them.
I have a contact in hollywood who says he can get Steven Wright to do all the voice overs for the APR project. He's a big COH fan and already said he's willing to do it.
That has to be true, I cannot imagine that the lore bible simply does not exist anymore.Only a minimum of two months to go compared to the billions of years that CoH didn't exist. Even if CoH comes back in ten years it'll be less than an eye blink compared to the lifespan of the universe!
We're almost there! ;D
Are you saying "Theoretically no" to the "Would it be limited?" question, or the "would it be able to license CCG, novel, etc.?" question? If it's the former, great! I am super excited to see things like CCG expansion, MOBA, comics / novels, etc. If you're saying "no" to the latter question, why would that be the case?
Additionally, who are you? I'm curious - your sig indicates you're with MWM, and your posts indicate you may have knowledge of the negotiations, but you've never been officially introduced in these threads.
I had a stalker called "justablaster". I would yell "Dont mind me, Im just a blaster"It's stuff like that which really makes me want to log in again. :D
I'm trying to imagine who would be the best character for Steven Wright's voice- for some reason, Arbiter Sands comes to mind.
I just pictured a SG where every character has the same name. That would crack me up...the creative potential of this community would take that and run with it, I'm betting.
This is prolly going to sound really bad...but...who is Steven Wright?A guy with Larry's hairstyle from the 3 Stooges with a monotone voice. Funny stand-up comedian. Played "the guy on the couch" in Half Baked.
I would like too see support for Linux user's in 1.5 and or 2.0. I know this can not happen in the i.23 ver. thanks to all that are making this a possible.
This is prolly going to sound really bad...but...who is Steven Wright?
UE4 supports this and at least so far, it hasn't been a problem so long as you are running a setup that is very similar to a SteamOS box. I keep an image of it up and periodically pull the current build over there to make sure it's still working. Doesn't do so good on my Fedora rig, on the other hand. Haven't spent much time sorting out why as of yet - it's sort of a bonus target platform rather than a priority right now.
I'm inclined to think, however, anyone who's adamant about their main box being Linux will have minimal trouble coping with a dualboot Steam setup so long as they don't have a philsophical opposition to Steam.
Actually, Irish Girl, Downix... Nate made reference to APR getting an instance of the CoT code to build CoH1.5 -- could you folks elaborate on what you're thinking about that?
As I understood it, CoT was not going to be a direct copy of the power sets, AT's and gameplay of CoH, so what would be involved in modding the CoT game to be CoH 1.5 -- how close are you thinking you could come considering the differences? And would that actually be less work than creating the entire game mechanic from scratch?
Nice...I did the same thing. One of the costumes of my avatar actually.
*Gasp!* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5ErMolRE8M
I was unaware that there were adults who did not know Steven Wright :o . . .
We're almost there! ;D
Actually, Irish Girl, Downix... Nate made reference to APR getting an instance of the CoT code to build CoH1.5 -- could you folks elaborate on what you're thinking about that?MWM was planning on offering stripped down framework versions of various systems on the Unreal marketplace anyways, to cover a variety of system we need to build which other games may be able to use, like the costume building blueprints. A way to shortcut a lot of development time.
There will likely have to be some adjustments with probabilities, but that should be the majority of the conversion. We planned ahead.
The MWM folks are crazy planny. I'm pretty sure they'd already planned that APR would use their codebase before I knew who/what a "Downix" even is.
I can neither confirm nor deny that was a consideration....<cough>
Heh. You guys are almost as crazy as I am.
EDIT: Holy Page 100, Batman!
*Gasp!* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5ErMolRE8M
I was unaware that there were adults who did not know Steven Wright :o . . .
We're almost there! ;D
In my dream "World of Heroes" we would be able to take our toons between alternate dimensions (CoH 1.5 <--> CoT). Is MWM "Planny" enough to make that a real possibility? 8)
We're almost there! ;D
I've never heard of him either, nor do I recognise him.
Cop pulled me over for speeding and asked, "Don't you know the speed limit is 55 miles per hour?" And I said, "I know, but I wasn't going to be out that long.":)
Well, unless you want to arrive powerless and probably naked
UE4 supports this and at least so far, it hasn't been a problem so long as you are running a setup that is very similar to a SteamOS box. I keep an image of it up and periodically pull the current build over there to make sure it's still working. Doesn't do so good on my Fedora rig, on the other hand. Haven't spent much time sorting out why as of yet - it's sort of a bonus target platform rather than a priority right now.
I'm inclined to think, however, anyone who's adamant about their main box being Linux will have minimal trouble coping with a dualboot Steam setup so long as they don't have a philsophical opposition to Steam.
My all time favorite comedian. Glad to know he's a CoX fan.
:)
I went to the general store. They wouldn't let me buy anthing specific.;D
The underlying power system in CoT is largely a freeform system that will be used (internally ) to construct the externally exposed powersets. By that token, the CoH powersets would be similarly constructed and presented. There will likely have to be some adjustments with probabilities, but that should be the majority of the conversion. We planned ahead.
I would suggest something similar to STO - global handles. There's a certain amount of uniqueness needed in a superhero game, to be sure, but I think it's better to make more people happy.
However, I have no way to access any CoH animations. The deal would not include any of the original development files, and to my knowledge there is no way to convert the games animation files into a usable format.
I bet not even CODEWALKER could do it.
how comfortable are you with bit packing and the math behind quaternions?
Heh. You guys are almost as crazy as I am.
EDIT: Holy Page 100, Batman!
The I.P. is covers everything City of Heroes related. ... The deal would not include any of the original development files
And I contest that things like the Team Transporter are actually "Pay to Win." My litmus test was "Can what this power does be done without it, even if doing it without the power is slower and/or less efficient?" And the Team Transporter passes this test. It's completely possible to run/fly to missions without it, it's just faster to use the Team Transporter to do the same thing.That's less time spent waiting around for people to arrive, much faster merit-to-time ratio, much better average XP/inf/drops per minute, and in general having more fun and being able to do other fun things sooner.
That satisfies just about every definition of "winning" I can think of in COH. It's not intended as a moral judgment, but given its 15 minute recharge compared to the 2 hour recharge of personal mission teleport power, I think a solid case can be made that the transporter was firmly in the "pay to win" category.
I would bet serious money that somewhere out there, there is a person with saved text from all of the story arcs.
The Rikti are here to destroy the world? Good thing they only landed in Paragon City! ;)
Are you saying "Theoretically no" to the "Would it be limited?" question, or the "would it be able to license CCG, novel, etc.?" question? If it's the former, great! I am super excited to see things like CCG expansion, MOBA, comics / novels, etc. If you're saying "no" to the latter question, why would that be the case?Essentially. But again, any contractual obligations required by NCSoft are far from hammered out, assuming anything new ever happens in the negotiatians.
using fan made vocal talent, which could be used in either game.
In other words, if you want voice acting, you guys have the power to make it happen.
I have a sexeh accent!
I still maintain that "Pay to Win" only applies to PvP. If you're using paid powers to complete things faster, and get more items... well, for me, I don't care. Sure, you're "winning," but you're beating NPCs. Whereas in PvP, the whole conceit of that endeavor is that everyone starts on a level playing field gear wise, and skill / build choices / etc. allow you to defeat other players. If you pay for an item that allows you to easily defeat other people in PvP, that is the literal definition of paying to win.
The only time "Pay to Win" would be an issue in PvE is in the market, but I think it was amply demonstrated that you didn't need great drops or lots of drops to be a marketeer.
Heh. You guys are almost as crazy as I am.
Here's 1 thing I was wondering... Do you plan to bring Galaxy City back, or go with how the zone was in i23?I confess I'd love that as well. I took it as a point of pride that some of my best characters were "Galaxy Girls," starting off there instead of in Atlas Park.
Please please please please please bring Galaxy City back! :p
<<SNIP>>
how comfortable are you with bit packing and the math behind quaternions?
Yeah I wouldn't want people demanding very specific requirements for team setups or leagues. I was actually turned off enough as it was with the incarnate trials when the occasional jerk-head demanded everyone be +3 for just about any incarnate trial.
The only time "Pay to Win" would be an issue in PvE is in the market, but I think it was amply demonstrated that you didn't need great drops or lots of drops to be a marketeer.
I never relied on drops, great or not, or even farming, AE tickets or even flipping salvage (except for mundane stuff to open up wentworth slots) and I had billions. I bought low and sold for what people willing pay for pre-crafted I/O's. No need for luck.I did all of the above, and more! :) I did whatever it took to accumulate INF. By the end, however, it was pretty easy as the devs started just selling INF directly in the cash shop. "No they weren't!", you say? "Sure they were", I reply. They sold Super Packs. Spend $100 on those, and dump what you don't need on the market, or use the Reward Merits from them to buy Luck of the Gambler recipes (or whatever else was going for high prices on the market at the time). It was basically a cash-for-INF marketing scheme, which I took gleeful advantage of.
I did all of the above, and more! :) I did whatever it took to accumulate INF. By the end, however, it was pretty easy as the devs started just selling INF directly in the cash shop. "No they weren't!", you say? "Sure they were", I reply. They sold Super Packs. Spend $100 on those, and dump what you don't need on the market, or use the Reward Merits from them to buy Luck of the Gambler recipes (or whatever else was going for high prices on the market at the time). It was basically a cash-for-INF marketing scheme, which I took gleeful advantage of.
Wait... I asked "Is it option A or option B?" and your answer is "Essentially." :P I think the implication is that you're saying "essentially" to the "licensing would not limited" part, which is good!
I just realized that I don't recall if there's a repository anywhere of data regarding enemy power effects.
There's City of Data for PC power effects, but there's probably at least as many, if not more, NPC attacks.
I still maintain that "Pay to Win" only applies to PvP. If you're using paid powers to complete things faster, and get more items... well, for me, I don't care. Sure, you're "winning," but you're beating NPCs. Whereas in PvP, the whole conceit of that endeavor is that everyone starts on a level playing field gear wise, and skill / build choices / etc. allow you to defeat other players. If you pay for an item that allows you to easily defeat other people in PvP, that is the literal definition of paying to win.
The only time "Pay to Win" would be an issue in PvE is in the market, but I think it was amply demonstrated that you didn't need great drops or lots of drops to be a marketeer.
Here's 1 thing I was wondering... Do you plan to bring Galaxy City back, or go with how the zone was in i23?
Please please please please please bring Galaxy City back! :p
Galaxy City was one of my favorite zones and my favorite starting zone.
Galaxy City was one of my favorite zones and my favorite starting zone.
Is it just me, or does this sound like something from "Buckaroo Banzai"?
I've read a lot about VO on this thread and since I think it unlikely to happen, I'm not fussed.
But I will say this, I'm not particularly impressed with it in any MMO I've played. Yes, I've played Secret World and even dabbled in Star Wars Old Republic, before I remembered why I'm done with Star Wars, and while it's fine the first time through, it's annoying on second trips. Now if the game is like Secret World where alt-ing is pretty pointless that's fine. But a game like CoH that encourages alt-ing? I'd pass on it.
For me, it's much faster to read the text then to someone read through it again. Essentially the same problem I have with internet video articles when a short block of text would do.
So if it were a democracy, I'd vote NO on VO.
Just a tip for future posters--I got about halfway through this post before I realized it wasn't about Valiance Online. :)
Is it soup yet? (Will there be soup?) :P
Here's 1 thing I was wondering... Do you plan to bring Galaxy City back, or go with how the zone was in i23?
Please please please please please bring Galaxy City back! :p
Unfortunately I think it was stated that NCSoft has an image of the game in issue 23 status so for Galaxy to return would likely have to be in COH 1.5
What was funny was that way before the shutdown I had some old characters parked in tutorial that I never activated. When I was making some CoH vids before shut down I saw those characters were still in the original tutorial so I was able to film the old and new one.
Also by running the old tutorial I was able to pick Galaxy City to start and it was the original fully functional GC.
Unfortunately I think it was stated that NCSoft has an image of the game in issue 23 status so for Galaxy to return would likely have to be in COH 1.5
Just a tip for future posters--I got about halfway through this post before I realized it wasn't about Valiance Online. :)
I confess I'd love that as well. I took it as a point of pride that some of my best characters were "Galaxy Girls," starting off there instead of in Atlas Park.
I just realized that I don't recall if there's a repository anywhere of data regarding enemy power effects.
There's City of Data for PC power effects, but there's probably at least as many, if not more, NPC attacks.
You're more optimistic than I am, but I'm ok with your optimism because optimism is what drives accomplishment. The realists and pessimists will not be "foolish" enough to try things which are a "long shot". The optimists invent the light bulb and fly to the moon. So there is definitely a place for them.
It was also the site of the longest running RP social spot on the Union server (the unofficial EU RP server). When we lost GC, we lost our -home-! :(
I imagine that APR (with the stated aim of duplicating i23 in UE4) will still have it destroyed. However... I'd say there's a good case for urban renewal.
Can you imagine GC being rebuilt as a modern suburban environment? Actual houses, a mall, maybe the odd manor house, too...
And lurking behind all of that good, clean urban bliss, corporate warfare, gang violence, and a corrupt police force.
Just throwin' ideas out there.
All of the NPC powers are in City of Data as well, if you know where to look (http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/powers/summon.php?id=Tyrant_P_Endgame_Tyrant_02).
I feel old, which special task force destroyed Skyway City? Is that being rebuilt, too?Admiral Sutter TF (http://http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Admiral_Sutter_Task_Force). It wasn't *destroyed* but it took a considerable amount of damage from the Praetorian strike.
But if you want some pointers for animations... how comfortable are you with bit packing and the math behind quaternions?
I like this attitude. This is an awesome attitude.I still struggle with it in some things. I'm generally optimistic...like I see that everything is getting better over time for humans instead of the common perception that things are always getting worse. I assume this will continue instead of the normal "doom" most seem to believe in.
I spent years upon years being a pessimist, and all it ever got me was depressed. For the past few years though, I've been choosing to be optimistic. And I gotta say... even if it doesn't change the outcome of anything, at least I feel better this way. At a bare minimum, embracing optimism caused a considerable improvement to my mental health. I consider that an accomplishment :)
I feel old, which special task force destroyed Skyway City? Is that being rebuilt, too?Admiral Sutter TF (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Admiral_Sutter_Task_Force). It wasn't *destroyed* but it took a considerable amount of damage from the Praetorian strike.
I still struggle with it in some things. I'm generally optimistic...like I see that everything is getting better over time for humans instead of the common perception that things are always getting worse. I assume this will continue instead of the normal "doom" most seem to believe in.
I guess someone never worked at Sprint... DOOOOOOOOOOOOM.
Could be worse, you can work for Comcast
Quaternions make my ears bleed.
Even worse, Funcoland/Gamestop
Their voices are kinda annoying. But they're cute under those masks....oh, wait, that's Quarians.Tali's voice is the cutest thing about Mass Effect and I will hear nothing to the contrary. Unless it's about Legion or EDI. (grumbles about unnecessary gender restrictions on romance plots)
Yep I ALWAYS started my heroes in Galaxy City, at least up to the point where I couldn't any longer.
If we get a vote (hmm maybe a bribe would help?), then I'd vote that APR restore Galaxy City to a viable zone.
Galaxy City is remade as a theme park celebrating the life, times, and exploits of the man,. the myth, the legend, Dillo.Amazing air sounds.
Hoorb.
I will say that I do have plans in regards to Galaxy City. I won't say what quite yet, but I think you guys will like it.
They could combine Galaxy City with Dark Astoria.
Make it either Dark City or Astoria Galaxy.
Or Dark Galaxy.
Dark Galaxy sounds like a Silent Hill-esque kind of zone.That was the old Dark Astoria - truthfully I loved it a lot more than the new version, though I did love the new Lovecraftian storyline that came with the new zone. I loved to just fly around the old Dark Astoria, flying blind through the dense fog, with undead everywhere and possibly Adamastor lurking about.
You're totally going to rename it Meteor City, aren't you?
"Come visit the wonders of Shivatown!"
The underlying power system in CoT is largely a freeform system that will be used (internally ) to construct the externally exposed powersets. By that token, the CoH powersets would be similarly constructed and presented. There will likely have to be some adjustments with probabilities, but that should be the majority of the conversion. We planned ahead.
how comfortable are you with bit packing and the math behind quaternions?
That was the old Dark Astoria - truthfully I loved it a lot more than the new version, though I did love the new Lovecraftian storyline that came with the new zone.
Overall, I prefer "new" DA, because there is actually content there now, as opposed to endless tracts of barely populated (by BP) space, but I do wish they'd have found a way to keep the fog in it. Probably not quite as dense, but some degree of it.Yes, the new zone is an exotic, overt horror show of eldritch abominations openly walking the streets, but what you can't see is always scarier. The old DA had that feeling in spades. Even disregarding the Banished Pantheon zombies wandering everywhere, you could never shake the feeling that some unknown horror was lurking around the corner, or just ahead of you, concealed by the fog...
That and the occasional NPC "ghosts" that you'd see wandering in the fog.
Nice try...
I really am too busy with other projects to do anything more than point you in the right direction. I'm certainly not going to write conversion tools, especially since a while back I took time out to explain the geo structure (which isn't even the animations, just the geometry) to a few people who approached me about creating a "other model formats -> geo" converter, but none of them came through or got very far with it. At the moment I'm much more interested in creating new geos and animations for the coh engine than extracting them.
However, it seems that reading and writing custom file formats without the help of a library to do it for you is something of a lost art. I blame the .NET and Java culture for this, leading many people to learn programming in a way that leaves them without a practical understanding of how the lower levels they're building on actually work, and dependent on someone else to solve the hard problems in a library for them.
But if you want some pointers for animations... how comfortable are you with bit packing and the math behind quaternions?
Hey, I'd like to think that was a *GREAT* try! :D
I've never pretended to be any sort of programmer. At all. I'm SO not.
So...It might be less surprising when I say that I have NO idea what quaternions are, or what bit packing is. :\
Thanks, to Shard, Downix and IG for your responses -- it sounds awesome.
Man, Quternions would have made a great name for the mysterious team before Nate's announce.
Does UE4 support random events such as weather changes? I would love to finally see it rain every now and then, or snow!
We're almost there! ;D
Haha, Funcoland, now that's a name I haven't heard since I was a kid.
Hey, I'd like to think that was a *GREAT* try! :D
I've never pretended to be any sort of programmer. At all. I'm SO not.
So...It might be less surprising when I say that I have NO idea what quaternions are, or what bit packing is. :\
Just one more level of immersion, Remaugen!
My inner MST3k demon wants me to say that bit packing is a slang term for when two robots "interface," if you know what I mean.
Yes, may Funcoland/Gamestop one day go the way of Blockbuster Video....
Yes, the new zone is an exotic, overt horror show of eldritch abominations openly walking the streets, but what you can't see is always scarier. The old DA had that feeling in spades. Even disregarding the Banished Pantheon zombies wandering everywhere, you could never shake the feeling that some unknown horror was lurking around the corner, or just ahead of you, concealed by the fog...Very well said.
Galaxy City is remade as a theme park celebrating the life, times, and exploits of the man,. the myth, the legend, Dillo.
Hoorb.
Now that's who we need to get for recording voiceovers. Dillo.I bet War Witch and Ghost Widow, or maybe even just a Carny, would make for interesting narrating.
Ooh, and Flambeaux. I can just imagine the glorious wackiness that would ensue with that pair narrating everything ;D
Quaternions make my ears bleed. They're a means of measuring rotation that uses four elements. The advantage is you can avoid gimble lock you can get in euler rotation (X,Y,Z). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrUCBOlJdt4
I've done some scripting in LSL for SecondLife and their rotation system is in quaternions. When I have to deal with rotations I just do it in euler and convert it when I'm done. Ugly, but I can usually get the result I want.
I read a tutorial on quaternions once. I was almost comprehending it and suddenly someone hit the warp drive and I was left in the dust. At the end of the tutorial was a note saying unless you've taken a course in higher math you have no shot at understanding this. I wish they had put that note at the front!
Not that I have the smarts/knowledge/desire to take this on. Just saying I know what that Q word means and it makes my brain hurt.
Stuff. Also, Things.
http://youtu.be/evlrs5Bi_6E
Ah, Yes. Arcana and Codewalker... the only two people on this forum who can frequently make my head hurt.
I see your Blockbuster and raise you a Circuit City
See your CC and raise you a Crazy Eddie. His prices are INSANE!!!I bought a lot of my first NES games from them. I distinctly remember buying Metroid, DK and DK Jr. from them, and they usually had a NES and SMS set up to play games on. (It's where I played the SMS version of Ghostbusters)
http://youtu.be/F8_-vG4sdJs
I see your Blockbuster and raise you a Circuit City
Alright, I'm digging through the Issue 24 change log.
There certainly were quite a number of changes... But, So far...Everything looks good.
So. I *think* I'm going to go ahead and say it...
Revival will feature Issue 24.
Makes sense.
i24 looks to be a real improvement right across the board.
Has anyone else noticed that the cityofheroes.com "Sunset pag
There are already FB speculations about it.
Might this be a positive sign for the ongoing Hail Mary negotiations, or just a webpage corruption for cityofheroes.com?
http://youtu.be/evlrs5Bi_6E
Makes sense.Players were calling it "Fix Everything (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Issue_24)", and almost universally looking forward to it.
i24 looks to be a real improvement right across the board.
Cityofheroes.com won't resolve; coh.com redirects to NCSoft's homepage instead of bringing up the sunset notice like it did before...
Edit: They both still appear to be registered to NCSoft.
Yep, it's been two years, whatever purpose the sunset page had is long gone.
But if you mean that something has happened to the sunset page over at coh.com, I'd expect that's either
purely coincidence or else maybe NCSoft is cleaning up their old stuff.
Alright, I'm digging through the Issue 24 change log.(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=t.wallpaperweb.org%2Fwallpaper%2Fmiscellaneous%2F1600x1200%2FPop_the_Top_and_Celebrate.jpg)
There certainly were quite a number of changes... But, So far...Everything looks good.
So. I *think* I'm going to go ahead and say it...
Revival will feature Issue 24.
I just tried both with the same results. I seriously doubt it has much to do with Nate's offer either, though.
After all, even Nate said in his initial post in this thread that NCSoft may only be listening politely for now only to say afterward that no suitable buyer was found. I admire the team that approached them, but it wouldn't surprise me if they wound up having wasted their time in the end. If NCSoft wanted to sell, their best opportunity came and went two years ago and involved pro studio and creators of CoX, Paragon Studios of course.
I have the feeling Big Brother wanted not only his hands in the pie but also both feet and his face too, and Paragon wanted out from under the Big Money Drain and constant threats of closure. That's only my conjecture, though, having played many of NCSoft's MMOs in the past and seen many if not most of them suffer similar shutdowns (not to mention experiencing the couple still limping along that they run themselves, oy).
Let's just hope that the team who put an initial offer onto the table this past July can correctly ascertain if NCSoft's demands are going to be too unreasonable. Sparkly rose-colored glasses are fine for backseat drivers, but not for those who are going to be saddled with heavy debts, all the trappings of running a business and 24/7 maintenance responsibilities. The only ones who had true records of the amount of paying customers (and what that figure was) would be Paragon Studios. NCSoft isn't going to give out that information (I highly doubt it anyway), and besides, it's been two years: What percentage of those former paying customers will even be back, especially without account info and characters waiting anymore? Again, the best opportunity was with Paragon Studios, when all of that was still intact and the game could be modified and added to besides, and by people who created that code and knew it inside out. It's too bad NCSoft blew it then.
Alright, I'm digging through the Issue 24 change log.
There certainly were quite a number of changes... But, So far...Everything looks good.
So. I *think* I'm going to go ahead and say it...
Revival will feature Issue 24.
I recall the Devs talking about why they got rid of the fog in one of the new DA previews on the website, but I always wondered if they really thought twice about it. Limited experience with mapping and textures and things; is it a big deal to render fog in an MMO?
My inner MST3k demon wants me to say that bit packing is a slang term for when two robots "interface," if you know what I mean.
No, I don't know what you mean.
Please provide intimate details including drawings, diagrams, powerpoint, photos, focus group discussion, noir video, claymation and most importantly interpretive dance.
Alright, I'm digging through the Issue 24 change log.(https://i.imgur.com/g9044aZ.gif)
There certainly were quite a number of changes... But, So far...Everything looks good.
So. I *think* I'm going to go ahead and say it...
Revival will feature Issue 24.
(https://i.imgur.com/g9044aZ.gif)
So... the matrix math one would probably be overkill then.
That's a sort of player-centric view of pay to win where the definition of "winning" is mostly congruent with "beating other players."
...
Gameplay-rewarding game rewards are the way *the game* defines "winning" even if it doesn't call it that. That's the definition that I think should be the primary one when judging "pay to win."
Yes, the new zone is an exotic, overt horror show of eldritch abominations openly walking the streets, but what you can't see is always scarier. The old DA had that feeling in spades. Even disregarding the Banished Pantheon zombies wandering everywhere, you could never shake the feeling that some unknown horror was lurking around the corner, or just ahead of you, concealed by the fog...
Alright, I'm digging through the Issue 24 change log.
There certainly were quite a number of changes... But, So far...Everything looks good.
So. I *think* I'm going to go ahead and say it...
Revival will feature Issue 24.
It appears CityofHeroes.com won't resolve.
Alright, I'm digging through the Issue 24 change log.Wonderful! As you may have discerned, I'm very passionate about CoH lore. :)
There certainly were quite a number of changes... But, So far...Everything looks good.
So. I *think* I'm going to go ahead and say it...
Revival will feature Issue 24.
I noticed that too, I have been checking every other day or so. Of course it means nothing, but it continues to fuel my optimism!
I think it does mean something has happened. That page was up for a long time, and all of a sudden when the deal is close to happening it goes down? I think the deal is done and they no longer have the rights to display that page. And the new owners are getting ready for a new page reveal incoming soon.From your lips to the ears of the gods of gaming...
I think it does mean something has happened. That page was up for a long time, and all of a sudden when the deal is close to happening it goes down? I think the deal is done and they no longer have the rights to display that page. And the new owners are getting ready for a new page reveal incoming soon.
Eh, I'm a little skeptical of that reasoning. If the domain didn't still belong to NCSoft, then it wouldn't be redirecting to their home page.
It is a player-centric view. I am of the opinion that people who consider getting game rewards faster through paid items "pay to win" are jealous (I am guilty of such jealousy myself). I mean, so what if someone gets more merits than you?
I think it does mean something has happened. That page was up for a long time, and all of a sudden when the deal is close to happening it goes down? I think the deal is done and they no longer have the rights to display that page. And the new owners are getting ready for a new page reveal incoming soon.
I think it does mean something has happened. That page was up for a long time, and all of a sudden when the deal is close to happening it goes down? I think the deal is done and they no longer have the rights to display that page. And the new owners are getting ready for a new page reveal incoming soon.
Sentinel+ only records what the client had access to, which doesn't include a lot of server side flags.It depends on how much fine control you have over the import process. I see no technical reason why an import tool can't be configured so that, if the character being imported has badge X, that means that the import process needs to set flag Y in the character record that gets created. Granted, this is going to give the import tool a large number of special-case conditions for specific badges, but remember that the Sentinel+ tool was created to dump as much information about a character as possible without having access to any data not available to the client; an import tool would presumably be created with full access to the back-end data structures. Whether expending the resources to make an import tool aware of the links between badges and character flags is worthwhile is a value judgement that will have to be made as part of the decision-making about how to restore the game if and when an agreement is closed with NCSoft.
Does character have X costume pieces? Y/N, and so forth.
Badges are more complicated. Having the badge to access Ouroboros wouldn't give you access to the Citadel, the flag does. But the flag is triggered by getting the badge. If you can't get the badge because you already have it...Then you can never gain access to Ouroboros.
Unless I misunderstood something, Which is possible since I stopped paying too much attention after Codewalker said "Not going to work."
Alright, I'm digging through the Issue 24 change log.
There certainly were quite a number of changes... But, So far...Everything looks good.
So. I *think* I'm going to go ahead and say it...
Revival will feature Issue 24.
Why is my name the one in bold? Nate's name should prolly be the one in bold. lol
I will say that I do have plans in regards to Galaxy City. I won't say what quite yet, but I think you guys will like it.
Back before the remake, I always hoped Galaxy City would become the entry pointo for lunar/space based missions. Galaxy City redone as the high tech, space industry hub of the US/Paragon City.
It could have occasional "launch sounds" like you had in Bloody Bay, which represented ships launching, etc. and have a build like Portal Corp but whose portals led to instellar locations the way that Portal Corp's led to multiversal locations.
Back before the remake, I always hoped Galaxy City would become the entry pointo for lunar/space based missions. Galaxy City redone as the high tech, space industry hub of the US/Paragon City.
It could have occasional "launch sounds" like you had in Bloody Bay, which represented ships launching, etc. and have a build like Portal Corp but whose portals led to instellar locations the way that Portal Corp's led to multiversal locations.
That's why I asked Irish_Girl...
Awesome! Galaxy City rebuilt as a spaceport, that's too perfect!
We're almost there! ;D
Irish, this would be fantastic. I've been rereading what was listed on Paragon wiki for ish 24.
can you list ish 24 changes that are not yet listed on paragon wiki?
The thing that would make this work, even post-redo, is the fact that Galaxy City was the site of a massive attack by a new space based threat. The rebuilding also making it the "base of operations" for our now incredibly important space industry/defense/expansion would make sense, given that. It's location within Paragon City also gives it closer access to Rikti space ship technology, which could be part of the basis for our own.
Which is kinda cool, too, if you think about it. The Rikti invasion, our greatest threat to date, become the key to our defense against even bigger extra-terrestrial threat.
No, I don't know what you mean.
Please provide intimate details including drawings, diagrams, powerpoint, photos, focus group discussion, noir video, claymation and most importantly interpretive dance.
So. I *think* I'm going to go ahead and say it...
Revival will feature Issue 24.
FYI, here's an interview that I haven't seen posted: http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/bringing-back-paragon-interview-city-of-heroes/
FYI, here's an interview that I haven't seen posted: http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/bringing-back-paragon-interview-city-of-heroes/
The second most important part is the apparent addition of LUA scripting to missions. I'm not a programmer, so I don't really have a good idea of what that actually means, but it's my understanding it would have given the devs almost infinitely more freedom to do crazy things during missions, from branching decisions to NPC behavior to whatever.
They did some really cool things in i24 with this, and I know they were cackling with glee at all of its practicalities.
One particularly cool mission that comes to mind, when your player went in and started fighting the baddies, all the "non-enemy" NPCs started pouring out of the room in terror.
No, I don't know what you mean.
Please provide intimate details including drawings, diagrams, powerpoint, photos, focus group discussion, noir video, claymation and most importantly interpretive dance.
Irish, this would be fantastic. I've been rereading what was listed on Paragon wiki for ish 24.
can you list ish 24 changes that are not yet listed on paragon wiki?
Actually, I just did that because I didn't spell out your name and I was falling asleep when I made that post -- literally falling asleep -- at my desk. Hitting enter was the last thing I did before stumbling over to brush my teeth for bed.
Loving the Galaxy City ideas.
Just one thing: the Galaxy Girl statue must, must, MUST be there. Preferably in a ped-collision-box and enemy-free space.
Do this, and I guarantee that a number of Unionites will love you forever.
lmao. Ah, yes. Been there,done that. Repeatedly. A lot.Saved for later use, out of context :D
Saved for later use, out of context :D
Loving the Galaxy City ideas.Also Virtuites.
Just one thing: the Galaxy Girl statue must, must, MUST be there. Preferably in a ped-collision-box and enemy-free space.
Do this, and I guarantee that a number of Unionites will love you forever.
Is this CoH 1.5 going to be able to import characters from CoH Legacy ??
I think it does mean something has happened. That page was up for a long time, and all of a sudden when the deal is close to happening it goes down? I think the deal is done and they no longer have the rights to display that page. And the new owners are getting ready for a new page reveal incoming soon.Oh lord... could be the best "page cannot be displayed error" in the history of mankind.
Nice try...
I really am too busy with other projects to do anything more than point you in the right direction. I'm certainly not going to write conversion tools, especially since a while back I took time out to explain the geo structure (which isn't even the animations, just the geometry) to a few people who approached me about creating a "other model formats -> geo" converter, but none of them came through or got very far with it. At the moment I'm much more interested in creating new geos and animations for the coh engine than extracting them.
However, it seems that reading and writing custom file formats without the help of a library to do it for you is something of a lost art. I blame the .NET and Java culture for this, leading many people to learn programming in a way that leaves them without a practical understanding of how the lower levels they're building on actually work, and dependent on someone else to solve the hard problems in a library for them.
But if you want some pointers for animations... how comfortable are you with bit packing and the math behind quaternions?
Is this CoH 1.5 going to be able to import characters from CoH Legacy ??
The second most important part is the apparent addition of LUA scripting to missions. I'm not a programmer, so I don't really have a good idea of what that actually means, but it's my understanding it would have given the devs almost infinitely more freedom to do crazy things during missions, from branching decisions to NPC behavior to whatever.
Again, no new info, but still good media coverage...
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/03/city-of-heroes-license-could-be-resurrected
At least all these media mentions show NCSoft that players still care about CoX. After all, if no one knew what it was or cared that it was dead, no one would bother reporting on it. Clearly the mainstream gaming media knows that CoX still burns brightly in the hearts of many (as it does in some of their hearts too probably) or they wouldn't waste page space on it. So I hope NCSoft doesn't get too upset about all the writeups.
Save city of heroes mentioned the legacy server would be time sensitive and would have to piggy back APR to stay on longer. I had a hard enough time playing those final 3 months when I knew things were ending.
Save city of heroes mentioned the legacy server would be time sensitive and would have to piggy back APR to stay on longer. I had a hard enough time playing those final 3 months when I knew things were ending.
Yes but should COH return, that doesn't mean that APR/1.5 will launch soon after. Also didn't some of the articles mention that legacy CoH should remain online after 1.5/APR launches?
Admitting freely that I'm a very non-computer-technical player, I have a question about player data.I think they should be, given you have the costume files in the appropriate folder once we get the game back.
Everything I've read so far states that no player data is on the table for the Hail Mary Team deal. This of course means no recovering character builds.
What about character costumes? I know that when I open up the ICON program -- (and a million thanks! to everyone who had a hand in restoring at least this part of the game for us) -- all my "saved" costume files for ALL my characters are there, presumably because they're still stored in the CoH files on my PC.
If that's the case, would all our costume-designs, at least the "Saved" ones, still be available to us should the deal go through and City of Heroes be opened up again for play?
Admitting freely that I'm a very non-computer-technical player, I have a question about player data.
Everything I've read so far states that no player data is on the table for the Hail Mary Team deal. This of course means no recovering character builds.
What about character costumes? I know that when I open up the ICON program -- (and a million thanks! to everyone who had a hand in restoring at least this part of the game for us) -- all my "saved" costume files for ALL my characters are there, presumably because they're still stored in the CoH files on my PC.
If that's the case, would all our costume-designs, at least the "Saved" ones, still be available to us should the deal go through and City of Heroes be opened up again for play?
Alright, I'm digging through the Issue 24 change log.
There certainly were quite a number of changes... But, So far...Everything looks good.
So. I *think* I'm going to go ahead and say it...
Revival will feature Issue 24.
Save city of heroes mentioned the legacy server would be time sensitive and would have to piggy back APR to stay on longer. I had a hard enough time playing those final 3 months when I knew things were ending.
Again, no new info, but still good media coverage...
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/03/city-of-heroes-license-could-be-resurrected
No one can make any promises, but I think Blondshell is right, if the load costume button remains and you still have valid costumes in your folders, then I think you should be able to load them.
The primary caveat on using saved costumes in any resurrected game is that some costume parts needed to be unlocked to be used by the player or by a specific character, and so the same limitations would apply there.
There's a second, more minor caveat in that even when the game was running there were some older costumes that were in a sense "grandfathered" to the player in that you could have them and save them, but they would not load back. A part might have been renamed or replaced or some other thing happened and you couldn't really select it anymore, but the character itself still had it.
The basic rule is that if you could have rebuilt your character's appearance in theory in a brand new account in CoH, that costume will almost certainly load into a resurrected I23. Otherwise, a saved costume would probably still work in a resurrected I23 provided you unlocked all the parts through gameplay or purchase, or the operators of the game unlocked them for you.
I'm just going to throw this in here: If the CoX i23 image ever does get rezzed, whomever is running it is going to need to run it on a shoestring budget to keep it running at all. There will be no full CS team "restoring" this, "compiling lists" of that, or working on "petitions" for much of anything. Even some people on these boards have stated they will only play if it's free because they're broke etc. and here resides the last bastion of CoX fandom by far, let's face it. And If there are 100 active users currently posting on CoH Titan I'd be surprised.
Perhaps there were 60,000 people playing at the time of shutdown, with maybe half of those either paying for subs, or for cash shop items, or both. That number will likely be even lower once the CoX image comes back. There isn't going to be character or account info available for many reasons that have already been detailed multiple times on these forums. There will be no code changes because there is no code. The engine is dated now.
I'll be the first in line to pay and play, believe me, but I think we need to be realistic about our expectations. I wouldn't be surprised if the CoX i23 team winds up volunteering much of their work time as it is. People just need to be more reasonable in their expectations and accept a....more streamlined experience. And that's if NCSoft just doesn't politely say no and walk away, of course. And I still say if they'd wanted to sell, CoX would have already been long gone to Paragon Studios back at the end of 2012.
It's all been good press so far!
Going through the old files from COH, I discovered not only the saved costumes but also the saved custom keybinds. With those put in the correct folder when legacy COH returns, I don't see any reason why those keybinds can't be used again.
Thought you guys might be interested to see this. Comparison of the original Paragon Transit Authority texture, and the new one that's been made for Revival.
Obviously, the new one is the right half.
Shout out to Fangoria for the work.Spoiler for Hidden:
Thought you guys might be interested to see this. Comparison of the original Paragon Transit Authority texture, and the new one that's been made for Revival.That is very nice. Fingers crossed that this comes to fruition.
Obviously, the new one is the right half.
Shout out to Fangoria for the work.Spoiler for Hidden:
I'm just going to throw this in here: If the CoX i23 image ever does get rezzed, whomever is running it is going to need to run it on a shoestring budget to keep it running at all. There will be no full CS team "restoring" this, "compiling lists" of that, or working on "petitions" for much of anything. Even some people on these boards have stated they will only play if it's free because they're broke etc. and here resides the last bastion of CoX fandom by far, let's face it. And If there are 100 active users currently posting on CoH Titan I'd be surprised.
Perhaps there were 60,000 people playing at the time of shutdown, with maybe half of those either paying for subs, or for cash shop items, or both. That number will likely be even lower once the CoX image comes back. There isn't going to be character or account info available for many reasons that have already been detailed multiple times on these forums. There will be no code changes because there is no code. The engine is dated now.
I'll be the first in line to pay and play, believe me, but I think we need to be realistic about our expectations. I wouldn't be surprised if the CoX i23 team winds up volunteering much of their work time as it is. People just need to be more reasonable in their expectations and accept a....more streamlined experience. And that's if NCSoft just doesn't politely say no and walk away, of course. And I still say if they'd wanted to sell, CoX would have already been long gone to Paragon Studios back at the end of 2012.
Perhaps they should compile a list of all badges of all types, map, history, defeat, achievment, etc that unlocked costume pieces/weapons, for example: defeat 100 rularuu bosses = badge + rularuu weapon unlock.
I think that City of Heroes for its last couple of years received almost no advertizing, and almost no publicity.
I also think that a revival of CoH is going to get an internet ton of free publicity just because of the story of its revival. This will bring in a lot of former players who aren't aware of Titan network, and it will also get a lot of other MMORPG players who didn't know about it, to check it out on the basis of "Hey, there must be something interesting in this game if people were fighting for years to bring it back".
I think that it will hit a lot higher than it had at the end, and that number will go up if the dev team can find a way to add new powers and new powersets (even without new artwork). You can easily subcontract someone to create new powersets for a while, and that would be cheaper than running a development team, while giving a vibe saying that the game is not just going to be kept alive as a zombie, that there will be new updates.
I'm a lot more worried about the deal actually closing, than about having a fizzle of a launch if it does close.
If not, that would be disappointing to start anew in Coh Legacy only to have to start anew again in 1.5.
Please remember that there will be NO new powersets, no patches, no updates, no anything. There is NO code, only a snapshot image backup of i23 the night the servers went down permanently. It's going to be CoX i23 in maintenance mode, period, and let's face it, the chances of a deal actually happening are pretty low, so even maintenance mode would be a miracle over what we've got now (and let's hope there's not the constant looming threat of another NCSoft-sponsored closure along with it).
I agree with that. I think its the whole point of 1.5; namely to take over for when COH is no longer supported by the O/S. That means saving the characters is core to the mission.The other rather significant point is to allow the game to have continuing support and development. CoH 1.0 will not have source code or developer tools, there will be no way to make significant additions or changes to the original game going forward. CoH 1.5 will be fully expandable and be running on a modern engine.
The other rather significant point is to allow the game to have continuing support and development. CoH 1.0 will not have source code or developer tools, there will be no way to make significant additions or changes to the original game going forward. CoH 1.5 will be fully expandable and be running on a modern engine.
Some people might not see it this way, but to me it would be perfectly acceptable to have to start over in 1.5 if i want to play new content. In the past i frequently remade characters when new sets came out that better realized the character concepts, and besides all 1.0 characters will have been recently remade anyway. Although i suspect transferring account-based unlocks for things like rewards and costume pieces should be relatively easy since a new account system will have to reimplemented anyway.
I hope for the best and expect the worst. :PIf this attempt to gain access to the IP falls through, I dont expect anyone will attempt another. I know business negotiations take a while But I have seen military appropriations for new gear go faster than this.
Please remember that there will be NO new powersets, no patches, no updates, no anything. There is NO code, only a snapshot image backup of i23 the night the servers went down permanently. It's going to be CoX i23 in maintenance mode, period, and let's face it, the chances of a deal actually happening are pretty low, so even maintenance mode would be a miracle over what we've got now (and let's hope there's not the constant looming threat of another NCSoft-sponsored closure along with it).
Admitting freely that I'm a very non-computer-technical player, I have a question about player data.This isn't fair to those of us who weren't able to save our costumes and characters. Why should you not have to start from scratch when I do?
Everything I've read so far states that no player data is on the table for the Hail Mary Team deal. This of course means no recovering character builds.
What about character costumes? I know that when I open up the ICON program -- (and a million thanks! to everyone who had a hand in restoring at least this part of the game for us) -- all my "saved" costume files for ALL my characters are there, presumably because they're still stored in the CoH files on my PC.
If that's the case, would all our costume-designs, at least the "Saved" ones, still be available to us should the deal go through and City of Heroes be opened up again for play?
This isn't fair to those of us who weren't able to save our costumes and characters. Why should you not have to start from scratch when I do?You can start right now and begin creating costumes and saving them, with ICON. Then you won't be starting from scratch.
This isn't fair to those of us who weren't able to save our costumes and characters. Why should you not have to start from scratch when I do?
I just finished my own COH/COV costume project. Recreating after several months all 126 costumes from characters I can still remember having played after a 2 year hiatus. I had deleted my original COH client and files when the game finally shutdown in 2012. While I did save some costumes and Sentinel + files on all of my most played toons (roughly about 30 characters), I did not save them all. I was thrilled to be able to get Icon and be able to look at my old toons. So before I could forget everything I made up a spreadsheet of all the characters I could still recall, with origins, powersets, and began remaking all the costumes I missed after the shutdown. This was fine until my Nvidia card in my old legacy computer died. That brought the project to a crashing halt after about 80% completion.
Then I got a new computer with all the bells and whistles. Now I was able to re-download the client and Icon and resume work. I finally got to run around the game in Ultra Mode for the first time. Man I wish I could have done that when the game was live.
I know I am still missing some characters as I had every server slot used up that was either free or as a reward which should be a little over 150 characters. But they probably were only played once and forgotten. Seeing some of the new I24 costume bits is bittersweet. Maybe they will see the light of day some day. :-\
If you weren't able to save character data and costumes that is one thing, if you were not WILLING to do that is something else.
Please remember that there will be NO new powersets, no patches, no updates, no anything. There is NO code, only a snapshot image backup of i23 the night the servers went down permanently. It's going to be CoX i23 in maintenance mode, period, and let's face it, the chances of a deal actually happening are pretty low, so even maintenance mode would be a miracle over what we've got now (and let's hope there's not the constant looming threat of another NCSoft-sponsored closure along with it).
Alright, I'm digging through the Issue 24 change log.
There certainly were quite a number of changes... But, So far...Everything looks good.
So. I *think* I'm going to go ahead and say it...
Revival will feature Issue 24.
I24 is what I was hoping for. Blasters rejoice!
I really need to have a go with Icon, heh.
This isn't fair to those of us who weren't able to save our costumes and characters. Why should you not have to start from scratch when I do?As has already been pointed out everyone who played CoH had the option to save as many costumes as they wanted to save. The tools for doing so were part of the game itself. All you had to do was save the costume while in the tailor screen and then not delete the folder with the costume files in it.
This isn't fair to those of us who weren't able to save our costumes and characters. Why should you not have to start from scratch when I do?
For blasters, a killer and long over due release.
Now, if only Irish Girl would commit to 'fixing' defenders and allow them to apply Force Field: Insulation and Deflector shields to THEMSELVES!!! (That would stop Defenders from having difficulty soloing. That's a fair trade off for 'only having' blasts at 65% of Blaster hitting power.) Under this, Defenders could actually 'tank' to a degree or adopt the junior tank label.
As opposed to being a human punching bag for even mediocre mobs.
I'm going out on my limb again to state that I24 was not complete. I keep hearing from everyone about how it was this perfect thing and it was going to fix the entire game. Maybe it was (or not) but it was not complete in beta. You can see it if you pull up icon beta and look around. (I don't think the icon mod actually put in damage amounts, but I could be wrong).
As to the I24 changes themselves:
It seems to me that these "fixes" that were to be introduced in I24 were a bit odd. So many changes (that had been back burnered for years) in one issue?
I can think of two obvious possible reasons for this.
One, the devs knew something was up and the game was getting close to closing. This would have been a push for new players to save the game.
Two, the devs were settling the game with an eye to the future issues. As in, they had something planned which would have included much harder content.
Both of these possibilities leaves the possibility that I24 (without development scrutiny) could have been as much game breaking as game changing.
When you start looking at the numbers, there was a huuuge increase in DPS on the way for blasters, defenders and corrupters.
Did this "balance" need to take place for those ATs because they were so inferior to the melee and control characters? I'm not convinced of that.
How does this all affect the interactions for teaming? AV killing? Soloing? Pre 50 content? Post 50 content?
I've left out the other changes, but they all would need evaluation too.
I hate this argument. It's like "Oh, I didn't prepare, and you did, so it's your fault and everyone who prepared should restart like me."
And the argument "I had some out of game program to save some data makes me special, so I dont want to start over and am looking for any way I can to get my stuff back" is better?
Everybody wants their pancake back. Aint gonna happen unless the new company gets all user data from NCsoft. If they allow the special people to get their stuff but not others, pancake will not fly. All or none.
I24 was essentially complete. It was on the test server for a month prior to the announcement. Positron has said it was a week away from release. The other powersets that are visable in ICON were not intended for I24.
And yes, it would created a DPS and survivability increase for ranged characters. That was the whole purpose, because they were significantly inferior to melee and control characters. And you are correct, they intended to up the difficulty of future content.
And the argument "I had some out of game program to save some data makes me special, so I dont want to start over and am looking for any way I can to get my stuff back" is better?
Everybody wants their pancake back. Aint gonna happen unless the new company gets all user data from NCsoft. If they allow the special people to get their stuff but not others, pancake will not fly. All or none.
I24 was essentially complete. It was on the test server for a month prior to the announcement. Positron has said it was a week away from release. The other powersets that are visable in ICON were not intended for I24.
And yes, it would created a DPS and survivability increase for ranged characters. That was the whole purpose, because they were significantly inferior to melee and control characters. And you are correct, they intended to up the difficulty of future content.
Meh.
My blasters were never inferior to melee and control toons. I might not have been able to stand toe to toe with mobs but not many were left standing after a few seconds :)
It looks like i24 improvements will make blasters almost overpowered ... or maybe there's no 'almost' about it.
When you start looking at the numbers, there was a huuuge increase in DPS on the way for blasters, defenders and corrupters.
Did this "balance" need to take place for those ATs because they were so inferior to the melee and control characters? I'm not convinced of that.
The other rather significant point is to allow the game to have continuing support and development. CoH 1.0 will not have source code or developer tools, there will be no way to make significant additions or changes to the original game going forward. CoH 1.5 will be fully expandable and be running on a modern engine.
Some people might not see it this way, but to me it would be perfectly acceptable to have to start over in 1.5 if i want to play new content. In the past i frequently remade characters when new sets came out that better realized the character concepts, and besides all 1.0 characters will have been recently remade anyway. Although i suspect transferring account-based unlocks for things like rewards and costume pieces should be relatively easy since a new account system will have to implemented anyway.
Edit: "a new account system will have to be reimplemented"? Really? Since i haven't registered with the Department of Redundancy Department i feel compelled to tweak the wording slightly.
They are not talking about getting their characters/toons back. But if you still have your original install of CoH, then if you had any saved costumes they should still be in their folder. That's all, nothing to get upset about, in fact, if you go into Icon you can make and save costumes right now if you want. No promises that they will work, but logic say's they should.
Sentinel files are off the table, no one will be able to use them so it's not even an issue. No reason to argue or get upset about it.
We're almost there! ;D
They are not talking about getting their characters/toons back. But if you still have your original install of CoH, then if you had any saved costumes they should still be in their folder. That's all, nothing to get upset about, in fact, if you go into Icon you can make and save costumes right now if you want. No promises that they will work, but logic say's they should.
Sentinel files are off the table, no one will be able to use them so it's not even an issue. No reason to argue or get upset about it.
We're almost there! ;D
And the argument "I had some out of game program to save some data makes me special, so I dont want to start over and am looking for any way I can to get my stuff back" is better?
Everybody wants their pancake back. Aint gonna happen unless the new company gets all user data from NCsoft. If they allow the special people to get their stuff but not others, pancake will not fly. All or none.
I'm absolutely convinced Blasters needed buffs. Arbiter Hawk agreed, but he felt there were issues with many powers that happened to affect blasters, like nukes, and wanted to address them as well. There were a lot of different changes all over the place because Arbiter Hawk got the green light to make many of these changes. I was specifically discussing these changes with him for months right up to literally a day or two before the shutdown announcement. They might seem random, but they were not. They represented a significant shift in thinking, because a different dev was given permission to make sweeping changes across much of the power base (those changes still still needed to be approved, but AH's thought process was much different from Castle's, say, or Black Scorpions.
Regarding Issue 24.... Even if a Atlas Park Revived includes it, what does that mean? Storyline and lore, contacts, things like that are probably able to be added no problem. But everyone's talking about game mechanics changes, buffing this, buffing that, blasters are great now... But it's my understanding that APR will use a different engine from CoH anyways! Which means that all the combat powers are going to be starting from scratch anyways, right? Unless APR is somehow able to exactly copy the behavior of the CoH engine, it seems to me that most anything involving powers and their use, and hard numbers, is going to be built from square one again anyways. Or am I wrong?Well the whole point to CoH 1.5 is to replicate the mechanics of CoH 1.0 at shutdown as closely as possible and iterate from there, much like the Devs had done since Issue 0. So the current plan is build 1.5 using the numbers and combat mechanics of Issue 24 and then continue from that point. So the changes to 1.5 are at the base software code and graphics engine level, gameplay will be kept the same as the original game as much as possible.
yes, blasters in particular were falling behind the other ATs.
It would be that shift in thinking that I was picking up on. My whole argument was based on my thoughts that there seemed to be such a shift.
Changes don't go on in a vacuum (except when talking about a game that does not currently exist :) ) so a shift in thinking would have affected the game. Without those who were running the game in place, anyone going forward with an I24 would have to be particularly aware of this... That's really my whole argument.
If there was a plan, does APR know of it and its details long term?.... that sounds like awful English, but I think it's correct.
First: The CoH Hail Mary / Legacy team initiated negotiations to buy the IP, intellectual property from NCSoft. The current understanding is that NCSoft countered by adding a binary copy of CoX I-23. There is NO indication that NCSoft has made any inclusion of the characters and CoX player data in the deal. For one, strictly speaking they legally cannot. The players in their agreement with NCSoft were afforded privacy in their agreement so NCSoft would not sell that data to third parties interested in soliciting the player base for MMO related marketing.
Second: Even if NCSoft were so inclined as to reinterpret the rules, and look the other way to bring player data to the deal, it is my opinion, the would want to do this in one big file transfer and not parcel out individual player legacy data requests. Finding individual player data records would be far more difficult than retrieving Lois Lerner's famous lost email.
Third: Just as surely as Statesman's character and story belong to NCSoft and that IP. Joe's Captain Underpants was never his to profit on. Joe could write fan-fiction on certain fan websites, but licenses for T-shirts, novels, songs, or movies with Captain Underpants are strictly against the user's player agreement with NCSoft. Those characters were NEVER yours, even realizing how much you enjoyed the experience with your previous characters. This is why Marvel sued NCSoft or Cryptic, not the players regarding the unlicensed likenesses of the eleventy-seven Wolverine inspired characters running around belonged to CoH.
I do not intend this to be a criticism on the abilities of the Legacy team or Atlas Park Revival team. This is probably the biggest rant outside of the vintage CoH posts regarding defenders.
I feel I must share some things about the turn of events regarding a deal that is NOT even completed yet. Fellow CoX players, there seems to be some rampant misinformation still swirling around...
1 transferring the client data in bulk to a different company would require consent. That would require a working account architecture for users to give it. Both not going to happen
2 it is explicitly mentioned that user data is not included
3. Pointing out the silliness of the users perceived ownership of their characters when making them in coh explicitly gave it away
This I24 rant is really getting far from reality.
1 transferring the client data in bulk to a different company would require consent. That would require a working account architecture for users to give it. Both not going to happen
3. Pointing out the silliness of the users perceived ownership of their characters when making them in coh explicitly gave it away
Shard - I don't understand your point: I cannot think of any scenario - when CoH was live or going forward - where this was not done without an opt in
My cheeky point about Lois Lerner's emails is that they DO exist and the player character data DOES exist but at what cost to the Legacy team to negotiate its release?
My point about characters is that Captain Underpants ALWAYS belonged to NCSoft never to Joe. How do you expect to get back what was never yours?
It's pretty much face value.
As I said for the other fellow speaking for you - I cannot comment on the state of the various EULAs or their legal enforcability, but this kind of comment is a bit dickish.
I feel the need to make three point given some of the topics in the last 20-30 or so posts:
#1. Why is anybody actually fretting about what they're not going to have or what other people couldn't but hypothetically could have when we still don't even know if we're actually going to get to play COH ever again yet? Yes, there's room for optimism but there's no guarantees and if karma just happens to be spiteful, you're asking for it.
#2. The only way anyone's getting their level 50s back is if everybody gets their data back, which also is not going to !@#$ing happen. Speaking as somebody who was relatively late to the game, it's really not all that horrendously unfun to level your way through it. I restarted my favorite character on two different servers just so I could play with friends.
#3. The character creator is awesome. Why would anyone complain about having to reimagine old characters with it?
But the good news is: "Holy crap, we might actually get to play COH again!" So stop looking for !@#$ to complain about until we know what we have, because it might still be a two-year wait before we even get to play something remotely similar. I personally couldn't care less if I'm a level 1 in a sea of level 50s. It didn't stop the game from being fun my first and last 100 or so times.
I don't quite understand the intense feeling of entitlement that folks are claiming over their level 50s. We as a community have lacked any CoH fix for almost 2 years. There is a chance and I mean IF the Legacy deal goes through, that we could play our characters from the creation to however long the servers last again. Isn't that what we originally enjoyed? Isn't playing I-23 or beta I-24 what we crave? All power to the Atlas Park Revival, but this clamor over what we may get in the Legacy deal is unwarranted.
The EULA between NCSoft and the player did not make your original characters the property of NCSoft. Instead, it granted NCSoft a perpetual license to use your characters (for marketing purposes and so forth), while you still kept the rights to use them elsewhere - such as in Champions Online or a movie. Of course, you couldn't copy NCSoft's game assets (esp. costume pieces) into your movie or Champions, so you'd need to use CO's costumes when playing CO or the original artwork from your movie studio's graphics team to display your character in that movie.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/EULA/September_2011
Section 6, paragraph (b), second sentence and beyond applies to your original characters. The first sentence applies to your non-original characters, such as a Statesman clone (which NCSoft owned but permitted you to use in-game) or "Wulverin3" with an X-Men costume (which they did not allow, due to Marvel's ownership).
First I think you need to correctly interpret the difference between desire and entitlement. There are people like myself who desire to have their character data restored if at all possible. Some like myself are willing to pay a fee if that actually helps offset the cost IF it were even available. Thats not entitlement..
There is also the issue that the servers COULD be shut down again.. that issue will need to be addressed. How long will maintenance mode last should it be acquired.. two years ?? four years ??
Is what you crave what I, or anyone else might crave.. not necessarily.. we all played City of Heroes.. but many for various different reasons and what you see as integral and important may not have the same meaning to another..
The clamor of what we may or many not get is certainly warranted because is the community and all its varying opinions, wants, needs and desires that make up the game... not simply the assets. Its the community that raised money for CoT for MWM to get the development tools they needed.. so the community has a right to express its opinion.. prayerfully in a respectful manner..
There is also the issue that the servers COULD be shut down again.. that issue will need to be addressed. How long will maintenance mode last should it be acquired.. two years ?? four years ??
First I think you need to correctly interpret the difference between desire and entitlement. There are people like myself who desire to have their character data restored if at all possible. Some like myself are willing to pay a fee if that actually helps offset the cost IF it were even available. Thats not entitlement..
There is also the issue that the servers COULD be shut down again.. that issue will need to be addressed. How long will maintenance mode last should it be acquired.. two years ?? four years ??
Is what you crave what I, or anyone else might crave.. not necessarily.. we all played City of Heroes.. but many for various different reasons and what you see as integral and important may not have the same meaning to another..
The clamor of what we may or many not get is certainly warranted because is the community and all its varying opinions, wants, needs and desires that make up the game... not simply the assets. Its the community that raised money for CoT for MWM to get the development tools they needed.. so the community has a right to express its opinion.. prayerfully in a respectful manner..
I don't think pinballdave is trying to argue that people don't have a right to express their opinion - if you want to voice a 'wishlist' of some kind, then go for it. *shrugs* I think he was merely expressing his OWN opinion that people getting their knickers in a twist about wanting this or wanting that will in no way have ANY effect on what the deal will or will not finally come to with NCSoft, should they even decide to humor the APR & Legacy teams with their efforts. I think at this point, the team knows what would obviously be the ideal for the COH community- which, of course, would be all of us retaining our character and account information and starting back up right where we left off.
...But unfortunately, the chances of that becoming the reality of our situation is becoming less and less. It's looking like that will NOT be happening, unless some major changes are made through the deals and negotiations (which still could happen, of course). So if you want to voice your complaints and stick to your montra of "Well it won't be the same, this is unfair, I still hate NCSoft..." yadda yadda, then go for it. You have ever right to do that (and I'm not saying you're doing that specifically, HEATSTROKE). But the rest of us will remain patient and optimistic, continue to fight and be grateful, and see how the cards unfold knowing that the people behind these efforts are doing their best to get our game back.
Step 1: get the game back.
I can think of two obvious possible reasons for this.
One, the devs knew something was up and the game was getting close to closing. This would have been a push for new players to save the game.
Two, the devs were settling the game with an eye to the future issues. As in, they had something planned which would have included much harder content.
If there was a plan, does APR know of it and its details long term?.... that sounds like awful English, but I think it's correct.
Indeed I am optimistic, more than I was a month ago even. I think I did say in my rant "All power to Atlas Park Revival" that's where we can get the omissions, bells, and whistles. :)
In practical terms, it really only needs to last until until APR (CoH 1.5) comes online. There is no reason to run it beyond that as all the new content with be on APR. So no one will need the legacy server.
We're almost there! ;D
Bells, Whistles, increased Aggo Caps, and a Wombat Master AT.
NOTE: I might be lying.
This brings me back to my concern.. I make new characters.. APR goes up.. if I cant switch them over.. then why build them up again on CoH Legacy ??
I24 was essentially complete. It was on the test server for a month prior to the announcement. Positron has said it was a week away from release. The other powersets that are visable in ICON were not intended for I24.
And yes, it would created a DPS and survivability increase for ranged characters. That was the whole purpose, because they were significantly inferior to melee and control characters. And you are correct, they intended to up the difficulty of future content.
For the chance to play again! And with a bit of hope that they will go over to 1.5. No reason to worry or feel futility, instead, just look forward with hope and be happy to play again!
We're almost there! ;D
Hardly. My blaster kicked ass like it was his career. Different classes were good at different things. Sure a stalker could kill an elite boss faster then me. But I could kill the rest of the trash and groups in half the time it would take them to do it. They were not inferior, if you wanted to play a single target character with naturally high defenses then you play a melee character. If you want more AoE damage and to be the focused DPS. Play a ranged character. It is like that in every game. My blaster could do anything a melee character could do in CoH.the datamined numbers didnt agree with you. a scrapper could take on half of some maps by himself and not slow down...try that on a blaster and you better have wakies. yet they both had same job..DPS. your feeling doesnt make the math not true.
the datamined numbers didnt agree with you. a scrapper could take on half of some maps by himself and not slow down...try that on a blaster and you better have wakies. yet they both had same job..DPS. your feeling doesnt make the math not true.
You can see it if you pull up icon beta and look around. (I don't think the icon mod actually put in damage amounts, but I could be wrong).
It seems to me that these "fixes" that were to be introduced in I24 were a bit odd. So many changes (that had been back burnered for years) in one issue?
I can think of two obvious possible reasons for this.
One, the devs knew something was up and the game was getting close to closing. This would have been a push for new players to save the game.
Two, the devs were settling the game with an eye to the future issues. As in, they had something planned which would have included much harder content.
When you start looking at the numbers, there was a huuuge increase in DPS on the way for blasters, defenders and corrupters.
Did this "balance" need to take place for those ATs because they were so inferior to the melee and control characters? I'm not convinced of that.
I was actually speaking specifically to the damage numbers of corrupters I can see in Icon Beta. They are out of whack with the blaster versions. As in dual pistol corrupter damage was higher than dual pistol blaster damage. That kind of thing.
Bells, Whistles, increased Aggo Caps, and a Wombat Master AT.
NOTE: I might be lying.
More press. It's gettin' back to where we need a "Thank the media" thread, again. :)
http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/09/02/city-of-heroes-spiritual-successor-could-become-an-official-resurrection/?fb_action_ids=812603425445864&fb_action_types=og.likes
Sentinel files are off the table, no one will be able to use them so it's not even an issue. No reason to argue or get upset about it.
what was not done without an opt in?
Dickish or not the TRUTH hurts! The characters were NEVER yours.
Some of us with 8 years of time and energy invested in our badge characters may disagree that there's "no reason" to get upset about losing all of that. Just sayin'.
Some of us with 8 years of time and energy invested in our badge characters may disagree that there's "no reason" to get upset about losing all of that. Just sayin'.
I24 was essentially complete. It was on the test server for a month prior to the announcement. Positron has said it was a week away from release. The other powersets that are visable in ICON were not intended for I24.
And yes, it would created a DPS and survivability increase for ranged characters. That was the whole purpose, because they were significantly inferior to melee and control characters. And you are correct, they intended to up the difficulty of future content.
For one, strictly speaking they legally cannot. The players in their agreement with NCSoft were afforded privacy in their agreement so NCSoft would not sell that data to third parties interested in soliciting the player base for MMO related marketing.
It is all lost now. It's not on the table for negotiation. Yes, I want all my toons back, my bases, badges and loot, but the simple fact is that we are not likely to see any of it ever again.
So instead, look forward to getting the game back! Seriously, if loosing all your loot hurts so much that you don't wanna come back, well you don't have too. Bottom line is, getting upset isn't gonna help you any and may just make you bitter. Be happy that we are probably getting our game back, and if anything else comes along, it's gravy, but just don't expect or demand it.
We're almost there! ;D
It is all lost now. It's not on the table for negotiation. Yes, I want all my toons back, my bases, badges and loot, but the simple fact is that we are not likely to see any of it ever again.
So instead, look forward to getting the game back! Seriously, if loosing all your loot hurts so much that you don't wanna come back, well you don't have too. Bottom line is, getting upset isn't gonna help you any and may just make you bitter. Be happy that we are probably getting our game back, and if anything else comes along, it's gravy, but just don't expect or demand it.
Legal protection for privacy is not nearly as extensive as many people think. In fact, it's pretty damn near nonexistent outside of medical and education records.
I'd also like to remind everyone that Champions Online changed owners with all character data and most account information intact. Twice.
the datamined numbers didnt agree with you. a scrapper could take on half of some maps by himself and not slow down...try that on a blaster and you better have wakies. yet they both had same job..DPS. your feeling doesnt make the math not true.
True, but it was the same developers all through, and the game didn't go down and wind up in storage (as account/pmt/contact/email info became passe) for two years in between. ;)
You go get any scrapper you want.. and Ill get my Rad/Fire blaster that plays 90% of the time in melee.. not only would you be shocked and amazed.. you might even be embarrassed...
My blaster soloed on X8+2. I could clear a whole map by my self too without slowing down. And solo AV's, and Solo TF's.
Feeling has nothing to do with it. I am going by experience.
Bells, Whistles, increased Aggo Caps, and a Wombat Master AT.Wombat Master, eh? So a mix Wombat Armor (you cover yourself in wombats), Wombat Assault (you use wombats like a cestus and have a wombat firing cannon, and Wombat Summoning (you... uh... summon wombats. Obviously.)? Maybe even the Wombat Travel pool. 8)
NOTE: I might be lying.
And I watched fully IO'd scrappers doing the same x8+3 and x8+4 all the time.
You go get any scrapper you want.. and Ill get my Rad/Fire blaster that plays 90% of the time in melee.. not only would you be shocked and amazed.. you might even be embarrassed...
the game wasnt balanced against fully IO'd toons. It was balanced against regular 50's with so's. And I watched fully IO'd scrappers doing the same x8+3 and x8+4 all the time. but with everyone at lvl 50 so build, blasters were way behind.
Its true I could never get to +3 or +4 the way some scrappers could. Perhaps the changes in I24 would have changed that. And yes its true that even a top notch blaster fell behind a top notch scrapper. But any character who didn't use IO's and sets and then complained that things were underpowered or out of balance is because they were using, in my opinion, unfinished characters. The IO's and sets were given to us for a reason, they could drastically improve your character. It's not the games fault or the slightly unbalanced mechanics of the game if you decide not to use the tools given to you.they had to make sure people could level up a toon. I had 34 50's that could farm stuff up for my lowbies...but I do remember being a lvl 4 energy/fire blaster and having some one open a trade window for me and give me 50k inf..It was like being given the keys to the city........
I am not saying you had to IO or use sets to have fun before people say "Not all of us like to do that"
I am saying you can't expect to be on par with the people that do. I found myself barely falling behind good scrappers.
I never played characters with SO's once IO's were out. So I can't say how balanced or unbalanced the game play was for them. I can however say, my blaster was one hell of a force to be reckoned with. And I, subjectively speaking, never felt underpowered. I personally felt the I24 changes would make him slighty overpowered. (Not that I wasn't stoked for them)
I've seen you post this a few places, but I have no idea what you think you're seeing. As someone who was watching every patch as it came out to do detailed comparison against the previous in order to find any undocumented changes, if Corruptors had been significantly altered I think I would have noticed. Their attack set numbers were mostly untouched from I23 to I24, other than fixing Scourge damage in a couple places where it was calculated wrong.
If you're looking at the in-game power info "real numbers" displays, those have always been hit or miss for whether or not they work correctly. They tended to be a bit buggy and get confused by special mechanics like Swap Ammo or Corruptor Scourge. Check City of Data instead, it was loaded with the final I24 beta build shortly before the shutdown.
You must not be looking at the same numbers I am. When I compare the I23 data to the I24 data, the only significant changes I see are:...
Three, they were addressing long-standing disparity issues, many of which were created by melee power creep. As in, melee ATs have gotten many buffs over the years bringing their damage to substantially higher levels than originally possible, not to mention new and clearly overpowered sets like Titan Weapons and Shield Defense.
(and I'm saying this as someone whose two favorite ATs were blasters and controllers. Melee types with half their powers being passive bored me to tears. Blasters could survive, but required much, much more skill and had to stop doing damage to do things like abuse LoS and the AI)
One of the reasons I loved PB's so much. It just wasn't a case of just pressing 1-2-3-4 repetitively... You had to actually PLAY the char, shift tactics constantly, adjust your role as the situation demanded. It actually took skill and concentration.
My blaster soloed on X8+2. I could clear a whole map by my self too without slowing down. And solo AV's, and Solo TF's.
Feeling has nothing to do with it. I am going by experience.
You go get any scrapper you want.. and Ill get my Rad/Fire blaster that plays 90% of the time in melee.. not only would you be shocked and amazed.. you might even be embarrassed...
This is surprising news to me, indeed. I stand corrected. Is that an MMO industry standard?
I personally felt the I24 changes would make him slighty overpowered. (Not that I wasn't stoked for them)
Its more an issue of US copyright law. US copyright law does not allow someone to assert authorship rights over something you make, except in only a few very specific circumstances, the largest of which is work for hire (where I hire you to make something for me, and demand the copyright of that work be assigned to me as a part of contracting that work). Its illegal for someone to attempt to assert blanket ownership of any work you make otherwise, so MMO operators in the US cannot really say "we own your characters." It would be an illegal, and therefore unenforceable contract.i thought i recalled the EULA for DCU Online saying they get sole ownership of any characters/creative works you use in their game or forums to the extent that you own it. Basically you automatically transfer all rights to DC/Sony by using it in the game or forums. It might not be technically legal, much like other companies' non-disparagement clauses, but frequently having lawyers trumps being in the right if the person in the right can't afford a protracted legal battle.
As for melee power creep, the I24 ranged changes just provides more scope creep as a whole. This is why I was thinking that the reason would have been one or both of those I provided and not necessarily just to redress past grievances.
i thought i recalled the EULA for DCU Online saying they get sole ownership of any characters/creative works you use in their game or forums to the extent that you own it. Basically you automatically transfer all rights to DC/Sony by using it in the game or forums. It might not be technically legal, much like other companies' non-disparagement clauses, but frequently having lawyers trumps being in the right if the person in the right can't afford a protracted legal battle.
Now that Matt's out of the picture you could also add Carnies/Clowns as a Mastermind set. ;D
I always wanted a Clowns MM set. Can you imagine anything more evil?
When summoned they could all drive up in one little car and climb out one at a time.
Squirting acid flower attack. Confetti bucket confuse attack. One of the little red rubber bulb brass horns used in a sonic attack. Giant mallet. Little ankle biting dogs, it all works!
Just too much fun to be had!
Edited to add schtuff!
We're almost there! ;D
One thing I have to admit that I've really missed; posts by Arcana.
There's just something reassuringly solid about them. Like you could throw them and use them to take down a charging bull rhino with their weight. And I mean that in a good way!
+4x8 was the gold standard for farming with IOd brutes, scrappers, and some controllers. The classes with high resists especially could reach ridiculous levels of survivability when also softcapped.
+2x8 is significantly easier and not even in the same league. Not bad for a blaster though.
(and I'm saying this as someone whose two favorite ATs were blasters and controllers. Melee types with half their powers being passive bored me to tears. Blasters could survive, but required much, much more skill and had to stop doing damage to do things like abuse LoS and the AI)
You know, if we do ever get CoX back, my very first 50 was a katana scrapper, and I don't think a level went by where I didn't wish I had rolled broadsword. Hey, now I can finally make Lemon Slice a broadsword scrapper without feeling like I'm behind all my family and friends in levels, haha. ;D
There's just something reassuringly solid about them. Like you could throw them and use them to take down a charging bull rhino with their weight. And I mean that in a good way!
Err.. I played part-time since CoV and full time once GR came out. ( V1GIL4NT3 4 LYF!! )
There's a bad way?
Lots of players had these anecdotes. They are all but irrelevant to the issue of game balance. Fascinating and entertaining they might be to other players and the devs, they played exactly zero role in creating or balancing powersets or critter capabilities.
There's a bad way?
Bells, Whistles, increased Aggo Caps, and a Wombat Master AT.
NOTE: I might be lying.
"I am Wombatman..."
There was no time in the existence of the game that any archetype wasn't overpowered relative to the game's balance standard for players with sufficient dedication to maximal slotting and optimal gameplay.
The game wasn't designed to be balanced around maximal slotting and optimal gameplay. It was designed around the median player performance, as determined by watching all the players who played the game and measuring their median performance. Under that metric, there was never a single moment in the existence of the game where blasters as an archetype were not severely underperforming all other archetypes. We're talking 25%-50% underperformance.
That's not 25%-50% under the other archetypes. That's 25%-50% under the median performance: many archetypes were over the median performance, which made the gap between blasters and the higher performing archetypes (i.e. scrappers) higher than that. The single largest contributor to this underperformance was that blasters were dying at a far higher rate than all other archetypes. Solo, teamed, low level, intermediate level, high level, max level. In all types of content. The numbers say that if you think you were doing well on a blaster, there were ten players doing just as well on every other archetype and a hundred players doing vastly worse on blasters. If you didn't see this, your experience was not representative of the playerbase as a whole.
The truth is, nobody cares about min/maxers or the power gaming elite, nor should they. The developers didn't need to care about us. We could always excel under any circumstances. The devs cared about the typical player, because those were the ones that kept the lights on. They represented the bulk of the players, the bulk of the playing time, and the bulk of the subscription revenue. They needed the game to present a roughly level playing field to them, and that's ultimately where the devs spent most of their energy. And I would have eviscerated them if they hadn't.
My calculations suggested that in broad strokes, I24 blasters when played by the average player would probably be in the general vicinity of I23 median performance in solo play during leveling conditions. Slightly under on average, but close enough. My worry was that the collateral buffs on archetypes like defenders and corruptors would increase the median performance enough to where blasters would fall below the median again. But I think at least for the average player, blasters would start to become competitive with scrappers as offensively focused characters.
The people already farming +2x8 with blasters? The I24 buffs would have less of an impact on them relative to average players in most cases, because those players were already reaching saturation levels of power that small to moderate buffs have more difficulty improving. And if they did, small price to pay to improve things for the other 95% of players. The same thing happened with the invention system. It let the 5% become far more powerful, but it also lifted most of the other 95% to moderate levels of performance far more consistent with the newer balance standard for players post-I5 (particularly when it came to soloing).
and my arch/mm was really the only blaster I had that didn't struggle on this difficulty.
My first character was an Electric/Electric Blaster. Regardless of what powers I took and how I slotted him (and even after I finally managed to get him to 50+1 - the game closed before I could get him any further), he was the weakest character I had, in terms of both damage output and survivability. Even playing him on the Beta server for a while (which included a respec to give him powers from Sorcery) was only a marginal improvement. He could barely handle x1/+0, and by the end I had him at x1/-1 (with Bosses turned off).
And, again, it's not like he was on SOs. I had loads of IO sets, and my main attacks were all six-slotted. I had, at some points, Tough and Weave and Charged Armor. But nothing helped. He was weak and fragile regardless of what I did. He was so terrible that I never made another Blaster ever again.
So maybe one purpled-out Rad/Fire was decent, but I don't think that it means Blasters as a whole were decent.
The EULA between NCSoft and the player did not make your original characters the property of NCSoft. Instead, it granted NCSoft a perpetual license to use your characters (for marketing purposes and so forth), while you still kept the rights to use them elsewhere - such as in Champions Online or a movie. Of course, you couldn't copy NCSoft's game assets (esp. costume pieces) into your movie or Champions, so you'd need to use CO's costumes when playing CO or the original artwork from your movie studio's graphics team to display your character in that movie.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/EULA/September_2011
Section 6, paragraph (b), second sentence and beyond applies to your original characters. The first sentence applies to your non-original characters, such as a Statesman clone (which NCSoft owned but permitted you to use in-game) or "Wulverin3" with an X-Men costume (which they did not allow, due to Marvel's ownership).
6. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY
(a) You acknowledge, and further agree, that You have no IP right related to any Service, Content, Software, or any combination of the foregoing or parts thereof except the limited license provided in Section 2 above.
(b) You acknowledge, and further agree, that You have no IP right related to any Account ID, any NCsoft Message Board ID, any communication or information on any NCsoft Message Board provided by You or anyone else, any information, feedback or communication related to the Game, any Character ID or characteristics related to a Character ID, any combination of the foregoing or parts thereof, or any combination of the foregoing with any Service, Content, Software, or parts thereof. To the extent You may claim any such IP right(s), You hereby grant NCsoft a worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, sub-licensable, perpetual and irrevocable license and full authorization to exercise all rights of any kind or nature associated with such IP right(s), and all ancillary and subsidiary rights thereto, in any languages and media now known or not currently known. Your license to NCsoft includes, but is not limited to, all necessary trademark licenses, all copyright licenses needed to reproduce, display, publicly perform, distribute and prepare derivative works of any such IP right, and all patent licenses needed to make, have made or otherwise transfer, use, offer to sell, sell, export and import related to such IP right(s). In addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, You further agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless NCsoft with respect to any claim by third-parties that any such license to any such IP right(s) misappropriates, violates or infringes any third-party IP right or other proprietary right.
The game wasn't designed to be balanced around maximal slotting and optimal gameplay. It was designed around the median player performance, as determined by watching all the players who played the game and measuring their median performance. Under that metric, there was never a single moment in the existence of the game where blasters as an archetype were not severely underperforming all other archetypes. We're talking 25%-50% underperformance.
That's not 25%-50% under the other archetypes. That's 25%-50% under the median performance: many archetypes were over the median performance, which made the gap between blasters and the higher performing archetypes (i.e. scrappers) higher than that. The single largest contributor to this underperformance was that blasters were dying at a far higher rate than all other archetypes. Solo, teamed, low level, intermediate level, high level, max level. In all types of content. The numbers say that if you think you were doing well on a blaster, there were ten players doing just as well on every other archetype and a hundred players doing vastly worse on blasters. If you didn't see this, your experience was not representative of the playerbase as a whole.
+4x8 was the gold standard for farming with IOd brutes, scrappers, and some controllers. The classes with high resists especially could reach ridiculous levels of survivability when also softcapped.
+2x8 is significantly easier and not even in the same league. Not bad for a blaster though.
(and I'm saying this as someone whose two favorite ATs were blasters and controllers. Melee types with half their powers being passive bored me to tears. Blasters could survive, but required much, much more skill and had to stop doing damage to do things like abuse LoS and the AI)
This makes me feel a lot better at my many, many failed attempts at playing a Blaster. I just couldn't ever get them off the ground.
I sort of went with it by creating Captain Incompetent, an electric blaster. When he would faceplant I'd start commenting on the floor. "This tastes like Johnson's Wax!" or "I do believe this is Scotchgard carpet!" Sometimes its fun to embrace the suck.
I sort of went with it by creating Captain Incompetent, an electric blaster. When he would faceplant I'd start commenting on the floor. "This tastes like Johnson's Wax!" or "I do believe this is Scotchgard carpet!" Sometimes its fun to embrace the suck.
My first character was an Electric/Electric Blaster. Regardless of what powers I took and how I slotted him (and even after I finally managed to get him to 50+1 - the game closed before I could get him any further), he was the weakest character I had, in terms of both damage output and survivability. Even playing him on the Beta server for a while (which included a respec to give him powers from Sorcery) was only a marginal improvement. He could barely handle x1/+0, and by the end I had him at x1/-1 (with Bosses turned off).Although I don't disagree with your sentiment, not being able to handle x1/+0 on a 50+1 IO'd Elec^3 Blaster (after the I24 buffs) is...kinda bad. I always felt weak on my Elec^3, but I could certainly handle more than x1/+0 (I never got the chance to try him on I24 Beta :'().
And, again, it's not like he was on SOs. I had loads of IO sets, and my main attacks were all six-slotted. I had, at some points, Tough and Weave and Charged Armor. But nothing helped. He was weak and fragile regardless of what I did. He was so terrible that I never made another Blaster ever again.
So maybe one purpled-out Rad/Fire was decent, but I don't think that it means Blasters as a whole were decent.
There's a reason that a lot of people liked playing CoH, a reason that even the original developers achieved by accident and didn't fully understand. The more you tinker, the more you risk accidentally removing that reason.
Hey guys,
Have you seen the latest from Angelus Animi?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTWXcAsMHo
Hey guys,
Have you seen the latest from Angelus Animi?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTWXcAsMHo
Fantastic! Angelus Animi, your videos are enjoyed by our whole family, and make us feel much closer to the game. Now can you make a Halloween video? ;)
I love this video so much! I laughed out loud when I saw Faathim dancing outside the Pocket D window. ;D
Although I don't disagree with your sentiment, not being able to handle x1/+0 on a 50+1 IO'd Elec^3 Blaster (after the I24 buffs) is...kinda bad. I always felt weak on my Elec^3, but I could certainly handle more than x1/+0 (I never got the chance to try him on I24 Beta :'().
On the other side of the coin, I had a elec^3 blaster I was running +1 or +2/x8 even before becoming incarnate. And my IO build, I'd call a bit haphazard. I was lazy when IOs came out so my build was "what sort of sets can I fit in for some decent bonuses without requiring me to respec. And then there's also I tend to lean more towards concept over build. So I did things like every attack that could take it, I put in the stun proc from the end mod set (can't remember the name off hand). And with elec^3 that's almost every single attack :)
I remember running in a SG team, and after running a few missions, someone wanted to see what a farm mission was like since they hadn't done one before. One person had one, so we went in, the majority the team never having experienced one before. Lots of death. I was on a low level def at the time (not even able to slot DOs yet) I said I was going to bring on some who was a bit more durable. Came back with my elec blaster. First comment I saw when I reentered the mission' "You wanted someone more durable and you got a blaster?"
Short circuit + power sink + ball lightning, everything was down to brawl. After mowing through a few groups, I got the comment "OK, you weren't kidding about the more durable thing"
It is all anecdotal, everyone has a story of where they couldn't do something with one type of character, followed by someone who says they were a killing machine, a lot comes down to personal okay style and interest. Like, I never could get the hang of playing a Kheld. Which of course means, someone will come along saying something like "I soloed the AVs in the STF with my PB!" :)
On the other side of the coin, I had a elec^3 blaster I was running +1 or +2/x8 even before becoming incarnate. And my IO build, I'd call a bit haphazard. I was lazy when IOs came out so my build was "what sort of sets can I fit in for some decent bonuses without requiring me to respec. And then there's also I tend to lean more towards concept over build. So I did things like every attack that could take it, I put in the stun proc from the end mod set (can't remember the name off hand). And with elec^3 that's almost every single attack :)
I remember running in a SG team, and after running a few missions, someone wanted to see what a farm mission was like since they hadn't done one before. One person had one, so we went in, the majority the team never having experienced one before. Lots of death. I was on a low level def at the time (not even able to slot DOs yet) I said I was going to bring on some who was a bit more durable. Came back with my elec blaster. First comment I saw when I reentered the mission' "You wanted someone more durable and you got a blaster?"
Short circuit + power sink + ball lightning, everything was down to brawl. After mowing through a few groups, I got the comment "OK, you weren't kidding about the more durable thing"
It is all anecdotal, everyone has a story of where they couldn't do something with one type of character, followed by someone who says they were a killing machine, a lot comes down to personal okay style and interest. Like, I never could get the hang of playing a Kheld. Which of course means, someone will come along saying something like "I soloed the AVs in the STF with my PB!" :)
Hey guys,
Have you seen the latest from Angelus Animi?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTWXcAsMHo
Funny!
Hey guys,
Have you seen the latest from Angelus Animi?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTWXcAsMHo
Hey guys,
Have you seen the latest from Angelus Animi?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTWXcAsMHo
On the other side of the coin, I had a elec^3 blaster I was running +1 or +2/x8 even before becoming incarnate. And my IO build, I'd call a bit haphazard. I was lazy when IOs came out so my build was "what sort of sets can I fit in for some decent bonuses without requiring me to respec. And then there's also I tend to lean more towards concept over build. So I did things like every attack that could take it, I put in the stun proc from the end mod set (can't remember the name off hand). And with elec^3 that's almost every single attack :)
I remember running in a SG team, and after running a few missions, someone wanted to see what a farm mission was like since they hadn't done one before. One person had one, so we went in, the majority the team never having experienced one before. Lots of death. I was on a low level def at the time (not even able to slot DOs yet) I said I was going to bring on some who was a bit more durable. Came back with my elec blaster. First comment I saw when I reentered the mission' "You wanted someone more durable and you got a blaster?"
Short circuit + power sink + ball lightning, everything was down to brawl. After mowing through a few groups, I got the comment "OK, you weren't kidding about the more durable thing"
It is all anecdotal, everyone has a story of where they couldn't do something with one type of character, followed by someone who says they were a killing machine, a lot comes down to personal okay style and interest. Like, I never could get the hang of playing a Kheld. Which of course means, someone will come along saying something like "I soloed the AVs in the STF with my PB!" :)
you are not alone...
I tanked recluse on the stf with all towers up on a fire fire blaster..og course i was playing keep away but i was tanking
Joking or not, I would strongly caution against making arbitrary changes to core mechanics like aggro caps just because you think it might be "better" or have a personal opinion.
There's a reason that a lot of people liked playing CoH, a reason that even the original developers achieved by accident and didn't fully understand. The more you tinker, the more you risk accidentally removing that reason.
I really wish that the devs had put a ranged aoe immobilize power into the secondary powers for Blasters instead of the pbaoe powers. That would've at least kept the mobs using their ranged attacks against you. That would've allowed you to then have your ranged Def at least give you a fighting chance to stay alive vs using a pbaoe powers that made you have the mobs surround you and then pound you into a pulp and get a free hospital trip.
All you people are crazy.
A fully slotted RotP can do 650+ damage. So all you really need is to run into any crowd, nuke, faceplant, RotP.
Embrace your true nature blasters. :)
...Seriously, what a flipping epic video. I can't stop watching these, lol. Do we know if this Angelus player has lurked around these forums some? I want to give them an e-shake. Well done. Well done indeed.
I actually had a Fire/Fire Blaster that would do this quite regularly... It was a fun--albeit very different--sort of playstyle. It certainly amused my teammates! lol
Hey guys,
Have you seen the latest from Angelus Animi?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTWXcAsMHo
So. . .
If Coke can bring back Surge on Amazon as an exclusive after 12 years. . .
Surely NCSoft can let our gang get City back on the Internet after 2. :)
All you people are crazy.Ummm , I was talking about Blasters Secondary Powers not Ancillary Powers. And yes RotP was an awesome and fun power.
A fully slotted RotP can do 650+ damage. So all you really need is to run into any crowd, nuke, faceplant, RotP.
Embrace your true nature blasters. :)
So. . .
If Coke can bring back Surge on Amazon as an exclusive after 12 years. . .
Surely NCSoft can let our gang get City back on the Internet after 2. :)
I really wish that the devs had put a ranged aoe immobilize power into the secondary powers for Blasters instead of the pbaoe powers. That would've at least kept the mobs using their ranged attacks against you. That would've allowed you to then have your ranged Def at least give you a fighting chance to stay alive vs using a pbaoe powers that made you have the mobs surround you and then pound you into a pulp and get a free hospital trip.I should clarify. I was talking more about the tier 3/4 powers. I know on my Ice/Ice/Fire and my Elec/Elec/Elec I would of preferred Frostbite over Chilling Embrace @lvl10 and Lightning Cages over Lightning Field. Yes I know it treads a little on the trollers/doms but the blaster description from the 3 ring binder states that blasters have very good control powers and are second only to the Controllers if my memory serves me right.
We will now return to our regularly scheduled thread content. . .
I should clarify. I was talking more about the tier 3/4 powers. I know on my Ice/Ice/Fire and my Elec/Elec/Elec I would of preferred Frostbite over Chilling Embrace @lvl10 and Lightning Cages over Lightning Field. Yes I know it treads a little on the trollers/doms but the blaster description from the 3 ring binder states that blasters have very good control powers and are second only to the Controllers if my memory serves me right.Trollers and Doms, of course. But yes, a real CC would be nice, rather than just an immob (not that you can't make good use of an immob, but it's conditional) would be nice for a class that's supposed to have minor battlefield control to supplement their very good damage.
I dont get these people who made these blasters that constantly died at every turn.. I made plenty of blasters.. and I didnt die every 32 seconds and rarely did I build any defense into any of them.. in fact I only did it with one..
Ive always thought that many of the people who played blasters probably started playing as a scrapper or tank first.. then tried a blaster and played with the same scrapperlock mentality.. and died... a lot... and then went.. blasters suck.. I started playing with a blaster.. so I kind of learned.. who was dangerous to me and who I could take down quick.. and learned how to use other skills to limit my aggro and stay alive..
But even then I didnt die ALL the time..
Like, I never could get the hang of playing a Kheld. Which of course means, someone will come along saying something like "I soloed the AVs in the STF with my PB!" :)
I believe our regularly scheduled content is me answering people's questions, and other people arguing about Sentinel+/the character database.
And on the topic of questions...are we theeeeere yet?
YE-Wait...No.
I leveled basically every alt exactly like the first: buying what I could based on what I earned, farming nothing, PLing never, soloing and teaming in pick up teams when I could. As an experienced player, I could play anything and make it work without dying often, but every time I started to forget how difficult it was to play blasters, I could always roll a new one and be reminded. Its also difficult to play without doing things automatically that most players don't know or aren't skilled enough to do, that you do without thinking and makes the experience easier, that because you don't think about it you don't give enough credit for your survival either.
Just little things like the fact I was always moving when playing blasters and not just standing still and shooting from range contributed to my survival. True but virtually unknown fact about CoH: moving more than a certain amount would cause the critters to subtly alter how they chose which powers to use to attack. Running around in circles around a spawn could reduce incoming damage by as much as *half*. Sometimes, things you don't even realize are making the game easier are making it a lot easier. Beginners are not efficient inspiration users. They don't fire attacks efficiently. They do not manage endurance as well as veteran players do instinctively. They don't pace themselves well. They don't know when they are in over their heads, because it often happens fast. And very small differences in build decisions, like when to take attacks and when to take toggles, and when to take but not use a power until it can be slotted, can make a huge difference. Beginning players did not understand that sometimes you take a power but don't use it, because unslotted it wastes time and endurance and can actually kill you, but slotted it could be a huge benefit.
Also, people tend to remember what they want to remember, particularly when it comes to the leveling experience. They tend to forget how easy or hard things were, and mostly remember their final level 50 enhanced experience, and they assume they can extrapolate downward from there. Someone I knew in-game once told me a particular blaster combination was trivial to play. To prove it they leveled one to about 16ish, and proceeded to destroy a spawn with it. I told him that was great, now do it five times in a row. He was killed fighting the fourth. Its easy to kill one spawn. But if you end that fight with even slightly less than full health, sustaining that pace is impossible. Many players "tested" themselves in conditions that did not replicate actual gameplay, in terms of having to fight maybe 30 spawns in a mission in ten minutes all in a row. They assumed if they could defeat one strong spawn, they could repeat that task indefinitely. Not the case.
Sneaky, sneaky. Sounds like a might be happening but can't say anything type of answer, or I wish it was happening but everything is quiet right now. Don't know which one!
More like a teasing answer.
1) Wait.
2) Be patient.
3) Wait patiently.
4) If it comes from anyone but Downix, it's not information.
5) Keep waiting. Patiently.
I should clarify. I was talking more about the tier 3/4 powers. I know on my Ice/Ice/Fire and my Elec/Elec/Elec I would of preferred Frostbite over Chilling Embrace @lvl10 and Lightning Cages over Lightning Field. Yes I know it treads a little on the trollers/doms but the blaster description from the 3 ring binder states that blasters have very good control powers and are second only to the Controllers if my memory serves me right.
I can certainly understand if you started playing a Scrapper or Tank.. and then tried a blaster.. its an immediate shock.. and Level 35-45 feel like an eternity...
More like turbo sarcasm.
Ah...Yeah. Waiting. Lots of different kinds of waiting.
I'd make #2 something like...post on the Titan/APR/CoT/whatever forum a bunch. Um...It keeps everyone involved? -shrugs-
To be fair, I'd consider (I sound totally biased saying this, I'm aware.) anything coming from myself pretty safe information. Nate's information supersedes mine of course, but I get my information directly from him.
So... Maybe....
1) Nate
2) Myself/IronWolf
3)TonyV
4)Others
Fair enough: I was coming from the perspective that Nate is a direct part of the negotiations and that by definition any information from other sources is second-hand.
I am certainly in no way attempting to reduce your part in this, IG (nor Ironwolf's or Tony's, or anyone else for that matter). Believe me, I have every respect for what you have achieved with APR, and what Ironwolf did to get this process going, and Tony making the Titan Network the CoH community centre.
So, I respect and accept your revised priority of information. I was mostly just trying to be short and snappy.
True. Anything Nate says takes priority in regards to the negotiations. Being the guy in charge OF the negotiations kind technically makes him the most well informed.
It wasn't so much a concern of any lack for respect I may/may not have felt due. More...I wanted to make sure that if Ironwolf or I say something in regards to the negotiation...it doesn't get ignored by someone new, or someone who may have misunderstood your comment.
Also, if this is the worst English you've ever read...it is prolly because I am the most TIRED person on the planet right now. Seriously. Why am I even still awake?
Also, if this is the worst English you've ever read...it is prolly because I am the most TIRED person on the planet right now. Seriously. Why am I even still awake?It seems that you do not do much sleeping based on the times of your posts, which may appear kind of stalkerish of me but I really just pay attention to the posts of a few individuals on this forum. With that said, no need for a restraining order. :P
More like turbo sarcasm.
Ah...Yeah. Waiting. Lots of different kinds of waiting.
I'd make #2 something like...post on the Titan/APR/CoT/whatever forum a bunch. Um...It keeps everyone involved? -shrugs-
To be fair, I'd consider (I sound totally biased saying this, I'm aware.) anything coming from myself pretty safe information. Nate's information supersedes mine of course, but I get my information directly from him.
So... Maybe....
1) Nate
2) Myself/IronWolf
3)TonyV
4)Others
Words of wisdom.
The 'lightning in a bottle' captured nature of CoH's original development is true. So much so, Cryptic couldn't replicate the 'Golden Goose' with Champions.
The gods had spoken.
Azrael.
PS. As for blasters...a water blaster was sheer poetry. No end drop novas...rinse and repeat fast recharge...and water corkscrew healing DoT?
*Be still his heart...*a flutter.
...now all we needed was those insta snipes...and revisions to all the other blaster sets...
...imagine having deflection or insulation shields as epic choices?
No you say?
Only like the charmed lives Scrappers had...
I think that for me I started playing blasters when the game was young (2 months after launch). So I learned very early how to manage aggro... how much of a mob I could take on at once.. which foes mez and HOW they mez.. How to use range to my advantage.. how to break line of sight.. using hover to stay out of melee... how to pull... etc etc.. and then as blaster got small improvements.. and then Epic Pools and IO's they got easier to me..
I can certainly understand if you started playing a Scrapper or Tank.. and then tried a blaster.. its an immediate shock.. and Level 35-45 feel like an eternity...
Indeed, city of heroes had alot of it's best things on accident. The original developers definently never realized that, cryptic when they made CO really just did the same thing Ion storm did when they made deus ex IW: they never realised what made their original great game a hit(refering to deus ex). They listened to all the wrong people that had a very very narrow view of things. Then they never figured out or realized what city of heroes had, the devs that didn't touch CoX wouldn't have known that there were so many alternate playstyles.
I am just a regular poster now. I am spending time learning to make levels in UR4 and scraping paint/painting my house and getting ready to blow the doors off the little village we live in now at Halloween, I am preparing a smoke machine, green strobe lights and music/sound effects to come out of my houses cuppola!
Then we can bestow bounty to any kids who dare to visit!
I am actually finding UR4 is VERY easy to make levels in.
I am just a regular poster now. I am spending time learning to make levels in UR4 and scraping paint/painting my house and getting ready to blow the doors off the little village we live in now at Halloween, I am preparing a smoke machine, green strobe lights and music/sound effects to come out of my houses cuppola!that's cool :) are you still the middle man?
Then we can bestow bounty to any kids who dare to visit!
I am actually finding UR4 is VERY easy to make levels in.
GRRR, all this discussion about blasters makes me pine for good old Defiance, I wish it could be implemented in COH 1.5 instead of that ultra-lame "able to use T1 and T2 primary attacks while mezzed", old defiance was thousands of times more epicI disagree for me it made blasters playable again, I just wish the devs kept the old flares animation :(
that's cool :) are you still the middle man?
Speaking as an epileptic who's photosensitive, please be careful about the green strobe lights. Many children and parents don't know if strobes will trigger anything before it happens. That said, I hope you have a great time setting up for Halloween.
Nope, I am out of the loop and unless this one fails - happily so. If it fails then all hands on deck and we can try something else. I actually think this will work as NCSoft could have just walked away at any time. The fact they are showing interest and not losing the game files just the IP probably helps considerably. They have literally nothing to lose in this deal as the game pops back up same as when it shut and they get money. Win/Win for everyone. Then other groups can lease any IP they want to add to their own canon and it seems a fair deal.
The card game idea that Matt Miller was taling about might be one of those benefitting from this deal. Once the IP is open to be leased it will be fun to see what projects spawn from it.
I so want to fire up Mids right now and start planning, I just don't want to get my hopes up too strongly. Even still, I don't have an abundant amount of time to be playing MMO's this semester. ...I'll make it my Christmas wish.
Well it's both good and bad that you are out of the loop. Good that you can focus on other things, bad in that many of us are waiting with baited breath for news of our beloved game.
Here's hoping that NCSoft signs on the dotted line.
Legal protection for privacy is not nearly as extensive as many people think. In fact, it's pretty damn near nonexistent outside of medical and education records.If only. I work in healthcare IT, and when people say their medical records are private, I laugh and laugh and laugh...
I leveled basically every alt exactly like the first: buying what I could based on what I earned, farming nothing, PLing never, soloing and teaming in pick up teams when I could. As an experienced player, I could play anything and make it work without dying often, but every time I started to forget how difficult it was to play blasters, I could always roll a new one and be reminded. Its also difficult to play without doing things automatically that most players don't know or aren't skilled enough to do, that you do without thinking and makes the experience easier, that because you don't think about it you don't give enough credit for your survival either.
Just little things like the fact I was always moving when playing blasters and not just standing still and shooting from range contributed to my survival. True but virtually unknown fact about CoH: moving more than a certain amount would cause the critters to subtly alter how they chose which powers to use to attack. Running around in circles around a spawn could reduce incoming damage by as much as *half*. Sometimes, things you don't even realize are making the game easier are making it a lot easier. Beginners are not efficient inspiration users. They don't fire attacks efficiently. They do not manage endurance as well as veteran players do instinctively. They don't pace themselves well. They don't know when they are in over their heads, because it often happens fast. And very small differences in build decisions, like when to take attacks and when to take toggles, and when to take but not use a power until it can be slotted, can make a huge difference. Beginning players did not understand that sometimes you take a power but don't use it, because unslotted it wastes time and endurance and can actually kill you, but slotted it could be a huge benefit.
Also, people tend to remember what they want to remember, particularly when it comes to the leveling experience. They tend to forget how easy or hard things were, and mostly remember their final level 50 enhanced experience, and they assume they can extrapolate downward from there. Someone I knew in-game once told me a particular blaster combination was trivial to play. To prove it they leveled one to about 16ish, and proceeded to destroy a spawn with it. I told him that was great, now do it five times in a row. He was killed fighting the fourth. Its easy to kill one spawn. But if you end that fight with even slightly less than full health, sustaining that pace is impossible. Many players "tested" themselves in conditions that did not replicate actual gameplay, in terms of having to fight maybe 30 spawns in a mission in ten minutes all in a row. They assumed if they could defeat one strong spawn, they could repeat that task indefinitely. Not the case.
As an amusing side note: http://ts4news.com/post/94541924952/89-features-missing-from-the-sims-4As for TS4, you've got that right. TS3 has kept me company for 2 years without CoH. But I cancelled my pre-order of TS4 as soon as the advance reviews started coming in. They took everything I loved about TS3 and threw it away, taking several steps back in game evolution; people already call TS4 "The Sims 1.4" or "The Sims 2.5," and review after review keeps rolling in about what a disappointing game it is and how all the good features were taken out or heavily nerfed.
People notice when you start messing with things in their favorite game--or as in this case, taking away scores of things away that people liked in the "predecessor." Sometimes I think devs don't think we'll notice if they change "one little thing."
We do.
As for TS4, you've got that right. TS3 has kept me company for 2 years without CoH. But I cancelled my pre-order of TS4 as soon as the advance reviews started coming in. They took everything I loved about TS3 and threw it away, taking several steps back in game evolution; people already call TS4 "The Sims 1.4" or "The Sims 2.5," and review after review keeps rolling in about what a disappointing game it is and how all the good features were taken out or heavily nerfed.
A lesson for CoH successor devs indeed...
As for TS4, you've got that right. TS3 has kept me company for 2 years without CoH. But I cancelled my pre-order of TS4 as soon as the advance reviews started coming in. They took everything I loved about TS3 and threw it away, taking several steps back in game evolution; people already call TS4 "The Sims 1.4" or "The Sims 2.5," and review after review keeps rolling in about what a disappointing game it is and how all the good features were taken out or heavily nerfed.
A lesson for CoH successor devs indeed...
GRRR, all this discussion about blasters makes me pine for good old Defiance, I wish it could be implemented in COH 1.5 instead of that ultra-lame "able to use T1 and T2 primary attacks while mezzed", old defiance was thousands of times more epic
Okay... That sucks. But why did you buy an EA sequel in 2014? Was it EA's abuse or incompetence that won you over? It was Origin wasn't it? Origin is awesome.Oh, yeah, Origin is just so awesome I don't have words for it! ;)
Oh, yeah, Origin is just so awesome I don't have words for it! ;)
Honestly, the only time Origin comes into play for me with TS3 is when the game is updating. Aside from that, I don't allow it run or auto-start on my PC.
As for TS3, I was looking for something to fill the CoH void and Champions didn't look like it. At the time, TS3 Supernatural had just come out and that looked interesting to me. With that and TS3 World Adventures, I've had a chance to run around exotic settings, casting spells and having exotic adventures. A "poor man's substitute" for CoH, but it's kept me company, gaming-wise.
The old defiance I barely got any use out of it. The damage buff only really made any noticeable difference (at least to me) when you were almost dead, so one, maybe two shots while getting huge buffs then you died. Dying on a blaster is usually so quick, you only got a second or two use out of the buff. But using powers while held.... got use out of that all day long
Please redirect me if there's a better place to ask but I'm wondering if any of the Unreal 4 types have tried Daz 3D + Decimator to export characters to an Unreal Engine 4-friendly lower-poly count format. I like Daz enough that it feels like Decimator would be worth springing for if the results are decent. Makehuman's not bad, but I just don't have the blender skills to take it much further yet and it's not as exciting to try and get university mo-cap data working on a bunch of ken dolls with blender t-shirts that all have the same haircut.
I'm also wondering if it's likely Titan will be using Apex file formats for the clothing. I could see the physics on that stuff being potentially heavy for an MMO client for a general audience much of which is coming from a 10-year-old game, but zomg t3h costumez!!.
Nope, I am out of the loop and unless this one fails - happily so. If it fails then all hands on deck and we can try something else. I actually think this will work as NCSoft could have just walked away at any time. The fact they are showing interest and not losing the game files just the IP probably helps considerably. They have literally nothing to lose in this deal as the game pops back up same as when it shut and they get money. Win/Win for everyone. Then other groups can lease any IP they want to add to their own canon and it seems a fair deal.I understand this :) You are awesome to get the ball rolling again. I know I have said this many times but it needs to be said again thank you for everything you did :)
The card game idea that Matt Miller was taling about might be one of those benefitting from this deal. Once the IP is open to be leased it will be fun to see what projects spawn from it.
The majority of our assets are coming from either Houdini or Maya.
Apex clothing is a big part of the plan. The most recent art update showed a simple piece of apexable clothing. By our estimation, the "current average" video card at the time of launch will be more than capable of what we're expecting.
I was never implying I didn't want changes to Blasters. I just spent so much time on mine, from the day I started playing to the day I finished(shutdown), that I didn't realize that it might not be that simple for everyone else. So when I hear that they aren't good my first thought was "yes they are" but really what was being said is "it takes more effort to make them good then other classes"
GRRR, all this discussion about blasters makes me pine for good old Defiance, I wish it could be implemented in COH 1.5 instead of that ultra-lame "able to use T1 and T2 primary attacks while mezzed", old defiance was thousands of times more epic
It's not going to happen any faster or slower whether Nate or Ironwolf is the one telling us when it happens. And as for information leaking out early, I think we've all had enough of the trouble that comes of that (Facebook anyone?). We're better off not knowing anything more or hearing anything more until the deal is either finalized or permanently turned down.
It's not going to happen any faster or slower whether Nate or Ironwolf is the one telling us when it happens. And as for information leaking out early, I think we've all had enough of the trouble that comes of that (Facebook anyone?). We're better off not knowing anything more or hearing anything more until the deal is either finalized or permanently turned down.
GRRR, all this discussion about blasters makes me pine for good old Defiance, I wish it could be implemented in COH 1.5 instead of that ultra-lame "able to use T1 and T2 primary attacks while mezzed", old defiance was thousands of times more epicFor me, I'm the complete opposite. I hated the original defiance. But once the new one came out... wow, I liked playing blasters before, but that was a huge game changer for me. I absolutely loved being able to still shoot (or use things like power thrust) while held/mezzed
Who here remembers when blasters would fly up real hi in zones, drop and take max dmg (left with one health) before popping aim/build up and nuke? Used to MURDER crowds that way.
The majority of our assets are coming from either Houdini or Maya.
Apex clothing is a big part of the plan. The most recent art update showed a simple piece of apexable clothing. By our estimation, the "current average" video card at the time of launch will be more than capable of what we're expecting.
Please redirect me if there's a better place to ask but I'm wondering if any of the Unreal 4 types have tried Daz 3D + Decimator to export characters to an Unreal Engine 4-friendly lower-poly count format. I like Daz enough that it feels like Decimator would be worth springing for if the results are decent. Makehuman's not bad, but I just don't have the blender skills to take it much further yet and it's not as exciting to try and get university mo-cap data working on a bunch of ken dolls with blender t-shirts that all have the same haircut.
I'm also wondering if it's likely Titan will be using Apex file formats for the clothing. I could see the physics on that stuff being potentially heavy for an MMO client for a general audience much of which is coming from a 10-year-old game, but zomg t3h costumez!!.
Licensing out the IP could be nice. It would be great to see a finished City of Heroes RPG or more HeroClix figures, for instance, or maybe even a new comic book or a movie some day.
It's not going to happen any faster or slower whether Nate or Ironwolf is the one telling us when it happens. And as for information leaking out early, I think we've all had enough of the trouble that comes of that (Facebook anyone?). We're better off not knowing anything more or hearing anything more until the deal is either finalized or permanently turned down.
It seems that you do not do much sleeping based on the times of your posts, which may appear kind of stalkerish of me but I really just pay attention to the posts of a few individuals on this forum. With that said, no need for a restraining order. :PNot entirely, no. Often, I sleep at somewhat random times as well.
If only. I work in healthcare IT, and when people say their medical records are private, I laugh and laugh and laugh...
It would certainly be nice if that were true, however.
I always felt like they got the inherents for Blasters and Scrappers reversed. Defiance 1.0 was based on the idea that as your HP dropped, your damage went up, which doesn't work on a toon meant to be a glass cannon. The HP dropping meant you were pretty much already dead. Likewise, the idea that you landed a "critical" hit, to me, meant the mark of precision a marksman would have. Blasters should have been the ones having critical hits that did the occassional double ranged damage because it was a very accurate shot, while Scrappers, who were the ones often in the thick of things, had the will to defy the odds and fight even harder the more they were hurt. Granted, that's eventually what Brutes got, but it should have been Scrapper's inherent first. Brutes Fury should have been more like Dominators' inherent, where they built it over time and then could release it at will in a fit of rage. Interestingly, this would also have solved the problem brutes had of having to constantly fight non-stop in order to do decent damage, and would even have allowed us to have Ice Brutes. :-( It would also have made the change they made to brutes where you gain fury faster and lose it more slowly unnecessary.
For me, it should have gone:
Blasters: Inherent: Critical hits = Your expert control over your attacks sometime hit so perfectly they do more damage than expected. (extra damage when an attack "crits".)
Scrappers: Inherent: Defiance: = Your a fighter, inside and out, and the more pain you take, the more determined you are to dish it out. (as your HP drops, your damage increases.)
Brutes: Inherent: Fury: = As a brute, you are driven by rage. The more you fight, the deadlier you become. (This would have been changed to become more like domination, where you build rage while fighting (attacking or being damaged) and unleash when charged to give you a massive temporary boost in damage. Unlike domination, it could be released at any time, but the more charged it is the bigger than damage boost.)
Of course, the two archetypes I'm missing most are Corruptors and Controllers.
Corruptors: I have yet to find a game where debuffing is as useful as it was in CoH. The other three MMOs I've used really seem to make debuffing negligible, at best. Corruptors, with their ability to debuff and their ability to Scourge, were just plain FUN. The right combos made you feel perfectly useful on a team but also perfectly able to solo.
Controllers: I just haven't found another game that takes controlling seriously at all. They seem almost completely unique to City of Heroes, and they were a great balance for just about any team make up.
My favorites, in order, are:
Corruptors: Scourge FTW!
Brutes: The best of both worlds from a melee standpoint. Hulk Smash!
Controllers: Pets and holds and buffs, oh my!
Blasters: I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of all this dying.
Masterminds: All your base are belong to us!
Fortunatas: Now you see me, now you're dead.
Scrappers: I'll just tank these guys while the tank makes his way back from the hospital.
Stalkers: Nothing like killing a boss in one hit. Repeatedly.
Defenders: Honestly, Defenders rock. I know that. But I found them SOOO hard to solo.
Banes: Meh. Cool guns...but crab arms? No thank you.
Tankers: Boring. But survivable.
Warshades: So fun. Seriously. So fun.
Peacebringers: I hate knockback...but so fun.
The community was nice enough to give MWM the money to spend on nice tools in the form of the kickstarter, and they're lucky enough to have people experienced in it. (Both are things I'd love to get my hands on!)heard it here first flowing hair coming to city of legacy :D (sorry couldn't help myself).
Personally, I am *SO* freaking excited for Apex enabled clothing in CoT and Revival. It's something that constantly drove me mad in CoH. It's the #1 reason I never worse skirts, dresses, or long hair. TOO...FREAKING...STATIC. GAH.
I have not tried Daz 3D myself, and I...don't...actually know much about it.
Makehuman however, I am a big fan of. It's still got a long ways to go, but the concept is an amazing one. Especially if you're trying to develop a game or something on a tight budget.
And assuming your computer isn't from 10 years ago... It should run fine. There are always settings to reduce graphics if you run into lag.
Also scrappers are suppose to be offensive melee hence the crit.
I am just a regular poster now. I am spending time learning to make levels in UR4 and scraping paint/painting my house and getting ready to blow the doors off the little village we live in now at Halloween, I am preparing a smoke machine, green strobe lights and music/sound effects to come out of my houses cuppola!
Then we can bestow bounty to any kids who dare to visit!
I am actually finding UR4 is VERY easy to make levels in.
<blaster stuff>
Blasters tended to have better debuffs though didn't they?
Scrappers also used their melee damage modifier for ranged attacks instead of the proper (lower) ranged damage numbers, correct?
Ah, one of my many pet peeves. Scrappers were supposed to be the best soloers, back when that meant something (i.e. everyone else was supposed to not be). Fair enough. But then the dev team decided that scrappers didn't have a sufficiently good role on teams. Imagine that: the best soloer doesn't have a role on teams. So they decided that Scrappers needed something extra, particularly verses Tankers (this is what believing in Trinity play will do: make you stupid). So the devs decided that since Tankers were supposed to be better at fighting lots of things at once, Scrappers would be better at focusing damage on single harder targets. So the devs decided to add criticals.
Then somehow "criticals for bosses" became "criticals against everything, but just even more for bosses." *And then* someone decided that even that wasn't enough: to really be the best melee boss killer it was not enough to crit, Scrappers also needed a higher damage modifier than Blasters. So Scrappers not only gained supposedly team-oriented criticals (with no explanation for how that actually made them more valuable on teams), they also gained higher damage than Blasters. Which was ok, because Blasters had a team role - ranged damage - so it was ok for Scrappers to have the "(more) melee damage team role."
Except that's *not* the Blaster role or design. Blasters are not "ranged damage:" two seconds reading the powerset descriptions in the manual will confirm that. They are supposed to be the offensive specialists, with ranged damage, melee damage (in most cases), and some (mostly personal) utility. Furthermore, there's no such thing as the ranged damage role and the melee damage role. No team specifically needs melee or ranged damage, they just need damage.
By the time the devs figured this all out, it was too late. And I'm not convinced all the devs actually figured this out.
Ironically, by the time the devs were done, Scrappers were indeed the best soloers. By virtue of having half of Tanker defenses and more than all of Blaster damage.
Now, there were a lot of debates about which archetype really dealt more damage, most of them revolving around one person's anecdotes against another person's anecdotes or edge case comparisons. But here's the thing: Scrappers had the higher damage modifier (right up until Blasters ranged damage got boosted to the same modifier as part of D2.0), higher DPA single target attacks on average, and more AoE potential per set on average (I wrote several articles based on this, anyone else is free to count them up). If Blasters somehow dealt more damage on average, given the fact that the devs were required to create powers based on a formula both archetypes had to follow equally, that would have to be the most amazing coincidence in the history of game design. How does the archetype that on average have better numbers in all respects somehow end up dealing less damage? That could only happen by miraculous numerical design, which the devs were singularly incapable of.
(The other argument, that range improves offense by reducing the need to move to the target, is theoretically valid but I studied that one also: its not enough in most cases to change things enough because most of the movement scrappers have to do to move to successive targets is movement blasters have to mostly duplicate to cross a similar distance within missions, and because player base movement was fairly quick - if most missions had ambushes from behind, range would have a higher impact here than it actually did).
Since I'm already standing at Pet Peeve Podium, might as well finish the thought. To solo well, you basically need two things: enough damage, and enough defense. Stay alive long enough, shoot stuff fast enough. Notice that's how Scrappers were designed from the beginning. Setting them aside, the other four archetypes were "designed to team" by taking one of those two away. For Tankers, Defenders, and Controllers, its damage. For Blasters, its defense. When the devs decided to make "everything able to solo" they focused on offense: to solo well, you needed to kill reasonably fast. Ergo, the devs tried to add offense to Tankers, Controllers, and Defenders. In the case of Tankers and Controllers, over time they succeeded. In the case of Defenders, it was iffy. Then they called it a day. Guess what they forgot to do?
Until Arbiter Hawk started looking at them, Blasters were literally stuck in a "you can't buff Blaster defenses, because reasons" even though the rationale for that decision was broken for literally every other archetype in existence. That reason was not even carried through to CoV. Basically, the "you can't buff Tanker damage" rule was overridden by the "but they have to be able to solo" rule. Same for Controllers. But they kept the rule for Blasters, and only blasters. And no one on the dev team could ever adequately explain why. Not even Arbiter Hawk, whose answer basically was "I don't believe in that rule." Thus: I24.
There was no time in the existence of the game that any archetype wasn't overpowered relative to the game's balance standard for players with sufficient dedication to maximal slotting and optimal gameplay.
The game wasn't designed to be balanced around maximal slotting and optimal gameplay. It was designed around the median player performance, as determined by watching all the players who played the game and measuring their median performance. Under that metric, there was never a single moment in the existence of the game where blasters as an archetype were not severely underperforming all other archetypes. We're talking 25%-50% underperformance.
That's not 25%-50% under the other archetypes. That's 25%-50% under the median performance: many archetypes were over the median performance, which made the gap between blasters and the higher performing archetypes (i.e. scrappers) higher than that. The single largest contributor to this underperformance was that blasters were dying at a far higher rate than all other archetypes. Solo, teamed, low level, intermediate level, high level, max level. In all types of content. The numbers say that if you think you were doing well on a blaster, there were ten players doing just as well on every other archetype and a hundred players doing vastly worse on blasters. If you didn't see this, your experience was not representative of the playerbase as a whole.
The truth is, nobody cares about min/maxers or the power gaming elite, nor should they. The developers didn't need to care about us. We could always excel under any circumstances. The devs cared about the typical player, because those were the ones that kept the lights on. They represented the bulk of the players, the bulk of the playing time, and the bulk of the subscription revenue. They needed the game to present a roughly level playing field to them, and that's ultimately where the devs spent most of their energy. And I would have eviscerated them if they hadn't.
My calculations suggested that in broad strokes, I24 blasters when played by the average player would probably be in the general vicinity of I23 median performance in solo play during leveling conditions. Slightly under on average, but close enough. My worry was that the collateral buffs on archetypes like defenders and corruptors would increase the median performance enough to where blasters would fall below the median again. But I think at least for the average player, blasters would start to become competitive with scrappers as offensively focused characters.
The people already farming +2x8 with blasters? The I24 buffs would have less of an impact on them relative to average players in most cases, because those players were already reaching saturation levels of power that small to moderate buffs have more difficulty improving. And if they did, small price to pay to improve things for the other 95% of players. The same thing happened with the invention system. It let the 5% become far more powerful, but it also lifted most of the other 95% to moderate levels of performance far more consistent with the newer balance standard for players post-I5 (particularly when it came to soloing).
Blasters tended to have better debuffs though didn't they? I wouldn't know for sure. I only occassionaly wandered into foreign AT territory from Mastermindlandia but CheruBAM the gigantic-pissed-off-mutant-cupid blaster is quite possibly one of my proudest character creator wins and I got him to 20ish mostly casually soloing without a ton of effort. I definitely found blasters more fun than scrappers.
Some blaster debuffs were extremely effective. Electicity has endurance drain. Ice has slow movement/recharge. Fire has additional DPS.
When you add in the sheer amount of damage a well slotted blaster was able to generate those debuff effects enhanced the capability of the blaster concerned.
My sentiments exactly.
You know, I started CoX with an electric/fire blaster on Virtue. Her name was Celestial Dawn, but after a while I just called her the Human Debt Machine. :P Suddenly I found myself switching mains to my katana/invulnerability scrapper, who became my first 50. I don't think Dawn ever made it past 36.
I don't do any of the number crunching I see going on here, but this forum as of late has really explained a lot. ;)
Giving an archetype that is dying too often a damage buff that only works when they are about to die would have been the most awesome punking of an MMO playerbase of all time, if the devs had done it intentionally.
I can't have mundane things on my barn :)
why are a couple people changing the topic from every thread to blasters being underpowered and needing a buff? You've said you two cents on many threads, not everyone agrees that blasters were underpowered and needed a buff. Move on.
This waiting for any news is killing me and my friends . Not having a place to interact to relieve tension from work every day makes coming home very hard . I've a few games out there and they are just not the same. Getting that news a few weeks back just fueled the passion of playing again. I've been even playing with the Icon download thank you for that as well.
The problem with old defiance is that it violated one of the cardinal rules of multiplayer game design. It made it so that a buff from a teammate (i.e. force field bubbles, maneuvers, etc) could actually reduce your effectiveness. When your design encourages people to ask to be excluded from team buffs, you have a problem.
The problem with old defiance is that it violated one of the cardinal rules of multiplayer game design. It made it so that a buff from a teammate (i.e. force field bubbles, maneuvers, etc) could actually reduce your effectiveness.
When your design encourages people to ask to be excluded from team buffs, you have a problem.
I read with interest the discussion about ranged vs. melee damage modifiers on Scrappers and Blasters. Is there any compensating effect in terms of the base damage/cast-time value in the powersets?
Why? Because at low levels and at low recharge, you're always waiting for attacks to recharge. It doesn't ultimately matter what they do, what matters is how long it take for the next one to be ready to shoot. When you are waiting for powers to recharge, recharge is the most important thing. But once you have four or five attacks and start slotting for recharge, you tend to always have attacks ready to fire. What matters is not how long it takes to wait for an attack to be available, what matters is how quickly you can get an attack off and move on to the next attack. The faster your attacks are, the more damage you can squeeze in per second. In fact, a simple heuristic that tended to generate something close to the mathematically optimal attack chain was simply to always use the attack that dealt the most damage per unit time (DPA). You fire that, then of the remaining available attacks you use the one with the highest DPA again, and repeat.
In other words, how much damage a given offensive set could ultimately deal for high level players wasn't originally dictated by the power designers. It was dictated by the animators who did not know that they were responsible for that. I'm pretty sure even BaB did not know that until I essentially told him. He originally thought the animation times could at best only weakly influence damage, and recharge was far more important. But when I showed him my DPA-based damage calculations and he saw how they fairly accurately predicted the effects of faster cast time on Claws, he very quickly realized how much power the animation time wielded.
If you grew up playing blapper
Oh sorry, was there any other way to play blasters? must have missed that memo :P
The problem with old defiance is that it violated one of the cardinal rules of multiplayer game design. It made it so that a buff from a teammate (i.e. force field bubbles, maneuvers, etc) could actually reduce your effectiveness.
When your design encourages people to ask to be excluded from team buffs, you have a problem.
Reminds me of one of the least talked about advantages of the Sonic Resonance set for defenders, free endurance... well, basically.
The big trick that Sonic/ added for team buffing was a significant amount of res and some status protection. this could sustain a team, but not at 100% health. Mostly it kept teams at 80-90% just given the general flow of gameplay.
At those percentages Vigilance gave a huge end discount that meant you could run just about any and every toggle you could get your hands on and still blast away.
With other defenders, Vigilance worked against their powers. The more efficient you were at healing, flooring tohit, adding defense and just about anything else, the worse your endurance discount was while teaming.
Yes, vigilance was semi-broke... more broke than not.
So, I guess that since I24 was the fix blasters (I mean fix everything) issue, I25 was going to be... "and defenders too". :)
How does the archetype that on average have better numbers in all respects somehow end up dealing less damage?
I agree that in general Blasters were not good enough in being damage specialist and got penalized on defense unfairly for it, but Blaster AoEs were both larger in area, usually larger in maximum targets, and more easily placed where necessary. You could target the mob in the center of a spawn easily, but it was sometimes harder to jump into the center of a spawn if there were already too many mobs there, even if the PBAoE attacks of most Scrappers had the same radius of usual Blaster AoEs.so blasters hit more, did less damage, got agro from more enemies, and died because of no defense....not a good plan.
I think that in general, Blasters did more AoE damage than Scrappers, not numerically in a chain (unless the calculation makes adjustments for area covered and/or maximum targets), but in normal gameplay.
I agree that in general Blasters were not good enough in being damage specialist and got penalized on defense unfairly for it, but Blaster AoEs were both larger in area, usually larger in maximum targets, and more easily placed where necessary. You could target the mob in the center of a spawn easily, but it was sometimes harder to jump into the center of a spawn if there were already too many mobs there, even if the PBAoE attacks of most Scrappers had the same radius of usual Blaster AoEs.
I think that in general, Blasters did more AoE damage than Scrappers, not numerically in a chain (unless the calculation makes adjustments for area covered and/or maximum targets), but in normal gameplay.
The problem with old defiance is that it violated one of the cardinal rules of multiplayer game design. It made it so that a buff from a teammate (i.e. force field bubbles, maneuvers, etc) could actually reduce your effectiveness.
When your design encourages people to ask to be excluded from team buffs, you have a problem.
I knew someone that went through a phase where the way he played his energy blaster was to run right into the next spawn and Nova it, then yell "Help!" and die on the spot. Then wait for the team to clean up the spawn and rez him, and then use nothing but his ranged attacks from a distance until Nova was recharged again. And this was pre-Leeroy Jenkins.
That was when I began to realize I was doing it all wrong. Because he only did that on teams he knew he could get away with it. On lesser teams, he played more conservatively. And that's when I realized that all this power the devs were dumb enough to give us was wasted on just killing things faster. What it could do was allow us to play City of Heroes like no other players would ever be allowed to play anything, and get away with it. Leeroy Jenkins wiped his team with him. But before that ever happened, CoH players were pulling stunts far stupider, and often surviving to pull even stupider stunts next (or at least, not killing everyone else around them).
In City of Heroes, power was opportunity. Opportunity to see if a team of scrappers could brawl the Envoy of Shadows to death (if they were high enough level, they could). Opportunity to see how many times you can use Soul Transfer in a single room (my record: fifteen in the LRSF trying to solo an entire room of Longbow). Opportunity to see what would happen if eight blasters set off their nukes simultaneously fighting Nightstar (she'll kill all of you: might want to avoid that one).
If you were a veteran player and you spent all your time and energy trying to do what everyone else was doing, just faster, you were not seeing all the game had to offer. Sometimes you had to stop and nuke the roses.
In that case it would have been a second buff for defenders, since they got a damage buff built into vigilance when they soloed. I do agree vigilance needed a change though, as it just didn't do much. At least the game was very very blunt in saying not to rely on vigilance due to the high damage enemies did.
I think that in general, Blasters did more AoE damage than Scrappers, not numerically in a chain (unless the calculation makes adjustments for area covered and/or maximum targets), but in normal gameplay.
I don't know what to say, I wish my English was better since I have this feeling there is something here I am not fully getting.
I had a teammate who loved to speed boost the team, once in a mission. Normally, I had no problem with this, except in a cave map. For whatever reason, I always got "snagged" on terrain features, which annoyed the hell out of me. He never would allow me the chance to get out of range, if I asked, so I would always either delay entering or rush ahead to avoid the boost. :)Believe it or not, I actually used to train for that situation, and have started using Titan Icon to train for it again. When a large Oranbega cavern was cleared out, I would practice full speed runs of Flight (which I always have slotted as fast as it will reasonably go), down twisty-turny hallways lined with torches with the objective to make it to the end without snagging myself on any obstacles along the way.
(I know. It's my problem, rather than a general problem with the game, but I felt it bore pointing out.)
But when considering the damage buff that defenders got for solo you have to remember the binary nature of vigilance. it was either or. One while solo and one while on teams. No other inherent worked like that.
And the teaming buff given was at cross purpose to the goal of defending which was to keep the team full and happy. What it actually accomplished was to help force more defenders into an offender mentality (which actually wasn't abnormal as far as I was concerned).
When a defender behaves as an offender they often don't have the time to get themselves in the exact position required for their team to give that big aoe buff or time things just right for that targeted heal so they just jump in and do their thing. This leaves the team just a bit less protected than before and sometimes that makes the team take more damage than it would from a defender only stance. This, in turn, gives the offender more end discount and allows him to behave even more like an offender as he can blast and run around like the proverbial chicken without much care to endurance needs.
I had a teammate who loved to speed boost the team, once in a mission. Normally, I had no problem with this, except in a cave map. For whatever reason, I always got "snagged" on terrain features, which annoyed the hell out of me. He never would allow me the chance to get out of range, if I asked, so I would always either delay entering or rush ahead to avoid the boost. :)
I think that a lot of people here would...um, no pun intended, defend...the idea that a good defender should be able to attack while still using their buffs and heals. The "offenders" were actually far more useful in the later stages of the game than people who thought of the archetype as purely a protect-and-heal role, because by the time everyone was in their 30s many archetypes were sufficiently well protected through their own powers as to not need tons of defensive buffs. When you're a level 40 defender teaming with two tankers, a scrapper, a blaster and three controllers, your heals are not going to be needed. Your damage, on the other hand, is always welcome. :)
That said, if I was reworking Vigilance I might make it into a conscious choice rather than a passive effect--that is to say, something you could choose to be an endurance discount or a damage buff, rather than something the game chose for you. Giving you the option between damage and endurance makes it more useful in different situations, instead of being something that you only wanted sometimes.
I think that a lot of people here would...um, no pun intended, defend...the idea that a good defender should be able to attack while still using their buffs and heals. The "offenders" were actually far more useful in the later stages of the game than people who thought of the archetype as purely a protect-and-heal role, because by the time everyone was in their 30s many archetypes were sufficiently well protected through their own powers as to not need tons of defensive buffs. When you're a level 40 defender teaming with two tankers, a scrapper, a blaster and three controllers, your heals are not going to be needed. Your damage, on the other hand, is always welcome. :)
That said, if I was reworking Vigilance I might make it into a conscious choice rather than a passive effect--that is to say, something you could choose to be an endurance discount or a damage buff, rather than something the game chose for you. Giving you the option between damage and endurance makes it more useful in different situations, instead of being something that you only wanted sometimes.
And that's when I realized that all this power the devs were dumb enough to give us was wasted on just killing things faster. What it could do was allow us to play City of Heroes like no other players would ever be allowed to play anything, and get away with it. Leeroy Jenkins wiped his team with him. But before that ever happened, CoH players were pulling stunts far stupider, and often surviving to pull even stupider stunts next (or at least, not killing everyone else around them).
Put simply, City of Heroes allowed players to have so much more power compared to most MMOs that players could afford to do weird things that were just fun, without having to worry about being killed by the game if they did not play absolutely perfectly. A bad day in City of Heroes was often better than a good day in other MMOs that emphasized much more difficult combat with much more restrictions on the abilities of the players.
On Pinnacle this practice was known as, "Hold my beer and watch this!".
Besides which, penalties for dying were also lighter, especially as XP debt was "nerfed" into pointlessness over the years.
But they kept the rule for Blasters, and only blasters. And no one on the dev team could ever adequately explain why. Not even Arbiter Hawk, whose answer basically was "I don't believe in that rule." Thus: I24.
I can't tell you how often I had a frustrating discussion trying to explain this on a non-scrapper board.
Moonlighter~
so blasters hit more, did less damage, got agro from more enemies, and died because of no defense....not a good plan.
In high density large team missions where the critters were wall to wall, larger AoEs with higher target caps had a definite advantage. But there was no way for Blasters to translate that into an advantage on a consistent basis. And when they could make effective use of them at all, it was often on teams where the offensive advantage of those large AoEs translated into extra XP for everyone, while the aggro associated with them translated into debt for just the blaster himself or herself.
That actually creates a situation where those AoEs can actually cost blasters performance relative to everyone else. In solo missions those AoEs don't generate significantly more damage than melee AoEs but they cost more, and in teams they can create more debt for the blaster than they incrementally help reward earning rates.
It was possible, but good blasters waited a couple of seconds for the Tank to get aggro, or for the Controller to control the mobs, or for the Defender to debuff, and then they were okay.
It was also possible that they were on bad teams where none of that happened, and they tasted floor. But that's where Scrappers were better not because of damage potential, but because on bad teams you needed kind of an ability to solo since the team wasn't supporting you properly.
It was possible, but good blasters waited a couple of seconds for the Tank to get aggro, or for the Controller to control the mobs, or for the Defender to debuff, and then they were okay.
It was also possible that they were on bad teams where none of that happened, and they tasted floor. But that's where Scrappers were better not because of damage potential, but because on bad teams you needed kind of an ability to solo since the team wasn't supporting you properly.
Put simply, City of Heroes allowed players to have so much more power compared to most MMOs that players could afford to do weird things that were just fun, without having to worry about being killed by the game if they did not play absolutely perfectly. A bad day in City of Heroes was often better than a good day in other MMOs that emphasized much more difficult combat with much more restrictions on the abilities of the players.
Put simply, City of Heroes allowed players to have so much more power compared to most MMOs that players could afford to do weird things that were just fun, without having to worry about being killed by the game if they did not play absolutely perfectly. A bad day in City of Heroes was often better than a good day in other MMOs that emphasized much more difficult combat with much more restrictions on the abilities of the players.
There was an added bonus with scrappers
With the right secondary and build you could tank most the game
Your idea for an elec/NRG/elec dom is not a bad one. The two pets from the elec control side are pretty helpgul and there is also an aura in that powerset that drains baddies END so fast. Plus Nrg secondary does really nice single target damage. I think you will like it. But make sure Mu Mastery is not better than elec Mastery for your ancillary powers. Never know till you check (in Mids for now).
What I mean is that if you have a decent team, and you're adding a member for damage, usually you got a bit better improvement by adding a Blaster.
Your idea for an elec/NRG/elec dom is not a bad one. The two pets from the elec control side are pretty helpgul and there is also an aura in that powerset that drains baddies END so fast. Plus Nrg secondary does really nice single target damage. I think you will like it. But make sure Mu Mastery is not better than elec Mastery for your ancillary powers. Never know till you check (in Mids for now).
I almost want to make this my forum sig.
As to blasters: My main was an elec/nrg/elec blaster that blapped, held, stunned and drained. Am I better off re-making it as an elec/nrg/elec dominator or elec/kin/power corruptor?
Dominators and needed a lot of help. They absolutely sucked solo.
Blasphemy !!!!!!!!
You are much better off as an Elec/Nrg/Elec or Elec/Elec/Elec Dominator.. I played an Elec/Kin Corruptor and the Dominator was a much better sapper..
BTW there is no Elec Mastery Pool for Dominators.. Its the Mu Mastery which is still electrical attacks..
Power boost makes drains easier and the attacks are flashier in nrg (I don't care how weak whirling was seen to be as the animation was fantastic) than elec but oy... Knockback. I had an elec/elec/elec dom that was great fun. May toss a coin on it. I could always roll it as a StJ/elec brute.
Arcana, I tried et on a grav/nrg dom and couldn't believe how strong it was. Power boost + aid self makes up for the -hp.
Trying to remember all the elec toons I had now...
Power boost makes drains easier and the attacks are flashier in nrg (I don't care how weak whirling was seen to be as the animation was fantastic) than elec but oy... Knockback. I had an elec/elec/elec dom that was great fun. May toss a coin on it. I could always roll it as a StJ/elec brute.
Arcana, I tried et on a grav/nrg dom and couldn't believe how strong it was. Power boost + aid self makes up for the -hp.
Trying to remember all the elec toons I had now...
Any team could do an STF or an LGTF or a 5th Column TF, as long as they worked together. You could have no defender whatsoever, or have four defenders and no blaster. If you were short on tankers the controller could take over to keep Recluse busy, etc. The key was in teaming well, not in having some specific role. But even with this freedom, you could STILL fail if your team didn't work together.
My Signature Villain, Dr Remaugen, was a Dominator, Mind/Psionic. He only made it to the low 30s and even that took a lot of team help. He was almost my most hopeless toon, behind my Peace Bringer of course.My 3rd 50 was a Mind/Psi Dom, almost entirely solo'd. He was a painbringer and crowd destroyer.
In my experience Mu was almost always better. Easier to slot effectively and good damage.
Your idea for an elec/NRG/elec dom is not a bad one. The two pets from the elec control side are pretty helpgul and there is also an aura in that powerset that drains baddies END so fast. Plus Nrg secondary does really nice single target damage. I think you will like it. But make sure Mu Mastery is not better than elec Mastery for your ancillary powers. Never know till you check (in Mids for now).
Defenders, Controllers and Dominators and needed a lot of help. They absolutely sucked solo.
....
Dominators and needed a lot of help. They absolutely sucked solo
Blasphemy !!!!!!!!
Waves at Moonlighter good to see the old scrapper forum people posting
My 3rd 50 was a Mind/Psi Dom, almost entirely solo'd. He was a painbringer and crowd destroyer.
TP into the middle of the crowd, drain psyche, unleash hell. I made regen scrappers look bad after that.
......must resist the altaholicism....my first toon will be an elec/ice troller or maybe an elec/fire brute. ARGH!
I need help :( LOL.
I've also been pondering a grav/time troller...
Is it bad that I miss the scrapper forums and Mid's almost as much as I miss City of Heroes? The scrapper forums were/are the gold standard I hold all other MMO forums to; there just isn't another official forum I've seen that is as good.
Suggest a dark/time controller instead.
Suggest a dark/time controller instead.
Quote from: Arcana on Yesterday at 07:28:44 pm
And that's when I realized that all this power the devs were dumb enough to give us was wasted on just killing things faster. What it could do was allow us to play City of Heroes like no other players would ever be allowed to play anything, and get away with it. Leeroy Jenkins wiped his team with him. But before that ever happened, CoH players were pulling stunts far stupider, and often surviving to pull even stupider stunts next (or at least, not killing everyone else around them).
On Pinnacle this practice was known as, "Hold my beer and watch this!".
Suggest a dark/time controller instead.
For any archetype position, you can always find at least one person that earnestly believed it. I knew someone that believed his Invuln tanker was more squishy than his Invuln scrapper, even though that was literally mathematically impossible. He was one of those players that believed the numbers did not necessarily represent actual game play. There's exactly zero chance that was due to anything other than an extremely weird perception, but nothing I said ever dislodged him from it.
I actually liked my Grav/Time controller myself
What was your favorite part about that combo?
I was really considering it just because I thought they'd mesh well with each other. I can hardly remember what most of the gravity powers where. Except for the one that threw things at people of course. :P
On Infinity it was a custome that when you first dinged 50 you soloed the next mob. :) (if you was in a group of course). Hmm... think I'll bring that back and make a keybind that says "Go forth and die" while pointing at the mob. :P
I thought about that too but I thought grav/time would look cool together for some reason.. Honestly I'll probably do both before it's all said and done. When I was playing my favorite AT was Master Minds and second was Controllers. I was trying to make one of every combination for each AT (except Nin/trick arrow oh god, I just couldn't make it threw the low levels lol). I got most of the MMs done and quite a few trollers done. So I guess if City of Heroes ever opens it's door to us again. I'll start over again, the hard part is deciding which one first. LOL!
I know the first MM I'm going to make is going to be a bots/trap for farming. The first brute will probably be either elec/fire or claws/fire for farming ( did ss/fire for so long I want something different.).
All the other ATs, I'll probably get to eventually LOL!.
elec fire should be good, as to claws I can't remember how much weapon redraw there was between attacks, same with fire/fire
Wormhole was fun :) LGTF mission 4, wormholed the Rikti into the Hamidon and sat back and watched the fun.
What was your favorite part about that combo?
I was really considering it just because I thought they'd mesh well with each other. I can hardly remember what most of the gravity powers where. Except for the one that threw things at people of course. :P
For any archetype position, you can always find at least one person that earnestly believed it. I knew someone that believed his Invuln tanker was more squishy than his Invuln scrapper, even though that was literally mathematically impossible. He was one of those players that believed the numbers did not necessarily represent actual game play. There's exactly zero chance that was due to anything other than an extremely weird perception, but nothing I said ever dislodged him from it.
The only way I can see that being true is that his kill rate as a tanker was far enough below his kill rate as a scrapper that he couldn't defeat enemies fast enough to prevent his health dropping faster than it would on his scrapper.
Just to make some numbers up: if on a tanker you are 20% more resistant to damage than on a scrapper, and kill foes at 80% of the speed, you incoming damage is going to be 3% higher on the tanker, over time.
The sets seemed to visually mesh well for one thing.
Put simply, City of Heroes allowed players to have so much more power compared to most MMOs that players could afford to do weird things that were just fun, without having to worry about being killed by the game if they did not play absolutely perfectly. A bad day in City of Heroes was often better than a good day in other MMOs that emphasized much more difficult combat with much more restrictions on the abilities of the players.I'm a little late, but this. I miss playing an MMO that, at the endgame, felt similar to console RPGs at endgame, where my character was an unstoppable juggernaut (or the unstoppable Juggernaut). The main game I'm playing now doesn't feel that way at all. I always feel like I'm on the verge of dying, even though I'm 93% of the way to the level cap - so, the equivalent of a level 46 CoH character - and wearing the best gear I can get for my level.
For any archetype position, you can always find at least one person that earnestly believed it. I knew someone that believed his Invuln tanker was more squishy than his Invuln scrapper, even though that was literally mathematically impossible. He was one of those players that believed the numbers did not necessarily represent actual game play. There's exactly zero chance that was due to anything other than an extremely weird perception, but nothing I said ever dislodged him from it.
For any archetype position, you can always find at least one person that earnestly believed it. I knew someone that believed his Invuln tanker was more squishy than his Invuln scrapper, even though that was literally mathematically impossible. He was one of those players that believed the numbers did not necessarily represent actual game play. There's exactly zero chance that was due to anything other than an extremely weird perception, but nothing I said ever dislodged him from it.
Is it bad that I miss the scrapper forums and Mid's almost as much as I miss City of Heroes? The scrapper forums were/are the gold standard I hold all other MMO forums to; there just isn't another official forum I've seen that is as good. Elitist Jerks comes close, but it isn't official, nor was it as friendly at least from my experience.
Moonlighter~
I actually liked my Grav/Time controller myself.
I was once told that statistically speaking, Blasters and Scrappers did roughly the same amount of damage on teams. Given that statistically Blasters were dead more often than Scrappers suggests that when they were alive they did deal somewhat more damage in teams overall as you suggest. However, that's just one situation among the totality of the game, and even in that situation Blaster damage dealing was only somewhat more effective, and only when they were alive, and their overall net contribution to the team still did not outstrip Scrappers.
That statistical data point was another confirmation of my analysis that Blasters were not in fact outdamaging anything nor could they on average. One individual Blaster might do a lot, but that would be in spite of their design not because of it.
I played many, many blasters, and really hated the argument that blasters didn't need defense because they had range. It didn't make much difference when the mobs had ranged attacks that could easily neutralize a blaster in just a couple hits (base damage plus DOT).
Then there were the bosses who'd add spam holds to the mix (Insanity Mages, Gunslingers, Rikti, DE...). Seemed like range wasn't really that much of an advantage.
Energy/Energy had a few nice attacks that could keep a boss on the ropes long enough to whittle it down, but if either bone smasher, stun, or total focus missed, you were out of luck. Come to think of it, they were basically scrappers with no defense, anyhow.
It is amazing to me that so many others had great luck with Dominators, all of mine frustrated me to no end. I usually played solo and honestly, I never learned all the tricks for each AT, but some of them worked so much better for me than others. Maybe is was just the RNG playing with my head.
For any archetype position, you can always find at least one person that earnestly believed it. I knew someone that believed his Invuln tanker was more squishy than his Invuln scrapper, even though that was literally mathematically impossible. He was one of those players that believed the numbers did not necessarily represent actual game play. There's exactly zero chance that was due to anything other than an extremely weird perception, but nothing I said ever dislodged him from it.
Dominators were kind of tricky. If you played one before the Dominator buffs that came later certainly it could lead to frustration. If you were a person that utilized IO's then you could achive Perma-Dom. Once you got there... Dominators become a very strong class because of their ability to control, their resistance to Mezzing and the damage they can put out..
But yes it can be rough going..but once you get there.. you can steam roll...
My Fire/Psi regularly farmed the wall in Cimerora for drops and influence.. I had an Ice/Thorn that would make scrappers ask me.. what the heck is that ??
In all honesty I think ANY toon can be played well in this game.. Some combos will work better than others in circumstances but anything can be effective..
Oh, yeah, I did have Elec/Elec and Fire/Fire Doms, too, but they never got too far.
I'm just sorry I never got to try Plant Control or an Illusion 'Troller..
I alted a little before sunset on Illusion/Time. It seemed very offense minded
I alted a little before sunset on Illusion/Time. It seemed very offense mindedThis was my main character before the shutdown. Illusion/Time was the very best combo I had found for locking down whole groups of enemies. And they go well together thematically as well - "time is an illusion." :)
Dominators were kind of tricky. If you played one before the Dominator buffs that came later certainly it could lead to frustration. If you were a person that utilized IO's then you could achive Perma-Dom. Once you got there... Dominators become a very strong class because of their ability to control, their resistance to Mezzing and the damage they can put out..
But yes it can be rough going..but once you get there.. you can steam roll...
My Fire/Psi regularly farmed the wall in Cimerora for drops and influence.. I had an Ice/Thorn that would make scrappers ask me.. what the heck is that ??
In all honesty I think ANY toon can be played well in this game.. Some combos will work better than others in circumstances but anything can be effective..
My first character was a blaster and my last alt was a blaster. I loved the blaster playstyle and so I designed one specifically based on using range as my best defense. I chose Sonic/Ice/Ice as the best ranged choice.
Dominators were kind of tricky. If you played one before the Dominator buffs that came later certainly it could lead to frustration. If you were a person that utilized IO's then you could achive Perma-Dom. Once you got there... Dominators become a very strong class because of their ability to control, their resistance to Mezzing and the damage they can put out..
Put simply, City of Heroes allowed players to have so much more power compared to most MMOs that players could afford to do weird things that were just fun, without having to worry about being killed by the game if they did not play absolutely perfectly. A bad day in City of Heroes was often better than a good day in other MMOs that emphasized much more difficult combat with much more restrictions on the abilities of the players.
I had a teammate who loved to speed boost the team, once in a mission. Normally, I had no problem with this, except in a cave map. For whatever reason, I always got "snagged" on terrain features, which annoyed the hell out of me. He never would allow me the chance to get out of range, if I asked, so I would always either delay entering or rush ahead to avoid the boost. :)
(I know. It's my problem, rather than a general problem with the game, but I felt it bore pointing out.)
I didn't think that was so much the player but bad map design. You had a lot of static meshing that wasn't solid enough to prevent people from being stuck. Some caves such as the counsel caves for instance should have had invisible walls placed in front of the piping to prevent people from getting jammed into them. I'd have also smoothed the floors some, but I'd totally have made the walls much flatter for gameplay sake and to prevent static mesh disasters.I had always assumed that this was deliberate for the Oranbega cave designs, which is why I would train myself in speed-running them without getting snagged on the torches. I always thought that was a situation where I appreciated being one of the (apparently) few people who played CoH with a game controller - flight especially was smooth and sure for me.
Believe it or not, I actually used to train for that situation, and have started using Titan Icon to train for it again. When a large Oranbega cavern was cleared out, I would practice full speed runs of Flight (which I always have slotted as fast as it will reasonably go), down twisty-turny hallways lined with torches with the objective to make it to the end without snagging myself on any obstacles along the way.
Did you finish the Ice/Thorn? I started one of those and got into my 30s with it, but never got it completed. Were you ever able to solve the alpha issue with it? For me, it was either I died on the first volley or I was fine. Never anything in between.
any update on the timeline? I just got a new PC. Old one fragged itself. Lost all my builds save two (Which I still have in Email format)My best advice is to start playing around in Mids again. I've had to re-familiarize myself with it, but I swear I'm actually making improvements in my new builds that didn't occur to me last time around.
I...have no idea how to rebuild Acanous :<
It is amazing to me that so many others had great luck with Dominators, all of mine frustrated me to no end. I usually played solo and honestly, I never learned all the tricks for each AT, but some of them worked so much better for me than others. Maybe is was just the RNG playing with my head.
From my experience, one of the indirect sources of frustration for Dominators was that their powerset design strongly encouraged a hybrid melee-ranged combat style that many players were not used to. If you played and excelled with an Controller, or a non-Bot Mastermind, or a Blapper, you were more likely to transition smoothly to a Dominator. If you tended to focus on ranged blasters, non-ranged scrappers, or defenders, you might have had a harder time.
Some players were also frustrated by the relative lack of AoEs, but what Dominators lacked in quantity they made up for in execution potential, because you could use control to better leverage your AoEs, particularly PBAoEs.
And of course there's Domination. If you could leverage Domination well, that also made a huge difference. And you didn't need to perma Domination to get more mileage out of it than other players. Because Domination also refreshed endurance, if you could afford to use more endurance than was otherwise sustainable and pace yourself so that Domination tended to refresh endurance when you were very low, in effect that meant you were able to do more per minute than a player that didn't pace themselves that way. That tended to translate indirectly into more damage, faster kill rate, and faster overall play.
It is amazing to me that so many others had great luck with Dominators, all of mine frustrated me to no end. I usually played solo and honestly, I never learned all the tricks for each AT, but some of them worked so much better for me than others. Maybe is was just the RNG playing with my head.
Melee characters in general just weren't for me. My philosophy is: "If you're close enough to touch the enemy, then they're close enough to touch you - and that's too close!" I tried to ensure range 100 (at least) for all my powers and keep my distance, hovering with Fly, ready to escape if things went badly.
Melee characters in general just weren't for me. My philosophy is: "If you're close enough to touch the enemy, then they're close enough to touch you - and that's too close!" I tried to ensure range 100 (at least) for all my powers and keep my distance, hovering with Fly, ready to escape if things went badly.
The safest place is right beside your bubbler.. or fluffy xDActually, I found the safest place was a good 200'+ out, sniping from very long range. Extra fun - you hit one, but you're so far way that halfway to you he gets bored, turns around and goes back. Then you hit him again and finish him off. :)
...
Widow was sort of like playing a more badass claws character with psychic powers and a laughably easy softcap...Kickass.
...
any update on the timeline? I just got a new PC. Old one fragged itself. Lost all my builds save two (Which I still have in Email format)
I...have no idea how to rebuild Acanous :<
I had always assumed that this was deliberate for the Oranbega cave designs, which is why I would train myself in speed-running them without getting snagged on the torches. I always thought that was a situation where I appreciated being one of the (apparently) few people who played CoH with a game controller - flight especially was smooth and sure for me.
I put the +chance to hold proc in Distortion Field for even more randomly frozen in time goodness. Between
I was once told that statistically speaking, Blasters and Scrappers did roughly the same amount of damage on teams. Given that statistically Blasters were dead more often than Scrappers suggests that when they were alive they did deal somewhat more damage in teams overall as you suggest. However, that's just one situation among the totality of the game, and even in that situation Blaster damage dealing was only somewhat more effective, and only when they were alive, and their overall net contribution to the team still did not outstrip Scrappers.
That statistical data point was another confirmation of my analysis that Blasters were not in fact outdamaging anything nor could they on average. One individual Blaster might do a lot, but that would be in spite of their design not because of it.
3. Slot for positional defense.
6. Slot stealth proc as soon as you can.
ARG !!!!! Back to Mids !!!
ARG !!!!! Back to Mids !!!
Hi,
Was it this weekend positron had something to reveal?
.. I've been here constantly, but this is the first I'm hearing about Positron revealing anything.
A Pure defender is one who places first emphasis on his/her team defensive capabilities. They start to see things like if times correctly, Twilight Grasp will become an autohit (if you can get the power to hit just as the mob faceplants then it hit's all but automatically).
Worst the not read ever English have I.
Y0|_| c0|_|1o| |-|4\/3 60|\|3 f|_|11 1337.
The only announcement I can remember regarding Positron and September is that he tweeted that under the original proposed timeline, CoH2 would go live in Sep 2014. Obviously that's not happening.
e-
I meant to reply to this the other day, but got distracted and forgot about it until we were talking about /Dark in the controller thread. The above statement is incorrect. Twilight Grasp is never autohit, and timing it like that would have zero impact on the actual hit chance.
The reason is simple: TG requires a live foe as a target. If you manage to activate the power, then the target is alive at the moment you activate it.
To-hit rolls happen at the start of power activation. This is most obvious with powers that have a long delayed hit like Propel -- you can see the hit roll in the combat log instantly, allowing you to "predict the future" and know if it was a hit or miss long before you see it happen onscreen.
The point is that if the target dies on the next combat tick, or even later in the same one, it doesn't matter -- the hit roll has already happened and it's already been determined if TG hit or missed.
Yes, I remember that well. Powers like Transfusion/Transference (but NOT Twilight Grasp) that spawned a pseudopet at the target would activate, but fail to spawn the pseudopet if the target died before the hit delay.
I don't remember exactly when it was fixed -- I kind of think around the same time many ally buffs were made into AoEs -- but there was much rejoicing from my Kins.
AoE speed boost, such a wonderful thing, and still the complaints I SAID DONT SPEEDBOOST ME!
Was Positron announcement about a kick starter for a card game with several former Paragon Studios employees ?
I meant to reply to this the other day, but got distracted and forgot about it until we were talking about /Dark in the controller thread. The above statement is incorrect. Twilight Grasp is never autohit, and timing it like that would have zero impact on the actual hit chance.
The reason is simple: TG requires a live foe as a target. If you manage to activate the power, then the target is alive at the moment you activate it.
To-hit rolls happen at the start of power activation. This is most obvious with powers that have a long delayed hit like Propel -- you can see the hit roll in the combat log instantly, allowing you to "predict the future" and know if it was a hit or miss long before you see it happen onscreen.
The point is that if the target dies on the next combat tick, or even later in the same one, it doesn't matter -- the hit roll has already happened and it's already been determined if TG hit or missed.
Yes, absolutely you have to fire it off before the critter dies. If you fire it off before the critter is killed but the animation hits after it dies something weird happens. The timing is actually something closer to "you observe the bad guy is close to dead and you have a teammate on him, your teammate clicks his final power (a hit but damage isn't dealt yet), you click TG, damage from teammate is delivered to the critter, your animation hits and you get the heal".It's a false observation. There is no point in which Twilight Grasp would fail to do a tohit check and still heal. If it fails to do a tohit check, it doesn't get activated. IIRC Twilight Grasp had a higher than average chance to hit (or maybe that was Transfusion...), and you probably put accuracy enhancements in there. Possibly had some tohit buffs/bonuses. It's rarely going to miss under those circumstances.
I know, that it makes absolutely no logical sense that this affects tohit.
What I'd observed was not actually auto hit, but using that trick well over a 1000 times I swear I only missed maybe twice. Normally I would just dismiss such things as luck of the dice but the probability of this would have been too weird for me not to think there was some sort of strangeness in the code.
I even went so far as to tell one of my SG mates about it to see if he saw the same results. After practicing it, he thought it was a large increase in chance of it hitting too.
It could have been a false observation, I grant that. However, the observation continued throughout me using Dark Miasma. This dates back to either late I1 or I2. Back when TG had its really wonderful looking but completely unreasonably long animation (like 4 seconds or something).
I think it's really unlikely that there will be any new information until the deal either goes through or dies. There...just isn't anything to tell.
"In our negotiations with NCSoft, we have finally agreed on the type of tea that will be served at the meeting, and which variety of moon cake will be distributed to the participants."
;D
AoE speed boost, such a wonderful thing, and still the complaints I SAID DONT SPEEDBOOST ME!
Three words for them: Null the Gull.
Yes, absolutely you have to fire it off before the critter dies. If you fire it off before the critter is killed but the animation hits after it dies something weird happens. The timing is actually something closer to "you observe the bad guy is close to dead and you have a teammate on him, your teammate clicks his final power (a hit but damage isn't dealt yet), you click TG, damage from teammate is delivered to the critter, your animation hits and you get the heal".
I know, that it makes absolutely no logical sense that this affects tohit.
What I'd observed was not actually auto hit, but using that trick well over a 1000 times I swear I only missed maybe twice. Normally I would just dismiss such things as luck of the dice but the probability of this would have been too weird for me not to think there was some sort of strangeness in the code.
I even went so far as to tell one of my SG mates about it to see if he saw the same results. After practicing it, he thought it was a large increase in chance of it hitting too.
It could have been a false observation, I grant that. However, the observation continued throughout me using Dark Miasma. This dates back to either late I1 or I2. Back when TG had its really wonderful looking but completely unreasonably long animation (like 4 seconds or something).
I meant to reply to this the other day, but got distracted and forgot about it until we were talking about /Dark in the controller thread. The above statement is incorrect. Twilight Grasp is never autohit, and timing it like that would have zero impact on the actual hit chance.
The reason is simple: TG requires a live foe as a target. If you manage to activate the power, then the target is alive at the moment you activate it.
To-hit rolls happen at the start of power activation. This is most obvious with powers that have a long delayed hit like Propel -- you can see the hit roll in the combat log instantly, allowing you to "predict the future" and know if it was a hit or miss long before you see it happen onscreen.
The point is that if the target dies on the next combat tick, or even later in the same one, it doesn't matter -- the hit roll has already happened and it's already been determined if TG hit or missed.
I will say though that whenever i 'deleyed' an attack in an attack chain that had previously missed, I was always able to get a hit as long as my accuracy was 80+. In fact you could if you fought for a long time notice patterns in the to hit roles in that they seemed to be timer based.
That sounds like the streakbreaker kicking in. It resets when you have a lower to-hit threshold, but it was literally impossible to miss to 95% chance attacks in a row. If you watched the combat log, it would have said something like this:
Missed! Your Pie Throw power had a 95% chance to hit, you rolled 0.97.
Hit! Your Pie Throw power was forced to hit by the streakbreaker.
Hi,
Was it this weekend positron had something to reveal?
"In our negotiations with NCSoft, we have finally agreed on the type of tea that will be served at the meeting, and which variety of moon cake will be distributed to the participants."
;D
I just wish we KNEW there were meetings still taking place. I am sure they are, but would be nice to know.
You're joking, but sometimes that's not far off from the truth. -facepalms-
Not to say that's how it's going in this case, since I don't know personally.
Gah, I wish I could be a fly on the wall at those meetings. lol
Maybe this was it? http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7006643-queue-revamp (http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7006643-queue-revamp)
Unfortunately, I have to assert the most likely explanation is observer bias. The game engine simply couldn't malfunction in the way you're describing, for the simple reason that the moment you activate TG it rolls its to hit roll and decides whether to hit or miss immediately. Anything that happens after that can't change that outcome. What you're saying you are observing, in game engine terms, is that TG is activated, the game engine decides whether the power hits or misses, but if it has already rolled a miss and the target dies, the game engine decides to change its mind and call it a hit.
Its possible for a power that hits to subsequently fail to apply its effect if something later interferes with the process, like the issue with pseudo-pets, or the game engine could malfunction and not apply those effects because of a bug. But its not possible for a power that misses to subsequently apply its effects anyway (technically, anything is possible with a software bug but this is vastly more unlikely than the reverse for the simple reason hit decisions can't be "appealed later" in the game engine).
I will say though that whenever i 'deleyed' an attack in an attack chain that had previously missed, I was always able to get a hit as long as my accuracy was 80+. In fact you could if you fought for a long time notice patterns in the to hit roles in that they seemed to be timer based.
The other thought (which I considered more likely at the time) was that it was a mea culpa to the dark miasma defender for his crappy animation time. Sort of
You're joking, but sometimes that's not far off from the truth. -facepalms-
Not to say that's how it's going in this case, since I don't know personally.
Gah, I wish I could be a fly on the wall at those meetings. lol
I can say from long experience if I popped a small Yellow inspiration on my blaster - my next attack almost always missed - it was so obvious that I would use a lesser damage attack that activated quick and then the major attack.
Is it meetings or is it more waiting interminably long periods of time for e-mails?
I can say from long experience if I popped a small Yellow inspiration on my blaster - my next attack almost always missed - it was so obvious that I would use a lesser damage attack that activated quick and then the major attack.
I played the game for 8+ years and it was a standing joke - I would face palm if I nuked right after the small Yellow and whiffed. I would go arrrgggghhh - forgot! I know Arcana you are going to tell me it was not true but it happened with Clockwork regularity.
I can say from long experience if I popped a small Yellow inspiration on my blaster - my next attack almost always missed - it was so obvious that I would use a lesser damage attack that activated quick and then the major attack.
I played the game for 8+ years and it was a standing joke - I would face palm if I nuked right after the small Yellow and whiffed. I would go arrrgggghhh - forgot! I know Arcana you are going to tell me it was not true but it happened with Clockwork regularity.
After all, Achmeds Raison would dictate it (it's not spellt that way?).
FYI - that's "Occam's Razor". (Paraphrased): When given a choice between multiple possible choices, the simplest one is usually the correct one.
I think it's more likely a psychological phenomena that makes it seem to hit more often under certain circumstances.
Nonsense.
Everybody knows that Aim+Build Up is a much better way to guarantee a miss on a blaster than using a yellow insp.
AoE speed boost, such a wonderful thing, and still the complaints I SAID DONT SPEEDBOOST ME!
Yeah the streakbreaker was...nice, I guess. It meant you hit once for every ten swings IIRC (so 9 misses in a row, the next to hit check was guaranteed to hit. The reverse was hilarious though; you could hit I think 9 times in a row and were guaranteed to MISS on the next (10th) attack. REALLY annoying if that was your NUKE or a HUGE hitting attack.Nope. Streakbreaker only worked on forcing misses into hits. It never forced a hit into a miss. Ever. (For players *and* NPCs.)
Or the chair that downix farts on.
You're joking, but sometimes that's not far off from the truth. -facepalms-
Not to say that's how it's going in this case, since I don't know personally.
Gah, I wish I could be a fly on the wall at those meetings. lol
I can say from long experience if I popped a small Yellow inspiration on my blaster - my next attack almost always missed - it was so obvious that I would use a lesser damage attack that activated quick and then the major attack.
I played the game for 8+ years and it was a standing joke - I would face palm if I nuked right after the small Yellow and whiffed. I would go arrrgggghhh - forgot! I know Arcana you are going to tell me it was not true but it happened with Clockwork regularity.
Nope. Streakbreaker only worked on forcing misses into hits. It never forced a hit into a miss. Ever. (For players *and* NPCs.)
And it forced hits based on the tohit of the hits involved. Read up on it. It wasn't "nice...I guess". It was pretty awesome. http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Streakbreaker#The_Streak_Breaker
I never found accuracy a problem as much as endurance. I don't remember when they changed the way endurance was handled, but in later years I remember having lowbie characters run out of endurance half way through fighting a group with 2 minions and a Lieutenant and I always hated having to take a long break to rest seemingly between every encounter (again, on lowbies - I admit it, I'm an alt-o-holic).
I never found accuracy a problem as much as endurance. I don't remember when they changed the way endurance was handled, but in later years I remember having lowbie characters run out of endurance half way through fighting a group with 2 minions and a Lieutenant and I always hated having to take a long break to rest seemingly between every encounter (again, on lowbies - I admit it, I'm an alt-o-holic).Dude, invest in those +recov and +recov/+regen IOs in the healing set. One of each and one BIG numina lvl 50 Heal IO in every one of my toons. Plus, you can add the chance of +end (performance shifter IO proc) into stamina (it ill randomly proc a decent chunk of End every so often IIRC).
I never found accuracy a problem as much as endurance. I don't remember when they changed the way endurance was handled, but in later years I remember having lowbie characters run out of endurance half way through fighting a group with 2 minions and a Lieutenant and I always hated having to take a long break to rest seemingly between every encounter (again, on lowbies - I admit it, I'm an alt-o-holic).
Dude, invest in those +recov and +recov/+regen IOs in the healing set. One of each and one BIG numina lvl 50 Heal IO in every one of my toons. Plus, you can add the chance of +end (performance shifter IO proc) into stamina (it ill randomly proc a decent chunk of End every so often IIRC).
From there, make sure to get ALL your +Max End Accolades. That extra 10 (?) end is a huge difference.
Lastly, while I never waste a LOT of end redux in my attack powers (unless they are 15 or more End to cast), I do make sure the togs get some lubbin.
Unfortunately, none of that applies to lowbies, who can't slot Numina's Conv. until 25, and can't get those accoldes until late game. I THINK Performance Shifter +end proc was available at level ten, but you couldn't take Stamina that early, if I recall, anyway. If you took Swift at level 6, Health at level 8, then I guess you could get it at level 10, now that I think about it, but that means you haven't taken any actual powers since level four.
By the time those things really came in to play, end was becoming less of an issue. Those things just made end move from a rare issue to a non-issue.
Unfortunately, none of that applies to lowbies, who can't slot Numina's Conv. until 25, and can't get those accoldes until late game. I THINK Performance Shifter +end proc was available at level ten, but you couldn't take Stamina that early, if I recall, anyway. If you took Swift at level 6, Health at level 8, then I guess you could get it at level 10, now that I think about it, but that means you haven't taken any actual powers since level four.
By the time those things really came in to play, end was becoming less of an issue. Those things just made end move from a rare issue to a non-issue.
Unfortunately, none of that applies to lowbies, who can't slot Numina's Conv. until 25, and can't get those accoldes until late game. I THINK Performance Shifter +end proc was available at level ten, but you couldn't take Stamina that early, if I recall, anyway. If you took Swift at level 6, Health at level 8, then I guess you could get it at level 10, now that I think about it, but that means you haven't taken any actual powers since level four.
By the time those things really came in to play, end was becoming less of an issue. Those things just made end move from a rare issue to a non-issue.
Inherent fitness made this possible much earlier and in fact pretty much ended END problems for me. I would slot what ever dropped until I hit 12 and either frankenslot level 15's doubles or triples or just slot level 15 IO's. They were more effective and I didn't have to worry about them until 25.
Yeah, inherent fitness really did change the game for the better in just about every way.
As the unofficial tohit system moderator, I can say no such effect ever turned up. Moreover, once real numbers was added I kept *all* my logs with all options turned on to investigate. Because of my many long-ranged tests of the game combined with my gameplay, I have a huge number of tohit rolls I can analyze. Because of the many suggestions that the tohit rolls were biased in some way, I did an analysis of tohit rolls in which I analyzed first ten million, then over 100 million tohit rolls for randomness, using most of the randomness tests I am aware of. There was only one non-random signal detected in the tohit roll values, and that was due to the way the game rounded off tohit rolls for display which affected the hundredth (of a percent) digit and skewed it in an odd way. In other words, when your tohit roll was 72.35%, the "5" could have actually been slightly non-random.
This was actually on-going testing; if the game was still runnning my next stop was going to be to retest with five hundred million rolls and then one billion.
Both. The maximum hit chance is 95%, and the minimum is 5%.Champions uses 3d6, not a d20, when attacking or making skill rolls, so it wasn't as simple as a straight 5% of the time attacks always hit and 5% of the time always miss. Attack rolls follow a bell curve rather than the flat distribution of d20 based games, so that Champions and the Hero System have automatic succeed or fail results .46% of the time instead of 5% when rolling, which does make the automatic hits or misses more noteworthy since they each happen a bit less than a half a percent of the time.
The reason for this is rooted in the D20 rules that the original designers (mostly Jack) were fond of, having played games like Champions tabletop. Rolling a 20 is a critical success, rolling a 1 is a critical failure, and both usually apply unconditionally regardless of any other skills or variables. If instead of dice you are using a computer to generate random numbers, a 1 out of 20 chance is 5%.
But if you wanted to run in and nova in TSW, you just take melee weapons, because they recharge to full resources out of combat. Or Blood Magic, and cast that first nuke from health - you even get a buff to your Blood spells from doing that.
Endurance was both a blessing and a curse. We need some sort of gating mechanism to keep us from spamming constantly, and recharge alone can't be it, because the only thing WORSE than having no endurance would be having plenty but having no attacks recharged. Ever fight an NPC who did massive -recharge and you know what I'm talking about. Still, the way lowbies would run out of endurance so quickly was just painful.
I still prefer it to "builders" like Champions Online uses. The idea is cool "lets give them an attack that they can use even when out of endurance, to refill" but since so many builders just felt like weak attacks, I felt like I was being FORCED to use my weaker attacks all the time just to keep my endurance up. It made my toon feel weaker, overall. I hated it.
The Secret World relies on counters and gating some powers behind having "resources" built by certain attacks. This was slightly better than Champions' version, since some of the resource builders were decent attacks, but it involved more micromanaging than I really wanted, and forced you in to very specific attack chains. Build, build, build, build, build, use big three resource consumer, build two more times, use big five resource consumer, start over. Sometimes you don't want to start out with smaller attacks. You want to run in, Nova, and then clean up if you can. If you have to build "resources" to Nova, that becomes impossible. You ALWAYS have to start off with the same attacks.
I'd love it if an MMO came up with a system where energy for attacks was based on endurance that naturally regenerated like CoH, but most attacks could still be activated when out of endurance, just with reduced effectiveness. So you start a fight with your blaster and it lasts longer than you expected, but you have no blues? You can keep fighting but as you get more and more tired you start doing less and less damage until you take a break or pop a blue.
Something that lets you keep fighting and avoid a faceplant when you're out of end, but still gates you a little and makes you slow down between fights, etc.
Champions uses 3d6, not a d20, when attacking or making skill rolls, so it wasn't as simple as a straight 5% of the time attacks always hit and 5% of the time always miss. Attack rolls follow a bell curve rather than the flat distribution of d20 based games, so that Champions and the Hero System have automatic succeed or fail results .46% of the time instead of 5% when rolling, which does make the automatic hits or misses more noteworthy since they each happen a bit less than a half a percent of the time.
I thought that was Claven's Maxim.
We have always played our D20 tabletop games with natural die roll of one always being a Failure or Critical Failure and twenty always being a Success or Critical Success. Champion or not, it is a long standing traditional D20 house rule.
Champions uses 3d6, not a d20, when attacking or making skill rolls, so it wasn't as simple as a straight 5% of the time attacks always hit and 5% of the time always miss. Attack rolls follow a bell curve rather than the flat distribution of d20 based games, so that Champions and the Hero System have automatic succeed or fail results .46% of the time instead of 5% when rolling, which does make the automatic hits or misses more noteworthy since they each happen a bit less than a half a percent of the time.
Champions uses 3d6, not a d20, when attacking or making skill rolls, so it wasn't as simple as a straight 5% of the time attacks always hit and 5% of the time always miss.
I never found accuracy a problem as much as endurance. I don't remember when they changed the way endurance was handled, but in later years I remember having lowbie characters run out of endurance half way through fighting a group with 2 minions and a Lieutenant and I always hated having to take a long break to rest seemingly between every encounter (again, on lowbies - I admit it, I'm an alt-o-holic).Dude, invest in those +recov and +recov/+regen IOs in the healing set. One of each and one BIG numina lvl 50 Heal IO in every one of my toons. Plus, you can add the chance of +end (performance shifter IO proc) into stamina (it ill randomly proc a decent chunk of End every so often IIRC).
From there, make sure to get ALL your +Max End Accolades. That extra 10 (?) end is a huge difference.
Lastly, while I never waste a LOT of end redux in my attack powers (unless they are 15 or more End to cast), I do make sure the togs get some lubbin.
Unfortunately, none of that applies to lowbies, who can't slot Numina's Conv. until 25,
and can't get those accoldes until late game.
I THINK Performance Shifter +end proc was available at level ten,
but you couldn't take Stamina that early, if I recall, anyway. If you took Swift at level 6, Health at level 8, then I guess you could get it at level 10, now that I think about it, but that means you haven't taken any actual powers since level four.
I'd regularly find my to hit rolls in attack chains for alot of attacks consistently hover in 3-5% at times, rarely straying, actually. I'd look at to hit roles all the time. I had other moments where some mob rolled 33.5%, 34.7, then 32% in all three attacks he had on me(hitting EVERY time).
True, D20 games use the rule a natural 1 is auto fail, and a natural 20 auto succeed.
D&D then, which does use D20. I've never played Champions myself so I (wrongly) assumed it was the same.Champions is my all time favorite tabletop superhero game due to the enormous flexibility and customization of characters, so i'm slightly familiar with it. (Although i haven't actually played the game since a bit after 5th Edition was released.) As i recall most of the original CoH devs were also big Champions fans. Now for standard fantasy games i usually play D20 based games, mostly a 3.5 game set in the Forgotten Realms at the moment, but i've played a lot of non-D20 games.
Minor aside, the Knights of the Old Republic console games used a D20 variant. Literally, you could swap over to the console page in the menu and see the dice rolls. It has the "20 = automatic hit" rule but I don't believe it uses the 1 as a failure.
I don't think the MMO based on it uses anything close to the same system, but it's something I always found amusing about the originals.
I'd regularly find my to hit rolls in attack chains for alot of attacks consistently hover in 3-5% at times, rarely straying, actually. I'd look at to hit roles all the time. I had other moments where some mob rolled 33.5%, 34.7, then 32% in all three attacks he had on me(hitting EVERY time).
Not saying the to hit roles are biased but really if one attacks fast enough strangely I noticed very strange numbers rolling. I wouldn't say at all in fact that the random number generator was evenly distributed. Each 1% should have a 1% chance of rolling, but just from play experience overall I found that not to be the case. This is from play experience and looking at the numbers in actual combat at the time the game was running.
Edit: I would say, more the hit roles were strange, at best.
Champions is my all time favorite tabletop superhero game due to the enormous flexibility and customization of characters, so i'm slightly familiar with it. (Although i haven't actually played the game since a bit after 5th Edition was released.) As i recall most of the original CoH devs were also big Champions fans. Now for standard fantasy games i usually play D20 based games, mostly a 3.5 game set in the Forgotten Realms at the moment, but i've played a lot of non-D20 games.
The game does use a PRNG, which means it's not perfectly random, but over time is a good approximation of it.
However, even if it was an overly streaky RNG (which I don't believe it is), the hit rolls in the situations you're describing aren't actually sequential outputs from it. Between one attack and the next, the engine generates dozens, possibly hundreds of random numbers. Hit rolls for enemy attacks, hit rolls each tick for pulsing damage auras against each enemy in range, hit rolls for what any other players on the map are doing, hit rolls for each target of an AoE, drop table rolls if anything was defeated by an AoE, hit rolls for targets possibly affected by Gauntlet if you're a tanker, and so on.
IOW, you're getting a stream of pseudorandom numbers, which is being sampled at nondeterministic times based on user input and complex conditions. Even if the RNG isn't perfect, you're going to get pretty good entropy out of it due to inherent randomness in how the numbers are used. Arcana's statistical studies over the years support that result.
The really short version is that what makes a good PnP system is to have the expressive power to allow the GM and the players to have the latitude to create a good playing environment. What makes a good MMO system is that its mechanically predictable, and does what the designers intended when they aren't around to dictate what happens. Those two goals are largely incompatible.
I tried to explain this on the Champions Online beta boards, and boy was I hammered there (one helpful individual, because I was posting anonymously there, suggested that before I make such outrageous claims I go find Arcanaville on the CoH boards so that person could set me straight).
Numbers like that had no trouble repeating for me. I still wouldn't say it was biased but very very strange in behavior.
I tried to explain this on the Champions Online beta boards, and boy was I hammered there (one helpful individual, because I was posting anonymously there, suggested that before I make such outrageous claims I go find Arcanaville on the CoH boards so that person could set me straight).
I honestly don't see what the problem is from your description. For an attack with 87% chance tohit, the sequence hit, hit, miss will occur about ten percent of all attack chains. And the misses *have to be* similar numbers, because misses have to be between 87 and 100.
You're doing something called "double-counting." You are noting that you're seeing the third attack miss three times in a row which is uncommon, and the third roll is very similar which is uncommon, and asserting that's even more uncommon. But actually, you are describing the same event in two different non-independent ways.
What Codewalker is talking about is that if the rand was somehow generating non-random numbers, because its the same rand for a number of different players on the same server instance, the only way for you to see what you are seeing is not just for the rand to be broken, you would have to somehow pick out those weird rolls yourself. If just one other player fired an attack instead of not firing it, or held fire instead of firing it, your weird random number roll would disappear. Those other players would have to somehow be conspiring to take just the right number of random rolls to leave behind the ones that are generating your weird results. Even if you think the game server is acting strangely in some way, how could those other players possibly conspire with the server to do that? Because if they don't, nothing the server's random number generator does can slip those numbers to you.
Its like a deck of cards you are picking the top card off of. If you get a string of weird cards, you might think the deck was loaded that way. But if in between the cards you took a random number of people took a random number of cards for themselves, then the only way for your cards to show an unusual pattern would be for all those people to be in on the trick. Otherwise, they would disrupt any strangeness that was put into the deck.
What I discovered based on analyzing all of my tohit rolls was:
The game does use a PRNG, which means it's not perfectly random, but over time is a good approximation of it.
However, even if it was an overly streaky RNG (which I don't believe it is), the hit rolls in the situations you're describing aren't actually sequential outputs from it. Between one attack and the next, the engine generates dozens, possibly hundreds of random numbers. Hit rolls for enemy attacks, hit rolls each tick for pulsing damage auras against each enemy in range, hit rolls for what any other players on the map are doing, hit rolls for each target of an AoE, drop table rolls if anything was defeated by an AoE, hit rolls for targets possibly affected by Gauntlet if you're a tanker, and so on.
IOW, you're getting a stream of pseudorandom numbers, which is being sampled at nondeterministic times based on user input and complex conditions. Even if the RNG isn't perfect, you're going to get pretty good entropy out of it due to inherent randomness in how the numbers are used. Arcana's statistical studies over the years support that result.
I honestly don't see what the problem is from your description. For an attack with 87% chance tohit, the sequence hit, hit, miss will occur about ten percent of all attack chains. And the misses *have to be* similar numbers, because misses have to be between 87 and 100.
You're doing something called "double-counting." You are noting that you're seeing the third attack miss three times in a row which is uncommon, and the third roll is very similar which is uncommon, and asserting that's even more uncommon. But actually, you are describing the same event in two different non-independent ways.
What Codewalker is talking about is that if the rand was somehow generating non-random numbers, because its the same rand for a number of different players on the same server instance, the only way for you to see what you are seeing is not just for the rand to be broken, you would have to somehow pick out those weird rolls yourself. If just one other player fired an attack instead of not firing it, or held fire instead of firing it, your weird random number roll would disappear. Those other players would have to somehow be conspiring to take just the right number of random rolls to leave behind the ones that are generating your weird results. Even if you think the game server is acting strangely in some way, how could those other players possibly conspire with the server to do that? Because if they don't, nothing the server's random number generator does can slip those numbers to you.
Its like a deck of cards you are picking the top card off of. If you get a string of weird cards, you might think the deck was loaded that way. But if in between the cards you took a random number of people took a random number of cards for themselves, then the only way for your cards to show an unusual pattern would be for all those people to be in on the trick. Otherwise, they would disrupt any strangeness that was put into the deck.
I tried to explain this on the Champions Online beta boards, and boy was I hammered there (one helpful individual, because I was posting anonymously there, suggested that before I make such outrageous claims I go find Arcanaville on the CoH boards so that person could set me straight).
The one thing I noticed was that using temp powers in my chain messed up the streak breaker because of the lower accuracy of those attacks. Don't know if that was a "real" thing or not.
Moonlighter~
I had an idea that my random number "seed" or whatever was twisted, but how do you prove it.
I'm just going by experience of things I remember actually HAPPENING IN THE GAME. What part of that don't you understand?
What do you call it when you, the expert in question, are dismissed and told to go get the real answers from yourself, elsewhere? A mix of pride and exasperation? Prideration? Exasperide?
I'm just going by experience of things I remember actually HAPPENING IN THE GAME. What part of that don't you understand? ...Please note: what you are talking about is your observations, not mechanics. Read up on 'observational bias' and 'selective memory'.
I'm going by, again, what happened to ME when I played the game.
Hilarity. I have a copy of a PM from a CO player somewhere, sent to me after CO launched, thanking me for the work I did testing CO defensive secondaries. It goes on to state that he was thankful CO had players like me, rather than that despicable Arcanaville he disliked in City of Heroes for being a know-it-all.
You know, I did post under a different pseudonym there, but I made no effort to disguise my writing style. When someone materializes in CO and immediately starts talking about game design and testing defensive powers, I assumed I would be outed in days. It never happened. And its not like there were lots of other players doing that. Or any, really, to the degree I was, at that time. Sometimes I was posting about the exact same topic on both forums at the same time. I mean that should have been a dead giveaway for someone that was actually paying attention to my posts in both places, as apparently some people were (invariably, people who were not my greatest fans it seems).
The closest I came to outing myself came when someone on the CO forums began talking about how all the devs in CoH actually hated me and talked about me behind my back. BaB, in particular, was singled out for claiming I was a nuisance on a beta server chat channel. At that exact moment, I was working with BaB on a project he requested I look at, so I asked him about it. He said he had no idea why anyone would think that, but he said he was willing to post there personally to correct the record. The fact that he was willing to do that demonstrated to me it was all nonsense, and I told him not to bother. I decided it was better to just let it go.
Anyone who remembers what I had to deal with in this regard while the game was running knows I understand quite well. If you ever find any sort of log or evidence to support your recollection, let me know, I would be interested to analyze it. That data may contain evidence of some problem related to your observations which might be useful to future players of the game. Otherwise, I have no useful observations to make beyond the general admonishment to neutral observers that the stated behavior was mechanically impossible for the game engine.
Honestly it's something I'll do so should the game come back. I think though and was thinking about it that the new team may want to check into things on the server side. Because the to hit rolls themselves were server side, we could only see so much.
It shouldn't just be mechanically impossible but statistically impossible but what I mentioned happened to me, well, did :/. I was left surprised and it's the whole reason I asked the guy I asked.Please. Read up on 'observational bias' and 'selective memory'. It is, in fact, impossible for the game to behave like that. At this point, the mechanics are well-documented, and so thoroughly tested as to be pretty much zero on the 'mystery' scale.
swtor has problems with their implementation of the rng... things like a 20% of reverse engineering an item, rolling 142 times and not getting it. thats not that uncommon in swtor. a rng will explain variances in a lot of things and outcomes that just suck, but there are points that you have to question the code that applies the rng. it is always possible you made an oops. I never appreciated how accessable COX devs were to discuss the game they made.Hmm... 142 trials, 80% chance of failure...
Please note: what you are talking about is your observations, not mechanics. Read up on 'observational bias' and 'selective memory'.
What Arcana is talking about is how the game actually operates.
(note my emphasis in the quote)
all the devs in CoH actually hated me and talked about me behind my back. BaB, in particular, was singled out for claiming I was a nuisance on a beta server chat channel.
I remember the issues about accuracy, streakbreaker, toHit coming up in the CoH forums. I also remember (vaguely) someone suggesting we track our misses in game so that we'd have something to show, to demonstrate that it wasn't just our perceptions. Pretty sure the game's combat logs made it clear if we hit or missed a target. With that advice, I actually did what was suggested - and you know what? It was the craziest thing.
I stopped missing all the time.
I was going to close the combat log window to see if I started missing again, but I decided against it and kept it open.
Hmm... 142 trials, 80% chance of failure...
0.8^142 = 1.7x10^-14. Less than one in fifty-seven trillion. Pretty phenomenally unlikely, even with millions of players and hundreds of items to roll on.
I'd suggest that the "20% chance" may not actually be 20%. At a 5% chance of success per roll, you'd get 0.95^142 = 6.87x10^-4, or one in 1456 (and a bit). With several million players, this sort of thing being "not uncommon" would be entirely reasonable. But these sorts of errors are far more likely to be developer error - the tooltip has an old value that they lowered in alpha testing, or they accidentally set the success chance to 0.02 instead of 0.2, or something like that - than real faults in the random number generator. The RNG itself is a pretty standard piece of code most developers don't mess with, and the effects of a flawed or streaky RNG don't discriminate by player. Arcana can tell you what a bad RNG looks like, and it doesn't look like some "cursed" players never getting thing X after lots of tries. It's not the devs saying "screw you in particular". It's randomness being random over a large population, which means a few individuals getting unlikely results.
I feel awful. I paid little attention to the math and spent more time having fun.
Not saying you guys didn't have fun playing either....
A part of me wonders if Champions itself was the cause of the devs believing that the mathematics for designing a game like City of Heroes was not very difficult, and could be copied pretty much right from a PnP game.Absolutely agreed. Champions, and the Hero System in general, absolutely requires a human GM with an understanding of how the game works to be at all balanced. The most degenerate situation is one where the GM is inexperienced with the system and some or all of the players are experienced. Even without trying to aggressively min/max it's easy to come up with overpowered characters. Any MMO that tries to duplicate the character creation flexibility will run into the same issues without having an experienced GM monitoring all the characters, which no current MMO system can do without human assistance. Jack's insistence on hiding real numbers was an absurd attempt at keeping the players equally "inexperienced", which was ludicrous on several levels. It worked about as well as security through obscurity ever has.
It can't; there are complex mathematical reasons why this is a horrible idea that basically come down to three things:
1. In PnP games human GMs moderate the extremes. In fact, in many editions of Champions there are explicit warnings in the rulebooks strongly suggesting to human GMs that they either consider not even allowing the power or making sure its not abused by the players. Human GMs can look at a Fire/Fire tank that wants to run a mission with nothing but flammable villains and say "yeah, no." A computer will happily go along with that. If you want your character weakness in Champions to be lactose intolerance, fine, I'll let it go. Then I'll drown you with the Milk Monster.
2. PnP games are designed for a specific combat pace where coarser numbers generate controllable and manageable combat for the human beings. Computer games are designed for a far faster pace where small numerical issues can quickly snowball. If you were twice as powerful as the enemies in D&D, that still didn't mean you could blast through the game. That advantage was muted by the framework of the gameplay. In City of Heroes, if you were twice as powerful as the PvE critters, you could herd up a bunch and rapidly accelerate your kill rate. Combining #1 with #2 could obliterate whole zones.
3. In PnP games, the numerical combat is only a small fraction of everything that goes on. In most MMOs, its 90% of what goes on. You can't make up for loose combat with other activities. Champions was *horribly* unbalanced. It was *balanced enough* for humans to play it. But numerically speaking, the designers didn't do all that great a job with it, in spite of what many players think. And what's more, the designers knew it: they knew that the system allowed for ridiculous extremes and presumed human GMs would leverage that when possible and control it when necessary.
The really short version is that what makes a good PnP system is to have the expressive power to allow the GM and the players to have the latitude to create a good playing environment. What makes a good MMO system is that its mechanically predictable, and does what the designers intended when they aren't around to dictate what happens. Those two goals are largely incompatible.
I tried to explain this on the Champions Online beta boards, and boy was I hammered there (one helpful individual, because I was posting anonymously there, suggested that before I make such outrageous claims I go find Arcanaville on the CoH boards so that person could set me straight).
Some unpredictability makes for more interesting games, but I do see what you mean there. The sad thing is CO would behave even less consistently then any other game I played to be honest, in that there were so many bugs that people found ways to become invincible, or pull off 10,000 damage hits from attacks that should have only done at the most a tenth of that. Go figure.Which was actually a pretty good recreation of playing pnp Champions with a newbie GM. i had a Martial Artist character in one friend's game who was a *bit* overpowered. Not because of any single power being OP by itself, but because of how the various offensive and defensive abilities i had taken stacked together to make a character who was extremely hard to stop or defend against without employing fairly exotic/tailored attacks and defenses. This wasn't really deliberate, it's just the GM used pretty straightforward and simplistic NPC designs. That and the borderline absurd amount of active points in Dex. In my defense i hadn't played in a while and he hadn't set an active point limit on characteristics. :o
I feel awful. I paid little attention to the math and spent more time having fun.i rarely paid close attention to the math while actually playing even though it was always something i was always aware of at the back of my mind, so to speak. It mostly came to the fore when i wasn't actively in combat. Awareness of the underlying math has always enhanced my enjoyment of any activity.
Not saying you guys didn't have fun playing either....
I feel awful. I paid little attention to the math and spent more time having fun.I spent all my time in game having fun. Whatever I was doing, it was fun; if it wasn't fun, I stopped doing it.
Not saying you guys didn't have fun playing either....
I spent all my time in game having fun. Whatever I was doing, it was fun; if it wasn't fun, I stopped doing it.
I feel awful. I paid little attention to the math and spent more time having fun.
Not saying you guys didn't have fun playing either....
Same here, I never worried about the math. Just what was fun for me. When I started playing I had to do math all day at my job, didn't really want to worry about it when I was home.
Some of us found the math to be fun.
Personally, I found the math to be a means to more fun. I...had a thing for building characters that were as O.P. as humanly possible, heh.
Some of us found the math to be fun.
Personally, I found the math to be a means to more fun. I...had a thing for building characters that were as O.P. as humanly possible, heh.
I feel awful. I paid little attention to the math and spent more time having fun.
Not saying you guys didn't have fun playing either....
I feel awful. I paid little attention to the math and spent more time having fun.
Not saying you guys didn't have fun playing either....
Alright, everyone. Let's take a break from these CRAZY long 'math' posts (seriously, my head is starting to hurt lol) and watch a video about what it would be like to have the Power Rangers in Paragon:
http://youtu.be/RqKkGYH4lPY
God, I miss this. I wonder if there's ANYTHING we can do in the meantime to help Nate and his team out? Anything at all? Or do we have no choice but to play the waiting game until a decision is made? I'd like to assist, if I can.
#arewethereyet?
Alright, everyone. Let's take a break from these CRAZY long 'math' posts (seriously, my head is starting to hurt lol) and watch a video about what it would be like to have the Power Rangers in Paragon:
http://youtu.be/RqKkGYH4lPY
...Wait, how did he get a 1586 hit at the 0:57ish mark?
Please. Read up on 'observational bias' and 'selective memory'. It is, in fact, impossible for the game to behave like that. At this point, the mechanics are well-documented, and so thoroughly tested as to be pretty much zero on the 'mystery' scale.
Please note: what you are talking about is your observations, not mechanics. Read up on 'observational bias' and 'selective memory'.
What Arcana is talking about is how the game actually operates.
(note my emphasis in the quote)
^ Well, prove it then! Give Arcana your combat logs for analysis. Otherwise, anecdotal evidence and observational bias.
Why the hell would I have combat logs from a machine from 4-5 years ago on a game that shut down? HOLY pancaking COW! You guys really do think I'm a stinking lower then life evil liar who deserves to die then!?!?!?!
I WOULD if I had the pancaking things, now i'm getting angry at everyone here for this. This is unforgivable, this is like those days when that one kid lied to teachers who KNEW he was lying and STILL punished ME for it EVERY TIME.
You guys have the audacity to just call me a liar over a thing like this when the game is shut down so I have no way to pancaking prove things like that happen!? I would love to have this game bakc now purely so I could. I'll never forget this. Nore will I get over it unless you guys apologize RIGHT NOW for causing me to get post traumatic memories all over again.
Why the hell would I have combat logs from a machine from 4-5 years ago on a game that shut down? HOLY pancaking COW! You guys really do think I'm a stinking lower then life evil liar who deserves to die then!?!?!?!
I WOULD if I had the pancaking things, now i'm getting angry at everyone here for this. This is unforgivable, this is like those days when that one kid lied to teachers who KNEW he was lying and STILL punished ME for it EVERY TIME.
You guys have the audacity to just call me a liar over a thing like this when the game is shut down so I have no way to pancaking prove things like that happen!? I would love to have this game bakc now purely so I could. I'll never forget this. Nore will I get over it unless you guys apologize RIGHT NOW for causing me to get post traumatic memories all over again.
So your saying i'm lying or something? (*facepalms*)
No one is calling you a liar. They are saying that your memory is faulty in regards to what you believe happened whether it did or not. The fact is you don't have the data to prove what you experienced. They have data that shows what you claim can't happen. From my point of view your case is weaker. Eyewitness testimony is pretty unreliable unless it has been witnessed by multiple party's and even then it can be whole wrong.
You are sure you are right, but have no proof. They are sure they are right and have proof. Be positive and say that when the game comes back you will secure the proof that you are right and I am certain that they will all apologize. If you are wrong then you can apologize.
Seriously, arguing with math is a bad idea unless you have maths on your side and right now you don't.
When people say that these phenomena apply to human cognition, they are including themselves.
(Insert mandatory joke about Arcanaville really being a computer instead of a human here)
It....sigh....sorry guys I just tend to lose it when, meh. My memory in a way had become a curse for me, it kills my morale and my mood when I see things that trigger those memories(just the mere sight of a bully on TV is often enough let alone this :S).
I don't think anyone's calling you a liar. I know I'm not. As a matter of fact, I believe I started this whole thing when I brought up my observation about Twilight Grasp.
That being said, I do think that observational bias is the easiest solution for these kinds of observations. Now observational bias cannot be proved any more than any bug in the code simply because there is no code to look through.
There could only be a couple of people on this forum who might have accessed the game engine directly and seen the code (and I don't even know this). Everyone else is really just spouting an opinion, Including those whose opinion is Arcana and Codewalker are correct... well, that might be more of a theorem at this point. :)
Excuse me. I did not insert that kind of joke.
Mine was more of a Arcana's a math professor kind of thing. :)
Could be all three of us are on to something. Trying to calm down but may be that random number god can still occur, go figure. May be more to it then any of us suspect, I mean do we have the code for the server side of things?
But I do wish the game to come back because as I said, I remember seeing those kinds of things happening that some people say shouldn't be. I agree they shouldn't have but go figure they did.
*checks the rulebook*
Does seem to fit in with the general tradition of forum in-jokes about Arcanaville.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=hotmeme.net%2Fmedia%2Fi%2Fe%2F3%2Fcxk-for-future-use-glab-futurama-im-going-to-allow-this.jpg)
...Wait, how did he get a 1586 hit at the 0:57ish mark?
Any new information on the progress of the deal yet?
Any new information on the progress of the deal yet?
see my edit
I had a standing invitation on the forums for anyone who thought they could either demonstrate this to me in-game, or log it.
Apparently, turning on logging made the effect go away. It seems chatlogs were an accuracy buff.
Keep in mind, I spent hundreds of hours investigating *all* credible or common reports like this. On the basis of those investigations I discovered that luck and insight inspirations were mislabeled, a reward randon number generator was bugged, two separate defense buffs accidentally got dropped from the code but not the patch notes, and a bunch of other strange or extremely hard to find (prior to real numbers at least) bugs. I was definitely not ignoring those reports. But this sort of thing would have been trivial for me to detect if it actually existed, and I tested for this effect on different powersets, on different archetypes, at different times, on different servers, in different combat conditions. I had people tell me that the reason why I couldn't find it was because you had to pop an odd number of yellows and use an attack on a whole number animation frame for it to work - and I specifically engineered a test to check for that.
Understand: everyone who believed this believed it was all but obvious. Exactly zero of them could either make it happen in my presence or have it happen while they were chatlogging. It *only* happened when the only thing looking were players, and nothing was actually recording the event. Also, something most players didn't know: the servers logged these events. On two separate occasions I asked the devs to check *server logs* based on a player's report of the event, and the servers disagreed with the player's recollection of the events. It took too much effort to ask the devs to check logs unless I was absolutely certain, and after going to bat for the players twice to check on this kind of event I imposed a "you have to convince me first" rule before I would take it to the devs. For this specific issue, no player ever achieved that mark.
Too bad you got rid of the PhD part, it was worth saving. I deal with that on a daily basis and fully agree. Letters after your name don't make you infallible.
Nope. I would imagine that Team Hail Mary will make a separate post in this forum if it ever gets to the point where CoX is being resurrected (or even if the deal ends permanently with a "No").
As it took them 10 months just to get introduced to the right person so they could begin talks, and the first iteration of a proposed deal was just put onto NCSoft's table to peruse this past July, I doubt we'll hear much of anything for a while. I'm guessing it won't be until next year the earliest if we ever hear anything more at all, but that's just my guess based upon how slowly NCSoft moves, and how little of a priority a decade-old game they shuttered due to its lack of importance to them could ever be in their eyes. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
I know it's hard, though. I keep thinking how nice it would be to be hitting the slopes of the ski chalet this Christmastime, even if it was with a level 1. :)
Did anyone run mastermind pets when they would go batpoop crazy leave the fight go back down a corridor and go into a room you already cleared, stand and flex at some invisible foe Dragonball Z style?
Did anyone run mastermind pets when they would go batpoop crazy leave the fight go back down a corridor and go into a room you already cleared, stand and flex at some invisible foe Dragonball Z style?
it actually happens in horror movies.:p
Cant' say I did. Did you know that I once discovered a new status condition? If you Terrorized someone and put them in the tremble stance, then stunned them, the critter would sometimes just start walking slowly away in a straight line. I called this state "Oblivious" because they could not even be taunted out of that mode until it wore off.
Fear + Disorient = Oblivious. Strangely, that actually makes sense; it actually happens in horror movies.
Cant' say I did. Did you know that I once discovered a new status condition? If you Terrorized someone and put them in the tremble stance, then stunned them, the critter would sometimes just start walking slowly away in a straight line. I called this state "Oblivious" because they could not even be taunted out of that mode until it wore off.
Fear + Disorient = Oblivious. Strangely, that actually makes sense; it actually happens in horror movies.
Too bad you got rid of the PhD part, it was worth saving. I deal with that on a daily basis and fully agree. Letters after your name don't make you infallible.
That makes it official. I will be making a Dark/Nrg Dom if the game returns.
That sounds worth it to me.
Mastermind pets had notoriously bad AI. Shame they were never able to fix that, but then the AT probably would have been even more stupid overpowered than it already was.
Arcanabilivious?
Obliville?
Obshadious?
Horror Movie Karma Monster?
Mastermind pets had notoriously bad AI. Shame they were never able to fix that, but then the AT probably would have been even more stupid overpowered than it already was.
I think ninjas/mercs were the worst. I could very well be wrong, but in my personal experience these two would go apeshit any chance they got. Bots were great to me, rarely did I have a problem with them.
I think ninjas/mercs were the worst. I could very well be wrong, but in my personal experience these two would go apeshit any chance they got. Bots were great to me, rarely did I have a problem with them.
I hear ninjas were spazzes that did melee all the time. Bots were great and so were my mercs, pack animals were ok. Never got into thugs for long, and I never tried the demons or the undead. All of them I used had AI issues where I would have to click the follow me on passive macro a TON to get them to leave crap alone.
bots were my fav MM set.
But it dose make your name sound better :P. Look at Stephen Colbert.
Her Excellency The Rev. Sir Doctor Stephen Tyrone Mos Def Colbert, D.F.A., Heavyweight Champion of the World✱✱ featuring Flo Rida La Premiere Dame De France
Cant' say I did. Did you know that I once discovered a new status condition? If you Terrorized someone and put them in the tremble stance, then stunned them, the critter would sometimes just start walking slowly away in a straight line. I called this state "Oblivious" because they could not even be taunted out of that mode until it wore off.
Fear + Disorient = Oblivious. Strangely, that actually makes sense; it actually happens in horror movies.
Champions is my all time favorite tabletop superhero game due to the enormous flexibility and customization of characters, so i'm slightly familiar with it. (Although i haven't actually played the game since a bit after 5th Edition was released.) As i recall most of the original CoH devs were also big Champions fans. Now for standard fantasy games i usually play D20 based games, mostly a 3.5 game set in the Forgotten Realms at the moment, but i've played a lot of non-D20 games.
I think ninjas/mercs were the worst. I could very well be wrong, but in my personal experience these two would go apeshit any chance they got. Bots were great to me, rarely did I have a problem with them.
Same here, tried the others and didn't like them. Even demons.
I hated the random KB in Robot laser blasts. LASERS. Those stupid things broke up the team I had with my wife's Plant/Energy dom :(
Why? Entangle and Roots both do -KB. If anything a Plant Dom was the perfect partner.
Yeah, the demons talked back to much. Had to fire them.
Timing, and their stupid 'run into melee' - it annoyed her to no end.
I had much better luck with Zombies and Thugs, even with the suicidal Arsonist.
I'd like an opinion please; having just rewatched TRON, TRON UPRISING and TRON LEGACY I've been trying to think of what TRON would be in CoH.
Scrapper is the most likely class or else brute. Then again brute may be more Rinzler then TRON.
But the power sets? Shield? Doesn't have a throw shield attack but you can still make an energy shield for thematic reasons. Energy armor? Seems fitting. Electric armor?
For melee: staff fighting? staffs were used as weapons in the franchise. Street justice? Martial arts?
Kinetic Melee. Even has a ranged attack. As for the defense, costume auras make about any set work but shield with one of the pure energy shields on your costume would do the trick.
I'd like an opinion please; having just rewatched TRON, TRON UPRISING and TRON LEGACY I've been trying to think of what TRON would be in CoH.
Scrapper is the most likely class or else brute. Then again brute may be more Rinzler then TRON.
But the power sets? Shield? Doesn't have a throw shield attack but you can still make an energy shield for thematic reasons. Energy armor? Seems fitting. Electric armor?
For melee: staff fighting? staffs were used as weapons in the franchise. Street justice? Martial arts?
I hated the random KB in Robot laser blasts. LASERS. Those stupid things broke up the team I had with my wife's Plant/Energy dom :(
An ancient memory just poked at me, and I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this issue.
Why did Staff Fighting have a breakdancing move, where the character would spin around on its back, as part of its animation? Eye of the Storm was the power in question, I believe. Looked a bit silly and out of place, IMO.
An ancient memory just poked at me, and I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this issue.
Why did Staff Fighting have a breakdancing move, where the character would spin around on its back, as part of its animation? Eye of the Storm was the power in question, I believe. Looked a bit silly and out of place, IMO.
... our forums ... were far better than most
There's no shame in admitting that you had no interest in discussing the dry mathematics of the game.
But, I had tolerance and compassion for those who loved sets.
Gotta do something with that cash and merits.
Anyways...this is awesome in a can and I sincerely hope you can pull it off, if you guys need funding for it yell and i will go on the ramen diet and put every last extra cent I have into the pot for it.
Pfft Pots, the ramen i buy is in styrofoam cups.
How did zombie damage hold up to bots? I had a reasonably old bots, but wanted to try zombies.
Cups!? CUPS!? Luxury!!
The Ramen I buy is 20 years past its sell by date, has been eaten 3 times already, is made out of straw, AND I have to eat it out of a muddy puddle!
There was usually knock immunity applied to immobs....I'd also say though, that incarnated masterminds with reactive actually melted enemies lightning fast, so much so knockback couldn't do anything. Then there was the knockback to knockdown IO.....
It wasn't the damage so much as the lack of random KB and more dependable combat actions.
I ran a Zombie/Time and was reasonably satisfied with their effectiveness.
I kept my Bots/Devices as a solo toon and it played just fine, pets don't care about KB :)
Yeah, the demons talked back to much. Had to fire them.
How did zombie damage hold up to bots? I had a reasonably old bots, but wanted to try zombies.
No, no no, they just wanted something to do. I had a simple /em macro to get the posse to emote.
...
If I had my way, I would have the three BEST minions go fight and leave the three lil ones to follow me on defensive to keep some protection when I needed it and also have a way to split those three hi and three low ones to two separate points to fight (to get a lil cross fire going AND to keep the AoEs from killing them all in a hot minute).
Demons/Dark was well rounded. Demons had resistance to all but En,Neg, and Psy and the Ember demon had an AOE buff aura that did the same. Dark Miasmos buffed En,Neg, and Psy. So if you kept the Ember near, you and all friendlies nearby had a resistance to all 8 elements.
Another player once advised me on how to get over my sets hang-up: just go into Mids' and play around with them. Mm... that wasn't my idea of "play".
Great memories of doing the last 5 levels on my demon mm during halloween in grandville. a team of 8 with 4 or 5 masterminds at the garage doors trick or treating..enemies just dissolving in front of us.
I remember returning to the game once burn was unnerfed. @Daleaha, a player on Liberty who had a zillion badges, told me about IO sets. I'd just teamed with him and saw him tank Lord Recluse with a blaster (he made wise use of purples, but still!) That was all I needed to see.
But, copying builds from the forums and tweaking them to suit my own style of play - it was a bit of drudgery at first, but once I saw how it all came together, it got easier.
Yes, I'd rather have been playing for that hour I spent on mids'. But, I think it may have saved me time in the long run with more efficient playing. Less time spent waiting for endurance, less time being face planted, etc.
Cups!? CUPS!? Luxury!!
The Ramen I buy is 20 years past its sell by date, has been eaten 3 times already, is made out of straw, AND I have to eat it out of a muddy puddle!
You were lucky... ;D
George MacDonald, one of the three developers of Champions, actually worked on CoH for a while.Champions or CoH secrets? Not that Champions had many secrets other than maybe the hodge-podge of lore that was constantly being revised anyway. The rest of the system was pretty clear, so i'm guessing CoH secrets.
Sadly, he would never share game secrets with me. :'(
An ancient memory just poked at me, and I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this issue.Because if you watch videos of staff-based martial arts there are actual moves very much like that. As a martial art staff fighting tends to be rather acrobatic and dance-like, much like capeoira.
Why did Staff Fighting have a breakdancing move, where the character would spin around on its back, as part of its animation? Eye of the Storm was the power in question, I believe. Looked a bit silly and out of place, IMO.
Cups!? CUPS!? Luxury!!
The Ramen I buy is 20 years past its sell by date, has been eaten 3 times already, is made out of straw, AND I have to eat it out of a muddy puddle!
My characters were mostly recharge whores
There was no time in the existence of the game that any archetype wasn't overpowered relative to the game's balance standard for players with sufficient dedication to maximal slotting and optimal gameplay.Epic post. It definitely wasn't the imagination of Blaster players that they were behind other AT's. The running joke about dying was a running joke for a reason. :) And you are absolutely right that the top tier players should not be who the game is balanced around.
The game wasn't designed to be balanced around maximal slotting and optimal gameplay. It was designed around the median player performance, as determined by watching all the players who played the game and measuring their median performance. Under that metric, there was never a single moment in the existence of the game where blasters as an archetype were not severely underperforming all other archetypes. We're talking 25%-50% underperformance.
That's not 25%-50% under the other archetypes. That's 25%-50% under the median performance: many archetypes were over the median performance, which made the gap between blasters and the higher performing archetypes (i.e. scrappers) higher than that. The single largest contributor to this underperformance was that blasters were dying at a far higher rate than all other archetypes. Solo, teamed, low level, intermediate level, high level, max level. In all types of content. The numbers say that if you think you were doing well on a blaster, there were ten players doing just as well on every other archetype and a hundred players doing vastly worse on blasters. If you didn't see this, your experience was not representative of the playerbase as a whole.
The truth is, nobody cares about min/maxers or the power gaming elite, nor should they. The developers didn't need to care about us. We could always excel under any circumstances. The devs cared about the typical player, because those were the ones that kept the lights on. They represented the bulk of the players, the bulk of the playing time, and the bulk of the subscription revenue. They needed the game to present a roughly level playing field to them, and that's ultimately where the devs spent most of their energy. And I would have eviscerated them if they hadn't.
My calculations suggested that in broad strokes, I24 blasters when played by the average player would probably be in the general vicinity of I23 median performance in solo play during leveling conditions. Slightly under on average, but close enough. My worry was that the collateral buffs on archetypes like defenders and corruptors would increase the median performance enough to where blasters would fall below the median again. But I think at least for the average player, blasters would start to become competitive with scrappers as offensively focused characters.
The people already farming +2x8 with blasters? The I24 buffs would have less of an impact on them relative to average players in most cases, because those players were already reaching saturation levels of power that small to moderate buffs have more difficulty improving. And if they did, small price to pay to improve things for the other 95% of players. The same thing happened with the invention system. It let the 5% become far more powerful, but it also lifted most of the other 95% to moderate levels of performance far more consistent with the newer balance standard for players post-I5 (particularly when it came to soloing).
I always wanted a Clowns MM set. Can you imagine anything more evil?That's friggin' awesome!
When summoned they could all drive up in one little car and climb out one at a time.
Squirting acid flower attack. Confetti bucket confuse attack. One of the little red rubber bulb brass horns used in a sonic attack. Giant mallet. Little ankle biting dogs, it all works!
Just too much fun to be had!
I can certainly understand if you started playing a Scrapper or Tank.. and then tried a blaster.. its an immediate shock.. and Level 35-45 feel like an eternity...I thought I remembered reading that more people started with Blasters than any other AT. (I know I did) So my "shock" was when I tried a different AT and found out how much easier they were! ;D
GRRR, all this discussion about blasters makes me pine for good old Defiance, I wish it could be implemented in COH 1.5 instead of that ultra-lame "able to use T1 and T2 primary attacks while mezzed", old defiance was thousands of times more epicI found that to be a huge improvement. So many times I was able to get out of a jam because I was able to deal damage while mezzed.
But surprisingly, the toon I loved the most needed the most help to finish those last 5 levels to 50, my Ninja MM did great solo to 45, but could not go past that on her own. Folks would reject MMs for their teams seemingly automatically, and forget ITrials, no one wanted to allow Pets in ITrials.I loved MM's as well, but I couldn't help noticing that teams would rather not deal with the pets. They were two of my solo only toons. A solo Incarnate path would definitely help out there.
While I understand, it made me wish longingly for a solo path to incarnate content.
That is what I would like to see the most if new content does come along, a choice of solo incarnate paths. ;)
Wormhole was fun :) LGTF mission 4, wormholed the Rikti into the Hamidon and sat back and watched the fun.Love Wormhole. One of the many powers that could give you big laughs.
I played many, many blasters, and really hated the argument that blasters didn't need defense because they had range. It didn't make much difference when the mobs had ranged attacks that could easily neutralize a blaster in just a couple hits (base damage plus DOT).I used to read that on the old forum. "Range is your defense!". I would immediately wonder why my secondary had so many melee powers if that were true. There is no way the AT was designed to stay at range when you look at the secondaries.
I remember how the boards would explode anytime the subject of Mind Control not having "pets"Awww! No love for Singy, Poo-Man, Snowman, and all the Illusion pets? I loved those guys! None of them are nearly as dumb as imps either. Way less irritation. ;D
came up and how so many folks said that Mind Control was worthless because of it.
Of course, when folks talked about Controller pets, what they really meant was "fire imps"...
Understand: everyone who believed this believed it was all but obvious. Exactly zero of them could either make it happen in my presence or have it happen while they were chatlogging. It *only* happened when the only thing looking were players, and nothing was actually recording the event.That instantly made me think of the Invisible Boy from Mystery Men. (my favorite comic book movie) He could only turn invisible when no one was watching.
See... To make sure Revival plays like CoH... I'm just going to ask Arcana to beta test.*like* (we need a like button)
I spent all my time in game having fun. Whatever I was doing, it was fun; if it wasn't fun, I stopped doing it.QFT
Spider-man "tanked" tons of baddies well above his pay grade thanks to (coughpopularityandhackwritingcough) dodging and bravely running away! Why can't we?!The ultimate writer-power has to be Batman. There are writers who actually write stories where he can not just survive a fight with Superman for more than a split-second...but actually win! That's gotta be the craziest, most illogical story ever.
Also... Inspirations are as good as the writers being on your side on COH. Right?
I always wanted a Clowns MM set. Can you imagine anything more evil?
When summoned they could all drive up in one little car and climb out one at a time.
Squirting acid flower attack. Confetti bucket confuse attack. One of the little red rubber bulb brass horns used in a sonic attack. Giant mallet. Little ankle biting dogs, it all works!
Just too much fun to be had!
Edited to add schtuff!
We're almost there! ;D
Maybe you should shop at a store that rotates their stock a little. Just saying.
Enlightenment is thisaway! => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
They are so funny. I remember when they ran the Circus every Saturday night after SNL in the 70's. Great fun.
I am very tired. I miss City. It would be nice to have it installed and fully playable right now, because this week really looks like it's going to be un-fun: lots of work and a court date Friday. :(
Here's hoping that now the mask is off that the deal can skate right along and business will conclude amicably for all.
As an atheist and non-Santa-Claus believer (sawry, dude) I can never say I'm praying for this, as prayer has been conclusively proven to do nothing whatsoever.
At the same time, I WANT this, and I HOPE for this, and I'm totally with you on this. "Please,oh, please, oh, please" is not really a prayer. But damned if I haven't been muttering it anyway. Not sure why. Maybe it's just human nature showing itself despite our advancements and my attempts to evolve beyond it all.
As a protestant christian and one who believes in the historical deeds of Saint Nicholas, I'm not praying to God for CoX either. But I do hope for our game to return, and I hope the people at the forefront of this venture find success. But this should not the place for a discussion on faith and religion juxtaposed against personal entertainment and virtual game worlds.As someone who doesn't have any particular stake in the validity or lack thereof of any combination of gods, spirits, and ineffable entities i agree with all sentiments expressing a desire to play again. Go team!
As someone who doesn't have any particular stake in the validity or lack thereof of any combination of gods, spirits, and ineffable entities i agree with all sentiments expressing a desire to play again. Go team!
Right, that's it! I'm getting fed up with waiting now.Vile Harkonnen! Keep your rags on!
Either give me my game back now, or I start taking clothes off!
I believe in pie.I believe in Cake.
I believe I'll have more pie and cake! ;D
A la mode!pie...
I believe in Cake.
Well unfortunately, the cake is a lie.
As an atheist and non-Santa-Claus believer (sawry, dude) I can never say I'm praying for this, as prayer has been conclusively proven to do nothing whatsoever.
At the same time, I WANT this, and I HOPE for this, and I'm totally with you on this. "Please,oh, please, oh, please" is not really a prayer. But damned if I haven't been muttering it anyway. Not sure why. Maybe it's just human nature showing itself despite our advancements and my attempts to evolve beyond it all.
a quote:
Why did Staff Fighting have a breakdancing move, where the character would spin around on its back, as part of its animation? Eye of the Storm was the power in question, I believe. Looked a bit silly and out of place, IMO.
a response:
Because if you watch videos of staff-based martial arts there are actual moves very much like that. As a martial art staff fighting tends to be rather acrobatic and dance-like, much like capeoira.
My comment:
I hated that animation and refused to take the power because of it, or rather, I respec'd out of it first chance I got. Same went for Hail of Bullets in the Duel Pistols set, I never took that power.
As an atheist and non-Santa-Claus believer (sawry, dude) I can never say I'm praying for this, as prayer has been conclusively proven to do nothing
OK, can we keep the baiting for a religious argument out of this topic? This is not a topic for such discussion.
Vile Harkonnen! Keep your rags on!
T for Teen, sir!
Strictly speaking, he did not specify whose clothes he would be taking off. Maybe he's going around to the homes of all those weird people who dress their pets up like they were people and engaging in some vigilante pet justice?
Right, that's it! I'm getting fed up with waiting now.
Either give me my game back now, or I start taking clothes off!
I've met FFM. I'm hoping he's planning to take the clothes off [redacted], [redacted], or [redacted]. Because the sight of FFM in the nud falls under "glory that mortal eyes were never meant to see".
Make of that what you will.
Don't you mean Feyd-Rautha, not the Baron?
Vile Harkonnen! Keep your rags on!Can't we all just get along? :D Btw I like cake and pie for the win :D
T for Teen, sir!
Staff fighting - pained me. I have done bojitsu for 39 years now and have done great weapons fighting in the SCA for 24. I even offered to send video's of strikes and combinations that would look good in the game, instead we got something I refuse to play.
It is ugly and with none of the flowing smooth movement or the quick strikes that I love.
As a martial artist - I can't play it - shudders.
Staff fighting - pained me. I have done bojitsu for 39 years now and have done great weapons fighting in the SCA for 24. I even offered to send video's of strikes and combinations that would look good in the game, instead we got something I refuse to play.
It is ugly and with none of the flowing smooth movement or the quick strikes that I love.
As a martial artist - I can't play it - shudders.
No, he means me alright... For I am glorious!
Staff fighting - pained me. I have done bojitsu for 39 years now and have done great weapons fighting in the SCA for 24. I even offered to send video's of strikes and combinations that would look good in the game, instead we got something I refuse to play.
It is ugly and with none of the flowing smooth movement or the quick strikes that I love.
As a martial artist - I can't play it - shudders.
Staff fighting - pained me. I have done bojitsu for 39 years now and have done great weapons fighting in the SCA for 24. I even offered to send video's of strikes and combinations that would look good in the game, instead we got something I refuse to play.
It is ugly and with none of the flowing smooth movement or the quick strikes that I love.
As a martial artist - I can't play it - shudders.
Haha a lot of the Kanata attacks are wrong as well you would never do a jumping spin for an aoe. There is a Ryu that does a leaping attack. Flashing steal is one that is a common cut. Spinning upper cut (Golden dragon) makes me laugh
The funniest thing, the most impractical weapon, titan weapons, which would be impossible to yield anyways, not to mention swinging something smaller would allow you to do more damage with such strength, at the very least the characters behave with some slight attention to the physics; they don't swing it cloud style and they just let the weapon carry them. But then I'm often left pondering, how the hell would a titan weapon/LR avoid anything when they couldn't change directions or anything when swinging such a collosal, impractical weapon? It's silly in a way, though not to say I didn't like titan weapons(fav weapon set actually, so much funny AoE).
I think the big issue with the melee weapons is theres to much time for an opponent to anticipate the moves from them though. And course, the fact that they all draw from the back, which I already posted a video made by someone who pointed out why it's a very, very bad idea.
Vile Harkonnen! Keep your rags on!
T for Teen, sir!
But then I'm often left pondering, how the hell would a titan weapon/LR avoid anything when they couldn't change directions or anything when swinging such a collosal, impractical weapon?
The funniest thing, the most impractical weapon, titan weapons, which would be impossible to yield anyways, not to mention swinging something smaller would allow you to do more damage with such strength, at the very least the characters behave with some slight attention to the physics; they don't swing it cloud style and they just let the weapon carry them. But then I'm often left pondering, how the hell would a titan weapon/LR avoid anything when they couldn't change directions or anything when swinging such a collosal, impractical weapon? It's silly in a way, though not to say I didn't like titan weapons(fav weapon set actually, so much funny AoE).
I think the big issue with the melee weapons is theres to much time for an opponent to anticipate the moves from them though. And course, the fact that they all draw from the back, which I already posted a video made by someone who pointed out why it's a very, very bad idea.
in a game that I am arresting purse snatchers with radiation poisoning, excessive force doesnt seem to be a problem. having my demons restore the "peace" with hellfire is right there next to that.Yes, the game left it up to you to define what "defeated" meant, but I'm hard pressed to come up with a non-lethal definition of a "Decapitation" attack. Still, I've had friends who insisted that the villains they "defeated" all ended up safely in the Zig, whereas I insisted that I killed every last one of them and spared the taxpayers the expense of housing them (briefly, until they broke out again later that afternoon). Seriously, why do they even bother processing prisoners in at the Zig?
Staff fighting - pained me. I have done bojitsu for 39 years now and have done great weapons fighting in the SCA for 24. I even offered to send video's of strikes and combinations that would look good in the game, instead we got something I refuse to play.
It is ugly and with none of the flowing smooth movement or the quick strikes that I love.
As a martial artist - I can't play it - shudders.
Yes, the game left it up to you to define what "defeated" meant, but I'm hard pressed to come up with a non-lethal definition of a "Decapitation" attack. Still, I've had friends who insisted that the villains they "defeated" all ended up safely in the Zig, whereas I insisted that I killed every last one of them and spared the taxpayers the expense of housing them (briefly, until they broke out again later that afternoon).
Yes, the game left it up to you to define what "defeated" meant, but I'm hard pressed to come up with a non-lethal definition of a "Decapitation" attack. Still, I've had friends who insisted that the villains they "defeated" all ended up safely in the Zig, whereas I insisted that I killed every last one of them and spared the taxpayers the expense of housing them (briefly, until they broke out again later that afternoon). Seriously, why do they even bother processing prisoners in at the Zig?The ones you killed did not break out later that day...their CLONES were set lose!
My favorite superhero was always Frank Castle. He knew the right way how to deal with violent criminals...permanently. I never had any real respect for the idiotic catch-and-release superheroes who never seemed to notice that maybe they should try something else after the 100th time their mortal nemesis escaped from prison yet again...
The ones you killed did not break out later that day...their CLONES were set lose!
Tell that to Mother Mayhem.
Honestly I wish instead of using game ratings that alternate textures/sounds existed for parental controls... Sort of a way for parents to censor out content they don't want minors seeing.
Wholeheartedly agree.
That, and I hate when people make statements that have no links to back up such statements. You can't make a statement like "conclusively proven" without linking to said study that "conclusively proved" it.
Otherwise, just leave it alone. ;)
Yes, the game left it up to you to define what "defeated" meant, but I'm hard pressed to come up with a non-lethal definition of a "Decapitation" attack. Still, I've had friends who insisted that the villains they "defeated" all ended up safely in the Zig, whereas I insisted that I killed every last one of them and spared the taxpayers the expense of housing them (briefly, until they broke out again later that afternoon). Seriously, why do they even bother processing prisoners in at the Zig?
My favorite superhero was always Frank Castle. He knew the right way how to deal with violent criminals...permanently. I never had any real respect for the idiotic catch-and-release superheroes who never seemed to notice that maybe they should try something else after the 100th time their mortal nemesis escaped from prison yet again...
While you could always pretend to be the like the great Hitokiri Battōsai when it comes to Katana you where a great swordsman that warder and defend the weak to pay for him crimes and used a reverse blade sword. See you just bashed in there heads and sent them to the hospital but hey you did not cut of his head it is all goodIf you leave them alive, I say the job's not done.
Its also possible Paragon City was a Westworld amusement park for meta humans. It explains the fake currency, why we all thought we defeated the same Frostfire, and why the same woman has been getting her purse stolen on every block of the City for over ten years.
in a game that I am arresting purse snatchers with radiation poisoning, excessive force doesnt seem to be a problem. having my demons restore the "peace" with hellfire is right there next to that.
Yes, the game left it up to you to define what "defeated" meant, but I'm hard pressed to come up with a non-lethal definition of a "Decapitation" attack. Still, I've had friends who insisted that the villains they "defeated" all ended up safely in the Zig, whereas I insisted that I killed every last one of them and spared the taxpayers the expense of housing them (briefly, until they broke out again later that afternoon). Seriously, why do they even bother processing prisoners in at the Zig?Of course there are a few places in the real world where if you have the power (and the agreement of the local authorities to look the other way while you exercise it) you can execute people on the spot for crimes as vicious as vandalism, graffiti, robbery, burglary, associating with undesirables, attempting to fight back when their friends are attacked by a heavily armed (or superpowered) self-appointed militia, exposing their head in public, looking suspicious or any other thing that offends you. Those places usually make the Rogue Isles look utopian by comparison if you're not among the elites, of course, but it's a great place if you think Western concepts of due process and trials are decadent ploys to interfere with dispensing divine justice. Which is just about all you could ever ask for once you realize you're infallible and inerrant.
My favorite superhero was always Frank Castle. He knew the right way how to deal with violent criminals...permanently. I never had any real respect for the idiotic catch-and-release superheroes who never seemed to notice that maybe they should try something else after the 100th time their mortal nemesis escaped from prison yet again...
in a game that I am arresting purse snatchers with radiation poisoning, excessive force doesnt seem to be a problem.
You never put a katana on your back it was worn on your left side (Katana is a right handed art) and your blade is facing up in the sheath (curve side is up) There is an entire art just on drawing the sword as a strike. You can actually do a partial draw and block the other guys sword draw; then finish the draw cutting him dead. I had a Katana/sr and sometimes I would laugh at my toons attack. Funny stuff for sure
in a game that I am arresting purse snatchers with radiation poisoning, excessive force doesnt seem to be a problem. having my demons restore the "peace" with hellfire is right there next to that.
We are talking about the practicality of things actually, like animations.
Some players prioritized certain things over other things, like the technique of martial arts kicks, and believed other things like the mechanics of warhulks or the physics of radiation blasts were things you were supposed to punt to the devs.
I think what always struck me about Martial Arts, especially before the release of alternative power animations, was that it was a sort of cousin of Irish dancing; all blows were delivered with the legs, with the arms as useless appendages.
(Someone's going to say, "Cobra Strike", but back in the day (as doubtless Arcana knows) Cobra Strike did piddly damage (less than Brawl) and, with Stamina and its prerequisites and a travel power and its prerequisites to fit into the early picks, it was pretty hard to fit it in. Amusingly, the last vestige of this is that Cobra Strike "deals high damage, but has a great chance of Disorienting your target."
Many MA took Cobra Strike because they thought it was a better power than it actually was (wishful thinking) and many because for a long time MA was so bad, Cobra Strike wasn't all that weird compared to the other options. MA was a beautiful looking set (at least to me) but it was originally a kind of awful that players who were not around at release cannot fathom.
I know radiation blast's damage wasn't very high, but I think its exaggerating a bit to claim that your blasts took several hours to bring down a minion. Ice melee sometimes brought down critters by ultimately giving them pneumonia, but that was before the buffs to Frozen Aura.
There's no such thing as the correct technique to wield a broadsword against a giant robot with a flame thrower and force fields.
you misunderstand what I was saying. I liked rad blast. I just thought giving someone radiation poisoning and leukemia(possibly) for purse snatching was a tad bit extreme. punching them , yes...burning their face off, not so much.
I think what always struck me about Martial Arts, especially before the release of alternative power animations, was that it was a sort of cousin of Irish dancing; all blows were delivered with the legs, with the arms as useless appendages.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I understand it's this.
1. CoX will be back online if the deal doesn't go south
2. The game is on a shackle from NCsoft
3. The game will never receive an update.
4. We have to shill out a load of money yet again to buy the stuff we paid for before, and have to wait for X months to get back our Loyalty rewards?
Is that correct?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I understand it's this.
1. CoX will be back online if the deal doesn't go south
2. The game is on a shackle from NCsoft
3. The game will never receive an update.
4. We have to shill out a load of money yet again to buy the stuff we paid for before, and have to wait for X months to get back our Loyalty rewards?
Is that correct?
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
What about unknown knowns? Things that we know but don't know that we know?
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Its also possible Paragon City was a Westworld amusement park for meta humans. It explains the fake currency, why we all thought we defeated the same Frostfire, and why the same woman has been getting her purse stolen on every block of the City for over ten years.Here was something I never understood. We as heroes should have been helping that woman. Like help her 10 times and get a boyscout badge or something. HA!
1. Yes, the game will be back unless something goes drastically wrong - doubtful since they are taking things very slowly and making NCSoft happy.
Some players prioritized certain things over other things, like the technique of martial arts kicks, and believed other things like the mechanics of warhulks or the physics of radiation blasts were things you were supposed to punt to the devs. But other players felt differently, and the devs squared that circle by not caring about any of it, to any serious degree except where designers voluntarily chose to selectively use it to guide style.
If we do get CoH back, and there ever is the chance to work on it more, then anyone in charge of animation would do well to look at Dark Souls and especially Dark Souls 2 when it comes to Titan Weapons done in a semi-realistic way without being too visually boring. While I dislike a lot of the changes to DS2, I can't fault them for making giant, eff-off swords and the like look visually powerful.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I understand it's this.1. true..
1. CoX will be back online if the deal doesn't go south
2. The game is on a shackle from NCsoft
3. The game will never receive an update.
4. We have to shill out a load of money yet again to buy the stuff we paid for before, and have to wait for X months to get back our Loyalty rewards?
Is that correct?
windows 9 compatability.., play till windows 9, stop
once Windows 9
and if people haven't found reasons to move to Revival at that point, I'd seriously need to step up my game! xDHave you considered holding a Kickstarter once we (hopefully) get the game back and you acquire an IP license? I threw $1,000 at City of Titans and I'd be happy to throw another $1,000 your way (in exchange for suitable in-game prezzies, naturally). :)
1. true..
2., 3. Am wondering about this..so we get the licensing to use the IP but without source code no updates really...and wondering about windows 9 compatability..so wondering what is the ultimate benefit of this effort then? Get it back, play till windows 9, stop... though I guess the other games (VO, CoT, H&V, AP Revival) can use some of the names, etc.. others please correct me if I'm wrong but is that it?
So my option is "Or Death"...?
1. true..
2., 3. Am wondering about this..so we get the licensing to use the IP but without source code no updates really...and wondering about windows 9 compatability..so wondering what is the ultimate benefit of this effort then? Get it back, play till windows 9, stop... though I guess the other games (VO, CoT, H&V, AP Revival) can use some of the names, etc.. others please correct me if I'm wrong but is that it?
Some have said that Win 9 won't kill every other game and program in the known world - on top of that a LOT of people still use Windows XP.
Look at this chart: http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-windows-xp-market-share-2014-2
As of Feb of this year more people were STILL on Windows XP than Windows 8 in 2014.
1. true..
2., 3. Am wondering about this..so we get the licensing to use the IP but without source code no updates really...and wondering about windows 9 compatability..so wondering what is the ultimate benefit of this effort then? Get it back, play till windows 9, stop... though I guess the other games (VO, CoT, H&V, AP Revival) can use some of the names, etc.. others please correct me if I'm wrong but is that it?
Personally I'm coazy with Windows 7 and I have no plans on moveingDamn straight, I've actively avoided moving anyone at our company to Win8 and certainly won't touch it at home. Win7 is a nice next step up from XP, while Win8 is really just a mess. Even Microsoft's own people call it "the new Vista" in-house. They're tripping over themselves trying to get Win9 out the door, while laying a bunch of people off. They really didn't get rid of Ballmer soon enough, though I'm not convinced the new guy is much better.
Some have said that Win 9 won't kill every other game and program in the known world - on top of that a LOT of people still use Windows XP.
Look at this chart: http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-windows-xp-market-share-2014-2
As of Feb of this year more people were STILL on Windows XP than Windows 8 in 2014.
you misunderstand what I was saying. I liked rad blast. I just thought giving someone radiation poisoning and leukemia(possibly) for purse snatching was a tad bit extreme. punching them , yes...burning their face off, not so much.
The unknown knowns are the the knowns which are known, but due to no hard information knowning the knowns we have to assume they are unknown.
I'm a newb on the block I admit to it, but I have a question - why didn't anyone ( because I checked for this regularly... not here tho >.>) just set up a privet server of the game and make it run like that? Before this possibility arose obviously, I'd much rather see a server that runs with NCsoft's blessing. ( even though I hate then with a venomous passion )Because we don't have the source code for the game.
http://www.returnofreckoning.com/index.php
Warhammer seams to have done just that and EA doesn't seam to care.
And before people say NCsoft is rigerouse about these things - no it isn't, in the times od darkness and youth.... aaaround 2007-8 or so, me and my friends played Lineage 2 on privet servers, and the amounts of those servers were UNCANNY, I had a metric shitton of servers to pick from, high rates, low rates, custom events, custom PVP it was a hassle just to pick one, and NCsoft was either wholly ignorant of these ( which I kinda doubt, there were thousands) or quite frankly didn't care.
Was this due to technical issues, or...?
I'm a newb on the block I admit to it, but I have a question - why didn't anyone ( because I checked for this regularly... not here tho >.>) just set up a privet server of the game and make it run like that? Before this possibility arose obviously, I'd much rather see a server that runs with NCsoft's blessing. ( even though I hate then with a venomous passion )
http://www.returnofreckoning.com/index.php
Warhammer seams to have done just that and EA doesn't seam to care.
And before people say NCsoft is rigerouse about these things - no it isn't, in the times od darkness and youth.... aaaround 2007-8 or so, me and my friends played Lineage 2 on privet servers, and the amounts of those servers were UNCANNY, I had a metric shitton of servers to pick from, high rates, low rates, custom events, custom PVP it was a hassle just to pick one, and NCsoft was either wholly ignorant of these ( which I kinda doubt, there were thousands) or quite frankly didn't care.
Was this due to technical issues, or...?
I'm a newb on the block I admit to it, but I have a question - why didn't anyone ( because I checked for this regularly... not here tho >.>) just set up a privet server of the game and make it run like that? Before this possibility arose obviously, I'd much rather see a server that runs with NCsoft's blessing. ( even though I hate then with a venomous passion )
Was this due to technical issues, or...?
It is legal to reverse engineeer - it is illegal to do anything with the product of that reverse engineering.
So you can look to see how something was done - but you can't then sell a product made the same way - except in some countries you can. In the USA nope.
I'm a newb on the block I admit to it, but I have a question - why didn't anyone ( because I checked for this regularly... not here tho >.>) just set up a privet server of the game and make it run like that? Before this possibility arose obviously, I'd much rather see a server that runs with NCsoft's blessing. ( even though I hate then with a venomous passion )
It is legal to reverse engineeer - it is illegal to do anything with the product of that reverse engineering.
So you can look to see how something was done - but you can't then sell a product made the same way - except in some countries you can. In the USA nope.
Say I reverse engineer CoH and then made it public and didn't take donations or payments? I would just pay for the servers out of my own pocket.
To my knowledge this is still something of a grey area in the USA atm.
Some have said that Win 9 won't kill every other game and program in the known world - on top of that a LOT of people still use Windows XP.
Look at this chart: http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-windows-xp-market-share-2014-2
As of Feb of this year more people were STILL on Windows XP than Windows 8 in 2014.
Windows 8 was an excellent case of why beta testing feedback is important. When putting out a new product, it has to be better and cheaper for people to move to it.They had plenty of beta feedback on Win8 - they just chose to ignore it because they know better than us about what we need to be doing.
Say I reverse engineer CoH and then made it public and didn't take donations or payments? I would just pay for the servers out of my own pocket.
To my knowledge this is still something of a grey area in the USA atm.
Also I know I am greatly GREATLY offtopic on this, but I've been desperately looking for this for years - even before CoX was scheduled to go down.
My question is - Where do I find the old CoV Character creation music? The one that basically sounded like a bombastic version of the Main CoV Login theme
Like I said archaist - both L2 and UO servers are alive and well, and they only take donations.
I'm a newb on the block I admit to it, but I have a question - why didn't anyone ( because I checked for this regularly... not here tho >.>) just set up a privet server of the game and make it run like that? Before this possibility arose obviously, I'd much rather see a server that runs with NCsoft's blessing. ( even though I hate then with a venomous passion )
http://www.returnofreckoning.com/index.php
Warhammer seams to have done just that and EA doesn't seam to care.
And before people say NCsoft is rigerouse about these things - no it isn't, in the times od darkness and youth.... aaaround 2007-8 or so, me and my friends played Lineage 2 on privet servers, and the amounts of those servers were UNCANNY, I had a metric shitton of servers to pick from, high rates, low rates, custom events, custom PVP it was a hassle just to pick one, and NCsoft was either wholly ignorant of these ( which I kinda doubt, there were thousands) or quite frankly didn't care.
Was this due to technical issues, or...?
I don't know enough about these games or private servers in general, but It's my understand that no legal action was taken by the companies against the private servers. It was their choice to let it slide. I don't think that there is currently any precedent in actual law where a company has filed against a private server that was open for free. Which is what I meant by grey area.
Please ignore Baja - there are not any super-secret CoH private servers in existence, ranting conspiracy theories to the contrary. If there were, there's no way it would have stayed a secret for 2 years and we'd be playing them.
Really? So if a group of twenty good friends you played coh with said "we have a private server you can play on, just don't tell anyone." You'd go around telling people most likely resulting in a shut down?If you're so sure that these super-secret private CoH servers "exist and are most likely in high numbers," then provide the slightest shred of actual proof.
If you're so sure that these super-secret private CoH servers "exist and are most likely in high numbers," then provide the slightest shred of actual proof.id also like too add to this by saying someone would have said something even if it was a secret. plus someone would have found a private server by now.
If there are that many of them of them out there, surely you can do that. Talk is cheap - and so are crazy, rambling conspiracy theories.
It's a common misconception that there's some sort of legal protection granted by violating copyright for non-commercial purposes; in actual fact, this is entirely untrue. The law offers no protection at all in this situation; fanfiction featuring copyrighted characters are illegal, freely distributing a pirated game is illegal (even if the game is out of print), and copying or publicly exhibiting a film without permission of the rights holder is illegal as well. This is because companies have a hard time making money selling a product if someone else is giving it away for free. IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: This is in no way, shape or form the same thing as immoral. Please don't take this as a moral judgment on your fanfiction, because I'm cool with it. :)
However, most companies don't send out cease and desist orders on non-commercial copyright infringement, for two reasons. First, there's no money changing hands. If there's no money changing hands, it's not worth paying a lawyer real money to stop. (Note that this can change in a heartbeat, though. As soon as Fox licensed official "Jayne hats", hobbyists everywhere who were giving away free patterns for making your own got hit with C&D orders. Now that there was a financial incentive to get people to buy the hat instead of making it, the IP became valuable and copyright infringement was no longer tolerated.) NCSoft clearly has a basis for assuming there's value to the IP, though, so there's no reason to think they would turn a blind eye to exploitation of their IP even if it was non-commercial.
The second reason is that there's a cost to filing lawsuits against your own fanbase above and beyond paying the lawyers. If you sue anyone who writes fanfic, you're going to wind up with a fanbase that bears you considerable ill-will. Since their money pays your bills, it's worth your while to pick your battles carefully and only go after the egregious violators. In this instance, making a private server would probably be considered egregious, unless you assume like Baja that there are people making Sooper Seekrit Servers for their Sooper Speshul High School Cliques and those aren't on NCSoft's radar.
In general, never assume that you're safe from someone's lawyers just because you aren't making money. All that means is that if they do decide to go after you, you won't be able to afford a lawyer. :)
You know, I have been wondering for a while now if Icon is legal or not, or if NCSoft knows about it or not (especially as rudimentary negotiations are underway to try and rez CoX).Last I checked, Codewalker (and others here) had already looked into this when Titan Icon was first released, and I'm pretty sure we're in the clear with it.
I suspect that's because when they were first designing the sets, Dark Melee became the all punch set so MA became the (mostly) all kick set.One of my first characters had and enjoyed the Chun Li version of Storm Kick. In my defense it was my first week playing, i had never played an MMO before despite having friends who were into Evercrack, and i didn't really start reading the forums for another week or so. Nifty looking power. A pity the animation was never reused for anything else AFAIK.
Cobra Strike was awful. It used to do Scale 0.25 damage (yep, that is in fact lower than Brawl: 0.36 scale) and 11.92 seconds of stun (at level 50: that scaled from 8 seconds at level 1), with recharge of 20 seconds and 1.67 seconds of cast time (it is literally burned into my memory). Many MA took Cobra Strike because they thought it was a better power than it actually was (wishful thinking) and many because for a long time MA was so bad, Cobra Strike wasn't all that weird compared to the other options.
MA was a beautiful looking set (at least to me) but it was originally a kind of awful that players who were not around at release cannot fathom.
id also like too add to this by saying someone would have said something even if it was a secret. plus someone would have found a private server by now.Quite. This crazy conspiracy theory suffers from the flaw they all have - that large groups of people can keep a secret - perfectly - for years on end without leaking even a hint of it. Does anyone here (aside from Baja), really think this community could keep that secret for even 5 whole minutes?
Quite. This crazy conspiracy theory suffers from the flaw they all have - that large groups of people can keep a secret - perfectly - for years on end without leaking even a hint of it. Does anyone here (aside from Baja), really think this community could keep that secret for even 5 whole minutes?Hellz no, I would be all "Look at what I just found!"
Quite. This crazy conspiracy theory suffers from the flaw they all have - that large groups of people can keep a secret - perfectly - for years on end without leaking even a hint of it. Does anyone here (aside from Baja), really think this community could keep that secret for even 5 whole minutes?
Quite. This crazy conspiracy theory suffers from the flaw they all have - that large groups of people can keep a secret - perfectly - for years on end without leaking even a hint of it. Does anyone here (aside from Baja), really think this community could keep that secret for even 5 whole minutes?
I see you didn't answer the question and instead became defensive to my -opinions-.Defensive? More like I'm laughing as the idea is so ludicrous. I just don't want any newbies here to get the wrong idea that these super-secret CoH private servers actually exist, as it's just mean to send people on a snipe hunt.
I'm pretty sure if the Manhattan project existed, it's more than possible for a small group of people to keep a secret... Just sayin'As an example of keeping secrets, you picked...the U.S. Government? They leak like a sieve.
I'm pretty sure if the Manhattan project existed, it's more than possible for a small group of people to keep a secret... Just sayin'that is public knowledge whereas someone going around saying there is a small group playing. This is flawed because all of the old devs and most players know that the fans of this game wants to play. As for your last sentence this is flawed read the pervious sentence for the answer.
I see you didn't answer the question and instead became defensive to my -opinions-.
The high numbers things is very much a guess, considering many of the players were very talented with computer science among other things required to reverse engineer or even steal the source. Fact remains though several devs became personal friends with a group of players. If you followed the forums around shut down it became pretty well known the source was left untouched in Europe for several months after shut down, which gave ample time to distribute this to the right people.
But hey once again just my opinion, your disagreement is more than welcome.
I'm pretty sure if the Manhattan project existed, it's more than possible for a small group of people to keep a secret... Just sayin'Manhattan Project was a top secret military project in wartime that employed a small number of people who actually knew what was being done with thousands of people actively working to screen it. Not nearly the same thing as your hypothesized high number of private servers for a game, servers that could be easily released and copied en masse if a single person of that high number uploaded it to a torrent. Within hours there would be hundreds of copies scattered across dozens of torrent networks.
Private servers only work if someone had access to the original source code and gave it to someone outside the company, which appears not to be the case. Not that there haven't been attempts at creating private servers...
I see you didn't answer the question and instead became defensive to my -opinions-.
The high numbers things is very much a guess, considering many of the players were very talented with computer science among other things required to reverse engineer or even steal the source. Fact remains though several devs became personal friends with a group of players. If you followed the forums around shut down it became pretty well known the source was left untouched in Europe for several months after shut down, which gave ample time to distribute this to the right people.
But hey once again just my opinion, your disagreement is more than welcome.
Damn straight, I've actively avoided moving anyone at our company to Win8 and certainly won't touch it at home. Win7 is a nice next step up from XP, while Win8 is really just a mess. Even Microsoft's own people call it "the new Vista" in-house. They're tripping over themselves trying to get Win9 out the door, while laying a bunch of people off. They really didn't get rid of Ballmer soon enough, though I'm not convinced the new guy is much better.
That's existed forever, it's called "paying attention to your kids" although this ancient technique has been long ignored, some practioners of this ancient art still exist today.
Seriously though blaming companies for what your kid has seen on a video game, movie, etc is just laziness. Maybe if people tried to take interest in what their kids were into, or even just taught their children to be open and honest, we as adult consumers wouldn't have to miss out on things like this.
There may or may not have been an ongoing effort to do exactly that, which may or may not be continuing. :) Basically, everything server-side needs to be reverse-engineered from the client in order to make a playable game on a private server (because as Arcana mentioned, it was not leaked to the plaers like some other MMO source code), and this is not something that can be done easily or quickly by hobbyists. In addition, since there may be potential legal hassles invovled (it's probably legal to undertake such an activity, but nobody wants to be in the position to have to hire a lawyer to prove that) any efforts along those lines are proceeding so far under the radar that some people believe they don't exist. Either that, or they don't exist. I'm not sure. :)
So short answer: Yes, technical issues. But not necessarily insurmountable ones, in the event that the deal falls through.
Really? So if a group of twenty good friends you played coh with said "we have a private server you can play on, just don't tell anyone." You'd go around telling people most likely resulting in a shut down?
Quite. This crazy conspiracy theory suffers from the flaw they all have - that large groups of people can keep a secret - perfectly - for years on end without leaking even a hint of it. Does anyone here (aside from Baja), really think this community could keep that secret for even 5 whole minutes?
Defensive? More like I'm laughing as the idea is so ludicrous. I just don't want any newbies here to get the wrong idea that these super-secret CoH private servers actually exist, as it's just mean to send people on a snipe hunt.
But to answer your question - yes, I'd be telling everyone! If I had a copy of the CoH source code I wouldn't waste 2 seconds in uploading it to every file-sharing network on the planet and would be handing out free copies to every single person who wanted one. And I would have that source code, in very short order, if it were any of my friends that were inviting me to some super-secret private server.
I think you're being a bit jerky to Baja, myself. He's just saying what he THINKS is the case, just as you are. You have zero proof that there AREN'T private servers somewhere, and he has zero proof that there are.
Why on earth would you do ANY of that? Why wouldn't you just play on the private server with your friends...privately...forever?Um...because that would be horribly selfish of me? If I could return the game to the community...where it belongs...I would do so in a heartbeat. And if there were a million copies of it floating around the net, it could never be censored.
But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If I said that I THINK Robert Downey Junior keeps a pet leprechaun in his basement, my belief is not equivalent to your belief that he doesn't just because neither one of us can prove what we think. :)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=imagizer.imageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg7%2F4703%2Fmodhat2.jpg)I do wonder how they are going, but I do understand the quietness of it :)
So how 'bout them negotiations.
(That's mod-speak for "leave it alone, guys".)
See, this is funny to me. I'm running Windows 8 as we speak, and since day 1 I've found it to be superior in EVERY way. There is, literally, NOTHING I can't do in Windows 8 that I could in 7, and do it faster. The instant on thing is amazing. It boots almost instantly. Once you learn the shortcuts it becomes even BETTER, and since the 8.1 update, now you can avoid the tiled home screen altogether and boot right to the desktop, and they even returned the windows button functionality.
My Patrol XP must be HUGE. That means that Blaster in permanent lvl 47 limbo is ready to DING 50?! Sweet.
I do wonder how they are going, but I do understand the quietness of it :)
How quickly they forget... There was a cap on Patrol XP. :P
Yes, I can do anything on my wife's Windows 8 laptop that I can do on my Windows 7 laptop (physical hardware differences aside), after I spend at least five minutes figuring out where the hell Redmond moved it in the interface. My grandfather is the only one in the family I hadn't gotten migrated from Windows XP, and I'm just leaving him at XP, with an active Kaspersky sub, until he runs into a reason to do otherwise.
Does 2 years count as "Quickly"?From some perspectives yes.
Does 2 years count as "Quickly"?
Defeating Caleb...
If someone like Arcana can hack the test server (or live I can't remember the story) chances are she also had the source.
See, this is funny to me. I'm running Windows 8 as we speak, and since day 1 I've found it to be superior in EVERY way. There is, literally, NOTHING I can't do in Windows 8 that I could in 7, and do it faster.
I'm sure this is true for lots of people, but for the specific case of someone that is running Windows on a non-touch device that multitasks, Windows 8 is only faster for people who somehow work slower when in the presence of odd numbers.
Also, anyone who loads more than a few programs quickly finds themselves in chicklet-hell.
Objectively, and I'm not the only person who has performed this analysis, Windows 7's interface is far more transparent. From a human interface design perspective, Windows 8 forces users to figure out and learn a lot more than Windows 7 does. Sure, you can argue that "once you learn" all its nuances it might be as fast or faster, but that's not the correct way to judge the useability of a UI. The way to judge a UI is to see how difficult it is for someone to figure out how to make it work, and on that score I've seen and taught people both interfaces: Windows 8 loses and loses big.
Even Microsoft is figuring this out: the success of Windows 9 hinges explicitly on the degree to which it fixes the mistakes Windows 8 makes, not the degree to which it improves on the new features of Windows 8 that didn't exist prior.
Under the hood, in the kernel and core operating system, yes Windows 8 does have many enhancements. I find the friction associated with using Windows 8 to make me not really care. Windows 8 doesn't solve a problem. Windows 7 solved the problem of making Vista's security enhancements significantly less rage-inducing and providing a 64-bit platform that wasn't a complete joke (XP-64). The only problem Windows 8 solved was saving people money by not having to upgrade to it.
Even the best defense of Metro I've ever read starts by admitting that for power users Metro is complete crap (http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+8+Designer+Metro+is+the+Antithesis+of+a+Power+User/article34354.htm). I'm not sure I buy all of that writer's assertions, but when you start your defense of Windows 8 with "its interface does suck (for power users) but..." that suggests even within Microsoft people know they did not deal themselves a strong hand with Win8.
In any event, while there are those that say Windows 8 lets them do what they did in Windows 7 better, for me the problem is that what I currently do in Windows 7 I cannot do at all, in any way, in Windows 8. That makes it non-functional for me, because I don't change the way I work to fit my OS, I run the OS that does what I need it to do. What I do is multitask, and Win8's interface - and even Win8.1's interface to an extent - just plain sucks at it.
It is "gods damnit, I hate calling Korea" central. Man my phone bill is going to suck.
*ahem*
This is not idle speculation about code leaks central.
It is "gods damnit, I hate calling Korea" central. Man my phone bill is going to suck.
Half the playerbase thinks I'm a wizard, and the other half think I'm a complete faker. There's nothing I can say to change those odds either way.
Man this has been a long stretch of zero updates
*ahem*
This is not idle speculation about code leaks central.
It is "gods damnit, I hate calling Korea" central. Man my phone bill is going to suck.
To be serious - I would happily pitch in on a kickstarter to pay that phonebill or even set up a quick paypal when you get it.
I know you would raise the funds in one day. You can set a cap at paypal for a limit that stops once you get it - I believe. You aren't asking for money I know but seriously, I know a lot of us appreciate what you are doing and a being able to even chip in $5 gives people a sense of helping. I was once told a good piece of advise by a friend - allow others to help you - it benefits their souls and lets them feel good about themselves.
A little under .23% thinks that you're a mouse who is a wizard's apprentice. ;)
*ahem*
This is not idle speculation about code leaks central.
It is "gods damnit, I hate calling Korea" central. Man my phone bill is going to suck.
Purpling out my Warshade...
The fact you are calling Korea is awesome. Yeah like others have said let bus help ya with that Nate.
Oh, so that's a good question---what kinda toon are you all gonna make first (or second if its a VEAT or HEAT) when/if the game comes back online?
Gonna have to think on it for a mo' but I think it will be a scrapper or stalker for sure.
There was a thread on that under the City of Heroes header. I actually wrote down a list of the characters I would like to make, but I don't know which ones would be first. Several, I suspect, before any hit 50. I would make a few the first day to reserve names of characters I want to remake, even if I don't end up playing them right away. A few of my "mains" I know I would remake--fire/kin 'troller, plant/rad 'troller, kat/wp scrapper, and WS--and I definitely want to make a demon/dark mm, especially as I have the beginnings of a backstory for that character that I'm fond of.That's a good idea. Part of the fun was making good character names. We had a guy who had the best names, constantly got genericized though when he got caught...Hugh Janus was one of my favs!
Oh, so that's a good question---what kinda toon are you all gonna make first (or second if its a VEAT or HEAT) when/if the game comes back online?
Gonna have to think on it for a mo' but I think it will be a scrapper or stalker for sure.
You get us our home back (ASAP preferably ;D), and we'll quite happily pay that phone bill for you. 8)Tell me about it - pull that off and you can send us the bill! :)
I suspect at least part of the problem comes from having to animate each "move" (power) independently so that they could return to a default status, allowing attacks to be chained together in any order. It's hard when you have to go back to an identical stance after every move to make it look flowing or smooth, unfortunately.
under-abundance of literacy
I liked rad blast. I just thought giving someone radiation poisoning and leukemia(possibly) for purse snatching was a tad bit extreme. punching them , yes...burning their face off, not so much.
You just made my brain twitch o.O
My question is - Where do I find the old CoV Character creation music? The one that basically sounded like a bombastic version of the Main CoV Login theme
http://www.drawastickman.com/episode1?o=66-69-32-67-82-69-65-84-73-86-69s66-89-58-32-84-72-69-32-66-65-78-68-69-69
As an example of keeping secrets, you picked...the U.S. Government? They leak like a sieve.
On the subject of which characters to make, thought I'd add one: A sonic/mental/elec blaster. I never got a blaster to 50 (37 was the highest) and always regretted that a little. This build has access to enough cone attacks to put a pretty ridiculous cone chain together (howl, shockwave, sirens song, psychic scream and static discharge), using the sleep and knockback for control as needed. Plus, the option to sleep a group before moving in to drain psyche sounds delicious.Pretty. Yeah, IF I even make a blaster again, It would probably have to have Mental as the secondary as its the only one (IIRC) that has the plus regen/plus recov move in it.
Is there any way to modify the animations so that they do "flow"? Somehow taking the next cued attack, and ending the current animation so that it flows in to the next one?
The Manhattan Project was indeed kept super secret.
Or...However else you want to say it. But we are distracting ourselves quite well here, and Team Hail Mary is left to work in peace. And I think that is the best thing that could happen at this point.
Pretty. Yeah, IF I even make a blaster again, It would probably have to have Mental as the secondary as its the only one (IIRC) that has the plus regen/plus recov move in it.
And sonics (while their sound is annoying) are great for debuffin the resist of baddies, AND there are a LOT of control moves in both Sonic/Mental which should have a nice semi-troller feel to it. But if you don't mind my asking, why ELEC as the ancillary? Not complaining, just curious what you plan to do with it. I would (almost always) go for Mace just to get the Scorp shield which is HUGE defenses.
Oh, so that's a good question---what kinda toon are you all gonna make first (or second if its a VEAT or HEAT) when/if the game comes back online?How cool would it be if, someone got to 50 and they were able to choose their own H/Veat from all of the enemy groups such as if I wanted a Knives Heat I would need a level 50 plus all the badges under this enemy group :)
Gonna have to think on it for a mo' but I think it will be a scrapper or stalker for sure.
Oh, so that's a good question---what kinda toon are you all gonna make first (or second if its a VEAT or HEAT) when/if the game comes back online?
Gonna have to think on it for a mo' but I think it will be a scrapper or stalker for sure.
I have a feeling that if NCSoft had any smidgen of idea that they had the code...they wouldn't have the code.
If they did have the code... Then the best thing they could do is to disseminate it as wide and far as possible.
There are lots of ways... and I doubt NCSoft is going to have more luck killing it once it's going than the FBI/RIAA/MPAA/ETC. have had in the last 15 years.
I'd probably bring back my Invul/Ice Tanker just for giggles - this costume made a lot of Americans upset for some reason.
I'd probably bring back my Invul/Ice Tanker just for giggles - this costume made a lot of Americans upset for some reason.
(https://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx2/supajasiu/Moroz.png)
Maybe its because a lot of Americans have repressed memories of bad childhood experiences with mall Santas.HA! I was thinkin it was Ruskie Santa. I wouldn't worry about it, it looked dam cool to me man.
I'd probably bring back my Invul/Ice Tanker just for giggles - this costume made a lot of Americans upset for some reason.
(https://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx2/supajasiu/Moroz.png)
I'm not sure how they would deal with vet rewards.
I was under the impression that 'start over' would be implemented.
It would be the most elegant, simple way given what we know of the plans to date.
Just guessing.
OK....so, how about those Vet Rewards? I can certainly live without them, but wow, I'm gonna miss the "skip Hover" reward.
Wouldn't it be easier just to give all the vet awards straight away as a good will gesture of sorts?
I believe it would be easiest not to give vet rewards at all.
I had just about as many of the rewards as you could acquire, so I'd be in favor of getting them back.
But I wouldn't hold my breath. ;)
I just want the game back... :(
-places Statesman in a huge, sparkly tutu (complete with flashing LEDs)- Distracting enough?
No?
HAMIDON IN A TUTU!
(Cue thunder and evil laughter)
I'd probably bring back my Invul/Ice Tanker just for giggles - this costume made a lot of Americans upset for some reason.
(https://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx2/supajasiu/Moroz.png)
I dunno as much as I would love to get ALL THESE THINGS. I just found getting the rewards well... rewarding - you couldnt buy them or drop them or grind your way to them, haveing them was kind of a quiet nod of approval of your loyalty.
I liked that feeling.
Except, vet rewards were no longer vet rewards as of when the game closed. They were Paragon Rewards, and tied to the store token system, so you could buy your way to them.Which is precisely what I did, as fast as I could. I waited for years, wanting that Assemble the Team power (and others, like Reveal), and finally I could just bribe my way to the top. I was thrilled.
I had an old duo partner who rolled a Russian style character.Red Heat is the movie, if you're talking about the one with Jim Belushi and Arnie
We RPG'd the 'frosty' American/Russian cold war relationship thing.
Heh. He was highly annoying with it too... :P
I always imagined a voice similar to Arnie's when he played a Russian Soldier in that movie...was it 'Red Star?' That made his character even more annoying... :P
Azrael.
I'm sure this is true for lots of people, but for the specific case of someone that is running Windows on a non-touch device that multitasks, Windows 8 is only faster for people who somehow work slower when in the presence of odd numbers.
Also, anyone who loads more than a few programs quickly finds themselves in chicklet-hell.
Objectively, and I'm not the only person who has performed this analysis, Windows 7's interface is far more transparent. From a human interface design perspective, Windows 8 forces users to figure out and learn a lot more than Windows 7 does. Sure, you can argue that "once you learn" all its nuances it might be as fast or faster, but that's not the correct way to judge the useability of a UI. The way to judge a UI is to see how difficult it is for someone to figure out how to make it work, and on that score I've seen and taught people both interfaces: Windows 8 loses and loses big.
Which is precisely what I did, as fast as I could. I waited for years, wanting that Assemble the Team power (and others, like Reveal), and finally I could just bribe my way to the top. I was thrilled.
Some have said that Win 9 won't kill every other game and program in the known world - on top of that a LOT of people still use Windows XP.I just reformatted my HD and re-installed...Win XP. :)
Look at this chart: http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-windows-xp-market-share-2014-2
As of Feb of this year more people were STILL on Windows XP than Windows 8 in 2014.
From reading this thread, Win 7 will be where I end up next.Wise choice. The learning curve from XP isn't that hard. Going to Win8 from XP is like stepping sideways into some weird parallel dimension.
*ahem*All I saw was, "they are still talking". That's good news.
This is not idle speculation about code leaks central.
It is "gods damnit, I hate calling Korea" central. Man my phone bill is going to suck.
I was once told a good piece of advise by a friend - allow others to help you - it benefits their souls and lets them feel good about themselves.That's good. I'm really bad at accepting help...I need to remember that.
Except, vet rewards were no longer vet rewards as of when the game closed. They were Paragon Rewards, and tied to the store token system, so you could buy your way to them.I didn't even know that.
The Manhattan Project was indeed kept super secret.
That simply can't be true if we all know that name. . . ;D
At any given time on my PC I'm running Windows Media Center (yes, it's my main DVR hooked up with an HD Homerun) and running multiple browsers, each with multiple tabs (I use a seperate browser each for work and personal browsing) and can be running any portion of Adobe Creative suite or running PC games including graphics intensive MMOs, as well as my music player. I never have any problem finding what I want. Alt tab to the window of the app/program I want, and it pops up, just like I do in Windows 7. Want to find an app I don't have open? Just swipe my mouse down from the top right corner and the search bar pops up for me just as fast if not faster than having to click the start tab in Windows 7. By the way, this is on a far from high end machine. I'm running and i5 processor with 8 gigs of ram and and GTX 550 video processor. Not low end, but definitely not high end.
Arcana, what shortcuts or pathways are you using in windows 7 that have been taken away in Windows 8? Honestly, at home I use Windows 8, at work I use Windows 7, and I really don't see ANY functional difference once I got the 8.1 update and had the ability for it to boot right to the desktop, avoiding the metro interface altogether.
I'm wondering, are you relying mostly on the built in "apps" via the metro interface, or using the actual stand alone programs like you would in Windows 7? Maybe that's the issue. I don't use -any- of the built in apps via the app store or metro interface because they are, by design, bulky and take over the full screen, like you'd see on a tablet, etc. But those are easily avoided if you're using Windows 8 on a PC. As a matter of fact, I NEVER even see the metro interface on my home PC. I boot to the desktop by default and every program I use is one I've installed myself, the same way I would on any other PC. I don't even know what the market interface looks like on Windows 8 PCs, honestly.
Could that be the cause of your frustration?
The cause of my frustration with Windows 8.x is that at best, I can maybe get back something close to my Windows 7 experience if I punch it in the face enough times, and absolutely none of the UI changes improves things.
...
The question should really be: on a non-touch computer, what can Windows 8.x do that you can't do in Win7 that anyone actually wants to do? I
They should have made Windows 8's metro menu be the option you enable, instead of the other way around.
The cause of my frustration with Windows 8.x is that at best, I can maybe get back something close to my Windows 7 experience if I punch it in the face enough times, and absolutely none of the UI changes improves things.
I have an immense amount of respect for you and your technical expertise, so I'll leave this is my last post on this topic so I don't seem like I'm badgering you.
First, don't you think you're overstating the effort needed to make Windows 8.1 boot directly to the desktop? It, LITERALLY, involves three steps: right click on the task bar, click the navigation tab, then check a box to show the desktop on start or when all apps are closed. Done. From there on out you never have to see tiles or the metro screen again, unless you want to.
The second part of your question, for me at least, includes instant start up and shutdown, improved speed all around, incredibly fast search and integration of my windows ID with my Xbox Live ID, hotmail (I know, I know), etc. The ease of upgrading, with the ability to upgrade from the Previous OS (windows 7) to the new one without having to reinstall all of my programs or lose any of my data was also a nice bonus. They also added back an (in my opinion) improved version of the start button, where right clicking gives you MUCH faster access to most of the common things you had to dig to get to before, like Device manager, disk manager, power management, etc.
I will say that since I switched to a Nokia Lumia, I'm seeing why, if I had a Windows tablet as well, I'd REALLY like Microsoft's decision to try and get some uniformity in their OS systems across platforms. That was their long term strategy: to try and make a single Windows system that really feels like it transcends the PC to unify all types of devices.
Sorry you don't like it, and really, it doesn't matter what OS someone chooses to use. I just think Windows 8 gets a bad wrap. It didn't work with the general public, but I think that was as much the public just not seeing the need yet as it was the actual attempt being an inferior one. They should have made Windows 8's metro menu be the option you enable, instead of the other way around. That alone might have saved it from initial culture shock. Who knows?
3 words. Classic Start Menu.
It took me less than 30 seconds to download and install that to Windows 8, and restore my desktop to the Windows 7 feel. I never see Metro, everything rocks. :)
Also, boot time from cold to desktop? 5-6 seconds. :D
It really is a shame that, once again, the media have gotten away with ruining the rep of what really is a good OS, with just a few minor issues that were mostly fixed in the first update; just like Vista.
Is it worth it to put out that the Boeing Co. is very firmly using Windows 7 (we actually got rid of our last XP machines this spring).
You're not the only one who beta tested Vista, or Windows 7, or 8, or going back a ways, Longhorn, XP and Millennium as well as the various server versions. Microsoft have their reasons for making their decisions, and sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong.
With Windows 8, they made an error of judgement with the regards making Metro the primary UI on the desktop, but for the mobile space, it really is a great UI (I know, I have 2 Windows 8 tablets). It's an understandable choice though, as they'd gotten caught wrong footed with the sudden surge in mobile OS's and they needed to get in on the action. A lot of those issues were fixed with 8.1, and the rest will be resolved in 9.
None of that, however, alters one bit the sheer damage done to their rep by the media. The Vista issues were ridiculously overblown by the media, causing damage so bad that MS were forced to dump it and launch Windows 7, even though there is very little actual difference between it and Vista SP1. What we have in 7 would have been another Vista service pack if the name itself hadn't been irreparably damaged.
Essentially the same is happening to Windows 8, too. It has a few problems sure, but those are once again being ridiculously overblown by the media, forcing MS to abandon it and move to 9, even though once again the differences are minimal. So much so that the rumours are 9 will be either a free or very low cost upgrade to 8.
I have no problem with people who prefer 7 over 8, personal preference has always been a major factor in OS choice, but what really annoys me is the way that the media have once again managed to take a massive dump on MS in a completely disproportionate way, yet let them get away completely with what they did to Windows Phone 7 device owners (which really -was- unforgivable).
If people are going to vilify Microsoft for something, do it for the bad things they've deliberately done, rather than the mistakes they've made.
Corporations are -always- very slow to upgrade to a new OS. That's the way it's always been and the way it will always be. The OS itself is never the issue, it's a purely financial thing. Upgrading isn't a cheap thing, especially for large corps.
Yep.
They also can't get any good ROI and other numbers on it because it's effectively maintenance for the company. It's a huge problem for any IT department.
Our own IT department are currently rolling out Windows 8 across the network. Almost -EVERYONE- is complaining about it, but at least they have a very very good reason. We do a lot of client side support for our customers that requires that we connect to their systems, so we use VM's for that so that the VPN's they make us use don't disconnect us from -our- network. Windows 8's Hyper-V has a huge bug in that it only supports 4:3 resolution screens, which is BLOODY ANNOYING when we all have dual 24" widescreen monitors, and they won't let us install any 3rd party VM solutions!
Why oh why they're not going straight to 8.1, where that problem is fixed, is beyond everyone's comprehension, and IT ain't sayin'... :/
None of that, however, alters one bit the sheer damage done to their rep by the media. The Vista issues were ridiculously overblown by the media, causing damage so bad that MS were forced to dump it and launch Windows 7, even though there is very little actual difference between it and Vista SP1. What we have in 7 would have been another Vista service pack if the name itself hadn't been irreparably damaged.
Essentially the same is happening to Windows 8, too. It has a few problems sure, but those are once again being ridiculously overblown by the media, forcing MS to abandon it and move to 9, even though once again the differences are minimal. So much so that the rumours are 9 will be either a free or very low cost upgrade to 8.
If people are going to vilify Microsoft for something, do it for the bad things they've deliberately done, rather than the mistakes they've made.
Our own IT department are currently rolling out Windows 8 across the network. Almost -EVERYONE- is complaining about it, but at least they have a very very good reason. We do a lot of client side support for our customers that requires that we connect to their systems, so we use VM's for that so that the VPN's they make us use don't disconnect us from -our- network. Windows 8's Hyper-V has a huge bug in that it only supports 4:3 resolution screens, which is BLOODY ANNOYING when we all have dual 24" widescreen monitors, and they won't let us install any 3rd party VM solutions!
Why oh why they're not going straight to 8.1, where that problem is fixed, is beyond everyone's comprehension, and IT ain't sayin'... :/
(https://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx2/supajasiu/Moroz.png)
Wise choice. The learning curve from XP isn't that hard. Going to Win8 from XP is like stepping sideways into some weird parallel dimension.
Media support for Windows 8 ran 10:1 in favor of it at launch, and that shifted over time to the point of overwhelmingly acknowledging the problems with it only when the number of people voicing those concerns only increased over time.
Its a crazy solution, but I ran into a similar issue once and the way I resolved it was to run the VM minimized, and then RDP into the VM and let the remote desktop client resize a terminal services screen rather than the hardware VM screen. I don't know if that will work in this case, but its worth trying.
Particularly, I used to configure XP to look generally like the old familiar ugly '95 interface rather than the new unfamiliar ugly XP interface. I was pleased to find Win 7 can be configured quite readily to the still-familiar ugly '95 interface rather than the old unfamiliar ugly XP interface or the new unfamiliar ugly Win 7 interface.
I'm still happier on a real computer with an actual choice of window managers, but what can one do for videogames, eh?
Long time defender of Russia, General Winter, I presume?I would've said Cold War personally. Or maybe Nuclear Winter...
Is it possible to create a panda hero in Icon? I know it's in bad taste...but...if WoW can do it...(https://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv34/clave-dark/PrincessYinyin_zpscbb4c45e.jpg)
Did you make Win 95 look like Win 3.1, too? :p
Particularly, I used to configure XP to look generally like the old familiar ugly '95 interface rather than the new unfamiliar ugly XP interface. I was pleased to find Win 7 can be configured quite readily to the still-familiar ugly '95 interface rather than the old unfamiliar ugly XP interface or the new unfamiliar ugly Win 7 interface.
I'm still happier on a real computer with an actual choice of window managers, but what can one do for videogames, eh?
None of that, however, alters one bit the sheer damage done to their rep by the media. The Vista issues were ridiculously overblown by the media, causing damage so bad that MS were forced to dump it and launch Windows 7, even though there is very little actual difference between it and Vista SP1. What we have in 7 would have been another Vista service pack if the name itself hadn't been irreparably damaged.
RDP works fine, but it really kills performance, and when you're having to connect to slow client VPN's, having a sluggish VM on top of that isn't what you really want.
None of that, however, alters one bit the sheer damage done to their rep by the media. The Vista issues were ridiculously overblown by the media, causing damage so bad that MS were forced to dump it and launch Windows 7, even though there is very little actual difference between it and Vista SP1.
Also, bringing up a full-screen UI to launch a program (even in 8.1!) and hidden corner/side hot spots to access important things are both terrible paradigms to use through a windowed remote desktop session. It's probably the sole reason we're sticking with Server 2008R2 at work -- it's that bad to try to admin a 2012 server across a slow link.
I don't plan on vilifying anyone, I just go by the rule of thumb of "everything is pancake until proven otherwise" Windows 7 proved to not be pancake, Windows 8 failed to do so - if Windows 9 dose as 7 or 8, my decision will be based on that.
When did pancakes become a bad thing? I love pancakes. Especially blueberry ones.
I would've said Cold War personally. Or maybe Nuclear Winter...
Bad!?!? You eat that horrific mess, you'll be DEAD! :O
Bad!?!? You eat that horrific mess, you'll be DEAD! :O
Bad!?!? You eat that horrific mess, you'll be DEAD! :O
...the numerous incompatibility problems...
That was my personal experience with Vista. I had so many hardware and software incompatability/freezing issues with Vista, it was a wonder I didn't rip all my hair out at the time.
I wound up going back to XP, and then eventually switching to Windows 7. No problems with either of those two operating systems...
C'mon now, who in their right mind would think this is bad :P
Bad!?!? You eat that horrific mess, you'll be DEAD! :O
Who, after eating that, would be capable of thinking?
Is it possible to create a panda hero in Icon? I know it's in bad taste...but...if WoW can do it...Someone on Liberty played a number of characters all named "panda (insert variant name here) " and they looked pretty close if I recall.
When did pancakes become a bad thing? I love pancakes. Especially blueberry ones.
Don't think he's saying pancakes are bad. Actually from "everything is pancake until proven otherwise" he is using pancake is a point marker on how good the situation is until proven otherwise. C'mon now, who in their right mind would think this is bad :P
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.neighborfoodblog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2Fapple-pancakes-2-731x1024.jpg)
I had a friend Niko that made his toon look like a giant rooster man. Was weird how he could spend hours on the character builder screen just getting the look of his toon right.
Virtue had its share of pandas. ;)
Virtue had its share of pandas. ;)I always thought Virtue was the home of the catgirls :D
I always thought Virtue was the home of the catgirls :D
I had a blaster named Nuclear winter (rad/ice). His origin was that he was a reactor tech that just happened to be working when the Rikti were going after the reactor core and the heroes were hitting it with coolant.... He managed to stumble right between core and coolant...
I had a friend Niko that made his toon look like a giant rooster man. Was weird how he could spend hours on the character builder screen just getting the look of his toon right.
For those of you who are (relatively, i.e: since the beginning of the "new efforts") new, there was a lot of, shall we say, lack of self-censorship (swearing) that irritated TPTB slightly, so a script was written to change instances of "sailor-talk" to the word "pancake." Some of us just find it fun to still use the word in place of whatever swear word we really meant. We're kinda Smurfy with the marklars like that. :D
See this Admin thread for more info, if you like: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,7215.0.html
I would've said Cold War personally. Or maybe Nuclear Winter...
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=img4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20090906032000%2Ffreedomforce%2Fimages%2F2%2F2e%2FNuclearwinter.png)
http://freedomforce.wikia.com/wiki/Nuclear_Winter
I loved Freedom Force and the alternative power sets that fans made. They nailed captain america
Ah, I remember the troll->unicorn script, but I never noticed the pancake one until this thread. I haven't been around much since the TPP boards got their own sites.
The pancake one is actually a carryover from the official COH boards. One of the community reps (I think it was in Zwillinger's reign IIRC) changed the profanity filter to the word pancake. Which was especially amusing because it was a per-character filter (as in replacing letters with *s), so for a while when people swore it would say pancakepancakepancakepancakepancakepancake
I always really liked Zwill's modding. I just thought he was awesome.
Zwill was awesome, I remember the day I was just logging on for the first time having parked my Main in Dark Astoria for the day job credit and by the area incarnate raids formed in and Zwill was there...and the first thing I see in Local chat is "RYU FORM UP AN INCARNATE RAID!"
If I remember right he got DCed the moment we logged into the Raid too.
Yes I admit, I had a cat toon on Virtue.
Zwill was a blast, also yes he did get DCed in that raid :(
Also on an ironic note, your mention of the day jobs makes me chuckle about the article where Matt Miller implied he was against alts. The Day Jobs pretty much promoted alt-itis.
Champions or CoH secrets? Not that Champions had many secrets other than maybe the hodge-podge of lore that was constantly being revised anyway. The rest of the system was pretty clear, so i'm guessing CoH secrets.
Still, it's pretty cool that he was involved with CoH. Did he have any involvement with CO?
Because if you watch videos of staff-based martial arts there are actual moves very much like that. As a martial art staff fighting tends to be rather acrobatic and dance-like, much like capeoira.
Alts were good for business, dunno why Positron would have hated them.....i mean it kept people playing for freaking ever like me.
I'm sorry EXACTLY where does Positron/Matt Miller say... he HATES alts? I keep seeing this on the forums...and I don't remember him ever saying he hates alts....
I'm sorry EXACTLY where does Positron/Matt Miller say... he HATES alts? I keep seeing this on the forums...and I don't remember him ever saying he hates alts....
I have been wondering this my self. Did he actually say he hated alts, or that he wanted to give players more of a reason to play their main. Because I remember devs talking about that.
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7676/Altism.html
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.troll.me%2Fimages%2Fancient-aliens-guy%2Fmy-theory-aliens.jpg)
I'll never forget the guy who played a character called "Killer Whale", it was a invul/ss tank and he rp'd it perfectly. I only remember seeing him for the first six months or so of coh, I remember there were lots of rumours of him being banned for erp or something along those lines. I also hazily remember something being said of him confronting the devs on the forum about a major issue with the game that also may have lead to his banning. If anyone remembers or knows what actually happened PLEASE let me know, I'd love to hear about that just to put my misinformed nostalgia at ease.
Also yes Panda people existed, although the cat people definitely won the numbers game. Holy yiff balls were there always a lot of car rp'rs...
how does one RP a whale?
I wonder how many cat girls mistakenly took the whale for a fish, and tried to eat him...
You know what? I DON'T want to know.
VERY Carefully
how does one RP a whale?
how does one RP a whale?
Never had a single problem with Vista. Ran just fine on my ancient Pentium3 (Northwood) 3ghz CPU with 4 gig ram and an old Radeon 8500. To steal from Apple (who know all about doing that), everything -just worked- :p
Did you buy a "pre-made" system? Just wondering, because I built all my desktop systems for about 10 years (and had to hope that the latest version of Windows allowed for all of those components) up to about 4 years ago when I ultimately decided to use Laptops from then on.
Well, judging by the psychic whale incident shortly after the EU/US communities merged, you RP it as far away as possible from certain players! (Unless you want a sword through the head...)
I don't know, but I did spend a lot of mental time trying to figure out what kinds of superpowers a half-man, half-seacow would have, so I could make the story of Subject O, an experiment in creating animal/human hybrids. He was going to be O--the Humanatee!
...please don't hurt me.
I must have been otherwise occupied during the 'psychic whale incident'.
Do tell!
Long story short, one of our well known Union RPers decided to start off an RP thread involving a psychic whale "villain", 2 or 3 posts in to it, an American RPer dropped into the thread and shoved a dirty great sword through the whales brain, lobotomising it and killing the thread dead...
She never tried open RP on the forums again... :(
That sounds like it was funny as hell putting a"dirty great sword through the whales brain"
In what way is completely killing the RP thread, funny? It was barely getting started, when along came this completely brainless pancaking idiot, who completely and utterly ruins it for everyone.
Yeah, funny as hell.
The whale had been biologically dead for years. Chopping up the tissue all you want would reveal the whale carcass nothing more than a host for something greater. The size of the object containing a greater, nefarious purpose.
So, there.
All because 1 dipstick couldn't keep his ego in his pants.
I don't know, but I did spend a lot of mental time trying to figure out what kinds of superpowers a half-man, half-seacow would have, so I could make the story of Subject O, an experiment in creating animal/human hybrids. He was going to be O--the Humanatee!
...please don't hurt me.
Please bear in mind that FFM is simplifying for brevity. There was at least one psychic present that was trying to communicate with the whale at the time, most of the heroes were trying to minimise public risk...
And then one person showed up and killed the whole story in one fell swoop.
It was kind of a dick move.
Please bear in mind that FFM is simplifying for brevity. There was at least one psychic present that was trying to communicate with the whale at the time, most of the heroes were trying to minimise public risk...
And then one person showed up and killed the whole story in one fell swoop.
It was kind of a dick move.
So there wasn't anything like "the psychic whale makes the person THINK they killed him" to keep the story going?
I never got that Posi hated altoholics from that article.
I didn't read the thread in question, but what I can say is that a lot of free-flow RP story telling is about creating a safe environment to explore ideas. If I was a participant in the thread, I might have attempted to do what you are implying could be done: basically declare open combat against someone actively trying to derail the story. But at best, that's a bandaid: once the mood is spoiled in a thread like that, its spoiled permanently. You can fight against forum turds like that, and you can even win, but you can't actually defend the thread, unless its completely populated by like-minded forum-combat-capable posters like yourself. You can't create a safe environment by stomping on all the dangerous people in it. At the end of the day, you've still created a war-zone.
So THAT'S the sword being discussed. Who knew? ;D
Sure he calls it a "problem"
Please bear in mind that FFM is simplifying for brevity. There was at least one psychic present that was trying to communicate with the whale at the time, most of the heroes were trying to minimise public risk...
And then one person showed up and killed the whole story in one fell swoop.
It was kind of a dick move.
Does light the whole scene in a much more disturbing way, doesn't it? <shudder>
(I'm just going to assume that Rule 34 applies and move on...)
I am not dis-agreeing that it was a bit of a dick move. There is no reason for some one to ruin the fun of others just because its not their kind of fun. However, you can't let a troll win so easily. Have it either work in your favor, or re-write, or because it was CoH and based on comic books you have the best and my personal favorite excuse for re-writing stories. Time travel and parallel dimension's.
/me tuts
Such dirty minds you lot, honestly!
I think what a lot of people need to realize is that when some people refer to "problem," it's not as much of a negative connotation as you would think. I don't think he was referring to it as a problem as in "we need to eliminate it" as much as he was referring to it as a problem as in "it's not something we planned for and therefore might have had to come up with a solution with our systems to compensate for it."
To put it another way, they might have thought that everyone would have between 2 and 5 characters, and then everyone wound up making around 45 on average (just a guesstimation), so that became a "problem" to them in the sense that maybe it was something they had to adjust to--not "create a cure for."
We're American. ;)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Ffacebook%2F000%2F064%2F320%2Famerica-f-yeah-motivational-escalator.jpg)I see you a picture and raise you a video :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R5A0pg4oN8
I don't know, but I did spend a lot of mental time trying to figure out what kinds of superpowers a half-man, half-seacow would have, so I could make the story of Subject O, an experiment in creating animal/human hybrids. He was going to be O--the Humanatee!
...please don't hurt me.
Having more players than you've scaled your servers for is a problem; that doesn't mean any MMO developer would hate to have that problem.
The interactivity level between the players and the developers also created lots of other problems, and yet they continued to encourage it. But there were lots of problems associated with it that were fairly unique to City of Heroes. A common problem that surrounded that was that players would read far more into what was said than the devs actually meant, sometimes in ways difficult to predict ahead of time. Case in point. Then that misperception would sometimes dog the devs indefinitely.
When Matt wrote his article explaining the issues with the AE that required the devs take action to curb the worst abuses, there was a contingent of players that tried to characterize his article as "angry" and the devs response as "vengeful" on his part specifically. This despite the fact that Positron displayed no anger in the post, and was not involved in the mechanics of the character freeze at all. I tried repeatedly to explain -to the best extent I felt was within my purview - precisely what happened there, but no one would listen. But because of an operator error who was not involved in the nature of the character banning at all, conspiracy theories persisted almost certainly to this day.
I think that what Posi was saying is that single character investment is generally a more powerful motivator for people than "and now you do the same thing all over again, just with a different character!"
This will not always be the case. Some people love alting. But I would bet that for the majority (possibly even the vast majority) of people, being able to progress a single character, because there is always something to do on that character, is preferable.
Or, to put it another way, before Inventions, how many people had "finished" the game, and quit because they didn't want to alt? Same question before Incarnates. Even CoH's legendary retention figures could have been better.
Speaking of excitement and planning for future toons . . .how do you get the i24 version? I just downloaded it a week ago and it only has the i23 stuff. I would actually like to build based on the i24 stuff just for giggles.
Is there anywhere left with a Mid's version that doesn't have I24 changes baked into it ?
Or any way to turn off the I24 stuff in the last version of Mid's?
I never played around with the data portion of the builder and just went with each release's version.
Having just re-downloaded it [all of my CoH related stuff has gotten lost in the past 2 years, due to HDD
issues and bad timing to overwrite my backup drive.], I'm finding all the new pools and such rather distracting.
You can try and argue that he isn't saying it was really a "problem" in the way we typically use the word
Is it possible to create a panda hero in Icon?
I always really liked Zwill's modding. I just thought he was awesome.
You people and your Furry things, it is a shame I lost my COH pictures when my harddrive died...else i would show you a true animal hero...
THE SEAGULL!
I am not dis-agreeing that it was a bit of a dick move. There is no reason for some one to ruin the fun of others just because its not their kind of fun.
If it had been a troll, it would have been easy. It wasn't... It was actually someone who was a known RPer... I won't name names though. As Arcana said earlier though, he totally ruined the mood.
I bet I have a pretty good idea as to the answer, given what you've described so far, but what was this 'hero's' reaction to other RPers being upset, and your upbraiding him?
He uses the word in exactly the same way I do: as something with detrimental effects that theoretically allows for a solution.
none can stand up to Back Alley Broiler!!!!!
Sadly I don't have a screenshot of my PB with a kilt and bunny ears called Epic McPhail
Sure there is: Rule 43
Since the "rules of the Internet" are not really a single list (other than Rule 34, which tends to remain constant in all variations), you should really specify which "Rule 43" you mean. There's "You can find anything on the Internet if you are willing to look for it long enough" and "It is a delicious trap. You must hit it", both of which are also Rule 43 on their respective "Rules of the Internet" lists (and are not the only such lists - Urban Dictionary has its own, with a much cruder Rule 43 that I won't copy here, as well as another 4chan site, with its own crude Rule 43 replacing the "delicious trap" one).
But I suspect the one meant here is "The more beautiful and pure a thing is, the more satisfying it is to corrupt it", which certainly applies to the situation in that thread.
That isn't what rule 43 is........unless this "sword" was something else.Rule 43: It is a delicious trap, you must hit it.
It does make it difficult to make the case that people just misunderstood one word he used when he backs it up with a bunch of other words that also suggest he didn't approve of alts. Even if he just has a terrible grasp of the English language you would think his poor choice of wording would occasionally skew in the other direction on that topic. When it always leans one direction, odds increase that these were his true feelings on the matter.
I just strongly disagree, both with this and with Positron's position. His article very much smacks of a "my play style is really the right way to play" even in giving lip service to those who play differently. He even identifies "good" and "bad" reasons to reroll, and I think his reasoning is entirely backward to my preferences.
You can try and argue that he isn't saying it was really a "problem" in the way we typically use the word, but he also uses the phrases "it had become so rampant", that it's "terrible that our focus gets split between two characters", and that it's a "bad reason" if you're just wanting to see how that combination works. When he adds in that "these are lessons other MMOs learned from and are subtly acting upon" and explains fixes like preventing any real customization at character creation, it's clear he really DID see it as a "problem" and overall, a negative trait to have in an MMO. And he makes it clear by talking about Rift's approach as a good model, which made him never want to roll an alt.
As pointed out, I find multiple rule 43s, but only one rule 34.
Rule 43 You can find anything on the Internet if you are willing to look for it long enough.
Rule 43 The more Beautiful and Pure a thing is - the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.
Rule 43 When you can pancake, you should pancake, you never know when the next opportunity may arise.
My favorite is the "When you can pancake" one though, that is new to me.
So I stuck with XP. There are of course the few who love those OS and never have any issues at all, but I find that if there is a way to have a problem with a computer related thing...I'll get it. When XP is working so well for me...I don't have any motivation to change.
The earlier discussion about the media coverage of Vista and Win 8 made me think about the media coverage of the recent NFL scandals. From the coverage in sports media, you would think the NFL fanbase is in an uproar and taking to the streets with pitchforks. But then you see the TV ratings and you realize the only real "outrage"...is in the media itself. The NFL fanbase doesn't actually seem to care.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/23/sports/football/tv-ratings-soar-amid-nfls-woes.html
My view of Vista and Win 8 however isn't actually based on any reaction from the media. I actually don't know what "the media" is for things like that. I never read any articles on about it. It's not like CNN or FoxNew covers it. My perception is 100% from friends and message boards. I decided against moving to Vista because players on the old CoH boards didn't like it. Something along the lines of 5-1 against it. ...So I stuck with XP. There are of course the few who love those OS and never have any issues at all, but I find that if there is a way to have a problem with a computer related thing...I'll get it. When XP is working so well for me...I don't have any motivation to change.
Ah that may be it then, I have always been more familiar with the crude one. Although I would have been more taken back if he had said "rule 34" applied to it haha.
What doesn't Rule 34 apply to?
What doesn't Rule 34 apply to?
What doesn't Rule 34 apply to?
Rule 34. And Margaret Thatcher.
Lol okay ya that's true.
Shhhh! If the wrong person catches wind of that statement........Then rule 34 would apply in the form of Margaret Thatcher with some kinda Rule 34 embodiment.
Actually, some of us on Union used that as a running gag. My char, being a shapeshifter, could turn herself into Maggie Thatcher, wearing very little... Best not to irritate her, y'know? ;) Well, not unless you want claw your own eyes out and your brain to shoot its way out through your ear and run for it...
I still remember the time she showed up as Margaret Thatcher... In full Mistress of Iron leather.
My poor toon needed therapy.
You do realise XP is completely out of support now, right? No security patches, nothing. Also, you're going to start coming across lots of apps that just won't run on it anymore.Oh sure....I was reminded of that a lot when it stopped. It was almost like alarm bells were going off on my PC! :D
Lets see, his bio would go something like this:
Mr. Oliver Limpit, a mild-mannered accountant for a large health care conglomerant, with the help of really questionable/morally ambiguous science and the love of Trichechidae Trichechus, became O--the Humanatee!
As the lone sentinel of the Florida shore, O dispenses marine justice with a swift swat of his well-trained flipper.
Ever vigilant as he munches the tender sea grasses, shoal grass, manatee grass, turtle grass, widgeon grass, sea clover, and marine algae of his aquatic protectorate.
Oh sure....I was reminded of that a lot when it stopped. It was almost like alarm bells were going off on my PC! :D
But everything was going along the same as before until I recently reformated and reinstalled XP. Now suddenly things stopped working. I can only assume this is related to XP being non-supported now since I never had those things happen the other times I reformated. (Like Skype won't work for me now!)
This, coupled with a potential for a new rig due to a possible return of a certain game I used to play, is making me look into it. It seems Win 7 is the way to go.
Oh sure....I was reminded of that a lot when it stopped. It was almost like alarm bells were going off on my PC! :D
But everything was going along the same as before until I recently reformated and reinstalled XP. Now suddenly things stopped working. I can only assume this is related to XP being non-supported now since I never had those things happen the other times I reformated. (Like Skype won't work for me now!)
This, coupled with a potential for a new rig due to a possible return of a certain game I used to play, is making me look into it. It seems Win 7 is the way to go.
Actually, Dell and Toshiba are still selling Win7 computers. We just bought 3x Dell PCs with Win7-64 Pro on them.
Any suggestions? I'm gunna need something when we get the game back. ???
Any suggestions? I'm gunna need something when we get the game back. ???
Only when context is ignored: Take the word "terrible:"
Good reasons for making an alt: I discovered I liked something better ("this playstyle fits me better"); I want to make something that will be situationally better sometimes ("I have more fun in PvP" and "My raid needs X").
Bad reason: I have no choice ("I want to see how this top-tier talent works"); I think my choice is wrong ("everyone is playing, so I might as well too"); the game isn't appealing to me anymore ("I'm bored.")
In this paragraph Matt unambiguously provides context to the entire article. FROM A GAME DESIGNER'S PERSPECTIVE there are good reasons for your players making a lot of alts, and bad ones. The good ones are: the players genuinely enjoy the variety. The bad ones are: the players feel compelled to do so because the game limits them in some way that forces the creation of alts.
Not remotely coincidentally, these arguments are exactly the same arguments the players themselves constantly presented to the devs as the basis for making game design decisions. If this article was written by a player, asking the devs to focus on the "good" reasons why he made alts and not on the "bad" reasons why he made alts, I don't think anyone would have been parsing his words and accusing him of secretly hating alts altogether. They wouldn't be saying that anyone who uses those words must be hiding a dislike for alts that is leaking through to his semantic choices.
The article ends on this note:
You don't need a ouija board to guess at the implications of some of the single words Matt uses, when his whole sentences convey the idea unambiguously.
Personally, I'd recommend against pre-built computers. Really, it depends on how skilled you are with hardware, and how much money you have to spend.
Personally, I'd recommend against pre-built computers. Really, it depends on how skilled you are with hardware, and how much money you have to spend.
build it yourself..
Personally, I'd recommend against pre-built computers. Really, it depends on how skilled you are with hardware, and how much money you have to spend.
I'm just going to chime in on the modular PSU, don't go any other route. They're so flippn' awesome. Gone are days of a giant bundle of cord coming off it, half of which you don't even need.
I'll never forget the guy who played a character called "Killer Whale", it was a invul/ss tank and he rp'd it perfectly. I only remember seeing him for the first six months or so of coh, I remember there were lots of rumours of him being banned for erp or something along those lines. I also hazily remember something being said of him confronting the devs on the forum about a major issue with the game that also may have lead to his banning. If anyone remembers or knows what actually happened PLEASE let me know, I'd love to hear about that just to put my misinformed nostalgia at ease.
Also yes Panda people existed, although the cat people definitely won the numbers game. Holy yiff balls were there always a lot of car rp'rs...
Killer Whale ended up leaving the game when in-game ads became a thing (JETER CLUTCH!). He felt it was terrible that you would have to "opt out" of them rather than "opt in".
I'm just going to chime in on the modular PSU, don't go any other route. They're so flippn' awesome. Gone are days of a giant bundle of cord coming off it, half of which you don't even need.
My first PC ever was a Dell that my grandma financed for me (bless her heart). After that though I've built every other one I've owned. Its really easy tbh. Its basically plug and go.
Tried building a PC on my own once, a couple years ago. Just didn't work out - never could get it to consistently recognize all RAM and was surprised the fan speed was controlled by software vs the motherboard. Guess you have to have the knack - I don't.
I watched the youtube videos over and over and over and over.. Once I absorbed the process it was a matter of taking my time.. my system has been running solid for a year now.. no hiccups.. unless you count when my three year old decided to download every game he could find with every possible piece of malware attached..
Well, Microsoft own Skype, and have discontinued it for all unsupported OS's. Really, that's just the beginning of things you're going to see happening.Mostly I learned that I can't reformat now. :( Skype worked fine last week! lol...
If you're buying a brand new rig, odds are it will have Windows 8 or 8.1 preinstalled unless you're building your own from scratch. If it does, I would recommend trying it out for yourself before scratching it down to Windows 7. When half the population loves it and half hates it, you can't be sure which group you will fall into. There's no harm in trying it out for yourself first and deciding first hand. Particularly if you decide you like 8.1 Update 1, which is the version that is closest in UI to Windows 7 (you could also get something like Classic Start to get the start bar back as others have pointed out).I'll be building it myself I think. I am pretty amateur with regard to computers but still managed to build a Pro Tools rig that has worked for several years without a problem. As Heatstroke outlined, I just read articles about building and got advice from PT users about which parts work together. Ordered everything and put it together in an afternoon.
I did kinda get lucky on the Win 8 thing. My girlfriend just got it and I got to see it in person. Admittedly it was difficult to see the screen at times through the fog of curse words emanating from her mouth as she used it though. She's very expressive. 8) These days you can instantly put her into a bad mood with the magic word "Windows 8".
Personally, I'd recommend against pre-built computers. Really, it depends on how skilled you are with hardware, and how much money you have to spend.
Tell her to update to 8.1 (It's free and in the Windows Store). Then get that updated to Update 1, and install Classic Shell. You'll get a big hug from her. ;)I will do that! I'm always in the market for a hug. ;) Thanks.
Personally, I'd recommend against pre-built computers. Really, it depends on how skilled you are with hardware, and how much money you have to spend.
I've posted here (or similar meandering threads) that a CoX-capable machine can be had for less than $200. You can spend more than this if you want, but you will not play any better because of it. I've built 3 (average cost $175), because when the game comes back, I want me AND my two sons, who also played until the end, to be able to jump right back in.
And as far as "skilled with hardware", your fellow CoX-players can and will help out. Find some tech nerd in your metro area. I've already volunteered my own services to any fellow players in or around Phoenix, AZ. We're a community, pancake it, and that's what we're supposed to do for each other.
I've posted here (or similar meandering threads) that a CoX-capable machine can be had for less than $200. You can spend more than this if you want, but you will not play any better because of it. I've built 3 (average cost $175), because when the game comes back, I want me AND my two sons, who also played until the end, to be able to jump right back in.
And as far as "skilled with hardware", your fellow CoX-players can and will help out. Find some tech nerd in your metro area. I've already volunteered my own services to any fellow players in or around Phoenix, AZ. We're a community, pancake it, and that's what we're supposed to do for each other.
I can safely say the worst part of building any given PC is the power supply's installation.
I always thought it was when you discovered your case holes didn't quite line up with your motherboard.
The absolute WORST part of building your own PC, is turning it on for the first time.... and nothing happens!
I really like the globe model in Atlas Plaza at 3:05.
I've often wondered why they swapped out from that frame-work globe to the solid version on live AP.
At a guess? People kept getting stuck inside it?
I always thought Virtue was the home of the catgirls :DI had a character in the Legion of Catgirls SG on Guardian, so Virtue wasn't particularly exclusive.
At a guess? People kept getting stuck inside it?
More likely to be a performance related reason.i would tend to guess both. To make a hollow framework requires a lot more geometry and depending on the size of the openings you might be able to get a result like the old guard towers in various zones before doors were added.
I had a character in the Legion of Catgirls SG on Guardian, so Virtue wasn't particularly exclusive.Same here, actually. i don't think Virtue was especially notable for having a higher catgirl ratio. i'm almost tempted to say as a percentage of the population it was lower, but i don't actually have any numbers to back it up and being a member of the SG would almost certainly skew my personal observations. :-[
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=img4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20090906032000%2Ffreedomforce%2Fimages%2F2%2F2e%2FNuclearwinter.png)
http://freedomforce.wikia.com/wiki/Nuclear_Winter
Same here, actually. i don't think Virtue was especially notable for having a higher catgirl ratio. i'm almost tempted to say as a percentage of the population it was lower, but i don't actually have any numbers to back it up and being a member of the SG would almost certainly skew my personal observations. :-[I had a cat guy on Guardian who was offered honorary membership in the Legion of Catgrls.
My first PC ever was a Dell that my grandma financed for me (bless her heart). After that though I've built every other one I've owned. Its really easy tbh. Its basically plug and go.
Wow, $175? Are you salvaging parts and OS from another computer?
Not really. I re-used my existing 22" monitor, and a keyboard and mouse. Everything else was acquired. Here's the basic breakdown:
$30-ish for HP mini-desktop with Intel Core Duo (2.1 to 2.4 GHz) and 1 to 4 GB RAM (has PCIx-16 slot for video card -- that's critical) (eBay)
$20-ish to upgrade from 1 to 4 GB RAM (or if it came with more Ram, the above will be higher and this lower) (eBay)
$30 for least expensive new SATAII HDD (NewEgg)
$70 for GeForce 640 GT card PCIx-16 (I got a $40 rebate one 1 of the 3) (NewEgg)
$30 for Windows 7 home premium COA (eBay), downloaded installation ISO from MS web site
Of the 3 mini-desktops I bought, 2 had CDRW/DVD-ROM combo drives and one had DVD-ROM.
I also spent $11 to get a multi-card-reader that would fit into the floppy bay (for only the one I'm keeping).
You have to know enough to get the proper RAM type for the machine, and to buy a machine with a PCIx16 slot and then a video card that goes into that type of slot. FWIW, PICx16 1.0 can almost always take 2.0 cards (which are all you can find new). Almost everything else is so standardized these days that you will be able to slap it all together and it will work.
Note that the eBay stuff was used (of course) whereas the NewEgg parts were new (HDD and video card).
I forgot $1 each for a special type of screw needed to mount the HDD into the "modular bay" of the machines. No biggy there.
I still remember my first PC, an ITT Xtra -- an XT clone -- and the things I did with it. Buying a 20Mb hard drive for $400 and wondering how I'd ever have enough programs and data to fill it up. Adding an aftermarket upgrade to boost it from 4.77MHz to (IIRC) 6.8MHz, and discovering that the system had an early SIO chip (the controller for the serial port) that wouldn't run at the higher speed, so I had to pull the computer apart, unsolder the SIO chip to remove it from the motherboard, and solder in a replacement. The upgrade to a 10MHz XT clone, adding an ARLL (Advanced Run-Length Limited) controller card that would let me not quite double the space on a standard hard drive when Seagate was having reliability issues with its RLL drives. Buying a pair of AST RAMpage expanded 2Mb expanded-memory cards that I only had populated to 1.5Mb when the price of 256kb x 1 DIP RAM chips went through the roof. Having to MacGuyver what was essentially a CPU fan because the 1/4" high heat sink glued to the CPU wasn't enough to keep it cool during the summer. Coming away from a computer show with ten copies of a VGA demo on highly-reusable 3.5" 1.44Mb HD floppies when they were new and a box of ten cost $65.00...
I had a character in the Legion of Catgirls SG on Guardian, so Virtue wasn't particularly exclusive.
^ You're all wrong.
The absolute WORST part of building your own PC, is turning it on for the first time.... and nothing happens!
^ You're all wrong.
The absolute WORST part of building your own PC, is turning it on for the first time.... and nothing happens!
Nah, the worst part is if someone calls you under these circumstances and your required to go through a script saying this;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8
And if you worked IT during the 90s it was the solution to about 90% of all calls. About 8% was something not plugged in.
Don't forget all the "The computers cup holder snapped off" complaints...
I think the worst case I had to deal with was someone who didn't know what the start menu was, and very frequently did something entirely differant than what I asked of her. It took me 50 minutes to walk the woman through something that would have otherwise just took 6-10 minutes because said person was very prone to just do other things even when the instruction was very clearly stated.
I think the worst case I had to deal with was someone who didn't know what the start menu was, and very frequently did something entirely differant than what I asked of her. It took me 50 minutes to walk the woman through something that would have otherwise just took 6-10 minutes because said person was very prone to just do other things even when the instruction was very clearly stated.i worked at a place in the 90s that had a computer set up in the printer cartridge aisle so that you could look up which one you needed for your printer on your own. We had one of the keys on the keyboard labeled "any" because the signage said "Press Any Key To Begin" and it greatly reduced the number of people asking for help using the self-service system.
i worked at a place in the 90s that had a computer set up in the printer cartridge aisle so that you could look up which one you needed for your printer on your own. We had one of the keys on the keyboard labeled "any" because the signage said "Press Any Key To Begin" and it greatly reduced the number of people asking for help using the self-service system.
You'd need to be seriously careful about shenanigans. Old equipment can have faults in them, and heck, may even be the reason people are trying to get rid of it is because its about to break, hasn't, but they know it will, so they put it on ebay or craigs list. At least you get a new hard drive.
I had a character in the Legion of Catgirls SG on Guardian, so Virtue wasn't particularly exclusive.
Look for offices that are unloading computers that are just out of warranty. I have a Dell mini that was new enough to be Windows 7 capable (downgraded to Windows XP) that could handle 8GB of DDR2 for under $100, but the place I worked at the time had bought something like 35 of them for $50 to $75 a piece as part of the "replacement package" when we upgraded their server and all of their desktops. (It was a big law firm in a state capitol. :) )
As a game designer, there are in fact good and bad reasons to reroll from a game design perspective, assuming as a game designer you have any sort of design goals whatsoever. For example, if people are rerolling because they've lost interest in continuing to play the game with an alt, or feel the earlier parts of the game are more interesting, that suggests a failure for anyone who wants to make a game entertaining at every level.
...
For those that can't shift perspectives to that of the game designer or implementer rather than the player, I would recommend staying away from developer diaries. Designers and implementers engineer things with intent and purpose. You can get lucky and discover that they those things are even more useful in other contexts, but no good designer relies on luck or takes credit for luck. When players find alternate uses for the things you design, you can acknowledge the fortune involved with that while also realizing it still represents a failing on your part when the original intent and purpose is discarded. Its easy from the outside for players to believe that it should be solely up to them to decide how a game is played, but no designer who leaves their work up to chance will succeed in the long run. Ultimately, they will fail miserably and edit themselves out of the genetic pool of the design community.
Those who simply refused to acknowledge that the devs not only could but must have a purposeful intent to their work, those who thought that "vision" was a curse word, lets just say were consistently less successful at doing so than the rest.
I've often wondered why they swapped out from that frame-work globe to the solid version on live AP.
I studied both design communication and also rhetoric quite a bit in my undergrad Professional/Technical Writing degree, and my original Thesis for my Masters in Professional Writing was specifically on design decisions in an MMO (relating to communication and new user experiences).
I have no problem at all recognizing that designers and players often have different, sometimes opposing, goals. That being said, in Matt's article his rhetoric clearly implies a very -strong- feeling of dissatisfaction with the desire to create alternate characters in CoH users. It goes even farther, at times, than dissatisfaction into outright disapproval.
Look at your example of a "failure" or "bad" reason to roll and alt from a design perspective. It closely alligns to one of Matt's: the desire by a player to reroll "because they've lost interest in continuing to play the game with an alt." This makes very little sense, from a design standpoint. It suggests that every player's experience, regardless of archetype choice, powerset choice, etc. be exactly similar. That's the only way, from a design standpoint, you could hope to prevent human users from ever desiring to try another "choice." Yet if that were the case there would be no need for archetypes or power variety in game in the first place. Simply make all changes cosmetic and be done with it, So there's never any reason for a user to wonder what the game is like from another set of choices. That, or allow every single player to have every single option on every single toon in the first place. The second option is actually the one Matt mentions admiring in Rift's design. It was also the design intention behind The Secret World.
If your goal IS to allow players to experience different playstyles and experiences, then by nature your goal ALSO includes the desire for each playstyle or experience to have benefits and uniqueness. In a system like that, where the design decision included "differences", then the eventual satisfaction with achievement in one experience or playstyle naturally lends itself to desire experiencing others, as well. That's simply recognizing human behavior in your design choices, and is a direct result of your intended goals.
I would argue that the reason that alts were so prevalent in CoH is precisely because the Devs had such a strong desire, from launch on (I know beta was different) to make sure that the game offered an incredible amount of variety beyond just its amazing cosmetic variation, and each one offered something worth experiencing. This WAS the intended design. I think that has been obvious launch, demonstrated in the decisions to allow multiple character slots at launch, the continuous launch of new power sets which could only be experienced via rolling entirely new characters, and even with the launch of Epic and Heroic Archetypes, which actually REWARDED you for achieving a certain level with an unlocked alt you would actually need to reroll to experience. Enticing players to want to roll alts was a key part of the design of City of Heroes from at LEAST launch on, not some side effect of a mistake on the devs' part.
Regardless. my point was that it's entirely understandable that many players took his article to mean he didn't like Alts, and thought a good MMO would really have little to no need for them, given both his rhetorical structure and diction in that article. Maybe it was just poorly written and wasn't what was intended, but to pin that on the readers instead of the writer is....misguided.
i worked at a place in the 90s that had a computer set up in the printer cartridge aisle so that you could look up which one you needed for your printer on your own. We had one of the keys on the keyboard labeled "any" because the signage said "Press Any Key To Begin" and it greatly reduced the number of people asking for help using the self-service system.
Thats often why I say CoX was a game that could truely be called an mmorpg. Because it gave such a huge variety of powersets and supported to many playstyles from the onset. The game had tremendous replayability for it. I didn't think altitus was necessarily bad. I did know some people who had so many alts they never got to 50, but I actually had a modest number of 50s and had some altitus myself.
But see, I think Matt was trying to still be the traditional mmorpg developer. Most traditional mmorpgs, your discouraged from alts, severely, as you only have a limited number of playstyles, and then they just keep raising the level limit.
Look for offices that are unloading computers that are just out of warranty.
I also think MMOs need to look at this from a new perspective. Most evidence suggests that players blast through new content in a matter of days, some just hours, others weeks. This simply ISN'T a sustainable way to keep players' interest without forcing them to "grind", which turns off a sizeable number of players.
But by the same token, "grinding" is exactly what a lot of players look for. It is not a coincidence that the most successful MMO in the history of the world is one that explicitly encourages you to reach the level cap quickly and then spend weeks and months and years working at tiny, incremental improvements to the efficacy of your character. :)
...
I understand that everyone here has a hard time wrapping their heads around that, myself included. But we are a self-selected audience of people who wanted what CoH was selling. The larger world of "MMO players" wanted endgame content, and Positron recognized that and gave it to them. I don't think he was mistaken, either in recognizing that deficiency in the game or in working to fix it. If anything, I think he was about twenty issues too late.
I totally agree with you on this. Like I said, I don't think Matt was -wrong- to say what he said, though I very much disagree with his conclusions, but I do think it presented alting in a way that was easily understood to be a very serious negative, even though he gave lip service to "but don't get me wrong, I love you guys."
I also think MMOs need to look at this from a new perspective. Most evidence suggests that players blast through new content in a matter of days, some just hours, others weeks. This simply ISN'T a sustainable way to keep players' interest without forcing them to "grind", which turns off a sizeable number of players.
You really need to balance replayability and differentiation with continued new content. In short, you want to really try to appeal to as many types of players as you can, and I think CoH did an excellent job at that, once they introduced Incarnate content, even though I don't think it was perfect by any means.
But by the same token, "grinding" is exactly what a lot of players look for. It is not a coincidence that the most successful MMO in the history of the world is one that explicitly encourages you to reach the level cap quickly and then spend weeks and months and years working at tiny, incremental improvements to the efficacy of your character. :) It is something that a lot of players look for, and I have first-hand experience of trying to convince people to come from EQ or WoW during the pre-Incarnate days only to be asked, "But what do you do once you hit 50?" Quite literally, they had already mentally skipped the entire leveling process in their heads as inconsequential and wanted to know what the next step was. And when told that you started over again at 1 with a different character, they lost interest in even trying the game.
I understand that everyone here has a hard time wrapping their heads around that, myself included. But we are a self-selected audience of people who wanted what CoH was selling. The larger world of "MMO players" wanted endgame content, and Positron recognized that and gave it to them. I don't think he was mistaken, either in recognizing that deficiency in the game or in working to fix it. If anything, I think he was about twenty issues too late.
Regardless. my point was that it's entirely understandable that many players took his article to mean he didn't like Alts, and thought a good MMO would really have little to no need for them, given both his rhetorical structure and diction in that article. Maybe it was just poorly written and wasn't what was intended, but to pin that on the readers instead of the writer is....misguided.
As I used to say on the game forums, extend the benefit of the doubt you wish to receive. No one survives uncooperative readers: no one.
I don't even consider those players rpg players because of that. They have gotten into their heads that end game and more "power" and more "power" is the be all end all. Honestly, when I think about that, this makes me think less of these kinds of players. Because while I didn't mind incarnate content for example, I also enjoyed leveling up and seeing how other things played. These kinds of players? Power is the be-all-end-all and the amount of it is the be-all-end-all. They'd make horrible story writers, though i'm sure that'd be ok for a typical anime(bad one, not good one).
No one is all one thing (at least, few are). I liked leveling my alts. I also had my power-mad days. Enjoying the end-game power pursuit grind-fest wasn't mutually exclusive from enjoying the more conventional levels of play.
On the day they announced shutdown, my lowest active alt (meaning, an alt I was playing several times a week minimum) was in the teens (a water blaster) and my highest was my main that was running tons of incarnate trials, already had multiple tier 4s in every incarnate slot, and was still trying to make more Lore pets.
I actually believe there were a lot of players that were generalists in that regard; willing and able to enjoy almost any mode of gameplay in the game. I even occasionally liked to PvP, just to PvP (just to get my ass kicked usually, but I did get the PvP badge with no farming so I did win at least sometimes).
Go figure. I was pretty balanced to. I had lowbies and I had my high level characters. I tried sets out for science, know? The only people I was really targeting with that statement were those who'd instantly move on if they saw there was no end game. Some gamers, for some players power is in a way the big deal for them. Heck, even I can be that way, somewhat, but I don't enjoy losing challenge. But I see beyond just the number. In fact, I don't actually care about bigger, and bigger numbers. When there is to much obsession with numbers, I feel, in a games development, particularly always increasing the level cap endlessly and then upping the damage numbers, I'm often left "ok what does level really mean then if the cap is always increasing? Like your devaluing individual levels".
I just feel that way about some people. As I said, I was targeting the people who left the game when they were told there wasn't an end game. I remember one guy likewise who hated the level cap of guild wars, it was all he cared about. Every time he'd log on after factions came out, the only question he'd ask was "did they increase the level cap" and I told him "No and they don't plan to". He'd log off after. Every time. All he cared about was power.
As I used to say on the game forums, extend the benefit of the doubt you wish to receive. No one survives uncooperative readers: no one.
Go figure. I was pretty balanced to. I had lowbies and I had my high level characters. I tried sets out for science, know? The only people I was really targeting with that statement were those who'd instantly move on if they saw there was no end game.
there were players willing to alt for variety, but for whom even alting became a form of grind because the difference between alts wasn't high enough to consistently provide the level of gameplay variety they wanted, and for whom alting was one activity that needed to be balanced with more depth-oriented character progression in the long run. For those people, higher order progression first in the form of the invention system and second in the form of the incarnate system was a god-send. It wasn't that they were just passing time until the end game arrived, it was that the end game provided a counterbalance to alt-leveling that made the game more enjoyable overall, and without which many people eventually got bored and quit.
...
But at the end of the day, I think most min/maxers weren't really interested in the numbers for their own sake. They were interested in being able to log into the game and do something interesting or unique with those numbers, with their characters. And that was part of the attraction of having an "end-game" available which was less end game and more "higher-game." It was constantly opening doors to more possibilities. Yes, those possibilities were usually ultimately about more firepower and more staying power, but not always. For myself, it was about pushing the envelope of gameplay experience. That's why I tended to focus on improving the strength of my blaster more than, say, my fire tanker. My fire tanker could farm the dickens past my blaster, but improving that build to do that, only a little faster, wasn't as interesting as taking my blaster and transforming her over time into an ever increasingly powerful energy cannon that could also stay alive, and explicitly through active blasting (knockback is bad? tell it to the enemy critters I threw into that tree).
I can safely say the worst part of building any given PC is the power supply's installation.
Believe me there were a lot of pseudo-numbers posters on the forums that made a lot of claims experienced players knew were complete crap, but the discussion required to prove it would sail over the heads of most of the readers of the thread. That can be very frustrating. Being able to prove the theory with an unimpeachable practical result was very attractive to many players who otherwise enjoyed discussing build theory.i remember you running the numbers for someone who claimed their Dark/Dark Defender could solo Romulus on the ITF in four minutes. No matter how many people explained using basic math what the actual numbers were and how implausible, if not outright impossible, their claim was they kept insisting that they routinely did it without cheating, but refused to provide any proof. It was almost impressive in a way.
But at the end of the day, I think most min/maxers weren't really interested in the numbers for their own sake. They were interested in being able to log into the game and do something interesting or unique with those numbers, with their characters. And that was part of the attraction of having an "end-game" available which was less end game and more "higher-game." It was constantly opening doors to more possibilities. Yes, those possibilities were usually ultimately about more firepower and more staying power, but not always. For myself, it was about pushing the envelope of gameplay experience. That's why I tended to focus on improving the strength of my blaster more than, say, my fire tanker. My fire tanker could farm the dickens past my blaster, but improving that build to do that, only a little faster, wasn't as interesting as taking my blaster and transforming her over time into an ever increasingly powerful energy cannon that could also stay alive, and explicitly through active blasting (knockback is bad? tell it to the enemy critters I threw into that tree).
Buying computer parts makes me cry. So- Much- Money... that I don't have.
I'd rather install a thousand power supplies than one mobo, lol.
I don't even consider those players rpg players because of that. They have gotten into their heads that end game and more "power" and more "power" is the be all end all. Honestly, when I think about that, this makes me think less of these kinds of players. Because while I didn't mind incarnate content for example, I also enjoyed leveling up and seeing how other things played. These kinds of players? Power is the be-all-end-all and the amount of it is the be-all-end-all. They'd make horrible story writers, though i'm sure that'd be ok for a typical anime(bad one, not good one).
Hello,
Checking in, has there been any progress in September?
Thanks :)
I think that what Posi was saying is that single character investment is generally a more powerful motivator for people than "and now you do the same thing all over again, just with a different character!"
For those that can't shift perspectives to that of the game designer or implementer rather than the player, I would recommend staying away from developer diaries. Designers and implementers engineer things with intent and purpose. You can get lucky and discover that they those things are even more useful in other contexts, but no good designer relies on luck or takes credit for luck. When players find alternate uses for the things you design, you can acknowledge the fortune involved with that while also realizing it still represents a failing on your part when the original intent and purpose is discarded. Its easy from the outside for players to believe that it should be solely up to them to decide how a game is played, but no designer who leaves their work up to chance will succeed in the long run. Ultimately, they will fail miserably and edit themselves out of the genetic pool of the design community.
This ability to simultaneously understand the desires of the players and the fact that the game designers had to have their own design goals as well was something I tried to educate players on while the game was running, particularly when they came to me for advice in communicating their ideas to the devs. Those who simply refused to acknowledge that the devs not only could but must have a purposeful intent to their work, those who thought that "vision" was a curse word, lets just say were consistently less successful at doing so than the rest.
Hello,Trust me, you won't have to ask when there's more news.
Checking in, has there been any progress in September?
Thanks :)
But the thing is, as a game designer you don't have the luxury of saying, "Your way of having fun isn't as good as my way of having fun." (Despite a previous lead developer for CoH thinking exactly that...) It's Positron's job to accommodate as many playstyles, as many goals, and as many players as he can so long as they're not mutually exclusive and so long as he has the resources to do so. Incarnate content was for the people who saw starting over at level 1 as a waste of time and effort, and wanted to continue making their main character more powerful. That may not be something you saw as useful, and maybe you even think less of people who have that as a goal. (I'm sure they feel the same way about you.) But it doesn't hurt anyone to give them what they want, and it's not like we weren't getting more new powersets to try right up until the end. (Nature Affinity and Beast Mastery, for example, were really cool and innovative.) I'm really just saying that Positron was right to recognize that the game didn't include a lot of people, and to expand it to include those people. As someone who despises being railroaded into a certain playstyle, I'd think you would support that. :)
But by the same token, "grinding" is exactly what a lot of players look for. It is not a coincidence that the most successful MMO in the history of the world is one that explicitly encourages you to reach the level cap quickly and then spend weeks and months and years working at tiny, incremental improvements to the efficacy of your character. :) It is something that a lot of players look for, and I have first-hand experience of trying to convince people to come from EQ or WoW during the pre-Incarnate days only to be asked, "But what do you do once you hit 50?" Quite literally, they had already mentally skipped the entire leveling process in their heads as inconsequential and wanted to know what the next step was. And when told that you started over again at 1 with a different character, they lost interest in even trying the game.I really like this post.
I understand that everyone here has a hard time wrapping their heads around that, myself included. But we are a self-selected audience of people who wanted what CoH was selling. The larger world of "MMO players" wanted endgame content, and Positron recognized that and gave it to them. I don't think he was mistaken, either in recognizing that deficiency in the game or in working to fix it. If anything, I think he was about twenty issues too late.
There has been talks of pancake but that's about it.
I'm unsure of his opinion of the RIFT model and the resulting lack of any need to have alts (from what I understand; I've only tried the game very briefly.) The thing is, I hate that model, but I had to think about why. When I think of a character's capabilities, that collection of game attributes is inextricably linked to a sense of that character's identity. If I envision a story for a character then what that character is able to do is integral. That isn't to say I'm the world's biggest RP'er; indeed not all of my CoH characters had a fleshed-out backstory, but I still had a sense that, for example, my Sonic/Ice blaster's identity is linked to those powersets. There is a middle ground here of course; my CoH characters didn't have access at level 1 to all the powers they would eventually have, but the progression didn't break any sense of identity. Genre is also very important. The superhero genre is perhaps the least forgiving in terms of allowing dramatic capability shifts without a good in-story reason; we expect the general direction of a character's capabilities to be largely "baked-in" with his/her/its origin story. When a game allows too much freedom to have a character become all things that sense of identity is eroded for me. If I want to go in a significantly different mechanical direction then I want to develop a new identity for that direction, and watch that identity develop from a "fresh" beginning.
Here is the website I was referencing to earlier
http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/
This is the computer I'm going to make xD
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/j2dcBm
Thank you for this! That is indeed a very handy website and I have it bookmarked. Good luck with your build and the Cyber Monday sales! ;D
The fact remains though, that CoX was/is the single most Alt friendly and Altitis encouraging MMO ever made. Heck, the sheer number of possible powerset combinations practically screams for making multiple characters.
I really like this post.
It might be more honest to say that players who prefer the WoW style of play aren't "dumb", "wrong", or "don't like having fun". They just have fun a different way than CoH players do.
It could just be that we, as a group, are a bit of an outlier in the gaming world. When we are all together talking about gaming, we of course feel that people who like other types of games are somehow doing it wrong...but they say the same about us. "Fun" is subjective.
Which is a great way of illustrating why CoH needs to exist. We might be a small group, but we exist and other games don't do "it" for us. I've tried other games and nothing else works for me. I'm only a "gamer" when CoH exists. Otherwise I don't play games. There is a real place in this world for the unique thing that is CoH.
Like others said, I'm a bit of a mix. I had a bunch of "mains". 16 lvl 50s...all of which I played over the course of a month. (some more than others) I would say I spent 70-80% of my time playing them. So I had some "WoW" attitude there. When I leveled a new character, my mind was always on the "finish line". I didn't really like not having all my powers. But there was that part of me that did love trying new powersets so I had the "alting" bug too....just not as much as some others. I still get the itch to try some new combinations. I mean...Ice/Storm isn't the same as Ill/Storm!
Although in any case, I suspect that the Win7/Win8 schism is going to be mostly resolved by Windows 9
Or not (http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2014/09/30/announcing-windows-10/).
i remember you running the numbers for someone who claimed their Dark/Dark Defender could solo Romulus on the ITF in four minutes. No matter how many people explained using basic math what the actual numbers were and how implausible, if not outright impossible, their claim was they kept insisting that they routinely did it without cheating, but refused to provide any proof. It was almost impressive in a way.
Another poster claimed regen was so weak because without mitigation healing and regeneration were worthless. They went so far as to claim a single boss could kill regen in three hits. Normally I assume people are just being hyperbolic or exaggerating to make a point, but this was a bit too far (and it was being used to literally support the point that without damage reduction the regeneration set could not be effective at all) so I offered this poster a way out to back down on that statement. Instead, they doubled down and claimed they weren't just exaggerating but reporting actual in-game experience.
Calculations trivially proved this statement false, but of course "numbers aren't everything" so I had to resort to making this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKj7yxzrlOs). I did a back of the envelope calculation of the maximum survivable damage for a level 34 regen scrapper I had. I unslottted all the inventions and put nothing but SOs and a few common IOs I had lying around, and found a Rikti boss spawn of just about the right damage to be at the break even point, which turned out to be two chief soldiers in melee and a mesmerist boss at range. It takes a *long* time for them to eventually get me. Basically, the video shows with Dull Pain up its just not possible for two Chief Soldiers to take down a regen scrapper. With Dull Pain down it is possible, but impossible for just one to do so. And this was the worst case scenario where you're not getting any help from the primary.
Funny thing: got no response from that particular poster. However, they would return every few months or so to make the exact same claim, whereupon I would just post the video in response. After a while, they stopped making the claim and moved on to other more absurd claims.
I guess the issue for me is that Positron's "vision" ended up being something that I perceived as "let's put in grindy end game raids like every other game!". I can appreciate that he has a vision and that it's important to have one, but if I don't like the vision, I'm not sure where that leaves me.
Living in the real world I suppose.
Many players hated the inventions system, and many of them left because of it. Many others loved it, and went as far to say that the invention system kept the game fresh for them and caused them to stay when they otherwise might have left. Its clear in retrospect that the decision to add the invention system had no right answer if you are measuring that by whether the decision causes harm to the playerbase. Adding it caused harm: not adding it would have caused harm. The game didn't last long enough to make a similar judgment about the incarnate system, but I suspect a similar thing would have been true: adding it cost players, not adding it would have also cost players in the long run.
I personally think the invention system gained or retained more players than it cost overall: whether you were a single-character focused player or an alt-generator the invention system was overall a net positive, although that would be difficult to prove. I think the incarnate system was player-neutral at the time of the shutdown, but I think it would have turned positive over time as the developers expanded to non-trial aspects of it.
If you were one of the players that didn't and would never like it, there's nothing much to say. Its not that I want your gaming experience degraded, but if you asked me if I would have been willing to trade the invention system away to get back the players it cost the game, I would have to honestly answer "no."
Which, incidentally, brushes up against the asymmetry associated with alting. This is something I actually discussed with the devs occasionally in different guises, in particular when I was part of the Freedom focus group. This is a huge oversimplification for discussion purposes, but the wedge between those that want focused progression and those that want a variety of alts isn't in their differing desires, its actually how they interact with an overlapping player type: completists.
A "deep" (for lack of a short descriptor) completist wants to do everything on a single character. If it exists in the game, they want to do it at least once, get it at least once, have at least one of it. They want every badge, they want everything unlocked, they want to have done every mission at least once. Every time the devs add something they cannot experience on a single character that is related to making more characters, like power sets, they see that as time that could be spent making the game deeper for them: its an opportunity cost.
However, that's not true going the other way. an alt-completist wants to try every possible character type: every kind of archetype, every powerset, maybe even every powerset combination eventually. But they *also* tend to want those alts to be "first class citizens" which means to a large extent if they do it on one, they want to do it on all, or at least a large percentage of them. They want badges on more than one alt, they want to do mission content on more than one alt, they want to progress to the maximum progressional levels on every alt.
When you add depth to the game rather than breadth, the impact on alt-completists isn't that there's an opportunity cost, its that there's the potential to place a lot of content out of reach. Now, adding powersets also adds content out of reach of the deep-completists, but because they are deep players they already made that decision to forgo exploring alternate characters in the first place. Its adding content in an area they already decided not to go. It hurts less. If it hurt more, they would be altists.
So in effect, you have a game where you can expand its width (by adding more character options) and its depth (by adding more progressional systems and content). For those that want depth, increasing the width only hurts a little. But for those that want width, a significant percentage not only want width they also *need* less depth. For them, adding depth hurts more.
I think the discussion of "grindy end game" masks a more fundamental problem that the devs perceived in the feedback they got, and is something Matt had on his mind when writing that article. A game that encourages alting does create a problem that is specific to alting in that there is a group of players you will enable that won't just advocate for more alting options but also *less* everything else. That's not true in the reverse, and its a problem that can hamper future development of a game.
Personally, I think the dev team believed this problem was mostly intractible. I tended to think it was not completely intractable: it could be significantly moderated in a way that the Incarnate system itself did not succeed at. But I think the core of the problem is actually intractable. My philosophy was "something for everyone, not everything for someone." That means when in doubt, develop in a way that gives something to each kind of playstyle. But there's one kind of playstyle that philosophy is incompatible with: the wide-completists. When you give something to everyone, you will almost certainly be adding things to the game that make it increasingly difficult to be a wide-completist. In my opinion, that's just the way it goes: if you want to be a wide completist, you need to have a lot of time to do so.
As a developer, you never want to say to a player that you're just not going to develop for them, but the truth is that you either develop for wide-completists, or everyone else, and everyone else usually wins. The only reason why CoH was compatible with wide-completists in the first place was purely coincidental: they simply didn't have enough developers to outrace most wide-competists until long after launch. But it wasn't for lack of trying.
As I said, this is oversimplifying a lot, but that's how I tended to see the overlapping player interests. I don't know if the devs saw it exactly the same way, but I do know there were many times during my discussions with a dev where they would say words to the effect of "we can't do that because" and essentially give a reason congruent to the above: that doing so would make life difficult for one segment of the player population or another. Its something they thought about a lot.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=blog.smartyhadaparty.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F08%2Fcrepes-3ingr-mr-gallery-x1.jpg)
But the thing is, as a game designer you don't have the luxury of saying, "Your way of having fun isn't as good as my way of having fun." (Despite a previous lead developer for CoH thinking exactly that...) It's Positron's job to accommodate as many playstyles, as many goals, and as many players as he can so long as they're not mutually exclusive and so long as he has the resources to do so. Incarnate content was for the people who saw starting over at level 1 as a waste of time and effort, and wanted to continue making their main character more powerful. That may not be something you saw as useful, and maybe you even think less of people who have that as a goal. (I'm sure they feel the same way about you.) But it doesn't hurt anyone to give them what they want, and it's not like we weren't getting more new powersets to try right up until the end. (Nature Affinity and Beast Mastery, for example, were really cool and innovative.) I'm really just saying that Positron was right to recognize that the game didn't include a lot of people, and to expand it to include those people. As someone who despises being railroaded into a certain playstyle, I'd think you would support that. :)
Regen was never really a weak set. Just that it's main weak point was alpha strikes, 3 bosses won't but 3 bosses, 2-5 lieutenants and a bunch of minions could if they got the attacks in at the same time.
And it depends on the enemies, some enemies are higher damage than others. Rikti imo are one of the easier groups, not discrediting ya, three bosses struggling to kill you when your using just regeneration by itself..but say a few tank swipers? I know for sure that they can hit far harder then that, I certainly had to use rebirth anytime one of those things got a hit on my fortunata.
Well yeah, but at that point SR with conventional slotting would faceplant as well. Comparatively speaking Regen was weaker there, but it wasn't an extreme weakness. Anything that could kill a regen immediately on the alpha strike would usually kill a different scrapper a few seconds later.
One thing I used to stress was that there was a difference between a theoretical weakness and a practical one. A theoretical weakness is where set A dies in this situation and set B lives. A practical weakness is where set A walks away at the end and set B dies at the end. A theoretical weakness that is not a practical weakness is where set A dies in five seconds and set B dies in ten seconds. That's a metric useful for comparison, but only in restricted analyses.
Freakshow Tank Swipers do hit harder per hit, but I don't think they dealt more damage than Chief Soldiers in melee range, at least for the purposes of this test (and against most scrappers). Two mitigating factors. First, the Rikti damage is more than half energy: all the ranged shot and about a quarter of the melee hit are energy (the rest of the melee hit is lethal). All of the tank swiper damage is smash/lethal. At the time of the video Resilience was resistance to smash/lethal/toxic, not res(all), to the tune of about 9% slotted. Second, critter AI doesn't use attacks efficiently. If the tank swiper used all of his attacks efficiently, he'd outdamage the Rikti Soldier by about 25%. Instead, because he often spams grenade more often than he should, his effective damage output tends to be closer to the Rikti Soldier in raw terms, and with the energy damage edge the Soldier probably deals about the same or more damage as the swiper against most scrappers (SR would, of course, not care).
Here is the website I was referencing to earlier
http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/
This is the computer I'm going to make xD
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/j2dcBm
No one is all one thing (at least, few are). I liked leveling my alts. I also had my power-mad days. Enjoying the end-game power pursuit grind-fest wasn't mutually exclusive from enjoying the more conventional levels of play.
...
I actually believe there were a lot of players that were generalists in that regard; willing and able to enjoy almost any mode of gameplay in the game. I even occasionally liked to PvP, just to PvP (just to get my ass kicked usually, but I did get the PvP badge with no farming so I did win at least sometimes).
I fell directly into this group--specifically the invention system/stay-in-Mids-for-the-same-amount-of-time-I-spent-in-the-game group, and it kept me around for YEARS longer than I ever stayed in any other game (with the possible exception of Diablo 2--but, the same concept applies in those types of games too...constantly striving to be "extremely powerful" by small margins--and by experimentation)... :P
I agree with you on the scrapper part there. As for the tank swiper I could certainly see power misuse on the AI's behalf as potentially slowing them down in regards to taking you down. Still possibly faster though in regards to three of them attacking a regen scrapper in those circumstances, possibly. I thought about cimerorans likewise, and honestly think it may have been overkill to bring them up. But I regularly fought them on a widow without trouble, buut that was more due to my attacks. Just letting them hit me, i'd be down in no time, even with my near-soft capped defenses.
I'm now wondering about other enemies. Enemies I knew were major threats to my main were Arachnos and Malta. Arachnos's various Tarantula Mistress's and Tarantula queens had -defense, so I know they could debuff the player to make the player more killable, they also had -recharge in the same attacks if i recall(which would have slowed dull pains recharge). Malta wouldn't I would think be better or worst at killing a defending regen scrapper than the above. But then again I am not sure how much -recharge the Tarantula Mistresses/queens had compared to a chief mentalist.
Oh man. How did I not know about this website?
And...Cuz I had a few minutes while I was eating breakfast...
In case anybody's curious...This is the computer I'm developing Revival on...
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/WdB8P6
EDIT: My keyboard is so old it doesn't even show up on the list... :(
You'd need to be seriously careful about shenanigans. Old equipment can have faults in them, and heck, may even be the reason people are trying to get rid of it is because its about to break, hasn't, but they know it will, so they put it on ebay or craigs list. At least you get a new hard drive.
Surprised that the 600 series didn't drop more in price. For 100 dollars more you can get a 970 GTX O.o
Could you fill me in on how Rift's character progression worked? You describe it like the character starts at the top or something(which would mean a sore lack of character development is allowed).
Cimerorans later beat them out I believe, and also because they tended to have a lot of hard-hitting melee attacks. But I haven't really tried to compare the two: Cims were not just dangerous because of their pure damage, they were dangerous because they possessed a lot of defense debuffs which tended to nullify a lot of the protection melee characters (and others) had gotten used to having (as well as stacking buffs that made them tricky to engage in large numbers).
So in effect, you have a game where you can expand its width (by adding more character options) and its depth (by adding more progressional systems and content). For those that want depth, increasing the width only hurts a little. But for those that want width, a significant percentage not only want width they also *need* less depth. For them, adding depth hurts more.
Hehehe, my main was constantly being re-imagined, but eventually settled on Regen.
I squealed like a little girl when I found out Regen got ported to Brutes :D
Energy Melle // Regen // Energy Mastery
All attacks except Total Focus and Energy Transfer was slotted for Stun.
Everything else was slotted for recharge. 3 end procs + 3 end IOs had me at stupid end/sec so I didn't bother slotting much for that either :P
I had pretty much no defenses, but enough recharge that with Spiritual, my Dull pain was on 12 sec overlap i seem to recall.
This meant that I had days when I would die repeatedly just versus trash mobs ( 2+sec activation ftw!! )
However, I had days where I just seemed Immortal. I even managed to nearly perma-stun Noctis pre-Incarnates 8)
( proceded to get mushed by mobs cause the team was all 'lol you wanted to solo, gl :P )
If I got a say in additions or modifications to the game?
Regen 4 Tankers
That is all.
Edit: spilling
I liked leveling my alts. I also had my power-mad days. Enjoying the end-game power pursuit grind-fest wasn't mutually exclusive from enjoying the more conventional levels of play.
On the day they announced shutdown, my lowest active alt (meaning, an alt I was playing several times a week minimum) was in the teens (a water blaster) and my highest was my main that was running tons of incarnate trials, already had multiple tier 4s in every incarnate slot, and was still trying to make more Lore pets.
I actually believe there were a lot of players that were generalists in that regard; willing and able to enjoy almost any mode of gameplay in the game.
I think the worst enemies anyone could make in the AE though, were storm summoners.
You might get a kick out of this: I call it "selling out to regen"
/snip
Its looney tunes, but might have been a blast to play.
Could you fill me in on how Rift's character progression worked? You describe it like the character starts at the top or something(which would mean a sore lack of character development is allowed).
Ah, I see what you did there.. shame it breaks my 1 cardinal rule.. NEVAH TAKE HASTEN!!
You didn't explore the evil side of the AE deeply enough. I spent a lot of time looking at the custom critter system and tested a lot of combos. Its hard to say what the worst possible combination was, but there were a lot of hidden nasties in there for people to run into that make storm summoning look like a squib.
Consider: Mind Control/Dark Armor. Its a ranged mezzer with confuse. Few non-melee can handle that very well. As for the melee? Dark Armor has Soul Transfer as a rez. Do you have mag 30 stun protection? How about mag 60 if you accidentally kill two a the same time? How about mag 90? And that's only after you get past a bunch of overlapping PBAoE toggles.
I had a list of combos to avoid when making real missions, and this was very high on the list. Its just too evil.
Along the lines of storm summoning, a combo that only scored 9.8 on the evil-o-meter that was similar but nastier was Earth Control/Cold Domination. Two autohitting patches - quicksand and earthquake - plus a rain, plus two really awful debuffs (benumb, heat loss).
My worst was testing a mission where minions were darkness manipulators, my ToHit was floored at -300 and the army of fluffies tore me apart in almost no time while I kept swinging at thin air.
Pretty much this. I had a stable of 50's that I was dabbling in the incarnate trials and I also had a group of toons ranging from teens to high 40s. I'd log in a new toon every day and mess around. Maybe I'd run a Terra Volta and respec, maybe try my luck in a PvP zone, maybe work on alignment swapping, maybe try out a randome AE, maybe mess around with internal Build 1 & 2, maybe I'd badge hunt, maybe I'd run an Oroborous mission, maybe a TF if I had time, maybe a few scanner missions or even (gasp) story content. Maybe I'd solo, maybe I'd team. Maybe I'd just sit back and talk on the global channels.
There was no right way to play the game, and the options were awesome.
My only concern was that it seemed like the incarnate trials were starting to pull the veterans away from L1-L50 content and into the post-50s, to the detriment of the younger section of community.
You didn't explore the evil side of the AE deeply enough. I spent a lot of time looking at the custom critter system and tested a lot of combos. Its hard to say what the worst possible combination was, but there were a lot of hidden nasties in there for people to run into that make storm summoning look like a squib.
Consider: Mind Control/Dark Armor. Its a ranged mezzer with confuse. Few non-melee can handle that very well. As for the melee? Dark Armor has Soul Transfer as a rez. Do you have mag 30 stun protection? How about mag 60 if you accidentally kill two a the same time? How about mag 90? And that's only after you get past a bunch of overlapping PBAoE toggles.
I had a list of combos to avoid when making real missions, and this was very high on the list. Its just too evil.
Along the lines of storm summoning, a combo that only scored 9.8 on the evil-o-meter that was similar but nastier was Earth Control/Cold Domination. Two autohitting patches - quicksand and earthquake - plus a rain, plus two really awful debuffs (benumb, heat loss).
That sucked and getting hammered by a group of praetorian clockwork nuked my dark regeneration recharge, if you can't kill me in 11 sec... 20 sec... three minutes, you can't kill me. Oh wait, you can.
Felix
It didn't take an excessive amount of grinding to get a character to the +3 incarnate shift in the incarnate trials though.
I can appreciate that he has a vision and that it's important to have one, but if I don't like the vision, I'm not sure where that leaves me.Living in the real world I suppose.
Not Pancakes
That's arguable. For a casual player like me, it became too much. Because I'm more of what Arcana calls a "deep completionist" I wanted to have my "main" get to the top tier of power levels. That was just impractical with the playing time I had, and even if I had had lots of time, I don't think I would have enjoyed playing the same limited set of Incarnate Trials ad infinitum. I left around Issue 20 because of that.
Even though I had a single "main", I did have many alts. And while I long ago had given up on all of them being "complete", it would have been nice to have more than one Incarnate level character. I ended up with 2 at +1 or something like that, but it was just too monotonous for me.
Like I said before, the "Posi hates alts" was a bit of hyperbole on my part a few hundred posts ago. But all the same, reading through his blog, I really get the very distinct feeling that his philosophy and the way I wanted / liked to play were at odds, so it might not be a coincidence I left when I did - I don't know the exact timeline of his becoming boss, but it seems reasonable in my head that the grand plan he had in mind was taking effect at the time I left.
Living in the real world I suppose.
To be fair, I started playing CoH the summer before college, so most of the time I played it I was not living in the real world.
But those are crepes!
My worst was testing a mission where minions were darkness manipulators, my ToHit was floored at -300 and the army of fluffies tore me apart in almost no time while I kept swinging at thin air.
True story: when the AE was first being tested, "custom critters" were not really customizable to the degree they eventually became - I had a bit of a hand in trying/forcing/begging/ramming the notion that they ought to be. One reason was that originally, all custom critters basically had every power from both sets, which meant that in a sense, all custom critters were set to "extreme."
This became interesting when you made your minions custom critters, and the very first thing that happened when the player stepped into the room was that every single ranged critter simultaneously fired off *AIM* and then obliterated you through your defenses from long range.
But the most awesome example of needing to tone down powers was gang war. Imagine a room full of minions. Now imagine every single one of them possesses gang war. Now imagine all of them wants to spam it immediately upon you entering the room. Instant mosh pit, just add player. Missions could get literally wall to wall with gang war members standing on the heads of other gang war members because there was literally nowhere else for them to stand.
Like I said before, the "Posi hates alts" was a bit of hyperbole on my part a few hundred posts ago. But all the same, reading through his blog, I really get the very distinct feeling that his philosophy and the way I wanted / liked to play were at odds, so it might not be a coincidence I left when I did - I don't know the exact timeline of his becoming boss, but it seems reasonable in my head that the grand plan he had in mind was taking effect at the time I left.
True story: when the AE was first being tested, "custom critters" were not really customizable to the degree they eventually became - I had a bit of a hand in trying/forcing/begging/ramming the notion that they ought to be. One reason was that originally, all custom critters basically had every power from both sets, which meant that in a sense, all custom critters were set to "extreme."
This became interesting when you made your minions custom critters, and the very first thing that happened when the player stepped into the room was that every single ranged critter simultaneously fired off *AIM* and then obliterated you through your defenses from long range.
But the most awesome example of needing to tone down powers was gang war. Imagine a room full of minions. Now imagine every single one of them possesses gang war. Now imagine all of them wants to spam it immediately upon you entering the room. Instant mosh pit, just add player. Missions could get literally wall to wall with gang war members standing on the heads of other gang war members because there was literally nowhere else for them to stand.
You didn't explore the evil side of the AE deeply enough. I spent a lot of time looking at the custom critter system and tested a lot of combos. Its hard to say what the worst possible combination was, but there were a lot of hidden nasties in there for people to run into that make storm summoning look like a squib.
Consider: Mind Control/Dark Armor. Its a ranged mezzer with confuse. Few non-melee can handle that very well. As for the melee? Dark Armor has Soul Transfer as a rez. Do you have mag 30 stun protection? How about mag 60 if you accidentally kill two a the same time? How about mag 90? And that's only after you get past a bunch of overlapping PBAoE toggles.
I had a list of combos to avoid when making real missions, and this was very high on the list. Its just too evil.
Along the lines of storm summoning, a combo that only scored 9.8 on the evil-o-meter that was similar but nastier was Earth Control/Cold Domination. Two autohitting patches - quicksand and earthquake - plus a rain, plus two really awful debuffs (benumb, heat loss).
Pretty much this. I had a stable of 50's that I was dabbling in the incarnate trials and I also had a group of toons ranging from teens to high 40s. I'd log in a new toon every day and mess around. Maybe I'd run a Terra Volta and respec, maybe try my luck in a PvP zone, maybe work on alignment swapping, maybe try out a randome AE, maybe mess around with internal Build 1 & 2, maybe I'd badge hunt, maybe I'd run an Oroborous mission, maybe a TF if I had time, maybe a few scanner missions or even (gasp) story content. Maybe I'd solo, maybe I'd team. Maybe I'd just sit back and talk on the global channels.
There was no right way to play the game, and the options were awesome.
My only concern was that it seemed like the incarnate trials were starting to pull the veterans away from L1-L50 content and into the post-50s, to the detriment of the younger section of community.
Its hard to reconcile the guy that says if a dev has a good idea that conflicts with prior plans you should usually go for it with the idea that he was simultaneously trying to shove his own personal gameplay preferences onto everyone else.
I understand that everyone here has a hard time wrapping their heads around that, myself included. But we are a self-selected audience of people who wanted what CoH was selling. The larger world of "MMO players" wanted endgame content, and Positron recognized that and gave it to them. I don't think he was mistaken, either in recognizing that deficiency in the game or in working to fix it. If anything, I think he was about twenty issues too late.
But the most awesome example of needing to tone down powers was gang war. Imagine a room full of minions. Now imagine every single one of them possesses gang war. Now imagine all of them wants to spam it immediately upon you entering the room. Instant mosh pit, just add player. Missions could get literally wall to wall with gang war members standing on the heads of other gang war members because there was literally nowhere else for them to stand.
Any mastermind in an ambush; the mobs instantly bring out the henchmen.
The ugly truth is that endgame, whether in CoX or WoW or wherever, is a Haven for those dwelling in the realm of Ego. Biggest, Baddest, Best. Pfffft. Whatever.
Basically, on Rift you have 4 classes, Rogue, mage, Cleric and Warrior. By default, on every class you can have 4 diferent builds and you can swap between builds whenever you wish. For each of said builds, you can use a combination of 3 different talent trees (talent trees are called "souls" in the game) and every class has DPS souls, healing souls, support souls and tanking souls hence you can build, let's say a rogue with a melee dps build, a ranged dps build, a healer build and a tanking build, that's many people you don't need alts in Rift.
Also, you can purchase more builds (I think it is a total of 6 builds) so you could add to your rogue, let's say a PvP build and a melee DPS hiding build (like a stalker) besides all the abovementioned builds.
Also, character progression was exactly the same so it was exactly same content for every alt you were willing to roll hence not really much point in making alts. Having said that, I personally used to have alts for many reasons, first would be playstyle because it is way different tanking with a rogue than with a cleric, or dealing ranged dps with a warrior (yes, warriors had ranged dps souls) than with a mage. Another reason I had alts for was crafting, although I could purchase extra crafting slots so 1 character could have all crafting skills, I preferred doing it for free. Besides, of course, not all souls were available on F2P mode so, instead of purchasing a healing soul for my warrior or my rogue, I preferred to roll a cleric when I could be bothered to do the exactly same content.
Some people mentioned that alting was a complete waste of time because, besides having to go through same content over and over again, you also had to take into consideration all the endgame raiding you had to do if you wanted to gear up 2, 3 or 4 alts however, I always found that argument a bit silly since it was probably petty much same time you would spend raiding to gear up the same character for 2 or 3 different roles. Of course, if you wanted 4 walts fullye geared up for every possible role, well, that was a totally different scenario akin to what Arcana defined as wide-completionists.
In fact, ironically my biggest gripe with Matt is that he didn't always reign in other devs like I think a lead ought to, particularly in terms of storylines. While others are faulting Matt for the implied sins he never admitted to, one thing he did admit to was believing that prior canon and established backstory should not be considered absolute relative to allowing developers to create what he and they perceived to be good ideas.
In my opinion, that's what we saw in this article. Posi had his opinion and, given free reign and ultimate time, he would have liked to change things quite a bit. That's not "bad" or "wrong", so we don't need to pretend he wasn't making that desire clear in the article. It was his opinion and desires shared while reflecting on it months after the shutdown, just as some players' responses were the same thing: opinions and desires about what would have made CoH a better game.
I think, had at least a few of the ITrials really been TFs, but offer full rewards like other trials, you may have found the perfect balance. Heck, I always wished they'd included some incarnate content that was gated at -4- players max, and balanced around being really tough on a smaller team, but with nice rewards. Something to say that now that we're so big and powerful, they're going to really challenge us as individual heroes. It would also have prevented those people who can easily sit back and leech in an over sized raid team. Feel like a raid, instead of the smaller challenge? That's cool, run a Baf. Have a five friends from your SG on, but don't have time/desire to find 10 other players to do a BaF? That's cool, just run a Lambda or TPN with the six of you.
I'm not sure it is hard to reconcile the two. Really, what you could argue is that he was doing with the prior continuity and story lines what he wanted to do to altitis: saying "I have a better idea, and I'm going to try to make it happen whether it really fits the current game or not."
Now, to borrow a phrase from Obama, let me be clear: I loved Posi as a Dev. I even tried Star Trek Online just because he's running it now, and I find Star Trek REALLY boring. I think CoH was excellent, usually, in listening to their players' feedback and desires. That doesn't mean that Posi didn't have his OWN desires, and that those desires were at odds, sometimes, with the community. That's just the nature of design, especially in the technical realm. But just because he's a smart enough businessman and politician to listen to his customers demands when they're passionate enough, it doesn't mean he didn't have very serious feelings of his own and a desire to take the game in a different direction.
To bring it full circle, maybe Posi is like Microsoft, and maybe his vision of curbing alts was similar to Window's vision of Windows 8 being a single user interface for all devices. Sounds good on paper, may even work, may even be necessary for the continued success of the system, but the shock and bother the idea causes to the customer base might force some careful treading or even a retreat.
In my opinion, that's what we saw in this article. Posi had his opinion and, given free reign and ultimate time, he would have liked to change things quite a bit. That's not "bad" or "wrong", so we don't need to pretend he wasn't making that desire clear in the article. It was his opinion and desires shared while reflecting on it months after the shutdown, just as some players' responses were the same thing: opinions and desires about what would have made CoH a better game.
Personally, I liked the end game Incarnate Stuff, overall. My only real problem with it was the focus on RAIDS over almost everything else early on. I always felt like CoH worked best, for me at least, because of the 5-8 man team sizes. I'd have REALLY liked some of the iTrials more if they had been Task Forces, not large scale raids. I think the Lambda is the best example of this, followed closely by TPN and Minds of Mayhem. These really could have been set to run from 6-8 members total with the difficulty of the enemies scaled down slightly to compensate for the smaller teams and I think it would have been "better". First, I think it would have "felt" more super going against some of these foes in smaller teams. Somehow, piling on to 1 guy with 22 other heroes and still taking 10 minutes to take him down doesn't seem impressive. Secondly, these could have been run more often/casually, even on smaller servers. The problem I had was that the only two Task Forces the Incarnate content gave us gave out drastically weaker rewards than the actual Trials, even though, in my opinion, they weren't much different in difficulty. To me, the way the system was laid out, it really was trying to get everyone in on the "Raids," but due to customer resistance, tossed a few bones out to people who refused. It's kind of like Windows 10 keeping the metro interface but giving back the start button, with a built in metro interface. :-)
I think, had at least a few of the ITrials really been TFs, but offer full rewards like other trials, you may have found the perfect balance. Heck, I always wished they'd included some incarnate content that was gated at -4- players max, and balanced around being really tough on a smaller team, but with nice rewards. Something to say that now that we're so big and powerful, they're going to really challenge us as individual heroes. It would also have prevented those people who can easily sit back and leech in an over sized raid team. Feel like a raid, instead of the smaller challenge? That's cool, run a Baf. Have a five friends from your SG on, but don't have time/desire to find 10 other players to do a BaF? That's cool, just run a Lambda or TPN with the six of you.
All that being said, I REALLY wish we would have been around long enough to see this come to fruition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9dVlNA1SMM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9dVlNA1SMM)
My experience...and pleasure from the game... vastly differs from yours. Aside from some forumites who did not constitute a good balance of the playerbase imo... I NEVER met anyone who did not like doing the itrials. i am a Freedomite...so maybe that is why, but when itrials came to be... the server actually benefited from them. Freedom became a more social server after the itrials.... Pocket D was a wasteland pre itrial... but soon became a VERY busy social hub for the trials and game in general. If it weren't for incarnates I would have probably let my account lapse...after being subbed since Issue 3 continuously. The incarnate content kept me playing and subbed...plain and simple.
You want to know which zone was dead on Freedom... New Dark Astoria. Freedom was always a big "Raid-centric" server with multiple Hamis running each day... and MSR happening numerous times throughout a day. So while I appreciate some people wanted smaller teams etc etc... the entire game was already centered around that...so I rejoiced when the "end-game" finally got more "raids." I always wanted more "raids" through the leveling experience (And no not the zone events). CoH is the only MMO I have ever played and the larger scale trials/raids made me feel like a part of a huge super team fighting to save the world....
I'm having trouble thinking of a set that doesn't end up being broken when you give the full thing to an x8 spawn worth of minions.
I made several custom characters specifically for different uses as a demonstration that mezzing was NEVER necessary to balance the game. I added resistance to all of the bad guys. I then varied the weapons the assorted evil doers used to absolutely stop herding. I added 2 broadsword/katana users to each group and using this model with only at most one debuffing character per group - it made every group exciting and a challenge - I recall having people run it and warning them this is NOT a farm - proceed with caution and seeing them faceplant immediately.
It was not overly hard just an exercise in balance.
I'm not sure it is hard to reconcile the two. Really, what you could argue is that he was doing with the prior continuity and story lines what he wanted to do to altitis: saying "I have a better idea, and I'm going to try to make it happen whether it really fits the current game or not."
Now make a few plant control critters and put them on the opposing team.
Hmm... I'm not sure how the leeway he gave writers is the same as the leeway he may have given game system devs - especially since he was a lead designer on the I Trials himself.
You could say that, except that's the exact opposite of what I said. I didn't say Matt felt he had a better idea than prior continuity allowed and was willing to make it happen whether it fit the game or not, I said Matt allowed other devs to override prior continuity even if he felt it didn't quite fit naturally. That is literally the opposite mindset.
My experience...and pleasure from the game... vastly differs from yours. Aside from some forumites who did not constitute a good balance of the playerbase imo... I NEVER met anyone who did not like doing the itrials. i am a Freedomite...so maybe that is why, but when itrials came to be... the server actually benefited from them. Freedom became a more social server after the itrials.... Pocket D was a wasteland pre itrial... but soon became a VERY busy social hub for the trials and game in general. If it weren't for incarnates I would have probably let my account lapse...after being subbed since Issue 3 continuously. The incarnate content kept me playing and subbed...plain and simple.
You want to know which zone was dead on Freedom... New Dark Astoria. Freedom was always a big "Raid-centric" server with multiple Hamis running each day... and MSR happening numerous times throughout a day. So while I appreciate some people wanted smaller teams etc etc... the entire game was already centered around that...so I rejoiced when the "end-game" finally got more "raids." I always wanted more "raids" through the leveling experience (And no not the zone events). CoH is the only MMO I have ever played and the larger scale trials/raids made me feel like a part of a huge super team fighting to save the world....
You want to know which zone was dead on Freedom... New Dark Astoria. Freedom was always a big "Raid-centric" server with multiple Hamis running each day... and MSR happening numerous times throughout a day. So while I appreciate some people wanted smaller teams etc etc... the entire game was already centered around that...so I rejoiced when the "end-game" finally got more "raids." I always wanted more "raids" through the leveling experience (And no not the zone events). CoH is the only MMO I have ever played and the larger scale trials/raids made me feel like a part of a huge super team fighting to save the world....
That's weird. I was on the VIP server (Exalted?) and Dark Astoria was the hub for iTrials. Everyone met there because if you were waiting on a trial, there was stuff to kill and missions to run in the meanwhile. I could always log in and find some 10-20 people hanging out by the hospital getting something going.
I, and some of those I teamed with dispised the I trials. I found that now that I am more powerful than ever - I am now lumped into a huge mass of mob mentality.
...
This is what Incarnates were to me - a chance to show that my skill and perseverence made me unique in the universe and instead I was generic hero number 25 on the League. I did 2 of these back to back on one of my most powerful characters. The first run I used all my powers - attacked, debuffed and buffed the full reach of my skills. The second run I did NOTHING. I sat back stayed out of the way and you know what? It took the same amount of time. I made little to no difference.
I wanted the "end game" to show that my universe shattering power - made a DIFFERENCE. The idea that I am just another cog in a machine soured me off of these instantly.
I, and some of those I teamed with dispised the I trials. I found that now that I am more powerful than ever - I am now lumped into a huge mass of mob mentality. I am spamming powers without seeing any result other than a health bar on a huge being slowly dropping. My best powers are nothing alone and singly I would be wiped out - yet somehow I am supposed to be an Incarnate being - one of galactic powers.
In a TF my contribution can be huge. It is a measurable quantity. Whether we are mowing down Romans, Battling Villians in the States TF or any other of the 8 man missions - I personally can be seen exerting my powers. I am not a spam cloud of special effects rivaling a Hollywood blockbuster. There is satisfaction in skill and knowledge. I recall doing an all Corruptor ITF and after we waltzed through the entire thing without a death getting the Master of ITF badge for some who had never had it - a newer player who had only played WoW was saying I can't believe we are doing this! I pulled both AV's and the Computer at once on that mission and we sailed through it.
This is what Incarnates were to me - a chance to show that my skill and perseverence made me unique in the universe and instead I was generic hero number 25 on the League. I did 2 of these back to back on one of my most powerful characters. The first run I used all my powers - attacked, debuffed and buffed the full reach of my skills. The second run I did NOTHING. I sat back stayed out of the way and you know what? It took the same amount of time. I made little to no difference.
I wanted the "end game" to show that my universe shattering power - made a DIFFERENCE. The idea that I am just another cog in a machine soured me off of these instantly.
I can't say for certain, but what I can say is that whenever I was informally working with one of the devs on a problem or such it was rare for a dev to imply that a change was going to be rejected by Positron himself. It was far more likely I'd be told something wouldn't get past a more general internal review. Part of the problem I think is that none of the devs could consistently keep it all in their heads enough *to* micromanage very much, because there was just so many things going on (keep in mind that Statesman had no idea whatsoever how Defiance worked when he wrote the guide to Defiance. I had to correct him by actually testing the power and demonstrating it did not work the way he actually documented it to work).
But from the outside looking in, the management style at Paragon seemed to be that the higher-ups decided general high level things and then left it up to the other devs to sort out the details, and when time permitted the devs were allowed significant latitude to pursue other projects of their own interest. For example power customization came about partially because BaB began investigating it himself first.
Not saying higher ups didn't override devs lower on the totem pole: I'm sure that happened occasionally. I just didn't see that as a pervasive issue at Paragon. The people that actually worked there could have a different opinion.
Did said writers usually run things by Matt before making these changes? Was Matt usually involved collaboratively in the writing process and direction of the game? My experience leads me to the assumption it was, in many ways, a collaborative process, and one in which Matt would have occassional input. In other words, when someone in the process came up with a storyline that may not fit neatly into the existing game lore or concepts, but was seen by Matt and the rest as "a good direction" for the game to go, then they went, concerns be damned, so to speak. To me, that is exactly the same mindset I see at play in the article, and would get the two seemingly different mindsets you mentioned to mesh well. In essence, they are both a subset of a larger mindset of "I'm not the kind of person who is beholden much to the status quo or who is scared to upset the apple cart if I think it's a good direction." Nothing of that mindset requires the idea to be of his origin.
That's awesome!
That is exactly why I was hoping at some point for them to include smaller teamed special Incarnate Trials. If they were set up similar to the Summer Blockbuster event where you were robbing a Casino it would have been PERFECT.
Imagine TPN being rewritten in a way where you and three others are teleported into the heart of Imperial City, clearing your way into the buildings together. Once inside, however, you each must split up to accomplish four different tasks in order to make the broadcast reach all of Preatoria: one must disable the current security systems, one must prevent the power to the station being shut down, one must upload the new broadcast, and one must reprogram the Clockwork in the building to protect the broadcast once you leave. Each of you face serious threats along the way, but each of you feels like you're contributing as epic individuals. Then you go to the next station and do the same thing. In the end, as a team, you confront Maelstrom and three other high ranking officials. You would feel "incarnate" in that kind of mission, and it would be just as difficult as a raid sized iTrial.
I, and some of those I teamed with dispised the I trials. I found that now that I am more powerful than ever - I am now lumped into a huge mass of mob mentality. I am spamming powers without seeing any result other than a health bar on a huge being slowly dropping. My best powers are nothing alone and singly I would be wiped out - yet somehow I am supposed to be an Incarnate being - one of galactic powers.
That is exactly why I was hoping at some point for them to include smaller teamed special Incarnate Trials. If they were set up similar to the Summer Blockbuster event where you were robbing a Casino it would have been PERFECT.
Imagine TPN being rewritten in a way where you and three others are teleported into the heart of Imperial City, clearing your way into the buildings together. Once inside, however, you each must split up to accomplish four different tasks in order to make the broadcast reach all of Preatoria: one must disable the current security systems, one must prevent the power to the station being shut down, one must upload the new broadcast, and one must reprogram the Clockwork in the building to protect the broadcast once you leave. Each of you face serious threats along the way, but each of you feels like you're contributing as epic individuals. Then you go to the next station and do the same thing. In the end, as a team, you confront Maelstrom and three other high ranking officials. You would feel "incarnate" in that kind of mission, and it would be just as difficult as a raid sized iTrial.
The possibilities for "end game content" are...well...endless, if you're creative. The key is to not make players feel like their way is "second class" which the new DA, the incarnate TFs, and the "solo path" seemed to do to some with the seriously gimped rewards they offered.
After rushing in for names, I never used the exalted server. I just couldn't drag myself from Infinity (even with a number of transfers still in my pocket).
Or perhaps it's for those that enjoy harder enemies, getting stronger characters and like large scale team content? Not everyone is under the stereotype you mentioned....
That's like saying all blacks like watermelon, chicken and sag their pants... neither are true.
Maybe you just played on unfriendly servers because I never ran into the behaviors you speak of in either game. The occasional rude group but that occurs in normal content too. Now I have run into many rude people on forums but for every rude person you meet many more friendly people.
Now make a few plant control critters and put them on the opposing team.Army of Me on my Plant Dom was a NIGHTMARE.
Or perhaps it's for those that enjoy harder enemies, getting stronger characters and like large scale team content? Not everyone is under the stereotype you mentioned....
That's like saying all blacks like watermelon, chicken and sag their pants... neither are true.
Maybe you just played on unfriendly servers because I never ran into the behaviors you speak of in either game. The occasional rude group but that occurs in normal content too. Now I have run into many rude people on forums but for every rude person you meet many more friendly people.
Quote from: ArchPilgrimThe ugly truth is that endgame, whether in CoX or WoW or wherever, is a Haven for those dwelling in the realm of Ego. Biggest, Baddest, Best.Or perhaps it's for those that enjoy harder enemies, getting stronger characters and like large scale team content?
I have to chime in here about the I-trials/incarnate powers. I believe they are the single most ingenious update/expansion ever done in an MMO. I thought it was a perfect mix of additional powers and abilities, adding fun to the game without adversely affecting balance TOO much. It is not easy adding a new "system" to work within an existing one--AT ALL. And I, for one, loved the content as well. My 2 cents--take it or leave it punks...
I was just wondering about the purchase of the CoH IP ... if successful. Does the City of Titans project become COH2, or do theyCoT has always been, and will always be, a spiritual successor, not a sequel. It has always been a separate game.
become two separate games?
I'd prefer to keep the existing villain groups and lore, but CoT appears to be going down its own path.
I completely agree about the use of "additional powers." Incarnate powers made your characters feel even more godlike than they were with just IOs, but gating them behind certain content, etc. prevented it from completely destroying the rest of the game. I actually thought that, had they worked an explanation in to the story a little more (say, something like "the Well will empower its guardians as their will and desire cry out for it the most") it would even have been perfect, thematically. The idea that we don't always have access to our deepest powers from the well simply because we either aren't actually serving as a guardian of the well at that moment or our will and desire aren't "desperate" enough to dig that deeply. They started to hint at the costs of digging into the Well, and had that been explored more, that could also have served as a decent explanation for why we don't always access those advanced Incarnate powers.
But the implementation was great. We had new things to give to our characters, with variety enough to still make them unique among the rest, but not in a way that completely wrecked enjoyment in the rest of the game.
And it wasn't gear.
I hate "gear."
Especially in an MMO where my character's powers often come from within themselves, not because they found armor made of Uru forged by the Dwarf king and enchanted by yada yada yada.
Please don't ever make me grind for gear.
Please.
If there's a distinction between "harder enemies, getting stronger characters" and "Biggest, Baddest, Best", I think I missed it.
The idea that I am just another cog in a machine soured me off of these instantly.
That explains why when I ran iTrials I kept hearing that song from the Karate Kid in my head.
Yeah, the gear in other mmos felt like a burden rather than an upgrade.
I dislike gear, especially in a supers mmo.
My thoughts about ever increasing level and gear numbers, is its a carrot on a stick. So lets say one gets to level 70, and then gets the top gear whats the purpose in playing if it was all raids? Well, there isn't any at this point as you've done everything you could to get there. So the developer, rather than adding stuff at that level 70, increases the cap to 80. Then they increase the damage/armor ratings ect by a fold of 10 or so and then say new and improved. But it's not, just higher numbers so people can increase the ego they have "Oh i got higher numbers I'm bigger better more powerful NOW HAHAHA" when in reality, they are still the same. Even more laughable when the enemies level up with them(lookin at you, diablo 3 and reaper of souls).
(and not sayin D3 is a bad game these days but I did feel the number differences between a 60 and 70 was kind of pointless)
I think at some point, though, this gets philosophical. All games have their carrots to get you to progress; let's face it, there's no technical reason why you can't turn off XP right away and fight bad guys in Atlas Park as a level 1. Every complaint about "bigger, better, more powerful" and "enemies level up with you" can be applied in microcosm for the journey to level 2.
I agree with you, after a while the ever-increasing cap becomes a bit transparently hamster-wheel-esque (especially with WoW, where they make a special effort to make the old gear easier to obtain so people can get to the new endgame content quickly, so the items you sweated bullets to get a year ago are now dispensed for free in crackerjack boxes), but I don't think that one should be against advancement in principle. Because some people enjoy that. I mean, I'm not a majorly grindy person, but I was horrified to find out that in 5th edition D&D, I'd still have problems with goblins at level 10. What's the fun in leveling up if you don't get to roflstomp the things that used to terrify you, dangit? :)
CoT has always been, and will always be, a spiritual successor, not a sequel. It has always been a separate game.
Ok, so we're having the same company maintaining the true successor to CoH and the "spiritual" successor... does anyone elseBecause it's not true. Nate/downix was involved with getting the negotiations started, but will not be a part of the holding company that would be formed to manage the IP. In any event Nate became involved with the latest negotiations as an individual. Missing Worlds Media does not and never has had anything to do with the current team looking to buy the game other than Nate being involved with both. Again, Nate helped get the ball rolling, but at no time has MWM itself been a part of the efforts.
see a conflict of interest here. I'd hate to see COH2 go into slow maintenance mode while CoT gets the lions share of development time.
Ok, so we're having the same company maintaining the true successor to CoH and the "spiritual" successor... does anyone else
see a conflict of interest here. I'd hate to see COH2 go into slow maintenance mode while CoT gets the lions share of development time.
Ok, so we're having the same company maintaining the true successor to CoH and the "spiritual" successor... does anyone else
see a conflict of interest here. I'd hate to see COH2 go into slow maintenance mode while CoT gets the lions share of development time.
Since MWM is handling the negotiation/arrangements, I was assuming this licensing company would be a subsidiary. If not, my misunderstanding.
I wasn't aware APR was a completely separate entity. But since they said they were using a "CoT build", I assumed a closer relationship.
And no, I haven't read all 1000 pages of both threads, nor do I intend to. I appreciate the prior two comments, which helped much. This sardonic response, not so much.
Since MWM is handling the negotiation/arrangements, I was assuming this licensing company would be a subsidiary. If not, my misunderstanding.
And no, I haven't read all 1000 pages of both threads, nor do I intend to. I appreciate the prior two comments, which helped much. This sardonic response, not so much.
I also think the devs partially oversold incarnate abilities, although that wasn't entirely their fault. Most of what players expected story-wise and power-wise out of incarnate abilities were rumors driven by players passing on made-up information. Incarnates were never supposed to be "cosmicly powered beings" like Galactus or even the Silver Surfer, say. They were supposed to be sort of the next step up in evolution, but not the last step. Keep in mind that the down-the-road enemies for us were going to be (among other options) the True Rikti, which on the fictional power scale were probably like a cross between the Wraith (physically) and the Asguardians (technologically) in Stargate SG-1. Not omnipotent beings per se.
Increasing the Level cap and whatnot, and even increasin a power level is fine, but cannot be the only thing one can do, I feel. Making a good game takes more than just level cap increasing. New features and new maps/stories and whatnot matter a lot. Doom 2 wouldn't for example be quite the game it is today if for example the double barrel shotgun wasn't added and new engine features weren't added to it(remember ultimate doom was enhanced by doom 2's engine). Just setting a map and then increasing the level cap and upping the numbers is very little by itself.
I notice this in that, mmorpg developers are often, because they focus TO much on level and ever increasing gear/level is many of them become one trick ponies. Their methods wouldn't work in other genres, and heck, proven to not work. An example is the original developer of Diablo 3, Jay Wilson, was before that a guy who contributed to WoW. He used the very methods that worked for WoW on diablo 3 and caused it to be compared to other blizzard titles a total disaster, in that it was an EXTREME grind fest with gear being the be-all-end all. He probably wasn't sololy to blame, but the guy who made diablo 1 certainly felt that diablo 3 wasn't a game he'd have made or would have made it differently. That, and Jay's response, lead to Jay resigning from Diablo 3 to move onto other projects...
...Diablo 3 improved many fold since he left in ways that actually made it a good game that wasn't so ludicrously grindy(still a grind but no where near as bad or fake difficulty ridden).
Edit: Course, not all mmorpg developers are that way, paragon studios certainly wasn't a one trick pony, quite the opposite.
Another Edit: Heres a link about the guy. http://www.diablowiki.net/Jay_Wilson
Edit: corrected some things.
Ok, so we're having the same company maintaining the true successor to CoH and the "spiritual" successor... does anyone else
see a conflict of interest here. I'd hate to see COH2 go into slow maintenance mode while CoT gets the lions share of development time.
And also...I'd hate to see our conversation about how under powered blasters were in the incarnate trials due to altitis making voice overs too expensive get sidelined. :-P
I think part of your confusion is from the fact that there actually are no plans for a "CoH 2." There will be CoH and then the successors. For the time being, CoH will be just issue 23 running in maintenance mode. Eventually, "CoH" will be migrated to the Unreal Engine by Atlas Park Revival, where it will likely get new updates, etc. but will still be, in all ways possible, CoH as we knew and loved it. The truth is, however, with Atlas Park Revival being a VERY small group effort (one person at this point) it may very well be that City of Titans ends up released before City of Heroes is fully rebuilt in Unreal. We just don't know.
The closest you'll get to a CoH 2 will be the successors like City of Titans. These will be new games, in new worlds, with new features and mechanics, but inspired by City of Heroes. And in time, for those who wish to stick with the "old game", they will be able to see it continued on in the Unreal version created by Atlas Park Revival.
I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?
I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?
I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?
I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?
I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?
I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?
A company actively producing a product and the volunteer effort, while greatly appreciated, is behind us. I think you guys are fantastic but I want a studio producing the product with engaging content and timely updates.
I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?
I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?
I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?
I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?
I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?
I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?
Then I'd call the entire project -- City of Heroes: Revival (or possibly City of Heroes: Forever)
Same universe and similar mechanics, but a completely different starting point and all new content.
This is probably why APR has been dubbed CoX 1.5; you'll have a different engine and slightly different mechanics, but everything else (i.e. costumes, powers, stories, main characters, zones, etc.) will be the same, or as close to the same as possible.
At least in the beginning. ;) I think the reason I loved the original so much is because it didn't need a 2.0...the game kept expanding and giving us new content with each new issue, so a sequel was unnecessary. Most of the CoH 2 yearning I read on the old boards had more to do with wanting new engine (graphics, physics, or whatever) capabilities rather than wanting a whole new game.
And that's what you'll be giving us if the NCSoft deal goes through. That, and hopefully the reality of being able to play indefinitely...
I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?
I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?
Personally, I liked the end game Incarnate Stuff, overall. My only real problem with it was the focus on RAIDS over almost everything else early on. I always felt like CoH worked best, for me at least, because of the 5-8 man team sizes. I'd have REALLY liked some of the iTrials more if they had been Task Forces, not large scale raids. I think the Lambda is the best example of this, followed closely by TPN and Minds of Mayhem. These really could have been set to run from 6-8 members total with the difficulty of the enemies scaled down slightly to compensate for the smaller teams and I think it would have been "better". First, I think it would have "felt" more super going against some of these foes in smaller teams. Somehow, piling on to 1 guy with 22 other heroes and still taking 10 minutes to take him down doesn't seem impressive.
You won't be getting that; not a professional game studio, anyway.
I would say porting to UR4 - new maps and all the old original stuff allowing for continued development IS CoH2. The graphics and potential will be there. I think a lot of people just don't understand what a difference going to a new engine will make.
I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?sprinkles on the donuts
I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?
I'll respectfully disagree -- the exact same content, just on a new engine, doesn't seem like a sequel to the game (which would merit the 2) to me. Continues updates are great, but is that enough grounds to label it a sequel? Most MMOs get continued updates but never tick a number up from them. I do agree that it's a lot of work internally to make it work, but I'm not so sure on naming it a sequel. I'd say 1.5 is better for it.
Like I said though, respect your opinion on it -- it's a question of semantics either way, so it's all about opinions!
Does it have to be either COH 1.5 or 2? Can't we just call it, oh I don't know, COH 10?
This is pretty easy for me. CoH 2 would mean that it's a different game, new powers, new zones, a new storyline, new enhancements system/something totally different, just an all around different game except for the core feel of CoH. Revival would be CoH 1.5 to me because it's just a remake of the same game we knew, with graphic updates and whatever else patches or balances they want to make to the game, also adding a couple new zones, powersets, IO's and stuff like that post release.
Hello everyone. I haven't kept up with the forum in a while and wanted to know what the latest update was if someone could let me know. Is the game a go, a no or a maybe still. ;D
In fact you know thinking about it the best name for the new update - CoH 2015 or whatever year it comes out.
Or perhaps just renumber the issues, "Vol 2, Issue 1" as the only outward change. . .
I kinda like that! To honor comicbook tradition we could combine some ideas and have:City of Heroes
Forever
Vol 2 Issue 1
Or something in that general vein.
APR is only small at the moment because in all honesty until the deal is sealed there is nothing that can be done. I am taking the time to learn UnReal4 engine and a lot of the others are doing the same, learning new skills. Since much of the game is planned to be a direct port - at the beginning a lot of the work is simple grunt stuff. I know that i am working on new maps - one of the main complaints I heard from players was how boring it was to do the same maps over and over.That was one of my very few complaints as well. Knowing exactly what was around every corner did tend to take the mystery out of it.
I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?A "2" would be a "spiritual successor" like City of Titans to me. They are trying to make a whole new game that plays similar to CoH with the same "feel". They want to appeal to the same audience, but are striving to create a new game.
I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?
If it was up to me, I'd continue calling it APR until such time as the licensing deals are real and things ramp up to full work.I like that.
Then I'd call the entire project -- City of Heroes: Revival (or possibly City of Heroes: Forever)
Same universe and similar mechanics, but a completely different starting point and all new content.
This is probably why APR has been dubbed CoX 1.5; you'll have a different engine and slightly different mechanics, but everything else (i.e. costumes, powers, stories, main characters, zones, etc.) will be the same, or as close to the same as possible.
At least in the beginning. ;) I think the reason I loved the original so much is because it didn't need a 2.0...the game kept expanding and giving us new content with each new issue, so a sequel was unnecessary. Most of the CoH 2 yearning I read on the old boards had more to do with wanting new engine (graphics, physics, or whatever) capabilities rather than wanting a whole new game.
And that's what you'll be giving us if the NCSoft deal goes through. That, and hopefully the reality of being able to play indefinitely...
I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?
I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?
In fact you know thinking about it the best name for the new update - CoH 2015 or whatever year it comes out.
Why name it 1.5 or 2? Wasn't the game named "City of Heroes: Freedom"?
Now I'd like it to be "City of Heroes: Infinity" or "City of Heroes: Defiant" (anything except Union will do because, you know, it was Union and stuff, no matter how well "City of Heroes: Union" sounds :P)
I kinda like City of Heroes: Fred
There is no thing that could be done with the end game that would not have people complaining. Seriously, the thing you want end game to be would have 50,000 other players screaming in protest. Same with me. And with everyone. This is because everyone wants end game tailored to how they like to play the game themselves.
This is not a realistic expectation.
I had no problem with CoX's endgame, because when I got worn out with it I just took a break and went back to leveling new characters up, or having someone go rogue, or any one of the 10,000 other fun things CoX had for us to do. Then when I wanted to work on someone's Hybrid progress, it was time to hope some brave soul was forming an UG trial.
I want this game back so badly I would be willing to run BAF 100 times a day.
But, regardless CoT should do exactly what they want regarding endgame, because they wont please everyone - so they should just do what they want. People are going to scream bloody murder regardless. 8)
Insofar as no game can please everybody all the time, you're right. But I find it difficult to understand how someone who loved the L1-50 game could love something so incongruent as the iTrials.
Personally, I really like "City of Heroes: Resurgence"Quite. APR being renamed City of Heroes: Resurgence if things work out is ideal on very many levels. Now we just need to have it happen.
It not only fits, perfectly, something about picking up right where we left off seems like a tribute to the old Devs. Issue 24, the issue they were almost finished with, was going to be called Resurgence. I think calling the new game Resurgence as a tribute to them would be nice.
I want City of Heroes: Tacos TuesdayThat would be City of Heroes: Tanker Tuesday.
Fact is that CoH was such a large and constantly expanding game that things like a "true" expansion to a CoH 2 was never needed.
That would be City of Heroes: Tanker Tuesday.
You don't like incarnate trials yes I GET IT! But name calling and putting people in stereotypes just because you don't like the content they enjoy is ignorant.Yeah, the whole false dichotomy of "either you ran Incarnate content or were a worthwhile human being who played lower level content and associated with newer players" is exactly that. Many of us did both. Any given day when i logged in there was an equal chance i'd be playing a lower level alt and teaming up with anyone who asked or running an ITF, LGTF or iTrial or randomly trying things to see what happens. Frequently i'd be playing both higher and lower level content in the same session. To me every aspect of the game was a source of entertainment. i wasn't always laughing with the other members of the team, but i was generally laughing.
Yeah, the whole false dichotomy of "either you ran Incarnate content or were a worthwhile human being who played lower level content and associated with newer players" is exactly that. Many of us did both. Any given day when i logged in there was an equal chance i'd be playing a lower level alt and teaming up with anyone who asked or running an ITF, LGTF or iTrial or randomly trying things to see what happens. Frequently i'd be playing both higher and lower level content in the same session. To me every aspect of the game was a source of entertainment. i wasn't always laughing with the other members of the team, but i was generally laughing.
I want City of Heroes: Tacos Tuesday
My only concern was that it seemed like the incarnate trials were starting to pull the veterans away from L1-L50 content and into the post-50s, to the detriment of the younger section of community.
The great fred likes tacos
That would be City of Heroes: Tanker Tuesday.
Yeah, the whole false dichotomy of "either you ran Incarnate content or were a worthwhile human being who played lower level content and associated with newer players" is exactly that. Many of us did both. Any given day when i logged in there was an equal chance i'd be playing a lower level alt and teaming up with anyone who asked or running an ITF, LGTF or iTrial or randomly trying things to see what happens. Frequently i'd be playing both higher and lower level content in the same session. To me every aspect of the game was a source of entertainment. i wasn't always laughing with the other members of the team, but i was generally laughing.I know the feeling. I had 34 50's not counting all the alts at lower levels..I loved leveling. I loved croatoa. and striga...and a lot of other places.so it was a tossup as to what i would be playing
I kinda like City of Heroes: Fred
I actually hated how people didn't play the full Magistrum Itrial, because it's not a bad trial and it's not that much longer. But people just wanted to unlock the slot :/.
This sort of annoyed me, too. I rarely teamed, because I preferred to solo, but I did like running in iTrials now and again (mostly for the iXP, but also to see the story content there- or try to). I only ever got past the first part of the Magisterium Trial one time, but by then, so many people had dropped, that we didn't stand a chance against the Bosses, and never made it to Cole. (We did take out everyone, IIRC, except for Chimera and Nega-Pendragon.)
That would be City of Heroes: Tanker Tuesday.
I kinda like City of Heroes: Fred
Insofar as no game can please everybody all the time, you're right. But I find it difficult to understand how someone who loved the L1-50 game could love something so incongruent as the iTrials. I totally understand how a new player, fresh from 80 levels of WoW grinding, might race their way through 50 levels of the standard CoH content and then jump for joy upon reaching BAF. I'm sure it felt like home to them. But not to me.
I felt a unique kinship with the kind of players who formed the Taxicab service, or who would see a newbie struggling a bit and dump some Inf on them just because they could. I felt very little kinship with most of the iTrial lovers. From what I gather, the datamining seemed to indicate that only a tiny % of the game's population experienced the Incarnate system, and honestly I'm not that surprised. CoH was a spectacular MMORPG; but IMO the Incarnate system wasn't CoH. It was an alien organism hosted within CoH.
Even from a design perspective, the Incarnate system felt like a massive compromise, as if the devs were stuck between a rock (l33t players seeking end-game progression) and a hard place (a codebase completely hostile to raising of the level cap and the expansion of the power set system that was already straining from the existance of primary, secondary, pool, and epic/patron sets). On the one hand, it could be argued that the Incarnate system was better than no system of advanced powers at all. But the take-away for me is that any "spiritual successor" to CoH under development today ought to seriously re-think its approach to the "end game" and not make it feel like all the other MMOs out there because, frankly, most of us loved CoH precisely because it didn't try to feel like all the others (which mostly just wanted to feel like WoW).
Insofar as no game can please everybody all the time, you're right. But I find it difficult to understand how someone who loved the L1-50 game could love something so incongruent as the iTrials. I totally understand how a new player, fresh from 80 levels of WoW grinding, might race their way through 50 levels of the standard CoH content and then jump for joy upon reaching BAF. I'm sure it felt like home to them. But not to me.
City of Heroes
Volume 3
Issue 1 : Calm before the Storm.
Actually, that's catchy and far better than City of Heroes: Mortimer :P
Fred might be referring to the HERO system (pen and paper RPG), where the fifth edition was called 'Fred'.And as far as i know Mortimer is referring to... someone named Mortimer?
Fred? Mortimer? I don't get it. Did I miss something?
I refer to it as CoH:Unreal
As for those who were subbed and simply didn't enjoy the incarnate content, what would you have had those of us who did enjoy iTrials do?
And as far as i know Mortimer is referring to... someone named Mortimer?That name always reminds me of this 80s movie called Trading Places starring Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd. There was another main character played brilliantly by Don Ameche called "Mortimer".
That name always reminds me of this 80s movie called Trading Places starring Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd. There was another main character played brilliantly by Don Ameche called "Mortimer".
That name always reminds me of this 80s movie called Trading Places starring Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd. There was another main character played brilliantly by Don Ameche called "Mortimer".
Possibly unrelated, Mortimer was also the original name for Mickey MouseAnd at least one or two Mickey Mouse parodies of varying levels of inappropriateness.
Possibly unrelated, Mortimer was also the original name for Mickey Mouse
I was think of Randolph and Mortimer, they where were a couple of bookies till they got broke then saved by a prince.
Those were the same guys as in Trading Places.
I'd have you keep on running the iTrials. Getting rid of them after the fact wouldn't have served anybody's interests.
At the same time, however, I'd like to think that had the devs given us an Incarnate system (which I use to collectively refer to the iTrials as well as the new power system they unlocked) that was consistent with the systems and gameplay of the rest of CoH, more of the subbing CoH community would have eaten it up and enjoyed it even more than what we got. And after all, if you're a big fan of the game and the innumerable ways it was different from all the other MMOs out there, "more like CoH" is axiomatically superior/preferable to "less like CoH", is it not?
It's too late to do anything about it for CoH, but there's still time to influence the future "successors to CoH". I'm hoping the devs of CoT, H&V, and VO will take the opportunity to reevaluate Paragon Studio's approach to end game content and make theirs more, not less, congruent with the rest of their game(s).
If City of heroes 2 took place in Albuquerque, Taco Tuesday would be fin- hmmm, actually maybe not(for the record I do live there now). Tanker and Taco Tuesday?
This is what I would expect from a CoH 2 - another city, or a more global approach. Sure, you could do a CoH 2 that took place in Paragon, but then you'd have to deal with figuring out what happened to all the old characters and story lines - if you just create the game in a new engine, and continue the story where CoH 1 left off, then I personally consider that to be more of a 1.75, than a whole new game. APR would be closer to 1.5, because it's not only going to pick up the story right where CoH was, it's going to include all the extant content as well.
I am also in Albuquerque, and the colors of the two sides would obviously have to be changed to red and green.
I get the impression that some are confusing [Title] 2.0, which denotes a major patch/upgrade to a computer program, with [Title] 2, which denotes a sequel -- a different story which continues the same characters and overall situation from a previous release (e.g., the Final Fantasy series, or the Star Trek movies 1-10). I'm certainly having trouble keeping track of which one is being referred to by any given message here. :/ The first is a revision of the same release; the second is a whole separate release.
Place it in Seattle, and add in Dragons and Trolls as Contacts. We already have hackers and evil corporations (see the Doctor's Friend arc), may as well go full-bore Shadowrun.I've been playing the Sega version of Shadowrun lately.
That was one of my very few complaints as well. Knowing exactly what was around every corner did tend to take the mystery out of it.
I've been playing the Sega version of Shadowrun lately.
At one of the San Diego Comic-Cons that NCSoft and Paragon Studios had a booth, I asked Positron about the maps. it was clear that the maps were made from 'blocks' that were pre-defined and just stuck together in various ways to make maps, and I wondered whether it would be possible to either 1) create an editor for AE missions that would allow players to stick the indoor map blocks together to make their own maps, or 2) create a map randomizer, so that instead of having a limited number of maps that everyone had memorized, each time you went into a warehouse or office or Council/CoT tunnel you'd be facing a different layout. He said that I was right about the building blocks for the maps, but that the tools they had for manipulating them were too primitive, and required too much detailed hand tweaking in assembly, to make either of those options possible without a lot of time-consuming cleanup of the map-creation system. For example I'm sure everyone has, at some point or another, encountered a map where there's a black wall across a corridor, but if you walk into the wall, the corridor continues on the other side, and if you look back you can see the corridor you came from; this is what happens when the 'joints' between two map blocks are misaligned, and the rendering engine thinks the corridor ends where the join occurs.Sounds like a leftover problem from Legacy that will not be imported into CoH 1.5. :D
With more time to work with it, it should be possible to clean up the 'edges' of the map sections so that each of the joints has a properly-defined size and position, which would allow either or both of those ideas to happen, but the amount of front-end work to make sure that everything can be positioned cleanly would make it a fairly long-term goal.
Place it in Seattle, and add in Dragons and Trolls as Contacts. We already have hackers and evil corporations (see the Doctor's Friend arc), may as well go full-bore Shadowrun.Perhaps a skyraider Boeing hostile takeover?
This is what I would expect from a CoH 2 - another city, or a more global approach. Sure, you could do a CoH 2 that took place in Paragon, but then you'd have to deal with figuring out what happened to all the old characters and story lines - if you just create the game in a new engine, and continue the story where CoH 1 left off, then I personally consider that to be more of a 1.75, than a whole new game. APR would be closer to 1.5, because it's not only going to pick up the story right where CoH was, it's going to include all the extant content as well.or keep rouge isles and paragon but make their proximity more relevant?
I am also in Albuquerque, and the colors of the two sides would obviously have to be changed to red and green.
Or perhaps just renumber the issues, "Vol 2, Issue 1" as the only outward change. . .City of Heroes returns.... again
I kinda like that! To honor comicbook tradition we could combine some ideas and have:City of Heroes
Forever
Vol 2 Issue 1
Or something in that general vein.
You won't be getting that; not a professional game studio, anyway.Why not? Why cant a professional studio be made for City of Heroes 1.5 and beyond?
Why not? Why cant a professional studio be made for City of Heroes 1.5 and beyond?
A company actively producing a product and the volunteer effort, while greatly appreciated, is behind us. I think you guys are fantastic but I want a studio producing the product with engaging content and timely updates.
....And I send money some where each month too to keep the lights on.
She can't form a studio to work on it at this moment, because, technically, what she's doing would be Copyright Infringement and borderline piracy if she were to go commercial.
Then, Gratuitous Capitals aside, technically it is even if it's not commercial. "For-profit" has very little relevance to whether or not something violates copyright.
... of course, that is not to say that APR isn't a good thing.
What makes a professional game studio a professional game studio in your eyes?
Copyright laws don't apply to things made for personal use,
Wrong again. That varies depending on the activity and the jurisdiction. For example, even format-shifting was a violation in the UK until June (!), and under the CDPA '88 one had no right to make a transient copy of a work in the normal course of viewing or watching it (!). [1] And no, the situation is not clear-cut in America, either; nor in the EU in general (so I would be amazed if it was in Ireland...)
Furthermore, if what she's posted is "little more than fan art", given that the overwhelming majority of fan art is copyright violations...
[1] Yes, of course these laws are absurd. I am not trying to defend them.
I tried to post this before, but an untimely crash lost my post, so here it take two!
Talk of setting the game in other cities got me to thinking of places that might offer a good unique flavor for "World of Heroes". Some of the mobs would be ones we already know, but others should be unique to the location.
- Crescent City: Roughly based on New Orleans along the Gulf Coast, it might feature a Voodoo theme and perhaps humanoid mutant gators roaming the near bayous.
- Southwest: A rough combination of bits of Texas, New Mexico & Arizona. Cowboy & Indian cults, gang driven drug wars, UFOs and Little Green men, rattlesnakes, coyotes and roadrunners. It may be hard to define a cultural flavor without someone becoming offended by perceived stereotypes though.
- SoCal / West Coast: I think that Titan City may have this location covered.
- Emerald City / Northwest: Roughly taken from elements of Seattle and Portland, it could feature zones like "Jet City" (Boeing Field) and of course should have a "Space Needle". It might feature conflicts between the "Green Tree Huggers" and the "Angry Lumberjacks".
- Steel Town / Motor City: Roughly an industrialised combination of Pittsburgh and Detroit. Poverty stricken neighborhoods surrounded by factories, some run down or abandoned and others as shiny glowing examples of the pinnacle of industry. Organised Crime driven by The Family and of course Nemesis bots everywhere!
- Maple Leaf City: (Yes it is poorly named) Found along the St Lawrence River, featuring bits of Montreal, Quebec, Ottawa and Toronto. They will battle smugglers, homegrown separatists and stupid American tourists. (Sorry couldn't think of something else uniquely Canadian)
- Imperial / Royal City: Based largely on London, we will see proper Bobbies roaming the streets and battling soccer hooligans trashing the town after sporting events. Druids attempting to dispel technology, ghosts and rippers, perhaps the Tsoo have a foothold here too.
- Rio de Paz: This Amazonian / Central American City is based roughly on Rio De Janeiro with other South & Central American Elements. Perhaps we can see a different flavor of voodoo here as well as elements roughly inspired by the Inca's, Aztecs & Mayans. Here too we might see some of the drug wars.
- Asian City / Island Nation: (Had a real tough time coming up with a name for this one) This city will be situated on a large island and will draw elements from all the great Asian cities. Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore and Seoul should all lend flavor. Tsoo will square off against The Tongs and Triads, and both will fight with the more organised criminal gangs based on the Yakuza and Gangpae. Gargantuan Monster events are pretty much mandatory here as are runaway high tech corporations and technology based villains and cheesey martials arts / kung-fu movie scenes.
- Cape City: Drawn mainly from African elements, this one might be harder to keep politically correct, but as long as the city was kept polycultural it should be ok. Hidden intelligent, technological gorilla tribes are a comic book staple as are man-beasts. Perhaps we can see some Moreaus here, escaped from some mad scientists labs in large enough numbers to form tribes and gangs. Revolutionaries face off with huge mining companies and the primitive bushman comes face to face with the world of high technology.
Ok, so all the ideas are very rough and probably unworkable without resorting to some stereotypical connotations, but I felt like tossing it out there.
You forgot a publisher who will provide the logistics, finance, marketing/market research, additional capital, legal, Ops, basically majority of the "back of the house."
Actually, you don't -have- to have a publisher these days. That's kinda the point of digital distribution. You will need to handle all those other things yourself if you don't, though.
To me the port to UR4 can be done with volunteers.Good point there. The possibility of under-performance has been well discussed since it seems "more likely", but what happens if there is over-performance?
Running the game will require a studio at some point. If you want to continue development and sell the product you will need to have some form of an accounting structure and a responsible entity. If you tied it to Steam - that is one way but I would still have it a standalone purchase or be able to run without Steam running as some folks have an irrational hatred for Steam.
Here is the other part - let's say the game is wildly successful and gets 5 million subscribers - people will want to get paid. If you are raking in $10 million a month then you need a structure outlined even if not filled until needed. A Business Plan would be step one after the deal is complete.
Technically what is being done in APR currently is a reverse engineering exercise. Nothing to see there this is not the copyright violation you are looking for.
Good point there. The possibility of under-performance has been well discussed since it seems "more likely", but what happens if there is over-performance?
A failure can cause stress and conflict in a team for sure, but success can split a group of people too. That might be something all involved want to give some thought to. Better make sure everyone will get a piece of it.
Insofar as no game can please everybody all the time, you're right. But I find it difficult to understand how someone who loved the L1-50 game could love something so incongruent as the iTrials.
I felt a unique kinship with the kind of players who formed the Taxicab service, or who would see a newbie struggling a bit and dump some Inf on them just because they could. I felt very little kinship with most of the iTrial lovers.
From what I gather, the datamining seemed to indicate that only a tiny % of the game's population experienced the Incarnate system, and honestly I'm not that surprised.
Even from a design perspective, the Incarnate system felt like a massive compromise, as if the devs were stuck between a rock (l33t players seeking end-game progression) and a hard place (a codebase completely hostile to raising of the level cap and the expansion of the power set system that was already straining from the existance of primary, secondary, pool, and epic/patron sets). On the one hand, it could be argued that the Incarnate system was better than no system of advanced powers at all. But the take-away for me is that any "spiritual successor" to CoH under development today ought to seriously re-think its approach to the "end game" and not make it feel like all the other MMOs out there because, frankly, most of us loved CoH precisely because it didn't try to feel like all the others (which mostly just wanted to feel like WoW).
Arcana: 1
Internet: 0
Speaking for myself, mostly because I didn't find it incongruent. To me, there's a very straight line you can draw from the L1-50 game which is about power progression, through the invention system which is about enhancement progression, to the incarnate system that is about a higher level hybrid of that.
Now, in terms of the incarnate *content*, it did start off as a large scale raid system, but they were adding other content to it, and if anything it was a far superior experience in my opinion to the original raid system - Hamidon. It wasn't too dissimilar from, and could be seen as an extension of, zone events, mothership raids, and other larger scale content.
Its also fair to say that the incarnate raid content added something for players who wanted something larger scale than the 4-8 task force system, so in a sense it was also an extension of the task force/strike force system.
You say that like those were two different exclusive groups of players.
That was not my understanding. In terms of overall percentages, it was probably not high, but that's because most players did not have level 50 players: it took a lot more investment in time than most players appreciated to get a character to 50, and all the end game systems were targeted at them. In terms of players who had at least one level 50, I think the percentage was probably reasonable. Particularly if you include all players that at least possessed a slotted Alpha power, which was usable outside of iTrials.
So here's the thing. There was nothing preventing the devs from raising the level cap. I'm not sure why you think the gamecode was "hostile" to that, except that I think you think that would have been a good idea.
It would have been a terrible idea. There's no specific reason to raise the level cap of a game unless your intent is to *stratify* the players at the cap. A level 50 has content available to her that a level 40 doesn't (barring sidekicking into it). Levels are *gates* in game design, and you add more when you want to add more gates. City of Heroes didn't need more content gates, because it didn't have enough players to justify more stratification at the top. Moreover, the players that did reach the cap had spent a long time there and had built up their characters to exist at the cap through builds and inventions: raising the cap would simply force them to restart those builds from scratch.
The incarnate system was not in my opinion a "compromise" in this sense. It was actually the correct target to aim for. Rather than adding more "levels" to the game the Incarnate system created a way to advance through gaining powers and abilities without having to invalidate level 50 builds. Furthermore, much of that heightened ability was *only* usable in the end game content. That made it a completely optional enhancement to the game. Had the devs created (all) incarnate abilities that could be used everywhere, they would have started a chain reaction of power creep where they would have to rebalance PvE content for stronger players - but that would leave non-incarnates behind.
The fact that some players said they didn't like it and thus did not participate is part of the strength of the system: even moreso than the invention system it could be safely ignored for those that did not want to participate. If you didn't participate in the invention system, you'd quickly notice the massive strength difference between you and your fellow players in teamed content. But except for the benefits of Alpha which were not as noticeable, you wouldn't notice a strong difference between you and your incarnate brethren in teamed content outside of the iTrials.
When the invention system was introduced in I9, there was a deliberate intent for it to affect the entire game. It was technically optional, but the design intent was to essentially replace the standard enhancement system with something better. It was designed to change the entire game, and it did for those that paid even a small amount of attention to it. The incarnate system was designed with the opposite intent: to disrupt the conventional game as little as possible, and in that it mostly succeeded. Changes like restructuring power sets or adding powers and slots or raising the level cap all disrupt the convention game in many ways subtle and not so subtle. The devs didn't avoid doing those things because they couldn't, they avoided them because they were all bad ideas if you wanted to preserve the L1-50 environment while simultaneously introducing very powerful character progression content.
I should also express my opinion that "most of us" is a phrase to be used sparingly, and only with unimpeachable justification. I'm generally not comfortable doing it, and I don't think anyone else should either.
Several things will be needed, including but not limited to:Why isn't a professional studio needed? It would be nice have a development team making new content to the game. I want new content if we can get it. Obviously what IG is doing is pretty much miracle worker work but she wont be able to expand the game like a studio on her own. Why would be not want to better our game? Not to mention the money it could bring in and add longevity to the game.
* Registered company
* IP rights
* Salaried employees
* Sufficient cash to deliver the product AND to keep it going post-release
* Porfolio
Without the salaried employees or portfolio, you're more likely to be considered an indie studio (which is what I consider MWM to be). There's nothing wrong with indie studio's btw, but I was responding to someone who said he wanted a "professional studio" to be running CoH.
No offence to you, IG, but I can't really see you making CoH 1.5 a full on professional studio this side of actually releasing something. Perhaps in the future, but not for quite some time.
Besides, it's completely not necessary anyway. Unlike the guy I was responding to, I don't see that a "professional studio" is even remotely needed.
To me the port to UR4 can be done with volunteers.
Though I get the feeling there were more people playing then you probably think Arcana, I agree with all the other points. Incarnate content was designed to maximize and maintain maximum replayability. Just increasing the level cap to 60 would have not only invalidated level 50 builds but also not increase replayability any, only decrease it I feel. It was made such that existing level 50 content wouldn't be made to easy just due to the fact that a level 60 would not be challenged nore be able to fully enjoy level 50 stuff anymore. So incarnate content was designed to maximize bang for the buck, it expanded end-game options and added new options for character customization, and gave more things to do without making everything at level 50 something you can no longer do.
I do still wonder what the end game was for Incarnate. We've established that the powers were only usable for L45+. Once all the Incarnate levels were gained, what then?
That meant actual content where it was usable was in PI, RWZ, the Shard, Grandville, RV, and DA if I counted right. Toss in AE, Alignment and Scanner missions.
Were you supposed to solo that content afterwards? Just keep running the trials? Solo AVs, GMs, Hamidon? New zones? New arcs?
Speaking for myself, mostly because I didn't find it incongruent. To me, there's a very straight line you can draw from the L1-50 game which is about power progression, through the invention system which is about enhancement progression, to the incarnate system that is about a higher level hybrid of that.
Now, in terms of the incarnate *content*, it did start off as a large scale raid system, but they were adding other content to it, and if anything it was a far superior experience in my opinion to the original raid system - Hamidon. It wasn't too dissimilar from, and could be seen as an extension of, zone events, mothership raids, and other larger scale content.
Its also fair to say that the incarnate raid content added something for players who wanted something larger scale than the 4-8 task force system, so in a sense it was also an extension of the task force/strike force system.
You say that like those were two different exclusive groups of players.
That was not my understanding. In terms of overall percentages, it was probably not high, but that's because most players did not have level 50 players: it took a lot more investment in time than most players appreciated to get a character to 50, and all the end game systems were targeted at them. In terms of players who had at least one level 50, I think the percentage was probably reasonable. Particularly if you include all players that at least possessed a slotted Alpha power, which was usable outside of iTrials.
So here's the thing. There was nothing preventing the devs from raising the level cap. I'm not sure why you think the gamecode was "hostile" to that, except that I think you think that would have been a good idea.
It would have been a terrible idea. There's no specific reason to raise the level cap of a game unless your intent is to *stratify* the players at the cap. A level 50 has content available to her that a level 40 doesn't (barring sidekicking into it). Levels are *gates* in game design, and you add more when you want to add more gates. City of Heroes didn't need more content gates, because it didn't have enough players to justify more stratification at the top. Moreover, the players that did reach the cap had spent a long time there and had built up their characters to exist at the cap through builds and inventions: raising the cap would simply force them to restart those builds from scratch.
The incarnate system was not in my opinion a "compromise" in this sense. It was actually the correct target to aim for. Rather than adding more "levels" to the game the Incarnate system created a way to advance through gaining powers and abilities without having to invalidate level 50 builds. Furthermore, much of that heightened ability was *only* usable in the end game content. That made it a completely optional enhancement to the game. Had the devs created (all) incarnate abilities that could be used everywhere, they would have started a chain reaction of power creep where they would have to rebalance PvE content for stronger players - but that would leave non-incarnates behind.
The fact that some players said they didn't like it and thus did not participate is part of the strength of the system: even moreso than the invention system it could be safely ignored for those that did not want to participate. If you didn't participate in the invention system, you'd quickly notice the massive strength difference between you and your fellow players in teamed content. But except for the benefits of Alpha which were not as noticeable, you wouldn't notice a strong difference between you and your incarnate brethren in teamed content outside of the iTrials.
When the invention system was introduced in I9, there was a deliberate intent for it to affect the entire game. It was technically optional, but the design intent was to essentially replace the standard enhancement system with something better. It was designed to change the entire game, and it did for those that paid even a small amount of attention to it. The incarnate system was designed with the opposite intent: to disrupt the conventional game as little as possible, and in that it mostly succeeded. Changes like restructuring power sets or adding powers and slots or raising the level cap all disrupt the convention game in many ways subtle and not so subtle. The devs didn't avoid doing those things because they couldn't, they avoided them because they were all bad ideas if you wanted to preserve the L1-50 environment while simultaneously introducing very powerful character progression content.
I should also express my opinion that "most of us" is a phrase to be used sparingly, and only with unimpeachable justification. I'm generally not comfortable doing it, and I don't think anyone else should either.
[/quot
MIC DROP...
I do still wonder what the end game was for Incarnate.
I think the answer to that question is similar to the answer to the question "what was the end game for the entire game?" The answer is: the devs didn't have an "end" to their end game plans.
Optional isn't synonymous with undesirable.
I think the answer to that question is similar to the answer to the question "what was the end game for the entire game?" The answer is: the devs didn't have an "end" to their end game plans.
"End game" as an MMO term is a bit of a misnomer in that its not about an "end." The "end" in endgame refers to the point where conventional level-gating (cf: level cap) ends and content switches from being about getting through the next content gate and starts being about more open ended (if often grindy) development.
What I think was interesting about CoH's "end game" was that it wasn't, in spite of complaints to the contrary, focused purely on raiding. The initial content was large scale raids, but that was because we didn't have any yet and this was when they were going to be introduced. But the revamp of Dark Astoria suggested that the incarnate system was going to be a more seamless expansion of the standard content, with zone content, mission content, and task force content to complement the raid content.
This ventures into a subject I spent a lot of time kicking around on the old forums: what constituted the "core" game and what constituted the "optional" game. You could argue that the Incarnate system was evolving into Yet Another non-core gameplay mode. The standard game was the conventional content-based (usually) leveling from 1 to 50, with the associated power and enhancement progression. The incarnate system as a whole was developing from a raid niche to a more full-fledged game experience with a range of content driven by the core incarnate power system and the raids as a strong core component of progression.
Of course, many people who disliked raiding and disliked the incarnate progressional power system felt that time spent developing it was time diverted from the rest of the game, and player time spent on it diverted players from contributing to the rest of the game. Both true statements, but also entirely in keeping with the philosophy I subscribed to and generally ascribed to the devs as "something for everyone, not everything for someone." Part of acknowledging the fact that CoH allowed for diverse playstyles is that it often encouraged and spent valuable dev time on ones you might dislike yourself personally. I think eventually the great irony of the Incarnate system is that the very players that were complaining about the fact that it was about nothing but raiding would eventually be complaining about the fact that there was all this other stuff happening in it they couldn't experience because they didn't want to participate in the incarnate system.
Optional isn't synonymous with undesirable.
The devs said in the Loregasms that the ten Incarnate powers were going to be eventually revealed to be only "tier 1" of the Incarnate system, with a second set of ten powers above it, and then ten more above those, and so on ad nauseum.
Frankly, I don't know how they were going to manage to come up with ten more powers that were more insanely overpowered than what they had planned for Omega.
The problem there is unless NCsoft gives the team source code access, and by some great boon they figure out a way to reasonably transplant CoH's scripting engine to UE4 (Therefore making it so a great deal of things don't actually have to be rewritten), it would be a massive undertaking almost on par with making an entirely new game.APR is getting CoT's code base, which they will then massage into how City works (or as close as they possibly can).
Even IF they manage to transplant the script, it's going to be a lot of work.
What DID they have planned for Omega?
It was in the second AMA (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA):
Also in the second AMA:
Frankly, I'm not sure that sounds sustainable.
Frankly, I'm not sure that sounds sustainable.
CoH would have ended up turning into Exalted... I'm glad it didn't happen, and assuming things move forwards, I hope Irish_Girl abandons that approach. There are far better ways to continue progression without falling for this trap.
Picking up the reins off the floor, and dusting them off... I have to say the Incarnate system is giving me one of the biggest headaches.
I wish I could just nuke it from orbit and almost re-make the end game from scratch...
Picking up the reins off the floor, and dusting them off... I have to say the Incarnate system is giving me one of the biggest headaches.
I wish I could just nuke it from orbit and almost re-make the end game from scratch...
There's plenty of folks who wouldn't object (but also plenty who would!)
Personally, i never liked the forced story path involved in the whole Incarnate thing, and RP wise, completely and utterly ignored it as the most base kind of railroading.
My main got all those extra powers because of her continuing changes wrought by the Kheldian energy on her latent mutant genes and the other things done to her and consequently, she was becoming more powerful and and less human as time went on...
There's plenty of folks who wouldn't object (but also plenty who would!)
Personally, i never liked the forced story path involved in the whole Incarnate thing, and RP wise, completely and utterly ignored it as the most base kind of railroading.
My main got all those extra powers because of her continuing changes wrought by the Kheldian energy on her latent mutant genes and the other things done to her and consequently, she was becoming more powerful and and less human as time went on...
Picking up the reins off the floor, and dusting them off... I have to say the Incarnate system is giving me one of the biggest headaches.
I wish I could just nuke it from orbit and almost re-make the end game from scratch...
Imagine how my Incarnate felt--she had no superpowers. Street Justice/Willpower brute, used Ninja Run as my travel power because it was the only one that didn't have a connotation of "superhuman" ability. Ran the whole Dark Astoria run before I even filled my Alpha slot, and had all these people telling me that my Incarnate power was the only thing Mot feared. I was like, "Listen buddy, I punch things. With my fist. If he's afraid of that, we may be in better shape than I thought." :)
My main, RP wise, failed and was devoured by Mot... :( She had too much emotional baggage for him to prey on.
Luckily, when others defeated him (we made a thing of it, server-wide, on Union), he spat up most of those he'd devoured and my main came back! Was a couple of weeks without playing her though!
For those that knew her, the fiction I posted up at the time was pretty heart rending! I -loved- the Mot storyline. :p
It was in the second AMA (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA):
Also in the second AMA:
Frankly, I'm not sure that sounds sustainable.
The problem there is unless NCsoft gives the team source code access, and by some great boon they figure out a way to reasonably transplant CoH's scripting engine to UE4 (Therefore making it so a great deal of things don't actually have to be rewritten), it would be a massive undertaking almost on par with making an entirely new game.Yes and no. We have ALL of the maps and costume parts now. This is what peple are working on first. If you have the entire game done graphically and then just need the gameplay side plugged in - it should be much easier. Having all the source code as a huge spaghetti mess would likely not be possible to port over to UR4 at least easily.
Even IF they manage to transplant the script, it's going to be a lot of work.
Sounds more like a QoL/Warshade balancing issue, and less a fondness for Incarnate itself.Never underestimate a good Space Drunk.
Unless I'm mis-reading and/or Space Drunk.
Sounds more like a QoL/Warshade balancing issue, and less a fondness for Incarnate itself.
Unless I'm mis-reading and/or Space Drunk.
Frankly, I'm not sure that sounds sustainable.
It wasn't, and was never really intended to be. If I'm remembering correctly (and this is to an extent an interpretation of things Posi's said.)
The plan was basically have the players beat the Bastion, then the True Rikit, then the Dimensionless...and then pull a Rikti War type doomsday and start CoH2.
At which point the players would have been cosmic level gods...which would be solved when they just killed all the everything. (Same excuse why there weren't any heroes when CoH started "They all died in the Rikti War.")
Picking up the reins off the floor, and dusting them off... I have to say the Incarnate system is giving me one of the biggest headaches.
I wish I could just nuke it from orbit and almost re-make the end game from scratch...
There are two main threads, not sure which this question belongs in, but here goes:
Have chances improved at all for getting back specifically the Utopian "fix everything" Issue 24 version of CoX?
I would give a LOT to make that happen - and when I say a LOT, I mean open wallet, all my time, etc.
Been away for several weeks (months?) so not in the loop.
I think the answer to that question is similar to the answer to the question "what was the end game for the entire game?" The answer is: the devs didn't have an "end" to their end game plans.
"End game" as an MMO term is a bit of a misnomer in that its not about an "end." The "end" in endgame refers to the point where conventional level-gating (cf: level cap) ends and content switches from being about getting through the next content gate and starts being about more open ended (if often grindy) development.
What I think was interesting about CoH's "end game" was that it wasn't, in spite of complaints to the contrary, focused purely on raiding. The initial content was large scale raids, but that was because we didn't have any yet and this was when they were going to be introduced. But the revamp of Dark Astoria suggested that the incarnate system was going to be a more seamless expansion of the standard content, with zone content, mission content, and task force content to complement the raid content.
This ventures into a subject I spent a lot of time kicking around on the old forums: what constituted the "core" game and what constituted the "optional" game. You could argue that the Incarnate system was evolving into Yet Another non-core gameplay mode. The standard game was the conventional content-based (usually) leveling from 1 to 50, with the associated power and enhancement progression. The incarnate system as a whole was developing from a raid niche to a more full-fledged game experience with a range of content driven by the core incarnate power system and the raids as a strong core component of progression.
Of course, many people who disliked raiding and disliked the incarnate progressional power system felt that time spent developing it was time diverted from the rest of the game, and player time spent on it diverted players from contributing to the rest of the game. Both true statements, but also entirely in keeping with the philosophy I subscribed to and generally ascribed to the devs as "something for everyone, not everything for someone." Part of acknowledging the fact that CoH allowed for diverse playstyles is that it often encouraged and spent valuable dev time on ones you might dislike yourself personally. I think eventually the great irony of the Incarnate system is that the very players that were complaining about the fact that it was about nothing but raiding would eventually be complaining about the fact that there was all this other stuff happening in it they couldn't experience because they didn't want to participate in the incarnate system.
Optional isn't synonymous with undesirable.
I suspect that falls under the category of "we'll cross that bridge when we blow it up."i generally phrase it as "we'll burn that bridge when we come to it."
But yeah, i couldn't see any way additional Incarnate trees could just keep being stacked and make it work well. As it was i had started to find Incarnate powers annoying since by level 50 i already had too many powers in my trays on many of my alts as it was. While i could have relegated some to keybinds i liked being able to see the icon to keep track of recharge status and remind myself what a given alt's loadout was since i tended to switch characters frequently and they usually had very different builds and playstyles. Generally if i took a power i expected to use it fairly often; i almost never took powers just as IO mules. Using binds to swap power trays on the fly was something i mostly reserved for my Kheldians, but i suppose that one advantage of the Incarnate system was that it had almost convinced me to start doing it more often.
Maybe i could have reduced my temp power trays by creating combined temp power macros. One macro for melee temp attacks, one for ranged temp attacks, one for AoEs, mezzes, etcetera...
While the unlocking of ever increasing Incarnate tiers didn';t really seem like a solid plan, I was more unhappy with the plans for handling the addition of a new enemy with each such jump. The idea that each enemy would "call in" to a higher power that was their puppetmaster just before being defeated, over and over, seemed like a very weak framework. After reading Posi's commentary on such plans, I was somewhat glad that it did not have a chance to come to pass.
I understand that he wanted to keep adding more and more layers or endgame content like this to keep players on the hamster wheel, but the string of increasingly unlikely umaskings seemed rather silly. Scooby Doo isn't really an ideal role model for plot twists when you presumably intend to keep things somewhat serious.
The only thing on the table is a server image from the day of shutdown which is I23. Unless something has changed, there is no way to acquire an I24 image because, as far as we know, it does not exist.
Can we polietly and quietly ask a former Paragon Dev about all this talk of images and saved game states and see if we can go Cold Case or Sherlock Holmes on it?
No.
As in, no, you cannot ask. Nor do you want to, when a possible deal to acquire the rights to I23 is still on the table. Bird in the hand, bird in the hand.
If anyone has an I24 image, and its something they want to share, you won't need to ask. They'll find us. If they don't or can't share, no amount of unsolicited asking will change their mind.
I think there were lots of ways to give players interesting abilities worth trying to earn, without simply stacking bigger numbers on top of conventional powers.
I never had an issue with the Incarnate system. I enjoyed it. It was fun.
The best thing about it is that it was completely optional.. You didnt HAVE to play it at all if you didnt choose to.
Yeah, but I'm fatter than you, so have a bigger... opinion! :p
The problem there is unless NCsoft gives the team source code access, and by some great boon they figure out a way to reasonably transplant CoH's scripting engine to UE4 (Therefore making it so a great deal of things don't actually have to be rewritten), it would be a massive undertaking almost on par with making an entirely new game.
Even IF they manage to transplant the script, it's going to be a lot of work.
Chunking in spaghetti code would just cause headache.
It would, however, be more successful than adding actual spaghetti to your computer.
...learned that the hard way.
No.
As in, no, you cannot ask. Nor do you want to, when a possible deal to acquire the rights to I23 is still on the table. Bird in the hand, bird in the hand.
If anyone has an I24 image, and its something they want to share, you won't need to ask. They'll find us. If they don't or can't share, no amount of unsolicited asking will change their mind.
..and you float so you have that going for youi float as well.
Yeah, but I'm fatter than you, so have a bigger... opinion! :p
You sound like my wife...
Except, you know, she's not a dude.
So on a side note: a student of mind today told me she officially decided she's going in to art design for video games. I told her about the Unreal Engine 4 19 dollar deal and she thinks she's going to try it out just to get a heads up on playing around with the software before she goes to school next fall.
See, this thread not only is reuniting the community and giving us Arcana knowledge, it's also changing lives one person at a time.
:P
What is this $19 deal for Unreal 4? Do you have a link to any information on it?
According to this article, the deal is $19/month software subscription, plus 5% royalty fee on any games you sell built on the engine. http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/19/5526094/unreal-engine-4-subscription-epic-gamesAlso, according to Irish Girl, you really only have to pay once. All you lose is the frequent updates (and access to some resources on the website?)
But its even better than that: https://www.unrealengine.com/what-is-unreal-engine-4
Its free for schools, and the 5% royalty only kicks in after the first $3000 in sales per quarter.
Which is a really, really, really good deal.
I wish I could help out making new zones and or instances or even enemies, but I cannot draw a stick figure :(
(Lots of stuff about potential Incarnate storyline and things involving Players becoming a Well)
IIRC, the Devs not only strongly hinted at but outright stated that becoming a Well was the ultimate "endgame" of the Incarnate path. I want to say they mention it in one of the Lore AMAs, but I believe that Prometheus more or less points out that is what would happen (and strongly alludes to DJ Zero- formerly the Greek God Cupid- being an example of just such a thing.)
I wish I could help out making new zones and or instances or even enemies, but I cannot draw a stick figure :(
I wish I could help out making new zones and or instances or even enemies, but I cannot draw a stick figure :(
Geez there is more than one of us artisticlly challenged types here?
Having access to the Source for CoH wouldn't help as much as some people think. (Not for Revival anyways)CoH the main game was in C.
Unfortunately, I don't know what language CoH was coded in... -scratches head- A C language I'd imagine.
But so much of it would have to be...just starting from scratch anyways so that everything can be done cleanly, and well documented. Chunking in spaghetti code would just cause headache.
ironwolf when coh goes to the real engin can you guys redo water blaster power set to there a flush power....fun watching baddie go down the drain....
ironwolf when coh goes to the real engin can you guys redo water blaster power set to there a flush power....fun watching baddie go down the drain....
Having access to the Source for CoH wouldn't help as much as some people think. (Not for Revival anyways)Based on pure educated guesswork, I would assume the engine itself was written in C, and they had some sort of separate scripting engine on top of it that used a language more suited to event scripting (such as python or lua)
Unfortunately, I don't know what language CoH was coded in... -scratches head- A C language I'd imagine.
But so much of it would have to be...just starting from scratch anyways so that everything can be done cleanly, and well documented. Chunking in spaghetti code would just cause headache.
As long as someone makes demorecording work with whatever engine the game ends up on, I don't care.
Oh, yeah. I hadn't even thought about incorporating a Demo type system. I'll have to add that to the to-do list.
Although nowhere does it say or imply Zero is Cupid, as far as I know.
Question: Where can I find Cupid?
Zero: That... isn't relevant. Cupid is LONG since retired, but his bow and an arrow are in the hands of private collectors.
I am glad Irish_Girl is on our side :)
Is she?
Or is she really just a Nemesis Plot?
nemesis is a Irish girl plot*like*
nemesis is a Irish girl plot
nemesis is a Irish girl plot
nemesis is a Irish girl plot
I for one, welcome our new Irish Girl overlords....
As long as someone makes demorecording work with whatever engine the game ends up on, I don't care.Unreal includes one by default.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
As long as someone makes demorecording work with whatever engine the game ends up on, I don't care.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Unreal includes one by default.
-checks item off To-Do list- Totally skipped my mind.
jeez! Whaddaya, have a lot on your plate, or something? Busy with a ST:TNG marathon, or something? ;)SHUT UP WESLY
jeez! Whaddaya, have a lot on your plate, or something? Busy with a ST:TNG marathon, or something? ;)
Actually... Yes. I also just finished Cowboy BeBop.
Did you also watch the Cowboy BeBop movie? It is excellent!
SHUT UP WESLY/em facepalm
Did you also watch the Cowboy BeBop movie? It is excellent!
Moooovie? No, I didn't know there was one. I'll have to watch it!
Moooovie? No, I didn't know there was one. I'll have to watch it!
... For shame! How could you not know that!? :O
Too much focus on Revival? xD
SHUT UP WESLY
SHUT UP WESLYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwhAq3F8NCE
It's really good. It takes place in the middle of the series (between epiodes 22 and 23, to be specific), rather than after the end, so all the main characters are still together.
Moooovie? No, I didn't know there was one. I'll have to watch it!
The original Japanese title is "Cowboy Bebop: Knocking on Heaven's Door", though the American title is the much less creative "Cowboy Bebop: The Movie."
Less creative, more descriptive.It's actually less descriptive, because "knocking on heaven's door" is VERY descriptive of the movie. The American name just...tells you it's a movie. Which....you already know. Since it's a movie.
Too much focus on Revival? xD
i remember watching that series on Vhs... In 1999 ...
I teach kids who were born after that. I feel old.
Edit: Spike makes me wish we had a single pistol set. Martial manipulation took care of the rest. (Unless you consider him Martal arts/street justice with super reflexes and a temp power pistol).
Trying to remember if COH had a hand gun model close to his
It would be great to be a fly on the wall or a bug on the phone during those negotiations. I would even pay in bacon ingots for that privilege.
Waiting is hell!
The wait is driving me utterly insane.
Hope, always hope!I concur.
Hope, always hope!
The wait is driving me utterly insane.
I concur.
I also like your forum avatar pic thingy, Sinistar :-)
I had an idea the other night for helping to spread the word about COH. If and when it comes back.
Live streaming, I don't have a good enough comp yet. But I thought maybe a group could get together to do live streams. You know do regular content, maybe some crazy builds and the regular COH community high jinks.
Then people could actually see the game in action. :)
With that said, back to my corner until we get news. Going back and forth on which toon to hopefully make first.
I had an idea the other night for helping to spread the word about COH. If and when it comes back.
Live streaming, I don't have a good enough comp yet. But I thought maybe a group could get together to do live streams. You know do regular content, maybe some crazy builds and the regular COH community high jinks.
Then people could actually see the game in action. :)
With that said, back to my corner until we get news. Going back and forth on which toon to hopefully make first.
It's actually less descriptive, because "knocking on heaven's door" is VERY descriptive of the movie. The American name just...tells you it's a movie. Which....you already know. Since it's a movie.
Good idea... Livestreaming wasn't a huge thing when CoH was alive and kicking... I think I'd want to make a "Warshade Build/Playstyle" channel if the game were to go live again. :D
Good idea... Livestreaming wasn't a huge thing when CoH was alive and kicking... I think I'd want to make a "Warshade Build/Playstyle" channel if the game were to go live again. :D
Never used livestraming for CoX, would you use Twitch or another medium?
Probably a liability related decision...I expect it's not unlike why Vega become M. Bison in Street Fighter II, why scads of names got changed in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, etc. People can nerdrage about this if they wish, but it's nice to live one's life without getting sued. It's especially nice to not get sued by the RIAA, a group of people who have raised soullessness to an art form.Even so, the Japanese version had an alternate subtitle: "Tengoku no Tobira", or "Door to Heaven" which is also relevant to the movie's plot in a way that "The Movie" is not (though it does, admittedly, lose the music-related pun).
Never used livestraming for CoX, would you use Twitch or another medium?
Better yet, through some "beta keys"/invite some major streamers to play, that would be more marketing then CoH ever got in its lifetime.
I had an idea the other night for helping to spread the word about COH. If and when it comes back.
Live streaming, I don't have a good enough comp yet. But I thought maybe a group could get together to do live streams. You know do regular content, maybe some crazy builds and the regular COH community high jinks.
Then people could actually see the game in action. :)
With that said, back to my corner until we get news. Going back and forth on which toon to hopefully make first.
This would be good for us, but, for the larger gaming community in general, it might be worth trying to get someone like Achievement Hunter interested in devoting an episode to the re-opened or Revival game.That reminds me about that Captain Dynamic series Rooster Teeth did for CoH. I think it was back when Mission Architect came out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwhAq3F8NCEOH MY GOD :roll:
So its closing in on 2 months past August any hope? Or should revive my anger for the corporate machine?While I breathe, I hope. There is always hope. :-)
So its closing in on 2 months past August any hope? Or should revive my anger for the corporate machine?
So its closing in on 2 months past August any hope? Or should revive my anger for the corporate machine?
Oct. 2: Proof the group can run the servers accepted.
Oct. 10: Nothing new to report.
Continue waiting with the rest of us in the Icon Lounge, good sir.
I think we just saw the post. ;D
forgive me, I blinked along the way and a few dozen more pages are here. Did this get posted?
(And it's not "nerdrage" to dislike or disagree with something. If a simple statement like "I think 'Knockin' on Heaven's Door' or even 'Door to Heaven' is a better subtitle than 'The Movie'" is something you interpret as rage, then I wonder what you call actual screaming rage)
No kidding, I hadn't heard a version with the JJ Abrams verse in it before. That was great!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwhAq3F8NCEOH MY GOD :roll:
forgive me, I blinked along the way and a few dozen more pages are here. Did this get posted?
Oct 2nd Proof Accepted ?? Who reported this.. if its not Downix, Im not taking it as news at this point.I zipped back and read all the posts in this thread from Oct 2nd and didn't see anything of the sort...
Even so, the Japanese version had an alternate subtitle: "Tengoku no Tobira", or "Door to Heaven" which is also relevant to the movie's plot in a way that "The Movie" is not (though it does, admittedly, lose the music-related pun).
In fact, every episode of the show actually had both an English title and a Japanese title (even in the untranslated Japanese version). For many of them, the Japanese title was just the English title in katakana, but not all of them. For example, "Toys in the Attic" was also "Yamiyo no Hevi Rokku" ("Heavy Rock of the Dark Night"), and Pierrot Le Fou had a Japanese title of ""Dōkeshi no Chinkonka" ("Requiem for a Clown"). The movie did the same thing.
So there's no reason they couldn't have called it "Cowboy Bebop: The Door To Heaven". Calling it "The Movie" seems just too on-the-nose, like calling the next Avengers film "Avengers 2: The Movie" instead of "Avengers 2: Age of Ultron."
(And it's not "nerdrage" to dislike or disagree with something. If a simple statement like "I think 'Knockin' on Heaven's Door' or even 'Door to Heaven' is a better subtitle than 'The Movie'" is something you interpret as rage, then I wonder what you call actual screaming rage)
There's not likely to be much update over the holiday season. NCSoft is likely very, very busy right now dealing with other things... and we're a low-priority matter as far as they're concerned.
I was really holding out for a Halloween launch, but that's looking less likely as each day passes. *sigh*
I was really holding out for a Halloween launch, but that's looking less likely as each day passes. *sigh*
Oct 2nd Proof Accepted ?? Who reported this.. if its not Downix, Im not taking it as news at this point.
I am not sure when NCSoft's fiscal year end is, but I hope they squeeze out some extra 4th quarter earnings with the sale of CoX IP.i like this line of thought. Hopefully NCsoft does as well.
I am not sure when NCSoft's fiscal year end is, but I hope they squeeze out some extra 4th quarter earnings with the sale of CoX IP.
From Iron Wolf's big thread, the first post gets updated. Most recently:
UPDATE October 2 2014:
Proof of developer viability was submitted and accepted. The ball is in NCsoft's court while they assess the group's expertise and backing. No news is good news.
(Update Oct 10: No change.)
That's it for the post. It just means one more step in the process.
Really?! They're on their last process of getting City of Heroes back?! Well it's about time they finally made it to the last step of TFHM. All we have to do is wait for the official announcements of City of Heroes return or not? (Which I hope it does!) #SaveCoH!!!! :D
There's not likely to be much update over the holiday season. NCSoft is likely very, very busy right now dealing with other things... and we're a low-priority matter as far as they're concerned.
If they announced tomorrow that the game was coming back, I wouldn't expect it back online until 2015.
You read too much into that statement. What was meant was -- One more step in getting CoH back has been taken. Not that there was only one more step left.
??? What? I don't understand what you're trying to say.... Can somebody help me explain what the update is talking about so I can understand it better?
I think they just go by the calendar year, but don't quote me.
I am skeptical that whatever amount of money is under discussion for this transaction is enough to matter much to NCSoft. This is an IP that has been dormant for two years and they probably have no interest in working with in the future, and it's not like this is a mega corp like EA working on the purchase. The numbers are almost certainly trivial compared to everything else NCSoft is involved in.
NCSoft asked for proof that Nate's group had the ability to actually develop something, and weren't just a bunch of internet yahoos talking a big game with no follow-through.
Nate's group provided something, presumably a tech demo of some sort, or possibly a proposed business plan.
NCSoft said "Ok, that's good enough. We won't outright ignore you. You may continue making your proposal."
I haven't been able to find their Q3 as of yet, their Q2 was announced in August, so I think it is save to assume their Q4 runs through into 2015.
I was really holding out for a Halloween launch, but that's looking less likely as each day passes. *sigh*never give up never surrender :D
I agree that to us money is not our focus - to NCSoft it is the primary focus - make the games people want to buy, period.And from that they got "Go all in on making Blade and Soul marketable to the Chinese as a FtP Because Chinese gamers are absolutely loaded down with expendable money while they sit back and play foreign MMOs all day long." Also "Hey this Carbine developer looks legit, exclusively cater entirely to raids! Everybody who pays money loves raids! Oh I seem to have lost the bug list, no matter!"
Also "Hey this Carbine developer looks legit, exclusively cater entirely to raids! Everybody who pays money loves raids! Oh I seem to have lost the bug list, no matter!"
So, basically, check back in January then?
Yeah ... January... I'm not sensing anything here in time for Christmas... Oh well...
In the meantime, GL with the negotiations, Downix, et al.
4. Determine how many servers are coming back, all or some? Remember there has likely been some attrition to the CoH fanbase in the past 2 years, it is not logical to expect EVERYONE to return on relaunch day, but one can hope. But that is still the question: will ALL the servers come back? Are ALL needed? It might be better to restore HALF of them at first and then if there is enough demand to active the others one by one and let people transfer characters.With today's technology instead of 2004's technology, I'd say one server is enough. Maybe two if people are REALLY needing "server flavor wars" :) Almost everything was one giant mega-server already [insert various caveats from CW here], the different servers were all playing with each other on all the mapservers, etc.
Sinistar makes some very good points, though I think he's being a little optimistic about how many people will come back after two years. I'm not convinced that there will be enough demand for more than one server for the game, to be honest. Is this something where they could do some sort of cloud hosting where they could more easily expand capacity if necessary? I honestly think it would be best to fragment the userbase as little as possible, and you would think that modern hardware could handle more load than the original servers did, assuming the code behind the game wouldn't choke on memory limits or something.
Regardless, even if the deal was signed right this second, there would be a decent amount of time before the game would be able to go live. I also hope I'm wrong about how many people would come back, I'd love to see a vibrant community able to fill all the original servers again.
The way I see it is if NCsoft decides tomorrow to sell off the game, the new team still has to do some things
1. Set up shop somewhere
2. Receive any and all software and hardware from NCSoft that is needed.
3. Make very well sure that the Ish 23 image is backed up in triplicate and stored off site safe and secure ;)
4. Determine how many servers are coming back, all or some? Remember there has likely been some attrition to the CoH fanbase in the past 2 years, it is not logical to expect EVERYONE to return on relaunch day, but one can hope. But that is still the question: will ALL the servers come back? Are ALL needed? It might be better to restore HALF of them at first and then if there is enough demand to active the others one by one and let people transfer characters.
5. Set up the account system
6. Set up the payment system and determine subscription prices if any.
7. Set up website, setup forum
8. Set up download links for those that need to redownload the game
9. Create an update for those that DIDN'T uninstall the game that will point the game to the new servers.
10. Final decision to be made about the Sentinel files, partial restore or not used at all.
11. Possibly setup some sales and incentives to help pacify any lingering anger over the loss of characters (there will be some, it is inevitable), and there will be some players that will have a sense of entitlement about having some incentives at relaunch. Example: the first month of relaunch the celebrant badge is awarded to all toons that log in, and the first month is Double Xp.
12. Decide whether or not to let people buy the vet rewards all the way up to Tier 9 and unlock all the costume pieces that come with them. (I want that mecha armor back)
13. Veteran badges, the system was broken before the shutdown. Will it be fixed or the vet badges junked?
14. Hire GM's
15. Test the blazes out of the game before re-launch and do any major repairs needed. I think it was stated that the game image isn't in the best of shape but I can't recall.
16. When one registers their new account, is it going to be hero only and one would need to purchase a Villain code and a Praetorian code or will it just be all three? Also will key codes from any old CoH packages still work? I have some of my coh boxes and codes still floating around.
17. Update the Terms of Service as needed.
18. If NCSoft truly sells off the game and will have NO CONTROL at all over its future, that really must be made abundantly clear to everyone. There are some that have some bad feelings towards them which are not entirely unjustified.
19. If any ish 24 elements can be added in, great. If not, that's fine since the game would still be back.
Anyway the above list is just speculation, so who knows?
Hope, Forever Hope.
Sinistar makes some very good points, though I think he's being a little optimistic about how many people will come back after two years. I'm not convinced that there will be enough demand for more than one server for the game, to be honest. Is this something where they could do some sort of cloud hosting where they could more easily expand capacity if necessary? I honestly think it would be best to fragment the userbase as little as possible, and you would think that modern hardware could handle more load than the original servers did, assuming the code behind the game wouldn't choke on memory limits or something.
Regardless, even if the deal was signed right this second, there would be a decent amount of time before the game would be able to go live. I also hope I'm wrong about how many people would come back, I'd love to see a vibrant community able to fill all the original servers again.
Here's a nice pic of the sun, kinda reminds me of Eochai
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/tech/nasa-sun-jack-o-lantern/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
16. When one registers their new account, is it going to be hero only and one would need to purchase a Villain code and a Praetorian code or will it just be all three? Also will key codes from any old CoH packages still work? I have some of my coh boxes and codes still floating around.
The way I see it is if NCsoft decides tomorrow to sell off the game, the new team still has to do some things
1. Set up shop somewhere
2. Receive any and all software and hardware from NCSoft that is needed.
3. Make very well sure that the Ish 23 image is backed up in triplicate and stored off site safe and secure ;)
4. Determine how many servers are coming back, all or some? Remember there has likely been some attrition to the CoH fanbase in the past 2 years, it is not logical to expect EVERYONE to return on relaunch day, but one can hope. But that is still the question: will ALL the servers come back? Are ALL needed? It might be better to restore HALF of them at first and then if there is enough demand to active the others one by one and let people transfer characters.
5. Set up the account system
6. Set up the payment system and determine subscription prices if any.
7. Set up website, setup forum
8. Set up download links for those that need to redownload the game
9. Create an update for those that DIDN'T uninstall the game that will point the game to the new servers.
10. Final decision to be made about the Sentinel files, partial restore or not used at all.
11. Possibly setup some sales and incentives to help pacify any lingering anger over the loss of characters (there will be some, it is inevitable), and there will be some players that will have a sense of entitlement about having some incentives at relaunch. Example: the first month of relaunch the celebrant badge is awarded to all toons that log in, and the first month is Double Xp.
12. Decide whether or not to let people buy the vet rewards all the way up to Tier 9 and unlock all the costume pieces that come with them. (I want that mecha armor back)
13. Veteran badges, the system was broken before the shutdown. Will it be fixed or the vet badges junked?
14. Hire GM's
15. Test the blazes out of the game before re-launch and do any major repairs needed. I think it was stated that the game image isn't in the best of shape but I can't recall.
16. When one registers their new account, is it going to be hero only and one would need to purchase a Villain code and a Praetorian code or will it just be all three? Also will key codes from any old CoH packages still work? I have some of my coh boxes and codes still floating around.
17. Update the Terms of Service as needed.
18. If NCSoft truly sells off the game and will have NO CONTROL at all over its future, that really must be made abundantly clear to everyone. There are some that have some bad feelings towards them which are not entirely unjustified.
19. If any ish 24 elements can be added in, great. If not, that's fine since the game would still be back.
Anyway the above list is just speculation, so who knows?
Hope, Forever Hope.
I wouldn't expect a launch until sometime after the announcement the game was coming back.I wouldn't expect a launch until 2016, if it happens at all (which is not certain yet). NCSoft isn't going to hand someone a DVD with a "setup.exe" that they can double-click to start the server. Once the transfer of the server actually happens, it will take months to get it operational and ready for the earliest alpha testers.
Actually, quite a lot of that -- including website (unpublished, of course) -- can be done before the deal ever goes through. That which cannot be physically completed due to lack of actual game servers in hand can be outlined and planned for with the underlying infrastructures in place.
I wouldn't expect a launch until 2016, if it happens at all (which is not certain yet). NCSoft isn't going to hand someone a DVD with a "setup.exe" that they can double-click to start the server. Once the transfer of the server actually happens, it will take months to get it operational and ready for the earliest alpha testers.
COH isn't going to be under the Christmas tree, this year or next.
Hopefully It's not THAT bad. Having a server image means it's already installed and was running. They may even be able to run this on a virtual server instead of a physical one. The game had a front-end split bouncing users between 1 account server (authentication), 1 map server and multiple game server. It's likely there was also a back-end split probably to have the database centralized. If they have images for both (or all 3) of those servers, it will take maybe a month of dedicated effort to get it all up and running. You can bet it will be a dedicated effort.
16. When one registers their new account, is it going to be hero only and one would need to purchase a Villain code and a Praetorian code or will it just be all three? Also will key codes from any old CoH packages still work? I have some of my coh boxes and codes still floating around.
Speaking as a former service tech, I doubt restoring the servers will take that long. We use disk images for a reason - restoring a system from scratch can take days and customers don't like being out of service for even an hour, let alone a week. With a good disk image we can have a system up and running again in a few hours.
The more difficult bits will be writing the new code to handle accounts, etc. How long that takes will depend on the people involved and how much time they have. If it were me, I would have started working on it months ago - as soon as the deal looking like a reasonable possibility. Don't forget that our new devs aren't just doing this as a business - they're fans too and want this game to return just as much as we do.
All that said, speculation really doesn't do us any good - there are just too many variables involved. The game will be up when it's up, but it won't take a year. The best thing we can do is give them time and our support.
I guess a lot depends on what the image looks like - is it the image of the final with all servers or is it each seperate server. How quickly could the server be running again - honestly hardware wise in a week or less - an all nighter could likely get it up in one day. What I would do after that is to immediately proceed into an open Beta period.
Then while it is being play tested you write the interface and launcher and build the accounting system. This does a lot of good things - gets interest back - gets players flooding in - free advertising and maybe sponsors! Once the game is stable and running fine and all is in place a full Pre-Launch day and account purchasing. After the short Pre-Launch - you fire it up for production. I personally see a timeline of closing the deal to Beta testing - 1 week to 1 month. Then a 3-4 month period while accounting is being set.
I would say full production in 3-4 months roughly. Server images are not hard to load - that is what they were made to do. Setting up a long term infrastructure takes longer but that is why you have a Beta period to work out the bugs.
Free accounts had access to Villains before. I was never anything but F2P, with the exception of purchasing my Kheldian unlocks. Why would we start with less, on that?
Speaking as a former service tech, I doubt restoring the servers will take that long. We use disk images for a reason - restoring a system from scratch can take days and customers don't like being out of service for even an hour, let alone a week. With a good disk image we can have a system up and running again in a few hours.You are right in that server restoration should not take long, the main thing will be creating the accounting system.
The more difficult bits will be writing the new code to handle accounts, etc. How long that takes will depend on the people involved and how much time they have. If it were me, I would have started working on it months ago - as soon as the deal looking like a reasonable possibility. Don't forget that our new devs aren't just doing this as a business - they're fans too and want this game to return just as much as we do.
All that said, speculation really doesn't do us any good - there are just too many variables involved. The game will be up when it's up, but it won't take a year. The best thing we can do is give them time and our support.
Problem being that you'd actually need the account system finished first, or else how could all these eager beta testers log in? ;)
Such a pain am I, hehe.
But still a nice list of ideas anyway.
Personally, my biggest concern is that no one really cares enough over at NCSoft to allow this to pick up enough steam for it to really happen. I am hoping against hope that they are not just politely stringing Nate & crew along (as he even mentioned they might be in his original post) with no real intent of letting anything happen, rather just hoping we'll all give up and move on quietly if they make us wait long enough.
With today's technology instead of 2004's technology, I'd say one server is enough. Maybe two if people are REALLY needing "server flavor wars" :)
Strawberry!!
No! Blueberry!
No! Bacon!!!
We need 3.
I was probably one of the only people that played on Victory.
Don't forget pie and coffee.
Victory was actually my home!
Mine too! I spent many hours patrolling the streets mostly alone there. Especially being a New Zealander so in a quiet time zone anyway.
So...Likely when I was on most of the time. Hah.
Victory was actually my home!
Victory was actually my home!My first characters were on Victory, but by the end of 2004 i rarely played there having shifted to Guardian and later on to Champion. However, my original MA/SR, Seiben (inspired by the Tuned androids from GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita), was still occasionally in play up until shutdown. Seiben had one of my favorite outfits, using the tails jacket and a red scarf, that could no longer be recreated elsewhere.
Virtue from start to finish. I'm an RPer and virtue's community was AMAZING for roleplayers.The other servers were a little less impressive from an RP perspective. i was PUGing on Champion one time running some Croatoa missions and a teammate and i started doing some in character banter during missions and one of the other teammates was initially confused as hell by it and then after it was explained kept complaining about how weird it was for people to chat in character. It may or may not have been the same team that included a Blaster with Whirlwind always running who would charge into each new spawn and scatter them everywhere and then get faceplanted more often than not. Sort of annoying, but also sort of hilarious.
Virtue was my main server, although I spent time on a number of other server!
I guess a lot depends on what the image looks like - is it the image of the final with all servers or is it each seperate server. How quickly could the server be running again - honestly hardware wise in a week or less - an all nighter could likely get it up in one day. What I would do after that is to immediately proceed into an open Beta period.
Then while it is being play tested you write the interface and launcher and build the accounting system. This does a lot of good things - gets interest back - gets players flooding in - free advertising and maybe sponsors! Once the game is stable and running fine and all is in place a full Pre-Launch day and account purchasing. After the short Pre-Launch - you fire it up for production. I personally see a timeline of closing the deal to Beta testing - 1 week to 1 month. Then a 3-4 month period while accounting is being set.
I would say full production in 3-4 months roughly. Server images are not hard to load - that is what they were made to do. Setting up a long term infrastructure takes longer but that is why you have a Beta period to work out the bugs.
Justice was my home. :)
Also, the community college where I work is throwing a costume contest for Halloween.
It hit me hard inside when I saw those words yesterday. :(
Actually, what got me last night was watching the Peanuts Halloween special with the kids and hearing Charlie Brown say "I got a rock..." The Halloween event was always my favorite. :(
Started on Infinity, because it sounded cool.
Moved to Champion later, when I figured out it was actually in my time zone. Did over a third of my gaming there.
Finally moved to Freedom when players were starting to getting scarcer, and I really got into pugging.
Spent most of the time in the last few months hanging out in Dark Astoria and running incarnate missions.
Anyone out there remember Kid Shockwave, my elec/en/elec blaster?
I played on Virtue, Freedom and Exalted occasionally.
In CoH you can be - an Angel healing and buffing lower level players without being in their team. You can pull villians away from your teammates, you can complete quests to try and stop evil and to have an outcome based on decisions you made. There is a certain pureness to the game - that nothing else comes close to. In many ways it calls to the positive side of people instead of rewarding the negative.
I played on Virtue, Freedom and Exalted occasionally.
I started on Champion but the huge nerf bat of ED saw our 50 person SG drop to 3, then 2 and finally me. So I left for Virtue about a year after ED.
When people discuss the reason for the death of CoH - the ED massacre is among one of the huge reasons. I will agree, switching to IO's was a good idea but to swing the nerf hammer without a solid concrete system ready to take its place was a foolish idea. I know personally of over 40 people who left.
I tried to get some to try it after the IO system was in place and they just said - they like to nerf too much - not coming back. It really was soul destroying at the time and after a month our so - I took a 3 month break myself - still paid just had to get away from the Jack Emmert style of communication.
I have been playing several other games lately and you know what I found missing? The other games have no soul. There is little reward for being heroic. In fact most games it is far more rewarding to kill others, destroy the things they have built and to generally be a complete asshat. I don't engage in the taunting or other nonsense and don't care if the other person does, but it lacks depth. No benefit for being kind or for helping someone else. The games are a shallow reflection of our society.
In CoH you can be - an Angel healing and buffing lower level players without being in their team. You can pull villians away from your teammates, you can complete quests to try and stop evil and to have an outcome based on decisions you made. There is a certain pureness to the game - that nothing else comes close to. In many ways it calls to the positive side of people instead of rewarding the negative.
I played on Virtue, Freedom and Exalted occasionally.
I started on Champion but the huge nerf bat of ED saw our 50 person SG drop to 3, then 2 and finally me. So I left for Virtue about a year after ED.
When people discuss the reason for the death of CoH - the ED massacre is among one of the huge reasons. I will agree, switching to IO's was a good idea but to swing the nerf hammer without a solid concrete system ready to take its place was a foolish idea. I know personally of over 40 people who left.
I tried to get some to try it after the IO system was in place and they just said - they like to nerf too much - not coming back. It really was soul destroying at the time and after a month our so - I took a 3 month break myself - still paid just had to get away from the Jack Emmert style of communication.
I played on Virtue, Freedom and Exalted occasionally.
I started on Champion but the huge nerf bat of ED saw our 50 person SG drop to 3, then 2 and finally me. So I left for Virtue about a year after ED.
ED was necessary and it was POORLY implemented. There were other factors that were implemented at the same time, very upsetting changes. Controllers couldn't affect as many foes in a spawn. Tanks couldn't taunt as many foes which really got teammates killed. If that wasn't enough the duration of these effects was reduced and the recharge times were lengthened.
In the long run, I can go along with making the changes. I still believe that if duration of mezzes of controllers were reduced, they would figure out that a crap ton enemies would soon be all over them. Tanks that could taunt big piles in hazard zones would taunt away, but the risk/reward and defense/resistances versus the extra damage would require teammates to bail them out of situations where that tank's damage wasn't enough to prevail before endurance ran out. I never like that Fire Tanks could taunt all of Crey's Folly and come out unscathed against large numbers.
Duration of effect, with recharge time, and number effected, I always thought 2 out of 3 would be plenty of nerf.
Or they could have made the taunt power affect a greater amount of foes - but reduced your attack power recharge speed.
Now you can take a lot of aggro but are unlikely to win alone. With the help of your TEAM - you will be fine. A good balance if you want to take taunt as an aggro relief.
ED was necessary. IOs were fantastic.
The problem was that ED should NOT have been pushed out until the IO system was ready.
ED was necessary for PvP, which turned out to be unnecessary in the long run.
IOs were great.
The way ED was promoted was an insult to the intelligence of the player base. "We're going to give you more slotting options by taking away some of your slotting options!"
ED was necessary and it was POORLY implemented. There were other factors that were implemented at the same time, very upsetting changes. Controllers couldn't affect as many foes in a spawn. Tanks couldn't taunt as many foes which really got teammates killed. If that wasn't enough the duration of these effects was reduced and the recharge times were lengthened.While it's not completely accurate back then i was fond of saying "If the Devs are given two different options that could be used to nerf a power set to bring it more in line with the other sets instead of choosing one or the other they'd just do both at once." That's not completely true, but in some cases i really think it was pretty accurate. To be fair it also happened at a time when they still didn't have a really good understanding of how combat worked from a mechanical and numerical standpoint.
In the long run, I can go along with making the changes. I still believe that if duration of mezzes of controllers were reduced, they would figure out that a crap ton enemies would soon be all over them. Tanks that could taunt big piles in hazard zones would taunt away, but the risk/reward and defense/resistances versus the extra damage would require teammates to bail them out of situations where that tank's damage wasn't enough to prevail before endurance ran out. I never like that Fire Tanks could taunt all of Crey's Folly and come out unscathed against large numbers.
Duration of effect, with recharge time, and number effected, I always thought 2 out of 3 would be plenty of nerf.
ED was necessary for PvP, which turned out to be unnecessary in the long run.ED was at least as necessary for the PvE game in my opinion. Although in my opinion something that resembled more of a diminishing returns slope would've been preferred to the "1) good, 2) good, 3) almost as good, 4+) why did you even bother?" cliff we received.
IOs were great.
The way ED was promoted was an insult to the intelligence of the player base. "We're going to give you more slotting options by taking away some of your slotting options!"
ED...But it was so unintentionally apt.
I just didn't care for the acronym...
ED was at least as necessary for the PvE game in my opinion.
ED was at least as necessary for the PvE game in my opinion. Although in my opinion something that resembled more of a diminishing returns slope would've been preferred to the "1) good, 2) good, 3) almost as good, 4+) why did you even bother?" cliff we received.
Issue with ED even after the fact there was no point in slotting anything in 99% of the powers other than acc/rch/damg/end
ED...I joined after ED (I know it was after CoV came on as I bought the dual pack at wallyworld), so I have no feelings about the ED nerf hammer comin down. I DO remember that I thought this "ED" guy must be a real asshat as everyone seemed to hate him.
I just didn't care for the acronym...
How do you figure?
How do you figure?Mostly because it did help reduce the rather extreme variation in effective power level among builds and powersets, and balance is important even in PvE. Honestly i don't have the inclination to retread the ground that was covered years ago in discussing why ED was a good idea, regardless of how well it was initially presented and implemented, and i'm not sure where to find the links at this point. Actually blacksly already covered the basics fairly well, so i'll defer to their post.
All MMO's have a system like ED in place. Unless CoH is your first MMO (Which I know for some it is) there is no reason to really be all THAT surprised about ED when they added it. It was a bit of a strange diminished returns system but that's all it was.
All MMO's have a system like ED in place. Unless CoH is your first MMO (Which I know for some it is) there is no reason to really be all THAT surprised about ED when they added it. It was a bit of a strange diminished returns system but that's all it was.
ED wasn't the problem, the lies were the problem.
I've been a game designer, coding for a UO shard for a lot of years, and I can tell you the situation from the point of view of the developers:
They designed a game, tried to balance it, with a reasonable balance between risk, reward, and fun. The amount of work that you have to do before players start really testing it, is huge. By the time that you really get a good idea of how things work out, a lot of stuff has been built and used by a lot of players. So, you kind of have to guess how the game will play out, how things will balance, etc.
This being pretty far back in MMORPG history, they didn't have all that many examples to look at, so they had to guess. Guess how players will play, guess how players will select powers and slot them and use (or not use) them (remember how long it took them to fix Fear powers, and I think that they've only fixed one Phase power).
Now, a year or more into the game, they see that.... they guess well on some things, and not so well on others. The game is doing okay, but there are some clear balance issues. Basically, they did not anticipate, or want, Tanks herding 200 Wolves and jumping into Dumpsters. Leaving aside the aggro and target caps that they put in, they never wanted Tanks to be able to do that, defensively. Or Blasters to 1-shot most mobs by 6-slotting with Damage, 6-slotting Hasten, Aim, and Build-Up, and always being at the damage cap. So, the game was not playing the way that they thought was good.
Now, at this point, they absolutely have to change some things. Some options are:
1: Their own vision of how the game plays. Frankly, they did this to some degree, but I agree with them that accepting Tanks who can go AFK in the middle of 100 even-con mobs is not acceptable game balance.
2: Some major game design changes, such as the more mobs are attacking you, the more likely they are to hit you (you can dodge a couple of guys shooting at you, but you can't dodge 100 with the same level of ability), or some other way to limit defenses. And then they'd have to do something about the damage-capped Blasters. And about Controllers. And about... forget it. Too many changes, and you get back to the starting problem: you're guessing how things will work.
3: Powerset balances. This actually did happen, it was called the GDN (Global Defense Nerf). I agreed with it also, and you can see that even now with just SOs, characters can still be built to play at +6/x2 (maybe even higher), and IMO that is clearly enough defense considering how they wanted the game to play.
4: Slotting balances, otherwise known as ED. I don't really agree with the "drop off a cliff" curve that they used, but the concept is the best thing that they could have done, for one simple reason: it forced the players to slot powers more like the Devs expected the powers to be slotted when they balanced them. Given that the design and balance of the powers took months if not years, and it would take months if not years to rebalance powers so that the game plays with more balance in risk-reward-fun, and it takes a lot less time to put in ED, clearly some form of ED was the best solution.
I know that players at the time were all like "But why do we have to play the game the way YOU want us to play it!!", but that misses a major point: The reason that you have to play the game the way the Devs envision it, or at least be strongly influenced to play it, is because that's how the Devs designed the game and balanced the NPC threat, the rewards, the missions, etc. ED is a lot smaller change than re-balancing everything else around the realization that min-maxing with 5-6 Damage SOs, or Resist SOs (with Stamina 6-slotted). The game at the time was unbalanced, and even most of the players who complained about the solution at least were willing to admit the problem. What they did not see was that from the Dev side, putting in the solutions that the players wanted were more of a gamble, and a lot more work. It didn't make sense for them to do a lot of extra work with less expectation of a successful balancing adjustment, when they could put in the relatively-simple ED.
And if they had explained this clearly at the time, I think that it would have ended up pretty much a non-issue.
They probably should have just been honest that they didn't want people ignoring all the buff sets, debuff sets and CC because they were capping defense and only using kins and empaths, or only using damage enhancements or spending all day raiding hamidon. The devs, from what someone told me, wanted people to experiment more instead of just building only a very small portion of potential character combinations. If they were more honest that they felt people were ignoring all the options and they were putting ED in to make people try other things, well.....
I don't deny any of that, but considering this is a superhero game and the idea is to be powerful I'd ask why they couldn't have done any or all of the following instead:
1) Don't change the existing villain difficulty, but make them worth less XP
2) Make spawn groups bigger
3) Make newer villain groups tougher and/or more accurate
4) Buff the under-performing sets
I can see the reasons behind ED, mechanically speaking. But business-wise I didn't like being treated like an idiot, and from an RPG perspective I didn't like to see superheroes drained of their powers for no reason besides they were too super.
1: That doesn't address the BALANCE issue between the uber min-maxed characters and the normal ones. Believe me, some characters back then were pretty weak to play with. Making mobs worth less XP would hurt everyone, but the min-max builds would survive it a lot better than the average builds.
2: That also doesn't address the same issue. Make spawns bigger and the weak-average characters get hurt, while the uber characters just say "thank you for giving me more mobs to herd to the Blaster who will Inferno them in one shot".
3: They certainly could have added mobs like Cimerorans, but it leaves those mobs with hurting the weak characters more. It also still allows characters to avoid the newer mobs and focus on killing Praetorians, Nemesis, or whatever they already could handle.
You see, the problem with solutions 1-3 is that not all characters were of the group that was so powerful that it was playing the game in ways that the Devs did not wish to see. A lot of characters were not doing that, and back then a lot of sets were pretty weak, for whatever reasons. Since then, your solution #4 has been implemented a lot, but back then SR sucked, Ice Armor did also, I think that Dark Armor was still in the suck category, most Blasters were terrible except when used on herding teams (after the Smoke Grenade fix), etc. You couldn't implement solutions to just make the mobs harder, or you would hurt the newbie players more than the min-maxing power gamers.
Now, #4 is certainly something to do. But it basically ignores the problem, because it doesn't do anything about the overpowered characters herding and nuking 200 mobs at a time. So it's a good point, but it's a completely different issue from the balance problem between the min-maxed character and the average-weak ones. At the time, some version of ED seemed like the best solution. I don't think too many players, even those with game design experience, agreed too much with the exact type of diminishing returns used, and nobody liked how it was described and justified by the Devs, but it was not overall too bad a solution. And I can even get behind releasing it while still working on the other part of the balance (adding IOs), because of how long it took to create the IO system.
1) People will always find a way to min/max. That's a game within a game to some players. And how one person min/maxes does not impact another player's PvE experience1) ED reduced the difference in performance between min/maxed and average characters; the other solution that comes to mind would've been drastically reducing enhancement values. And yes, unless everyone solos having certain character builds' performance be many times greater than another player's does affect PvE experience on several levels.
2) Fair point, but so could multiple tanks and multiple blasters after ED.
3) That goes back to idea #1. Sure they could go back, but get slower advancement.
1) ED reduced the difference in performance between min/maxed and average characters; the other solution that comes to mind would've been drastically reducing enhancement values. And yes, unless everyone solos having certain character builds' performance be many times greater than another player's does affect PvE experience on several levels.
2) By a greatly reduced margin.
3) Sort of sabotages the whole superheroic game experience. Reducing the difference between optimal and average builds was a much better solution overall.
ED was an example of how to go about doing the right thing the wrong way. In the end i think it greatly improved the game despite being poorly handled in the beginning. i was more irritated that only Controllers received any compensation for the multiple pet nerf. The "well Controllers are a pet class and Defender's aren't" justification always sounded like bullshit to me since Controllers were always more about control than pets and not every set even had pets. And while i'm at it i could also go into everything wrong with the design of Petrifying Gaze even before it also got hit with the global control nerf. Seriously, even at shutdown it was still the overall worst primary set power from a performance standpoint. :P
And while i'm at it i could also go into everything wrong with the design of Petrifying Gaze even before it also got hit with the global control nerf. Seriously, even at shutdown it was still the overall worst primary set power from a performance standpoint. :P
Oh the pre-GDF/ED nerf days, when our all Defender SG strongly suggested each teammate take recall friend so that the most number of Fluffies could be teleported up to the next floor. I don't see anything over-powered at all to have half a dozen fluffies running around.i was on a team fighting Jurrassik before ED (the instanced Monster version, not the open world GM), and my five Fluffies locked him down with no other sources of holds on the team. Dark Miasma with 4-5 Fluffies in tow was sometimes a little broken.
Heh, maybe (I actually doubt it, I think we can find some worse stuff if we really look hard), but even if so, it's only because Poison was only available as a secondary set. Because Paralytic Poison was the exact same power, but took longer to activate.Ah, i only played Poison a little bit, but it seems odd to put an ST hold with no other secondary effects of any kind in a buff/debuff set. Especially when every single control set had some sort of damage and/or debuff secondary effect in their ST holds.
Im still flabbergasted that with the IO system wherein you can easily shore up weaknesses and become extremely overpowered AND the Incarnate abililties..
people are still talking about ED like it just happened.. just mindblowing to me..
LOL I was reading this and thinking something similar. Didn't IOs and particularly sets pretty much reverse everything ED did? I was never one to worry much about the exact numbers (maybe I should have), but it seemed to me that a character loaded up with sets was miles more powerful than one with SOs.
The biggest problems with ED/GDN were:
1. Bigger impact on some archtypes than others - tankers got hit the most. While I could see a slight reduction in defense as needed,
the change was way too hamfisted. And I never could see why they thought reducing my tanker's DPS was a good thing, he already hit like
a limp noodle before the change.
2. Neither change should have been made before the introduction of IO sets. When you see your primary character gutted, there isn't much incentive to keep playing. I think the introduction of CoV hid the fact that they lost a lot of good players. And definitely a lot of the good will of the player base.
3. I didn't like that the devs never recognized that messing with tankers PRIMARY powerset was of more significance than with defense sets on other archtypes. Even pvp was a joke in beta, I spent more time retoggling my defenses than actually fighting. Never tried pvp afterwords on live.
Im still flabbergasted that with the IO system wherein you can easily shore up weaknesses and become extremely overpowered AND the Incarnate abililties..
people are still talking about ED like it just happened.. just mindblowing to me..
Anyway... It's my opinion that post Invention System the game's enhancement system was pretty close to ideal in how it worked, although if i was doing a remake i'd probably make TOs, DOs and SOs function more like IOs and just make it so they never get completely outleveled. No matter how far above the enhancement's level a character is it still provides the minimum boost instead of zeroing out.
It's more of the way it was presented and promoted that still brings this topic up.
We all know ED was a while back and we moved on. Emmert's migration helped.
The only part of ED I understood the griping about, was how it was communicated. I started just before Issue 3. When ED hit, neither myself nor my wife really felt any effect. To me, even when it first happened, it seemed that the only people seriously impacted, were min/max players. With the exception of during my first month, all of my characters were already using ED slotting. When ED happened, it had no perceptible impact on me or my playing. For people who were slotting everything for damage, I'm sure it was a shock to lose so much power, but I personally don't see how much fun it could have been before. Most of the game must have been like playing on easy mode. I can see how that would be fun once I a while, but to me, it would just get monotonous.
To each their own I guess. One of the best things to come out of ED, was the hilarity of the forums. It kept me endlessly entertained. 😊the fact that it still engenders such strong feelings in people this long after it all happened, shows how invested people were in the game.
To those that say that other people being immensely overpowered didn't affect other people's gameplay, that really wasn't true. The min/maxers would often refuse to group with people that didn't also min/max, or just refuse to group in general because they didn't need the help. With a limited number of spawns in the world, that often meant that if you weren't one of the min/max farmers, there wasn't anything to fight outside of missions. I personally enjoy missions a lot more than farming random villains in a zone, but variety of options is good.
The advent of the Architect missions moved all of the zone farmers into the specifically designed farm missions in Architect, so that you could actually fight outdoor enemies even if there were no ED, because all the min/maxers would be in the min/maxed Architect farming missions instead. I'd hate to see ED undone, though, because the IO sets really add a lot of neat options to the game, and without ED there probably would be little incentive to use most of the sets (I admit to possibly being wrong about this, some of those sets have fantastic bonuses).
Put me down as another one who didn't get hurt by ED. I was just too ignorant about how the game worked to even know things like "1 acc + 5 dam ftw!". So ED didn't feel any different to me.
I did know about the way Jack handled it though and noticed the game changed in a more positive direction (for me) after he left. He was horrible at communicating with the players and I never cared for his attitude of "a right way to play the game" based upon some story he told about being on an airplane or something.
ED was by far more damaging to my Blasters. The 1 ACC + 5 Damage really helped you survive. What people seem to be forgetting is that the IO system was to replace the 1x5 style of slotting.
Not having the new system in place when you axed the other system and then to tell people - oh nothing is different - this helps you! Was a load of codswallop. We can do math and the affect on tanks and blasters was very apparent.
ED was by far more damaging to my Blasters. The 1 ACC + 5 Damage really helped you survive. What people seem to be forgetting is that the IO system was to replace the 1x5 style of slotting.
Not having the new system in place when you axed the other system and then to tell people - oh nothing is different - this helps you! Was a load of codswallop. We can do math and the affect on tanks and blasters was very apparent.
Dev communication was the only weakness of early CoH, I think that it got better later though? I didn't pay a lot of attention to the official forums back then, honestly.
We even saw this kind of behavior, slightly, in the incarnate trials, some players would try to keep others out of leagues based on how high their level shift was. Even in incarnate trials that certainly didn't need everyone to be +3 including the BAF and LAMBDA trials. It did't get wide spread, thank god, but if it did, CoH would have really been doomed for it, because it creates the destructive catch 22 of "can't get +3 because everyone wants me to have +3 to do the things that need to be done to get +3 in the first place".
This happened on Infinity, I can't remember their name but there was someone on there "blacklisting" people if they didn't do good enough in Incarnate trials .That and there was an active pvp community on Freedom. Is the reason why my small group of friends and me left the server.
I asked around before I left and apparently they was with the "in crowd" on Infinity. So they had the ability to blacklist people apparently.
I never considered myself a min/maxer but I was a hardcore farmer. Though I had separate alts for separate things. I had my farming characters that I'd farm with. Then all my other characters I'd team with. Then I had my GM characters that I'd farm GMs with. My TF characters that I'd solo TFs with ect....
Thank God I never got into the mind set of my way is the best way.
This happened on Infinity, I can't remember their name but there was someone on there "blacklisting" people if they didn't do good enough in Incarnate trials .That and there was an active pvp community on Freedom. Is the reason why my small group of friends and me left the server.
I asked around before I left and apparently they was with the "in crowd" on Infinity. So they had the ability to blacklist people apparently.
I never considered myself a min/maxer but I was a hardcore farmer. Though I had separate alts for separate things. I had my farming characters that I'd farm with. Then all my other characters I'd team with. Then I had my GM characters that I'd farm GMs with. My TF characters that I'd solo TFs with ect....
Thank God I never got into the mind set of my way is the best way.
I didn't mind ED hitting at all.I was so far away from the min/max optimal builds for most of my characters it wasn't funny. I mean, I had Stamina on maybe 5 of the hundred or so characters I had. Up until they made the fitness pool inherent. I put End Redux enhancements in my powers to help offset the lack of Stamina. Even after Stamina was inherent, I rarely actually added any slots to it.
My first character was a Dark/Dark Defender (the original iteration of "The Sundown Man"), and in the blast set, I was typically running something like this:
TO: 2 Accuracy, 1 End Reduction, 3 Damage
DO and SO: 1 Accuracy, 1 End Reduction, 4 Damage
And I swear, I lost track of how many times I was told I was 'doing it wrong'. Yeah... because I hadn't super-optimized my build by doing the same exact cookie-cutter plan that other people did, how dare I have fun? No, no one actually said the last bit, but a few pick-up groups I was in seemed to be full of full-of-themself-asshats who took great offense at the fact that we didn't mow through a group of bad guys that second or two quicker than we would have if I had "optimized". Of course, I was the sole healer in the group, and when I threatened to leave, they shut up really quickly.
Needless to say, I loved ED and IOs.
We even saw this kind of behavior, slightly, in the incarnate trials, some players would try to keep others out of leagues based on how high their level shift was. Even in incarnate trials that certainly didn't need everyone to be +3 including the BAF and LAMBDA trials. It did't get wide spread, thank god, but if it did, CoH would have really been doomed for it, because it creates the destructive catch 22 of "can't get +3 because everyone wants me to have +3 to do the things that need to be done to get +3 in the first place".
We even saw this kind of behavior, slightly, in the incarnate trials, some players would try to keep others out of leagues based on how high their level shift was. Even in incarnate trials that certainly didn't need everyone to be +3 including the BAF and LAMBDA trials. It did't get wide spread, thank god, but if it did, CoH would have really been doomed for it, because it creates the destructive catch 22 of "can't get +3 because everyone wants me to have +3 to do the things that need to be done to get +3 in the first place".
My SG was usually pretty good about helping others in the SG (even occasionally auditioning new guys into our stuff if we wanted an 8th for TFs) but when the incarnate stuff came out, it was hard getting all your alts through them to get +3 on everything so a lot of us got left along the way. They still went out of their way to make it a SG run and would even schedule days where one or two of us were underpowered (+1 to +2) so long as we all knew what to do. That's the joy of being part of a decent SG I guess.
I really felt for those soloin slobs out there; thank gawd they added the chance to buy with inf your alpha slot. Does anyone know if it was possible to solo grind out the other slots? Would be good to know before the game comes back (hopefully).
I was definitely one of those poor slobs. Unfortunately, any SG (on Victory) I joined seemed to fall apart after just a few weeks, and many of the established ones were not very "casual-friendly". The only two characters with whom I had any success in the incarnate content were a fire/fire tank and a warshade. Which is funny, because I was very much a blaster junky. :P
For me, City of Heroes was the superheroine life I can't have in real life because if I try to jump a cliff tonight and fly like Jenn Space ...that probably will be my last message on this board! XDDDD
Heh, yeah.
I can't tell you how many times I just stepped off the edge of a skyscraper and then kicked on Flight
moments before hitting the ground. And every time, in my head (usually), there was a big Technicolor
ZOOOOM!!!!!!
That's funny, mostly cause I often did the same thing! ;D
There were times when I wished for cartoony (60's Batman TV Show style) splash FX, "Pow!" or "Bam!" on the knockout punch.
and of course FREEM!
Im still flabbergasted that with the IO system wherein you can easily shore up weaknesses and become extremely overpowered AND the Incarnate abililties..
people are still talking about ED like it just happened.. just mindblowing to me..
and of course FREEM!
I really felt for those soloin slobs out there; thank gawd they added the chance to buy with inf your alpha slot. Does anyone know if it was possible to solo grind out the other slots? Would be good to know before the game comes back (hopefully).It was possible to solo and advance in the incarnate slots. Well, to a point. They hadn't implemented the Hybrid path for solo-ers before the shut-down notice. New Dark Astoria and the MOT story line was the Solo-ers area for Incarnating. I spent a lot of my time there with my Incarnates once it was available.
You do know we have nothing better to do while waiting for the game to re-release? ;)
Seriously, for most of us who played from the start, ED was the low point. Not because of ED, but because it looked like the devs were incapable of maintaining the franchise. From IO's onward the game kept getting better, but people who didn't play in the beginning don't appreciate how much harder we had to work for everything, and how much more user friendly the game got.
I did know about the way Jack handled it though and noticed the game changed in a more positive direction (for me) after he left. He was horrible at communicating with the players and I never cared for his attitude of "a right way to play the game" based upon some story he told about being on an airplane or something.
Who's this ED fellow and why is everyone mad at him?? ED wherever you are mabye go by eddie or edward--try not to piss people off so much... ;D
Who's this ED fellow and why is everyone mad at him?? ED wherever you are mabye go by eddie or edward--try not to piss people off so much... ;D
Who's this ED fellow and why is everyone mad at him?? ED wherever you are mabye go by eddie or edward--try not to piss people off so much... ;D(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=fc04.deviantart.net%2Ffs39%2Fi%2F2008%2F334%2Ff%2F6%2FEddie_Van_Halen_1982_Tour_by_IamElvis.jpg)
Aggelakis is going to Disneyland. Be good boys, girls, robots, aliens, angels, demons, monsters, etc., etc., etc. while I'm gone! Don't let the place burn down!
(Eabrace is still around to moderate, as are Sekoia, CW, Guy, and TonyV.)
Aggelakis is going to Disneyland. Be good boys, girls, robots, aliens, angels, demons, monsters, etc., etc., etc. while I'm gone! Don't let the place burn down!
(Eabrace is still around to moderate, as are Sekoia, CW, Guy, and TonyV.)
Not to mention BIFF! ;D XDDD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC8DmmeWcZU
Well now I want to know about the airplane story.
Lamest. Story. Ever.Well now I want to know about the airplane story.
Basically Jack was on plane playing a hand held game and after umpteen attempts on a boss he beat it. and yelled and cheered and people stared. My take on it was he thought it was wonderful that he just kept grinding to beat his boss. Yeah. what fun..
Man, I remember those days! We had to Teleport uphill both from the contact to the mission door, and then back from the mission door to the contact. And they wouldn't even let you have their phone number until you completed their Mow My Lawn mission, and even then cell service was poor so we had to maneuver between Steel Canyon's superscrapers to be able to call in the mission complete. And, of course, no superhero's career was complete without being run over by the Tsoo-tsoo Train at level 20. Superheroes these days don't know how easy they have it.
Hey, You! Get Offa My Cloud!
This...this is the new Get Off My Lawn! You, my friend, wins one(1) Intarwebz! ;D
Hey, You! Get Offa My Cloud!
Coz Two's a crowd (on my cloud)
... Get offa my planet!... Get Off Of My Bridge !!! :D
Man, I remember those days! We had to Teleport uphill both from the contact to the mission door, and then back from the mission door to the contact. And they wouldn't even let you have their phone number until you completed their Mow My Lawn mission, and even then cell service was poor so we had to maneuver between Steel Canyon's superscrapers to be able to call in the mission complete. And, of course, no superhero's career was complete without being run over by the Tsoo-tsoo Train at level 20. Superheroes these days don't know how easy they have it.
Don't forget when you killed a grizzley with your 3-ring binder.
Aggelakis is going to Disneyland. Be good boys, girls, robots, aliens, angels, demons, monsters, etc., etc., etc. while I'm gone! Don't let the place burn down!
(Eabrace is still around to moderate, as are Sekoia, CW, Guy, and TonyV.)
Not so new, I think Sugoi was referring to the 1965 song ''Get Off My Cloud'' by The Stones ;) XD but still one epic one-liner! ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFVnxVDlFyA
I remember... I yelled for help, and Positron was walking by, but he said something about conning gray and kept walking. So I had to keep hitting it with the binder, and in the process I lost the keycard I had stored in there. I think it was to the vault at MAGI, but I didn't hear about anything bad being stolen from there, so it was probably okay. Then when the grizzly finally went down, I had enough XP to level up, but when I went to Ms Liberty, she refused to train me up because she wouldn't believe me when I said that the bear ate my homework.
Don't forget when you killed a grizzley with your 3-ring binder.
I thought this might be a reference to something, but all I found when I googled is a binder with a Grizzly on it: http://www.fanatics.com/catalog/product/Montana_Grizzlies_1_3-Ring_Team_Logo_Binder
Strangely enough not what I was thinking, although I did attend the U of MT. ;DU of MT in Missoula? Same here. What was ur major?
The original reference was a Bill Cosby comedy bit.
U of MT in Missoula? Same here. What was ur major?
LinguisticsWhat dahell u do with that? Does that mean you speak multiple languages?
What dahell u do with that? Does that mean you speak multiple languages?
Multiple applications including but not limited to:Dam. Cool.
Statistical or rule-based modeling of natural language from a computational perspective
The descriptive study of the effect of any and all aspects of society, including cultural norms, expectations, and context, on the way language is used, and the effects of language use on society.
The study of linguistic dialect, a sub-field of sociolinguistics.
The psychology of language is the study of the psychological and neurobiological factors that enable humans to acquire, use, comprehend and produce language.
It does NOT mean being able to speak multiple languages. Although, I can.
In Montana I've lived in the following places:
Billings
Joliet
Redlodge
Belfrey
Fromberg
Missoula
Great Falls
Havre
Belgrade
Fort Benton
White Sulfur Springs
Bridger
:o
Multiple applications including but not limited to:
Statistical or rule-based modeling of natural language from a computational perspective
The descriptive study of the effect of any and all aspects of society, including cultural norms, expectations, and context, on the way language is used, and the effects of language use on society.
The study of linguistic dialect, a sub-field of sociolinguistics.
The psychology of language is the study of the psychological and neurobiological factors that enable humans to acquire, use, comprehend and produce language.
Moving to Montana soon, gonna be a dental floss tycoon
"Just you wait, 'enry 'iggens, just you wait!"
Well I was following along, even with the obscure references, for awhile there.
Now I'm just lost . . . ???
Frank Zappa man. Get with the program.. 8)
Zappa? I don't remember seeing any Zappa references . . .
Zappa? I don't remember seeing any Zappa references . . .Any random collection of words could be a Zappa reference
Frank Zappa man. Get with the program.. 8)
May I mambo dogface to the banana patch?Yes.
And on a completely unrelated note:
Did anyone ever measure out the actual size of Paragon City?
I know that from one end of IP to the other was something like 2.5 miles,
and most of the other zones were about a mile or so across; but with the
city block placements and such, did anyone ever get a real size?
I've just had a few random thoughts lately and I started wondering how big
Paragon actually was compared to other (real-world) cities.
I think Irish Girl might have those numbers.She probably has them memorized, as well as every inch of AP.
And on a completely unrelated note:
Did anyone ever measure out the actual size of Paragon City?
I know that from one end of IP to the other was something like 2.5 miles,
and most of the other zones were about a mile or so across; but with the
city block placements and such, did anyone ever get a real size?
I've just had a few random thoughts lately and I started wondering how big
Paragon actually was compared to other (real-world) cities.
And on a completely unrelated note:
Did anyone ever measure out the actual size of Paragon City?
I know that from one end of IP to the other was something like 2.5 miles,
and most of the other zones were about a mile or so across; but with the
city block placements and such, did anyone ever get a real size?
I've just had a few random thoughts lately and I started wondering how big
Paragon actually was compared to other (real-world) cities.
The incarnate system was not in my opinion a "compromise" in this sense. It was actually the correct target to aim for. Rather than adding more "levels" to the game the Incarnate system created a way to advance through gaining powers and abilities without having to invalidate level 50 builds. Furthermore, much of that heightened ability was *only* usable in the end game content. That made it a completely optional enhancement to the game. Had the devs created (all) incarnate abilities that could be used everywhere, they would have started a chain reaction of power creep where they would have to rebalance PvE content for stronger players - but that would leave non-incarnates behind.
And it should have been possible, if they had decided it was necessary, to create 'tiers' of Incarnate content staging up from Level 50, so at the first 'level' of content you would only be able to use your Alpha ability, then at the second level your Judgement and Interface abilities could be used, then Lore and Destiny in the third level, Hybrid and Genesis at the fourth level, Mind and Vitae at the fifth, and Omega at the sixth. And this content could be set up to be soloable, as the altered Dark Astoria was, to create an individual track up through the ranks of Incarnates outside the trials that didn't drop characters into situations past what they could handle.
I was really holding out for a Halloween launch, but that's looking less likely as each day passes. *sigh*Given the way that negotiations progress with companies in Japan, China, and Korea, the fact that NCSoft has accepted proof of one of the up-front conditions they're asking for is an indicator that they are actually willing to making a deal work -- but I would not be surprised to not see the actual re-launch of the game until next October.
16. When one registers their new account, is it going to be hero only and one would need to purchase a Villain code and a Praetorian code or will it just be all three? Also will key codes from any old CoH packages still work? I have some of my coh boxes and codes still floating around.One of the last archiving steps I took before the shutdown was to go into my NCSoft account management and screenshot my account status page, so I have all of the key codes that I applied to my account over the years.
And on a completely unrelated note:is that number from the actual end of the map on one side and you on the other? The reason I ask is because, I always thought PI was bigger. IP I know is far bigger than the 1 mile number you gave. I had a mission in IP and it was over 2 miles away from what I remember.
Did anyone ever measure out the actual size of Paragon City?
I know that from one end of IP to the other was something like 2.5 miles,
and most of the other zones were about a mile or so across; but with the
city block placements and such, did anyone ever get a real size?
I've just had a few random thoughts lately and I started wondering how big
Paragon actually was compared to other (real-world) cities.
To me it doesn't matter what the server is named, or if there are multiple servers what they are named. I think I'd actually prefer it if whatever name(s) got chosen was brand new.
I do remember a lot of blasters running around with that targeting drone thing going, which apparently let them ignore slotting accuracy into powers at all. However only one secondary set had that power, and since it was "necessary" for an optimized blaster build, there were amazing amounts of completely ignored power sets amongst the min/max people. What's the point of having a dozen or whatever secondary blaster power sets, if the "one true way to play" only lets you use one of them?
I did know about the way Jack handled it though and noticed the game changed in a more positive direction (for me) after he left. He was horrible at communicating with the players and I never cared for his attitude of "a right way to play the game" based upon some story he told about being on an airplane or something.
At one time when I was measuring distances to to get to places by the train and into IP and Bricks, I discovered that Brickstown by the manual measurements of the zone and distances between the gates to Kings Row and Brickstown from the IP zone... Brickstown is partially subducted under Kings Row :pWell, the gates lead to connecting highways that aren't necessarily 100% straight lines, or all the same length. We just skip them because who wants more travel time? The in-game world map showed the connections.
Before this thread started, I used to check ihe "New Efforts" thread several times a day for news. These days, I find myself only interested in seeing if the new "The Deal's a Done Deal" kind of thread has been started yet, and new comments on "Arrow", "The Flash", "Gotham" and "Agents of SHIELD". This site's getting a lot less traffic from me than it used to. (Not that I'm blaming this thread. I figure that it helped me to see that it'll still be quite a while yet before it's done.)I don't know how much longer I can wait :(
Sooo.... I wonder if doing a deal for NCSoft is going to sound more appealing to them now that they're doing a whole bunch of layoffs....
More money in their pockets to sell a dormant title....just sayin'.... ;)
Quality use of a Ghostbusters reference, right there.
pulls power_gammers taunt finger and runs..... :)Hopes Power_Gamer never used the alias of Spleen at any time in the past. :o
Hopes Power_Gamer never used the alias of Spleen at any time in the past. :o
You hope in vain. :roll: lolAt least you were pointed the other way. :P
how can the spleen be a hero...he killed those poor people in the dinner.
He didn't kill them! They passed out from the stench, it was that horrid, is all.
The Spleen isn't THAT bad a hero...
Sadly no. The layoffs are carbine and the coh sale, which means the world to us, is chump change to NcSoft. The sale will happen...You know the longer we "wait" with the ball in their court I cant help but think that maybe...just maybe they are thinking about regurgitating the Development tools and Account data from the corporate bowels? I mean we are on month two... point five... A guy can dream and hope right? It isn't an outrageous thought.
You know the longer we "wait" with the ball in their court I cant help but think that maybe...just maybe they are thinking about regurgitating the Development tools and Account data from the corporate bowels? I mean we are on month two... point five... A guy can dream and hope right? It isn't an outrageous thought.
With NCSoft you never truly know until it happens. LOL! I honestly think the longer it takes the more helpful NCSoft will become. That may sound strange to some people but my gut feelings brought me back here so....What do you mean your gut feelings brought you back here? How do you have a gut feeling to be on a forum?
What do you mean your gut feelings brought you back here? How do you have a gut feeling to be on a forum?
I had a gut feeling once ....... but it passed .......... :roll:
You know the longer we "wait" with the ball in their court I cant help but think that maybe...just maybe they are thinking about regurgitating the Development tools and Account data from the corporate bowels? I mean we are on month two... point five... A guy can dream and hope right? It isn't an outrageous thought.
I had a gut feeling once ....... but it passed .......... :roll:
My cats give me "gifts" all the time. People love to pet long haired cats over short haired ones, but if you own a longhair you learn they barf a lot of hairballs.
I had a gut feeling once ....... but it passed .......... :roll:How'd that smell?
My cats give me "gifts" all the time. People love to pet long haired cats over short haired ones, but if you own a longhair you learn they barf a lot of hairballs.
My cats give me "gifts" all the time. People love to pet long haired cats over short haired ones, but if you own a longhair you learn they barf a lot of hairballs.
You know what makes it worse?
Longhaired tortie + dat early 80s mottled brown shag carpet. Hairball camouflage!
I had a gut feeling once ....... but it passed .......... :roll:
Trust me I know. We have 16 cats and 3 dogs. It's a long story. Good thing is always have people happy to see me when I get home from work.
What do you mean your gut feelings brought you back here? How do you have a gut feeling to be on a forum?
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v340/plushdragon/129133554740283139.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/plushdragon/media/129133554740283139.jpg.html)Someone actually attached a slice of buttered bread to the back of a cat and dropped the cat? And it worked?!?
be great new power set cat missiles
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v340/plushdragon/2b3e7738-88e1-4391-b645-0c779ebc348.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/plushdragon/media/2b3e7738-88e1-4391-b645-0c779ebc348.jpg.html)
That kitten feel sorry if the owners have hardwood floors.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com%2F5212012223039fdgdfg.jpeg)
Someone actually attached a slice of buttered bread to the back of a cat and dropped the cat? And it worked?!?(https://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a531/doctorlurkin/sVgfNk_zps2c22c2b3.jpeg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/doctorlurkin/media/sVgfNk_zps2c22c2b3.jpeg.html)
Ah. OK. Cat pictures. Clearly nothing new
How'd that smell?
Ah. OK. Cat pictures. Clearly nothing new
My thoughts exactly. I'm just trying to remain optimistic that we will all at least get a nice little info present for Christmas at this point.
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v340/plushdragon/129133554740283139.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/plushdragon/media/129133554740283139.jpg.html)
be great new power set cat missiles
(https://kzoz.s3.amazonaws.com/jeff-and-jeremy/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Cat-a-pult.jpg)
I see your catapult and raise you a machine gunI see your machine gun and raise you a jedi kitty :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z3r9X8OahA
http://imgur.com/gallery/xTk1y4c
I see your machine gun and raise you a jedi kitty :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z3r9X8OahA
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.wallpaperfo.com%2Fthumbnails%2Fdetail%2F20121108%2Fflames%2520guns%2520internet%2520cats%2520ninjas%2520animals%2520humor%2520smoke%2520unicorns%2520funny%2520rainbows%2520nyan%2520cat%2520memes%25201920x_www.wallpaperfo.com_88.jpg)
The Fly
The initial test was on his cat.
Good... the cat vanished, never to be seen again. Until the end of the novella. When at his wife's insistence he goes through the machine one more time and emerges... with the cat's head!
I'm thinking thats Andre/Dandelo there!
100 internets for you!
I never read the novel, only watched the movies. I knew the cat vanished in the original movie forever but it's never brought up, instead the doctor becomes a pacifist out of guilt for accidentally "killing" the cat. Maybe I should see about the novel but then I'd be half spoiled....
If you've seen the 1958 movie then you already know how it runs. There are some subtle differences. In the short story he's French; in the movie he's French Canadian. That sort of thing. But the movie is pretty close to the story.
Yeah thats the one I saw. I admit it was in many ways better done as a story, it wasn't as scary as the 1980s movie but the 1980s movie was all about scaring the person watching it more than it's story. What makes me feel bad about the scientist in the 1958 movie is how the scientists mind was slowly degrading from the experiment on himself, and how the half of him that transfered to the fly was killed by the spider in the end. Quite horrifying in a more subtle way than the 1980s movie.
SS3 is a blast, I've been cooping it with hubby.
Nice! Well, purchased a horror game on steam tonight. Spec Ops: The line. Been wanting to grab it for a short while :).
So I'll be getting mighty scared tonight and tomorrow after I do the various things I need to do tomorrow.
Also grabbed serious sam 3......so that'll hold me over a little while while I wait for CoH to come back or VO to update, which I think VO is updating soon to. Especially with the kickstarter up for that game.
no that game wasa game that was made to tell people who bought it that they were horrible for playing video games. one of those stupid 'deconstruction of the genera' pieces of nonsense.....errr in my opinion - i am thankful i didnt buy it.
Spec Ops the line is a horror game? I thought it was more so about the atrocities of war and blindly following orders. A great horror game out there (or demo I should say) if you are a horror lover is a game known as PT. It is a demo for the next silent hill game, and boy is it freaking creepy. I don't know where to find the download but its free.
http://www.ign.com/wikis/silent-hills/P.T._Demo_Walkthrough (http://www.ign.com/wikis/silent-hills/P.T._Demo_Walkthrough) if you want to take a peak.
Disclaimer - If you don't like creepy horror themed things, then just avoid the link. It's not bad but still screenshots of a horror game.
no that game wasa game that was made to tell people who bought it that they were horrible for playing video games. one of those stupid 'deconstruction of the genera' pieces of nonsense.....errr in my opinion - i am thankful i didnt buy it.
Time for the weekly reminder that there is no real topic to derail until we know something new?
On a further tangent, the Valiance Kickstarter is going nicely. Not a plug, or anything, just an observation. I know some people have picked a favorite, already, but I would like to see all of the projects at least make it to beta.
Time for the weekly reminder that there is no real topic to derail until we know something new?
On a further tangent, the Valiance Kickstarter is going nicely. Not a plug, or anything, just an observation. I know some people have picked a favorite, already, but I would like to see all of the projects at least make it to beta.
Spec Ops the line is a horror game? I thought it was more so about the atrocities of war and blindly following orders. A great horror game out there (or demo I should say) if you are a horror lover is a game known as PT. It is a demo for the next silent hill game, and boy is it freaking creepy. I don't know where to find the download but its free.
http://www.ign.com/wikis/silent-hills/P.T._Demo_Walkthrough (http://www.ign.com/wikis/silent-hills/P.T._Demo_Walkthrough) if you want to take a peak.
Disclaimer - If you don't like creepy horror themed things, then just avoid the link. It's not bad but still screenshots of a horror game.
no that game wasa game that was made to tell people who bought it that they were horrible for playing video games. one of those stupid 'deconstruction of the genera' pieces of nonsense.....errr in my opinion - i am thankful i didnt buy it.
I really think its more so about when you play a video game you are automatically the hero and they are automatically the villain. And anything you do is right because you are a good guy, and anything they do is bad cause they are a bad guy. Spec Op's wanted to grab a more realistic take on it. Their are consequences for your actions in war and people will be affected by the decisions you made. People will feel the loss of those you killed. The game is a bit heavy on the de-construction of genre like you said. But it was about time someone made a game that tried to captured some of the evil's of war instead of just pure glory and heroism.
Let's steer at least a little bit back on course, folks, please. :) Digression is fine, but when it's been nearly three pages, we need to get back on track. ;)
We have an Other Games subforum if you'd like to continue discussing.
But first, I just wanted to say. I hope to see all the projects go all the way threw to complete launch.
With that out of the way.... more speculation, when does everyone guestamate we'll have a new announcement?
I'm guessing somewhere around the end of December with a bread crumb "maybe" before then.
But first, I just wanted to say. I hope to see all the projects go all the way threw to complete launch.I am guessing we will hear a little bit once a month until it gets finalized, just to keep us interested. We already heard in sept and oct, so I say again in Nov and maybe a December announcement (not saying it will be up in Dec, but I can dream).
With that out of the way.... more speculation, when does everyone guestamate we'll have a new announcement?
I'm guessing somewhere around the end of December with a bread crumb "maybe" before then.
Let's steer at least a little bit back on course, folks, please. :) Digression is fine, but when it's been nearly three pages, we need to get back on track. ;)
Then get Nate to toss us some ambiguous comment so we can obsess on THAT for the next two weeks!
(like my dog trying to get at the bunny under my deck through the spaces in the deck planks)
Ooh! Ooh! I know, the theme from the Greatest American Hero!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4JCehDOy54 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4JCehDOy54)
[ontopic]It's great that they are working on getting the game back.[/ontopic]
Let's steer at least a little bit back on course, folks, please. :) Digression is fine, but when it's been nearly three pages, we need to get back on track. ;)
On topic! Right! I can *DO* On Topic! On topicy topic of topicness!
So how about that heated politcal subje....No....I mean...Wait...That's not on topic...
Toooopiiiiiii....Vin...Boats.....Sports Cars......Picnics..... Jack of Irons in a TuTu....
COH!
There it is. Found it. Whoo.
Hmm... toon idea... Derail Topic: Beam Rifle/Mental?
I used my mids to design builds based on Kirito and Asuna from sword art online.
Is that kind of like Homer Simpson eating the dirt beneath a stadium when he was trying to quit beer?
If so... /points finger: "Get behind me, Satan!"
Spoiler for Hidden:
Anyone feel like a movie?
Spoiler for Hidden:
Anyone feel like a movie?
Just to pay lip service to the topic, if Nate could give us a quick, "Hey, so keep the faith! No news is good news," it would settle a lot of frayed nerves. I mean, not mine. I have beer and [substitute MMO] to get me by, but not everyone is as blase. :)I saw this on a CoH FB page a week or so ago and posted it in the other thread. Seems to be exactly what you are looking for.
I am guessing we will hear a little bit once a month until it gets finalized, just to keep us interested. We already heard in sept and oct, so I say again in Nov and maybe a December announcement (not saying it will be up in Dec, but I can dream).December announcement or maybe even a launch just in time for an extended winter event :D
Excellent! Thanks for posting!Spoiler for Hidden:
Anyone feel like a movie?
Spoiler for Hidden:
Anyone feel like a movie?
It wasn't a very good summer for movies this year.
When it was live I ran quite a few of these. The reward of KB to KD IO was worth it.
You said it sister. Bonfire, Tornado, that Peacebringer thing that pissed me off everytime.
I still keep thinking that it's usually only bad players that really cause any counter productive scattering. But I never really scattered enemies willingly, it really depended on the situation whether I launched a tornado or not.
December announcement or maybe even a launch just in time for an extended winter event :DI think you're being optimistic by at least 12 months. City of Heroes is not going to be under the Christmas Tree for 2014. If it were, we'd already know about it.
Anyone feel like a movie?
I think you're being optimistic by at least 12 months. City of Heroes is not going to be under the Christmas Tree for 2014. If it were, we'd already know about it.That's kind of what I'm thinking - hopefully it'll be a Christmas present for 2015.
This is going to be a long, long process, and the next piece of news is not going to be an announcement telling us to log in. Settle down, dial back your expectation accept that it's probably going to be this time next year before anything concrete comes to pass.
Just one question. Are the lights dim because the movie is already playing?
If so, thanks for the invite after the shows already going. :)
Well, if she invited you early, you might eat all her popcorn! She's not daft! :p
Hi all
Been a long time since my last visit here, when the announcement was released... would anyone be kind enough to make me a summary and avoid me to read more than 190 thread pages and posts pls?
More importantly, he might steal all the hot dogs and Dibs!
Excellent idea, Ankhammon!
Its a waiting game...
...and another two hundred pages go by. I remember people in the other topic saying that they hoped the game would come back by a certain number of pages.At the current average rate of page growth for this thread...add another year onto current efforts...page 1200?
Is that theater selling Enriche?
Selling Enriche?All Hail the Emperor! :)
Pfff! Our Illustrious Overseer of All That Is Good, Emperor Cole, provides Enriche free to all of his loyal subjects and those who see the enlightenment of his ways.
Its a waiting game...
*tries to farm waiting game... faceplants*if you have 2 orange I can give ya another one.
Anyone got a wakie?
*tries to farm waiting game... faceplants*
Anyone got a wakie?
Selling Enriche?
Pfff! Our Illustrious Overseer of All That Is Good, Emperor Cole, provides Enriche free to all of his loyal subjects and those who see the enlightenment of his ways.
Hmm... toon idea... Derail Tropic: Beam Rifle/Fire Blaster? Derail Topic: Beam Rifle/Mental?Played around with a build like that on test or beta when mental became an option I was inspired by Sakurai and the other Esper from Gantz Manga didn't get to far with that one sadly
Played around with a build like that on test or beta when mental became an option I was inspired by Sakurai and the other Esper from Gantz Manga didn't get to far with that one sadly
Ive not been following developments since Sept. Any news or are things steady as she goes?
So it continues to be "No news is good news"?
with dashes of creeping progress
with dashes of creeping progress
I would say - steady progress with so far no setbacks.that's cool to know the deal is still going forward, also I find good news that it would take 90 days or so for the accounting and the launcher :)
I really do believe once the wheeling and dealing is done the point to start will be very short maybe 90 days or so as the setup accounting and perhaps build a launcher.
I would say - steady progress with so far no setbacks.
I really do believe once the wheeling and dealing is done the point to start will be very short maybe 90 days or so as the setup accounting and perhaps build a launcher.
Sure would be sweet to be playing by Christmas though. . . *Sigh*
I'm betting we will get a bit of each holiday event when the game relaunches as a welcome gift for faithfully waiting. :roll:Awesome idea 8)
I'm betting we will get a bit of each holiday event when the game relaunches as a welcome gift for faithfully waiting. :roll:
I'm betting we will get a bit of each holiday event when the game relaunches as a welcome gift for faithfully waiting. :roll:
When the game comes back, I'm making my own holiday event! I'm taking a week off work! :p
Well, since I'm already retired (since about 6 months before the sunset notification) I'll have to top your week off of work and take a week off from Real Life! ;D
And yeah, I do wish I were younger... sucks when the RL warranty runs out on body parts.
Well, since I'm already retired (since about 6 months before the sunset notification) I'll have to top your week off of work and take a week off from Real Life! ;DI feel young until I try to move. :roll:
And yeah, I do wish I were younger... sucks when the RL warranty runs out on body parts.
When the game comes back, I'm making my own holiday event! I'm taking a week off work! :p
I would open the game up for a free open beta as fast as possible.
Then set a $5 monthly fee and have it include EVERYTHING. You get all powers, all special badges and so on.
Next set up the market for buying the usual stuff. Once the game is purchased contact the SCoRE team if they exist and work together to make a possibility for bringing i24 forward to conclusion.
Man, I wish i was a bit closer to retirement.
If I was a working generation X i'd take a day off for sure, but i'm a millennial, they NEVER give us any days off....ever :(.
Depends on where you work. I get 21 vacation days a year as a millennial
They're trying to reposses mine.. Something about abuse...
Yeah my specialist, Dr. Rudy Wells tells me my replacement parts are on back order since the price was hiked up to cost an arm and a leg.
I would open the game up for a free open beta as fast as possible.
Then set a $5 monthly fee and have it include EVERYTHING. You get all powers, all special badges and so on.
Next set up the market for buying the usual stuff. Once the game is purchased contact the SCoRE team if they exist and work together to make a possibility for bringing i24 forward to conclusion.
Man, I wish i was a bit closer to retirement.
On a side note: I heard that they are making a reboot of The $6 Million Dollar Man.
I sure hope they update that figure though....these days $6 Million would only get you a bionic big toe.
On a side note: I heard that they are making a reboot of The $6 Million Dollar Man.
I sure hope they update that figure though....these days $6 Million would only get you a bionic big toe.
They're trying to reposses mine.. Something about abuse...
Yeah, six million dollars wouldn't be close to enough for a fully augmented super human these days.
Plus can you imagine the maintenance/upkeep/repair costs? In Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex, the Major and Batu were chatting and it was stated rather clearly that they are essentially property of Section 9 due to their cyborg bodies and upkeep costs.
I really could not agree with you more on the costs of cyborgs and their maintenance.
The future is in reanimated corpses.
-Dr Vaz
I would open the game up for a free open beta as fast as possible.
Then set a $5 monthly fee and have it include EVERYTHING. You get all powers, all special badges and so on.
Next set up the market for buying the usual stuff. Once the game is purchased contact the SCoRE team if they exist and work together to make a possibility for bringing i24 forward to conclusion.
Plus can you imagine the maintenance/upkeep/repair costs? In Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex, the Major and Batu were chatting and it was stated rather clearly that they are essentially property of Section 9 due to their cyborg bodies and upkeep costs.Although the Major actually has had dozens of bodies stashed or "idling" around the globe and her ghost has gone repeatedly body hopping when need arose, and that's not counting what she became later. Although i don't think Section 9 is aware of all of that, and it would be in the Major's interest to not let them know.
Although the Major actually has had dozens of bodies stashed or "idling" around the globe and her ghost has gone repeatedly body hopping when need arose, and that's not counting what she became later. Although i don't think Section 9 is aware of all of that, and it would be in the Major's interest to not let them know.
I don't know... I sorta liked the f2p model myself - how about f2p for a static, I23 CoX (2004 version) with the store extras for purchase and a small subscription model for the various projects to come?
On a side note: I heard that they are making a reboot of The $6 Million Dollar Man.
I sure hope they update that figure though....these days $6 Million would only get you a bionic big toe.
I believe the title for the reboot is going to be The Six Billion Dollar Man, due out in 2016... and for once they aren't trying to re-do it with Mike Myers or Jim Carey as the star.... (shudder).
Mark Wahlberg's done some enjoyable stuff lately, and I can buy him as someone who was meant to be a normal looking undercover agent most of the time, and not someone with wanna-be movie star looks.
Well they mentioned in the new Robocop movie when someone said he looked like a million bucks, some stated 2 billion bucks.
So yeah I can see Colonel Steve Austin running into the billions for his bionic budget.
Hm, as much as I don't like franchise crossovers, a Bionic Man vs. Robocop mini series could be interesting.
It costs 100+ dollars for a modem or router.WHAT? Maybe if you're getting them made out of solid gold or some shit. My router was $40 and an equivalent modem to the one provided for free by my cable carrier would be about $60.
They're trying to reposses mine.. Something about abuse...
I would open the game up for a free open beta as fast as possible.
Then set a $5 monthly fee and have it include EVERYTHING. You get all powers, all special badges and so on.
Next set up the market for buying the usual stuff. Once the game is purchased contact the SCoRE team if they exist and work together to make a possibility for bringing i24 forward to conclusion.
Man, I wish i was a bit closer to retirement.
I always wanted to see a Robocop - Max Headroom combined universe series.
You're far too easy on everyone.
Free open beta, then $14.99/month to play. This includes everything. It is only fair to recompense the people making this effort somewhat, and to pay the costs associated with startup. Were the game still up now, I would have been paying $14.99/month this whole time. This isn't ripping people off, its a fair price. I totally WISH I was paying $14.99 now, trust me. This game is worth it.
Then set up the market.
When things age in a bit and we get CoT up and running, THEN drop down to $5/month.
That's just me.
You're far too easy on everyone.
Free open beta, then $14.99/month to play. This includes everything. It is only fair to recompense the people making this effort somewhat, and to pay the costs associated with startup. Were the game still up now, I would have been paying $14.99/month this whole time. This isn't ripping people off, its a fair price. I totally WISH I was paying $14.99 now, trust me. This game is worth it.
Then set up the market.
When things age in a bit and we get CoT up and running, THEN drop down to $5/month.
That's just me.
You'd price yourself out of a lot of business with those numbers. What you are willing to pay as an old invested CoH diehard is much different than the average gamer. Specifically when you are asking it for a game that IS dated in the graphics department, and was doomed to obscurity for a few years.
No one knows except those in the negotiations, and they're not going to tell us anything.
I also don't agree with the $15/month idea, because in the past that $15/month bought me access to the game, and ALSO continued development in the game. $15/month for CoH 1.5, maybe, but unless there is a way to continue developing new things for CoH 1.0, and that doesn't appear likely, it's not reasonable to pay full price for a zombie game.
If it was me (and it's not, but if it was :)):
I'd leave the "freemium" model in place. As much as I personally dislike the F2P schema,
it does bring in new players better than a full subscription-only plan.
Then I'd have the VIP subscription at $9.99 a month.
I would also have a relatively short window (about 6 months) where all the unlockables
are sold in a couple of bundles [costumes bundle, powers bundle, a bundle that included enough
tokens to go to vet reward tier 8, etc]. These could be used to bring a quick infusion of cash
and to bring all of us mostly back to what we had.
Going forward from that, I'd have the normal sales in the store. I might even add in an Influence pack
and an SG Prestige pack for those folks who simply cannot wait to get their bases back up and running.
I'd also like to see a store purchase able to unlock the "VIP Tier 9" costume sets that they rotated out
of the reward tiers.
whoever runs the game will have to find a break even point. they wont run at a loss just to keep people happy.
I suppose it depends on what you consider to be a high sub fee.
my thought exactly..$15 a month is cheap...1 trip to mcdonalds.....
Haven't been to a McDonolds in awhile, but there is no way a meal cost 15 dollars O.o 15 dollars is the price for a food in a sitdown restaurant that doesn't serve dehydrated
Haven't been to a McDonolds in awhile, but there is no way a meal cost 15 dollars O.o
... the newer games HAVE to be the subscription draw (APR, CoT, etc.), but the 10 year old original CoH (and the CoV supplement) in its I23 stasis should be f2p for the most part just to draw other players into the CoX world...
my thought exactly..$15 a month is cheap...1 trip to mcdonalds.....
And do you actually think money, diamonds and gold bars are going to drop from the sky onto Team Hail Mary to keep CoX going for free? .... Really?
Are YOU going to foot the bill then?
You're not factoring in the healthcare costs associated with eating at McDs.
Reality has to set in at some point.If such people need startup money, I doubt they'd lack for it around here. I threw $1,000 at City of Titans, another $100 at Valiance, and I'd be willing to throw another $1,000 at the i23 restart company. If I actually got that $ back, well that's a bonus.
This is a retired game being brought back to life. Once the costs are known for support (much of that work may be done by volunteers - GM's and such), hosting and associated costs - likely it could be done by a 3rd party vendor fairly cheap and a minimal staff for accounting and management. Once these are reached then you know what to price it at to run a small profit monthly - I would then take this profit and sink it into CoH 1.5 and possibly form a partnership with the APR team.
Why reinvent the wheel? If the team running the old game has support staff, hosting set up and accounting in place - why would you want to absorb those costs again?
Making enough money to run the game, pay some people and provide for future development would be the key. Alas, we don't know the deal reached - maybe the Classic game is required to be a seperate entity. I would have to seriously look at my finances to run something like this. I know how much my wife and I both make and to retire early from a good job to move to another uncertan job would have to at least equal what I make now.
It would come down to how does the game start?
Is NCSoft willing to fund the restart with an immediate repay as soon as possible? Would it require a business loan? I don't fancy taking a loan against my 401k to fund the game unless I could run a business plan project costs versus return. If the ROI was under say 3 years - fair enough - otherwise it would be a tough sell.
I don't have a problem with $15 for a single sub fee. I would have a problem with multiple sub fees that I planned for bringing back my wife's toons and son's sandbox.
I don't see the need for the original sub costs if all that is happening is bringing the game back online with no development. I do see a need for some type of sub fee to keep servers alive, support crew, and compensation to the people who worked this all out. And if the money is going to APR or CoT or others, so be it.
The whole process that's been involved in this remarkable attempt to resurrect our beloved game is starting to make me think of Niagara Falls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYP1OBZfFK0
Slowly we turn... :D
I would like to see $15 for first subscription then say: $10 for additional accounts attached to your main account.
All proceeds go to server maintenance, electrical/bandwidth fees, staff and of course CoH 1.5
Are YOU going to foot the bill then?
That is along the same lines as I was thinking for premium/VIP, but I think we will still need an F2P hook to bring in new players.
If you're not willing to pay the usual 15$ fee or the 12 month subscription with discount then you must really not want this game back that badly. 10 year old or not "there is no other game like cox" " I don't have fun in any other game" etc speaks to me that it's worth doing whatever possible to get the game back and to keep it running.
This game isn't going to run at 5$ or 10$ a month unless many people have multiple accounts, buy lots of cash shop items or we end up with huge subscription numbers to pay for the games expenses or the game is flooded with ingame talking ads that nobody likes.
If you're not willing to pay the usual 15$ fee or the 12 month subscription with discount then you must really not want this game back that badly. 10 year old or not "there is no other game like cox" " I don't have fun in any other game" etc speaks to me that it's worth doing whatever possible to get the game back and to keep it running.I would not mind paying $15 a month if I could do it all at once just like the game had when it was running. And maybe add a free month.
This game isn't going to run at 5$ or 10$ a month unless many people have multiple accounts, buy lots of cash shop items or we end up with huge subscription numbers to pay for the games expenses or the game is flooded with ingame talking ads that nobody likes.
One, you have no grid on what I want, how much I want it, or the relative values of...anything to me, much less this game. I admit it. COH was not my entire world. I played other games and liked them. For shame, I know. I did, however, thoroughly enjoy my time in game, and the time I most enjoyed was spent playing with groups of other people.Too add to this I motion that we table this talk about subs or no sub and what one should pay. All this will do is devolve into a flame war.
Two, how is it that $15/month is the magic bullet that makes everything work? Everyone seems so certain that this is the point at which it keeps everything afloat. I'm not locked into a number, and, for the record, I would pay $15/month if that is where the bar is set. I'm also not convinced that it is the clear cut optimum price range.
Sometimes I really wonder if some folks would prefer to just have the game to themselves. If others didn't go through the pangs of separation and loss, then clearly they wouldn't be able to appreciate the game, and perhaps they should play something else.
Too add to this I motion that we table this talk about subs or no sub and what one should pay. All this will do is devolve into a flame war.
Too add to this I motion that we table this talk about subs or no sub and what one should pay. All this will do is devolve into a flame war.
Too add to this I motion that we table this talk about subs or no sub and what one should pay. All this will do is devolve into a flame war.
One, you have no grid on what I want, how much I want it, or the relative values of...anything to me, much less this game. I admit it. COH was not my entire world. I played other games and liked them. For shame, I know. I did, however, thoroughly enjoy my time in game, and the time I most enjoyed was spent playing with groups of other people.
Two, how is it that $15/month is the magic bullet that makes everything work? Everyone seems so certain that this is the point at which it keeps everything afloat. I'm not locked into a number, and, for the record, I would pay $15/month if that is where the bar is set. I'm also not convinced that it is the clear cut optimum price range.
Sometimes I really wonder if some folks would prefer to just have the game to themselves. If others didn't go through the pangs of separation and loss, then clearly they wouldn't be able to appreciate the game, and perhaps they should play something else.
Too add to this I motion that we table this talk about subs or no sub and what one should pay. All this will do is devolve into a flame war.
And this....
(glad the Navy taught us to have thick skins.... I took no offense from anyone here) ;)
Does this board actually *have* flamewars? For a bunch of gamers I haven't seen much nerdrage thrown around.
Barnacles? :)
My destroyer (USS Briscoe DD-977) collected its share.... every year it seemed we spent a month docked for refits and water-line sanding..... ;)
Personally I don't care what it costs... my only hope is that there is no f2p option. I liked trial accounts.... At this point I think CoH will need funds from every player to ensure longevity. Last thing I want to see is CoH come back and then be shut down again du to not enough revenue... especially before CoH 1.5.
You'd price yourself out of a lot of business with those numbers. What you are willing to pay as an old invested CoH diehard is much different than the average gamer. Specifically when you are asking it for a game that IS dated in the graphics department, and was doomed to obscurity for a few years.
Two, how is it that $15/month is the magic bullet that makes everything work? Everyone seems so certain that this is the point at which it keeps everything afloat. I'm not locked into a number, and, for the record, I would pay $15/month if that is where the bar is set. I'm also not convinced that it is the clear cut optimum price range.
Sometimes I really wonder if some folks would prefer to just have the game to themselves. If others didn't go through the pangs of separation and loss, then clearly they wouldn't be able to appreciate the game, and perhaps they should play something else.
If you're not willing to pay the usual 15$ fee or the 12 month subscription with discount then you must really not want this game back that badly. 10 year old or not "there is no other game like cox" " I don't have fun in any other game" etc speaks to me that it's worth doing whatever possible to get the game back and to keep it running.
What she said.....
I have to agree with Illusionss completely. I want the game back and I'm willing to pay a decent price every month for it. At the sametime I want a f2p model because there was times (not long stretches). That I couldn't afford the 15 a month and would rather be f2p than go without.
And I want to echo the fact that there IS NOT ANOTHER GAME LIKE COH! Not until one of the three projects are finished that is and we still don't know for sure. If they'll be what we expect.
Either way, we can pick at this until the next update. It doesn't change the fact that what ever. The people that get the game ask we'll most likely pay it...... I know I will :P
I agree with Illusionss. I too would pay $15 a month to go back to my City. Even if I have to start over from scratch level wise. Having the game back is all that really matters. If they go with F2P I would still sub just to keep the game going. Not just for me but for everyone else who misses what we had. Plus all those who never had the opportunity to visit. I subbed continuously from Nov of 2005 until they refunded subs at shutdown in 2012. As many have stated...there is no place like home!
What she said.....
I have to agree with Illusionss completely. I want the game back and I'm willing to pay a decent price every month for it. At the sametime I want a f2p model because there was times (not long stretches). That I couldn't afford the 15 a month and would rather be f2p than go without.
And I want to echo the fact that there IS NOT ANOTHER GAME LIKE COH! Not until one of the three projects are finished that is and we still don't know for sure. If they'll be what we expect.
Either way, we can pick at this until the next update. It doesn't change the fact that what ever. The people that get the game ask we'll most likely pay it...... I know I will :P
I agree with Illusionss. I too would pay $15 a month to go back to my City. Even if I have to start over from scratch level wise. Having the game back is all that really matters. If they go with F2P I would still sub just to keep the game going. Not just for me but for everyone else who misses what we had. Plus all those who never had the opportunity to visit. I subbed continuously from Nov of 2005 until they refunded subs at shutdown in 2012. As many have stated...there is no place like home!
This jist of the argument is that it is improbable to get new players into the game before the graphics retrofit, so it is pointless to try? I suppose that's fair enough. My worry is that if the only people who play are on this forum with a handful of others, it will be very difficult to do much of the group oriented content. It was suggested to move on from this topic, so that'll be the last I say on the matter. It is my persistent and genuine desire to see you all in the game again, and, I hope, sooner rather than later.
Keep in mind, there are probably alot of lurkers on the forums and even when the game gets rereleased the news will attract old customers who never even visit the official forums let alone Titian Network
Welcome onboard Groundbreaker!
What she said.....
I have to agree with Illusionss completely. I want the game back and I'm willing to pay a decent price every month for it. At the sametime I want a f2p model because there was times (not long stretches). That I couldn't afford the 15 a month and would rather be f2p than go without.
Also, thanks for the Taxibot services, Groundbreaker. :-)
Taxibot Belle was the Taxibot that I saw the most during my tenure with CoH. I never failed to stop and say "Hi, and thanks for your selfless service." when I saw her online. Not that ever used the Taxibot services. Most of the issues I had getting around in various zones was because of ambush spawns for level 40+ guys in Steel Canyon. Usually Devouring Earth slogging down the street just as I round the corner, all while I'm still in my lower teens...
Also, thanks for the Taxibot services, Groundbreaker. :-)
Taxibot Belle was the Taxibot that I saw the most during my tenure with CoH. I never failed to stop and say "Hi, and thanks for your selfless service." when I saw her online. Not that ever used the Taxibot services. Most of the issues I had getting around in various zones was because of ambush spawns for level 40+ guys in Steel Canyon. Usually Devouring Earth slogging down the street just as I round the corner, all while I'm still in my lower teens...
Reading through the replies on here - I have changed my tune a bit.this makes perfect sense, the reason being those who will pay full price should get everything and those who cannot pay can still get on and still play.
I think I would offer a 3 tier structure:
1. $15 a month and you get it all - all veteran powers, the same amount of points you used to get a month and all special badges past, present and future to all characters.
2. $5 a month you get to start new and have to build up to the veteran powers (or buy them as an add on for a nominal fee). You get nothing but a shiney new account and a small monthly point allowance.
3. F2P - all the earlier restrictions of a F2P account as of i23.
Reading through the replies on here - I have changed my tune a bit.
I think I would offer a 3 tier structure:
1. $15 a month and you get it all - all veteran powers, the same amount of points you used to get a month and all special badges past, present and future to all characters.
2. $5 a month you get to start new and have to build up to the veteran powers (or buy them as an add on for a nominal fee). You get nothing but a shiney new account and a small monthly point allowance.
3. F2P - all the earlier restrictions of a F2P account as of i23.
Reading through the replies on here - I have changed my tune a bit.
I think I would offer a 3 tier structure:
1. $15 a month and you get it all - all veteran powers, the same amount of points you used to get a month and all special badges past, present and future to all characters.
2. $5 a month you get to start new and have to build up to the veteran powers (or buy them as an add on for a nominal fee). You get nothing but a shiney new account and a small monthly point allowance.
3. F2P - all the earlier restrictions of a F2P account as of i23.
Reading through the replies on here - I have changed my tune a bit.
I think I would offer a 3 tier structure:
1. $15 a month and you get it all - all veteran powers, the same amount of points you used to get a month and all special badges past, present and future to all characters.
2. $5 a month you get to start new and have to build up to the veteran powers (or buy them as an add on for a nominal fee). You get nothing but a shiney new account and a small monthly point allowance.
3. F2P - all the earlier restrictions of a F2P account as of i23.
The only restriction I would do away with (think it's been talked about couple times here) for f2p/freemium players is the problems with IO. Just disable the bonus and procs of the IOs but leave the buffs. Another one was about the chat system being so restrictive for f2p/freemium. Allow full access to the chat that way you encourage people to interact with the community potentially invest into the system.It's a proposition with merit MM3, but toggling off IO rewards is something that might require additional coding to a binary copy - something for CoX 1.5 but I don't think it's possible with zombie binary copy of Legacy CoX
This jist of the argument is that it is improbable to get new players into the game before the graphics retrofit, so it is pointless to try? I suppose that's fair enough. My worry is that if the only people who play are on this forum with a handful of others, it will be very difficult to do much of the group oriented content. It was suggested to move on from this topic, so that'll be the last I say on the matter. It is my persistent and genuine desire to see you all in the game again, and, I hope, sooner rather than later.Well, besides these forums i know of several CoH Facebook groups that have relatively little overlap with these forums that are active and encounter people referencing CoH as a game they enjoyed fairly regularly on other gaming sites. At a minimum i would say there's enough people out there who would play in a minute given the opportunity that we could keep several servers pretty busy on fan power alone. Honestly CoH's graphics still compare pretty favorably to some AAA MMOs that are less than three years old.
The biggest problem I had with F2P with CoH when we had it was that IMHO it gave away too much. I could play characters 1-50 and had only minor reasons to even pay. (yes I considered going F2P because I gave up very little) You don't need to have good math skills to figure out that you are begging from the players who already pay to pay even more to keep the folks who had no interest in ever paying anyways.Losing IOs on your existing characters made them literally unplayable. Maybe not a problem if you didn't use them, but a lot of people did.
The only restriction I would do away with (think it's been talked about couple times here) for f2p/freemium players is the problems with IO. Just disable the bonus and procs of the IOs but leave the buffs. Another one was about the chat system being so restrictive for f2p/freemium. Allow full access to the chat that way you encourage people to interact with the community potentially invest into the system.Only problem with giving free accounts full chat is the spam from for-profit farmers, trying to sell powerlevelling or rare drops for real cash. You can ban the spammer, but they just make a new free acc and do it again. I agree it's less than ideal, but it might be necessary
Only problem with giving free accounts full chat is the spam from for-profit farmers, trying to sell powerlevelling or rare drops for real cash. You can ban the spammer, but they just make a new free acc and do it again. I agree it's less than ideal, but it might be necessary
Honestly I don't think CoX would be a big enough market for gold farmers to give a crap about. Thinking about cost benefit, the time they spending grinding for inf in CoX, more than likely would have made more money from WoW or ESO or what ever is out there right now
spammer were a problem early on in CoH, but don't remember having to block more than a handful in the final 2 years.
i have faith that the team will be on top of it ;D
Honestly I don't think CoX would be a big enough market for gold farmers to give a crap about. Thinking about cost benefit, the time they spending grinding for inf in CoX, more than likely would have made more money from WoW or ESO or what ever is out there right now
As long as I get my "canadian hockey team " mastermind I will be happy.
As long as I get my "canadian hockey team " mastermind I will be happy.
Reading through the replies on here - I have changed my tune a bit.
I think I would offer a 3 tier structure:
And I've been waiting years to play NekoMancer... my female MistressMind in control of a mob of Catgirls! Nyaaaa! (Neko means Cat in Japanese.... grin)now there is a power set I would love to have :D
Reading through the replies on here - I have changed my tune a bit.
I think I would offer a 3 tier structure:
1. $15 a month and you get it all - all veteran powers, the same amount of points you used to get a month and all special badges past, present and future to all characters.
2. $5 a month you get to start new and have to build up to the veteran powers (or buy them as an add on for a nominal fee). You get nothing but a shiney new account and a small monthly point allowance.
J
3. F2P - all the earlier restrictions of a F2P account as of i23.
I can't see Gold Farmers returning to a game that is itself returning from the dead.
Anytime a farmer would broadcast they would get reported and their account nuked.
Then they altered trial accounts as I recall to eliminate certain chat features to stop the gold farmers and that greatly reduced the farm spam.
Once the game returns, simply don't offer trial accounts. Between Gold Farmers and those that would use trial accounts to try to name grief, we would be better off without them.
That and the same reason there wasn't gold farmers really near the end. A) Chat restrictions and B) Influence is super easy to obtain in that game. There is no reason to buy Inf because it comes in so fast you can make others toons just for holding it. There is no money to be made selling Inf in City of Heroes. Sure there are always the occasional go-getters that set up bots to spam any possible game in existence. But for the most part I imagine it will remain untouched.
Not to mention the community. I had so much money near the end of the game I would have just given someone millions of inf before they went and bought some.
Wasn't there also a cap on how much Inf a trial account could have? I don't remember if that restriction carried over to F2P it probably didn't but a lower Inf cap would deter spammers selling Inf.
Free/Premium accounts did have a limit on inf. 25 million I believe it was
And I've been waiting years to play NekoMancer... my female MistressMind in control of a mob of Catgirls! Nyaaaa! (Neko means Cat in Japanese.... grin)Catgirl Mastermind requires the addition of Catnip Coolers to the game. Actually most of the products and/or services in The Cape Radio ads should be implemented in game if/when we get 1.5 and all that. Oh, and the Rikti-raser. i wish i knew where to find those ads, they were hilarious.
Catgirl Mastermind requires the addition of Catnip Coolers to the game. Actually most of the products and/or services in The Cape Radio ads should be implemented in game if/when we get 1.5 and all that. Oh, and the Rikti-raser. i wish i knew where to find those ads, they were hilarious.
Honestly I don't think CoX would be a big enough market for gold farmers to give a crap about. Thinking about cost benefit, the time they spending grinding for inf in CoX, more than likely would have made more money from WoW or ESO or what ever is out there right now
Clearly, they should all be using Savage Melee (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Savage_Melee) powers.
Yeowch!!! That looks like it could hurt! So we merge Thugs (Pack) Powerset with Savage Melee and watch the fur fly.... Teamed with an AOE Healer (Kin is a fav of mine) the Pack would be truly viscious.
I like kinetics, I can see where it would be so overpowered on a mastermind
I have to agree with you there... Mastermind was easy enough with Force Field as a secondary. (I soloed a Bots/FF MM 95% of the way thru the Rogue Isles.) With a Kin secondary, the troops would have been unstoppable.
I can't see Gold Farmers returning to a game that is itself returning from the dead.
Anytime a farmer would broadcast they would get reported and their account nuked.
Then they altered trial accounts as I recall to eliminate certain chat features to stop the gold farmers and that greatly reduced the farm spam.
Once the game returns, simply don't offer trial accounts. Between Gold Farmers and those that would use trial accounts to try to name grief, we would be better off without them.
That and the same reason there wasn't gold farmers really near the end. A) Chat restrictions and B) Influence is super easy to obtain in that game. There is no reason to buy Inf because it comes in so fast you can make others toons just for holding it. There is no money to be made selling Inf in City of Heroes. Sure there are always the occasional go-getters that set up bots to spam any possible game in existence. But for the most part I imagine it will remain untouched.
Not to mention the community. I had so much money near the end of the game I would have just given someone millions of inf before they went and bought some.
Early in my CoH gaming career, I actually did purchase influence - completely safe from detection by the devs/mods. I bought it from my real life friends, who were also members of my SG; who's to say they weren't just being nice to a fellow SG member and global friend? One of my best friends is cash poor in real life, but a fantastic farmer for his characters. I have cash, but limited playing time (having to spend long hours earning said cash). A mutually beneficial arrangement was soon arrived at.
Later on, I found a much better cash-for-INF scheme - I'd purchase Super Packs and sell off unwanted ATOs or just use the Reward Merits from them to buy LotG Recharge recipes and such. A far better method, at least from my perspective.
One measure was that trial accounts actually could not broadcast without spending some money. They also had no super group access and generally had no emailing rights(For two weeks) either, which stopped them from spamming any players email. So the best they could safely do was go to the atlas park auction house. If they took that away, then made other auction houses behind something very dangerous to get to without travel powers, maybe that'd hurt em? Even then would that even be necessary?
Also neutralize powers in the AH for those that leave noisy demon pets spawns, leave their heal power on auto or go around spamming Speed boost if a kin......so annoying when one is trying to shop in the AH :)That drove me crazy as well. Yet another reason my all-time favorite high-Tier reward was Remote Action House Access. Aside from logging time for Day Job credit, I never bothered to set foot in Wentworth's ever again.
If you're not willing to pay the usual 15$ fee or the 12 month subscription with discount then you must really not want this game back that badly. 10 year old or not "there is no other game like cox" " I don't have fun in any other game" etc speaks to me that it's worth doing whatever possible to get the game back and to keep it running.Do you have access to some numbers for that? Just curious where that info comes from.
This game isn't going to run at 5$ or 10$ a month unless many people have multiple accounts, buy lots of cash shop items or we end up with huge subscription numbers to pay for the games expenses or the game is flooded with ingame talking ads that nobody likes.
i never bought influence, but I did hand a lot out.I too never bought inf from gold sellers, I earned my 3.25 bil though-out the years that I played. In my first year I was taken for 15 mil from a few ex sg member who I thought was going to trade with me again but they logged and did not log on for 4 months.
about 2 billion each month during SG contests + sweet receipes and salvage.
That drove me crazy as well. Yet another reason my all-time favorite high-Tier reward was Remote Action House Access. Aside from logging time for Day Job credit, I never bothered to set foot in Wentworth's ever again.
Later on, I found a much better cash-for-INF scheme - I'd purchase Super Packs and sell off unwanted ATOs or just use the Reward Merits from them to buy LotG Recharge recipes and such. A far better method, at least from my perspective.
Yeah, I did this too. Between ATOs and enhancement converters, you could make a crapton of inf through the market. And with super packs you knew the money was actually going to the studio, rather than some sketchy site that was probably just trying to steal your financial info.
Also, remote auction house access ftw!
Yeah, I did this too. Between ATOs and enhancement converters, you could make a crapton of inf through the market. And with super packs you knew the money was actually going to the studio, rather than some sketchy site that was probably just trying to steal your financial info.
Also, remote auction house access ftw!
Yeah, the whole reason superpacks were added was to combat gold farmers, just the same reason lockboxes were added to mmorpgs. Both were there to combat gold farmers.
Another good way for a time was to get the +3 def IO from the PVP IO set, they used to go for 2 billion on the market before conversions became possible.
The level 10 ones you could get with merits went for a lot more than 2BN off market, I sold 3 for 4BN each, and bought back one level 50 for 2BN.
Catgirl Mastermind requires the addition of Catnip Coolers to the game. Actually most of the products and/or services in The Cape Radio ads should be implemented in game if/when we get 1.5 and all that. Oh, and the Rikti-raser. i wish i knew where to find those ads, they were hilarious.
http://www.thecaperadio.com/multimedia/cohaudio.php (http://www.thecaperadio.com/multimedia/cohaudio.php)Oh yes, yes indeed. You have my thanks.
That appears to have what you're looking for.
If that's the actual reason then they are an abject failure in Star Trek Online, as that game still sees plenty of gold sellers (to the point where systems are in place to autoban people who trip certain keywords in chat, which has happened to several legitimate players by accident).
Do you have access to some numbers for that? Just curious where that info comes from.
I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that the cost to run a maintenance-mode CoH legacy game would be much lower than it was when the game was running. They wouldn't be paying anyone to design new content for one thing. $15 a month for the previous more costly CoH made sense...I don't see why I should assume the same rate is needed for a cheaper to run CoH. And I'm not going to ignore the fact that the game made more money after lowering the sub price to zero either. I don't think "$15" is a dividing line between profitability and non-profitability. There may need to be a carrot of some sort to get some people to play a game without updates.
$15 a month would push me from 2 accounts down to one I must say. It might surprise some to learn that because they can afford it that doesn't mean the same is true of everyone. It might not be "because you don't want the game back that badly". :P
Coincidentally, I'm in the process of changing banks because my current bank insists on hitting me with a $12 monthly service fee every time my checking account falls below a certain limit. (While they ignore all the money I keep in savings at that bank)
Is $12 a lot of money? Nope...but that sort of thing adds up across the board and I pay attention to things like that....which is why I'm able to live within a budget and not fall into financial difficulty.
Do you have access to some numbers for that? Just curious where that info comes from.
I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that the cost to run a maintenance-mode CoH legacy game would be much lower than it was when the game was running. They wouldn't be paying anyone to design new content for one thing. $15 a month for the previous more costly CoH made sense...I don't see why I should assume the same rate is needed for a cheaper to run CoH. And I'm not going to ignore the fact that the game made more money after lowering the sub price to zero either. I don't think "$15" is a dividing line between profitability and non-profitability. There may need to be a carrot of some sort to get some people to play a game without updates.
$15 a month would push me from 2 accounts down to one I must say. It might surprise some to learn that because they can afford it that doesn't mean the same is true of everyone. It might not be "because you don't want the game back that badly". :P
Coincidentally, I'm in the process of changing banks because my current bank insists on hitting me with a $12 monthly service fee every time my checking account falls below a certain limit. (While they ignore all the money I keep in savings at that bank)
Is $12 a lot of money? Nope...but that sort of thing adds up across the board and I pay attention to things like that....which is why I'm able to live within a budget and not fall into financial difficulty.
You may think $15 is a lot for a maintenance mode of COH... but let's not forget that when COH comes back...it will not have the same amount of subscribers. If 10,000 people come back I will be surprised. Let's also not forget COH Legacy also needs to pay for... getting the IP which none of us are aware of the cost. It would not surprise me if the IP etc... is a $2 million endeavor.
10,000 subs at $15 a month...that will take at least a year to pay. That's not including paying the server costs...paragon market costs... etc etc...
If people want COH back... guess what... it's gonna cost money from everyone. The sooner the startup costs are recouped...the sooner they can then reduce the monthly costs.
You are correct that chances are there won't be that many etuning players or even newer ones who want to pay a premimum subscription price for a 10 year old MMO that will never be updated. So getting the old game up and running is not where they will make bake their investment. If they can cover operating costs and possibly make a little bit of income , great. But it'd be beyond foolish to think that they plan on staking it all just to get Legacy going. And don't forget, even getting the image of the game wasn't the initial plan, NCSoft threw that out there when they made the original pitch for the IP not the game
You may think $15 is a lot for a maintenance mode of COH... but let's not forget that when COH comes back...it will not have the same amount of subscribers. If 10,000 people come back I will be surprised. Let's also not forget COH Legacy also needs to pay for... getting the IP which none of us are aware of the cost. It would not surprise me if the IP etc... is a $2 million endeavor.
10,000 subs at $15 a month...that will take at least a year to pay. That's not including paying the server costs...paragon market costs... etc etc...
If people want COH back... guess what... it's gonna cost money from everyone. The sooner the startup costs are recouped...the sooner they can then reduce the monthly costs.
As long as the whole thing doesn't go sour, I'm up for whatever version/price of CoX they throw at us. APR will be cool if it ever comes to fruition, but I really just want my CoX City back. It has enough content to keep me going for years. I played from the day after launch to shutdown night, and I felt I still had a whole lot more I wanted to do. I'm happy we may get the chance, and even if it all falls to pieces, I really appreciate Team Hail Mary's efforts to get CoX back to us again. 8)
This game brought out the best in me and everyone I know who played it. The heroic attitude is infectious.
I will be one of the first to sign up to play, and although I am not rich, I will put my money where my mouth is.
If/When City of Heroes rises from the ashes, I will make sure I do my part to make sure it never falls again. :)
I felt like my best friend died, even now years after the tragic event.
Thank you so much for the hope,
Thomas Klemensen
Once we return we should all have the word phoenix as part of some of our character names to symbolize the rising from the ashes of the shutdown. Also we should have blue auras on some of our costumes to symbolize the power of hope.
Name is to long sorry :/. I have another way to celebrate in mind anyways. I really would like though people advise newbies that healers aren't a requirement for the game and mention the huge variety of alternatives to just healing hitpoints after damage is taken know?
Thought we were going to join the Titan SG, I'm still on board with that.
Thought we were going to join the Titan SG, I'm still on board with that.
Can you imagine if we could get every returning player to build 1 character specifically to join the Titan SG ?
WOW. You'd have a massive base built in a week.
The only thing that would take a bit of time is racking up all the PVP kills to get the Fusion Generator base badge unlocked.
Done in two hours, tops!
See that I would do - make an Ironwolf character and use him in the Titan SG only.
That would so rock.
Once we return we should all have the word phoenix as part of some of our character names to symbolize the rising from the ashes of the shutdown. Also we should have blue auras on some of our costumes to symbolize the power of hope.I had Green Lantern (Emerald Radiance: Rad/Energy Defender) and Violet Lantern (Violet Radiance: Earth/Energy Dominator) -like characters in the Color Guard Super Group on Infinity. I would so add a Blue Lantern-like character to that. Granted, none of them were actually dressed like their respective lantern corps uniforms. Although, you could tell that they here homages to those particular lanterns.
I would gladly join the TITAN SG, too bad I couldn't use the name Sinistar.......unless the new owners allow copycat names, which I highly doubt.
Last thing the new owners need is marvel/dc knocking on their door and introducing them to their new friends "Cease and Desist" :)
They will probably keep the long standing method of "Oh, you want THAT name? Well, now you get to be Generic 915 736 428. Congratulations!"
Can you imagine if we could get every returning player to build 1 character specifically to join the Titan SG ?
WOW. You'd have a massive base built in a week.
it once was 75 and I think they upped it to 150
That gives me an idea for a character named Generic 8675309.
Hey! How did you get Jenny's number?
it once was 75 and I think they upped it to 150
Hey! How did you get Jenny's number?
Have just noticed that Downix hasn't been on the forums since 07/11/2014?
Note (for those of us who do dates differently): last visit November 6. Not July 7.
(This is why you'll never see me write dates in that format. It's always written out.)
Have just noticed that Downix hasn't been on the forums since 07/11/2014?
UK for you ;) Never understood the method of putting the month first ???
Your setting is set as European Standard/NATO Standard where it is Day/Month/Year
I'm assuming it's just someone the US did to stand out. Kind of like how we are on the Standard instead of the metric. Sure metric in all conceivable sense makes more sense (12 in = 1 foot, 3 foot = 1 yard... for something that is "Standard, there isn't a standard conversion rate like how metric dose it xD), but we're 'Merica! We take stuff, bastardize it, and call it American xD
If I am not mistaken the foot=12 inches measurement came from a King. People would build things using heel to toe measurements (feet) until one day the King decided it was no longer a rough estimate and would be an actual measurement of his foot (12 inches). Which would mean this is not a creation of America, seeing how America has never had any Kings.
^ It's called "Imperial" actually, not "standard". And in the UK, we used an annoying mixture of both imperial AND metric, just to confuse everyone! :p
Note (for those of us who do dates differently): last visit November 6. Not July 7.To be nice i always write it out as something like 7 November 2014. The actual standard is more like 20141107, but that's less human readable for most people even if it simplifies chronological sorts. In any event i have to consciously force myself to do that weird Month/Day/Year thing on forms that require it (of which there are many), it just seems so illogical.
(This is why you'll never see me write dates in that format. It's always written out.)
The actual standard is more like 20141107,
To be nice i always write it out as something like 7 November 2014. The actual standard is more like 20141107, but that's less human readable for most people even if it simplifies chronological sorts. In any event i have to consciously force myself to do that weird Month/Day/Year thing on forms that require it (of which there are many), it just seems so illogical.
You guys want to talk about confusing measurements....Its like that on my 1997 explorer. Built in Detroit sold and stayed in Colorado. its half metric half standard...
Try working on a 1980s truck from an American company (GMC Sierra) built in Canada, and worked on by a bunch of different yahoos over the years.
Every other bolt was metric, every other other was imperial.
Unix time or GTFO. I will not acknowledge any display of time that is not pure seconds since 1970.
You guys want to talk about confusing measurements....
Try working on a 1980s truck from an American company (GMC Sierra) built in Canada, and worked on by a bunch of different yahoos over the years.
Every other bolt was metric, every other other was imperial.
UK for you ;) Never understood the method of putting the month first ???
I figure it's because most people, when talking and asked the date, will say: "It's November seventh,' rather than "It's the seventh of November." Or just the number alone, since the month is assumed to be known.
I always thought that military date was far more logical, today would be 20141123 (Year/Month/Day) and to be more precise the time would provide the last four additional digits 201411232126 (9:26 PM as I am typing). . .
Just want to say hello to everyone...its ok star :)I think many of us is in a different location, myself I spend some of my time in the delta quadrant and in kingsmouth.
I've been in Gotham for a while..but Batman got a little jealous of Robin and I. So, I figured it was time to leave there ... 8)
When we get this old gal back up and running, be sure I'll be there!
I work in a company that's going global so all are dates are becoming (for example) 24/11/14 and 24 Nov 14. That's fine, no problem.
What I do not understand is the inversion of commas and periods. What I would see as 1, 234.56 is being presented as 1.234,56
Makes my head hurt.
I work in a company that's going global so all are dates are becoming (for example) 24/11/14 and 24 Nov 14. That's fine, no problem.
What I do not understand is the inversion of commas and periods. What I would see as 1, 234.56 is being presented as 1.234,56
Makes my head hurt.
I've seen it on reports for people to read, not just in our upcoming SAP system.
Never seen it like that. From what I was taught we used the simplified NATO standard where it was 2 digits of the day/First 3 of the month/ last 2 of the year so today would be 24NOV14. On a single digit, you needed to put in the leading 0 like 05DEC14. The actual NATO standard is Date-HHMM-Zone-Month-Year is the same fassion
No body I've ever met in the UK does that. We'd just say "It's the 7th". Sometimes we might add "Of November" after that. Never heard anyone say "November 7th".
You may think $15 is a lot for a maintenance mode of COH... but let's not forget that when COH comes back...it will not have the same amount of subscribers. If 10,000 people come back I will be surprised. Let's also not forget COH Legacy also needs to pay for... getting the IP which none of us are aware of the cost. It would not surprise me if the IP etc... is a $2 million endeavor.It may come down to math.
10,000 subs at $15 a month...that will take at least a year to pay. That's not including paying the server costs...paragon market costs... etc etc...
If people want COH back... guess what... it's gonna cost money from everyone. The sooner the startup costs are recouped...the sooner they can then reduce the monthly costs.
To be nice i always write it out as something like 7 November 2014. The actual standard is more like 20141107, but that's less human readable for most people even if it simplifies chronological sorts. In any event i have to consciously force myself to do that weird Month/Day/Year thing on forms that require it (of which there are many), it just seems so illogical.Same here. Ever since I spent some time in the military, day/month/year makes so much more sense. I got used to writing 01Jan15. It makes sense to go from biggest to smallest or vice versa.
Note (for those of us who do dates differently): last visit November 6. Not July 7.
(This is why you'll never see me write dates in that format. It's always written out.)
That's strange, have fun with SAP implementation. (Well you will, but your data people especially if your company is consolidating to a MDM will not xD) We just had ours and the only joy I can say is it is something to put on your resume for crisis management xD
No body I've ever met in the UK does that. We'd just say "It's the 7th". Sometimes we might add "Of November" after that. Never heard anyone say "November 7th".
I'm one of the data people :) I've been transitioning our quality standards into a format that is useable by the Oversight and Assurance teams. I'm also being trained to train other people. It's been a hoot.
I go by stardate.
I've seen it on reports for people to read, not just in our upcoming SAP system.
I've seen it on reports for people to read, not just in our upcoming SAP system.
No body I've ever met in the UK does that. We'd just say "It's the 7th". Sometimes we might add "Of November" after that. Never heard anyone say "November 7th".
UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!
Someone call the exorcists! We have a demon on the loose!!
[-27]1346.4
My phone might tell me both standard, and Stardate... -cough-
And you lot write your dates that way too :p
Well, of course! It's the only sensible way to do it, just like driving on the left is the only sensible way to drive!
The curious side of me wondered why people don't have the steering wheel in the middle of the car. that is the basic driving factor on which side of the road to drive
The reason others drive on the right is also simple. They're daft. :p
Are you, Sir FloatingFatsalot, calling me Daft?!
Well, he pulled you into the conversation which make you:
A Draft Daft!
*I laughed*
You know what. I'm going to go ahead...and just leave this map here...What's truly daft is that i recognized each map at a glance by the road layouts. :o
http://apr.pc-logix.com/RevivalMap_11_26_2014.png (http://apr.pc-logix.com/RevivalMap_11_26_2014.png)
Call me daft now... Hrmph.
You know what. I'm going to go ahead...and just leave this map here...
http://apr.pc-logix.com/RevivalMap_11_26_2014.png (http://apr.pc-logix.com/RevivalMap_11_26_2014.png)
Call me daft now... Hrmph.
Are you, Sir FloatingFatsalot, calling me Daft?!
Now would I do such a mean spirited thing as that? :roll:
No. Don't answer that! :P
Now she is a Drafting Draft Daft Dodger
Daft would be Burma/Myanmar.
"We've been driving on this side of the road since we started having cars, but it looked really cool, in this movie I just watched, to drive on the other side. Since I'm a dictator, I can just change the side of the road that we drive on, right?"
What's funny ("funny terrifying," not "funny ha-ha") is that the steering wheels are still on the right, and the bus doors are still on the left. Have fun stepping off the bus into traffic!
The position of the steering wheel is a consequence of the side of the road driven on, not a cause.Jousting. Not daft. Unfortunately, it's hard to get that long stick aimed correctly with the window up.
The reason we drive on the left is simple. Most knights were right handed, they would hang on to their horses reigns with their left, and use their swords with their right during combat. Made it easier to chop bits off your enemies!
The reason others drive on the right is also simple. They're daft. :p
Jousting. Not daft. Unfortunately, it's hard to get that long stick aimed correctly with the window up.
The curious side of me wondered why people don't have the steering wheel in the middle of the car. that is the basic driving factor on which side of the road to drive
Obviously, because then you'd drive right down the middle of the road. Which might not work on two-way streets.
Obviously, because then you'd drive right down the middle of the road. Which might not work on two-way streets.
Eagerly awaiting the next update on the potential purchase of CoH.
Like some pensive Mexican stand-off.
"Mexican stand-off" sounds like some kind of party splatter at El Super Mexicano. ;D
Fixed that for you. :p
hehehe
Fooood Fiiiight!!! *lobs a burrito*
That is not where my mind went at all when I saw splatter.. Hats off to you for keeping it clean there Triplash.
BeHOLD the AWEsome power of my FULLY-AUTOMATIC GUACAMOLE LAUNCHER!
I actually had a character called Tijuana Chili.
TC was on a pub crawl in Tijuana with some friends and they were eating hot chilis on a bet. TC had eaten them all and was bragging about it. A small wizened Aztec man of ancient age - reached into a pouch and handed a shrivelled pepper to TC. He took the pepper which was golden colored and gleamed in the light with a metallic sheen. He ate the pepper and immediately started radiating fire from all over the place.
The Fire/Fire tank Tijuana Chili was born!
Yeah, I was really hoping we'd hear something yesterday.
I actually had a character called Tijuana Chili.
TC was on a pub crawl in Tijuana with some friends and they were eating hot chilis on a bet. TC had eaten them all and was bragging about it. A small wizened Aztec man of ancient age - reached into a pouch and handed a shrivelled pepper to TC. He took the pepper which was golden colored and gleamed in the light with a metallic sheen. He ate the pepper and immediately started radiating fire from all over the place.
The Fire/Fire tank Tijuana Chili was born!
Could have been worse... Could have become the Ice/Ice Tanker.... Chilli Tijuana
I read that and totally heard Vanilla Ice sing "Ice ice tanker. . ." complete with the bass line rif.
Feel the wrath of my Chili con Carnage!
*runs around randomly bopping people with Dual Breadsticks*
Yeah, I was really hoping we'd hear something yesterday.
I think the people expecting it to happen on a "significant" date are probably not going to get what they want. They're working on a business deal; it happens on its own timetable. Barring a few business-related calendar dates that might relate (end of Q1, Q2, etc; end of fiscal year) I think it's going to happen when it happens. Nate might delay announcement to the next "significant" date if it's close, for a minor news bump, but I'm certainly hoping he doesn't. :)
......... I may or may not have done something like that before. >.>Hilarious! I've saved a copy of that one now. Believe it or not, I actually went to a Vanilla Ice concert back in the late 80's.Spoiler for Hidden:
Nate is not involved with the deal. He just helped introduce the players.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Nate is not involved with the deal. He just helped introduce the players.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I had an Ice toon named Chillin' Villains...LOL
Hilarious! I've saved a copy of that one now. Believe it or not, I actually went to a Vanilla Ice concert back in the late 80's.
but I did watch his movie without turning it off. A couple times! ;D
I got the ball rolling and Nate and friends took it the rest of the way.
He was involved as he was saying his phone bill was feeling the pain of calls to South Korea. It is possible that once the group running the Classic CoH is in place - he may not be involved past that. I know he is doing this for our benefit as MWM is not part of it all.
Nate is/was running with it until the other group is in place to run the server and deal with the IP purchase.
Then we will know our new overlords.
I welcome the new future CoH Overlords :)
Wow, for real? :)
Once I would have agreed without thinking; but I think back and remember how I was one of those who wanted Venom to be in Raimi's Spider-man 3. "Get him in there!" I said. "He needs to be in there any which kinda way!"
Lo, the powers that be hearkened to the fan's cries, and we did indeed get Venom in S-M3. He just turned out to be that nerdy guy from "That 70s Show." This taught me the folly of speaking without thinking things through; after I was restrained from hurling myself off the nearest big bridge, that is.
So, if the new overlords turn out NOT to be the equivalent of That 70s Venom, I will welcome them wholeheartedly. [I dont at all think they will be, I am just wary of making more rash predictions.]
Henry Rollins for Eddie Brock, dammit. he's old enough, big enough and more than intimidating enough, when he wants to be. But I digress. I actually think this franchise needs a resting period of at least ten years. But thats not here nor there.
The studio is to be blamed for Venom being forced into SM3. The should have saved him for #4
They really should have done a much better job on Venom in that movie, as they completely made it impossible for the introduction of the next villain in that line - Carnage. With the new series, maybe we will get to finally see Venom and Carnage (as they should be). The funny thing is, they teased Carnage as a villain in Amazing Spiderman 2 on the posters. It listed 4 things (drawing a total blank on the first three), with the last one as Carnage. Then we get the first preview and all we see is Electro.
Once I would have agreed without thinking; but I think back and remember how I was one of those who wanted Venom to be in Raimi's Spider-man 3. "Get him in there!" I said. "He needs to be in there any which kinda way!"
Lo, the powers that be hearkened to the fan's cries, and we did indeed get Venom in S-M3. He just turned out to be that nerdy guy from "That 70s Show." This taught me the folly of speaking without thinking things through; after I was restrained from hurling myself off the nearest big bridge, that is.
So, if the new overlords turn out NOT to be the equivalent of That 70s Venom, I will welcome them wholeheartedly. [I dont at all think they will be, I am just wary of making more rash predictions.]
Henry Rollins for Eddie Brock, dammit. he's old enough, big enough and more than intimidating enough, when he wants to be. But I digress. I actually think this franchise needs a resting period of at least ten years. But thats not here nor there.
But...It's possible...they could say...Politely inform me that I need to shoehorn in Topher Grace as Venom, or turn over Revival.
They really should have done a much better job on Venom in that movie, as they completely made it impossible for the introduction of the next villain in that line - Carnage. With the new series, maybe we will get to finally see Venom and Carnage (as they should be). The funny thing is, they teased Carnage as a villain in Amazing Spiderman 2 on the posters. It listed 4 things (drawing a total blank on the first three), with the last one as Carnage. Then we get the first preview and all we see is Electro.
I wish I had some kind of an idea on who might end up with the big chair in the end...Especially since in a way you could look at them as my boss. lol.
Also, I suppose in a way you could look at me as "one of the new overlords" and nobody's made any comparisons between me and Spider-Man 3 Venom. So that's likely a good sign all around.
(Love Topher Grace, but he's nowhere near the right fit for Eddie Brock. He'd be a better Peter Parker.)
It's kind of hard to screw up a Maint. mode server. Since it's mostly...making sure everything keeps ticking.
But...It's possible...they could say...Politely inform me that I need to shoehorn in Topher Grace as Venom, or turn over Revival.
I understand now that I soloed more than I should have -- though you can see by the time of this post that I remain a working writer able to grab a mission now and then as a break.
Ah, yes, 10 in the morning. The classic time for... uh... what was I supposed to be able to tell by the time you're posting? :p
I will say I did solo a lot in CoH, after getting burned by my first SG being disbanded for no reason. I have mixed feelings about getting overly involved with people on the internet.
2. How can you screw up keeping a game in maintenance mode?
As I recall Sam Rami is not a fan of the symbiote characters and was told by the studio to shoehorn Venom into #3.
Yes, but fans who mention this are letting him off easy. The basic plot structure would have been very similar had they gone with Raimi's idea, with the Vulture filling in Venom's part in the plot; we would still have gotten the Peter/MJ break-up, we would still have gotten the Exposition Butler, we would still have gotten the cop-out of someone else murdering Uncle Ben...
It was a flawed production. The studio didn't improve it, but they don't bear all the blame either.
Yes, but fans who mention this are letting him off easy. The basic plot structure would have been very similar had they gone with Raimi's idea, with the Vulture filling in Venom's part in the plot; we would still have gotten the Peter/MJ break-up, we would still have gotten the Exposition Butler, we would still have gotten the cop-out of someone else murdering Uncle Ben...
It was a flawed production. The studio didn't improve it, but they don't bear all the blame either.
And don't forget, we would still have gotten the Peter dance scene.... that was all Rami
Well they had to keep from going Rated R so if it was a choice between a bloody violent Peter tearing into people due to the effects of the symbiote or seeing him as a dancing fool to keep the violence down.....
"Middle ground"? What's that?!
So no Silmarillion movie for you!
One thing that puzzled me with the LoTR movies. How the hell, in all that time wasting, did they STILL manage to completely forget about Tom Bombadil? They could have made his segment alone into another three movies! :P
So no Silmarillion movie for you!
Thank the gods for that!
One thing that puzzled me with the LoTR movies. How the hell, in all that time wasting, did they STILL manage to completely forget about Tom Bombadil? They could have made his segment alone into another three movies! :P
Just poking my head in to see if any progress has been announced. I figured not, since I've been speed-checking FaceBook almost daily (I figure news of City of Heroes' return will be shouted from the mountaintops there). The upcoming holiday season (actually, we're already hip-deep in it) has me and everyone, I'm sure, busy and only getting busier.
Still, as many have said before me, no news is good news. :)
Thank the gods for that!
One thing that puzzled me with the LoTR movies. How the hell, in all that time wasting, did they STILL manage to completely forget about Tom Bombadil? They could have made his segment alone into another three movies! :P
I think it was because the Tom Bombadil scenes make the hobbits look a lot less competent.
HOBBITS: "Oh no! We've been attacked by this evil tree and we're completely helpless!"
TOM: "Don't worry, old Tom Bombadil will save you! Now you're fine--to get out of my realm safely, just take the left-hand path to avoid the barrow-wights, and you'll be just fine!"
HOBBITS: "Let's strip naked and skip merrily down the right-hand path!"
TOM: "Oh FFS."
I don't know - while they will be authorized to sell the IP - I don't think they would have any say in your design. To run the classic game server and to authorize leases for the IP seems a relatively simple job. If they - as I would do in their shoes - had a word with the possible SCoRE folks and work on a stand alone version while still hosting the original server.
Can we please get a City of Heroes movie...
My most fervent hope is that the folks who would end up running the classic game are a CoRE group of developers who really understand the systems.
At this point, I wouldn't care much if it was Bill Gates himself that brings the game back as long as the game is back.
uhh... no...
the one thing I wished City of has was a zone with a beach, I know there were zones that had it, but I am referring to is zones like the secret world Kingsmouth. :)
I dunno about a city of heroes movie. Remember the directors who typically made movies based on video games always made sure there was no story, plot or anything. A city of heroes movie of such low caliber would kill the franchise.
There are worse people that could bring it back
I liked the National Lampoon version of the Lord of the Rings. I especially like the way they dealt with Tom (Benzedrine). The 'bard song' as interpreted by the lampooners was especially humorous.
Id just like an update of some kind.. even if it is.. still talking.. nothing new to report..
Still talking...It's going slowly, but that's to be expected over the holiday season, and in the wake of such events such as the Carbine layoffs... Nothing much new to report.
At least that's the latest news I've gotten as of a few days ago.
Still talking...It's going slowly, but that's to be expected over the holiday season, and in the wake of such events such as the Carbine layoffs... Nothing much new to report.that in its self is a good thing they are still talking :). Also I kinda knew we would not hear anything for the reminder of the year. Thank you btw for the mini update :)
At least that's the latest news I've gotten as of a few days ago.
that in its self is a good thing they are still talking :). Also I kinda knew we would not hear anything for the reminder of the year. Thank you btw for the mini update
that in its self is a good thing they are still talking :). Also I kinda knew we would not hear anything for the reminder of the year. Thank you btw for the mini update :)
I'm just worried that the longer this drags on, the more likely the NCSoft folks will swap chairs/leave positions and the whole thing get tossed or started over -- it's not exactly their primary business or way of doing things traditionally. Still, it's not like there's anything to be done about it ... I was spoiled by the heady days of summer when a deal looked right around the corner.
Well, yeah, I really hadn't thought of that, but I have been hoping against hope that this isn't some way of just putting us off eternally until Team Hail Mary gives up and goes away.
... keep in mind that ever hour someone at NCSoft is having to work with the team, or on the deal...is time and money spent out of their pocket.
I'm just worried that the longer this drags on, the more likely the NCSoft folks will swap chairs/leave positions and the whole thing get tossed or started over -- it's not exactly their primary business or way of doing things traditionally. Still, it's not like there's anything to be done about it ... I was spoiled by the heady days of summer when a deal looked right around the corner.
I think it's a good concern with no way to mitigate. Hopefully this will see a conclusion "soon". I am positive the people in the know will let us know when this comes to a conclusion or next chapter.
Okie dokie, we get it, you're a pessimist. Please don't bring the entire thread down. :)It's my point of view that since previous efforts were rebuffed and NCsoft certainly felt no need in the past to even pretend to be interested in selling that this is an authentic negotiation and not some sort of delaying tactic intended to let things peter out. Things could still fall through and require starting over, but that's always a possibility for any deal. At this point no news is no news. It's not especially good, but it is definitely not bad; at the very least it means that a deal is still in the works.
Okie dokie, we get it, you're a pessimist. Please don't bring the entire thread down. :)
Actually, I was just really, really, really, hoping for somebody to say "No. You're wrong."
3 months of "no news is good news" ... a complete lack of any indications of activity ... an indication of IN-activity ... at what point, barring a definitive "no" which might never come, should some other efforts move?
Actually, I was just really, really, really, hoping for somebody to say "No. You're wrong."There is never very much movement in the business world between Halloween and New Years. It especially slows down between Thanksgiving and New Years. And basically nothing happens at all in the week before or after Christmas.
3 months of "no news is good news" ... a complete lack of any indications of activity ... an indication of IN-activity ... at what point, barring a definitive "no" which might never come, should some other efforts move?
Now, like I said before, please stop bringing the entire thread down. We're here for support, not that other stuff.
Ooh, sorry -- I misunderstood. In which thread would such comments/speculation be appropriate?
This superhero community will live on regardless. There's CoT coming, maybe there's SCoRE sometime down the road.... And who knows, maybe someday there will be CoX Zombie Edition.
Hey, zombies are really making a comeback in gaming! DayZ, Walking Dead, Dead Island, and even possibly CoX.... :P
I know the common logic was that NCSoft hates CoH - that is not what I found.
They disliked certain members of that staff and some serious personality issue derailed the first deal.
NCSoft is still working with our folks and sometimes we forget that they don't make this kind of deal. They also are working slow no doubt because it is a new type of deal with a lot of moving parts. I have absolutely no doubt this will happen the company doesn't hate us.
Ooh, sorry -- I misunderstood. In which thread would such comments/speculation be appropriate?
There is never very much movement in the business world between Halloween and New Years. It especially slows down between Thanksgiving and New Years. And basically nothing happens at all in the week before or after Christmas.
Actually, I was just really, really, really, hoping for somebody to say "No. You're wrong."
3 months of "no news is good news" ... a complete lack of any indications of activity ... an indication of IN-activity ... at what point, barring a definitive "no" which might never come, should some other efforts move?
I know the common logic was that NCSoft hates CoH - that is not what I found.I agree, I do not think Nc Soft hates us or the other City of communities. This is the first of its kind with Nc Soft so they are taking their time. I also agree the first attempt might have been too soon imho they should have waited a half a year to calm down and enter the talks in a cool collected way.
They disliked certain members of that staff and some serious personality issue derailed the first deal.
NCSoft is still working with our folks and sometimes we forget that they don't make this kind of deal. They also are working slow no doubt because it is a new type of deal with a lot of moving parts. I have absolutely no doubt this will happen the company doesn't hate us.
I agree, I do not think Nc Soft hates us or the other City of communities. This is the first of its kind with Nc Soft so they are taking their time. I also agree the first attempt might have been too soon imho they should have waited a half a year to calm down and enter the talks in a cool collected way.
I have no doubt that we will get our home back it is just a matter of time. :) (this is just my theory)
There is never very much movement in the business world between Halloween and New Years. It especially slows down between Thanksgiving and New Years. And basically nothing happens at all in the week before or after Christmas.
I certainly can't speak for every business, but wow. I recently made a bit of a career changing move recently. Sort of, getting back to my original career path and using that degree that I pay for in the form of student loans repayment. And I cannot trust my eyes, so very little work gets done. I have a co-worker who shows up to work pretty much when the mood suits her - which admittedly is most of the time, but I've been there less than 2 full weeks and there have been two days when she's shown up 2 hours late. Our immediate supervisor runs to the neighborhood convenience store...2, maybe 3 times a day, plus three or four smoke breaks a day.. and the big boss, I know he stays later than all of us, but he never shows up before 10, and even then he'll head out to lunch and pretty much we'll be lucky to see him until the next day.
It is indeed a wonder ANYTHING ever gets done where I now work, regardless of what time of year it is.
/end rant
I don't know....at this point City of Titans may be out before we hear anything more. or is that just me?? :-\
Hey, In the sober light of a new day, I would like to express an apology to the thread, Agge, and especially Nate and his friends. Amidst the build discussions and Bombadil debate, I lost track of the purpose of this thread.
Someone from MwM come and slap me if I'm wrong but I think I recall this being basically a volunteer effort and that the kickstarter was to fund all things and software needed to make the game. Not to pay everyone making it.
Hey, In the sober light of a new day, I would like to express an apology to the thread, Agge, and especially Nate and his friends. Amidst the build discussions and Bombadil debate, I lost track of the purpose of this thread.
To continue the football (Holy Crap -- GO BUCKS!!?!*) analogy of our "Task Force Hail Mary" -- I am a face-painted screaming fan who hasn't actually done ANYTHING who grumbles that the crummy coaching staff oughta be fired because we aren't winning this game FAST ENOUGH! I'm not even in the stadium, I'm outside in the parking lot getting drunk and stuffing my face with Brats and mad because we're only up by 4 goals.
I think, especially, I was trying to goad information loose which is really not cool -- I allowed my frustration at the news blackout to overwhelm me.
I want to again thank everybody who is actually doing work on this or who has -- especially Nate and his Planeteers.
* for those not familiar with American College football, the Ohio State University Buckeyes, last night won their championship playoff, scoring 59-0 against the #2 ranked defense in the country, led by their 3rd string Quarterback who had never started a game, who had to take over when their 2nd-string broke his ankle last week
Hey, In the sober light of a new day, I would like to express an apology to the thread, Agge, and especially Nate and his friends. Amidst the build discussions and Bombadil debate, I lost track of the purpose of this thread.I understand having no news can be frustrating and while I cannot speak for everyone else I do think we all went down this road a few times :) For myself how I get by and not think about what is going on is I play the secret world and watch movies like the original Fog. :)
To continue the football (Holy Crap -- GO BUCKS!!?!*) analogy of our "Task Force Hail Mary" -- I am a face-painted screaming fan who hasn't actually done ANYTHING who grumbles that the crummy coaching staff oughta be fired because we aren't winning this game FAST ENOUGH! I'm not even in the stadium, I'm outside in the parking lot getting drunk and stuffing my face with Brats and mad because we're only up by 4 goals.
I think, especially, I was trying to goad information loose which is really not cool -- I allowed my frustration at the news blackout to overwhelm me.
I want to again thank everybody who is actually doing work on this or who has -- especially Nate and his Planeteers.
* for those not familiar with American College football, the Ohio State University Buckeyes, last night won their championship playoff, scoring 59-0 against the #2 ranked defense in the country, led by their 3rd string Quarterback who had never started a game, who had to take over when their 2nd-string broke his ankle last week
I won't stop until NCSoft says - we will never sell the game.
Still talking...It's going slowly, but that's to be expected over the holiday season, and in the wake of such events such as the Carbine layoffs... Nothing much new to report.I'll take it.
At least that's the latest news I've gotten as of a few days ago.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=m.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2Ffc%2Ffc2fca5cc8833d35c92822a6af386914480a4e7c2411a6329d9742eb6bc89110.jpg)Yes, that is what they are telling you. :)
This, and farther.
I've been dedicated to City of Heroes for over a decade, almost half my life. Why stop now, or ever?
Well here's something that could be delaying news.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2014/12/134_169593.html
Well here's something that could be delaying news.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2014/12/134_169593.html
Maybe I am missing something but a 0.4% purchase doesn't seem too significant to me.It's certainly not enough to have any direct effect on the negotiations. Now if the announcement had been that Nexon had purchased 73% and was planning to convert NCsoft to a bedding and bathroom accessory company, then that might've had a significant effect, but purchasing a few more shares doesn't affect ownership or much else to do with NCsoft's games and IP.
Maybe I am missing something but a 0.4% purchase doesn't seem too significant to me.It's not just .4%. It's a total of 15.1%. Their initial 14.7% purchase plus their affiliate's .4% brings them over the 15% FTC guidelines. More paperwork, etc., etc., etc. Potential delays, etc., etc., etc.
Slap me if I'm being silly, but IIRC, wasn't the last deal with Nexon the root cause behind our beloved CoH's cruel murder?
Slap me if I'm being silly, but IIRC, wasn't the last deal with Nexon the root cause behind our beloved CoH's cruel murder?
Only in the minds of forum conspiracy theorists.
Slap me if I'm being silly, but IIRC, wasn't the last deal with Nexon the root cause behind our beloved CoH's cruel murder?Not exactly, it may have been the motivating force.
Not exactly, it may have been the motivating force.
NCSoft wanted to merge with Nexon. At the time only one studio was losing money - Paragon Studio. If you want to merge and show that everything you have is in great shape - you cut all the losing titles. Paragon Studios as I said earlier was losing money - City of Heroes could not run and support 2 other titles. City of Heroes was also tied completely to Paragon Studios. So to pull everything back to Korean oversight and to cut losing titles, they killed PS and also therefore CoH.
Nexon is not the reason the killed the game but it was the motivating factor.
Yes, they started negotiations even before the sunset. I remember articles from the golden age (just before we knew we were getting kicked out).
Not exactly, it may have been the motivating force.
NCSoft wanted to merge with Nexon. At the time only one studio was losing money - Paragon Studio. If you want to merge and show that everything you have is in great shape - you cut all the losing titles. Paragon Studios as I said earlier was losing money - City of Heroes could not run and support 2 other titles. City of Heroes was also tied completely to Paragon Studios. So to pull everything back to Korean oversight and to cut losing titles, they killed PS and also therefore CoH.
Nexon is not the reason the killed the game but it was the motivating factor.
So they expected Paragon to develop 2 titles out of the profit from Coh? Wow. That seems ... Implosive.
So they expected Paragon to develop 2 titles out of the profit from Coh? Wow. That seems ... Implosive.
Not sure who or what was behind that. It was all part of the NDA signed when they left and we never really got to hear what they were making. I heard rumors of a minecraft clone but only rumors. I wouldn't say that was the deal.
At the peak before shutdown Paragon had 80+ employees most of which were programmers of some sort.
Not exactly, it may have been the motivating force.
NCSoft wanted to merge with Nexon. At the time only one studio was losing money - Paragon Studio. If you want to merge and show that everything you have is in great shape - you cut all the losing titles. Paragon Studios as I said earlier was losing money - City of Heroes could not run and support 2 other titles. City of Heroes was also tied completely to Paragon Studios. So to pull everything back to Korean oversight and to cut losing titles, they killed PS and also therefore CoH.
Nexon is not the reason they killed the game but it was the motivating factor.
Yep, that's pretty much what I remembered. Seeing as NCSoft were PS's parent company, it seems likely it was NCSoft who had PS making those 2 other titles in the first place, and under-development titles NEVER make money until they're released, so PS losing money was NC's fault entirely. One cannot expect the modest profits of one old title to fully support the development costs of two new ones...
I doubt they did, otherwise the projects would have been stopped long, long ago.
No news is NOT good news. It is just nothing. Let's not pretend this is a good thing. I am frustrated as are so many others on here. I know we are to be patient and thank our lucky stars that we have ANY chance whatsoever for a resurrection but it does not make the pain of waiting any better to be told "no news is good news."
... people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal... We know for a fact that is what's is going on. We aren't making that part up NCSoft let them release that part out to the public.
We are standing in the dark with our torches burning and we can see in the distance a small pinpoint of light, don't drop the torch yet.
I fail to understand how having people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal - is somehow bad news?
IW,It's in the front page of both this and the original thread. A number was given and was deemed doable. That is "agreeing to sell" - now there is just negotiations on what happens then.
unless I missed something, which is easy in 600+ pages, that's the first I heard of them "agreeing to sell." Which is awesomtastic, but somehow I feel like I'm mis interpreting this statement.
Yes, no news means the folks under NDA are still working and working is going forward. If they say - the deal is over NCSoft won't sell - that is bad news.
I would like you to explain to me how people under an NDA can give us news? It's only a handful of people and if they were to blow it now to mollify a few folks who are impatient and made NCSoft withdraw - how bad would that be?
I fail to understand how having people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal - is somehow bad news? We know for a fact that is what's is going on. We aren't making that part up NCSoft let them release that part out to the public.
We are standing in the dark with our torches burning and we can see in the distance a small pinpoint of light, don't drop the torch yet.
IW,
unless I missed something, which is easy in 600+ pages, that's the first I heard of them "agreeing to sell." Which is awesomtastic, but somehow I feel like I'm mis interpreting this statement.
Yes, no news means the folks under NDA are still working and working is going forward. If they say - the deal is over NCSoft won't sell - that is bad news.
I would like you to explain to me how people under an NDA can give us news? It's only a handful of people and if they were to blow it now to mollify a few folks who are impatient and made NCSoft withdraw - how bad would that be?
Yes, no news means the folks under NDA are still working and working is going forward. If they say - the deal is over NCSoft won't sell - that is bad news.
I would like you to explain to me how people under an NDA can give us news? It's only a handful of people and if they were to blow it now to mollify a few folks who are impatient and made NCSoft withdraw - how bad would that be?
I fail to understand how having people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal - is somehow bad news? We know for a fact that is what's is going on. We aren't making that part up NCSoft let them release that part out to the public.
We are standing in the dark with our torches burning and we can see in the distance a small pinpoint of light, don't drop the torch yet.
We can all take heart in this.... not a question of "If" but more like "when".... and wasn't "Patience" on the Virtue server? ;D
Yes, no news means the folks under NDA are still working and working is going forward. If they say - the deal is over NCSoft won't sell - that is bad news.
I would like you to explain to me how people under an NDA can give us news? It's only a handful of people and if they were to blow it now to mollify a few folks who are impatient and made NCSoft withdraw - how bad would that be?
I fail to understand how having people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal - is somehow bad news? We know for a fact that is what's is going on. We aren't making that part up NCSoft let them release that part out to the public.
We are standing in the dark with our torches burning and we can see in the distance a small pinpoint of light, don't drop the torch yet.
My torch has been low for the past 2 months now. When Ironwolf gave me some encouragement my torch lid up a little bit. I still have hope and faith that we're all going to come back home soon. Sometimes I feel depressed because it's been 2 years of the shut down already.your not alone in thinking like this, I too sometimes want to know what is going on. Then I remember that I am not apart of the team. I know sometimes I wish I could hoop and holler about no new news but then I remember what I have done in the past. So even though I am sure a lot of people have seen me log in to this website, what might not be known is that I am busy doing other things such as watching youtube videos, watching dvd's, doing homework, or playing the secret world.
uuuummmmm.. I wasnt paying attention and I set my hair on fire...anybody got some neosporin? maybe a lot of bandaids??is there an empath in the house??
uuuummmmm.. I wasnt paying attention and I set my hair on fire...anybody got some neosporin? maybe a lot of bandaids??is there an empath in the house??
My Empath is facepalming then. You made her feel a lot of pain in her head just for doing that and your asking her to help you when you weren't paying attention and set your hair on fire. *Casts heal other but then grabs a bucket, fills it with especially cold water out of the cold pipes of the winter, dumps some ice and then dumps it on Ivan's head!*.
"Stop hurting yourself you masochist!"
Next alt: Empath/water blast for teammates that set their hair on fire
Just a trick arrow defender. If you hold still, I can shoot the fire out.
Healz Arrows ftw!!!
Healz Arrows ftw!!!
Yes, no news means the folks under NDA are still working and working is going forward. If they say - the deal is over NCSoft won't sell - that is bad news.
I would like you to explain to me how people under an NDA can give us news? It's only a handful of people and if they were to blow it now to mollify a few folks who are impatient and made NCSoft withdraw - how bad would that be?
I fail to understand how having people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal - is somehow bad news? We know for a fact that is what's is going on. We aren't making that part up NCSoft let them release that part out to the public.
We are standing in the dark with our torches burning and we can see in the distance a small pinpoint of light, don't drop the torch yet.
Corporate deals like this just do NOT have their details discussed openly with anyone who isn't involved directly with the negotiations. We've seen this pop up in these threads all the time "why don't we get more info". "Why is it taking so long" a lot of people just have not had any experience with corporate dealings and their expectations do not line up with reality. Now I'm not saying that as "ha you're stupid for not knowing this" or pointing fingers at anyone. But the ebb and flow and pacing of these kinds of deals can sometimes be hard to wrap your head around until you've experienced them first hand.Maybe just copy and paste these two posts in lieu of "No news is good news". :) They sound more logical and less like a t-shirt.
Even if they gave us an update like "we've agreed on accounts, the image of the game and the IP, now working on the royalties and marketing". In two weeks time all of what they said could be completely different. And having all that play out in the public eye be make negotiations even more of an hardship then they already are. And then the speed of things, its not like buying a car or even a house. Proposals and agreements are done through talks, maybe a few days there with the back and forth. Papers are drawn by legal with what was agreed on. Coupe weeks to months there depending on the lawyers. Papers sent to other party, their legal goes over it, again a few weeks there. Changes are made, counter proposal drawn up, again could be a few weeks there. Now back and forth like that, with it changing and growing more involved the more things are added. This is not just sit on the phone for a few hours and hash things out.
Toss in the research time on what can be sold, the need to prove technical competency, etc. Its going to take a long time. And ye, while it might not feel good, the addage no news is good news. Really is good news. Because they can't or shouldn't talk about the on going negotiations we can only expect one of two real updates, We got it, or Talks are off.
NCSoft as a corporation will not drag this out just to drag it out as some kind of spiteful act. Doing things like this does cost them money in resources and man hours. Which the dept that is in charge of the negotiations has to, like all parts of a corporation, justify their dept budget. And however much their salaries plus billable hours from legal need to have a reason more than "we wanted to mess with the American gamers" behind them or someones getting fired :-)
And as emotionally invested as we all are in this game, we have zero actual monetary investment as a player base.... well potential playerbase , we'll know what happened when we get one of those two answers, we just have to wait
Once lawyers get involved the wheels come off.Careful the way you word things. Your word is "gospel" to most. Just watch this quote be taken as negative news. ;D
Careful the way you word things. Your word is "gospel" to most. Just watch this quote be taken as negative news. ;D
Once lawyers get involved the wheels come off. (attempt at humor for those parsing every word)
As a lawyer, I resemble this remark.
As a lawyer, I resemble this remark.
I one time had to get some "non-approved" software installed for a new project and it took me 3 months to get legal and the software approval guys to say yes to just clicking on the - I agree to these terms box so I could install it.
We can all take heart in this.... not a question of "If" but more like "when".... and wasn't "Patience" on the Virtue server?
Didn't any self-repecting Altaholic have alts on all servers? I know I did.
Didn't any self-repecting Altaholic have alts on all servers? I know I did.
Didn't any self-repecting Altaholic have alts on all servers? I know I did.I did not have any alts on Freedom. Other than that, I had at least half a dozen characters on each other the other servers. Infinity and Champion had the most characters, followed by Justice and Guardian. Also, had a SG and/or VG on each server. Except Freedom, of course.
I'm honestly not sure that I DID have alts on all the servers. I don't recall all my characters now, but I'm sure that on one server (Liberty?) I didn't have anything except my Steven Colbert tribute "Alpha 7".My Colbert tribute was Captain Truthiness. Inv/SS Tanker. One of his costumes was even a Tek Jansen costume.
Ah, Hah! For better or worse, I found it in some of my old CoH files:
Power Set Name: Power of Attorney
Primary/Secondary/Pool: Primary
AT: Mastermind
Note: This set deals mostly psi damage; because of this, overall set damage is fairly low. Pets have inherent psi resistance as well as confusion and fear resistance, and can super jump for some strange reason. . . . <Snip!>
Not only alts on every server, but an SG/VG as well!
Very true, sorry for the injected humor :DIn other words... Get out and push.
What I mean is lawyers move very slowly and for good reason in transferring something like this. I mean let's think like logical people and we make a deal buying the IP and all the goodies and we move forward and the lawyer says, wait you want to install and run the game too? Well that requires these 25 forms to be filled out. I know where I work that is what happens.
I one time had to get some "non-approved" software installed for a new project and it took me 3 months to get legal and the software approval guys to say yes to just clicking on the - I agree to these terms box so I could install it.
So lawyers add the final level of insanity to a slow process.
Ah Yes! A RL Friend of mine loved tinkering with the SG Base Builder, and we grouped our alts together on each server to make a semi-private SG with Base for quick transport and storage of goodies. Worked out quite well for the basics, and no devisive SG politicking needed.
NCSoft as a corporation will not drag this out just to drag it out as some kind of spiteful act. Doing things like this does cost them money in resources and man hours. Which the dept that is in charge of the negotiations has to, like all parts of a corporation, justify their dept budget. And however much their salaries plus billable hours from legal need to have a reason more than "we wanted to mess with the American gamers" behind them or someones getting fired :-)Not to say it doesn't happen like that. See FFXIV. "We just want to mess with the American Gamers" was totally a thing, and they DID get fired.
Not to say it doesn't happen like that. See FFXIV. "We just want to mess with the American Gamers" was totally a thing, and they DID get fired.
Hopefully that's just not the case HERE. For both parties.
I may be wrong but with just a disk image to run the game - it would be quite likely the game will come back with all servers in place.
Just firing it up and setting it up as it was in the past would be by far the easiest way to go. That could change as the new owners learn more about the game but I would think that would be the best way to do it.
You have the map servers that run the actual game you see and then multiple database servers to tie to whatever database you need to reach.
I guess a lot of the technical details we will find out as they go. I am just thinking if you just have those images they may point to specific addresses that you will need to recreate for them to sync properly. I am certain throw a little money at one of the original techs - who must be known by someone, to help the starting setup and you would be good.
I know if I were running it the goal would be get it running, put it in Beta and work out how to get paid for it all in that order. You need people to test it all and we know a lot of folks who would love to do it for them.
You have the map servers that run the actual game you see and then multiple database servers to tie to whatever database you need to reach.
I guess a lot of the technical details we will find out as they go. I am just thinking if you just have those images they may point to specific addresses that you will need to recreate for them to sync properly. I am certain throw a little money at one of the original techs - who must be known by someone, to help the starting setup and you would be good.
I know if I were running it the goal would be get it running, put it in Beta and work out how to get paid for it all in that order. You need people to test it all and we know a lot of folks who would love to do it for them.
ME ME ME ME ME ... sorry I guess that is obvious :p
ME ME ME ME ME ... sorry I guess that is obvious :p
I'd sign up right away for it.pick me... pick me... pick me :D I would sign up for the beta in a instant. :) (even though after doing the beta for sto and co caused me not to do another beta. I would do one for City of. :) )
I think its safe to say everyone on Titan would line up to beta test :)
I just retired, and would be totally there for Beta testing, just say the word! See how confident I am that the return of our City will one day happen? :D
I payed a Subscription the entire 7 years I played the game until they would not let me throw money at them anymore. I have no issue with subbing again. :D
I think its safe to say everyone on Titan would line up to beta test :)
I hope everybody is as willing to pay a sub when the time comes for that, too. ;) Because of course, no money = no City. ;)
I paid for a sub since September of 2004 and a second sub from 2007 till shutdown. I just need to know who to pay now and I would. I'm ready to play, in fact past ready.
I paid for one sub the entire time the game was live and for about 2 years I had 2 accounts.
I have also promised to start an advertising fund and seed it with $250 a year to get the word out.
Ah Yes! A RL Friend of mine loved tinkering with the SG Base Builder...
I have also promised to start an advertising fund and seed it with $250 a year to get the word out.
Ah, I like the sound of that. That helps put some of my concerns to rest. I guess in my eagerness I keep thinking "okay, if this deal works out, then the servers will be turned on THE NEXT DAY," rather than thinking that's most likely not how this stuff goes, haha. I , for one, would be all about Beta-ing that...
...obviously XD
A sub? I'd jam my CC number into the box so hard and fast, even Superman would wince!
If Superman is wincing, you MAY be jamming said card into a wrong box. Just sayin'...
Yeah, I was wondering where he was shoving the card as well... :oapparently, in the excitement of jamming the CC into a box, there was an issue with the accuracy of said jamming. Probably because there wasn't enough Endurance to keep Tactics up and there weren't enough ACC enhancements slotted to help counter the -to hit from the excitement.
I would not be surprised if the servers were up very quickly after the deal is complete. It may well be part of the deal to make sure they are functioning prior to the sale - I know I would want them up to insure I have all the working parts before I handed over a suitcase full of money. That might be part of what is taking time as well.
I guess would you buy some disk images for a couple hundred thousand at least on the - trust us it all works from NCSoft or any other company? That is why I said deals like this have a lot of moving parts. If you were purchasing this you would want at least one server up - it actually makes me smile to think someone out there may have the disks running and is testing it.
A sub? I'd jam my CC number into the box so hard and fast, even Superman would wince!
I would not be surprised if the servers were up very quickly after the deal is complete. It may well be part of the deal to make sure they are functioning prior to the sale - I know I would want them up to insure I have all the working parts before I handed over a suitcase full of money. That might be part of what is taking time as well.To those trying to read into every word Ironwolf says: servers...up...deal is complete. trust us it all works...one server up...testing it.
I guess would you buy some disk images for a couple hundred thousand at least on the - trust us it all works from NCSoft or any other company? That is why I said deals like this have a lot of moving parts. If you were purchasing this you would want at least one server up - it actually makes me smile to think someone out there may have the disks running and is testing it.
Yeah, I was wondering where he was shoving the card as well... :o
I would not be surprised if the servers were up very quickly after the deal is complete. It may well be part of the deal to make sure they are functioning prior to the sale - I know I would want them up to insure I have all the working parts before I handed over a suitcase full of money. That might be part of what is taking time as well.
I guess would you buy some disk images for a couple hundred thousand at least on the - trust us it all works from NCSoft or any other company? That is why I said deals like this have a lot of moving parts. If you were purchasing this you would want at least one server up - it actually makes me smile to think someone out there may have the disks running and is testing it.
Been lurking for a while, only after I checked out Valiance Online did something occur to me. It seems like, between the entire demographic of people who want a City of (fill in potentiality here) revival in one form or another, there is a quiet (and sometimes not so quiet) animosity towards NCSoft amongst some people. There are people like me, who want any form of the game to come back, regardless of the ownership, and who may or may not be satisfied with Champions, Valiance etc. And I'm sure there are others that want nothing to do with NCSoft, after the collective head and heartbreak they've dished out. Most notably I see this from those who were involved with user petitions towards CoH's closure, and were pretty much ignored. There are some extremely distrusting folks out there, and rightfully so.
What I'm afraid of is that some people may see good news, such as a deal being made, flock to it, see the NCSoft tag and turn cheek. Now believe me, I myself am not particularly happy with NCSoft, but I never expected them to keep the game running out of the charity of their hearts. I would love nothing more than to wake up one morning, check the news as I do, and see Paragon City, and especially the Rogue Isles open again. At the same time, I wouldn't mind seeing a project like Valiance (the alpha beta shows some promise, with frequent updates) and Titan make headway without NCSoft overhead.
I think I had something to ask everyone, but after all that I lost it. Something about how bound to NCSoft you might think a City of X revival might be, or how much involvement everyone would prefer to have. NCSoft undoubtedly has resources to offer, its just considering what will come with it.
I think I had something to ask everyone, but after all that I lost it. Something about how bound to NCSoft you might think a City of X revival might be, or how much involvement everyone would prefer to have. NCSoft undoubtedly has resources to offer, its just considering what will come with it.
There is absolutely no way NCSoft will let their credits be removed from the game. Like them or not, they brought the game back from the brink when they acquired it from Cryptic, and they want their work to be represented. It's the same reason as why Cryptic's logos were still in the game after they no longer owned the rights to it.
If people have a problem with that, they're just going to have to deal with it. Though I can't imagine people being so petty as to refuse to go back to a game they claim to love just because it has someone's logo on it.
There is absolutely no way NCSoft will let their credits be removed from the game. Like them or not, they brought the game back from the brink when they acquired it from Cryptic, and they want their work to be represented. It's the same reason as why Cryptic's logos were still in the game after they no longer owned the rights to it.
If people have a problem with that, they're just going to have to deal with it. Though I can't imagine people being so petty as to refuse to go back to a game they claim to love just because it has someone's logo on it.
I think the logical end question is not just about logos, but how much actual involvement NCsoft has with the game. Based on what I've read here, it seems like the answer is "none," which will help. If they still manage or are involved with the IP licensing company, that might be an issue.
I am the exact opposite of those NCSoft naysayers. While I have only ever played one other NCSoft game (Guild Wars 2 for like a week)... I will say this: I am very grateful to NCSoft.
I never played an MMO until I played CoH... not one. Heck aside from some Super Mario Brothers... I never played video games. I started CoH a few weeks after launch..and played it until the last second. I had 3 accounts...all VIP... one at the start...one in late 2004..and another from March 2005. So why am I grateful to NCSoft...the company that closed down the only game I ever loved? Because if it weren't for them...I never would have had experienced CoH. 8 years I played CoH... hundreds of characters...hundreds (ok thousands) of hours of fun...all thanks in no small part to NCSoft. So why would I be angry at them? 8 years... that's a lot longer than I thought I would get. There was a time when things looked bleak in 2006 that Cryptic was going to focus less on CoH due to their deal for their planned Marvel game...this worried me greatly. Then when it came down to it... NCSoft took over as Cryptic exited the picture...in essence saving City of Heroes. So while others hold a grudge and vow to not come back if NCSoft has anything to do with the game...I hold no ill will towards the company that gave me 8 years of a wonderful game.
Was I angry when the announcement came...yes among other emotions. Did I attend the Unity rally...yes I did (AP 6). Did I sign the online petition...donate to the dev dinner.. yep. But you know what happened shortly after the closure...I came to the realization that what they did was justified in their eyes. Could it have been handled better..absolutely. Do people and businesses make mistakes.. uh yes. Do I think NCSoft regrets what they did... yes I do. I had several correspondences with people at NCSoft after the closure...and I can with all honesty say that they felt bad for the way things were handled. BUT... business is business and we don't always agree with decisions that are made by those with much higher positions than ourselves :)
Anyways... I tend to ramble. I just wanted to say that NCSoft is not the devil that some people try to make them out to be...and if people still after all this time can't see the good that NCSoft gave us...that's on them. I know I am grateful to NCSoft for letting me do something no other game has been able to do for me since 11/30/2012.
Really good point, about the involvement. Even if NCSoft were involved, I would probably still play the game. But I would also be nervous, given what happened last time. It comes down to trust for me, more than it does to anger or vengeance. I would probably be less attached to the game; I wouldn't allow myself to get too attached for fear of repeating history.
What makes me a bit more trusting here is that, while CoH would come back in maintenance mode, there would be other projects involved. That, for some reason, gives me a more stable foundation to work with than if it was just CoH coming back.
But, as you said, it seems like NCSoft would have little, if any, involvement, so I don't have trust issues. And the logo being there is not a personal affront to me.
I care nothing about the logo. They have the right to be recognized for the effort they put into the game. But, even my resolve is being tested by their business methodology. I know, I know! Have faith....no news is good news! I am trying, but even Joan of Arc would be having a crisis of faith by now! :o
As I stated in the other thread... this pace is to be expected when dealing with what we are dealing with (disk image) and an international deal. I have seen deals of much smaller components take up to 1.5 years due to small hiccups. The problem is ... people expecting things to happen too quickly... that type of thinking is unrealistic and does nothing but lower morale and is a complete disservice to those fighting/negotiating to bring back CoH.
I think the logical end question is not just about logos, but how much actual involvement NCsoft has with the game. Based on what I've read here, it seems like the answer is "none," which will help. If they still manage or are involved with the IP licensing company, that might be an issue.
I think the logical end question is not just about logos, but how much actual involvement NCsoft has with the game. Based on what I've read here, it seems like the answer is "none," which will help. If they still manage or are involved with the IP licensing company, that might be an issue.
What would happen is that a new company would be created, if everything goes well, with members from NCSoft and members who work at Missing Worlds Media to control and support the City of Heroes IP, which would then license it out to, for example, City of Titans or other places that seemed interested. So, it's kind of a one arm's reach sort of thing to protect both sides involved.
Is Chris' statement just a different way of saying the same info as in Nate Downes' announcement? Or did Chris indicate some different/additional info?
Unless Nate Downes explicitly posts it or says it directly then it's not news and just conjecture as we all sit in the Vacuum waiting for the Big Annoucement.bingo :D, it would be interesting if the nc soft had a few ex workers or a few to over see the handling company is keeping good with the city of ip.
Unless Nate Downes explicitly posts it or says it directly then it's not news and just conjecture
We gotta get the game working first. And that's what my focus is on these days. If I can get the game working, then I can prove to these people that we are a serious business. They're talking to us, and that's great. But we have to show before we can do.
On 12/5/2014, Chris "Warcabbit" Hare was interviewed on episode 76 of the Rolling 20s podcast (http://www.missionstartpodcast.com/podcasts/the-rolling-20s-ep76-we-wake-the-titans). Chris comes on at the 2:08 mark. He described the plan to acquire the CoH IP:It is essentially the same information as Nate's announcement.
Had it been specified elsewhere that the holding company will consist of "members from NCSoft and members who work at Missing Worlds Media"? Does this mean that NCSoft will be part of the holding company and be involved ongoing in licensing the CoH IP?
Is Chris' statement just a different way of saying the same info as in Nate Downes' announcement? Or did Chris indicate some different/additional info?
I have no problem with this happening - the IP will remain - sort of - in NCSoft's reach.
However what steps are happening towards firing up the old game is our question? Is a group working towards getting that running?
The ONLY critical question in my mind is will the holding company be PREVENTING IP use or ENABLING IP use.Some of the people involved in setting up the deal have explicitly stated that the whole point to the holding company is to allow other companies to use the IP in games and other media. You know how you prevent IP use? Leave the situation exactly how it is now. That's why NCsoft shut the game down the way it did in the first place; not to sell it, but to preserve proof of the IP. The entire point of the holding company concept is to make the IP accessible by others.
If somebody reverse-engineers a stand-alone server software, will the holding company be more/equally likely than NCSoft to aggressively pursue/prosecute its distribution or will they license it for a nominal fee to enable anybody who wants to play with the toys to have at it? Will it be closer to APR gets the keys or will it be closer to open-source.
But obviously nobody will know this until after the ink/blood is dry on the signatures.
Some of the people involved in setting up the deal have explicitly stated that the whole point to the holding company is to allow other companies to use the IP in games and other media. You know how you prevent IP use? Leave the situation exactly how it is now. That's why NCsoft shut the game down the way it did in the first place; not to sell it, but to preserve proof of the IP. The entire point of the holding company concept is to make the IP accessible by others.
In short, someone's going to be there to make sure the holding company doesn't throw the CoH name on The Hitler Follies of 2045, an all-singing, all-dancing, all-torture extravaganza.
Why the negativity? If they wanted it prevented they simply do NOTHING.I agree with this statement, if this means we get our home back then I am all for it.
If they designate someone from their company to oversee the distribution of the CoH Ip - does that sound like they don't want to sell? Remember here - money is changing hands.
I heard no mention of making the IP available for private servers at all. If the deal goes through then private servers would damage the profitability of the COH franchise. Plus I see no need for private servers ...
I would be shoving it in so hard it would go through every orifice in the universe, simultaneously!
So do you guys want CoH back or not? Its getting hard to tell.
Sure seems like a lot this and that stipulations flying around.
Seeing how everyone has so many better ideas of how the game should be returned perhaps they should take over the talks. Get in contact with NCSoft, and then *demand* these things. See how well that works.
To be honest, I would be content with a cookie with a Stateman logo right now. Actually probably should go make one.
So do you guys want CoH back or not? Its getting hard to tell.
Sure seems like a lot this and that stipulations flying around.
Seeing how everyone has so many better ideas of how the game should be returned perhaps they should take over the talks. Get in contact with NCSoft, and then *demand* these things. See how well that works.
In short, someone's going to be there to make sure the holding company doesn't throw the CoH name on The Hitler Follies of 2045, an all-singing, all-dancing, all-torture extravaganza.It's springtime for Lord Recluse, and the Rogue Isles are smiling... ;D
So do we go back in time and kill the Developers or The Producers?As long as we can get a Zero Mostel or Gene Wilder singing number, I'm ok with either. :)
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1972291_10152239888553908_899318350_n.jpg?oh=83ec5c4bc8359c85153dc6b6f8e050d7&oe=54F911D9)Perfect.
I think there is control and then there is involvement.
If I were NCSoft and paid any attention to gamers, I would play this up as us listening to the gamers. That they "found a way" to bring back an old favorite. They may get a cut of leases for the IP - which would be fair enough and have their name on the game and its websites - which again to me is fair enough.
I never started this entire thing on anything but a business standpoint - I did not care why it was shut as much as would they listen to an effort to buy or return it? Yes, was the word I recieved back - they would listen - in their way. A number of people approached them but in a way that was contrary to their accepted business practices.
Know your enemy and try to make him your friend is one of the first rules of business. If you think NCSoft is bloodthirsty you really need to read about IBM and Intel. IBM started the term FUD Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. I am a huge nerd and some of the stories about what IBM used to do and what Intel did and does do to any threat is very interesting reading. In November 2009, Intel agreed to pay AMD $1.25 billion as part of a deal to settle all outstanding legal disputes between the two companies. It also involved a lot of cross license agreement equal to about $5 billion.
Hm,,,,, "Hail NCsoft"? nah, that's a bit much don't you think? :)(https://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s2/HarpoSpoke/hail-hydra_zps6dcc9b63.jpg)
(https://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s2/HarpoSpoke/hail-hydra_zps6dcc9b63.jpg)
(https://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s2/HarpoSpoke/hail-hydra_zps6dcc9b63.jpg)
It's all fun and games until someone kills the thread...
Activate Howling Twilight - it sounds so cool.
It's all fun and games until someone kills the thread...
I'm still lurking....I feel ya, I too have been lurking, every so often I post something. :)
How... sinister. Lol!(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=bigbible.org.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2Flurking.jpg)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=bigbible.org.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2Flurking.jpg)
Here's an idea, instead of having to lurk here for updates and instead getting the same old "no news is good news"; why don't we start an email list. That way where there is an update in the months or years it takes of good news/silence; we can have the news sent to our email.
me, I check this thread at least... 5 times a day. Just for new news!
Same! 5 times is a generous understatement, but it's the same kind of thing. This and "New Efforts" get the refresh button all the time.
I will keep checking, no matter how long it takes. At some point, I know I will be rewarded with good news.
Since we're confessing... me too... :-[
I come check a few times a day. Not to check for news in my case, but rather see if there's any questions that need my attention.
-shrugs-
I check these threads more than probably any other person on this board. :p
what did the nemesis fox say?
what did the nemesis fox say?
I was checking numerous times a day. Now I'm down to just once or so.
:P
Clank clank clank a-clank-a-clank-clank!
....... No? Hmmm. Let's see.
Oh! I've got it!
I'm steampunk and I know it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V714cfhgE0I)! wigglewigglewigglewigglewiggle yeah
I check these threads more than probably any other person on this board. :pi'll take you up on that bet :D
I check these threads more than probably any other person on this board. :p
I will keep checking, no matter how long it takes. At some point, I know I will be rewarded with good news.
see thats the point. Many people are checking and hoping for updates. That leads to posts asking "is there any news?". Which leads to posts "no news is good news" and " obviously with NDA they can't give us news". I think an email list would help with this. Then the news will come to us when there is news. Moreover, if this is a future company this would be an invaluable marketing tool.
i'll take you up on that bet :DAs the main moderator, I keep a close eye here. You all are generally pretty good, but there's always the occasional ruffled feathers, oversnark, or even outright rageface explosion (very few of those these days, thanks guys and gals and otherwise!). As such I check almost hourly. This is my link to the forums: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?action=unread
\o/ Happy and Prosperous New Year to all! \o/
And since it's 2015, I fully expect to see flying cars, hoverboards, power laces, and hydratable pizzas by the end of the year. Somebody get on that!
Add Virtual Reality to that list to. Can you imagine CoH with Virtual Reality? *mind blown*.
I'd have multiple personalities. :(
... considering experimenting with Revival and Oculus Rift.
As the main moderator, I keep a close eye here. You all are generally pretty good, but there's always the occasional ruffled feathers, oversnark, or even outright rageface explosion (very few of those these days, thanks guys and gals and otherwise!). As such I check almost hourly. This is my link to the forums: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?action=unread
I see almost literally everything here...if there's been a huge flurry of posts I might skim instead of reading every one, but otherwise I'm like Santa Claus - I'm always watching! Be nice! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Dude, oversnark is one of my primary powers.... Don't gimp me!
Just imagine. (http://youtu.be/dWXNYOxf9qA)
I can imagine some crazy chick considering experimenting with Revival and Oculus Rift.
-looks around innocently-
*Crickets*
Slow here today. . .
I hope lurkers don't see the inactivity and think "welp, it's dead." It's not. This topic has a purpose, and until we have more info on that purpose, there's not much to talk about. Give it time. The "New efforts" thread seems to have more general discussion on the matter if you're itching to see some active discussion here.
And we continue to wait.
It's too bad there wasn't a website front page for all this, but I am certain when things are more concrete something will come.
As always thank you for those involved who are working on the Deal of the Century.
It only took 4 months for the stream of consciousness to become a trickle... Give it time. I'm still expecting real movement by the end of the fiscal quarter (March 2015)
Based on any real intel, or just intuition?Pure procrastinator's instinct. March is roughly the end of the business year and my hope it's a loose end they tie up.
Pure procrastinator's instinct. March is roughly the end of the business year and my hope it's a loose end they tie up.
Not everywhere runs April to March you know. That's rather a western thing... Even then, not all companies work to that fiscal year.Surely Korea works sometime.
Surely Korea works sometime.
I mean, I already wondered if they would slow down during the holidays and was informed they do indeed have the same holiday tradition. So at some point, they've got to go back to work like the West, right?
I'd be surprised if 3 people total at NCSoft are even aware that there are talks to license out the IP.
Well, actually... an old friend of mine I recently found out works for NCSoft in Texas as QA, and he was aware of the talks :P
Still, your point is taken, despite my ongoing optimism about returning home to the Rogue Isles
I doubt he had enough interest in the game to seek out this forum. I assume it was from virtue of working there, but as we were busy with the Evolve alpha at the time, it only came up briefly.We have had a fair amount of publicity since Ironwolf started. There's also the big stink that went up around September-ish time, where a large number of gamer sites picked up on the effort with Nate's announcement. It's a constant comment item in most of the City Facebook and etc groups. We don't exist in a vacuum here :-)
We have had a fair amount of publicity since Ironwolf started. There's also the big stink that went up around September-ish time, where a large number of gamer sites picked up on the effort with Nate's announcement. It's a constant comment item in most of the City Facebook and etc groups. We don't exist in a vacuum here :-)
Well, yes, but it would be good if people could realize without being continually reminded that rezzing a zombie shutdown version of a long-shuttered game is the least of NCSoft's priorities, I'm sorry. But they wouldn't have shut down the game in the first place if it was important in any way. I'll be first in line to play it if and when it comes back, but it isn't going to be under the development of Paragon Studios, nor will it have updates or even bug fixes. It's just a life-support version of a game that probably no one at NCSoft but the one guy Nate & Crew are currently talking to even knows might get rezzed. I'd be surprised if 3 people total at NCSoft are even aware that there are talks to license out the IP.
Still, the hoping of a core group of former players (of which I am definitely one!) has little to do with the actual priority level of CoX at NCSoft these days. People are getting way too antsy over a game that clearly was thought so little of that it was shuttered in the first place. I seriously doubt that rezzing it or licensing its IP are a big focus for NCSoft or that they have many people working on this.
And it will be a big job for a small group of people (and something they're doing around their jobs and families no less) to bring everything up to the pro level needed to rez and run a game, never mind make other pro games based off its IP, but all that has to happen to NCSoft's satisfaction before the wheels begin turning enough to satisfy many people here. We'll be lucky if anything at all ever happens, so let's try not to get too impatient. :)
Well, yes, but it would be good if people could realize without being continually reminded that rezzing a zombie shutdown version of a long-shuttered game is the least of NCSoft's priorities, I'm sorry. But they wouldn't have shut down the game in the first place if it was important in any way. I'll be first in line to play it if and when it comes back, but it isn't going to be under the development of Paragon Studios, nor will it have updates or even bug fixes. It's just a life-support version of a game that probably no one at NCSoft but the one guy Nate & Crew are currently talking to even knows might get rezzed. I'd be surprised if 3 people total at NCSoft are even aware that there are talks to license out the IP.You may have mistaken my intent...I agree with everything you said. I'm not really that impatient. (any more than could be expected)
So please, peeps, temper your thoughts with patience. It could be summer, or next fall, or never. Let's just hope against hope that it is actually *sometime.*
And, well, of the three, city of heroes was the most entertaining and I generally never got bored playing it. Enemies were actually a danger to me and had a variety that made them interesting. Powersets were different in feel and actual practice. Controllers weren't just batteries that got yelled at for not playing a very very specific way or not being the very max level(I got yelled at in a tier 3 raid for not being geared for tier 5 or 6 as a controller cause I wasn't providing enough power and they think i'm just a pancakes battery). Support wasn't just babysitting health bars and crowd control actually WORKED IN TEAMS.
Sorry, rant over.
As I frequently said, City of heroes isn't dead, but wrongfully accused and in jail for the moment. It's the communities job to free it...
. . .<Snip!> City of heroes isn't dead, but wrongfully accused and in jail for the moment. It's the communities job to free it. <Snip!>. . .
... As I frequently said, City of heroes isn't dead, but wrongfully accused and in jail for the moment. It's the communities job to free it. ....
Wow, I just read thru the other posting that led me to this one after 750 pages there.
This is great, first time poster but I am glad to see what's what here and how much is going on with the process.
I look forward to seeing what happens. Thanks again for the updates, info and efforts.
Oh, I was an altoholic that had at least over 150 characters across many servers. So many combinations, so little time. All of my characters were a Jeff of some sort. I started playing CoH in August 2009. I miss it and it seems many in CO miss it too, from the zone chatter that's always going on there when I pop my head in once in a while.
- The Jeffs
Welcome aboard, Jeff!
*sputters* over 150 characters!! Wow!!
Surely Korea works sometime.
I mean, I already wondered if they would slow down during the holidays and was informed they do indeed have the same holiday tradition. So at some point, they've got to go back to work like the West, right?
Welcome aboard, Jeff!
*sputters* over 150 characters!! Wow!!
That's not many, I had well over 200 on my main account alone.oh my God it is over 9....err 200 !!! :D
Of course comes the big question: once the game returns; how many will you recreate? The favorites? The powerhouses? All of them?
Or create a few then wait for CoH 1.5?
I think I will probably have 4-5 characters under construction right away but will keep with that. I don't want to go to heavy on alts this time.
For praetoria, a stalker with kinetic melee/super reflexes. I had a lot of success with that, and it was a character I was trying to get to 50 when the announcement came.
For hero side, likely a corruptor and maybe a mastermind.
Villain side? Maybe a brute and scrapper or maybe a brute and dominator.
Of course comes the big question: once the game returns; how many will you recreate? The favorites? The powerhouses? All of them?
Or create a few then wait for CoH 1.5?
Well I sentinel'd about 130, but the ones I'd remake first:
Mace/stone brute
Ice/mental blaster
Elec/shield scrapper
SS/fire brute
Dark/stone tank
and my signature toon stone/axe tank
Of course comes the big question: once the game returns; how many will you recreate? The favorites? The powerhouses? All of them?For myself I have a list on the characters I want to remake. There are those that will be retired and there will be new characters such as a few from the champions online universe and my main character from the secret world would be made into the City of. universe.:D
Or create a few then wait for CoH 1.5?
Then I can help rebuild the market! That is one of my goals to flood the market. I hope those who get the game actually seed the market to begin with like set every item to 1000 in stock. It would boost those starting out again.
Grav/Time Controller first, I think. After that I'll rebuild a couple of scrappers. MA/Regen and ??/EA, I haven't really decided where to go with the EA toon yet, but I'll probably end up in Street Justice since SS and EM aren't scrapper options. Anything after that will just be building characters that fit whatever theme I'm feeling at the time. No doubt some will be recreations, but many will be new.
I keep debating if a character should be a grav/time controller myself. Alot of it boils down to the fact that, I want to really show people how support works in city of heroes when it comes back. To show that there are so many more things you can do besides just being the healer who never attacks or does anything else know?
Common salvage vendors for 250, and that's a stupid way to make inf. It's such a tiny amount per piece and you can only bid on / carry so much salvage at once that it's terribly inefficient and takes forever to make a few hundred thousand, which isn't very much. You're actually losing inf compared to spending that time running missions or playing the market.
If you're going to buy vendor trash, level 50 recipes are a better bet, but even they take a while to build up any sizable amount.
Vendoring under-priced items a nice way to get a little starter cash in the beginning, but I'd hate to try to make a lot of inf that way.
Of course comes the big question: once the game returns; how many will you recreate? The favorites? The powerhouses? All of them?I've had a lot of time both during and after CoH's run to ponder what worked (for me) and what didn't. By the end, I was playing Controllers almost exclusively, and, as my preferred roles were:
Or create a few then wait for CoH 1.5?
I will recreate my Fire/Dark Corruptor first.Some of you guys were playing a different game than me. wow...
I can run him at +1x8 at level 10 and +4x8 at higher levels. Then I can help rebuild the market! That is one of my goals to flood the market. I hope those who get the game actually seed the market to begin with like set every item to 1000 in stock. It would boost those starting out again.
Some of you guys were playing a different game than me. wow...
Some of you guys were playing a different game than me. wow...
I was leveling Grav/Time when the game shutdown. I really liked the combo, although I think you have to be a veteran player to get the most out of it.
I still think in terms of maximum jack of all trades, you can't beat Ill/Rad. Its a cliche, but there isn't much that combo is missing. Heals, confuse, speed, recovery, damage, rez, stealth, rainbow debuffs and indestructible aggro magnets. The only things it doesn't do are defense and resistance buffs, and endurance drain.
Lord, I forgot I'll no longer have the field crafter badge...
Don't remind me, some badges were not worth the grind and having to complete 5000 or so craftings was not worth it.But... but.. but... floating crafting table!! :O
But... but.. but... floating crafting table!! :O
But... but.. but... floating crafting table!! :O
Don't remind me, some badges were not worth the grind and having to complete 5000 or so craftings was not worth it.Actually, I thought the portable crafting table was *very* worth it. Yes, it was a pain in the rear to finally achieve, but combined with remote market access, you could be out at the tail end of the Shadow Shards and make anything on the spot.
There are indications in the files that they were planning to sell the floating crafting table power from the Field Crafter badge in the microtransaction store within the next 6 months. I wonder how that would have gone over.
There are indications in the files that they were planning to sell the floating crafting table power from the Field Crafter badge in the microtransaction store within the next 6 months. I wonder how that would have gone over.
Please , Please don't put salvage up for 1 inf. Put it up for 200 inf for common, I think it was 400 for Uncommon, and Rares, well they weren't usually a problem.
See if you put them up for 1 inf, people will buy them for the minimum and turn around and sell them to vendors at 200 inf per. This makes the buyer rich, (buy low sell high) and the supply dry up faster than . . than . . well something that dries up real fast.
I had friends tell me how they made hundreds of thousands of inf this way. It blew my mind and made me a little angry too, as the salvage that I needed would be either difficult to find, or priced WAY above what it should (looking at you Luck Charms).
Please, Please don't put salvage up for 1 inf. Put it up for 200 inf for common, I think it was 400 for Uncommon, and Rares, well they weren't usually a problem.LOL, I had friends who loved to do that on the market - buy low and then sell to the trainers. It was their sure-fire INF-making scheme in the early-to-mid years of CoH, before we all had too much INF to know what to do with and could just e-mail a few million or so to any new characters to keep them well supplied.
See if you put them up for 1 inf, people will buy them for the minimum and turn around and sell them to vendors at 200 inf per. This makes the buyer rich, (buy low sell high) and the supply dry up faster than . . than . . well something that dries up real fast.
I had friends tell me how they made hundreds of thousands of inf this way. It blew my mind and made me a little angry too, as the salvage that I needed would be either difficult to find, or priced WAY above what it should (looking at you Luck Charms).
By setting the floor at vendor buying prices, the supply remains relatively stable, unless someone is actively spending inf to destroy it.
Fuegocito
Please , Please don't put salvage up for 1 inf. Put it up for 200 inf for common, I think it was 400 for Uncommon, and Rares, well they weren't usually a problem.
See if you put them up for 1 inf, people will buy them for the minimum and turn around and sell them to vendors at 200 inf per. This makes the buyer rich, (buy low sell high) and the supply dry up faster than . . than . . well something that dries up real fast.
I had friends tell me how they made hundreds of thousands of inf this way. It blew my mind and made me a little angry too, as the salvage that I needed would be either difficult to find, or priced WAY above what it should (looking at you Luck Charms).
By setting the floor at vendor buying prices, the supply remains relatively stable, unless someone is actively spending inf to destroy it.
Fuegocito
I'll say this about the city of heroes auction house. It was a far more stable platform than what i've seen in DCUO or CO. The prices if they were high and did start dropping, usually only dropped for legitimate reasons and it was usually gradual. CO? Well, often what happens is because everyone can see the prices of the items, you get what I love to call an "Underbid war", in which, due to the rather short timer of putting things up for sale(your auction would expire after only 15 days), some jerks would eventually see your prices, and put the same items up for a lower price and prevent you from selling at all.
Then some other jerk would put their own items up for cheaper and so on and on. An item that was once say 10-20 globals could drop down to only 5 in a matter of hours. Items in the thousands of globals or hundreds of globals were the only safe things to put up there. It was both brutally annoying and frustrating. This also ensured you couldn't trade at all as a silver, because of the extremely low global cap of only 250. That may be made worst if/when they make cosmic keys bind on purchase like has happened in NWO. It's hoped the devs of CO aren't that stupid and that PWE doesn't do that to the game, if it happens the game for sure will die.
Then course DCUO has the same problem but even worst, far, far worst. Your auction expires in 48 hours, max, and you see some of the same under-bidding wars going on. Only even very high priced items end up risky to sell.
Thing is city of heroes handled it smart in that, by hiding the prices people were asking for, it allowed not only for people to "negotiate" prices but it also prevented the under-bid wars we'd see. Putting an underbid up would often cause it to instantly sell as people buying could set a price they were willing to buy, and it'd sell instantly when put up. That'd tell people selling "maybe I should have asked for more?". This combined with a lack of a limit and a lack of expiration date, prevented any kind of "Underbidding" wars from starting out of pressure of making sure the items sold. Prices remained far more stable because of that.
Don't ever play EvE Online if those small-time bidding wars bugged ya. Selling stuff in that game is damn near a full-time endeavor just to make sure your product moves. Almost instantaneous 0.01 undercutting, depending on which market hub you're at and what product you're trading in.
I chose not to bother with EVE because of how I hear the very in-game economy is tied to actual money. At the very least I am guessing it's players deciding the prices at least, rather than the company itself, as I also hear it's economy is entirely player driven including the prices of everything in it. Unlike CO and the whole lockbox schemes.
Yes and no. It's rather complex in how products have a price floor (I can get into it with you if you like, but that is, as I said, complex) but they do have a rough price floor. But yes, save for some worthless NPC goods that have no bearing on player industry and thus the overall game, every product is priced by the players.
As for the real-money tie-in, that is for a product called PLEX, meaning Pilot License EXtension, or a fancy name for gametime. You purchase the PLEX in pairs w/ real money from CCP (EvE dev) and with those 2 PLEX you are then free to use them, trade them, or sell them on the market for in-game currency - other than CCP setting the real money price for the PLEX, their value in-game is again player driven. In a sense it's an attempt to dissuade "gold-selling" as you can legally/TOS/EULA agreeably do the same through the game itself.
I think it's alot smarter and more upfront than the lockboxes we've been seeing in CO then. As it not only combats gold selling since you have a legitimate system in place but it ensures people are not so easy to "Scam" by the developer themselves. The fact that everything can be earned in game means that nerfs to items cannot be tied to baiting and switching to I'd believe. What hurts CO is the fact that, many of the lockbox items are truely lock-box only. If it's drifter salvage, thats also lockbox only. And cosmic keys? Someone somewhere spent money for it, in some way or another. Zen from Q? Also from someone who spent money on that.
Items on the drifter store and in lockboxes cannot be earned in game. So money is spent sooner or later on them thus when they get excessively nerfed, you end up with the outcries you see. And the severe drop in popularity over the last two months that resulted from that. It really is deliberately made to make money rather than be a good game.
Players scamming others is one thing but then whats happened in CO thats, well, the developers doing, whether it was intentional or not it was :S.
So you can use real money to get "space rich" but it doesn't really offer you any advantages over other players other than having the funds available to buy the next shiny ship you want to go get blown up.
Agree - generally speaking CCP takes a complete hands-off approach to the markets. There are a few instances where they have changed a few things that have impacts on the market (this ties into the complex price floor I alluded to) but overall they let the market live and breath on its own accord, obvious exploits aside. In a game where scamming other players is allowed (and some would say encouraged, but that is an arguement in semantics) the devs do keep out of the economy of the game to a surprising large extent, and don't engage in some of the cash-grab activities of other games.
While yes, you can use real money to acquire in-game currency, you still use that in-game currency to acquire products built/looted by other players. The only cash-shop items are 100% cosmetic (as far as I know, it's been some time since I've played). There certainly aren't any P2W items, nor lockboxes or anything similar. So you can use real money to get "space rich" but it doesn't really offer you any advantages over other players other than having the funds available to buy the next shiny ship you want to go get blown up.
CCP is smart in that it knows it has a sizable portion of its playerbase that play the game strictly for the markets. As a finance/economics guy myself, that was my draw to the game and kept me playing long past when I would have cut and run normally. Hell, at one point they had their own in-house economist to help monitor things, set the "price-floor" on new ships/items they were introducing into the game, and tweak anything that needed tweaking.
Or you can put $1,500 worth of plex onto a ship and watch it get blown up
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/12/30/eve-online-player-loses-1-500-in-a-ship-attack/
It never ceases to amaze me at the stupidity of people in that game. I still get a kick out of how many people fall for the obvious ponzi schemes and flat-out "investment" scams. A fool and his money...
In my early days, I actually spent real-world money several times buying large piles of INF. I was never caught, because I knew the people in RL and they were members of my SG.
We apparently ran in very different crowds :). I remember a SG mate mention in chat that he finally worked out. Build for one character, but it'd take him a while to earn enough to get all the IOs he needed. People started piping in with "What did you need, I'll see what I got". "I have some of those crafted, I'll drop them in the bins". "I got the salvage to craft those I'll mail them to you". He got almost all he needed from people in the SG+1
That is one of the biggest things I miss about CoH, that kind of community. I have yet to join any group in another game that was willing to just help out other members, just because they could.
With, this I find it mind boggling that you paid real money to a SG mate for inf. And not in the "why would someone pay real money for influence way". But more in the "A SG member charged you for influence!?". :)Well, it works out that our poorest (in RL) member happened to be our best farmer and most skilled marketeer; he was positively swimming in cash and loot in-game. Whereas I make the most (in RL) in our group of friends, but had less time to game. As I had expensive tastes in-game (give me lots of those lovely purples and LotGs for my L50's!), it seemed a reasonable trade. I think our typical rate was $10 billion INF for $100 USD. I must have paid him at least $500 over about 4 years. We used to joke that he was an honorary Chinese Gold Farmer. ;)
We apparently ran in very different crowds :). I remember a SG mate mention in chat that he finally worked out. Build for one character, but it'd take him a while to earn enough to get all the IOs he needed. People started piping in with "What did you need, I'll see what I got". "I have some of those crafted, I'll drop them in the bins". "I got the salvage to craft those I'll mail them to you". He got almost all he needed from people in the SG
That is one of the biggest things I miss about CoH, that kind of community. I have yet to join any group in another game that was willing to just help out other members, just because they could.
Oh, I do miss playing the market in game. I just couldn't get over that some people were willing to pay 2 billion inf for one of those 3% resistance IOs from the PvP zones. I'd do those weekly hero merit runs with *every* character I had. Some of them multiple times for the different rewards. Then, when they had several of those mini-arcs, I'd run all of them on all my characters that could easily do them.
I think I must have sold about 20 or so of those after I put them to good use in my favored characters.
(It would probably be in the operators' best interests to just up and give me admin9 rather than have me blitz the game servers with that activity, actually).
Or turn it up to 11.
Oh, I do miss playing the market in game. I just couldn't get over that some people were willing to pay 2 billion inf for one of those 3% resistance IOs from the PvP zones.
I paid 100 million for something (I think it was the knockback to knockdown IO - out of season) - thats the highest I ever went.
I used to reroll my characters often into a different powerset and I would keep the stuff I would need from their builds and give the rest away.
ughuhuh
I just finished playing Champions and came to the realization that it was a WoW clone with a CoH skin slapped on it, now I am without an MMO. *wah wah wah sound effect*
Wish I could get back to pummeling those sniveling snots in their spandex already. :P
ughuhuh
I just finished playing Champions and came to the realization that it was a WoW clone with a CoH skin slapped on it, now I am without an MMO. *wah wah wah sound effect*
Wish I could get back to pummeling those sniveling snots in their spandex already. :P
I paid 100 million for something (I think it was the knockback to knockdown IO - out of season) - thats the highest I ever went.
One person said this to me. Champions online is very wide, true, but it's only an inch deep. City of heroes wasn't just wide, it had multiple layers of soil, sedimentary layers, igneous intrusive, igneous extrusive, and metamorphic layers. It took time to discover that and it was very satisfying to. Both games were easy to learn but, city of heroes kept you learning well after the tutorial. Champions online that learning stops short.
Oh, I do miss playing the market in game. I just couldn't get over that some people were willing to pay 2 billion inf for one of those 3% resistance IOs from the PvP zones. I'd do those weekly hero merit runs with *every* character I had. Some of them multiple times for the different rewards. Then, when they had several of those mini-arcs, I'd run all of them on all my characters that could easily do them.
I think I must have sold about 20 or so of those after I put them to good use in my favored characters.
In real life, at the time, I'd spent a year unemployed, pretty much broke. Savings account getting smaller and smaller. Heck, I'd play just to feel rich, lol. Ah, those were the days of playing for hours and hours on end...thankfully those days are over.
It was always nice to be able to drop 100 million inf before the Really Hard Way runs to help out those who didn't have all the bells and whistles to give them every edge they could get.
Its really difficult to explain from a design perspective, but to me the best games have a balance between freedom and structure. There must be enough freedom to be interesting, but that freedom has to exist within an environment of structure or its often pointless. The best analogy I can come up with is painting with black ink on a white canvas. You can only use so much black ink on the white canvas before it becomes a black canvas with a white drawing. At some point, removing too much structure makes the freedom that remains an amorphous blob. I think the City of Heroes powers and archetype system had a good amount of freedom and structure - not perfect, but good. CO removes too much structure, and you end up with only a little bit of interesting white in a sea of black. There are more possible combinations of builds in CO, but less interesting combinations.
The *engine* is in many ways far superior. But its used in a way that blurs so many distinctions between how things work that it actually eliminates some of the choices that CoH has. The melee landscape was very rich in CoH specifically because the archetype structure made different choices interestingly distinct. The melee landscape in CO is a lot blander, even if superficially there are more options in some areas. The buff and control landscape was far superior in CoH, even if it was a little broken. By being relatively straight forward, the gear system in CoH was more interesting to explore: its a larger, but in my opinion far more confused mess in CO. There are no easy obvious paths to guide the novice, and optimization is very opaque unless you are an expert.
That is why i do not look at the mechanics of the game and just tromp along like a happy idiot. That probably wont work for every one though and CO did Power armor and Guns -very- well at least to me (who could never manage to make a good PA Character in CoX but who will be trying to if/when it comes back....if i can get some of the cool mecha parts. Err sorry ranting !).
That is why i do not look at the mechanics of the game and just tromp along like a happy idiot. That probably wont work for every one though and CO did Power armor and Guns -very- well at least to me (who could never manage to make a good PA Character in CoX but who will be trying to if/when it comes back....if i can get some of the cool mecha parts. Err sorry ranting !).
I liked listening to all the specifics on certain builds, powers, etc. However, I pretty much went my own way too for certain things depending on my own play style.
I did notice when certain things were squishy or strong (i.e., MM ninjas being very squishy, but good at single target attacks). But, I still tried to enjoy the various facets of the game. though I didn't so much get into the warshade/peacemaker, nor the arachnos archetypes. I tried them out though, but not for me. I didn't do too many of the tanks either, but I did play them.
I'm sure when we get back into game and even "when" the CoX 1.5 option comes around, there will be plenty of info out there along with testers of various things. I'm just eager to get back to heroing or villainry at this point.
I remember a SG mate mention in chat that he finally worked out. Build for one character, but it'd take him a while to earn enough to get all the IOs he needed. People started piping in with "What did you need, I'll see what I got". "I have some of those crafted, I'll drop them in the bins". "I got the salvage to craft those I'll mail them to you". He got almost all he needed from people in the SG
That is one of the biggest things I miss about CoH, that kind of community. I have yet to join any group in another game that was willing to just help out other members, just because they could.
That's how it was for me when I was playing... I had a group of friends (we had our own SGs--I think between us all, we were running around 4 or 5 SGs) that would just hop on Skype and say "Hey, I need _____ does anyone happen to have it?" Most of the time, someone would, and we'd just pass stuff around amongst ourselves.
I think the most inf I ever put down on any char I played was my main character (my Warshade)... I spent about 2 or 3 billion to get him where I wanted him, but that includes around 30 or 40 respecs--and all three builds were full of IOs on him. He had a human-only build, a dual form build, and a tri-form build, and all of them were fully spec'd.
Shut the front door. You pulled three purpled out builds with only two bill?
The only purple explicitly mentioned in the post was the Warshade itself :P And even if it is all purples, it doesn't have to be good purples.
The only purple explicitly mentioned in the post was the Warshade itself :P And even if it is all purples, it doesn't have to be good purples.
Players that did not build with high-end enhancements may not realize that there was a wide range of prices for different purple IOs at different times. For example many control purples at different times could be had for 5 million-ish. A lot of inf, but not billions-and-billions a lot. And they got even cheaper after the merit system came out. Towards the end, you could have made many purple-set builds for hundreds of millions, rather than billions of inf.
I never saw any builds on the forums that required purple sets. For the most part, purples were used for their procs and that's about it.
Reminds me of one ITF where the tanker bragged about all his purple enhancements, then proceeded to die about 3 times more than anyone else on the team. :)
Players that did not build with high-end enhancements may not realize that there was a wide range of prices for different purple IOs at different times. For example many control purples at different times could be had for 5 million-ish. A lot of inf, but not billions-and-billions a lot. And they got even cheaper after the merit system came out. Towards the end, you could have made many purple-set builds for hundreds of millions, rather than billions of inf.I managed to purchase a coupe of complete purple sets for less than 1 mill Inf once. I think it was a fluke of un-nature or something that allowed me to manage it. That and they were the less wanted sets. Immobilize and Slow, I think.
Shut the front door. You pulled three purpled out builds with only two bill?
Players that did not build with high-end enhancements may not realize that there was a wide range of prices for different purple IOs at different times. For example many control purples at different times could be had for 5 million-ish. A lot of inf, but not billions-and-billions a lot. And they got even cheaper after the merit system came out. Towards the end, you could have made many purple-set builds for hundreds of millions, rather than billions of inf.
Thugs/devices was probably the most broken mastermind combo I messed around with.
Put both of the defense aura enhancements on the enforcers, got the accuracy/defense alpha, with force field and scorpion shield, neither I, or my minions could be touched, and that goes double for when I had poison gas, caltraps with the knockdown proc, and trip mines/acid motars.
Hell, Gangwar>Burnout>Gangwar was some fun times.
It was nuts.
Thugs/devices was probably the most broken mastermind combo I messed around with.Question - I've been looking at this in Mids, and the first Defense Aura I can find is in the Superior Command of the Mastermind set, but I'm not seeing the other. The closest I can see is a 5% Defense bonus in Edict of the Master, but that does not appear to be an Aura power. Where's the second one?
Put both of the defense aura enhancements on the enforcers, got the accuracy/defense alpha, with force field and scorpion shield, neither I, or my minions could be touched, and that goes double for when I had poison gas, caltraps with the knockdown proc, and trip mines/acid motars.
Hell, Gangwar>Burnout>Gangwar was some fun times.
It was nuts.
I used Bots/traps...and Teleport Foe...and the donut emote. I never had to worry about Endurance, unless I happened to pull the entire x8 mob because some minion was more alert than normal.
Bots/Natures Affinity - I didn't have time to flesh out all the synergies, but this was a VERY strong pairing.
Some sets seemed natural: Zombies/Dark, Bots/Traps, but late in the playing I alted and enjoy a lot of less than obvious pairings.
Zombies/Thermal, Zombies/Storm (this one could roll like a juggernaut once you tamed playing hurricane)
Demons/Thermal, Demons/Sonic (put the hellfire lieutenant on aggressive with the sonic tutu)
Bots/Natures Affinity - I didn't have time to flesh out all the synergies, but this was a VERY strong pairing.
Thugs/Poison - Put the Poison debuff PBAoE on the Bruiser and turn them loose. Micromanage the bruiser to keep catching the aggro, no time to chuck rocks.
The best part was the multi mastermind groupings on Exalted with the all mastermind SG. Thermal, Sonic, and Forcefield buffs all the time? Minions ROCK
That is why i do not look at the mechanics of the game and just tromp along like a happy idiot. That probably wont work for every one though and CO did Power armor and Guns -very- well at least to me (who could never manage to make a good PA Character in CoX but who will be trying to if/when it comes back....if i can get some of the cool mecha parts. Err sorry ranting !).
Some sets seemed natural: Zombies/Dark, Bots/Traps, but late in the playing I alted and enjoy a lot of less than obvious pairings.
One of the things I plan to do when the game comes back is to really get into masterminds more. I had a few but they never clicked for me, but it sounds like I might have had the wrong approach to playing. I suspect my handling of minions was pretty ham handed and ought to have a more subtle and thoughtful approach.
I frankenslotted everything.`
I had mixtures of various IO's, procs and bonuses to get what I wanted. In most cases full sets were not the best case. Often I would have 3 of one type and 3 of another to get the bonus I wanted.
Also, I had a habit of doing a LOT of task forces (those who did TFs on Freedom might remember me, because I ran them all the time), and I'd use the merits won from those TFs to buy LotGs, which I would then sell on the market. What I'd get from those sales would go towards finishing up my builds.I probably teamed with you a lot. ;D
*Edited to add* I know someone mentioned an All MM SG in Exalted, when we get COH back anyone interested in doing an all MM SG again? I'd love to, myself. :)I would love to try that as well.
Hmm. I just recently decided to pick up CO again and give it a spin after a long absence.
What? Are you crazy? ;)
On a separate matter entirely. I'd like to praise Ironwolf for his restraint and his patience. He handles himself with dignity and grace. (More so than 'some' on these boards...)
In addition, it was him who got the balling rolling with the current talks (perhaps because he can think outside the box from other another culture's point of view...)
For me, I owe him a debt of gratitude. I hope the talks pay off and we're playing CoX relatively 'soon.'
Patience is a virtue. But good to see we're being defiantly patient...
Azrael.
What? Are you crazy? ;)You say that like its a bad thing.
I've come to the conclusion that I don't care how, I don't care who, I just want to play CoH again. Good grief I'm so ready to sub up my accounts again.
I've come to the conclusion that I don't care how, I don't care who, I just want to play CoH again. Good grief I'm so ready to sub up my accounts again.
I want to play with time manipulation again so badly. Especially since CO will never have it and even if it did I'm sure they'd gimp it to the point I'd never ever want to roleplay there again(my character being a time manip would be gimped thematically if they gimped time themed powers, thus, I'd never want to play the them in the first place. It's why I never play telepaths there, same reason).That is very true, for co you could use super speed for cosmetic purposes.
That is very true, for co you could use super speed for cosmetic purposes.
Every concept I came up with in city of heroes was powerful in gameplay. Only a couple qualified in CO.
I know how you feel. I made a few archetypes in CO and it seemed like even my pets heavy character wasn't much to do for. Even my "seemingly" powerful characters in CO were wimpy to me.
Another reason I really really really can't wait for CoX to come back.
It's funny you guys say that... I too felt my hero in champions was just not super. I played for two 6 months stints and was really never connected to the character I played.
....and I never went alt-crazy. I could barely stand playing 5 characters.
I've come to the conclusion that I don't care how, I don't care who, I just want to play CoH again. Good grief I'm so ready to sub up my accounts again.
Right there with you, I'll wipe my CC out so fast the plastic will melt.
Yeah, I never felt super in CO. I put together characters I thought would be fun, but they almost never were. At best, they were pale imitations of my CoH characters. My melee characters got easily knocked around the room like pinballs, my ranged characters felt underpowered and fragile (even more than Blasters at their worst), and my attempts at recreating my Controllers and Dominators were just weak Blasters with pets (due to the lack of non-Telepathy CC). Only my attempt at my Bots/Storm MM felt playable. (I actually liked him, but having so many characters on the screen slowed things down to a crawl on my old computer)
The game tries to hide how weak you are by making their Minions (I forget what CO calls them) even weaker in comparison, but as soon as you fight a Boss (Villain?) or higher, you start to feel the lack of power.
That said, I haven't even been able to run CO on my shiny new computer to see whether it can handle my Pseudo-Mastermind. When I tried it, the Launcher opened fine, but when I clicked Play, the Launcher closed, and... that's it. CO was on my Dock (so it was running), but the actual game window never opened. I deleted and re-installed a few times, but it never helped.
So I trashed the whole thing and never looked back. (That's still one of the biggest things I miss about CoH - it was Mac-compatible. No kludges or workarounds. If CO wants to win me over, a Mac client is the first thing Cryptic North can do)
Yeah, I never felt super in CO. I put together characters I thought would be fun, but they almost never were. At best, they were pale imitations of my CoH characters. My melee characters got easily knocked around the room like pinballs, my ranged characters felt underpowered and fragile (even more than Blasters at their worst), and my attempts at recreating my Controllers and Dominators were just weak Blasters with pets (due to the lack of non-Telepathy CC). Only my attempt at my Bots/Storm MM felt playable. (I actually liked him, but having so many characters on the screen slowed things down to a crawl on my old computer)
The game tries to hide how weak you are by making their Minions (I forget what CO calls them) even weaker in comparison, but as soon as you fight a Boss (Villain?) or higher, you start to feel the lack of power.
That said, I haven't even been able to run CO on my shiny new computer to see whether it can handle my Pseudo-Mastermind. When I tried it, the Launcher opened fine, but when I clicked Play, the Launcher closed, and... that's it. CO was on my Dock (so it was running), but the actual game window never opened. I deleted and re-installed a few times, but it never helped.
So I trashed the whole thing and never looked back. (That's still one of the biggest things I miss about CoH - it was Mac-compatible. No kludges or workarounds. If CO wants to win me over, a Mac client is the first thing Cryptic North can do)
Two things about CO compared to CoH. First, Cryptic learned three lessons developing CoH they put into practice in CO. One: avoid escalating returns in mechanics (vis-a-vis Defense and Resistance in CoH). Two: Unrestricted AoE is bad. Three: hard control is worse. The power levels in CO are significantly lower than they are in CoH for the most part because of those three reasons.
Second, CO's power system framework is far less forgiving than CoH's. In CoH, you could literally make a random build using dice and a dartboard, and it would be wonky and weird, but stand up to standard content reasonably well. Players could build conceptually or cosmetically and still be playable. In CO, that's really not true. And CoH's enhancement system is far more transparent, and that's saying something because CoH's is unnecessarily cluttered with trivial and inconsequential detail (sometimes I wonder if the fact that Mathematical Proof salvage is a trivial non-entity that most people discard was a deliberate gag by Castle, but I believe he inherited the names of things). CO's gear system makes CoH's gear system look like playing tic-tac-toe with only the X's.
If you are an MMO veteran that likes playing build-jockey, its not necessarily difficult to make powerful builds in CO. But unless you basically straight-up copy someone else's ideas from the forums or think Excel is a past time, a non-veteran MMO player is only going to make very powerful CO build by accident.
Its in many ways a more balanced (in the player vs environment sense) and controlled environment than CoH ever was. But its also, at least in my experience, a less rich and interesting superhero environment. I think balance is important, but I think a superhero game needs wild and crazy more than balanced. I firmly believe you can have both if you design carefully enough, but CoH and CO demonstrate what happens when you can only have one, and each has a different one. I think the CoH experience is the better one.
I think it's a stupid "lesson" to feel that hard control was bad, because it set them up to later make crowd control completely without any use, because they kind of had the attitude of a scrub mentality when many rpgs had hard control in them. Just you needed to provide means to counter crowd control that was modestly available. CO initially had solid cc but CC got nerfed so much in the hands of the player, while also buffed in the hands of mobs when players ignored cc resistance.
........The, game was kind of setup to railroad players into only very specific builds for a number of the above reasons. While the second lesson was fine, and the first was ok, the third one just made sure that crowd control was largely unneeded later, when pvp-scrubs would complain about cc in pvp.......
I used to wonder if my loyalty and love for CoH was due to the fact that it was my first MMO. After playing three others long enough to see their shortcomings in comparison, I became comfortable with the fact that I was apparently just waiting for the right one to come along, and when it did, I played it from start to finish.
That assertion is confirmed by all the comments I have read here from people who feel as I do. I was right to feel that way, and it could not be back soon enough for me!
CO just flat out stinks... and its an insult to anyone who actually played the Champions/Hero System PnP games.
It was a terrible terrible game and experience for me. I tried it twice. I would rather fantasize over a dead CoH and look at my Mid's builds than to play a vastly inferior product...
CO just flat out stinks... and its an insult to anyone who actually played the Champions/Hero System PnP games.
It was a terrible terrible game and experience for me. I tried it twice. I would rather fantasize over a dead CoH and look at my Mid's builds than to play a vastly inferior product...
I think it's a stupid "lesson" to feel that hard control was bad, because it set them up to later make crowd control completely without any use, because they kind of had the attitude of a scrub mentality when many rpgs had hard control in them. Just you needed to provide means to counter crowd control that was modestly available. CO initially had solid cc but CC got nerfed so much in the hands of the player, while also buffed in the hands of mobs when players ignored cc resistance.Even at the beginning CO's control was far less than that available in CoH. And I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a "stupid" lesson. CoH genuinely had brain-meltingly high levels of control which in any other game would have made it stupidly impossible to balance very well.
The lesson Cryptic should have learned, the subtle lesson that escaped most players as well, was that gameplay balance is about presenting equal opportunity options to the player, and the components of those choices must be engineered to offer those choices. In CoH, you should not be punished or overly rewarded for picking the "right" or "wrong" archetype. There should be no right or wrong archetype. And that means the things to give those archetypes must give the player a unique but roughly even ability to succeed. If you're going to give out super-strong defense and aggro control to one archetype, you have to give out very good crowd control to another, and very high damage to the other. It wasn't always like that: it was highly unbalanced at launch. CoH was refined to become that over time, at least to a first order approximation, because Cryptic/Paragon had no choice: they couldn't start from scratch. But the choice they were forced into was actually the best one for players.
I tried to explain this philosophy during CO early beta. It did not go well.
While CO on the other hand, it ended up with developers who didn't know anything about how their own game was even playing or how to think outside the box as they just made a game about "Smash things up faster or take less damage, your choice, oh if your healing others you'll suck at both of those and crowd control shall be weak". They tried to be an action game and didn't do that well and then ended up becoming more similar to a generic mmo.
Originally I believe the plan was for CO to launch simultaneously on PCs and consoles. The gameplay is very obviously (at least to me) influenced by the need for the game to work with console controllers, and to be dominated by console-like "twitchiness."
Although I don't play the game (at least not yet: haven't had the time) I wonder if in a few respects Destiny might be the game CO initially tried to be and failed to be (and I doubt Cryptic ever had the ability to pull off), minus the explicit reference to the superhero genre.
To me the power building attack that you have to spam makes it seem pretty twitchy and button mashy. I tried three times with CO and just couldn't get into it. It is very possible that it failed in my eyes by not being more like CoH. But even when it was the only game in town it didn't really work for me.Do you mean the energy builder?
Go figure, though, I didn't think CO was twitchy, sure the gameplay is fast but, your not really at risk of dying very fast.The block mechanism, for example, is something you don't usually see in MMOs. Not just the literal block power, but its use in conjunction with obvious wham attack visuals. And while you can toggle the energy builder as Brou states above, its also an example of a more twitchy mechanic not just because you spam it, but because it is part of a combat execution system that tends to be more real-time and less queued: CoH was more of a queued attack system which tends to be less twitchy because it doesn't have to be as reactive.
... Its more finely grained see-this-do-that than in CoH which was more see-this-do-this-that-and-the-other.
CO just flat out stinks... and its an insult to anyone who actually played the Champions/Hero System PnP games.
It was a terrible terrible game and experience for me. I tried it twice. I would rather fantasize over a dead CoH and look at my Mid's builds than to play a vastly inferior product...
So CO & DCOU aren't as good as CoX, but for now, we don't have CoX, so enjoy what you can while you can! (If you can!)
Exactly why I've been playing a lot of Civilization 5 lately, as well as several fun 4X games as well. Until CoX is reactivated Superhero MMOs are dead to me.
Exactly why I've been playing a lot of Civilization 5 lately, as well as several fun 4X games as well. Until CoX is reactivated Superhero MMOs are dead to me.
I feel like Marvel Heroes Online is a lot more in-line with how City of Heroes used to be.
But in the mean time I too have been playing other games....Destiny is one...Marvel Heroes Online is another.....I do occasionally log into DCUO and Champions...but those games just bore the life out of me...too many limitations in those games.
I hear Destiny is coming to PC in March, supposedlyI don't think this is true sadly. I have been playing Destiny since day 1. I am one of the people who got hooked and are figuring out why they like it so much. However they can barely add content and bug fixes at the rate they are already. The game as is short on content and is riddled with bugs that they are supposedly addressing. Making it for the PC would only slow down their progress on it. It would be putting the carriage before the horse.
I don't think this is true sadly. I have been playing Destiny since day 1. I am one of the people who got hooked and are figuring out why they like it so much. However they can barely add content and bug fixes at the rate they are already. The game as is short on content and is riddled with bugs that they are supposedly addressing. Making it for the PC would only slow down their progress on it. It would be putting the carriage before the horse.
I've heard the "steam" sale rumor but I just don't actually believe it. With how much work they should do on the current game as is, a lot of people would not be happy if they released a PC version before making the current version better.
Last I knew Bungie said there were no plans to develop Destiny for PC. However, that's really just as well because the end-game grind for ascendant shards/energy gear upgrades, not to mention the extra junk you need to get post-DLC to upgrade gear with, will drive people so crazy they'll quit in a couple months anyway. I killed myself on PS4 for 2 1/2 months to get all these upgraded exotics, and suddenly post-DLC, the legendary vendor junk was better and I was told to trash everything and start over in a sense. Pffft to that, I quit and never went back.
I miss CoH. Waiting patiently for news.
Same, but I am waiting impatiently, I keep trying CO and DCOU but they just don't do it for me, not eveen for an evening. I need me some CoH!
I don't mind DCUO every now and then, mainly because it is easy on the eyes. I get what you're saying though, that game is essentially what CoH would look like if the only thing focused on was end game content. With most games focusing on end game grinds lately I'll be lost in euphoria if I get to slowly work my way back to 50 in our wonderful city.
Yep, when CoX is back, I plan to level a few toons from 1 to 50 the old-school route...
Yep, when CoX is back, I plan to level a few toons from 1 to 50 the old-school route.... Through the Hollows and everything. Ah, great times! I so miss handing FrostFire his head about 17 times.
Yep, when CoX is back, I plan to level a few toons from 1 to 50 the old-school route.... Through the Hollows and everything. Ah, great times! I so miss handing FrostFire his head about 17 times.
I wonder how many Atlas Parks we will have. :DAll of them.
I wonder how many Atlas Parks we will have. :D
I wonder, when the game returns, who will be the first to get to 50? You know some people are going to race to 50 as fast as they can.
I won't have to power level to hit 50 fast I will tell you that. Super teams aplenty with my plans.
There's another way to level? :o
They should have a badge just for the first one to get to 50. I don't know what to name it but it should be unique.
They should have a badge just for the first one to get to 50. I don't know what to name it but it should be unique.
"Content? What content?"Heh. Indeed - they'll be a race for this, I'm sure, and the power-levelers will miss everything to level up in an afternoon. Towards the end, I'd gone in the exact opposite direction, using ParagonWiki to assemble a spreadsheet of contacts and mission arcs by zone and level that I didn't want to miss.
Or better yet...
"Did I miss something?"
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
I don't plan to level as quickly as possible, but I also don't plan to try doing every possible arc on my way up either. I imagine there will be a lot of people running DFB to get things rolling, which I expect I will take part in. I expect I will also take part in my favourite zones such as Faultline and Croatoa.
While I have a looooong list of characters I would like to make eventually, I have it narrowed down to a "short" list of 8 that I intend to make early on, largely representing my favourite ATs (3 controllers, a WS, 1 tank, 1 MM, 1 blaster and 1 dom. The blaster is the only AT of those I never took to 50.) Exactly which of those I will focus on at the beginning and which will be the first to 50, I have no idea. Keep changing my mind. I don't expect to be one of the earliest getting to 50 again, but I don't think it will take me that long either.
Thank you; it does keep me dreaming and hoping that we hear something soon.
They should have a badge just for the first one to get to 50. I don't know what to name it but it should be unique.
I have so many characters I plan on remaking and the others I never got around to creating. I plan on taking my time leveling each of them. I have no idea who will be first, second, third and so forth but I do know I am going to enjoy being back in our city. I miss it so but talking about it like this with all of you does make me smile. :) Thank you; it does keep me dreaming and hoping that we hear something soon.
They should have a badge just for the first one to get to 50. I don't know what to name it but it should be unique.
I have already gotten a start on remaking my characters using Icon. I figure the saved costume and power customization files should save me 30 minutes per character minimum, and get me into a fully populated map to start playing all the sooner.
Yeah, I am really looking forward to that.
I have already gotten a start on remaking my characters using Icon. I figure the saved costume and power customization files should save me 30 minutes per character minimum, and get me into a fully populated map to start playing all the sooner.
Yeah, I am really looking forward to that.
They should have a badge just for the first one to get to 50. I don't know what to name it but it should be unique.
My biggest temptation would be to spend hours creating characters and then not knowing what to do when I'm done with all the choices. In my head I'd like to think I'll have the self control to just limit myself a little (cause I'm on the wavelength that it won't go away again anytime soon, preferably never) and concentrate on a selected few. I doubt I'll power my way through with one character.That's my view of the game exactly. Explaining my playstyle would vary depending upon the day. Such a cool game to support all those various options.
I'll probably do what I did when we last had it. Pick a character, and try to team. I loved teaming in this game so much. If for some reason its a dead time or the teams can't stick together for long periods of time. Then move on to another fave and hope I get success there. There were times I played a character for a week straight. Then others where I kept switching every 30 min or so cause my characters or the team just didn't gel.
That's what is so cool about this game. There are so many options and fun in every zone and at all levels. I could be a story guy and solo through. Or play with a group from level one to who knows. I remembered getting a level 1 teaming at the sewers and moving on to radio missions at Kings and on from there. Then look at the time and I have about 3 Hours before I'm supposed to wake up.
AARRGGH!!!! I miss this game sooooooooo much!!!!!
Patiently pulling hair and praying to the almighty toe clippings on the floor for the great news (always optimistic) sooner as opposed to later
The problem with unique things is...It's not really fair. I suppose it's more that it's not nice, rather than not fair.
It also has the potential to open a can of "F*** the devs." as Badge Whores look at their collection of badges and go "I've got every badge! ...Except all the ones i don't, because they're unique." Now you've got a pissed off badger.
There is a certain kickass coolness to unique things though. I think it threatens to be more trouble than it's worth.
I haven't messed around with getting characters ready in Icon yet, mostly because I think it would make me even more eager. I've been content to poke around in Mids and make a list of the builds I want to try. I expect it wouldn't take me long to get around to Icon if we hear positive news though.
Don't dangle raw meat in front of badgers, is what I'm trying to say.
Of the many descriptions of badge hunters I have seen over the years, this one makes me laugh the most. It is so very appropriate. I can't believe I never connected badgers (the people who look for CoH badges) and badgers (the animal). Thank you for that laugh this morning.
The thing about badges is, it's a collection system. It was created for people who enjoy a collection mindset and playstyle. And players who enjoy that will never be okay with having 99%. The entire *purpose* of a collection mini-game is that the player is working toward having 100% someday. They go into it knowing full well that the last few items will take patience and persistence; it's what they like about it. They enjoy pushing themselves to "cross the finish line", so to speak. Except when unique and time-limited items are thrown into the mix, they'll never cross that finish line, and they know it. Because there will be items they literally can *never* obtain. For most collectors the only thing that's going to do is foster negativity.
If there had just been a section for these things where they weren't included in (or left out of) the character's badge count, I think there would have been a lot less resentment from the folks who didn't have them.
here's a question for you all: What feature added to the game felt like a breath of fresh air that brought some new life to the game, or something that was long overdue?
here's a question for you all: What feature added to the game felt like a breath of fresh air that brought some new life to the game, or something that was long overdue?
I could see a badge:
Lvl 50 in 50 day/hours/minutes..
here's a question for you all: What feature added to the game felt like a breath of fresh air that brought some new life to the game, or something that was long overdue?
For me it was the invention system in Issue 9. It wasn't perfect by any means, but in one stroke the basic economy created by the invention system (and the markets that were coupled to it) realized the promise of any player being able to play the game without compromising concept (by opening the door to levels of enhancement that would make standard content playable with literally any build without significant monetary or time-grinding investment) and opened the door for the players to create their own meta-gaming end game by opening the door to ludicrous (relatively speaking) levels of build power that allowed players to set fantastic gaming goals as their own end game achievements (i.e. the Scrapper Challenges, higher-order task force soloing, AV/GM soloing with more options than the classic AV builds).
It wasn't just the gameplay and quantitative changes, I believe a case can be made that the post-I9 game was fundamentally different on not just a technical level but also on a player-community level. We saw and played the game differently after Issue 9, and we even interacted with each other differently after I9. The invention system helped, I believe, promote the "there's no wrong way to play" philosophy that was just one of many in the early days, and became the prevalent religion of CoH in the years after Issue 9. I could say the invention system, rather than being the scourge that some thought it might become before it launched, actually became a strong positive influence that doesn't often get the credit it deserves.
Yeah the invention system should have received more credit from the players. after all it did help offset the diversification that Jack was so fond of...Price capping as in forcing an IO to not go for more than X amount? Not possible. If they can't sell on-market for what they think it's worth, people will just trade off-market. It's just how people work.
Now the Market.....leaving the price cap at 2 billion inf I was never fond of. I really didn't think there was any IO that was worth 2 billion, not even the +3defense PVP io. Sure I understand, more defense is great, but for 2 billion inf? No.
Price capping and the occasional market seeding would have been nice.
here's a question for you all: What feature added to the game felt like a breath of fresh air that brought some new life to the game, or something that was long overdue?
Now the Market.....leaving the price cap at 2 billion inf I was never fond of. I really didn't think there was any IO that was worth 2 billion, not even the +3defense PVP io. Sure I understand, more defense is great, but for 2 billion inf? No.
Nate? You out there? Drop us a bone of some kind...ok? I'm 61 years old and I ain't gettin' any younger. My longing for the game is like a physical hunger.
I'd like to echo this sentiment, except I'm 65 and get irritated easily. What's the holdup? Yeah, I've read every post in the two main threads, and it's going nowhere. The delay is BS, IMO. Someone on our end is getting jacked around. Who we dealing with here? They got some IP they don't want, and we've got some cash, capable and willing devs, and a rabid fan base! What's wrong with this picture? Sheesh.
In any event, the game changer for me was Inventions. And SG Base design.
Fav Toons: Fire/Ice Blaster, Grav/Emp Controller, and Dual Blade/Willpower Brute.
Biggest Frustration: Could never get that Rikti Mothership Badge. Poobah.
That's it. Back to lurking, mostly.
Patience is a lifelong goal. I am in the same boat as you guys, but we just have to have faith the people with their necks on the line are working. I am ready to wait for solid news, good or bad. No amount of demanding will change that. nda or otherwise.
1. Mission Architect: breath of fresh air
2. Praetoria: breath of fresh air
3. buffs such as Speed Boost and Force Field bubbles becoming AOE powers; LONG overdue
4. Null the Gull: LONG overdue. I enjoyed visiting Null and shutting down group fly effect on all my characters and even speed boost on some as well.
Things are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them. In the case of the PVP +3% defense global, they were worth more than 2 billion to quite a few people; that's why they mostly were sold off market. Sure there were a ton of 2B bids on them and someone who got one without knowing better would occasionally post one and it would sell for 2B, but that wasn't a reliable way to get one unless you were very patient due to all the outstanding bids.
Settings price caps on a player makert is pointless and does nothing but discourage use of that market. Seeding it is equally counter-productive as it makes it harder to sell anything and also discourages people from listing items they don't need. If you were going to do that, you might as well just move everything to NPC vendors and remove the market entirely.
As a player who used to run an all Knownback, stun or disorient team - Ragdoll physics.
Watching everything fly and land in random crumpled poses - was satisfying.
There simply were not enough commodities at the top to spend influence on so there were significantly more players with essentially unlimited influence than there was a supply of such things. In the real world there's always something for a rich person to spend their money on.
Indeed the lack of influence sinks and the unbounded inflation that resulted was the primary cause for sky high prices for the very top items with limited supply. Lots of people liked to complain about the market without really understanding the dynamics of how economies work; if they did they would have realized that limited supply or 'ebil marketeers' weren't the problem, but rather too much money existing. A few did realize, as evidenced by the various influence destruction projects.
In some games, you have to routinely repair your gear, or there are (necessary) consumables sold by NPC vendors, or various other methods of counterbalancing the wealth that gets created out of thin air every time an enemy is defeated. COH didn't really have that once you hit the level cap and no longer needed new SOs, you could just accumulate influence forever and never have to spend it. The 2 billion cap was the only limiting factor and required creative methods of storing influence past that.
Even the sometimes exorbitant prices of IO recipes didn't impact that, as if you bought a high end purple for a billion influence, only 100 million of that was removed from the economy. The other 900 million went to another player, ready to bid on something else with. In an off-market trade for the Glad Armor unique, if someone paid 4 billion for it, all 4 billion went to another player and absolutely none of it was removed from the system.
Meanwhile, billions upon billions of influence was being created every day just from enemy defeats in regular missions, task forces, AE farms...
The real 'fix' for the COH economy would be to give rich players something to spend their money on that destroyed it in the process, preferably something repeatable that would keep them coming back for more. High-end vanity pets costing hundreds of millions of inf, inf-purchasable time limited buffs, that kind of thing.
The real 'fix' for the COH economy would be to give rich players something to spend their money on that destroyed it in the process, preferably something repeatable that would keep them coming back for more. High-end vanity pets costing hundreds of millions of inf, inf-purchasable time limited buffs, that kind of thing.Personally, I'd have loved such things for my stable of L50's. Maybe City of Titans or Atlas Park Revival can eventually introduce them to their games.
The supply of influence being so insane was the core reason I was highly opposed to AE farming, because I knew that it tended to send a very disproportionate amount of influence into the market. Power leveling from it was one thing as one could stop at 50 but all the 50s doing it see were gaining hundreds of millions of influence in far far less time than anywhere else. And even after the bug fixes it was still producing way to much influence as 50s would still exploit it for other things and then see the market prices rising far to quickly. Heck, I worried that some newcomers would see the market, turn heel and run before even realising they only needed a few IO's to get started.
To much influence was in the market and it screwed the game economy up.
Given the way people farmed the Peregrine Island missions, I'm not convinced that AE made things drastically worse. A little bit, certainly--it was more efficient, or people wouldn't have done it. But high-level players could certainly generate millions in very short time just by whacking level 54 Button Men. :)
All this talk of AE farms just further reinforces my feelings of, "I didn't miss a damn thing by not touching the farms." I generally avoided AE like the plague, but if there were worthwhile stories to experience I ran them once per character. Never did see the draw to AE farms...was it really that damn hard to level up/earn inf/whatever that normal gameplay didn't offer? Goodness...
To be honest, ya, kinda. I would rather spend less time getting that full purple build and spend more time playing it. Farming provided faster results, what can I say.i used to occasionally run some Fire Tanker ambush farms on my Widow, which could actually be challenging sometimes, but i did it mostly to get tickets for uncommon recipes and rare salvage i wanted for various alt builds. 99%+ of the time i never bothered with farms, AE or otherwise, but there were some very entertaining story arcs and missions in AE to play as well.
To be honest, ya, kinda. I would rather spend less time getting that full purple build and spend more time playing it. Farming provided faster results, what can I say.
I fail to see how AE drove the prices UP... usually increasing the supply of an item drives the price down.
The supply of purples was not increased. And while you might not have cared about that, others did. :)
The supply of purples was not increased. And while you might not have cared about that, others did. :)
part the problem was uneven drop rates. dome people had purples and other "rare" drops falling on them regularly. others not so much. consistently. when Inventions came out, for the entire release, until the next release where they upped the drop rate, I never had a single wing recipe drop. not a single one. and I ran multiple characters to 50 in that time. people I teamed with would get a them often. while I didnt play "for the drops", I can see where this would cause people to do what they had to do to get $$$ to get what they wanted.
I never got the whining about the market.. there were so many ways to get what you wanted. The market was only one..
LoTG + recharge. 120-250 million a pop for a while. You could get enough merits for one in no time. Most merits had access to them as well. Great source of income as people were always buying them.
part the problem was uneven drop rates. dome people had purples and other "rare" drops falling on them regularly. others not so much. consistently. when Inventions came out, for the entire release, until the next release where they upped the drop rate, I never had a single wing recipe drop. not a single one. and I ran multiple characters to 50 in that time. people I teamed with would get a them often. while I didnt play "for the drops", I can see where this would cause people to do what they had to do to get $$$ to get what they wanted.
Agreed, when Going Rogue came out. I found myself farming less and less. Instead, I'd run Hero mission and TFs for merits to buy uniques. Then farm for purples, the only time I really stepped into AE there near the end. Is if I wanted a character to 50 as fast as possible (like my Ninja/Poison MM which was my PVP experiment. LOL).
Thinking about how much the game was improving near the end, makes me want the game back more. :(, I could be dual logged right now, farming on one computer and running Hero mission on the other. :(
They're called "random drops" for a reason.
the chances of zero hits in literally 100ks is very small. unless you are telling me the odds are different for every player? it wouldnt be the first time the rng was implemented improperly in COH. Its as bad as swtor having a 20% reverse engineering attempt fail 140 times in a row. for multiple people. enough that people started keeping track of it. the rng is a known element. the guy that puts it into place in code is just a normal coder though. he can make mistakes believe it or not.he is just a human.
the chances of zero hits in literally 100ks is very small. unless you are telling me the odds are different for every player? it wouldnt be the first time the rng was implemented improperly in COH. Its as bad as swtor having a 20% reverse engineering attempt fail 140 times in a row. for multiple people. enough that people started keeping track of it. the rng is a known element. the guy that puts it into place in code is just a normal coder though. he can make mistakes believe it or not.he is just a human."X number of times in a row" doesn't matter to RNGs that are not built with a failsafe (like City's tohit failure streak breaker). Every single attempt is completely separate and not connected in any way, shape, or fashion to any other attempt. A 20% success rate can definitely fail 140 times in a row...it can technically fail 10000000 times in a row for a really, spectacularly unlucky person.
"X number of times in a row" doesn't matter to RNGs that are not built with a failsafe (like City's tohit failure streak breaker). Every single attempt is completely separate and not connected in any way, shape, or fashion to any other attempt. A 20% success rate can definitely fail 140 times in a row...it can technically fail 10000000 times in a row for a really, spectacularly unlucky person.
it can. but to have that happen to multiple characters in a row within the space of a month? very unlikely. of course swtor is run on a shoestring and has a very poor development staff. they cant even get the loot difference on an 8 or 16 man raid right in the space of 2 months."unlikely" doesn't mean "can't". It still means "can very rarely".
"unlikely" doesn't mean "can't". It still means "can very rarely".
I had a 2 1/2 year period 2008-2010 without a single purple drop. I would power level friends and they dropped like skittles for them. I remember on one Rikti radio Mish in RWZ that in the period of just 2 mobs 3 purples dropped for them. A few days after that the purples started dropping for me at a rate of 1 a day.
a neutron star could hit the earth next week. dont plan on missing work though
No it couldn't. It would be impossible for us to not see it coming. Never mind the fact that neutron stars don't behave that way.
I think I only got 2 or 3 purple drops the entire run of the game. Seriously, I never seemed to get one.
I did, however, get a substantial amount of respec drops... An oddly huge amount, I always thought.
When did I say we wouldnt see it coming? and if we did see it coming, what would you do to stop it? and neutron stars dont move through space? alert nasa
Well, if we saw it coming then we would know about it right now, because there's no way
why the pancake am I arguing about this
So this is what a conversation at one of those exclusive wall street investor clubs is like. :)
All of us, long time players had gobs of influence to spend and play with. My whole problem with the system we had in game was that it was simply too confusing for anyone who might be somewhat new to the game.
All this talk of AE farms just further reinforces my feelings of, "I didn't miss a damn thing by not touching the farms." I generally avoided AE like the plague, but if there were worthwhile stories to experience I ran them once per character. Never did see the draw to AE farms...was it really that damn hard to level up/earn inf/whatever that normal gameplay didn't offer? Goodness...Didn't bother me. I didn't go there much after making a couple of missions to make myself laugh. I always meant to try more of the missions people listed on the forums, but rarely got around to it.
Its as bad as swtor having a 20% reverse engineering attempt fail 140 times in a row. for multiple people. enough that people started keeping track of it.
"X number of times in a row" doesn't matter to RNGs that are not built with a failsafe (like City's tohit failure streak breaker). Every single attempt is completely separate and not connected in any way, shape, or fashion to any other attempt. A 20% success rate can definitely fail 140 times in a row...it can technically fail 10000000 times in a row for a really, spectacularly unlucky person.
I played from I7 to close, had 34 50's. very very rarely did AE and never got a respec drop.
There's even a formula for it. If my math is right, starting fresh and reverse engineering 140 items in a row at a 20% success rate, the chance of all 140 failing is 0.000000000002707685%
Being generous and saying that an average character might reverse engineer 5,000 items within a certain time frame, the chance of seeing a 140 failure streak somewhere in that run of 5,000 is 0.00000000263458%
That's a very small number, so if datamining shows that significantly more than roughly 2.6 out of every 1,000,000,000 players has seen a 140 failure streak, it's a good indication to game designers (at least the ones who know math) that their RNG is broken.
There's even a formula for it. If my math is right, starting fresh and reverse engineering 140 items in a row at a 20% success rate, the chance of all 140 failing is 0.000000000002707685%
Being generous and saying that an average character might reverse engineer 5,000 items within a certain time frame, the chance of seeing a 140 failure streak somewhere in that run of 5,000 is 0.00000000263458%
That's a very small number, so if datamining shows that significantly more than roughly 2.6 out of every 1,000,000,000 players has seen a 140 failure streak, it's a good indication to game designers (at least the ones who know math) that their RNG is broken.
I'll say this about the city of heroes auction house. It was a far more stable platform than what i've seen in DCUO or CO. The prices if they were high and did start dropping, usually only dropped for legitimate reasons and it was usually gradual. CO? Well, often what happens is because everyone can see the prices of the items, you get what I love to call an "Underbid war", in which, due to the rather short timer of putting things up for sale(your auction would expire after only 15 days), some jerks would eventually see your prices, and put the same items up for a lower price and prevent you from selling at all.
I wonder, when the game returns, who will be the first to get to 50? You know some people are going to race to 50 as fast as they can.
The supply of influence being so insane was the core reason I was highly opposed to AE farming, because I knew that it tended to send a very disproportionate amount of influence into the market. Power leveling from it was one thing as one could stop at 50 but all the 50s doing it see were gaining hundreds of millions of influence in far far less time than anywhere else.
Now, this was something that never made sense to me about AE missions. Inf -- influence, infamy, or information -- was abstracted as your ability to get other people to do things for you because of your reputation. Out of respect for your service to the city, for influence; out of fear of what you might do to them, for infamy; in response to the leverage it could be used for, for information. But all of these represent how the other people viewed your character. AE missions happen entirely in a virtual world; none of the events that occur in an AE mission affect the 'real world'. Completing a mission inside AE gives you practice in the use of your powers, and would thereby gain you experience. But if a new hero went into the AE building at level 1 and did nothing but AE missions, when they came out to get enhancements, nobody would know who he was; as far as they were concerned, he'd never done anything to protect Paragon City -- in the 'real world', he wouldn't have any influence, because he hadn't done anything in the 'real world'. It doesn't matter how many times you crawled into your electronic navel and soloed Emperor Cole, or Reichsman, or U'kon G'rai; none of that was real. Tickets, sure; that's the AE system's internal reward system to encourage you to participate. But gaining any sort of reputation from defeating virtual ghosts? Not a chance. Level from 1 to 50 inside AE, and you come out and try to play on your reputation, and people are going to ask who you are; they would never have heard of you, except perhaps in a news story about the victims of AE addiction.
AE missions should give you XP and tickets; if you want to earn inf, you should have to go out in the 'real world' and do things that other people can see you doing to build your reputation.
Umm... are you thinking about something else? You couldn't buy purple recipes with reward merits, no matter how many you had.
There was also no way to convert between AE tickets and reward merits, or any way to earn merits from AE missions as far as I know. The merit system also predates AE.. they were introduced in Issue 13 and 14, respectively.
You could buy purples for 20 Hero/Villain merits, available only by doing morality missions (2 day minimum to get one), conversion from 50 reward merits (1 day cooldown), and the SSAs once they were added (1 week cooldown for each).
You could also get them for Empyrean merits by doing iTrials, which IIRC also had an internal cooldown on how often they could be earned.
What did make a huge difference on prices across the board was enhancement converters. In general rare stuff like PVP IOs were still expensive, but less so as it tended to average out with the cheaper ones that nobody wanted + the cost of converters.
You want real eye burning... I only used the formula for the approximation of the upper bound:Ah, memories. Stats. What fun! :)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=s0.wp.com%2Flatex.php%3Flatex%3DS%2528N%252CK%2529%2B%253D%2B%255CBig%25281%2B%252B%2B%25281%2B-%2Bp%2529%2528N%2B-%2BK%2529%255CBig%2529p%255E%257BK%257D%26amp%3Bbg%3Dffffff%26amp%3Bfg%3D000%26amp%3Bs%3D0)
Here's the formula you'd need to use to get the exact probability:
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=s0.wp.com%2Flatex.php%3Flatex%3DS%2528N%252CK%2529%2B%253D%2Bp%255E%257BK%257D%2B%252B%2B%255Csum_%257Bj%253D1%252CK%257D%2Bp%255E%257Bj-1%257D%2B%25281-p%2529%2BS%2528N-j%252CK%2529%26amp%3Bbg%3Dffffff%26amp%3Bfg%3D000%26amp%3Bs%3D0)
N = Total number of samples
K = Number of failures in a row
p = Probability (0-1) of desired result, in this case failure, which is 0.8
There's even a formula for it. If my math is right, starting fresh and reverse engineering 140 items in a row at a 20% success rate, the chance of all 140 failing is 0.000000000002707685%
Being generous and saying that an average character might reverse engineer 5,000 items within a certain time frame, the chance of seeing a 140 failure streak somewhere in that run of 5,000 is 0.00000000263458%
That's a very small number, so if datamining shows that significantly more than roughly 2.6 out of every 1,000,000,000 players has seen a 140 failure streak, it's a good indication to game designers (at least the ones who know math) that their RNG is broken.
Math I can still do (probably). To put it in easier to understand terms, the odds of a 140 failure in a row run of something with an independent chance to fail of 80% is 36,931,914,471,142 to 1 - 37 trillion to 1. The odds of a single player seeing such a run after 5000 tries is about one in 38 billion. Incidentally, the recursive exact computation for the second calculation is *just* within the bounds of Wolfram Alpha, unless you're a pro subscriber.(https://i.imgur.com/gFSzZh6.gif)
And yes, I don't think there's any way the MMO in question has sufficient subscribers to make this observation credible. However, there are three things that can cause this and bad RND is only one of them. Misuse of the RND in the code is the second, and improper observation is the third.
And now that I've double checked my notes, I did conflate AE tickets with alignment merits. That's another thing that's fallen off the edge of FIFO memory.
Math I can still do (probably). To put it in easier to understand terms, the odds of a 140 failure in a row run of something with an independent chance to fail of 80% is 36,931,914,471,142 to 1 - 37 trillion to 1. The odds of a single player seeing such a run after 5000 tries is about one in 38 billion. Incidentally, the recursive exact computation for the second calculation is *just* within the bounds of Wolfram Alpha, unless you're a pro subscriber.
And yes, I don't think there's any way the MMO in question has sufficient subscribers to make this observation credible. However, there are three things that can cause this and bad RND is only one of them. Misuse of the RND in the code is the second, and improper observation is the third.
And now that I've double checked my notes, I did conflate AE tickets with alignment merits. That's another thing that's fallen off the edge of FIFO memory.
Even in CoH there were lots of stupidly rare events going on, my favourite was one of the veteran attacks with a 75% to-hit chance and no modifiers either way (I had the last to-hit displayed at the time so I know this) missing 24 times in a row in among other attacks that were hitting normally so no streakbreaker, then later in the same day it missing 21 times in a row. I suspect some circumstances cause the RNG seed not to regenerate properly and it not actually be random.
AE missions should give you XP and tickets; if you want to earn inf, you should have to go out in the 'real world' and do things that other people can see you doing to build your reputation.This makes a huge amount of sense to me. Perhaps the CoT or APR people will take note of it for their efforts.
Even in CoH there were lots of stupidly rare events going on, my favourite was one of the veteran attacks with a 75% to-hit chance and no modifiers either way (I had the last to-hit displayed at the time so I know this) missing 24 times in a row in among other attacks that were hitting normally so no streakbreaker, then later in the same day it missing 21 times in a row. I suspect some circumstances cause the RNG seed not to regenerate properly and it not actually be random.
I never had gobs of influence :(, I was to much of an altaholic to keep influence around. I did almost hit the influence cap on my old main though. I was trying to get the badge, actually I think I got it.
One other assumption about COH's use of the PRNG that a lot of people made was that random numbers were specific to them -- that if the RNG got seeded with a particular value, such as the clock, then their attacks all came from a specific sequence based on that seed. That couldn't be further from the truth. The same random number source was used not only for player attacks, but for dozens of other things as well. Other players, enemy critter to-hit rolls, pet to-hit rolls, some randomness used by the AI in its thinking, choosing which animation to play if there are multiple equivalent possibilities (some brawl variants had this, the dice roll emote used it, etc), reward rolls if anything on the same map was defeated.
By the time you queued up another attack, dozens or more random numbers had been generated in the interim. Indeed the unpredictable nature of when random numbers were needed and sampled from the PRNG introduced a lot of real entropy into the system, entropy fed mostly by player actions and amplified by complex interactions of systems. It wouldn't surprise me if that's part of why Arcana's statistical analysis showed a good distribution despite the underlying system being technically deterministic.
Depending on the PRNG algorithm used and if it was cyclical (most decent ones are not), re-seeding the generator might have been completely unnecessary and was probably never done at all once the server was running.
There is only one confirmed instance of an issue with random numbers in COH I can think of: purple recipe drop rates were observed by some players as being far lower than they should have been, and it was brought to developer attention thanks to the tireless efforts of players parsing logs and documenting tens of thousands of drops. I forget which red name posted the final breakdown, but it turned out to not be an issue with the RNG at all (which was functioning perfectly), but rather a bug involving an uninitialized variable in the rewards code. Said bug caused players to sometimes be incorrectly disqualified from the purple drop table, depending on what ended up in a specific memory address. I think that bug may have persisted for nearly a year before it was squashed.
I actually thought I had just missed some way to get purples and merits from AE given that Arcanaposts tend to spout metaphysical certainties.
I actually thought I had just missed some way to get purples and merits from AE given that Arcanaposts tend to spout metaphysical certainties.
I must be conflating AE merits and the merit system, or possibly having an episode of dementia. And why are you all in my house?Where's the cheese? I've got all this whine but no cheese. How can you not have any cheese?
(words words words)
The odds of coming up all sixes is 46,656 to one. But the odds of the dice coming up *interesting-looking* is a lot higher, because people categorize a lot of different possibilities as interesting.
In most cases I examined where someone thought the streakbreaker was broken, the root cause was due to a mistaken belief that the streakbreaker affected attacks when it affected attackers. What this meant was that everything you did that incurred a tohit roll, including things like non-autohitting auras, would be part of the streakbreaker streak calculations. Suppose you are attacking with nothing but well-slotted attacks and also happen to have a damage aura turned on that wasn't slotted. You could have the aura missing at very low tohit chance and that would allow the streakbreaker to accept a large number of misses in a row, even if all of your "attacks" appeared to have high chance to hit.
But in this case there's another explanation. At least when it was first enabled the "last tohit" thing in the real numbers display wasn't accurate. It was the unmodified tohit (meaning before target defense and combat modifiers), much like how Mids did the same thing. There were technical reasons for this, but unless someone fixed it late that wasn't trustworthy for streakbreaker. You needed to watch your tohit roll information in your combat chat to be certain of what was going on with the streakbreaker. I don't think that was ever fixed, although my memory is not as good as when I was a youngin.
The RND used by CoH for tohit calculations itself was, to the best of anyone's ability to detect, random enough for MMO purposes. It had a bit of a roundoff skew in the ten thousandths place (hundredth of a percent) which no one would notice, and because of the way it was used it had a peculiar alias that ended up making exact rolls of zero and 100 slightly off (also unnoticeable), but that was it. The slight skews I could detect were several orders of magnitude smaller than anything players could detect observationally, and I could detect those but not the others that were reported.
This one was when the display was working properly, I could use the same attack and have different results displayed against foes that adjusted it.
I wasn't claiming the streakbreaker was off, I was saying it didn't apply because I'd have sands of mu misses, 3 other attacks some of which hit, sands of mu misses again and I was talking about 24 successive sands of mu misses not 24 successive overall misses.
Now, this was something that never made sense to me about AE missions. Inf -- influence, infamy, or information -- was abstracted as your ability to get other people to do things for you because of your reputation. Out of respect for your service to the city, for influence; out of fear of what you might do to them, for infamy; in response to the leverage it could be used for, for information. But all of these represent how the other people viewed your character. AE missions happen entirely in a virtual world; none of the events that occur in an AE mission affect the 'real world'. Completing a mission inside AE gives you practice in the use of your powers, and would thereby gain you experience. But if a new hero went into the AE building at level 1 and did nothing but AE missions, when they came out to get enhancements, nobody would know who he was; as far as they were concerned, he'd never done anything to protect Paragon City -- in the 'real world', he wouldn't have any influence, because he hadn't done anything in the 'real world'. It doesn't matter how many times you crawled into your electronic navel and soloed Emperor Cole, or Reichsman, or U'kon G'rai; none of that was real. Tickets, sure; that's the AE system's internal reward system to encourage you to participate. But gaining any sort of reputation from defeating virtual ghosts? Not a chance. Level from 1 to 50 inside AE, and you come out and try to play on your reputation, and people are going to ask who you are; they would never have heard of you, except perhaps in a news story about the victims of AE addiction.
AE missions should give you XP and tickets; if you want to earn inf, you should have to go out in the 'real world' and do things that other people can see you doing to build your reputation.
It's funny - some people saw the AE as "OMG, new content."
Others as "Hellooooooo, farm central."
Me? "BOOYAH, CUSTOMIZABLE FILMING ENVIRONMENT!"
When the game goes live again, I'll need to finish my 10-mission, 2-part story arc "The War Witch Task Force."
Thank heavens I still have all my AE files, so I won't have to recreate all my previous work.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
I had a 10 part mission arch in the making. I'm considering starting it up again, though now I actually have an even better grasp of what I really want to do with it.I only ever created one AE mission. I was originally doing it for the badge/accolade, but I made it into a small comedy arc based on a passing joke from one of my friends. Since Azuria's always losing things (or having them stolen), he suggested an AE mish where Azuria sends you out to retrieve a rather...explicit...video from her time at Hogwarts. So I actually made it, to the amusement of my SG, and called it "Azuria's Indiscretions."
As it was I was planning on making it increasingly difficult as the missions progress, but some of the things I'd played since, yeah, I can't wait for city of heroes to be back up.
Wish I saw this earlier and I agree that influence shouldn't be rewarded in AE. It'd not only make more sense but also prevent the hyper inflation we saw when it did.
I only ever created one AE mission. I was originally doing it for the badge/accolade, but I made it into a small comedy arc based on a passing joke from one of my friends. Since Azuria's always losing things (or having them stolen), he suggested an AE mish where Azuria sends you out to retrieve a rather...explicit...video from her time at Hogwarts. So I actually made it, to the amusement of my SG, and called it "Azuria's Indiscretions."
The mission souvenir was "A fat stack of hush money - now keep your mouth shut!" :)
I had a 10 part mission arch in the making. I'm considering starting it up again, though now I actually have an even better grasp of what I really want to do with it.nice :) I too had an ongoing epic arc, however, I stopped when I found out no body was playing them I would spend months on them to get them how I wanted them to be represented. And for my troubles I had to coheres my global friends into playing them. The only thing I asked is they be brutally honest. My first mission (I call this my George Lucas arc) because I wanted a way for telling what started a great war. It got 50 plays and it was a 4 star. My 4th arc was a 25 5 star arc. Then I started to notice that less people played my last 4 arcs with a total of 6 5 stars. To say the least I was dishearten and I carry this into STO's mission editor. In that I made a return to wolf 359 and it is 50% done then I remembered what is the point. Some people will always play the farming missions.
As it was I was planning on making it increasingly difficult as the missions progress, but some of the things I'd played since, yeah, I can't wait for city of heroes to be back up.
nice :) I too had an ongoing epic arc, however, I stopped when I found out no body was playing them I would spend months on them to get them how I wanted them to be represented. And for my troubles I had to coheres my global friends into playing them. The only thing I asked is they be brutally honest. My first mission (I call this my George Lucas arc) because I wanted a way for telling what started a great war. It got 50 plays and it was a 4 star. My 4th arc was a 25 5 star arc. Then I started to notice that less people played my last 4 arcs with a total of 6 5 stars. To say the least I was dishearten and I carry this into STO's mission editor. In that I made a return to wolf 359 and it is 50% done then I remembered what is the point. Some people will always play the farming missions.
When City of comes back please,please,please have a way for people to post their arcs here or on the official boards.
I had a really fun arc where, for the 1st 4 missions, you rescued 4 of my hero toons from 4 of my villain toons... with the 5th mission being you team up with the 4 heroes to take down the 4 villains and their minions. Very fun, and very tough.nice :), that is how I figured the last mission, it had to be hard so I made the av /wp and I want to say fire/. There were only three people who played it myself, my brother, and one of his friends. In that arc, I killed Statesman even before Paragon did it :D. I also killed another hero atm I don't recall who though. :(. I want Statesman's death to mean something to Recluse and the world. (That is not to say it did not have the same impact on the game, when Paragon did it.)
I misunderstood your point. However, I don't believe improper reseeding could explain your observations either.
First one I created on the test server was when Positron wanted us to test the profanity/content filters.
So I made a one-shot mission called "Positron Gets Some." Synapse was the contact, and he set you up with introducing Positron to a bunch of Carnies, and the end-boss Carnie Mistress had a crapton of suggestive dialogue. (And the souvenir was a condom.) When Matt found out about it, his only comment was:
"*facepalm*"
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
I've forgotten, because I never built a mission around one, but could you use the outdoor mission maps for AE?http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mission_Architect_Unique_Maps
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mission_Architect_Unique_Maps
Lots of outdoor maps. (List is not even complete!)
Lucky you. He's one of my top 5 favorite authors. I seem to recall reading somewhere, maybe on these boards, that he kept having issues with the moderators telling him he couldn't use Harry Dresden as a character name. They weren't able to understand that he owned the copyright or something?
Lucky you. He's one of my top 5 favorite authors. I seem to recall reading somewhere, maybe on these boards, that he kept having issues with the moderators telling him he couldn't use Harry Dresden as a character name. They weren't able to understand that he owned the copyright or something?
There were other ludicrous sequences as well, upgrading SOs on levelling, a mix of 75% and 80% chances, 24 straight successes followed by 6 straight failures.
The Wyatt Earp effect is the effect of thinking something extremely unlikely - in this case Wyatt Earp surviving all of his gunfights - must be due to something other than chance. The problem in this case is that enough people got into gunfights back then that the odds of *one* of them coming out of many gunfights alive is a lot higher than the odds that Wyatt Earp specifically would have done so. We only talk about Wyatt Earp because he happened to be the one that did. The odds of winning the lottery are very slim, but someone always does. That doesn't mean Wyatt Earp wasn't a good gunfighter, it just means we have to be extremely careful about what we attribute to chance, and what is postscript selection that has nothing to do with chance.It's even crazier with Wyatt Earp. Not only did he survive every encounter he was ever in....he never was wounded by a bullet!
To be statistically blunt, the odds of Wyatt Earp surviving all his gunfights is 100%, because we already witnessed it. We cannot calculate what it "would have been" we can only calculate what the odds of another random person surviving all of those gunfights might have been, and that is a subtle but significantly different thing.
What Wyatt knew...and another factor in the equation, is that guns back then were not very accurate.
Yes, he had to out himself. They were going to generic his Harry Dresden and he had to come out and say - uh, I own Harry and I can play him if I want to!I had heard that he was a CoH player, but I could never get someone to confirm his class and powersets (I'm curious how he built Harry).
Is that ludicrous? 24 / 30 = 80%
The overall total is fair, it's that you got 24 successes in a row (c 1 in 500) followed by 6 failures in a row (c 1/7000) so the chance of this happening (all the successes together and all the failures together) is less than one in a million.
The overall total is fair, it's that you got 24 successes in a row (c 1 in 500) followed by 6 failures in a row (c 1/7000) so the chance of this happening (all the successes together and all the failures together) is less than one in a million.
What Wyatt knew...and another factor in the equation, is that guns back then were not very accurate.
Yes, he had to out himself. They were going to generic his Harry Dresden and he had to come out and say - uh, I own Harry and I can play him if I want to!
They (Firearms in general) were nearly as accurate then as they are today, it is the shooting technique that has changed and improved the shooters accuracy more than anything else. Although the "Blaze Away" mentality still exists today, the higher capacity handguns improve the odds somewhat, throw enough lead downrange and eventually you are bound to hit something.
"Speed is fine, but accuracy is final". . . (Old gunfighters quote.)
The probability of that happening is the exact same as the probability of any other random sequence of hits and misses that average 80% and is well within the norm.
Long streaks that fall far outside the standard deviation are an aberration (and the odds of such an aberration occurring can be calculated), but that doesn't apply to your example.
What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that picking 1-2-3-4-5-6 as your lottery numbers is foolish because it has less of a chance of coming up due to being 'special'. In truth, that sequence has the same (infinitesimal) odds as any other combination of numbers, and is no less likely simply because the human brain sees a pattern in it.
As Arcana was saying earlier, the odds of a random number generator producing something that humans recognize as a pattern are surprisingly high due to how good we are at pattern recognition. Compare the example you gave to instead getting 6 failures in a row followed by 24 successes, or 12-6-12, or a failure every 6th time exactly (and there are at least 5 distinct sequences that do that with different phasing), and so on.
Gail Simone also played CoH.
I had heard that he was a CoH player, but I could never get someone to confirm his class and powersets (I'm curious how he built Harry).
Fire/Energy Blaster IIRCHuh. I would have thought Fire Controller.
I remember it being mentioned but can't remember where.
Actually, Wyatt Earp talked about this issue in his autobiography. He attributed his success in gun fighting to always talking the time to aim. he fought people who out drew him but fired from the hip and just draw and shoot or people who would pull and fan. He shot slower, but hit what he aimed at and generally scoffed at people who used the pray and spray method of gunplay.
He also practiced with the guns he was most comfortable with. In addition, he was pretty smart. When he faced multiple opponents, he brought friends and tried to pick his ground carefully. I'm not saying luck didn't play a part, but he did his best to reduce the part it played as much as he could.
Fire/Energy Blaster IIRC
I remember it being mentioned but can't remember where.
Mark Waid, too
I thought he was a fire/FF troller. At least I seem to recall reading that somewhere.Yes, that was my best guess as well, if I were trying to spec him in CoH format.
And John Rogers (Blue Beetle, showrunner on Leverage and The Librarians). He had a great blog post about how he'd see comics writers on there that he knew had a deadline in two days, because it was so addictive. He called it "crack pizza". :)
They were doing research. Exploring story ideas.
I guarantee that prior to DCUO and Marvel Heroes EVERY comic professional was on CoX. Probably after both of those started too, actually. Bwah-ha-ha-ha!
I mean, where else could they go to live out those fantasies. All those guys write superhero books for a reason. And it sure ain't the money or fame.
Actually this is not really what I was saying (I have a statistics degree btw), what I was suggesting is that IMO p(success after a success) is not the same as p(success after a failure) and this is only one of many examples of this, this was only the most dramatic example, I've seen much longer runs of failures than that for example. I was suggesting that incorrect regeneration of the seed might be one of the possible mechanisms. When you get 12+ failures in a row at 80% and this happens twice in a day for example, you do feel something's up.
Yes, that was my best guess as well, if I were trying to spec him in CoH format.
Why Controller? I can't remember him displaying any fire control powers in the books. Force Fields/Fire Defender makes more sense than Controller IMO. Blaster also makes sense since he shot fire blasts, force blasts, and even had his kinetic ring for knockback punch.
Later in the series (and after whatever Issue opened up all Archtypes to everyone) you could possibly say Ice/Fiery Dominator since the Mantle of Winter did give him some cold control powers.
e-
Why Controller? I can't remember him displaying any fire control powers in the books. Force Fields/Fire Defender makes more sense than Controller IMO. Blaster also makes sense since he shot fire blasts, force blasts, and even had his kinetic ring for knockback punch.It's admittedly difficult to translate most fantasy spellcasters into CoH terms, given that most of them have a wide variety of powers. However, Blasters shoot things - and that's pretty much all they can do. Harry was capable of more than just shooting things until they stopped moving, hence I would hesitate to make him a Blaster. You could split the difference and go with Dominator.
Later in the series (and after whatever Issue opened up all Archtypes to everyone) you could possibly say Ice/Fiery Dominator since the Mantle of Winter did give him some cold control powers.
e-
As far as the "Why?" part... If Jim Butcher decided that in COH terms, Harry was a Fire/FF troller, then that's what COH Harry was. Jim knows Harry better than anyone... That's what he felt best fit Harry Dresden, so he rolled the toon.
I'm not asking why Butcher did anything, I'm asking why people think Controller since I just don't see it. Harry has zero Controller primary abilities but he does have quite a few Blaster primary and secondary abilities. He also has quite a few abilities that match Defender powers.Process of elimination, mostly. Often when people have discussed CoH analogs to magic users of all kinds controller tended to come up just due to the diversity of effects at your disposal with controllers verses other archetypes. The other archetypes tend, on average, to be more focused on specific effects. Eliminating the melee archetypes and Blasters you're generally left with defenders and controllers. Controllers have defender primaries as their secondary and control sets instead of ranged blasts: that tends to offer far more options for conceptual fidelity.
My opinion is that Defender is a lot more likely for a character based on Harry.
If Butcher says troller, that's fine, his character both in and out of the game, and that's what he wanted to play. I just don't see the character, as written, matching Controller and wonder why people would immediately think it.
e-
Process of elimination, mostly. Often when people have discussed CoH analogs to magic users of all kinds controller tended to come up just due to the diversity of effects at your disposal with controllers verses other archetypes. The other archetypes tend, on average, to be more focused on specific effects. Eliminating the melee archetypes and Blasters you're generally left with defenders and controllers. Controllers have defender primaries as their secondary and control sets instead of ranged blasts: that tends to offer far more options for conceptual fidelity.
I've always considered Green Lantern (and other Lanterns) to fall along these lines, too: Defenders, Corruptors, Controllers, and Dominators, with the exact AT depending on the specific Lantern's temperment. (I could see classic Hal Jordan as a Grav/FF Controller, John Stewart as a FF/Energy Defender, and Guy Gardner as an Energy/FF Corruptor; I see classic - i.e., before all the "emotional spectrum" stuff - Sinestro as a Grav/Energy Dominator, with current "yellow = fear" Sinestro as a Dark/Dark Dominator; etc)I had an Earth/Energy Dominator she used the crystal animations for the controlery part/ It worked pretty well for constructs and stuff.
My first Dominator was a Grav/Elec Dominator loosely based on classic Sinestro (the "Elec" part is why it's loosely based, though the Voltaic Sentinel made a nice "construct" thematically), and one of my other Dominators was Fire/Fire, based on Hal Jordan as a Red Lantern.
If I24 had gone live, the new Sorcery pool and its eclectic variety of abilities would have helped create a bit more "jack of all trades" variety for magical characters.
I had an Earth/Energy Dominator she used the crystal animations for the controlery part/ It worked pretty well for constructs and stuff.
Interesting article, I thought about CoH while reading.
http://massivelyop.net/2015/02/13/eff-wants-to-exempt-some-emulated-game-servers-from-copyright-laws/ (http://massivelyop.net/2015/02/13/eff-wants-to-exempt-some-emulated-game-servers-from-copyright-laws/)
That needs to be strongly supported. Intellectual Property rights (patent and copyright) are temporary licenses granted to ensure IP is made AVAILABLE, not so somebody can lock up IP so that nobody can use it.
That needs to be strongly supported. Intellectual Property rights (patent and copyright) are temporary licenses granted to ensure IP is made AVAILABLE, not so somebody can lock up IP so that nobody can use it.
I should point out this statement is an expression of the legal foundation for intellectual property (copyright and patent) rights within the US Constitution. It is not the sole legal justification for intellectual property protection worldwide or historically. There are other legal justifications for intellectual property rights based on the presumption of a fundamental right of creators to control their work. However, no such specific right exists within the US Constitution itself, and any discussion of the DMCA would of course presume US law.What I can say is it does result in money/buying/selling across state lines. The supreme court has ruled it becomes federal once multi state sales become involved among other things. In this case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbons_v._Ogden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbons_v._Ogden) It was 'permits' in question. It sounds comparable to Ips if you ask me. Both end up as a piece of paper with semi unreal product I think. Close to equal if you ask this scholar.
I have often wondered what a Constitutional scholar would say if someone attempted to argue that while the copyright clause itself limits Congress to limited times and limited purposes in granting IP protection, the Commerce clause theoretically grants significantly more power to do so in an unlimited fashion under the right conditions. There exists no constitutional legal doctrine I'm aware of that implies the reach of one constitutional clause is automatically limited by an enumerated power in another clause even if not explicitly stated. That might be an interesting test case for a Supreme Court that wanted to do so to curtail the reach of the Commerce clause. Although the current court doesn't seem to be such a court. The Commerce clause seems to consistently be the hammer that drives the Necessary and Proper wedge through Constitutional Gordian Knots (now that's an odd mixed metaphor).
I should point out this statement is an expression of the legal foundation for intellectual property (copyright and patent) rights within the US Constitution. It is not the sole legal justification for intellectual property protection worldwide or historically. There are other legal justifications for intellectual property rights based on the presumption of a fundamental right of creators to control their work.
The silence killing anyone else? lol..Although over the last month I've become more positive for a CoH return. I think the silence is a good thing but it's also a real patience tester. A general update from someone would be welcomed, I know the NDA's but something really general where maybe we could read between the lines. ;D
But all the international structures include the concept of time limitation on IP as opposed to every other form of property.
The historical basis of US/English/European law on IP as applied to world trade is the core of all IP law as it exists. The recognition is that artistic works are not "property" in the sense of lands or resources and that the value to society involves their use as opposed to their suppression.
The Twilight series itself is silly juvenile pulp romance and 50 Shades is the even more ludicrous fanfiction based on that.
The Twilight series itself is silly juvenile pulp romance and 50 Shades is the even more ludicrous fanfiction based on that.
Reminder to potential authors writing awful fanfic: The Internet never forgets!
No matter how much you wish that it would.
I'm sure the author is crying all the way to the bank. :D
Exactly.
I remember a pretty good modern fantasy/vampire series by Laurel Hamilton. It was solid, largely because it didn't give in too much to the "let's add porn to the plot" syndrome. But after a good amount of books, it shifted pretty strongly to the sexual fantasy side of the aisle. to the point where I stopped reading it.
And I always had the feeling that many of her readers were female, and her editor kept getting suggestions about adding more sexual scenes to the books. So I wonder if it was the author who shifted her style, or the audience who told her that's what they want. And in most careers, well, money talks.
Based on her Merry Gentry series, I'm thinking it was the author that shifted steadily more kinky rather than being pushed to do so by readership. Also, from Mary Sue-lite to Mary Sue: the post-doctorate edition.Quite. I started out liking the AB series, but then it degenerated into "all porn and rape all the time" and I stopped buying the books. I got as far as like halfway through Obsidian Butterfly, and decided that I was done with the series. From recaps of later books, I'd say that I bailed out just in time, if not a bit late.
The older European antecedents of IP law are based on the "moral rights" of creators (cf: droit moral). This concept did not and does not contain the same presumption that the purpose of artistic protection is to ultimately benefit society or that such works should ever, at any time, necessarily escape the control of the creator. As a practical matter those rights tended to have expiration dates, but not because of the reason you give as a foundation of the legal justification. Because that concept did not find its way into the US Constitution, US IP law tends to focus more on the issue of proper financial compensation to creators balanced against the net overall benefit to society, while in many other parts of the world copyright is coupled with other rights not generally recognized in the US, such as the right to preserve the integrity of published works (i.e. to prevent other people from modifying the original work itself, even if financial control is transferred).
Sure, but I thought "moral rights" referred only to the... reputational (??? is perhaps a word???) elements of attribution and creative integrity.
The Statute of Anne starts off:
"Whereas Printers, Booksellers, and other Persons, have of late frequently taken the Liberty of Printing, Reprinting, and Publishing, or causing to be Printed, Reprinted, and Published Books, and other Writings, without the Consent of the Authors or Proprietors of such Books and Writings, to their very great Detriment, and too often to the Ruin of them and their Families: For Preventing therefore such Practices for the future, and for the Encouragement of Learned Men to Compose and Write useful Books; May it please Your Majesty, that it may be Enacted..."
"for the Encouragement of Learned Men to Compose and Write useful Books; May it please Your Majesty, that it may be Enacted..."
Even then, the justification of the wealth of society is recognized right along with the support of the creator
-- and again, suppression of material is the exact opposite of the intent of the laws.
To take the pressure off - I thought I would share this review of 50 Shades of Grey by an MMA fighter - Yves Edwards:
I will take issue 23. Ha, I would take issue 6. I would take issue 1! I will take anything!I dunno about issue 1... we didn't have shit in issue 1 :P
[pssst, is there any chance we could work those I24 costume pieces in eventually... ? 8) ]
I dunno about issue 1... we didn't have pancake in issue 1 :P
Issue 1 was badly broken.holy crap that's not rubberbanding its unintentional teleporting :roll:
Terrible server lag and it wasn't fixed until after Issue 2. I remember rubberbanding backwards half a zone. Issue 3-4 would be the classic uber powerful fixes. All the broken stuff was there as far as being overpowered and yet many bugs were fixed. If you want the SO only no market/Inventions - Issue 3-4 is what you want otherwise known as the Rise of the Fire Tanker.
I once herded the entire Crystal room in the Eden Trial on a Fire Tank - then 2 blasters nuked and destroyed all the Crstals except for the huge amount of baby spawns.
Issue 1 was badly broken.
Terrible server lag and it wasn't fixed until after Issue 2. I remember rubberbanding backwards half a zone. Issue 3-4 would be the classic uber powerful fixes. All the broken stuff was there as far as being overpowered and yet many bugs were fixed. If you want the SO only no market/Inventions - Issue 3-4 is what you want otherwise known as the Rise of the Fire Tanker.
Issue 1 was badly broken.
Terrible server lag and it wasn't fixed until after Issue 2. I remember rubberbanding backwards half a zone. Issue 3-4 would be the classic uber powerful fixes. All the broken stuff was there as far as being overpowered and yet many bugs were fixed. If you want the SO only no market/Inventions - Issue 3-4 is what you want otherwise known as the Rise of the Fire Tanker.
I once herded the entire Crystal room in the Eden Trial on a Fire Tank - then 2 blasters nuked and destroyed all the Crstals except for the huge amount of baby spawns.
If I recall correctly the one thing you lose in I3 is perma-unstoppable tele-tanks. I think you still have perma-MoG and perma-Elude. /Dark and Ice/ were still hosed. Burn was still ridiculous, and Terra Volta was still a shooting gallery.
When people think of the "good old days" they are mostly thinking about Issue 3, but there are exceptions: Invuln tankers thinking about Issue 1 or AR/Devs thinking about release. Most people who think pre-I2 were the good old days are either thinking about some very specific narrow circumstances or are probably mistaken.
The radiation and dark debuffs had no range limit. You could superspeed to the end of a mission - debuff one and run back and literally draw the entire mission to a couple of waiting blastes and clear the entire mission in 5 minutes. Individually you were weaker in the Issue 3-4 period but as a team you were in many cases unkillable with stacking buffs/debuffs and unranged powers, no aggro cap and no damage cap number.Oh, I remember accidentally herding an entire floor of tsoo with my dark defender. I was a moron and put my dark debuff on the sorcerer. The sorcerer teleported to near the end of the floor and ran back to us aggroing everything on the way. We were surviving thanks to the debuff until the sorcerer teleported again. Then the mound of caltrops combined with everything else to slaughter us quickly enough.
After inventions solo you were stronger - but team wise you could do insane things like herd 500+ freaks into a dumpster in Creys.
The radiation and dark debuffs had no range limit. You could superspeed to the end of a mission - debuff one and run back and literally draw the entire mission to a couple of waiting blastes and clear the entire mission in 5 minutes. Individually you were weaker in the Issue 3-4 period but as a team you were in many cases unkillable with stacking buffs/debuffs and unranged powers, no aggro cap and no damage cap number.
After inventions solo you were stronger - but team wise you could do insane things like herd 500+ freaks into a dumpster in Creys.
The radiation and dark debuffs had no range limit. You could superspeed to the end of a mission - debuff one and run back and literally draw the entire mission to a couple of waiting blastes and clear the entire mission in 5 minutes.
I once herded the entire Crystal room in the Eden Trial on a Fire Tank - then 2 blasters nuked and destroyed all the Crstals except for the huge amount of baby spawns.
I once herded the entire Crystal room in the Eden Trial on a Fire Tank - then 2 blasters nuked and destroyed all the Crstals except for the huge amount of baby spawns.
The radiation and dark debuffs had no range limit. You could superspeed to the end of a mission - debuff one and run back and literally draw the entire mission to a couple of waiting blastes and clear the entire mission in 5 minutes.
I used to clear missions on my dark/dark defender with that. Run to the end of the map, toggle darkest night on the end group, go back to the start. Wait around a corner, drop Tar patch, summon Dark fuzzy, wait for the swarm. Then Melt them with tentacles/nightfall.
I'm trying to remember what precise moment this would have been possible. Originally, generators buffed each other without limit, which meant people who didn't know that and herded DE would discover the cairns had buffed everything to the resistance cap while the quartz had everything buffed to the tohit ceiling. Nukes wouldn't hit hard enough to take out multibuffed cairns if I recall correctly until that cross-buffing was removed. And teams relying on defensive bubbles or powers would simply melt.
It was small consolation when the inexperienced Invuln tank would try to herd up a map of DE and discover his invincibility became suddenly very vincible. I saw many teams have no choice but to try to reset the map because the concentration of generators was just totally out of their league.
In any case, this sounds like it would have had to happen before the aggro cap and after the generator buff immunity, but I'm not sure what that particular overlap of time was.
You know your beloved dead game is actually real dead when, looking for recent updates on a topic related to its actual resurrection, you can only read pages, pages, and more pages of bittersweet old memories and technical issues about obsolete mechanics. :'(
You know your beloved dead game is actually real dead when, looking for recent updates on a topic related to its actual resurrection, you can only read pages, pages, and more pages of bittersweet old memories and technical issues about obsolete mechanics. :'(Amen. I'm glad for the new sticky and I've turned on notifications, but I'm not holding my breath.
You know your beloved dead game is actually real dead when, looking for recent updates on a topic related to its actual resurrection, you can only read pages, pages, and more pages of bittersweet old memories and technical issues about obsolete mechanics.
Awww, Twisted! That had such a bad ending! And I was figuring everything would be okay after all that....
Go! Go change that ending! Naaaaowwww! ;D
PS/ Did you make that up?
I'm curious what the benefit of melting them at the entrance is vs just melting them where they are.
Well, at the time, there was no difficulty slider so soloing would have you facing off against 3 minions or 1 minion/1 leutenant in a group. Also there was no cap on aggro or AOEs, so you could just gather up an entire map and nuke them at once.
Dragging them to the entrance specifically just made sure I had a safe place to wait for them.
I like to pretend the hamsters are on strike and once they reach an agreement with the new crew. The game will be back up and running......
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3602/3407882081_994dd707bb.jpg)
How could you not know the great Monty Python!?!? For shame! You ought to go sit on the Shame Step for that!
How could you not know the great Monty Python!?!? For shame! You ought to go sit on the Shame Step for that!
I'm ALMOST tempted to convert "The Dead Parrot" to COH terms.
How could you not know the great Monty Python!?!? For shame! You ought to go sit on the Shame Step for that!
Just don't say mattress. We may not have a big enough bag for FFM.
A Mattress? That's a female Matt, right?
How could you not know the great Monty Python!?!? For shame! You ought to go sit on the Shame Step for that!
I'd wager Surelle posted that not expecting it'd prompt the Spanish Inquisition.
My favorite pre-ED character was my own personal Sapper. A Kin/elec-def, built mostly around Short Circut. I could stealth into the middle of a group, pop SC, which would 100% drain most minions. I had a couple of other powers set up for END draining for anyone who managed to keep any END after the initial SC. The drained enemies would wander around, unable to take any useful actions. At that point it was a simple matter to finish them all off before they started to regain END.
ED brought an end to the player-Sapper. Pre-ED I could easily floor +1 minions, and even level Lts. Post ED, I was lucky to take off 3/4 of the END from +0s. An angry mob of enemies with 1/4 END would slice right through a squishy def.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Sister_Leortha, about 3/4 of the way down, if anyone cares.
Awww, Twisted! That had such a bad ending! And I was figuring everything would be okay after all that....Although, there are some that are trying to get the Large Man with Dead Body to let CoH (Dead Body that Claims it Isn't) go. The Large Man with Dead Body insists that CoH is dead. Despite CoH wanting to go for a walk. The decision whether to whack it in the head with a club or let it walk is still under negotiation. I'm leaning towards letting it walk and then I'll change the ending.
Go! Go change that ending! Naaaaowwww! ;D
PS/ Did you make that up?
Electric control was a pretty good sapper out of the box. I've been fiddling around with a combination of electric blast and patron pool power sink in mids. the numbers look silly but not sure how it'd work out in game.
My favorite pre-ED character was my own personal Sapper. A Kin/elec-def, built mostly around Short Circut. I could stealth into the middle of a group, pop SC, which would 100% drain most minions. I had a couple of other powers set up for END draining for anyone who managed to keep any END after the initial SC. The drained enemies would wander around, unable to take any useful actions. At that point it was a simple matter to finish them all off before they started to regain END.
ED brought an end to the player-Sapper. Pre-ED I could easily floor +1 minions, and even level Lts. Post ED, I was lucky to take off 3/4 of the END from +0s. An angry mob of enemies with 1/4 END would slice right through a squishy def.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Sister_Leortha, about 3/4 of the way down, if anyone cares.
Awww, Twisted! That had such a bad ending! And I was figuring everything would be okay after all that....I legit had a sad.
Go! Go change that ending! Naaaaowwww! ;D
PS/ Did you make that up?
My Electric/Electric Dominator, Elec/Psi Dominator and my Elec/Elec BLASTER all disagree...
My Blaster regular drained Mobs to little to no end.. and kept them there..
The author of my quote is sorely lacking in movie-going experiences.
Endurance drain is difficult to analyze on-paper because recovery is not continuous. What we think of as continuous endurance recovery is actually more like a periodic heal. Recovery debuff acts to slow down the ticks, not make them smaller. And that means in actual play endurance drain combined with recovery debuff can have a more "jumpy" effect than a casual on-paper analysis would suggest. And if what looks like a continuous drain to zero is actually more of a drain to zero and jumpy on-off recovery that allows critters to fight back in a staccato way. It takes a lot of experience with drain to be able to reasonable guess what on-paper drain will actually do to critters in real combat. Averages don't always match reality.
Ok, my original "Bring out yer dead" post has been edited to help alleviate any ill feelings and also to go along with the current status of CoH.Yes, but what is the air speed of an unladen Longbow? Well, before you shoot them out of the air because they're, you know...Longbow.
Also, What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
Yes, but what is the air speed of an unladen Longbow? Well, before you shoot them out of the air because they're, you know...Longbow.
Ok, my original "Bring out yer dead" post has been edited to help alleviate any ill feelings and also to go along with the current status of CoH.
Also, What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
Also, What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
That would work a lot better if you had referenced a longbow BALLISTA...I was referring to The Whipping Boys of the Rogue Isles (TM), specifically the flying ones:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballista (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballista)
Ok, my original "Bring out yer dead" post has been edited to help alleviate any ill feelings and also to go along with the current status of CoH.
Also, What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
It's only a flesh wound...anyone have a wakie?
Also, What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
my stone/em tank was black knight....
Shame that wild wasteland in new vegas didn't allow for npcs to survive any kind of limb loss. It'd have been funny with the wild wasteland to see a character lose his arms and legs and continue yelling battle cries at you :).In City of Heroes, you could see some odd things happen to NPCs:
my stone/em tank was black knight....
Ok, my original "Bring out yer dead" post has been edited to help alleviate any ill feelings and also to go along with the current status of CoH.??? That's ... an odd thing to do. "Ill feelings"? LOL
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4072/4661864152_ec8beb7af1_o.jpg)
??? That's ... an odd thing to do. "Ill feelings"? LOLWell, I was petitioned to change it NAO! because of the sads, or something like that...
Someone petitioned you to change the ending of a skit done by some wickedly funny dudes in the 70s? No offense, but I don't think you can do better. ;)
Just because someone hasn't seen the movie doesn't mean you need to change any damn thing.
So, how about them coconuts... ;D
Do you mean to suggest that they're migratory?The evidence of coconuts in the local grocery store would indicate that they do, somewhat, migrate. Whether that migration is due to swallows (either African of European) or some other manner, I will leave up to you to discuss. :)
The evidence of coconuts in the local grocery store would indicate that they do, somewhat, migrate. Whether that migration is due to swallows (either African of European) or some other manner, I will leave up to you to discuss. :)
To be honest, I'm 99.9999999999902% sure I couldn't do any better. :-[
So, how about them coconuts... ;D
To be honest, I'm 99.9999999999902% sure I couldn't do any better. :-[I have a lovely bunch of coconuts.... my hovercraft is full of eels
So, how about them coconuts... ;D
Don't feel bad. It's Monty Python; nobody could do funny better than they did. IMO, honestly, very few people on the planet could even do as well.
Now that would've been an awesome travel power! A ninja run clone where you hop along banging two coconut halves together. For those players who were always asking for horse mounts in the game. ;D
Don't feel bad. It's Monty Python; nobody could do funny better than they did. IMO, honestly, very few people on the planet could even do as well.
Now that would've been an awesome travel power! A ninja run clone where you hop along banging two coconut halves together. For those players who were always asking for horse mounts in the game. ;D
Oooh! And a Walk clone too... Silly Walk.
I have a lovely bunch of coconuts.... my hovercraft is full of eelsAnd at least one cat with buttered bread affixed to its back. Otherwise, you'd just have a craft. :o
Agreed. Monty Python and crew are a hard act to imitate, let alone duplicate.
And at least one cat with buttered bread affixed to its back. Otherwise, you'd just have a craft. :o
Wot, a swallow carryin' a coconut?
Turbojet or turbofan?
I know its a glitch, but I still tried to lobby for a mode where the head would roll away and the body would just fall down and then explode, but I was told something something animation resources something blah blah.
That would have certainly made it seem more like "arresting" them instead of "blowing them up inside their tanks".
True story: I had no idea there was even anyone supposedly in the tank until around I6ish. Its not easy to see unless you look closely, and I didn't put much thought into why a large robotic walking assault robot would be carrying a giant aquarium around. I guess I thought that's just how Nemesis rolled.
Agreed and double agreed on this. I understand the reason for the silence, but my god I wish we had some news, especially with everyone being worried by the whole nexon thingI'm patient, but it doesn't help that I first heard about Marvel trying to get the rights to use Spider-Man in their movies in November and they got the deal done by February. It is possible to do a never before done type of deal in a short time period.
I'm patient, but it doesn't help that I first heard about Marvel trying to get the rights to use Spider-Man in their movies in November and they got the deal done by February. It is possible to do a never before done type of deal in a short time period.
I'm patient, but it doesn't help that I first heard about Marvel trying to get the rights to use Spider-Man in their movies in November and they got the deal done by February. It is possible to do a never before done type of deal in a short time period.
Completely different situation. Marvel doesn't need to prove to Sony that they can put Spider-Man into a movie.
Its different for a completely different reason. In the case of Marvel and Sony, both sides had extremely high level people that wanted the deal and worked on it personally. The right people can make a deal happen almost instantly with just a handshake. I'm pretty certain no such people are involved in the deal currently under discussion.
I'm patient, but it doesn't help that I first heard about Marvel trying to get the rights to use Spider-Man in their movies in November and they got the deal done by February. It is possible to do a never before done type of deal in a short time period.
From nov to feb isn't exactly short; but I agree with you. When a deal takes long it is likely because one side really isn't in to it.
Just because you HEARD about the Marvel Sony deal at a certain time and then a deal was done quickly does not necessarily mean the deal wasnt in the works for a much longer time than that,
Well, if we're talking unlimited animation budgets, I wanted my Necromancy mastermind to be able to replace dead(er) minions by animating the bodies of fallen enemies around me. Which could lead to a Simpsons-esque skit of animating a dead Longbow and have it start wandering around moaning "...brains, brains, brains!" Then, when it shuffled over to another Longbow agent to attack them...it would then wander off with a disappointed look on its face still moaning "...brains, brains, brains!" :)
This just reminds me of when the Rikti War Zone went live as a co-op zone, and the story arc with the rogue Longbow. When the contact said, " Still, it would be best if you could do this without any unnecessary action. I have my own problems with Longbow, but we're all on the same side against the Rikti," I just pictured my level 47 Robot/FF Mastermind with the 'Villain' badge, saying, "Ahahahahahahahahaahahhaaaa! Oh, wait--you were serious? Oh, um, yeah. Minimum casualties, totally. **snerk**"Indeed! I always loved that arc - more Longbow to mow down, and a great chance to work on the badge. I always thought Vanguard membership should come with an honorary "We Beat Up Longbow For Lunch Money" badge.
I was under the impression that the first we heard of it was during the hacking thing, so the emails were probably a lot older than from November? I'm sure that Marvel has been trying since day 1 to get all their properties back.
Regarding Nemesis War Hulks, I think it's them and Longbow Chasers are the only ones where pilots "die" - the Sky Raider Skiffs had their pilots fall out.
Its different for a completely different reason. In the case of Marvel and Sony, both sides had extremely high level people that wanted the deal and worked on it personally. The right people can make a deal happen almost instantly with just a handshake. I'm pretty certain no such people are involved in the deal currently under discussion.That's my impression too.
This just reminds me of when the Rikti War Zone went live as a co-op zone, and the story arc with the rogue Longbow. When the contact said, " Still, it would be best if you could do this without any unnecessary action. I have my own problems with Longbow, but we're all on the same side against the Rikti," I just pictured my level 47 Robot/FF Mastermind with the 'Villain' badge, saying, "Ahahahahahahahahaahahhaaaa! Oh, wait--you were serious? Oh, um, yeah. Minimum casualties, totally. **snerk**"
"Hi, Sony, This is Marvel. You remember that Avengers movie?"
"Yeah"
"It made more money than everything you released last year combined."
"Yeah."
"And the Thor movies"
"Yeah"
"And the Captain America movies"
"Yeah"
"And the Iron Man movies"
"Yeah"
"Can we use Spider Man in the next movie? We'll give you a percentage."
"Yes, please do. Use him in every movie. We'll send a catalog, pick any Sony-owned character you want. Use them all. Please. Please!"
Even shorter than that.What I don't get is why FOX is the jerk about it...
"Hi, we're having an Everything Must Go sale (http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/2015/0219/After-losses-Sony-takes-a-step-back-from-TVs-and-smart-phones). How much do you want for Spider-Man?"
What I don't get is why FOX is the jerk about it...
What I don't get is why FOX is the jerk about it...
Marvel canceled its Fantastic Four comic and is literally rebooting its entire comic lineup just to spite Fox. Who's really the one being a dick here?
Marvel canceled its Fantastic Four comic and is literally rebooting its entire comic lineup just to spite Fox. Who's really the one being a dick here?
If the new take by Fox on the characters is popular, they don't want to be publishing a comic that doesn't fit. If two million new fans from the movies want to suddenly buy a comic about their favorite characters...
I'm guessing that if there is a movie impact, it's the other way around.
If the new take by Fox on the characters is popular, they don't want to be publishing a comic that doesn't fit. If two million new fans from the movies want to suddenly buy a comic about their favorite characters...
i wasn't aware they were using the ultimate FF stuff. the actors they got seem a little long in the tooth to be that young so i guess they're not going with the teenage thinktank bit.
Saying "screw Fox lets kill off the FF" seems possible but unlikely. "Fox is being a pain, lets try to limit how much their stuff intrudes on the rest of the Marvel Universe" seems more likely. And if it comes off as a jab on Fox, all the better.
They are probably keeping a close eye on the Sony deal to see how it works out. If it looks lucrative, they will look into it, because making money is where their interest lie, but they were never going to fire the first shot. Their X-Men movies (even the so-so entries) have made them money consistently, so why muddy the waters if you don't have anything to gain by it. Fan love, and appreciation for a contribution to comic movie continuity does not pay the bills you know! :oThe last X-movie made a ton. $748,121,534 worldwide! So Fox will be keeping that franchise for a long time unfortunately. ("fortunately" if you like the Fox X-movies)
The last X-movie made a ton. $748,121,534 worldwide! So Fox will be keeping that franchise for a long time unfortunately. ("fortunately" if you like the Fox X-movies)
I'm totally rooting for failure for the FF movie Fox is making. Would love to see Marvel get those rights back. Although I guess "rooting for failure" is the same as "rooting for Fox to make a FF movie". :D I will never ever ever forgive them for what they did to the Silver Surfer and Galactus. ...and to a lesser degree, Dr Doom.
I'm totally rooting for failure for the FF movie Fox is making. Would love to see Marvel get those rights back. Although I guess "rooting for failure" is the same as "rooting for Fox to make a FF movie". :D I will never ever ever forgive them for what they did to the Silver Surfer and Galactus. ...and to a lesser degree, Dr Doom.
I thought they'd decided AOA would be the last x-movie before another reboot. i know jackman is out after that one and the next wolverine.
I'm totally rooting for failure for the FF movie Fox is making. Would love to see Marvel get those rights back.
They've revealed the F4's costumes for the new movie. They're... featureless black (or maybe dark blue) jumpsuits.
Exciting and iconic.
Hm, I can honestly say I have no confidence in their ability to get an FF movie right.I liked the first two...
Also, R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy :(
Star Trek has lost an icon.
Then again: http://www.laineygossip.com/Hugh-Jackman-wants-to-play-Wolverine-until-he-dies-because-of-Birdman/37755He IS wolverine... make me sadddd... He is IMMORTAL.
There were a few elements of the FF movies that worked OK within the context they set-up for the movies, but I never felt like this was the FF I could love. Just tolerate. I am still waiting for them to get it right, and the signs are not looking good so far that this upcoming effort will be any less of a mess.
looks like as time goes by, peoples hope and anticipation seems to be flagging. hope things go well and start to happen.
looks like as time goes by, peoples hope and anticipation seems to be flagging. hope things go well and start to happen.
I don't think it's necessarily that hope and anticipation is flagging. Not for everyone, at least. I'm still just as hopeful as I was back when this started, I'm just....quiet. Some people may have decided to get on with other things and check back occasionally. Doesn't mean they hope any less, just that they're keeping themselves busy.
looks like as time goes by, peoples hope and anticipation seems to be flagging. hope things go well and start to happen.
No wonder Tony's wondering what to do with the site now.
"Was that over the top? I can never tell..." - Joker, Batman Forever.
Jim Carrey was by far my least favorite Joker.
EVEN IF there is no news, Nate should at least participate here and there to ensure that YES, things are still in order, there's still light for this current development, that it is NOT YET EXPIRED.
He wasn't the Joker. He was the Riddler. ;)
The problem is that 'no news is good news' has been the mantra for too long now, such that to me it's a crock of unfettered male cow's unused food that has been deposited in a field, to be forgotten unless stepped in, to have the foragers of that type of material to gather what they can, and then the rest left to slowly erode away as if it had never been there.
"Was that over the top? I can never tell..." - Joker, Batman Forever.
EVEN IF there is no news, Nate should at least participate here and there to ensure that YES, things are still in order, there's still light for this current development, that it is NOT YET EXPIRED.
Waning interest is NOT GOOD for the effort. There should be some interest, and not a couple of dang rambling threads that aren't anything to do with the original reason for their being there.
It's *cute*, sure... but it's just so unhelpful to those who WANT TO KNOW.
I'm sorry. the 'flagging interest' angle got to me, and woke me up to the reality. This site is getting less posts simply because of what I said just now, though, I'm sure of it.
Used to be there were 3-4 new pages of posts to go through. Now there's less than one. No wonder Tony's wondering what to do with the site now.
Nate, or whomever, NDA or not, you should probably at least stir the tanks a little.
/soapbox.
//profuse apologies for irrirtating, but hadda say it.
///C'mon NCSoft, sell it. Pretty please, with sugar and whip cream on top. Or whatever you desire for toppings, really, if it's some sort of sweet korean BBQ or tangy mustard, I'm not partial to any particular one, whatever you want, I'll get it, just SELL already. *curls up in a fetal position and softy whimpers*
Would it help if I programmed a Nate-bot to post, once a day, that the current state of affairs today is identical to what it was yesterday? Because that is the only thing its likely he could post, even if it made sense for him to post, which it does not.Actually, I'm happy just to receive that "negotiations continue" mini-sort-of-update today. Even one of those once per month is very welcome. No backstage pass needed.
Its easy to say that even if there is no news he should still participate, but I know exactly what would happen under those conditions. Instead of people getting tired of hearing nothing, they would get tired of hearing Nate say there's nothing he can say, but with an extra heaping of badgering.
Everyone wants the backstage pass. Everyone wants the nod-nod wink-wink hint. When people say they just want him to participate even if he can't say anything, they aren't being genuinely truthful. They want a target they can squeeze, and they'll just get more angry when their squeezing fails.
All we can do is flag a notify on the wake me thread (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,10649.0.html) and try to be patient, or watch the Avengers trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAUoeqvedMo) and dream of Hulkbuster epic archetypes.
Actually, I'm happy just to receive that "negotiations continue" mini-sort-of-update today. Even one of those once per month is very welcome. No backstage pass needed.i think we need someone to create the Nate-bot and have it post "Negotiations continue." once a week in the main threads until such time as the negotiations conclude one way or the other.
The respecs were trials, eden, dfb, abandoned sewers, a couple more i think. but no major difference from a TF.
I believe the original idea was that trials would be, in effect, singular missions possibly broken up into segments while task forces were intended to be a chain of missions intended to be completed in sequence. That distinction was generally ambiguous and it was abandoned fairly quickly. If they had kept it, they would have had to invent a term specifically for Doc Q, so there would be trials, task forces, and That Thing.Trials initially tended to have complex mechanics for the boss fight/climax and be slightly more difficult than task forces. The first trials i was familiar with were the Eden, Sewer, and Respec trials, all of which had special mechanics related to the climax whereas task forces were usually a series of themed missions ending in a fairly standard AV or boss fight. And as you say that distinction pretty much went away as new content was added.
If you were a launch player, of course, at one point the difference was "task forces are the ones that are working, trials are the ones that are not working."
I am sorry, I wish things were moving faster for everyone in the community.
An NDA is an NDA and that means that can't talk about it. In fact in many cases you can't even respond that you are under NDA. No news is not good news or bad news - it is what we face. We face an uncertain future but a crushing past. Hope is a difficult thing to wrestle with. When this whole thing started we were dead in the water and while some have criticized me for saying too much - if we didn't spread the information then - nothing would have happened.
I know Nate and the new Overlords would love to tell us what is happening. I would like to thank Nate because he is also sheltering who ever is running the game and taking the flack for them. It is not a fun position to be in and yet the players and the game are worth the effort. Hang in there folks, the night is not forever the dawn will come.
The problem is that 'no news is good news' has been the mantra for too long now, such that to me it's a crock of unfettered male cow's unused food that has been deposited in a field, to be forgotten unless stepped in, to have the foragers of that type of material to gather what they can, and then the rest left to slowly erode away as if it had never been there.
"Was that over the top? I can never tell..." - Joker, Batman Forever.
EVEN IF there is no news, Nate should at least participate here and there to ensure that YES, things are still in order, there's still light for this current development, that it is NOT YET EXPIRED.
Waning interest is NOT GOOD for the effort. There should be some interest, and not a couple of dang rambling threads that aren't anything to do with the original reason for their being there.
It's *cute*, sure... but it's just so unhelpful to those who WANT TO KNOW.
I'm sorry. the 'flagging interest' angle got to me, and woke me up to the reality. This site is getting less posts simply because of what I said just now, though, I'm sure of it.
Used to be there were 3-4 new pages of posts to go through. Now there's less than one. No wonder Tony's wondering what to do with the site now.
Nate, or whomever, NDA or not, you should probably at least stir the tanks a little.
/soapbox.
//profuse apologies for irrirtating, but hadda say it.
///C'mon NCSoft, sell it. Pretty please, with sugar and whip cream on top. Or whatever you desire for toppings, really, if it's some sort of sweet korean BBQ or tangy mustard, I'm not partial to any particular one, whatever you want, I'll get it, just SELL already. *curls up in a fetal position and softy whimpers*
I don't feel particularly accomplished or proud or anything of that nature for having poked the fire a little and got some response, but... I think it needed saying.
These threads are a bit of a train wreck, so an update to the top posts is *highly* appreciated, even if it's just another date, another "yep, it's still cookin'."
But *surely* even NCSoft, as much as we 'know' about them, couldn't be THAT uptight about a teensy little update. It's not like we didn't know that the negotiations are even a thing. All that's needed is a "Update <whatever day it is>: It's still goin' on. Really."
Anyway, the ongoing efforts are appreciated, but man... I know enough about business, software coding, agreements, etc. and all that to be wondering what the REAL hang up is here... I ain't kidding, I can't even imagine why the drag on this...
it's a crock of unfettered male cow's unused food that has been deposited in a field, to be forgotten unless stepped in, to have the foragers of that type of material to gather what they can, and then the rest left to slowly erode away as if it had never been there.
I waited two years. i can wait a little longer. Been playing some FFXIV ARR lately. Its a fun game, but too dependent on making certain classes essential for something to be complete. I miss the "you can be anything and complete missions or TF feel of COH.
Now a question that gonna get me banned probably. What exactly was a trail in COH. I did TF's all the time so I knew those well. I knew Incarnate Trials well. But what were regular trials in COH and what were the good for besides EXP?
Finally if anyone ever talks to the old devs, I was wondering why was the Frostfire badge removed from the game?
[Tim Robbins voice] Remember Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies [/Tim Robbins voice]
What would happen to the team when they passed the NDA?
You mean breach the NDA? In that case, NC Soft can terminate negotiations.
Probably more than that. NDA's usually include language along the lines of, "If any party screws up the deal, you'll owe the other some amount of cash to make up for the lost opportunity."
I would imagine that NCSoft would be in this for at least as much as whatever money is being discussed... so if the current offer is (I'm making this up, as I have ZERO knowledge about this particular case) $5 Million, then if Nate breaks the NDA, the deal could fall through AND NCSoft then comes after Nate for the lost revenue of that $5 Million.
So it's not only "No COH," probably, at stake. There's probably a big chunk o' change at stake, too, if anyone blabs.
Doh, i'd repressed purple cloud Galactus.I'm slightly more hopeful since Days of Future Past. That was still "Wolverine and friends" but I at least liked it.
I thought they'd decided AOA would be the last x-movie before another reboot. i know jackman is out after that one and the next wolverine. i wish they'd make "Magneto: Nazi Hunter!" instead because i know they're going to screw up apocalypse. of course they couldn't do anything worse to him than marvel's writers after the early 90s have.
I don't think I could ever root for a creative effort to be a failure just so someone else can have another shot at it. It also assumes that Fox would be willing to lease it out ala Sony instead of just sitting on it, which certainly hasn't been demonstrated.Oh I know they weren't forced to make those deals that are framed in a way which is detrimental to the characters. (The studios have to make movies to keep the rights whether the public demand is there or not) That doesn't make the deals any better.
So much work goes into a movie and, even it's not to my taste, someone worked pretty hard to make it.
I would also add that Marvel leasing out their big characters was not done at gun point. They may regret the deal now, but they didn't when they got paid. In light of the way things turned out, I am sure they have regrets, but who doesn't?
Technically speaking, Marvel did it to Galactus first - in the Ultimate Galactus series by Warren Ellis. I'm pretty certain Fox pulled from that story line and did not invent the "purple cloud" idea on their own.The Ultimate stuff is pretty dicey. I'm not giving Fox a pass because they decided to use a bad idea someone else thought up. That might just be worse since you can see a bad idea in action first. I can at least understand the artistic blindness that sometimes happens when a person comes up with an idea.
Actually, I'm happy just to receive that "negotiations continue" mini-sort-of-update today. Even one of those once per month is very welcome. No backstage pass needed.Same. That's plenty. I just passed that on to my brother as a matter of fact.
I'm slightly more hopeful since Days of Future Past. That was still "Wolverine and friends" but I at least liked it.
The Ultimate stuff is pretty dicey. I'm not giving Fox a pass because they decided to use a bad idea someone else thought up.
having been under NDA's with companies ( in a different industries) some companies take them VERY seriously.. If they have asked Nate to say NOTHING during negotiations.. then him saying even a LITTLE something is a violation of trust.. which can definitely short circuit a deal..
can he use descriptive pantomime?And now I'm having a flashback to The Silence of the Hams. The agents will exchange secret information using the FBI's new technique - interpretive dance! ;D
just joking
And now I'm having a flashback to The Silence of the Hams. The agents will exchange secret information using the FBI's new technique - interpretive dance! ;D
Sorry but that didn't seem the intention of your original post.
I also don't understand how this thread is a train wreck. When it's been stated OVER and OVER that if there was an update. It'd appear, exactly where this current update has appeared.
I believe comments like this is exactly what others where talking about. Let's let Nate and crew decide what NCSoft is comfortable with them saying. Their the one's dealing with them, so they are the one that would know how "teensy" an update should be.
I don't know you so I don't know what kind of experience you have. But I do know what's been stated here. One dealing with a Korean corporation is a slow process, Two I do know that currently NCSoft is having a power struggle so yeah, I'd think that'd slow things down some. Three, everyone envolved I'm sure has other things their doing/envolved with. So I'd also assume that they may go a week or two without talking. Four, it's March we just got finished with the Holiday season and the Tax season. Those things for me personally take up a lot of my personal time. That would take away from a personal project (Even if it's trying to get the best game in the world back) that I'm working on.
So no I don't feel like it's a:
I know waiting is hard especially when there's a lot of silence (as I've said before) but it's something we'll have to deal with.
The Ultimate stuff is pretty dicey. I'm not giving Fox a pass because they decided to use a bad idea someone else thought up. That might just be worse since you can see a bad idea in action first. I can at least understand the artistic blindness that sometimes happens when a person comes up with an idea.
I saw DoFP the week of release and it was a pretty rowdy theater. When Quicksilver's scene started, the theater actually went almost *silent*. That happens exactly never. Focused cinematic genius on display.
I haven't seen DoFP yet. I've lagging in movie watching lately. :(
I would point out another cinematic genius moment on display that had the opposite effect in the Avengers. Hulk meets Loki. Loki Monolgues. Hulk SMASH! Audience goes wild. I saw the movie twice in the theaters and never did get to hear what Hulk said after flailing Loki around a bit until after we got the Blue Ray and watched it at home. The writers for a lot of the Marvel movies seem to have the knack for that type of thing.
I haven't seen DoFP yet. I've lagging in movie watching lately. :(
I would point out another cinematic genius moment on display that had the opposite effect in the Avengers. Hulk meets Loki. Loki Monolgues. Hulk SMASH! Audience goes wild. I saw the movie twice in the theaters and never did get to hear what Hulk said after flailing Loki around a bit until after we got the Blue Ray and watched it at home. The writers for a lot of the Marvel movies seem to have the knack for that type of thing.
Does he have... googly eyes... on his forehead? o.o
Well, yeah, but in this case Banner is fitted with sensors. At this point in the story Banner is being held by the military and they are monitoring him so they can bring him down if they detect any sign he's about to change into the Hulk. That's part of what makes that transformation so dramatic: Banner is actually *trying* to contain the Hulk up to this point, cooperating with the military in having himself imprisoned, but its in this moment that Banner basically gives up his fight with the Hulk, and just becomes the Hulk. That's the penultimate time Rick sees Banner, but the absolute last time he sees Banner it suggests the war between Banner and the Hulk is over:
Why not? Everything's more fun with googly eyes (http://vandaleyes.net/) :D
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.comicbookgalaxy.com%2Fimages%2Fgrinarmy.jpg)
This, too, I believe ended up in the Avengers movie by way of reference: when Ruffalo (as Banner) says that at one point he got low and tried to end it, that was a small call back to this story.
Wasn't that a reference to a deleted scene from the Ed Norton movie?
On a related note, I am getting more excited about the Avengers: Age of Ultron with each passing day. All of the non-spoiler tidbits, and trailers are hitting all the right notes!The Marvel branch of Disney has seems to have figured out the right stuff for its movies.
The Marvel branch of Disney has seems to have figured out the right stuff for its movies.
No Marvel could not make a movie to save its life. The previous 20+ years of litter demonstrates that.
The Mouse purchased them and knows how to make a few billion from intellectual properties. It has the next 20+ years to rake in the billions.
Well, you have to keep in mind, Marvel Studio's was explicitly created to take control of making movies for their properties because licensing it out did not go as well as they liked. Further to that, the cinematic universe was already conceived (with Thor, Captain America and Avengers planned for) and Iron Man (as well incredible hulk) released before Disney bought Marvel. So, I would argue that Disney's acquisition was like the bellows fanning a fire that had already ignited and just helped it burn hotter.
No Marvel could not make a movie to save its life. The previous 20+ years of litter demonstrates that.
The Mouse purchased them and knows how to make a few billion from intellectual properties. It has the next 20+ years to rake in the billions.
No Marvel could not make a movie to save its life. The previous 20+ years of litter demonstrates that.Huh? Marvel Studios was making good movies before the buyout. After the buyout, they're making good movies with a bigger budget.
The Mouse purchased them and knows how to make a few billion from intellectual properties. It has the next 20+ years to rake in the billions.
Huh? Marvel Studios was making good movies before the buyout. After the buyout, they're making good movies with a bigger budget.
Their movies so far appear to prove you rather wrong.
Side note: Just because a movie makes a lot of money does not mean it "proves" it's a good movie.
In fact, on a brief examination of what appeals to the masses these days (think Michael Bay, Justin Bieber, LiL Wayne, etc.), I would submit that if it makes a buttload of money these days, it's probably NOT good. I realize that's a subjective viewpoint, but I don't like the notion that "because it's popular, it's validated" to be above reproach or criticism. I do believe Marvel has fallen prey to several "big budget tropes" I've seen in many horrible films in the past in some of their latest films.
However, that said, I've actually enjoyed *most* of what Marvel has put out the past few years (and that's saying something, considering I'm a DC guy)...
As I noted, it is subjective, but one cannot argue the fact that standards for movies/TV/music/entertainment have gone way, way down in the past 20 years.
I think it was harder to choose a winner (at least to me) between movies/songs years ago than today. Today's entertainment lacks intellect.
Here's an example:
Pink Floyd's lyrics:
"And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but its sinking. Racing around to come up behind you again. The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older. Shorter of breath and one day closer to death. Every year is getting shorter; never seem to find the time. Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines."
Lyrics from a recent Rihanna song:
He want that cake, cake,
Cake, cake, cake, cake, cake
Cake, cake, cake, cake, cake
Cake, cake, cake
Ooh baby, I like it
You so excited
Don't try to hide it
I'mma make you my bitch
Cake, cake, cake, cake
Cake, cake, cake, cake
Cake, cake, cake, cake
Cake, cake, cake
She sells millions of records, so it must mean it's good, right? >.>
The same could be applied to today's movies.
As someone who has acquired a Film degree, it's painfully obvious to see certain tropes repeated over and over in (especially big budget) movies today.
Again, personal opinion.
As someone who has acquired a Film degree, it's painfully obvious to see certain tropes repeated over and over in (especially big budget) movies today.
Again, personal opinion.
You are attempting to equate the acting and story telling in a comic book movie to something along the lines of Shindler's List. You were -always- going to fail that kind of comparison.
A comic book movie is good merely by the auspices of sticking close to the source material, which in the case of comic books, is a good 90% trope. So far, Marvel have done a bloody good job of doing that, and box office takings are an indicator of that. Don't go judging them by Oscar winnings standards, they're not that kind of movie.
I guess bottom line is that I'd like to see more variety in the comic book universe movie-wise. Right now it's all "Michael Bay style." With the exception of the Nolan trilogy, it's ALL been "bubble gum pop." All of it.
It's pretty simple, really.
Marvel Movies = Fun, good time, smiles from start to end with plenty of 'laugh out loud' moments and one-liners to break up the action. Nothing earth shattering or really thought-provoking, but consistently good quality throughout. Individual director and writer creativity is secondary to maintaining a cohesive universe that people can get invested in.
DC Movies = Darker, grittier. Hit or miss quality -- ranging from really good to really bad and everything in between. Lots of director freedom to put their own spin on it, which can either be a good thing, or a very, very bad thing if you're a fan of the source material. Little to no universe consistency at all, and frequent reboots.
It's personal preference, but I'd rather have the cohesive universe over the rare gem of something interesting. The latter I'd rather see from an occasional one-off film than an entire franchise.
Watchmen?
But, the storytelling (and the acting on most people's parts) was a bit lackluster/rigid.
They are heavens forbid - ENTERTAINING!
I don't always want a message, a depressing look into someone else's misery or to be preached at for being rich, happy or good looking (none of which apply - except happy).
Sometimes I want to see the Hulk ragdoll Loki. Sometimes I want to see Captain America stand up for what is right. Sometimes i want to see a small grumpy raccoon shoot stuff.
Sometimes.
Personally, I think any movie company should get writers/directors who are fans of the material that the movie is about. And who will not try to put their own interpretive spin on the story. I understand that there are limits to what a movie and portray compared to a comic book. However, that is not a good enough reason to make a movie called Starship Troopers and then totally disregard the story, which the movie is based on, in favor of your own. Joss Whedon did a very good job of keeping the characters, in the Avengers movie, in line with the characters in the Avengers comics.
I think that is partially the problem that DC movies have. The characters in the movie aren't the same as the characters in the comics. Of course, with 52 billion DC universes out there, it's hard to keep up.
For the record, I despise the DC 52 universe. They totally ruined many of the characters just for the sake of political correctness and affirmative action.
I also have a beef with Marvel for doing similar things with their characters.
To be fair, from what I read and whatnot, the book starship troopers itself was, besides just more about the main characters life in the military, but the only battle was closer to a "Mary Tzu" victory, in that it had only like 1 casualty the entire war, which would have probably been boring on film. I didn't read the book, but did read that the battle in the book itself was way to lopsided.
It's pretty simple, really.
Marvel Movies = Fun, good time, smiles from start to end with plenty of 'laugh out loud' moments and one-liners to break up the action. Nothing earth shattering or really thought-provoking, but consistently good quality throughout. Individual director and writer creativity is secondary to maintaining a cohesive universe that people can get invested in.
DC Movies = Darker, grittier. Hit or miss quality -- ranging from really good to really bad and everything in between. Lots of director freedom to put their own spin on it, which can either be a good thing, or a very, very bad thing if you're a fan of the source material. Little to no universe consistency at all, and frequent reboots.
It's personal preference, but I'd rather have the cohesive universe over the rare gem of something interesting. The latter I'd rather see from an occasional one-off film than an entire franchise.
To be fair, from what I read and whatnot, the book starship troopers itself was, besides just more about the main characters life in the military, but the only battle was closer to a "Mary Tzu" victory, in that it had only like 1 casualty the entire war, which would have probably been boring on film. I didn't read the book, but did read that the battle in the book itself was way to lopsided.
That's not my recollection. Its been a while since I picked up that book, but the movie does superficially touch on the fact there's two major military encounters that are significant to the story: the first one where they get their butts kicked, and the second one where they attempt to capture the brain (in the novel they are just trying to capture important aliens, possibly including alien "royalty" comparable to insect queens).
The battle of Klendathu, the fight the movie opens on, is described in the book as being so incredibly one-sided - but against humanity - that Earth's ability to project military power is almost annihilated: until they can rebuild the main character finds himself part of a unit that is conducting guerrilla-like hit and run missions against the aliens as the only thing humanity can do after the disaster. In fact, Rico is one of the very few survivors of that battle from his ship and unit.
its worth noting that Verhoeven did not set out to make a cinematic translation of Starship Troopers. He was originally going to make a movie based on a totally unrelated script about space marines fighting an insect-like alien race when the superficial similarities between that script's aliens and the Starship Troopers aliens were pointed out to him. He and his scriptwriter decided to license the Starship Troopers novel but Verhoeven admitted in interviews he couldn't even read it - he felt it was too jingoistic. They tweaked the script to superficially line up characters and events, but Verhoeven put a distinctly anti-fascist spin on the story that essentially eliminates all but the most cursory similarities to the novel. Basically, Verhoeven's Starship Troopers is a political satire in the same vein as Robocop is (in fact the original script pre-Starship Troopers was written by Edward Neumeier, who wrote the script for Robocop).
I think a lot of people are overgeneralizing a bit when they talk about the "Marvel" and "DC" movies forgetting that we're talking mostly about a set of movies from a stretch of time of only about fifteen years. Are the Marvel movies more "fun" and less "gritty?" I'm not sure: the Marvel movies run a very wide range from Guardians of the Galaxy on one end to Winter Soldier on the other. Meanwhile the DC movies tend to be associated most with Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy (primarily) and Man of Steel (secondarily) ignoring, say, Green Lantern (which, I'll beat everyone to it, most people want to ignore). Frankly, unless you go back to the Burton/Schumacher Batmans and the Donner/Lester Superman movies, DC doesn't have enough cinema material I think to really characterize it yet. Its basically Nolan + MoS, and even MoS has Nolan as a producer. Marvel has the benefit of a wider range of directorial visions to date.
I think some of the comic book debates are leaking into the cinema debates. It was always that Marvel was the more popcorn popular books and DC the more "serious" books in terms of story, but I don't think the movies reflect that. Marvel has its popcorn Iron Man movies, but it also has a much more serious, almost Vertigo-like (by comparison) Captain America storylines. It has its fantasy Thor movies and its space-adventure Guardians movie. We'll see where Ant-Man and Inhumans (not to mention Dr. Strange) land, but I think for all that people sometimes complain about Marvel being "safe" movies they are wisely diversifying their slate. I think eventually DC will do the same - or they'll be out of the game pretty quick.
To be fair, from what I read and whatnot, the book starship troopers itself was, besides just more about the main characters life in the military, but the only battle was closer to a "Mary Tzu" victory, in that it had only like 1 casualty the entire war, which would have probably been boring on film. I didn't read the book, but did read that the battle in the book itself was way to lopsided.
I am seriously thinking of trying something myself after playing with UnReal 4 engine
Regarding comics themselves being sillier or not: I'm pretty sure any of DC's Silver Age comics would be pretty silly and non-serious, so saying DC's movies are like its comics is a bit odd... maybe in the last few decades, but it hasn't always been that way.
Regarding movies based on books: for the most part, adapting a book for a movie isn't all that great, but I will say that Minority Report was done really well. I think they took the basic premise (precogs finger the police chief for a future murder) and took it in a really great, 21st century spin on the story. Yeah, they made the ending a bit happier than any Phillip K Dick story has a right to be, but for the most part, it was a really great adaptation - arguably because it didn't stick straight to the story, but only took the premise and went from there.
Starship Troopers was a story about people. Robert Heinlein (one of my favorite authors) wrote a story that does not play well with the Hollywood crowd. It was about self sacrifice and duty and in a similar vein to Superman - the people making the film hate the All American hero story. The values on some people have changed and not for the better and that is why movies like American Sniper don't win awards very often. In the box office they are huge hits but the crowd in Hollywood can't stand them. While a non-christian the Christian Bale Moses story was the warped and twisted Hollywood version on an Old Testament tale.
I am seriously thinking of trying something myself after playing with UnReal 4 engine - an animated film instead of a game. It has all the tools you should need to tell some of the stories I would like to see.
Red Nails - Robert E. Howard (a Conan story)
Legend - David Gemmel (a Druss story)
A few others that would be awesome to frame right out of the book.
(apart from watchmen which i thought was well done even sans squid, especially the extended version that had the comic book scenes included.)
I've read Starship Troopers many times, as I have most of Heinlein's books and I think that people look at Starship Troopers and see way more than there is in there regarding the author. After all , this is the same guy that wrote Stranger in a Strange Land. He was complex writer who could write from many points of view but never forgot that he was a product of his time. He believed in personal integrity, self sufficiency to the point of mania and honor. You see these traits in almost every book he wrote, his 50's juveniles all the way through The Cat Who Walked Through walls and Job: A comedy of Justice.
Starship Troopers is not about a military state. It is in fact a republic democracy with one huge difference, the only people who can vote or hold office are those who serve a term in the military. The theory is that those who are willing to risk their own lives for society have a better understanding of exactly what they are willing to do and that they understand what they are asking of the military. To me, this is a book, that has more in common with Plato's Republic than a jingoistic propaganda piece.
Many people die in the course of the book, but it might not seem that way because there is essentially only one character that matters to us, Rico. The other characters are for the most part fellow soldiers and soldiers die. You may miss them but the focus is on staying alive, helping the living and fighting the enemy. It focuses on life in the military, the way Heinlein thinks it should be, but is actually more interested in the philosophy of military service. There is discussion about exactly why does one person agree to be in harm's way for people who can't understand them and essentially think they are suckers? That is until they need someone to defend them. It also discusses how loyalty in the unit works, chain of command and why soldiers sometimes obey orders they know are bad ones. All in all, people who dismiss it as mere jingoism probably think WWI was a little dustup in France.
Regarding the war, in the book, it is very clearly analogous to WWII, which Heinlein served in. There are other battles that are mentioned, but we only see the one Rico participates in. The War starts with a a sucker punch and is followed by Earth getting to it's feet, following initial missteps, eventually starts fighting, island by island...er, I mean planet by planet until the book ends right before the invasion of the home isl..planet of the bugs.
The movie had none of these qualities and was disappointing to me. Even as a satire of fascism it was a failure. Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game does a much better job of this, showing the consequences of this kind of war than this awful, awful movie does.
They made the honor and duty part a mockery.
Now see, I didn't take that away from the movie. In fact, what I took away from it, having NOT read the book, was that though Rico entered the military for the wrong reasons initially, honour and duty very much became the overriding reason for his remaining. There was an element of revenge there of course, but by the end of the movie, you could clearly see that honour and duty were the glue holding the squad together.
Now see, I didn't take that away from the movie. In fact, what I took away from it, having NOT read the book, was that though Rico entered the military for the wrong reasons initially, honour and duty very much became the overriding reason for his remaining. There was an element of revenge there of course, but by the end of the movie, you could clearly see that honour and duty were the glue holding the squad together.
Now see, I didn't take that away from the movie. In fact, what I took away from it, having NOT read the book, was that though Rico entered the military for the wrong reasons initially, honour and duty very much became the overriding reason for his remaining. There was an element of revenge there of course, but by the end of the movie, you could clearly see that honour and duty were the glue holding the squad together.
In the book he joined, really to impress a girl he stood no chance with and then because his father opposed it so much, out of pure stubbornness. You can see this as he cannot articulate why this is important to him or why he is doing it. But eventually, as you suggest, he discovered what it really meant to him and the others who served and he also understands why he stuck it out.
One thing that many who call it fascist or jingoist seem to miss is that it is entirely voluntary to join. There is no draft, and if you wash out, that's it. The one thing you can't do is desert. Even in the war, they only accepted volunteers. Of course, after Rio got hit, they had plenty of volunteers.
One of the interesting aspects of the book is that it is told in first person, but as a recollection. So while there are events that first person Rico doesn't quite get at the time, recollected Rico does and helps explain what we are seeing.
There is a bit where he is given administrative punishment, which is actually much worse than it sounds. Basically, it's lashes, at a post. But recollected Rico explains that it's kind of a compliment. Usually anybody who does something bad enough for that kind of punishment washes out and can never re-enlist. administrative punishment is basically saying you pancaked up bad, but we stil think you would make a good soldier.
As I noted, it is subjective, but one cannot argue the fact that standards for movies/TV/music/entertainment have gone way, way down in the past 20 years.
I think it was harder to choose a winner (at least to me) between movies/songs years ago than today. Today's entertainment lacks intellect.
Here's an example:
Pink Floyd's lyrics:
"And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but its sinking. Racing around to come up behind you again. The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older. Shorter of breath and one day closer to death. Every year is getting shorter; never seem to find the time. Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines."
Lyrics from a recent Rihanna song:
He want that cake, cake,
Cake, cake, cake, cake, cake
Cake, cake, cake, cake, cake
Cake, cake, cake
Ooh baby, I like it
You so excited
Don't try to hide it
I'mma make you my bitch
Cake, cake, cake, cake
Cake, cake, cake, cake
Cake, cake, cake, cake
Cake, cake, cake
She sells millions of records, so it must mean it's good, right? >.>
The same could be applied to today's movies.
As someone who has acquired a Film degree, it's painfully obvious to see certain tropes repeated over and over in (especially big budget) movies today.
Again, personal opinion.
I get a feeling alot of people forget what Jingoism is to though, it's generally a view that not only should a nation be the best(nationalist) but also use military force on everything, everywhere, regardless of the situation. It's a very extreme form of nationalism in that brute force is the be-all-end-all, when in reality it isn't and misuse of military force can cause far more problems than solve problems just as anything can.
I've read Starship Troopers many times, as I have most of Heinlein's books and I think that people look at Starship Troopers and see way more than there is in there regarding the author. After all , this is the same guy that wrote Stranger in a Strange Land. He was complex writer who could write from many points of view but never forgot that he was a product of his time. He believed in personal integrity, self sufficiency to the point of mania and honor. You see these traits in almost every book he wrote, his 50's juveniles all the way through The Cat Who Walked Through walls and Job: A comedy of Justice.
Starship Troopers is not about a military state. It is in fact a republic democracy with one huge difference, the only people who can vote or hold office are those who serve a term in the military. The theory is that those who are willing to risk their own lives for society have a better understanding of exactly what they are willing to do and that they understand what they are asking of the military. To me, this is a book, that has more in common with Plato's Republic than a jingoistic propaganda piece.
Many people die in the course of the book, but it might not seem that way because there is essentially only one character that matters to us, Rico. The other characters are for the most part fellow soldiers and soldiers die. You may miss them but the focus is on staying alive, helping the living and fighting the enemy. It focuses on life in the military, the way Heinlein thinks it should be, but is actually more interested in the philosophy of military service. There is discussion about exactly why does one person agree to be in harm's way for people who can't understand them and essentially think they are suckers? That is until they need someone to defend them. It also discusses how loyalty in the unit works, chain of command and why soldiers sometimes obey orders they know are bad ones. All in all, people who dismiss it as mere jingoism probably think WWI was a little dustup in France.
Regarding the war, in the book, it is very clearly analogous to WWII, which Heinlein served in. There are other battles that are mentioned, but we only see the one Rico participates in. The War starts with a a sucker punch and is followed by Earth getting to it's feet, following initial missteps, eventually starts fighting, island by island...er, I mean planet by planet until the book ends right before the invasion of the home isl..planet of the bugs.
The movie had none of these qualities and was disappointing to me. Even as a satire of fascism it was a failure. Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game does a much better job of this, showing the consequences of this kind of war than this awful, awful movie does.
I would highly recommend it.I liked how it wasnt just serving in the military. they would find something for you to do if you were willing to work, not just combat arms. I wouldnt mind seeing universal service(zero deferments) covering everything form military to building new roads and schools/hospitals etc. use it to ensure that everyone has job skills of some type.
He said it much better than I did. Starship Troopers is how I think government should be handled. If you have not been in the position to put even your existence on the line - you lack a comprehension of what your peoples lives mean. It is not pro-military or even pro-America because Rico is Brazilian (Pan American) and yet the story shows both the hatred of the silliness of the military at times and the glory and courage of the common soldier rising up to meet the threat.
It could have been the US vs Japan/Germany/Italy or humans vs bugs. Same conflict and the story is done a terrible disservice by the movie. They made the honor and duty part a mockery.
I was impressed by how faithful it was to the source material, with the notable large exception at the end (well, and the omission of the Tales of the Black Freighter, but I admit I never really liked that anyway). There were several scenes that looked straight out of the graphic novel, evoking specific panels even.
I would have still preferred the squid, as an unknown alien threat makes for a better rally cry than a force that the governments all know they have zero chance against IMO. But other than that I thought it was an excellent adaptation.
Very often in the military it starts as serving your country and ends up you are serving to help protect your friends who are there with you.
If you read the book American Sniper it really does come through that way - the movie Lone Survivor also shows it. You start out with one intention in the end you find what is really important - your family often your military family becomes closer than your blood one.
Now see, I didn't take that away from the movie. In fact, what I took away from it, having NOT read the book, was that though Rico entered the military for the wrong reasons initially, honour and duty very much became the overriding reason for his remaining. There was an element of revenge there of course, but by the end of the movie, you could clearly see that honour and duty were the glue holding the squad together.
Here's the lyrics of a song from Bill Withers (one that reached #3 on the Billboard Top 100), back in 1971:
"I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know" (The song this lyric comes from also features non-standard English and a double negative in its title)
And here's the lyrics of a #1 song from 1976, by no less a personage than Sir Paul McCartney:
"I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you"
Some artists like Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin went out of their way to make their lyrics flowery and poetic, so comparing their most poetic songs to the least-creative songwriters of today is just not a fair comparison.
That was the only sore spot for me, it really should have been the giant psionic alien squid!
Otherwise I really loved the movie and how loyal it was to the rest of the story.
you can follow his writing style and see how it changes depending on which wife he was currently married to. none of the styles were bad, just distinctly different. look at the publishing date and consider his views on women in the military and what they were at the time. He was an interesting person.
Sorry, but you can't convince me that standards haven't dropped.
I think technology has changed things in a way where its a lot easier - for good and bad - for more people to reach larger audiences. As a result, you do get more homogenization of music, and in fact all art. But I don't think that's a question of standards being dropped, or the overall quality of art dropping. I think there is about the same number of good artists today as yesterday. I think its easier for lesser artists to become more popular, and for more of them to find success. But I don't think that's necessarily bad. Those same forces also make it a lot easier for smaller reach artists who a century ago would have never found an audience to find one. Its just that you have to look harder to find them, away from the center of mainstream distribution channels.
I think it is fitting and proper to be proud of your country but it should always be tempered by an understanding that you are not alone on this planet and trampling over others to preserve profit margins for large corporations can lead to huge problems. Plenty of examples of this historical and recent.
Oh, what would I give for a single person in the world to understand even ONE point I ever made...
Whatever, I'm used to it by now. I could name at least one hundred other artists of today that are exactly the same. What did the "I know" end up as? Was there a point to it? Did he actually know something? Oh yeah... It was that when she was away, life wasn't worth living or that the house wasn't a "home" when she was gone. Sir Paul McCartney's message was to convey a love to someone.
Rihanna's song? Ummm... Is there a deep meaning behind wanting the p***y?
Sorry, but you can't convince me that standards haven't dropped.
I could go back further.
"Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti" - and that song IS about sex, nothing more.
You should have stopped off in the 70s and grabbed "A horse with no name."
There were plants and birds and rocks and things...
Indeed.
You should have stopped off in the 70s and grabbed "A horse with no name."
There were plants and birds and rocks and things...
Indeed.
I'd rather listen to 70's music than 99% of the absolute dross that gets released these days...
I'd rather listen to 70's music than 99% of the absolute dross that gets released these days...
Did we seriously have a page or three of discussion on Starship Troopers? ???Well my preferred version was done by RiffTrax Live! - it was hilarious. ;)
Did we seriously have a page or three of discussion on Starship Troopers? ???
You missed out the "and get off my lawn"
Doom.
Now that was a fun game. :D
Not a very good movie, though. Even with Hercules and Judge Dredd in it.
That is exactly my view of things, in that one can be a patriot without going so far as to believe "might makes right". To me patriotism in america isn't just believing in the country just because you were born here or believing ideals it was founded on and whatnot but both. The country was founded as a republic eventually to both keep the colonies united but also allow for everything to eventually develop towards the society we are familiar with today.I can go even further back...
Using the military "As a hammer" and treating every problem "As a nail" kind of makes us little different than everyone the forefathers were leaving behind so long ago and, to me, it steps us backwards.
I went into the chandlers shop some candles for to buy,
I looked 'round the chandlers shop but no on did I spy
I was disappointed so some angry words I said
When I heard the sound of a (thump thump thump) up above my head
Traditional
If the end of minority report was happy i read it completely wrong.
(well, and the omission of the Tales of the Black Freighter, but I admit I never really liked that anyway)
Sorry, but you can't convince me that standards haven't dropped.
You can easily see this when you look at art and popular culture from the 20's and 30's. Only the cream is still well known.
Of course, then there's transcendentally bad, like Leonard Part 6 (a movie so bad I find people rarely mention it among lists of worst movies ever, because hysterical blindness blocks all memory of the movie).
You missed out the "and get off my lawn"
I mostly like my entertainment entertaining. I'm more opposed to incompetently stupid than deliberately stupid. Sharknado is deliberately stupid. Superman III is incompetently stupid.
Of course, then there's transcendentally bad, like Leonard Part 6 (a movie so bad I find people rarely mention it among lists of worst movies ever, because hysterical blindness blocks all memory of the movie).
I am pretty sure "Plan 9 From Outer Space" ranks up there. Cardboard tombstones, Paper plates set on fire as flying saucers. Not to forget the changes from night to day without any explanation. An actor with a black cape covering his face for the duration of most of the movie because actor Bela Lugosi died six weeks after they starting filming. Along with that horrible sci-fi Richard Thomas movie "Battle Beyond The Stars." Flying, talking Snail ships, Sybil Danning as a space valkyrie, John Saxon as a laughable villain who almost gets choked to death by an alien's transplanted arm. I kid you not. LOL
"But I was going to live forever. I want to live forever!" *BOOOOOM* as villains giant spaceship explodes
I liked the film score to Battle Beyond The Stars. But we get to hear it many times in James Horner's other scores, many many times.
They are heavens forbid - ENTERTAINING!
I don't always want a message, a depressing look into someone else's misery or to be preached at for being rich, happy or good looking (none of which apply - except happy).
Sometimes I want to see the Hulk ragdoll Loki. Sometimes I want to see Captain America stand up for what is right. Sometimes i want to see a small grumpy raccoon shoot stuff.
Sometimes.
If you want to go for worse movies ever, I've got one. Superman IV *shudder*
The JJ Abrams Star Trek movies are pretty terrible as well. Sure they are entertaining but the only thing star trek in them is the design appearance of the characters and ships.
All they are is action packed movies with no sustenance.
Here's to hoping he doesn't pancake on starwars as well.
Hey! You leave Battle Beyond the Stars alone! I wuvs the flying boobie ship!!
They were bad, yes; but they pale in comparison to the horror that is Superman IV. That movie is Highlander 2 bad.
I am pretty sure "Plan 9 From Outer Space" ranks up there. Cardboard tombstones, Paper plates set on fire as flying saucers. Not to forget the changes from night to day without any explanation. An actor with a black cape covering his face for the duration of most of the movie because actor Bela Lugosi died six weeks after they starting filming.
The JJ Abrams Star Trek movies are pretty terrible as well. Sure they are entertaining but the only thing star trek in them is the design appearance of the characters and ships.
All they are is action packed movies with no sustenance.
I'm less critical of the Abrams Star Trek movies. While I can understand the specific objection of the lack of "Star Trekishness" to them, that's a failing of a large number of Star Trek movies. Of the previous movies, I'd say grading strictly on the "Trekishness" of the movie the first Abrams movie is similar to that of Wrath of Khan or Undiscovered Country, say. Into Darkness is very low on that scale, but I would say its not lower than Star Trek Nemesis which most agree was not a good Trek movie but doesn't get nearly the same level of accusation that doesn't even belong among the others.
In many ways, the Abrams movies are a lot like First Contact. Most agree its entertaining, but most would probably also agree its a major departure from the tone and even character of the TNG series its based on. And yet the acceptance level of the two movies among a specific segment of the fans is almost completely opposite.
Still, at least we didn't see that f*****g engine room in the second one. The only problem with THAT one is that they took probably the BEST of the original Trek movies, the one loved most by ALL the fans, and ruined it.
I thought the movie was entertaining enough, in a don't think about it, kinda way, until the new Spock called the old Spock on the super-duper interstellar skype to get the down-low on what this khan fella was all about... Stopped the movie dead in its tracks, that did.Well, they had to work in some sort of reason for Leonard Nimoy's cameo.
Except, the second movie was NOT a remake of Wrath of Khan. It was a remake of Space Seed.
The one that is most like the original series is probably my least favorite, Star Trek The Motion Picture.
I would rank Battlefield Earth up there in the top something list of incompetent horibad movies.Tastes vary. It was about twenty years ago that i read the novel and i thought it mediocre at best. It was an uninspired pastiche of far better pulp scifi novels. This was based on having read quite a few scifi stories from the 1930s onward.
The book was great, if a bit long at 1050 pages. the movie (only half of the book) was just... *shudders*
I feel sorry for the actors that were in the movie.
And yet.. Supergirl was WORSE..
Except, the second movie was NOT a remake of Wrath of Khan. It was a remake of Space Seed.
Don't worry, most people make that same mistake.
I thought the movie was entertaining enough, in a don't think about it, kinda way, until the new Spock called the old Spock on the super-duper interstellar skype to get the down-low on what this khan fella was all about... Stopped the movie dead in its tracks, that did.
I would rank Battlefield Earth up there in the top something list of incompetent horibad movies.I thought the book was the worst juvenile novel masquerading as a pulp adventure I've ever bothered to finish. Seriously, the Psychlos' supremacy is based on no one in the entire Galaxy being smart enough to defeat their 60's-era Programmable Read-Only Memory "security" until the cavemen who hadn't heard of electricity a week previously decrypted it with their
The book was great, if a bit long at 1050 pages. the movie (only half of the book) was just... *shudders*
I feel sorry for the actors that were in the movie.
I rank them Superman II, Superman, Supergirl, ..., Superman III, big space to fill in with movies you don't like, Superman IV.They were bad, yes; but they pale in comparison to the horror that is Superman IV. That movie is Highlander 2 bad.And yet.. Supergirl was WORSE..
Except, the second movie was NOT a remake of Wrath of Khan. It was a remake of Space Seed.
Except for the dialogue that they ripped directly from Wrath of Khan.
What pisses me off most is that it could have been a much better movie if it had been an original plot without trying so hard to shoehorn all the references where they didn't really fit.
Plus I did get a chuckle out of how he reminded nu Spock that he promised to never give him information that could alter his destiny, that it is his path to walk. Then says "That being said, Khan Noonian Singh is the most dangerous foe the Enterprise ever faced!"
Also his response when asked if they defeated Khan "At great cost, yes."
At great cost......talk about a massive understatement.
I'm reminded here about what I said about Watchmen earlier. Defeating Khan was pretty costly, but if you think about it if Khan hadn't tried to kill Kirk, who knows where Kirk and crew would have been when the alien probe came to Earth. It was very fortunate that Kirk was on his way to Earth when the probe arrived - close enough to intervene but not actually at Earth and disabled, also fortunate that Spock recognized the whale songs which might have been more probable given his recent re-education, and also fortunate they were traveling in a ship they could retrofit into an aquarium to transport the whales back to Earth. Khan's story doesn't end with the death of Spock, or the destruction of the Enterprise; it never ends.
There was no Superman IV... (or at least I believe that I have a mental block that doesnt allow me to actually acknowledge it.. or that I actually watched i)It was the one about nuclear something something where he fights the guy that looks vaguely like the Sentry.
I happened to like the JJ Abrams Star Trek Movies, at first I was peeved that they broke continuity, but I don't mind having a second parallel story line, as long as any future TV series (hopefully) remain loyal to the original continuity. . .
I happened to like the JJ Abrams Star Trek Movies, at first I was peeved that they broke continuity, but I don't mind having a second parallel story line, as long as any future TV series (hopefully) remain loyal to the original continuity. . .
Sadly, continuity and canon are not to be found in Star Trek. By design. Gene was never constrained by it and never recognized it.
I happened to like the JJ Abrams Star Trek Movies, at first I was peeved that they broke continuity, but I don't mind having a second parallel story line, as long as any future TV series (hopefully) remain loyal to the original continuity. . .
monitor and study Picard to make sure Locutus is indeed gone. I would also have telepaths scan his mind for any traces of Borg technology secrets that the Federation could use.
I imagine section 31 did this or it would of been written into a future episode as some flashback.Ah, yes. Section 31. I've always regarded them as the true heroes of the Federation. They're the ones who actually dare to get the behind-the-scenes dirty business done that is necessary for the Federation to continue to actually exist. The Feds are just too over-civilized for their own good. The innocent Eloi can only frolic freely while the Morlocks take care of the ugly necessities out of their sight.
BOOBIESHIP!
(https://i.imgur.com/oIq5pgK.jpg)
Oh god... I won't be able to resist watching all of DS9 again much longer. I really want to see another star trek show like it someday. It had the perfect mix of everything all the other shows had and instead of the usual 2 part episodes it started the much needed long story arcs that were also present in voyager and enterprise. Along with the greatest space and ground war so far to hit the star trek universe.
STO sorta continues some of what happened with Cardassia and Bajor but I hope to one day see a series pick up where that left off.
Also, that ship looks more like the uterus to me than boobs.
I never saw into darkness - did they get rid of that pesky black hole in our solar system that wound up causing no problems whatsoever?
This unfortunately never happens. It's like they choose to dump the old universe for a newer one in most cases.While it isn't a television series, Star Trek Online is I believe technically considered canonical as far as CBS is concerned, and presumes the original timeline continued on after Spock created the new one inhabited by the Abrams movies.
While it isn't a television series, Star Trek Online is I believe technically considered canonical as far as CBS is concerned, and presumes the original timeline continued on after Spock created the new one inhabited by the Abrams movies.
Since that particular black hole only had the mass of the Narata, it wouldn't cause any gravitational problems for the solar system unless you were right next to it. And then a few hours later it would have detonated due to Hawking evaporation and disappeared. In fact, we have to invoke a little bit of technobabble to even explain why it was a problem for the Enterprise;
Correct. STO is now the official holder of Trek Canonicity.
Outside of the lightning in a bottle original series...
....DS9 is the true jewel in the Star Trek crown. (Much as I liked STNG...)
Odo and the Founders rocked. And Next Gen had nothing to touch the Dominion war. A diverse cast of characters that bled 'chemistry...' a series which must have written itself.
I remember critics previewing the series saying, 'How many stories can you get out of a space station before you run dry?'
The answer was a master class in Sci-fi writing and series development. A fitting encapsulation, fleshing out and exploration of all things 'Star Trek.' 'Canon'? This is as close as it will get.
(As for the dirty under belly of Star Fleet? Meh. Right up there with the CIA.)
Azrael.
Yikes. They just lost 18 people from Cryptic in layoffs the other day, including their community manager, and also Matt Miller who was laid off too.
I wonder if there's a certain holding company for a certain game that might look to hire Matt to work on their revived game...
Yikes. They just lost 18 people from Cryptic in layoffs the other day, including their community manager, and also Matt Miller who was laid off too.
If something like that is all that remained to sufficiently prove their ability to do what they say they can do, then hiring Matt could not happen quickly enough! Of course, they could already be past that point for all we know, but since we don't know much....oh you see where I am going with this! ;)What? Are you saying that there might be an NDA in place making it so that we have little to no information to go on so we can make various unsubstantiated claims that bear no (or very little) resemblance to the truth? Or, more likely, cause us to go off on tangents totally unrelated to the original post of the thread? :P
What? Are you saying that there might be an NDA in place making it so that we have little to no information to go on so we can make various unsubstantiated claims that bear no (or very little) resemblance to the truth? Or, more likely, cause us to go off on tangents totally unrelated to the original post of the thread? :P
NSA...Yesterday upon the stair,
No Such Agreement ;)
While it isn't a television series, Star Trek Online is I believe technically considered canonical as far as CBS is concerned, and presumes the original timeline continued on after Spock created the new one inhabited by the Abrams movies.
I wonder if there's a certain holding company for a certain game that might look to hire Matt to work on their revived game...
Now comes the question: when the next Trek movie comes out, will they say that Spock Prime died on New Vulcan, or will they say that he used the Guardian of Forever to return to his proper timeline?
Outside of the lightning in a bottle original series...
....DS9 is the true jewel in the Star Trek crown. (Much as I liked STNG...)
Odo and the Founders rocked. And Next Gen had nothing to touch the Dominion war. A diverse cast of characters that bled 'chemistry...' a series which must have written itself.
I remember critics previewing the series saying, 'How many stories can you get out of a space station before you run dry?'
The answer was a master class in Sci-fi writing and series development. A fitting encapsulation, fleshing out and exploration of all things 'Star Trek.' 'Canon'? This is as close as it will get.
(As for the dirty under belly of Star Fleet? Meh. Right up there with the CIA.)
Azrael.
If something like that is all that remained to sufficiently prove their ability to do what they say they can do, then hiring Matt could not happen quickly enough! Of course, they could already be past that point for all we know, but since we don't know much....oh you see where I am going with this! ;)
If the rumours I heard at the time are true, and I don't know if they are or not, but if they are, they must absolutely NOT hire Matt until any deal is signed, sealed and delivered!
Aye. Be shrewd. Get the deal done.
Azrael.
If the rumours I heard at the time are true, and I don't know if they are or not, but if they are, they must absolutely NOT hire Matt until any deal is signed, sealed and delivered!
Now comes the question: when the next Trek movie comes out, will they say that Spock Prime died on New Vulcan, or will they say that he used the Guardian of Forever to return to his proper timeline?
I don't see anyone hiring on any devs formerly from Paragon Studios, unless they're willing to volunteer their help which I seriously doubt. The i23 CoX zombie rez is a server image only, without the tools that would be needed to update or patch it, and I'd imagine a now-10+ year old game (that will never be updated besides) isn't exactly going to be raking in millions a year; its crew is likely going to have volunteer or near-volunteer pay status.
In fact, the idea for APR mainly came about because the original CoX can never be continued or added to, and may eventually lose all compatibility with modern OSs and hardware. And as APR, much like City of Titans, is a completely volunteer crew and is likely to stay that way til darned near launch, I don't see anyone from Paragon Studios being able to be paid (much less anywhere near the money they got back at Paragon) to work on it.
Indeed. However, it cannot be denied that someone like Posi would be -very- useful in getting that image running again...
I somewhat disagree - if you had a central Dev controlling things and you were using volunteers to help with the work you could do some things.
You could approach a college and offer to have their students to program an actual game finishing say Issue 24 or writing the tools and things needed to expand the server image. It is all just code. What has been done before can be done again and in fact improved upon. I don't know the costs of running the reopened game - nor how they expect to pay for it all. If they could afford a lead Dev to oversee volunteers - that might be a great opportunity.
Now comes the question: when the next Trek movie comes out, will they say that Spock Prime died on New Vulcan, or will they say that he used the Guardian of Forever to return to his proper timeline?Unlikely... He would not leave without fixing the timeline... I think I can smell USS Relativity in our future... Let be honest this whole debacle is right up their ally.
We all serve the founders here!Heck there is episodes where you don't even see the station. The Dominion war was AWESOME. TNG and TOS were SO slow. Hence why my favorite series was voyager, DS9 and Enterprise. In that order. I actually fell asleep during TOS and TNG they got so dull at times. Haters can hate away but I don't see how you could tell me TOS and TNG were more exiting than the other 3. Voyager and Enterprise in particular had the best balance of exploration, action and character development...
The funny thing is most people don't watch ds9 long enough to know that the show does contain many many episodes that don't take place on the space station.
I was speaking specifically about Matt Miller, who I am sure at this point in his life would need to be able to make a living first, and if he had time/opportunity, could contribute to something like this. That is what I thought would be pretty long odds on happening. However, if they can assemble an able crew from hungry young programmers, just chomping at the bit to prove what they can do, more power to them!
If there was a kickstarter "to finish Issue 24 with Positron" after the IP purchase I would sign up in a heartbeat.
Outside of the lightning in a bottle original series...
....DS9 is the true jewel in the Star Trek crown. (Much as I liked STNG...)
Odo and the Founders rocked. And Next Gen had nothing to touch the Dominion war. A diverse cast of characters that bled 'chemistry...' a series which must have written itself.
I remember critics previewing the series saying, 'How many stories can you get out of a space station before you run dry?'
The answer was a master class in Sci-fi writing and series development. A fitting encapsulation, fleshing out and exploration of all things 'Star Trek.' 'Canon'? This is as close as it will get.
(As for the dirty under belly of Star Fleet? Meh. Right up there with the CIA.)
Azrael.
Don't forget - if the game can show a profit, then there may be room to hire a Dev.
Don't forget - if the game can show a profit, then there may be room to hire a Dev.
I can guarantee that the day this thing comes back online, I will be contributing to their bottom line!
Here in this forum, I think everyone else can be counted on likewise, but we were pretty much a given, and we won't be enough to ensure profitability. I am not sure what kind of publicity they are planning, especially when they would need to spend those advertising dollars before they have made a dime off of the game, but they have to get the word out as far, and wide as possible to attract a large enough player base to give themselves a chance.
The upside is that, this day and age with advent of Twitter, Facebook, etc., you can get a lot of free advertising if you work them right. Perhaps that is the stepping stone they need to utilize to get the initial player base established, so they can then afford to do some paid advertising to increase it further.
Just musing about stuff like this makes me want to play so badly!
I'm betting that an announcement of CoX's resurrection would be news significant enough to get a lot of free advertising on various game-related websites. Plus a lot of us are going to tell every single person we know that's interested in gaming.
I agree that the resurrection of City of Heroes should make a newsworthy event on the MMORPG news sites. That should get people interested in playing the game that never played it before and it would help alert the veteran players that do not monitor this site for news.
Probably true. My concern about new players is that they will have to deal with something returning players already know. That being, the state of the in-game graphics, which are admittedly....a bit behind the times. Especially when compared to a lot of what is out there. Let's face it, for some that is the end all be all of their gaming experience. If it ain't pretty enough, it's a non-starter.
Those of us that love the game, love it because of the things it does that still stand out as unique in all the MMORPG world. We don't care that the graphics are not Unreal 4 level (yet). The youngsters might take one look at those non articulated hands and run screaming! ;-)
Tastes vary. It was about twenty years ago that i read the novel and i thought it mediocre at best. It was an uninspired pastiche of far better pulp scifi novels. This was based on having read quite a few scifi stories from the 1930s onward.
To be fair i should go back and reread it some day to make sure it's not because i've conflated it since then with some of the dozens of tepid novels Hubbard wrote postmortem and the vicious nuttery of the scam he started.
I wonder if there's a certain holding company for a certain game that might look to hire Matt to work on their revived game...From my point of view that would not be a bad thing. . .
Probably true. My concern about new players is that they will have to deal with something returning players already know. That being, the state of the in-game graphics, which are admittedly....a bit behind the times. Especially when compared to a lot of what is out there. Let's face it, for some that is the end all be all of their gaming experience. If it ain't pretty enough, it's a non-starter.
Those of us that love the game, love it because of the things it does that still stand out as unique in all the MMORPG world. We don't care that the graphics are not Unreal 4 level (yet). The youngsters might take one look at those non articulated hands and run screaming! ;-)
While the backgrounds and buildings may look a bit behind the times, the characters and powers still look fine. While great graphics do help, the fun factor is what keeps a game going.
Showed my friends kids the original Wolfenstein 3D and they were appalled at the graphics, yet once they started playing it they started to enjoy it. Then I installed Duke Nukem 3D onto their PC and they had a blast.
When total biscuit says that the earlier shooters were especially fun, he wasn't joking. The overall cleverness of them just never gets old compared to so many modern games.
Just not Jack Emmert
You will get no argument from me about the quality of older games. I have an account at Good Old Games (GoG.com), and have over a dozen of the old LucasArts games. Some of them can't do any better than 640x480 resolution, but they are made to work flawlessly on modern operating systems, and they still play great! For anywhere between 5 and 10 dollars (US), they are cheap to own as well.
I wouldn't worry about that. Jack loves ideas and new shiny things. He would wish it well from a distance at best (much like many of the in-game avatar toting developers).don't forget after launch he would blame the gamers for the failure of the game. (hinthint champions online.) Then would start deving on a new game no one asked for.
I wouldn't worry about that. Jack loves ideas and new shiny things. He would wish it well from a distance at best (much like many of the in-game avatar toting developers).
He's an alitist. Always moving on. :D
Honestly, I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find that most of the COX devs lack anything like the passion we had for the game and would have little interest to coming back to it.
I'm hoping we hear something on the 27th April ;) Whether it be yes we have the game purchased or talks are still on going, even if it is bad news I'd hope to hear something on this day.
What's so special about that day in particular? Your birthday or something?
I'm betting that an announcement of CoX's resurrection would be news significant enough to get a lot of free advertising on various game-related websites. Plus a lot of us are going to tell every single person we know that's interested in gaming.
I already told everyone I work with. That their going to play City of Heroes and if they don't. I'm going to make their life a living hell. :P
I think the best advertisement is what my friend did to get me to play. He had me watch him play (He knew I was a farmer, so I saw high level content), once he saw I was interested. He handed me my own copy he bought. Said try it, you have nothing to lose.
That's what got me hooked, imagining all these different power combinations and how they'd work in a farming environment. Then as I got better, I'd ask myself, can a elec/storm defender farm? I'd level one up and try.
The game launched on the 28th.
Someone should tell wikipedia then because they say the 27th. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes)
They might be saying that because of 'midnight release' or early access stuff. But the official launch was the 28th.
Another good thing they would have going for them to make an annoucement on this date if it was good news, is that the A:AoU is released on the 23rd April so the news would hit within the first week of release, when most attention is about Superheroes and such!
Just my thoughts...
They might be saying that because of 'midnight release' or early access stuff. But the official launch was the 28th.
P. S. Although really, I'd consider the game's launch date April 25, since that is when the head start began and the servers were publicly accessible for the first time to people who weren't specifically invited by the devs earlier.
I considered 4/25 the start, but why split hairs? Aw, almost 11 years.4/20 you say?
Ironwolf, any news? I understand about the NDA but just hoping.
Also, it's my sense (and I could be wrong) that we will not be getting our previous accounts back. Does that include just the toons or the vet rewards as well?
Ok, I'm done with my irritating wild questions and speculation.
Also, it's my sense (and I could be wrong) that we will not be getting our previous accounts back. Does that include just the toons or the vet rewards as well?
Also, it's my sense (and I could be wrong) that we will not be getting our previous accounts back. Does that include just the toons or the vet rewards as well?
I had kind of mentally written off that possibility a while back. If it were possible, it would take longer to get the game running again, and honestly I don't mind starting over too much if it makes it easier, and less complicated to get it up and running.
I'm beginning to wonder if this goes on much longer, if it will even be relevant. If any of CoT, Vanguard, etc are off the ground, will there even be enough of the player base left to make it worth it to even restart the game?
Its not a question of being faster or slower, and more a question of whether NCSoft actually kept the data or not, and whether they'd be willing to give it to anyone else as part of an IP purchase. The impression I get is the answer to both questions is no.
Hypothetically speaking, the new server operators could give the players anything they wanted to. The problem is they would have to trust the players were giving them accurate information about what they previously had. That probably opens a can of worms no one would want to open.
I'm beginning to wonder if this goes on much longer, if it will even be relevant. If any of CoT, Vanguard, etc are off the ground, will there even be enough of the player base left to make it worth it to even restart the game?Aren't all the "spiritual successors" in pre Alpha phase at best? I wouldn't worry yet about CoH being irrelevant.
Note: I will definitely try a rebooted CoH, but if any of the newer games meet my needs, not sure I'd want to split my time.
Aren't all the "spiritual successors" in pre Alpha phase at best? I wouldn't worry yet about CoH being irrelevant.
Aren't all the "spiritual successors" in pre Alpha phase at best? I wouldn't worry yet about CoH being irrelevant.
that depends on just how slow the negotiations take. in a year from now I expect to see a lot more out of vo and cot. the second either of those goes live with a viable game the value of coh ip drops like a rock. part of what makes coh ip worth anything is peoples willingness to pay to play the i23 maint. without that it is just an old story that people do "do you remember" stories
If CoH came back tomorrow I don't think i'd play anything else, to tell the truth I don't play anything at the moment due to me being spoilt with CoH, I've tried lot's of different games but nothing has ever caught my attention long enough as CoH. I'm on Icon & Mids most evenings when time allows to mess with builds and costumes and generally have a fly around the zones, which bring back so many good memories. :'(
I'd hope to one day see CoT become something as good as CoH, but only time will tell on that front.
*Keeping fingers crossed for the return, holding torch high*
If CoH came back tomorrow I don't think i'd play anything else, to tell the truth I don't play anything at the moment due to me being spoilt with CoH, I've tried lot's of different games but nothing has ever caught my attention long enough as CoH. I'm on Icon & Mids most evenings when time allows to mess with builds and costumes and generally have a fly around the zones, which bring back so many good memories. :'(
I'd hope to one day see CoT become something as good as CoH, but only time will tell on that front.
*Keeping fingers crossed for the return, holding torch high*
I was holding out hope that the comeback would at least be announced by my birthday in mid-March. So, now that has come and gone with no indication that an announcement is imminent. I know it was an unsubstantiated hope. Nobody said anything to lead me to believe that day was anything special in the world of CoH, but I was hoping for some magical convergence that would happen because it was my special day. I was wrong....damn you universe! *shakes fist at the heavens* ;) :o
If it makes you feel better, I'm sure an announcement will happen on someone's birthday. I'm just not quite sure whose birthday. But that's just details.The odds are very in some unknown persons favor ;)
If it makes you feel better, I'm sure an announcement will happen on someone's birthday. I'm just not quite sure whose birthday. But that's just details.
If it makes you feel better, I'm sure an announcement will happen on someone's birthday. I'm just not quite sure whose birthday. But that's just details.
What I really want in CO is another zone like Vibora Bay and tons of freaking content to do. No level cap increases just more content and possibly some new powersets. Vibora Bay was fun but didn't have nearly enough to do in it.Too bad that will never happen in co, due to how much deving and respect cryptic/pwe has for that game.
BTW anyone know what's up with Valiance Online? The website has been a blank page now for a week or more.
edit: Oh found out myself for those curious - https://valianceonline.wordpress.com/
Too bad that will never happen in co, due to how much deving and respect cryptic/pwe has for that game.
I have been playing the secret world, once in awhile Sto, and I went back to tor. All of these games maybe minus secret world I will/would drop in a heart beat if tomorrow from the team they said "they got the game back". The reason for tor is I need to keep my mmo play style sharp :).
I do not know about Vo, I do last month after the wipe I could not make a new account to login to the alpha.
they seem to have disappeared for a while. i was checking every day but I have cut back
The last thing they did recently was upping the prices of existing costume sets. Before that they allowed people to purchase an account-wide unlock for the global cap if they were silver. Currently they are just, well, doing little other than absolute necessary bug fixes. I don't think they really work full time on the game but only on the game once in a while, and probably don't fully care to do so anymore. Not with the kind of community thats left anymore.Me thinks he (previous poster(s)) were talking about Valiance Online and their recent website issues and not STO.
I've been playing diablo 3 again, on my old demon hunter after I got a season wizard to 70 for the sake of some transmog(costume) unlocks. I notice the drop rates had increased alot, as I got three maurader set pieces today in a short time span to my surprise. A shame that two of those drops were pieces I already had from previous play sessions. At least that game gets stuff. Course i'd be playing city of heroes far more than diablo 3 if it came back. I'd take a guarantee drop system like CoX's incarnate system over an rng within an rng within another rng system diablo 3 has.
I do not know about Vo, I do last month after the wipe I could not make a new account to login to the alpha.
they seem to have disappeared for a while. i was checking every day but I have cut back
Me thinks he (previous poster(s)) were talking about Valiance Online and their recent website issues and not STO.
I thought they were talking about CO for a moment considering who he'd replied to and what the person said. Perhaps I should have clarified there.For my clarification, I was referring to co and VO at the end. So you are right Alex.
And Maurader's carapace #3 drops. I hate the RNG sometimes, give me boots already D3!
I could certainly use the lottery winnings to remodel my car.
I'd love to celebrate by beating baddies black and blue in brickstown...or any other zone in CoH.
My dream the other night was a bit odd, I won the lotto, the game was announced as returning, then some greedy criminals mortally wounded me in an effort to get my winnings and a kind professor saved me by transferring my mind into a cyborg body and I arose as a new version of the Eight Man.
My dream the other night was a bit odd, I won the lotto, the game was announced as returning, then some greedy criminals mortally wounded me in an effort to get my winnings and a kind professor saved me by transferring my mind into a cyborg body and I arose as a new version of the Eight Man.shortly after the staff power-set came out, I made a guy hat used a pool cue. He called himself The Eight Ball. I never did much with him though.
shortly after the staff power-set came out, I made a guy hat used a pool cue. He called himself The Eight Ball. I never did much with him though.
shortly after the staff power-set came out, I made a guy hat used a pool cue. He called himself The Eight Ball. I never did much with him though.
Now that is a character I would have liked to have seen.I didn't see that many, actually. However, my brother made a guy in a business suit outfit with a staff. His "Hero Name" was Corporate Staff.
Perhaps one day......
Also, how many Gambit clones did you see after the Staff set was brought into the game?
Well, that's what tends to happen when you're behind The Eight Ball.There was a "behind the eight ball" thing in his battlecry. His outfit was combat boots, jeans and a T-shirt (all black) with an 8 on his chest.
My dream the other night was a bit odd, I won the lotto, the game was announced as returning, then some greedy criminals mortally wounded me in an effort to get my winnings and a kind professor saved me by transferring my mind into a cyborg body and I arose as a new version of the Eight Man.
Hey waitaminute... :o
(https://i.imgur.com/oBFi5r0.png)(https://i.imgur.com/2ovG0ex.png)
(Cyberman 8 was my main on Virtue Server. ;D)
Now that is a nice variation of the Eight Man. I've identified all the costume pieces except the gloves which ones did you use?
Thanks! :DAh, of course! I just finished building that suit in my ICON, then saved about 4 variations of it, all with different chest number to avoid potential troubles when the game returns. Tech sleek gloves and boots look good with that setup too.
And it was the "Justice" gloves. Just the basic version without the extra plate.
Got to say, of all the cyborg characters in pop culture:
I'd rather be the Eight Man then any of the others.
still sure about that?Pretty sure that's a robot, not a cyborg (as is X-51 and Astro Boy). If it was actually a cybernetic daggit, that would have been actually kinda horrifying. Particularly the ears.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=thechristiannerd.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F05%2Fmuffit1.jpg)
still sure about that?
Pretty sure that's a robot, not a cyborg (as is X-51 and Astro Boy). If it was actually a cybernetic daggit, that would have been actually kinda horrifying. Particularly the ears.
i was fooled by how realistic the puppet fur was.
also +10 nerd points for x-51 and astro boy. i had resisted the impulse to point out x-51 wasn't a cyborg but you pulled off the trifecta.
Ah, of course! I just finished building that suit in my ICON, then saved about 4 variations of it, all with different chest number to avoid potential troubles when the game returns. Tech sleek gloves and boots look good with that setup too.
Got to say, of all the cyborg characters in pop culture:
Eight Man
Cyborg 009
Bionic Man
Robocop
X-51/Machine Man
Astro Boy
ROM, Spaceknight
and others I can't think of at the moment, I'd rather be the Eight Man then any of the others.
Deathlok, yeah gotta love how agents of shield took an already meh character and took away his one interesting feature (i.e. the timeline repairing).
we also missed lady deathstrike and cable (sort of) and donald pierce and raza and oh hell every third marvel character is a cyborg.
Deathlok, yeah gotta love how agents of shield took an already meh character and took away his one interesting feature (i.e. the timeline repairing).
we also missed lady deathstrike and cable (sort of) and donald pierce and raza and oh hell every third marvel character is a cyborg.
sadly agents of shield cant use Cable because he's a mutant and fox owns the mutants.
Yeah, I keep hoping that will change, but they seem to do well enough with the X-Men movies to hold on it it. At least Sony has gotten to the point where they are at least willing to "rent out" Spider Man.
Did he want emo carnage?
Deathlok, yeah gotta love how agents of shield took an already meh character and took away his one interesting feature (i.e. the timeline repairing).
we also missed lady deathstrike and cable (sort of) and donald pierce and raza and oh hell every third marvel character is a cyborg.
However, if Agents of Shield is consistent about anything, it is their desire not to give you the whole enchilada at the same time. If they just trotted out DeathLok with ALL of his currently known abilities, we would not have the enjoyment of see how he gets them in this telling. Pretty much the same for all the "supers" they show here. They start with the basics, and grow towards what we know.
For the Marvel Cinematic universe, Marvel has pretty well established that they are borrowing from the comics, but not 100% beholden to them. In fact, Marvel has officially designated the MCU as Earth-199999 within the greater Marvel multiverse, which means by definition it is not identical to the current reality of most of the Marvel mainstream comics. It is, in a manner of speaking, a Marvel Elseworld.
Separate from that, there's been like, what, five Deathloks? Not all of them have had similar backstories and abilities.
The big problem with this idea now is that Marvel is doing its own Crisis event...so what happens to the universes portrayed in animated series (current ones, the past ones wouldn't matter) and the MCU?
She-Hulk realizes she is just a comic book character.
Deadpool breaks the fouthwall whenever it suits him.
Impossible Man is really Mister Mxyzptlk thus messing with those two universes.
Comic retconning makes it possible to keep comics current with the culture.
So it would be unsurprising if Marvel or DC said any of variation of a universe didn't exist for the convenience of a particular story.
So its possible Marvel could construct a story in which they effectively state that the MCU continuity is an unreachable reality relative to the comic book one, but they would never likely state it did not exist in any form because that's a narrative statement they would never have to make and can do nothing good for the company.
For the record I was not suggesting that they would or should do this, simply that it seemed to be a corner they were backing themselves into.
Carol Danvers goes from being Ms. Marvel to Captain Marvel as Marvel hasn't got the courage to actually revive Captain Mar-Vell
How? As far as I understand it (I haven't been following everything) the basic idea is that the main Marvel comics universe (i.e. Earth 616) merges with the Ultimates universe creating an amalgam universe that is a combination of the two plus bits and pieces of other interesting dimensions. Nothing I've read so far explicitly states that the effects of Secret Wars affects all Marvel dimensions. Even if anything stated that, Marvel has played fast and loose with what gets included and not included in the main Marvel Multiverse: even something that affected all of the Marvel Multiverse isn't necessarily canonically affecting all of existence itself. In fact, the Marvel Multiverse canonically acknowledged the existence of the DC Multiverse in the amalgam comics which means in canon Marvel acknowledges that there are cosmic levels of existence outside the Marvel multiverse. They have plenty of narrative wiggle room no matter what happens in Secret Wars to assert that those events do not affect the MCU or other Marvel realities unless they specifically mention them.
revive him again, you mean.
So yeah, they seem to enjoy reviving and killing him again, they don't have the guts to bring him back for good given how he initially died.
I wouldn't exactly put it that way. It takes no courage to bring a major comic book character back from the dead, given how many times it happens. It does take some editorial courage to keep them dead, because it happens so less often. They still want to tell stories about the character every so often, but all of them seem to at least partially narratively rely on the fact that he is dead in a permanent kind of way rare to comic book characters.
Captain Marvel's death is interesting because unusually the story of his death is not the story just of his body ceasing to live, but about how his spirit itself moves on. That he transcended his physical death is now considered the defining element of his character. That's why bringing him back permanently is in some respects impossible. Not because its impossible to pen the words, but because any Captain Marvel that came back permanently wouldn't be the same Captain Marvel because of that fact. It would be like making a Batman whose parents lived: its not impossible to write the story, but it wouldn't and couldn't be the same Batman.
For some definition of "exists." In fact all of your examples point not to alternate universes *not* existing, but to them *actually existing* in unusual and/or unscientific ways. In each of those cases Marvel writers wanted us to believe alternate universes from the one depicted in the story actually exist for the purposes of narrative context but don't necessarily exist for the purposes of affecting the story except where explicitly noted.
So its possible Marvel could construct a story in which they effectively state that the MCU continuity is an unreachable reality relative to the comic book one, but they would never likely state it did not exist in any form because that's a narrative statement they would never have to make and can do nothing good for the company.
Isn't Noh-varr still hanging around somewhere? I lost track of him after dark reign. I'd bet if they were going to do a Captain after Carol they'd make it him unless there was a big clamor for Mar-vell to come back.
Marvel has at least one universe that do not exist within it's canon. Earth-0, the universe in which Taa existed, died in a heat death creating a new universe that we occupy. (Not interested enough to look up any other existing 'non-existing' universes in Marvel's properties)
Retconning is the bread and butter of comic book genre. Arching over the last 70 years or so it has been used to back out of bad story telling. Consequence of writing a serial, especially one that spans such a long period.
From Marvel's own wikia:Clarification of terms "multiverse," "megaverse," and "Omniverse"
Multiverse refers to a group of related realities, usually those sharing the same high-ranking cosmic entities (Eternity for example).
Megaverse refers to a larger group of realities, usually including partial and whole multiverses, which may be considered in some way "closer" to one another, thus making travel between them somewhat easier than between realities not within the same megaverse.
Omniverse is EVERY reality, including those published by other companies.
More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe#ixzz3XXfBOsMw
What I'm finding hard to understand is can't NCSoft see the potential of bringing back or letting another company bring back (Some profits from this deal) CoH.
After finshing Daredevil last night, catching up with Arrow, Flash and Marvels Agents of Shield, just watched the Batman Vs Superman leaked trailer, followed by Avengers:AoU and looking at the future Tv series and films coming out, this is the day an age of the Comic book films/TV series. The money being made from these is staggering, so why can't they see the potentail of bringing the game back, getting it advertised, because in my opinion it's the best or was the best Hero/Villain MMO out there, nothing came close.
There is so much potential for this game, with the improvements in graphics which have been shown by Irish Girl it is just so hard to see why a business wouldn't take this opportunity to make money.
Just me trying to understand!
Marvel has at least one universe that do not exist within it's canon. Earth-0, the universe in which Taa existed, died in a heat death creating a new universe that we occupy. (Not interested enough to look up any other existing 'non-existing' universes in Marvel's properties)
Retconning is the bread and butter of comic book genre. Arching over the last 70 years or so it has been used to back out of bad story telling. Consequence of writing a serial, especially one that spans such a long period.
Unfortunately - from where NCSoft sits - that type of epic 'swimming-in-a-pool-of-money' blockbuster gold that the superhero franchise sees in other forms of media didn't exactly translate with COH as well as NCSoft was hoping it would.
This is all very much my own opinion, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt - but I actually think this is a HUGE reason as to why NCSoft choose to pull the proverbial plug. I think they saw how ape$hit crazy their western market gets over any and all things super heroes...and I think this was why the bar was set so high in the sky for COH. And please don't get it twisted - I think COH was absolutely profitable. I'm just giving my own personal reason as to why NCSoft thought it wasn't profitable enough.
...Which is laaaaaame and is a VERY skewed way to analyze and measure your data success rate? BAH.
Well, maybe if they'd given it any marketing budget, it would have made even more money.
Of course, if rumors are to be believed, CoH itself was profitable, but Paragon Studios was not.
Oh, for sure. There was very little budget for promotional/marketing efforts of any kind lol. I would have LOVED to see more online/web ads as well as some :15 spots.
But that all costs money, honey.
I've always felt that our games community was one giant catch 22. One one hand we love talking about the community and how great people where relative to other games and how the CoH system didn't follow the great trifecta and how you can play how you want without other people (mostly) yelling at you. Then on the other hand people are always talking about how not enough money was ever spent on marketing and the game could have been so much bigger.
But in my eyes those two are mutually exclusive. If NCsoft had pulled in way more people we wouldn't have the community, it be much more wow-esque. Where TFLeader XxxWeedWizard420xxX doesn't take you because you are not an emp def or /kin etc.
I've always felt that our games community was one giant catch 22. One one hand we love talking about the community and how great people where relative to other games and how the CoH system didn't follow the great trifecta and how you can play how you want without other people (mostly) yelling at you. Then on the other hand people are always talking about how not enough money was ever spent on marketing and the game could have been so much bigger.
But in my eyes those two are mutually exclusive. If NCsoft had pulled in way more people we wouldn't have the community, it be much more wow-esque. Where TFLeader XxxWeedWizard420xxX doesn't take you because you are not an emp def or /kin etc.
I've always felt that our games community was one giant catch 22. One one hand we love talking about the community and how great people where relative to other games and how the CoH system didn't follow the great trifecta and how you can play how you want without other people (mostly) yelling at you. Then on the other hand people are always talking about how not enough money was ever spent on marketing and the game could have been so much bigger.
But in my eyes those two are mutually exclusive. If NCsoft had pulled in way more people we wouldn't have the community, it be much more wow-esque. Where TFLeader XxxWeedWizard420xxX doesn't take you because you are not an emp def or /kin etc.
But in my eyes those two are mutually exclusive. If NCsoft had pulled in way more people we wouldn't have the community, it be much more wow-esque. Where TFLeader XxxWeedWizard420xxX doesn't take you because you are not an emp def or /kin etc.
The community for the most part was awesome. But, as a speed boost-less /kin I got a fair amount of teammates who were confused/frustrated at no SB. Although to sort of make your point, that happened more when the game was younger and there were more people playing (visibly in Liberty).
Closer to the end no one really cared (although I never tried a master-TF)
The community for the most part was awesome. But, as a speed boost-less /kin I got a fair amount of teammates who were confused/frustrated at no SB. Although to sort of make your point, that happened more when the game was younger and there were more people playing (visibly in Liberty).
Closer to the end no one really cared (although I never tried a master-TF)
I'm kind of of the mindset of Ivanhedgehog above, if your skipping the critical powers of a set then your not going to be able to really contribute. For empathy it was fortitude and the RA's/clear mind and adrenaline boost(and I saw empaths without fortitude, and often also without any attacks as a defender or any control powers as a controller). Time manipulators should always have at least times juncture and farsight ect. Some sets skipping key powers were both crippling to the person who had it and to the team and it caused them to leech sadly.
If somebody doesn't need my help on their mission, that's fine -- I can find some evil that needs fighting. I just wish that Paragon's damn revolving-door justice system didn't put Frostfire right back on the street every time I brought him down! ;)They sort of left it up to the player to decide the fate of "defeated" enemies. Some liked to imagine that they were all teleported to the Zig. But because Frank Castle and Light Yagami are my personal crime-fighting paragons, I always insisted that anyone my characters "defeated" was 6 feet under. The best way to fight crime...exterminate the criminals. As such I really appreciated the newer missions where you would sometimes actually get a choice to flat-out kill someone. Not "arrest," not "defeat," not "beat up," just flat out kill. At last, a chance to get rid of someone who would not be taking advantage of a revolving-door justice system! I always wished we had more missions like that.
It really depends on your perspective and the point of playing the game. If you're "playing the game to win" because it's a GAME, then you care about the capabilities of the people you're playing with.
If you're undertaking missions IN ORDER TO FIGHT EVIL! then you recognize that those heroes who might join you only have those abilities that their individual stories and histories have allowed them to acquire.
If somebody doesn't need my help on their mission, that's fine -- I can find some evil that needs fighting. I just wish that Paragon's damn revolving-door justice system didn't put Frostfire right back on the street every time I brought him down! ;)
I just wish that Paragon's damn revolving-door justice system didn't put Frostfire right back on the street every time I brought him down! ;)
Why take a powerset if your going to skip it's key powers at all?
To be fair, he did go hero after a while. Guess he wanted to be on the winning team?
Could be a lack of awareness of "key" powers. There was a tale of an empath that only took the straight heals, and none of the good stuff. Given the general permeating view that "empath = healer," it could very well be that the player didn't even realize that the other stuff was good, since it wasn't a straight fit with the "healing" theme of the set.
I'll make another statement here:
Why take a powerset if your going to skip it's key powers at all? Why not take another powerset to reflect what you want to do better?
If it severely impairs my team for that kineticist to skip fulcrum shift, I'm sorry but I do have a game to win, I do play for fun, and indeed I have fun, but my fun is not to be gimping my team horribly. I could see a kin without speed boost or fulcrum shift if they are not a high enough level. But after the QoL patch that made speed boost hit everyone in the team in ONE cast, there is no excuse.
Not to mention said QoL improvement made it very very easy to do all kinds of other things that you are NOT pidgeon holed into being the speed boost guy nore did I really consider a Kin to be the speed boost guy. I considered kins to be the fulcrum shift damage amplifier that made everything die very very fast.
And to me, I do have shades of grey on it, but again some things I just won't put up with a badly made toon unless it's a retcon trial in which case yeah, I can see why they are doing it.
And no, I am NOT being a stop having fun guy. An SHFG would pass you up for not picking specific powersets, I don't mind if your a powerset I personally do not enjoy playing. But I do expect a person to not be ludicrously foolish with their power picks, I put up with that before and found said people to be horribly ineffective.
Look at things from my perspective: I want to have fun and losing repeatedly is NOT fun. Having people who are horribly ineffective greatly increases the chance of that. There are powers that, not taking them is just about as foolish as it gets.
It's called having a practical mindset. I'm being the realist, not the "Ok so I got a kin who has never taken fulcrum shift and speed boost. Ok I am good!" and then suffer "God dangit we are losing endlessly cause we got so many teammates who don't have any key powers in their powerserts". I had moments like that, mind you, losses due to a team leader picking people with terrible power picks. It's called being realistic and practical about the game, not theoretical and ineffective.
Within the group of players that I normally ran around with, there was one person that would get simulator sickness occasionally. Usually it happened in caves. She absolutely hated getting Speed Boosted because she couldn't control the character as well and the Simulator sickness symptoms tended to come upon her sooner when SB'd. So, the /kin controller I had did not have Speed Boost. I never got that character high enough in levels to acquire Fulcrum Shift, unfortunately. Now, I used Siphon Speed a a lot and would teleport her to the mission door, unless I had to spend my time siphoning the speed from the same hellion a dozen times because she kept using Recall Friend (before the power had the choice to be accepted) on me.
To be fair, he did go hero after a while. Guess he wanted to be on the winning team?
I always wondered about that in CoX. Are certain zones supposed to be in a certain time line? Example Faultine, RWZ, IP. In Faultine, it's the start of Fusion and Jim super hero career and you also meet Penelope Yin. Then go RWZ, you see them further in the career, and in IP Yin replaces Sister Psyche for the TF. You can go to IP and see the present "Penelope Yin", but travel to Faultline and see her younger version. Just probably an oversight, but I always found that interesting even in your heroes progression, you are around lvl 15-25 for Faultline zone where you meet Penelope Yin then in IP you meet her future self around 20-25, but for the Lady Grey TF at lvl 45-50, she is captured and is the younger version.
I'll make another statement here:
Why take a powerset if your going to skip it's key powers at all? Why not take another powerset to reflect what you want to do better? Like kineticism but hate speed boost and fulcrum shifting being a support toon? Take kinetic melee on a scrapper/brute/tanker/stalker instead. Want to challenge yourself? Rather than skip a critical power just up the difficulty.
Want to be fast as someone siphoning speed with said melee char? Take super reflexes to and the quickness power. Load up on the +recharge IOs when you get the chance and money for it. You'll never have to be the "speed boost bot" that you fear being.
There is a HUGE difference between being thematic to a point of being impractical and being effective and thematic. City of heroes made it very, very possible to be both practical and thematic at the same time, just think about what you really want to do with said character and the theme of said character.
Within the group of players that I normally ran around with, there was one person that would get simulator sickness occasionally. Usually it happened in caves. She absolutely hated getting Speed Boosted because she couldn't control the character as well and the Simulator sickness symptoms tended to come upon her sooner when SB'd. So, the /kin controller I had did not have Speed Boost. I never got that character high enough in levels to acquire Fulcrum Shift, unfortunately. Now, I used Siphon Speed a a lot and would teleport her to the mission door, unless I had to spend my time siphoning the speed from the same hellion a dozen times because she kept using Recall Friend (before the power had the choice to be accepted) on me.
its like a guy that joins the team but tells you he is nonviolent so his blaster cant use any attacks. he will just follow you and counsel the enemies you defeat. I dont think that would go well with many teams.
MMORPG players are equally as narrow minded in that extreme way. If healing vs resistance buffing vs defense buffing were presented, they only saw healing and then drew a conclusion "THATS THE ONLY WAY AND THATS FINAL!". Every "tactic" I see in mmorpg forums are built around a trinity and the terms they often have are about as primitive and backwards as a person who thinks warfare is entirely on sword fighting and surround tactics. You never see them use the term force multiplier. You never see them use the term flank(it's adds instead). Or reinforcements even(adds is used interchangeably for that).
Unfortunately - from where NCSoft sits - that type of epic 'swimming-in-a-pool-of-money' blockbuster gold that the superhero franchise sees in other forms of media didn't exactly translate with COH as well as NCSoft was hoping it would.
This is all very much my own opinion, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt - but I actually think this is a HUGE reason as to why NCSoft choose to pull the proverbial plug. I think they saw how ape$hit crazy their western market gets over any and all things super heroes...and I think this was why the bar was set so high in the sky for COH. And please don't get it twisted - I think COH was absolutely profitable. I'm just giving my own personal reason as to why NCSoft thought it wasn't profitable enough.
Something only old timers could have ever seen was that there used to be this thing where radiation defenders would lock their toggles on a mob in Perez, then fly around the entire park trying to herd literally everything, and then would announce (or sometimes not announce) that they were bringing them to a gate. Whereupon an entire zone of baddies debuffed to the floor would swarm a gate and literally turn into a shooting gallery.
Why take a powerset if your going to skip it's key powers at all? Why not take another powerset to reflect what you want to do better? Like kineticism but hate speed boost and fulcrum shifting being a support toon? Take kinetic melee on a scrapper/brute/tanker/stalker instead. Want to challenge yourself? Rather than skip a critical power just up the difficulty.
I frequently did builds using Dark Melee because I liked the fast fist-striking power sets -- used it to build most of my speedsters, but I used color customization to remove the "dark" elements and never took that netherworld tentacles thing or a couple of other powers in the set because they didn't fit the concept. But then I also never used AE because it wasn't "real". I suspect our play styles wouldn't be a good match for teaming.
My favorites:I recall, once, getting an IM asking if I could heal. I was playing my Dark/Dark Defender. My reply was, " I have a heal. " I wasn't invited to the team that the guy was building for some reason. I mean, with acc debuffs, you'd rarely need heals. But, I think, that was back in the times before it was understood just how awesome Defenders could be on a team.
Emps that only take heals and skip the buffs
Debuff sets that skip the -regen and -resist powers (the av melters)- Met alot of cold domination and traps users skipping those awesome debuff powers they had
Forcefield users that skip the two click bubbles and only use the toggle
Dark Miasma users that only use howling twilight to revive - it's like you're expecting your team to fail or something? Call me crazy but that aoe -regen is far more useful during a multipe boss or av fight.
Now I never kicked anyone for skipping powers unless I specifically broadcasted for a kin, empath or debuffer. In which case I would send them a tell asking them if they had another character with needed powers or I'd try to find another player to join us and keep them. But if someone say looking for a kin, a debuffer or a empath in broadcast / channel chat it only makes sense that they need the key powers.
I wouldn't run most taskforces without -regen debuffs or those av fights are next to near impossible to complete in a reasonable amount of time.
I recall, once, getting an IM asking if I could heal. I was playing my Dark/Dark Defender. My reply was, " I have a heal. " I wasn't invited to the team that the guy was building for some reason. I mean, with acc debuffs, you'd rarely need heals. But, I think, that was back in the times before it was understood just how awesome Defenders could be on a team.
'my single target regen debuff has a secondary heal effect' would have been a fine answer for either dark or kin ;D
there were a few cases where you needed a heal heavy set. places where you couldnt count on enemy targeted heals to hit. the heal heavy sets could do the trick.also,if you needed cm.I can't think of any cases off the top of my head unless you created an AE arc for it. A) The enemy targeted heals were bigger, B) The enemy targeted heals had an acc bonus, and C) The enemy targeted heals had debuff(s). Additionally, the enemy targeted heals came alongside some nasty buffs/debuffs. I would take a Dark or Kin (or pretty much anything) pretty much any day of the week over an Empath or PainDom who mainly focused on their heals.
I was running a rad/rad on an 8 hero team, and the leader told me to concentrate on heals and quit throwing that green stuff around...
I did what I was told for a few mobs...then he understood.
there were a few cases where you needed a heal heavy set. places where you couldnt count on enemy targeted heals to hit. the heal heavy sets could do the trick.also,if you needed cm.
I can't think of any cases off the top of my head unless you created an AE arc for it.
I can't think of any cases off the top of my head unless you created an AE arc for it. A) The enemy targeted heals were bigger, B) The enemy targeted heals had an acc bonus, and C) The enemy targeted heals had debuff(s). Additionally, the enemy targeted heals came alongside some nasty buffs/debuffs. I would take a Dark or Kin (or pretty much anything) pretty much any day of the week over an Empath or PainDom who mainly focused on their heals.
And I'm saying that as an Empath. My heals were not the biggest bang in my basket - my buffs were. If anything, my heals were *under*slotted...3 Golgies and call it good. My buffs were what kept my teams on their feet. They're the powers I slotted to the nines. They're the powers that my teams appreciated. ("Fort! Oh boy!" "Dos Auras! Oh boy!")
try getting an enemy targeted heal to hit on recluse in the STF when the towers are still up. good luck with that.
Here's a question for you all:
The defeat and achievement badges could not gain progress from AE missions, the premise for that was that people could setup custom farm missions and farm the appropriate targets to get the badge.
Yet we also gained the ability to set regular mission difficulty and spawn size, so someone could set a mission to -1 difficulty and 8 spawn size and farm it to achieve the desired badge.
So...does it matter whether it comes from a regular mission or an AE mission? We could customize mission difficulty and farm any old skull or troll mission for those badges or whatever defeat badge you were seeking, or custom build a mission in the AE to achieve the same thing? Either way it is farming for the badge
So once the game returns and changes can be made, should the AE be allowed to give progress on defeat/achievement badges?
Here's a question for you all:
The defeat and achievement badges could not gain progress from AE missions, the premise for that was that people could setup custom farm missions and farm the appropriate targets to get the badge.
Yet we also gained the ability to set regular mission difficulty and spawn size, so someone could set a mission to -1 difficulty and 8 spawn size and farm it to achieve the desired badge.
So...does it matter whether it comes from a regular mission or an AE mission? We could customize mission difficulty and farm any old skull or troll mission for those badges or whatever defeat badge you were seeking, or custom build a mission in the AE to achieve the same thing? Either way it is farming for the badge
So once the game returns and changes can be made, should the AE be allowed to give progress on defeat/achievement badges?
So once the game returns and changes can be made, should the AE be allowed to give progress on defeat/achievement badges?I have an answer you're not going to like:
I have an answer you're not going to like:I wouldn't really object to that - if the Ticket drop rate went up rather considerably. After all, it won't actually stop farmers - I am one (some of the time), and we'll find other ways to farm. If CoH was up and running again, and even if we had all the source code to make whatever changes we wanted, you still can't prevent farming. As the saying goes - you can't stop the game, all you can do is change the rules.
I don't think AE should have any link to the actual game at all. No XP, no inf, no kill credits, nothing. The only reward should be tickets, which you use to buy thinks to use in AE, and AE-related badges. That way the farmers go find something else to do, and their crap eventually disappears...and the stories remain, the things that the devs wanted to encourage in the first place.
I also think we should remove the rating system and replace it with thumbsup/thumbsdown. With enough ups, the devs would look it over and judge whether to turn on 'regular rewards' for it - like the Dev Choice stuff before - very exclusive, small number of really good arcs.
I wouldn't really object to that - if the Ticket drop rate went up rather considerably. After all, it won't actually stop farmers - I am one (some of the time), and we'll find other ways to farm. If CoH was up and running again, and even if we had all the source code to make whatever changes we wanted, you still can't prevent farming. As the saying goes - you can't stop the game, all you can do is change the rules.
I have an answer you're not going to like:
I don't think AE should have any link to the actual game at all. No XP, no inf, no kill credits, nothing. The only reward should be tickets, which you use to buy thinks to use in AE, and AE-related badges. That way the farmers go find something else to do, and their crap eventually disappears...and the stories remain, the things that the devs wanted to encourage in the first place.
I also think we should remove the rating system and replace it with thumbsup/thumbsdown. With enough ups, the devs would look it over and judge whether to turn on 'regular rewards' for it - like the Dev Choice stuff before - very exclusive, small number of really good arcs.
Or perhaps make it so each toon only gets XP and Infl once per each AE mission, so that running the same one over and over produces no reward.
Trivially exploitable: just keep publishing the same mission over and over, but under different names with trivial differences in content.Indeed. As a bit of a related trick, a friend of mine hid his best farming AE mishes by giving them garbled, nonsense names; they never showed up on anyone's keyword searches.
I have an answer you're not going to like:
I don't think AE should have any link to the actual game at all. No XP, no inf, no kill credits, nothing. The only reward should be tickets, which you use to buythinksthings to use in AE, and AE-related badges (not bought with tickets - earned as they were already). That way the farmers go find something else to do, and their crap eventually disappears...and the stories remain, the things that the devs wanted to encourage in the first place.
I also think we should remove the rating system and replace it with thumbsup/thumbsdown. With enough ups, the devs would look it over and judge whether to turn on 'regular rewards' for it - like the Dev Choice stuff before - very exclusive, small number of really good arcs.
[[EDIT: grammar and clarifications]]
try getting an enemy targeted heal to hit on recluse in the STF when the towers are still up. good luck with that.The easiest way to tank recluse in this phase is to just taunt him and hover up high in front the tower. Not the buff tower but the big tower that his headquarters. He'll try to get the taunter but wont be able to as he keeps falling and teleporting. ( he automatically teleports if you try to kite him away from the buff towers) Then just hit him with another taunt when he runs back to you so he doesnt unaggro.
The easiest way to tank recluse in this phase is to just taunt him and hover up high in front the tower. Not the buff tower but the big tower that his headquarters. He'll try to get the taunter but wont be able to as he keeps falling and teleporting. ( he automatically teleports if you try to kite him away from the buff towers) Then just hit him with another taunt when he runs back to you so he doesnt unaggro.
Im kinda surprised as I assumed most people knew this trick.
I have an answer you're not going to like:
I don't think AE should have any link to the actual game at all. No XP, no inf, no kill credits, nothing. The only reward should be tickets, which you use to buythinksthings to use in AE, and AE-related badges (not bought with tickets - earned as they were already). That way the farmers go find something else to do, and their crap eventually disappears...and the stories remain, the things that the devs wanted to encourage in the first place.
I also think we should remove the rating system and replace it with thumbsup/thumbsdown. With enough ups, the devs would look it over and judge whether to turn on 'regular rewards' for it - like the Dev Choice stuff before - very exclusive, small number of really good arcs.
[[EDIT: grammar and clarifications]]
I have an answer you're not going to like:
I don't think AE should have any link to the actual game at all. No XP, no inf, no kill credits, nothing. The only reward should be tickets, which you use to buy thinks things to use in AE, and AE-related badges (not bought with tickets - earned as they were already). That way the farmers go find something else to do, and their crap eventually disappears...and the stories remain, the things that the devs wanted to encourage in the first place.
I also think we should remove the rating system and replace it with thumbsup/thumbsdown. With enough ups, the devs would look it over and judge whether to turn on 'regular rewards' for it - like the Dev Choice stuff before - very exclusive, small number of really good arcs.
[[EDIT: grammar and clarifications]]
I feel the would send AE to the dustbin. the only people using it would be a few rp'ers. not a very good return for the development cost.
I feel the would send AE to the dustbin. the only people using it would be a few rp'ers. not a very good return for the development cost.
The system is (or was) already setup, so just leave it, but like what Agge said just take out all the reward in the system except tickets. For people using AE, I assume the reward would be making the mission and sharing it with people, not the actual reward of XP/Inf and for the few rp'ers (I am not a rp'er so I am assuming), that is reward enough for them.
is the amount of use(the return) enough for the expense(time to make the change)? add in the fact that you leave a prominent hole for any non rp'er using the game. the actual farmers werent that big a nuisance. I did not farm AE, but I feel that turning it into a ghost town wont help the game.
That could be said about anything in the game. Is PvP worth it to turn back on because it will have a small community. Is base making worth turning back on too?
I have an answer you're not going to like:
I have *the* answer, and generally almost nobody likes it. But the real problem with the AE from day one is the devs had the entirely wrong idea about what the AE was even supposed to be. They saw it as a way to allow players to write their own content. That's wrong for one simple reason: most players can't write content. By focusing on making things easy for *authors* they made the experience terrible for *consumers*. Really, most of the architectural complaints about the AE boil down to that one simple fact.
The focus of the AE should have been on *consumers* of the content, not the writers. Which is to say, for every decision about the AE, the question should have been whether it improves the experience for players playing the content. I once told the devs that a big mistake they made was believing 10,000 authors was a success. 50,000 authors is a failure, because there's no possible way 50,000 of our players were even literate, much less competent authors. Success, for the AE, should not have been 50,000 authors and few players liking the content. It should have been few authors and 50,000 players loving the content.
We should have been a lot harsher on authors. We should not have been crying about how unfair it was to authors. We were looking for a fair rating system for authors. As an AE author, I say screw the authors. What matters is that good AE missions survive and reach their audience, and everything else dies. If you want to publish a nonsensical grammatically random gibberish storm for yourself and your close friends to play, I was all for that - but with the catch that it was likely *no one* would ever find it unless they were explicitly searching for it. But if you actually wanted total strangers to play your work, it should have had to pass significant stress tests and reviews.
If you're primarily focused on the top 100, or 500, or even 1000 AE missions and arcs, questions like "what rewards should AE arcs have" and "how do we make a search system that works for players" start to become a lot simpler to answer. When you're talking about the 300,000 streams of consciousness that were actually in the AE, farming arcs were not actually the biggest problem. They were a symptom of the fact that people needed a reason to play AE content, and "for the rewards" isn't the only such reason people would, but it was the only reason they could easily satisfy. "For the stories" was an extremely difficult proposition for people not expert in finding things that qualified as stories.
The idea of dev-approved arcs having standard rewards was a good idea in theory, but because of the fact the AE generated more arcs in a day than the entire dev team could play in a week, it was impossible to execute on. And their hearts really were not in it, AND they were worried about being "fair" to authors, which once again is the cement shoes around the ankles of the AE. Be fair to the poor players that are going to be exposed to the content. For a business to be successful, it needs as many customers as possible, not as many employees as possible.
I actually had a lot of respect for Venture, bastard that he was about it, reviewing AE arcs with no concern for authors' feelings at all, and only looking at them from the perspective of the player that had to run them. Because that's what really matters: does it generate content that players actually want to run and enjoy running. Its ultimately the only thing that matters, and any AE author who disagrees in my opinion shouldn't be an author. Even I had trouble being that blunt, and to be honest I think that was a mistake on my part.
So this is what I would do if I was rebooting the AE and had enough resources to yada-yada-yada. First, anyone can make any arc they want, but that arc would have *no* rewards. They could play through it, or guide friends through it, and there would be no limitations on what you could do in these. You could even do things the devs originally banned for being exploitable, because exploits don't matter if there are no rewards. Fight Hamidon if you want, or spawn all the Praetorians at once. Test your build against pylons, or herd all of Creys Folly into a dumpster. No rewards, so nothing is off-limits. I'm sure there are players that would take advantage of that, rewards be damned. I would even create arena-like switches for those missions that would allow players to turn on and off certain effects, like travel suppression or the aggro cap (yes this requires a lot of code).
If you actually want your arc to have rewards, you'd have to submit it for approval. There would be two tiers. Tier 1 arcs would only award AE tickets and would have to meet certain well documented parameters. For example, some of those switches would be illegal in tier 1 arcs. We'd also run an automatic spell checker, and if you can't even be bothered to spell check, you get rejected. You'd have to show evidence you've put the requisite work into the arc to be deserving of any consideration at all. If the arc met the limits of most AE arcs, you'd get tier 1 certified quickly and your arc would award tickets. It would also be searchable as a tier 1 arc.
Tier 2 would be tricky. Unlike tier 1, it would reward standard rewards. And trickily, also unlike tier 1 it would have almost no limits. You could do things in Tier 2 you couldn't in tier 1. The catch is you'd have to submit the arc for special review. I would create a set of community reviewers pulled from volunteers with experience making tier 1 and tier 2 arcs, and they would be tasked with reviewing potential tier 2 arcs for problems, exploits, and quality of content. You'd need to have multiple approvals to be granted tier 2 certification, and you'd also be searchable as a tier 2 arc.
In all cases, people who tried to abuse the submission system in defiance of the guidelines would get warnings, then banned. Arc creation and publication (for tier 1 and 2) would be a revocable privilege.
On top of all that, I would create a curation system. Any player could create a curated AE list of their favorite or recommended missions, which players could see in-game. Good reviewers would tend to get more followers, which would increase the reach of their recommendations. "Softer" or less discriminating reviewers would tend to get less followers and less credibility. This would encourage honest reviewing, but open the door to many different perspectives to operate that honesty in. Someone that honestly likes a lot of combat but hates story could still be counted on to honestly review arcs with that perspective. Someone that honestly likes story more than combat could be counted on to honestly view arcs with that perspective. Different players with different perspectives but limited time to search around could gravitate to curators with similar sensibilities.
Not gonna happen, but that's what I think a consumer-focused AE system would look like.
I always wondered also if an player generated story was so good, they (the devs) would ever consider putting it in the game outside of AE with their own contact NPC.
That could be said about anything in the game. Is PvP worth it to turn back on because it will have a small community. Is base making worth turning back on too? I don't know the technical detail on how it works (if it is just "pulling some switches" or something more complicated), but the the system is already in place, if it doesn't need any or much maintenance to startup again, and not take away from activating the core game, I don't see why not having it in the game. Probably just me, but I know it would suck to be marginalized in the game because your play style is in the minority and for those who enjoyed AE, it feel wrong to discount them when the game comes back. Course this is just my opinion.
what i am trying to say is that the game will return with AE as it was, full xp etc. to make the change will take resources and leave a hole where there once was a popular content point. changing that would be equivalent to shutting off pvp IMO. not something good for a maintenance game attempting to regain players.
what i am trying to say is that the game will return with AE as it was, full xp etc. to make the change will take resources and leave a hole where there once was a popular content point. changing that would be equivalent to shutting off pvp IMO. not something good for a maintenance game attempting to regain players.No, removing rewards from AE would be equivalent to removing rewards from PVP.
No, removing rewards from AE would be equivalent to removing rewards from PVP.
I'm confused. From my take on the conversation, ivanhedgehog is saying to just keep the status quo of how AE was so you don't need to burn resources into making changes. Is that not the what was being discussed or was there something else?
In a manner of speaking, sort of. First, a side note: one of the big objections about the AE when it was being discussed was that if it had no rewards no one would play it. To me, that was always obviously false, for this reason: a significant percentage of players engaged in behavior with no rewards prior to the AE. PvP didn't really have much in the way of rewards: certainly not enough to be considered a legitimate reason to PvP. RP has no rewards. Bashing pylons to climb the DPS ladder has trivial rewards. Soloing AVs has pathetic rewards. Base building: no rewards. Costume contests: only if you win. Players did all sorts of things in City of Heroes that had little to no reward. AE rewards attracted a certain kind of player, but an AE will less or no rewards wouldn't attract no one. Just a different kind of player.
I mention this because another objection to the AE was directed at the rating system. It was thought that the ratings system would be a disaster because it would be a popularity contest. Popular players would get all the plays and unpopular or unknown ones would have no chance to catch them. There was some truth to this theory: I specifically tested it by publishing arcs under my primary account and a secondary account no one knew was connected to me. Arcanaville arcs did get more plays than the other. But the other did *get* plays, and did get attention.
But in another way, that theory was completely wrong**. During AE beta there were a lot of "names" making and testing arcs. I know that I got a lot of plays and attention simply because I was recognizable. However, the player that got the most attention, the most plays, and the most praise for their arcs wasn't me, not by a long shot, and it wasn't any of those other well-known players. It was feargas (technically feargas2). Before AE beta, few players had ever heard of him, but his writing spoke for itself. Even the devs were impressed: he had a knack of getting the most out of the limited tools we had to make arcs many, including some devs, felt were better than some of the actual content in the game.
My guess is that it would be complicated for the devs to simply lift an AE arc and put it into the standard content in the game. But in a sense, we know they felt there existed AE content at least as good as what they were writing, because the player known as feargas became the developer known as Dr. Aeon, based in large part on the strength of his AE writing.
** It didn't like to hear it, but "forum wisdom" was an oxymoron
One of the big problems with AE was getting people to see or try your content. I published only three or four missions, not farm mission, but missions that would have formed a story arc when completed. But in the end it was really wasted effort, the best mission (in my opinion) of the arc, only had two reviews and nobody outside my peer group ran it.
No I am not crying in my beer and claiming to be the great unsung author. (The truth is that I am probably the ONLY one who thought they were good.) But the saturation of farms, which is exactly what it seems that many players were looking for, prevented players who are trying to tell stories from getting proper exposure for their missions.
No, I don't know how to fix the problem, because in truth I used some of those leveling farms myself on occasion, but it would have been nice if there had been someone actually in charge or reviewing and rating AE content so that those worthy of exposure actually got out of the gate, rather than the few popular ones that got published early on.
When we get our game back, AE is certainly on the list of things that need fixed. Maybe, if we are lucky, Arcana will volunteer for that task, and she will take charge, kick ass, and give us what we need! (Hint hint hint)
I like your idea about AE Arcana.
I think a consumer based model for AE would be nice. I did farm AE.....a lot but I also did play some of the content because there was some amazing arcs out there.
When we get our game back, AE is certainly on the list of things that need fixed. Maybe, if we are lucky, Arcana will volunteer for that task, and she will take charge, kick ass, and give us what we need! (Hint hint hint)
I think I've said this before, but I'll say it again. In many ways, Farm missions in the AE were alot like anime mods on the nexus network. They were so excessively common that they overshadowed EVERYTHING else.
On the nexus network you had mods like trait/perk overhauls for new vegas(I use one currently), or gameplay overhauls for skyrim ect that just get completely overlooked due to the latest generic naked giant-boob anime girl mod. Or the latest boob physics mod ect. All the same it was hard to find good mission archs in architect entertainment because you had "Generic farm 1,7805". Or "Generic farm 1,7806". In many ways, I have more respect for the nexus mod community because at least they did have some variety even among the bad anime mods. But in this case it was horrendous, I mean what difference was there between AE farm missions other than the damage type you faced and how you ended it?
Not to mention it still took skill to make an anime mod. An AE farm took no skill to really make.
AE should be a tool for creativity I agree with everyone on that and fixing it so it was used as such should certainly be on a priority list when the game is finally back.
the problem of promoting story arcs could have been solved by asking the devs for a forum space for people to post the names of their story arcs and a short teaser. sub topics could have discussed any number of ae story topics. those that were interested could get the names of what they wanted easily. I tried a few stories but many were just another badly written monologue on someones background story. people that thought they were much better authors than they really were. when they didnt get instant acclaim they blamed farming missions for not letting others see their greatness. removing rewards will not get people to love your epic story arc. It will ensure that the only people that see your epic story arc are those trying to promote their own.
I don't think AE should have any link to the actual game at all. No XP, no inf, no kill credits, nothing. The only reward should be tickets, which you use to buythinksthings to use in AE, and AE-related badges (not bought with tickets - earned as they were already). That way the farmers go find something else to do, and their crap eventually disappears...and the stories remain, the things that the devs wanted to encourage in the first place.
The easiest way to tank recluse in this phase is to just taunt him and hover up high in front the tower. Not the buff tower but the big tower that his headquarters. He'll try to get the taunter but wont be able to as he keeps falling and teleporting. ( he automatically teleports if you try to kite him away from the buff towers) Then just hit him with another taunt when he runs back to you so he doesnt unaggro.
Im kinda surprised as I assumed most people knew this trick.
people that thought they were much better authors than they really were. when they didnt get instant acclaim they blamed farming missions for not letting others see their greatness.
Early on, it was possible for you to get up on the ledge on the front of the building, which put you at just the right height for Recluse to jump up after you, blow the jump, fall down, and keep repeating, leaving you able to taunt him each time he jumped, but the devs got wise to it and tweaked the barrier to move the ledge just outside the mission map limits.
Early on, it was possible for you to get up on the ledge on the front of the building, which put you at just the right height for Recluse to jump up after you, blow the jump, fall down, and keep repeating, leaving you able to taunt him each time he jumped, but the devs got wise to it and tweaked the barrier to move the ledge just outside the mission map limits.
Well, they didn't only blame farming, and there were those that had realistic expectations, but in a sense trying to write for others is a tricky proposition. You put yourself out there, and you make yourself vulnerable to the opinions of others. Its not easy to see criticism as something other than a personal attack. A lot of people can't do it. As I said before, not everyone should be authors.
When Mercedes Lackey read my Immortal Game story, I asked for her opinion. This was a project I had poured over a month of my time into, and over a week writing, and included a lot of my own ideas of CoH cosmology. While she liked it, she thought there were significant technical flaws in certain areas, some in areas I had focused significant attention to. And she was absolutely right. She would have been doing me no favors pulling punches. How many people get to have a professional writer give them even a few minutes of their time reading their work and suggesting ways to improve it.
Being able to take criticism, particularly from one's self, and use it to improve, is the hallmark of all good professional anythings, and extremely important for authors. If you couldn't take someone taking your prized work and sticking post-it notes over all of its flaws as they saw it, you were probably not going to be a good AE author.
the problem of promoting story arcs could have been solved by asking the devs for a forum space for people to post the names of their story arcs and a short teaser. sub topics could have discussed any number of ae story topics. those that were interested could get the names of what they wanted easily.
there was a whole section of the forums for that.
there was a whole section of the forums for that.
Doesn't matter what game it is. You always have someone wanting something nerfed or removed because they want to police the way others play.
Sometimes it was nice to have someone around that could farm you up if you felt like leveling something up quickly because you had an idea for a build for a hero.Exactly, as I've said before, I had a farmer friend on speed-dial for this as I paid him real-world money for this service (and loot that he earned by farming and marketeering). It's nice to know that for $100 or so, your hot new L50 can be totally tricked out - by this afternoon. That was nice.
I never had a problem with the farmers. There are all kinds of people in the world, and they all serve a purpose. Sometimes it was nice to have someone around that could farm you up if you felt like leveling something up quickly because you had an idea for a build for a hero. I didn't farm much, but I did do it during the last year of CoH's existence--for many reasons. One, I did it for the challenge, because I didn't use the usual Fire/Kin build for farming. I used a Warshade. Let me tell you, it's a heck of a lot more difficult to farm as efficiently with a Warshade as one can with a Fire/Kin. Two, it helped my friends achieve their own build ideas fairly quickly. And deleting that build idea for a different one wasn't as big of a deal when it didn't take you weeks and weeks to get to the top level. Three, because it was a much easier way for my friends to all jump in at whatever times they could and play together. Sometimes doing a task force was more trouble scheduling-wise for the people I hung out with than it was worth. "Ok, let's do a Quartermaster this Saturday".... *Saturday comes* "I've gotta finish this thing with my family"... "I didn't know I had such-and-such going on, but I'll be on later"... "I have to run my kids to practice...." etc., etc. One of us (whoever was on) could just run a farm, and when everyone else logged on, they'd see who was on already, and just head in to an already in-progress farm--rather than one person waiting for an unspecified amount of time just to do one task force.
I had a couple of good friends who farmed because they actually got some comfort out of doing something mindless outside of their normal extremely high-stress real life situations. Some people like watching a mindless action movie for the same reasons. Not because they want to actually "destroy the game"... Because sometimes something like that was cathartic for them.
I never got why there were so many "nerf/remove the farmers!" threads back in the day.
"Doesn't matter what game it is. You always have someone wanting something nerfed or removed because they want to police the way others play."
This^^^^^^We will need everyone back to keep the game going not just the people we like or agree with.
I will say this, the reason the various types of merits were introduced was so that inflation wasn't such a game-killer for people. If influence was truely the only form of currency in city of heroes, there would be no ladders of opportunity for newcomers other than getting lucky and luck would have been the be-all-end-all for how rich you were in city of heroes. Merits in value scaled with influence, value wise, because they couldn't be traded and had fixed prices.
If you needed 500 million influence, you could start saving up hero/villain merits across 4-5 toons and buy 4-5 100m recipes with those merits. If prices for those recipes had increased say 25% then those merits were 25% more valuable as you could simply sell those recipes at the increased cost.
I always wondered about that in CoX. Are certain zones supposed to be in a certain time line? Example Faultine, RWZ, IP. In Faultine, it's the start of Fusion and Jim super hero career and you also meet Penelope Yin. Then go RWZ, you see them further in the career, and in IP Yin replaces Sister Psyche for the TF. You can go to IP and see the present "Penelope Yin", but travel to Faultline and see her younger version. Just probably an oversight, but I always found that interesting even in your heroes progression, you are around lvl 15-25 for Faultline zone where you meet Penelope Yin then in IP you meet her future self around 20-25, but for the Lady Grey TF at lvl 45-50, she is captured and is the younger version.
there was an npc that could shut off speed boost for you.
Unai Kemen (jeez; it's May 2015 and I still remember the name of the contact?)
Say what you will but without tickets in AE I would have never been able to IO my toons.Even with tickets I only did maybe 10 out of whatever the cap was on how many toons we could have.I played for almost 5 years.I didn't have luck with drops or run mish over and over.I'm glad they had tickets,with rolls and salvage no longer costing more than I would ever make over years I could at last see what a build was like I that I read about (or close to it) was like.I played with pugs and a small group so having IO's build 1 and a SO's build 2 was nice.The IO builds could run almost by themselves but the second SO's build everyone in the team was needed.We were happy to have FF def and Emps or Def Debuffs but when only a few of us were on the IO builds let us finish whatever we ran in the time we had to play.
But tickets were getting you the IOs directly, I was talking about the influence problems caused by AE due to all that influence.
Honestly if AE gave only tickets but no influence I think we'd have been better off when it came to the auction house. Prices would have lowered significantly rather than rising to ludicrous levels because people got recipes from AE but not influence.
Why fix what isn't broken?
If you wanted to run a farming mission, you could do that. If you wanted to run one of @PW's cute stories, you could do that, too. If you wanted to take the time and browse through the index and try something completely different, you could do that.
I do understand that some people had a problem with folks who would farm to the point that their characters were level 50, and a couple hours earlier they were level 1 or 4, or whatever - and then the people behind those farmed characters wouldn't be able to fully live up to the expectations of other players, average or elite. Like a tank with 4 travel powers and no shields/armor/auras. It just doesn't make sense to the average player.
Ultimately, so what?!
We all had our people we preferred to team with. Some loved the challenge of trying to make PUGs work. Some would only team with SG members. That was the best thing. You didn't have to spend any time around those people whose style or manner of play went against your idea of how it should be done.
So, leave AE alone. It worked just fine.
But tickets were getting you the IOs directly, I was talking about the influence problems caused by AE due to all that influence.
Honestly if AE gave only tickets but no influence I think we'd have been better off when it came to the auction house. Prices would have lowered significantly rather than rising to ludicrous levels because people got recipes from AE but not influence.
AE wasnt generating any more inf than the same time played doing other things. so it didnt really make a difference. Increasing the drop rates of purple in the real world would have encouraged people to spend more time in the rest of the game and dropped the prices at the same time. they were high because for many, purples just didnt drop. some people got them on a daily basis and others went months without a drop. if you cant reasonable expect a drop of what you need, you have to grind the cash to buy it. the merits gave people a doable way of getting good stuff. it was a step in the right direction.
I'd be ok with that. The influence i got from farming AE to get my salvage was laughably negligible compared to what i could make in a fraction of the time marketeering. I usually had the inf to buy the salvage, i just refused on principle to pay the amount rare salvage was going for when i could get it so easily in ae.
You have clearly never seen some of the worst farms out there. The sheer influence made was insanity at the worst times and when the exploits were in full force you had HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF INFLUENCE IN MINUTES. But even with the fixes it was very easy to just get dozens of guys and melt them in seconds, the other farms you still had to run from group to group or try to gather them all up and that took time, the AE farms that time was eliminated and hugely increased the speed at which influence could be gained.
When you consider how much influence you got vs the "drop rate" from tickets, there was a huge inflation issue there.
I don't think any exploit in the AE specifically allowed hundreds of millions of inf in a timespan of minutes that managed to escape beta. Millions per minute is I think about as high as it would go per player.
Also, for every player willing to spend that much time earning influence in the AE, there were probably lots of others that probably earn the same amount of influence in a lot less time through market activities. I know I could. And many activities that also count as "farming" have significant influence sinks associated with them. For example, if you were farming enhancements or PvPIOs, you generally needed somewhere to store them. The best place was base storage - lots and lots of base storage. I had four bases literally as full as possible with stuff, with a fifth being worked on at shutdown. Between functionality and silly cosmetics, its possible I converted thirty billion inf or more into prestige just to accommodate all that base building alone.
Its not entirely clear to me that the net sum of all activities that could be described as "farming" were a huge influence generator. There were a lot of very large influence sinks in the game as well in the top of the food chain. In fact, there was a natural negative feedback loop where influence farmers were willing to spend more on stuff, so stuff-farmers farmed and sold more of it to satisfy demand, which is an influence-destroying process (due to the cut the markets took off the top). The more influence that was in circulation, the less attractive influence farming appeared relative to other methods of getting rich (marketeering being the obvious choice since its relatively simple, takes no special set up, can be performed on any alt, and requires far less effort than AE farming).
Genuine runaway inflation should have pushed all reasonably valuable items up to near the market inf cap (2 billion). Not only did that never happen, it never even got close. "Peak purple" if you could call it that for the most expensive purples topped out around 500 million then dropped, probably due to the very effect mentioned above: those prices shifted incentive from farming for the influence to buy them to farming for the enhancements themselves to sell. Given the range of prices, I have often wondered if the markets were sending a soft-signal that the statistical value of those very valuable purples was somewhere between about 100 million and 500 million inf - that the relative effort required to earn that much inf was comparable to the amount of effort required to farm enough drops to get one of the higher value ones (at least at that time, before alternate means of acquiring them or substitutes appeared).
I was referring to the overall total amounts of influence entering the market was obscene. I recall getting 5-6 million influence in a span of a few minutes in an 8 man team. When you had dozens of teams doing this you had way to much influence entering the market all at once. People were buying things at whatever price they saw cause they could "just get more influence". But I still saw people farm AE specifically for the influence/experience rates they provided, cause it also let them get tons and tons more prestige. And it was still far faster in my experience than the normal farms(in the few moments I did anyhow).
Yeah let's not forget that CoH had the gold standard for MMO
Yeah let's not forget that CoH had the gold standard for MMO economies. Even the most casual player could purple/pvp a toon or 10 to the nines if they were just willing to learn how the market worked and spend a few minutes on it whenever they logged in. Barring that if they were patient enough they could do it with the various merit types. Plus all the best stuff was available in-game through normal play. No having to drop real money for random rolls hoping for the one shiny that was worth the big bucks. So sure, there was a lot of money out there and the sinks were limited, but in general the economy worked amazingly.
I was referring to the overall total amounts of influence entering the market was obscene. I recall getting 5-6 million influence in a span of a few minutes in an 8 man team. When you had dozens of teams doing this you had way to much influence entering the market all at once. People were buying things at whatever price they saw cause they could "just get more influence". But I still saw people farm AE specifically for the influence/experience rates they provided, cause it also let them get tons and tons more prestige. And it was still far faster in my experience than the normal farms(in the few moments I did anyhow).
I know some of us are hanging on by the finger nails, some taking everything in there stride, but with the City of Heroes Anniversary (2004) coming up next week (Not saying a date as there are mixed views on the release date ;) )
I was wondering what the odds would be for any news on the purchase or comeback of CoH, ToHit next week... I can't express how much I miss the game, a day doesn't go by without something triggering a memory of something in the game, or thinking that could be a good idea for a name, what powers could I pick to go with the name!
Here's hoping the team are successful and we have our City & Isles back soon.
AE wasnt generating any more inf than the same time played doing other things. so it didnt really make a difference. Increasing the drop rates of purple in the real world would have encouraged people to spend more time in the rest of the game and dropped the prices at the same time. they were high because for many, purples just didnt drop. some people got them on a daily basis and others went months without a drop. if you cant reasonable expect a drop of what you need, you have to grind the cash to buy it. the merits gave people a doable way of getting good stuff. it was a step in the right direction.I think I managed to acquire about 7 or 8 Purple IOs from drops through out the entire time I played the game. I could even use one of them too.
I think I managed to acquire about 7 or 8 Purple IOs from drops through out the entire time I played the game. I could even use one of them too.
Wouldn't that be so great?
Personally, I wouldn't bet your paycheck on it though. Just the fact that there are a few peeps on the forums here who know the code and server architecture as well as the devs did, and yet have not been asked for the slightest bit of help in getting anything going (a fact they have stated here on these boards recently), should tell you that there is still nothing to get going.
Sorry, I haven't completely given up hope either, but after a year and a half since the start of the efforts, I'm way past holding my breath for a positive result *ever,* never mind right around the corner.
amazingly the game has been gone for two years and people and still going back and forth over AE.. The reality of the situation is that you could didnt need 2 billion influence to make a character.
There were multiple ways including farming and AE tickets to get what you wanted or needed. I did it all the time.. AE ticket rolls. Merit Rolls.. Hero/Villain Merits.. Buying things outright with Merits... Keep what you want.. sell the rest.. make influence.. I did it all..
Personally I could care less if someone else abused AE to get to level 50 in a few hours and walked out with millions of influence..
One thing I found out about the auction house was that I rarely had to pay top dollar for something.. I would often bid what I was willing to pay and just wait.. Keep playing the game having fun..and eventually I will win a bid or sell my items..
Indeed, I did what you did all the time, bought and sold, reward merits, AE tickets, etc. to get what I needed. Plus after studying some of my L50 builds in MIDS and setting mids to show IO's at L49 instead of 50 and checking the minor changes in states like defense and recovery, I then equipped all future characters with L49 IO vs L50 since they were only half the inf needed.
Is it bad that, the most entertaining thing in life at the moment is cyanide and happiness shorts and web comics while waiting for CoH to return?
Indeed, I did what you did all the time, bought and sold, reward merits, AE tickets, etc. to get what I needed. Plus after studying some of my L50 builds in MIDS and setting mids to show IO's at L49 instead of 50 and checking the minor changes in states like defense and recovery, I then equipped all future characters with L49 IO vs L50 since they were only half the inf needed.
I usually made my level 50 builds based around level 35-38 in case I exemped down
It disturbs me to see this thread fall behind. . .
Speak up folks, I demand it!
Uhh....what....what am I supposed to talk about!?
QUICK RANDOM OFF TOPIC SUPERHERO STUFF!
WONDERFUL ONE OH ONE!
Bacon Ice Cream!!!
Bacon Icecream supermax supreme sundae!
Never did understand the reasoning for disabling level 50 IO effects when exemping down.
Why should I be gimped just because I'm helping someone out?
Hopefully none of the successor projects do something this unreasonable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHPn5d7wRtk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHPn5d7wRtk
Come now. The topic on everyone's mind, other than CoH, should be The Avengers: Age of Ultron. playing in two days. At a theater near you.
Interesting bit of news I wonder if this would be possible with CoH!
http://massivelyop.net/2015/04/29/everquest-emulator-group-gets-a-written-agreement-with-daybreak/ (http://massivelyop.net/2015/04/29/everquest-emulator-group-gets-a-written-agreement-with-daybreak/)
Actually the topic on my mind is Batman vs Superman!!!
Also, what do people think of Suicide Squads Joker?
Keen, or not Keen?
They've never budged on Infinite Rasa, or given out the rights to Auto Assault, CoX, or any of their other shuttered IPs.
I never played Tabula Rasa, but from what I understand Infinite Rasa is actually back in development.
https://www.everquest.com/news/project-1999-daybreak
Irish_Girl, I just ran across this on Facebook. Is this you, or is someone else out there claiming to be the lead on the Unreal-4 migration of CoH?
http://www.gofundme.com/t88k49s
Yes, Batman vs. Superman is the one on my mind...
Suicide Squad Joker could be really good. I like the guy playing him--he's been fantastic in other movies (definite acting talent there), and I'm all for presenting another "version" of the Joker. They (DC) fail if they try to recreate Jack Nicholson's or Heath Ledger's Joker.
Actually the topic on my mind is Batman vs Superman!!!
Also, what do people think of Suicide Squads Joker?
Keen, or not Keen?
Irish_Girl, I just ran across this on Facebook. Is this you, or is someone else out there claiming to be the lead on the Unreal-4 migration of CoH?
http://www.gofundme.com/t88k49s
I will donate as soon as I get a new card - some moron tried to buy new shoes in Oregon with my card.
Thanks guys,Just sent you a contribution.
Michiyo and I both appreciate it.
I will donate as soon as I get a new card - some moron tried to buy new shoes in Oregon with my card.Ha, that's nothing! :)
Ha, that's nothing! :)
Years ago, one of my credit card #'s was stolen (free tip - never order food deliveries that insist on a carbon copy of your credit card when they deliver it to your house - cash only, or don't place the order), and they bailed someone out of jail, went out to a big dinner at a restaurant, bought a new wardrobe, and then bought airline tickets out of town! It was a trip. I tell my friends it sounds more like the plot of Hollywood movie.
Ha, that's nothing! :)
Years ago, one of my credit card #'s was stolen (free tip - never order food deliveries that insist on a carbon copy of your credit card when they deliver it to your house - cash only, or don't place the order), and they bailed someone out of jail, went out to a big dinner at a restaurant, bought a new wardrobe, and then bought airline tickets out of town! It was a trip. I tell my friends it sounds more like the plot of Hollywood movie.
Irish_Girl, I just ran across this on Facebook. Is this you, or is someone else out there claiming to be the lead on the Unreal-4 migration of CoH?
http://www.gofundme.com/t88k49s
Thanks guys I hit my funding goal yesterday, and a few more people donated after the fact! The parts will be ordered ASAP.
Thanks guys I hit my funding goal yesterday, and a few more people donated after the fact! The parts will be ordered ASAP.
I will donate as soon as I get a new card - some moron tried to buy new shoes in Oregon with my card.
I've had mine cloned twice and they tried to buy women's clothes the first time
No honey, that was credit card fraud. Also the five hundred dollars of internet porn and the Ducati. All fraud.
I'm not so much thinking about Batman v Superman as worried about it. Not that I think it will be horrible, but rather I'm not sure they are laying the right groundwork for future material. Its little things that add up; for example the battle with Batman and Superman in TDK didn't have an air of ridiculousness because of context: we were dealing with a world that basically looked like Robocop's old Detroit and there was also a sense of finality to that fight. In almost any other context Batman in a suit of powered armor doesn't really fit the character: its not like he can just strap on the Hulkbuster in one story and then easily forget about it afterwards. Even if it works it taps into some iconic Batman imagery for the immediate payoff but might sacrifice some of the options for the future: where do you go with Batman after he's literally brawled with Superman with his fists? And where do you go with Superman when he's gone toe to toe with a guy in a suit of armor?
Suicide Squad is the project I'm most interested to see how it all plays out. Its the absolute crap-shoot, in that sense sort of Warner's Guardians of the Galaxy. You get the feeling its either going to be fantastic, or a disaster, depending on how well they take risks and land them. Leto's Joker seems to be emblematic of that. At first, I wasn't keen on the direction they seemed to be going in, but I've come around to the possibilities. Heath Ledger's Joker was a radical departure in some respects and a big risk, but it paid off in spades. Leto's Joker could be equally risky and equally rewarding: bringing back more of the "criminal genius" element combined with a more physically dangerous Joker, like Anthony Hopkins' Hannibal Lecter that primarily plays with people's minds but can, if he wants to, be physically ruthless and dangerous.
2 week delay here - bump
:(
The other, bigger megathread seems to be doing the trick as an in-house chat while we wait. I don't really see the point of keeping two chat threads going when they're both just killing time until there's some sort of announcement about the i23 rez/IP lease/etc.
No big new announcement will be made in either of these threads, let's face it; anything dramatic will have its own announcement thread. Why wend your way through two chats? Let this one go. It was gone fine on its own. :)
If an announcement was made for either good or bad news, where would the announcement be made first you think? Here on the boards, Facebook, Twitter or one of the gaming sites like Massively Overpowered, MMORPG or another option I've not thought about?
If an announcement was made for either good or bad news, where would the announcement be made first you think? Here on the boards, Facebook, Twitter or one of the gaming sites like Massively Overpowered, MMORPG or another option I've not thought about?
If an announcement was made for either good or bad news, where would the announcement be made first you think? Here on the boards, Facebook, Twitter or one of the gaming sites like Massively Overpowered, MMORPG or another option I've not thought about?
I have already promised to start a fund for advertising and seed it with $250 to start it.
I have already promised to start a fund for advertising and seed it with $250 to start it.
Just noticed Downix paid the forums a visit on the 30th May 2015, first time on the forums since 31st December 2014!Probably seeing if we have been good kids :) Or checking his messages.
What do you think could of brought Downix to the forums....? Speculation begins or not!
Just noticed Downix paid the forums a visit on the 30th May 2015, first time on the forums since 31st December 2014!
What do you think could of brought Downix to the forums....? Speculation begins or not!
Well, I hope he at least noted that the "wake me when there's real news" thread is up to almost 10,000 hits now. :DI'll admit, I'm responsible for 3 of those hits... :-\
I'll admit, I'm responsible for 3 of those hits... :-\
It would help a lot of forum software had the brains to not count multiple visits to the same unchanged thread by the same account as multiple views.
Simple enough to do though, just add it to the cookie that already exists on your PC, so it already knows whether you've read that thread or not.
I read from multiple PCs, and cookies have some rather small, and browser-specific, limits. There are other ways to track this client-side, but those as have limits and browser-specific elements.
Sure, you can't get it perfectly, but you can certainly get a hell of a lot closer than not actually trying! :p (Not a personal "you" ;) )
Y'know Arcana, I -am- a developer... I know what's involved! ;)
I'm not specifically trying to educate you, I'm just pointing out the massive levels of death and destruction your algorithms appear to revel in.
Now I need CoV to comeback so I can Make Al Go Rhythm, a Sonic/Something Corruptor... :o
I'm not specifically trying to educate you, I'm just pointing out the massive levels of death and destruction your algorithms appear to revel in.
But, how else am I going to take over the world?!
Trying to take over the world by breaking everyone's browsers didn't work out for Microsoft, and their attempt was probably better funded.
Trying to take over the world by breaking everyone's browsers didn't work out for Microsoft, and their attempt was probably better funded.
Trying to take over the world by breaking everyone's browsers didn't work out for Microsoft, and their attempt was probably better funded.
I guess I'm going to have to resort to the fembots then...
I guess I'm going to have to resort to the fembots then...
For some reason every time I hear fembots, this is the first thing that comes to mind.
I was thinking of something a little more... attention grabbing!
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=home.comcast.net%2F%7Ejimv833%2F3Dportfolio%2Fmetro%2Ffutura1a.jpg)
Curious since Windows 10 is debuting at the end of July (and the "Free Upgrade" icon is on my Task Bar) whether I should bother to get it or wait and see if CoX will still work/be compatible with it.... ? :gonk:Reports elsewhere say ICON works with the Win10 preview, so no problems there.
Curious since Windows 10 is debuting at the end of July (and the "Free Upgrade" icon is on my Task Bar) whether I should bother to get it or wait and see if CoX will still work/be compatible with it.... ? :gonk:I follow the conservative rule for Windows version upgrades - wait until Service Pack 1 is released. I'm not touching Win10 until then. That will also give 3rd party developers some time to come up with a "make the Win10 Start Menu look like the Win7 Start Menu" app that I can install right after getting Win10 installed.
I follow the conservative rule for Windows version upgrades - wait until Service Pack 1 is released. I'm not touching Win10 until then. That will also give 3rd party developers some time to come up with a "make the Win10 Start Menu look like the Win7 Start Menu" app that I can install right after getting Win10 installed.
They don't do service packs any more, so you're going to have a long wait.Then I'll wait until at least Jan, 2016. Should give the
They don't do service packs any more, so you're going to have a long wait.
Then I'll wait until at least Jan, 2016. Should give theunpaid beta testersearly adopters time to help Microsoft work out the bugs.
Every time I upgrade to a new version of Windows, I virtualize my old system and keep that around on the new one. That way if something horribly breaks in the new version of Windows, I can usually still run my old system, even if I have to level the PC and reload Windows itself.I have an easier - but more expensive - solution that I use. My best friend builds computers for a living. So, in Jan, 2016, I'll go to him and say "Build me a new PC and install Windows 10 on it." My current Win7-Pro machine will thus be working just fine both before and after this event.
Its a bit of a sledgehammer, but its impractical for me to be without a functioning computer for too long (I do also have a laptop, but that's not quite the same). Actually, I'm going to be moving from sledgehammer to bunker-buster for Windows 10: I'm going to take my Win7 PC and virtualize it, then upload it to my corporate private cloud, add the Horizon direct connect plugin to it, and have a copy of my original system available whenever I want to reference it.
On the one hand, that's crazy with a capital "CRAZY." On the other hand, I built the damn infrastructure, so screw it I'm gonna use it.
I follow the conservative rule for Windows version upgrades - wait until Service Pack 1 is released. I'm not touching Win10 until then. That will also give 3rd party developers some time to come up with a "make the Win10 Start Menu look like the Win7 Start Menu" app that I can install right after getting Win10 installed.
They might have an analog for business customers (rollup points) but otherwise, yes, what most people aren't apparently aware of is that Microsoft has decided to leap into the world of rolling patches. Windows will basically patch itself, (for the most part) without user intervention *or* acquiescence.
That oughta be interesting. On the one hand, Microsoft has shown no ability to do that right so far. On the other hand, *forcing* their patch process to *get* there would be good for everyone.
Already done, you can choose to use the classic Win start menu or the Win 8 tiles right from the start.Excellent - the last screenshots I saw of Windows 10 were displaying that damn Metro-style Start Menu and I said "Well, I see the first thing that needs fixing."
Do these patches still require (read: force) reboot? I'm hoping not, but I'm expecting...If I have a SQL query running overnight on my work PC and a damned forced reboot interrupts it, I will be on the phone to MS tech support screaming bloody murder and searching for any hack I can find - legal or not - to stop that from happening again.
If I have a SQL query running overnight on my work PC and a damned forced reboot interrupts it, I will be on the phone to MS tech support screaming bloody murder and searching for any hack I can find - legal or not - to stop that from happening again.So tell it to update at a different time than your SQL query. Problem solved without haranguing a support tech. People like your claim here get put up on notalwaysright.com.
So tell it to update at a different time than your SQL query. Problem solved without haranguing a support tech. People like your claim here get put up on notalwaysright.com.That depends on if MS gives us any control in Windows 10 of when patches are applied and reboots occur. From the posts above, I'm a little nervous about that. As far as I'm concerned, the weekends are a great time for updates to happen - during the week, don't bother me.
Excellent - the last screenshots I saw of Windows 10 were displaying that damn Metro-style Start Menu and I said "Well, I see the first thing that needs fixing."
Every time I upgrade to a new version of Windows, I virtualize my old system and keep that around on the new one. That way if something horribly breaks in the new version of Windows, I can usually still run my old system, even if I have to level the PC and reload Windows itself.
Its a bit of a sledgehammer, but its impractical for me to be without a functioning computer for too long (I do also have a laptop, but that's not quite the same). Actually, I'm going to be moving from sledgehammer to bunker-buster for Windows 10: I'm going to take my Win7 PC and virtualize it, then upload it to my corporate private cloud, add the Horizon direct connect plugin to it, and have a copy of my original system available whenever I want to reference it.
On the one hand, that's crazy with a capital "CRAZY." On the other hand, I built the damn infrastructure, so screw it I'm gonna use it.
That depends on if MS gives us any control in Windows 10 of when patches are applied and reboots occur. From the posts above, I'm a little nervous about that. As far as I'm concerned, the weekends are a great time for updates to happen - during the week, don't bother me.
Already done, you can choose to use the classic Win start menu or the Win 8 tiles right from the start.
Excellent - the last screenshots I saw of Windows 10 were displaying that damn Metro-style Start Menu and I said "Well, I see the first thing that needs fixing."
Windows 10 Home users will not be able to turn off automatic updates, though there's no information yet on the reboot part. Windows 10 Pro and Enterprise users will have the same control over updates as we do now. Nothing will change on that regard.ugh, not sure if i trust microsoft enough to have automatic updates, as my current computer is the first i've ever had where i've yet to have an update cause an unexplained slowdown or break something, and that could be because i've only had it a few months.
ugh, not sure if i trust microsoft enough to have automatic updates, as my current computer is the first i've ever had where i've yet to have an update cause an unexplained slowdown or break something, and that could be because i've only had it a few months.
So on a side note, how does everyone feel about Darrell Hammond as the new Col Sanders in the new KFC commercials?
I am of two minds, I like Darrell a lot from his SNL days, but the new Col Sanders feels kinda disrespectful and out of character. . .
So tell it to update at a different time than your SQL query. Problem solved without haranguing a support tech. People like your claim here get put up on notalwaysright.com.
On the other hand, yelling at an MS tech support flunky gets absolutely nowhere. I've done it myself. Jeez most of the time they are looking up the problem you're reporting in google, like you didn't do that yourself before calling them.What, they're not required to Bing their answers?
So on a side note, how does everyone feel about Darrell Hammond as the new Col Sanders in the new KFC commercials?
I am of two minds, I like Darrell a lot from his SNL days, but the new Col Sanders feels kinda disrespectful and out of character. . .
Media in general when it comes to entertainment seems to think the audience are dumb%^&es, from games to movies. Heck, saw a new TV show advertised about some gal covered in nothing but tattoos. Sigh, I bet it's another mary sue character, it's all we ever pancaking get these days.
"I am the chosen one". Ok, we get it. "Oh i'm a chosen one to!" Ok.....cliche..... "Hey, here is another chosen one!" FOR PETES SAKE STOP IT WITH THE SAME CHOSEN ONE CRAP OVER AND OVER AGAIN NOT ALL OF US ARE BLOODY TWILIGHT FANS.
It's all we ever see, they even have to have some special power or something to make things easier for them since they suck at writing.
"I am the chosen one". Ok, we get it. "Oh i'm a chosen one to!" Ok.....cliche..... "Hey, here is another chosen one!" FOR PETES SAKE STOP IT WITH THE SAME CHOSEN ONE CRAP OVER AND OVER AGAIN NOT ALL OF US ARE BLOODY TWILIGHT FANS.
It's all we ever see, they even have to have some special power or something to make things easier for them since they suck at writing.
I am of two minds, I like Darrell a lot from his SNL days, but the new Col Sanders feels kinda disrespectful and out of character. . .
Curious since Windows 10 is debuting at the end of July (and the "Free Upgrade" icon is on my Task Bar) whether I should bother to get it or wait and see if CoX will still work/be compatible with it.... ? :gonk:
Thanks for all the feed-back on Win 10 - made my reservation and hopefully none of my older games will be affected....
Of course then comes the question: do we really NEED to move to Windows 10? Seven and 8 as I recall do not sunset for 5 years still and even then they can still be used. My XP box still has its uses.
Obviously the choice is yours, BUT, if you don't do it in the first year of W10's release, you'll have to buy it instead of getting it for free.
Windows Vista.....no comment.
*sigh* It gets a bit old seeing things like this, especially when it's essentially nonsense.
The only people who had issues with Vista, are those who had hardware who's manufacturers didn't get their drivers done. This was not Microsoft's fault, it was the hardware vendors. They had plenty of time to get up to speed, and didn't.
*sigh* It gets a bit old seeing things like this, especially when it's essentially nonsense.
The only people who had issues with Vista, are those who had hardware who's manufacturers didn't get their drivers done. This was not Microsoft's fault, it was the hardware vendors. They had plenty of time to get up to speed, and didn't.
Vista, on release, worked fine if you had hardware that was on the list of certified devices, had at least double the minimum requirements as far as RAM and HD space, and did not do anything that required significant memory, or multi-processor support. That actually meant that a large portion of customers should not have had too many issues, or that the issues they did have, could have been easily resolved. That does not mean that there were not actual problems with the OS. I worked with Microsoft for months prior to release, and continued working with them after release, to help quantify and fix some of those issues.
For my part, dealing with Windows 10 so far was looking up how to disable GWX.exe this weekend, which has gotten annoying as hell on every Windows 7 PC/laptop I own or work on. Microsoft has gotten a bit too pushy with that.
Of course then comes the question: do we really NEED to move to Windows 10? Seven and 8 as I recall do not sunset for 5 years still and even then they can still be used. My XP box still has its uses.
It's just an icon in the system tray... How can that be annoying? :P Just hide it!Did that, then killed it in Task Manager. As soon as you reboot, it comes right back. It's not visible in MSCONFIG Startup, and I couldn't find it in Component Services, either. The easiest solution I found when searching Google was to rename the two GWX subdirectories in C:\Windows to "GWX_old". Seems to have worked so far.
Did that, then killed it in Task Manager. As soon as you reboot, it comes right back. It's not visible in MSCONFIG Startup, and I couldn't find it in Component Services, either. The easiest solution I found when searching Google was to rename the two GWX subdirectories in C:\Windows to "GWX_old". Seems to have worked so far.
Well, in my opinion if you're running Windows 8 I see little reason not to upgrade, as 10 is a better 8. If you're running 7, you'll have a learning curve but it will be better than with 8.0 and Windows 7 is actually about at the end of mainstream support (it goes into extended support for about five years). Since you generally do not want to upgrade with a gun to your head, and Windows 10 does have significant improvements over 7, I'm generally recommending to people to take the free upgrade to 10 in the vast majority of cases. The automatic update thing gives me pause, but not enough to throw away a free upgrade quite yet.
You'll be kicking yourself when your pre-download doesn't pre-download.I don't want it to. Like I said above, I'm waiting until at least Jan, 2016 before I touch Windows 10. If that means I have to pay for it, fine, then I'll pay for it - later.
Well, in my opinion if you're running Windows 8 I see little reason not to upgrade, as 10 is a better 8. If you're running 7, you'll have a learning curve but it will be better than with 8.0 and Windows 7 is actually about at the end of mainstream support (it goes into extended support for about five years). Since you generally do not want to upgrade with a gun to your head, and Windows 10 does have significant improvements over 7, I'm generally recommending to people to take the free upgrade to 10 in the vast majority of cases. The automatic update thing gives me pause, but not enough to throw away a free upgrade quite yet.
So on a side note, how does everyone feel about Darrell Hammond as the new Col Sanders in the new KFC commercials?
I am of two minds, I like Darrell a lot from his SNL days, but the new Col Sanders feels kinda disrespectful and out of character. . .
I grew up in Louisville, KY, and very much remember Col. Harlan Sanders, founder of Kentucky Fried Chicken and creator of the seasonings and original gravy (not, unfortunately, the gravy you get today from KFC). After KFC was franchised and sold to a parent company, Col. Sanders (A Kentucky Colonel, not a military one) served for a number of years as a traveling spokesperson for his "Kentucky Fried Chicken", and was quite outspoken when the parent company changed recipes to save money, producing a less tasty product.
After making his money off the KFC franchise, sale, and spokesperson work, Col. Sanders was also quite the local philanthropist, giving money to a number of local charities.
So, I have to agree that seeing an actor portraying the Colonel as a cartoonish buffoon is pretty distasteful, honestly, to anyone who remembers the actual Colonel.
You're generalising. Was it problem free? No, but there were far less issues caused by MS than people make out. When Vista came out I was running an old Pentium 3 at 2ghz, 4gig RAM and a Radeon 8500. It multi-tasked just fine, didn't have any problems with my home network, didn't suck up all my 500gb drive, and all my USB peripherals worked just fine.
A good 90% of all the "problems" people experienced were down to media vitriol and 3rd party driver issues.
Maybe this more unique to my situation but I never upgrade right away or even for the first year or so.
You're generalising. Was it problem free? No, but there were far less issues caused by MS than people make out. When Vista came out I was running an old Pentium 3 at 2ghz, 4gig RAM and a Radeon 8500. It multi-tasked just fine, didn't have any problems with my home network, didn't suck up all my 500gb drive, and all my USB peripherals worked just fine.
A good 90% of all the "problems" people experienced were down to media vitriol and 3rd party driver issues.
Happy Birthday Downix :D
Any good news on the horizon ;)
How do you know his birthday? :P
So look around the forums. There's your answer.
How do you know his birthday? :P
And as for the second part, no no no shush now! This is what started the entire Facebook Scoundrel Fiasco last time. Don't even ask. If something definitive and positive happens, they'll announce it, and if not, then clearly we know that too by the lack of any announcements.
So look around the forums. There's your answer.
See, this attitude is actually getting quite annoying now. It's been a year, we should be asking what's going on; we deserve to know.
See, this attitude is actually getting quite annoying now. It's been a year, we should be asking what's going on; we deserve to know.
I work in an industry where deals can take years to close, all the while everything is under NDA
I work in an industry where sometimes it takes me an hour and a half to get out of bed, all the while playing clash of clans under the covers.
I work in an industry where sometimes it takes me an hour and a half to get out of bed, all the while playing clash of clans under the covers.
See, this attitude is actually getting quite annoying now. It's been a year, we should be asking what's going on; we deserve to know.
No the idea that we deserve something is getting annoying. We don't deserve ANYTHING
We aren't paying them to do this, we didn't hire them to do this, they aren't doing this out of a debt, they aren't doing this because they have a gun to their head.
I'm still seriously wondering, though, why there is such a COMPLETE clamp-down on information. Certainly nobody involved wants to give out details, but it seems to me that the existence of negotiations, and that they are proceeding, is something that both sides should want. Silence just slowly devalues the property, which is not good for the current owner or the proposed future owner.
It's like a movie that is being worked on... you don't spoiler information, but you do spoil the fact that the movie is being worked on, or planned, etc. Because in entertainment, being discussed is good for almost any property. I can't see how, as long as details are not revealed, either party would be hurt by revealing officially that there are negotiations going on.
That people are getting annoyed by the lack of information is also understandable. That's why you do not discuss these things unless you know what the end game is. That's why the devs tended not to pre-announce stuff too early. That's why I said leaking this was a mistake. It was probably an honest mistake, but let this be a lesson. One day you'll (the general you) be in a position to know something. You'll want to share. You'll want the pleasure of dropping hints or making announcements. You'll want to be recognized as someone who informed the rest of the world about something. Its a pretty, powerful, deceptively innocent impulse. Its also one of the most destructive ones you can have. Never write checks you can't cash, and absolutely never write them on someone else's account.
The anxiety of being in the dark is a common, natural feeling: even I'm not immune to it. Have mercy on the negotiating team, this wasn't their fault. Have mercy on the people going crazy about the lack of information, this also wasn't their fault. Even have mercy on the original leaker, because this wasn't their intent. But remember, for the next time someone wonders why we aren't hearing about something or even for the next time you hear about something. Is the discussion of that thing ultimately going to be good for the discussers, or not? That should be a guiding principle for wondering why certain topics should or should not be openly discussed.
Since no one's talking, I presume negotiations are still going on. There's not really any other logical conclusion. Does knowing this make you feel better?
No, because that situation encompasses "Negotiations are going on and they're like Fast and Furious XVII", as well as "Well, negotiations were never officially stopped but we're exchanging an email every other month". In both situations we'd have the same information and the NDAs would still apply, but they're vastly different in their results.
To put it another way: I WOULD feel better if I knew that ACTIVE negotiations are going on. I can understand that they might take a while even if they're trying to move along. But right now I don't have enough reason to feel confident that this is going on as opposed to just negotiations being officially going on but not moving anywhere for several months.
See, this attitude is actually getting quite annoying now. It's been a year, we should be asking what's going on; we deserve to know.You do not deserve anything, actually.
To me it's pretty simple, we deserve to know because without us there efforts are pointless.
You do not deserve anything, actually.
I mean, it'd be pretty nice if we got some information. It'd be awesome, actually. But no one deserves information. Why do you deserve information? Because you sat on your ass for a year and a half? lol
You're an adult. You should choose your words with more care.
There's no such thing as passive negotiations. There's also no distinction between fast and slow negotiations that you can reasonably convey if under an NDA. Consider that for all of my "knowledge transfer" in City of Heroes I only got in (very minor) trouble with the Powers That Be at Paragon Studios twice when it came to talking about things I wasn't supposed to be talking about (at least that I ever found out about). One of the two was when I mentioned how long it took for a specific project to go from discussion to implementation. I *didn't* get in trouble for actually describing, in detail (in another context) every single step in that process. If that doesn't make sense to you, you don't have enough experience in these kinds of situations to be a good extrapolator for what is and is not sensitive discussion material.
Deserve might be a bit strong, but without the fans, you have no one to sell a product too. Leaving us hanging too long with -nothing- to keep the hope going is just not right. It's torture.
If my chronology is correct, this all started with a leak from someone not authorized to discuss, which then compelled them to respond.
Since no one's talking, I presume negotiations are still going on.I would likely get in trouble if I confirmed or denied this. So I'll just whistle.
When the news leaked, and Nate made his announcement, we were all given the impression that it was "imminent". If it really was known to be a long long ways off yet at that time, then that should have been communicated so folks didn't their hopes up so soon.
A simple "It could be a year or more away yet." would have sufficed.
When the news leaked, and Nate made his announcement, we were all given the impression that it was "imminent". If it really was known to be a long long ways off yet at that time, then that should have been communicated so folks didn't their hopes up so soon.
A simple "It could be a year or more away yet." would have sufficed.
My point is that there is a loss of attention, and in entertainment, you almost never want to lose attention (and never when you have a good product). And loss of attention seems like it would hurt both sides. So I do understand how negotiations could continue at a slow rate, and how the NDA can't really decide what "discussion materials" to limit. I just don't understand WHY they decided to go with negotiations that are not only private but, in effect, secret. This isn't a merger, and it's not a negotiation that will affect stock prices. Burying an entertainment product for 2-3 years while selling it is also harming it while selling it.I got your point just fine, and I still reiterate that this is not atypical. You're comparing development, where there is a stead stream of news to tap for marketing purposes, with contract negotiations for which there is almost always none.
I know at the time what I considered "Soon" and what a lot of other people considered "soon" was quite different. A couple people I talked to thought the announcement meant that the game being up and running was days away. Soon to me was more a long the lines of several months to get the deal bashed out.
That being said, things have taken a lot longer than (I) expected. Nexon going aggro on NCSoft wasn't exactly something Nate planned for, I'm sure.
Since the announcement, I believe myself and a couple others have tried to get across that these kinds of deals are glacially slow from the end user perspective.
And trust me when I say...knowing the details as they happen doesn't help in the slightest . Lol.
You're missing my base point... not that what they're doing (or failing to do) is morally wrong, or that we deserve more, or that there is a problem with the NDA, or with how it's being observed. I understand that none of those speak to any reason why anyone should announce any information.
My point is that there is a loss of attention, and in entertainment, you almost never want to lose attention (and never when you have a good product). And loss of attention seems like it would hurt both sides. So I do understand how negotiations could continue at a slow rate, and how the NDA can't really decide what "discussion materials" to limit. I just don't understand WHY they decided to go with negotiations that are not only private but, in effect, secret. This isn't a merger, and it's not a negotiation that will affect stock prices. Burying an entertainment product for 2-3 years while selling it is also harming it while selling it.
When the news leaked, and Nate made his announcement, we were all given the impression that it was "imminent". If it really was known to be a long long ways off yet at that time, then that should have been communicated so folks didn't their hopes up so soon.
A simple "It could be a year or more away yet." would have sufficed.
I was under the impression that the negotiations were effectively on hold while the Nexon/NCSoft dance was going on, so right now, literally nothing is happening.Not nothing, but definitely chilled things while they're pulled around the prom.
You are not a prospective customer until a product or service is made available for consumption.
Complaining about not hearing what is happening with your non-existent product or service is crazy-talk.
Its a bit like pulling on the leprechaun's beard so it is length you think it should be. It doesn't make the gold any shinier.
Not really. Studios been marketing for movies well before launch. Same thing with video games. In fact according to you a pre-order is crazy talk. How could you buy a product that is not released yet.
Not really. Studios been marketing for movies well before launch. Same thing with video games. In fact according to you a pre-order is crazy talk. How could you buy a product that is not released yet.
Actually, that might not be the best example, because many believe that the way the current marketing machine works for video games combined with the preorder system that is standard practice these days combines to make game development a nightmarish generator of poor quality, burned out developers, and failed studios.
The best evidence of this happening is probably with EA, especially with the now defunct Maxis branch. However, some developers do pre-orders well like these good people:
Well, you'll know the pre-order system didn't do noticeable damage if Fallout 4 itself releases in time without horrible bugs or gameplay issues.
I worked in cinema for 7 years. Even worked under one of the greats (you may know him from his work on MASH, Nashville, Popeye and other such hits, *not* the father, but Robert Reed Altman, the directors youngest son, great guy). And you know what? I *WISH* these negotiations were as easy as one for movies, and cinema negotiations you go in expecting to be rakes over the coals.
Well, you'll know the pre-order system didn't do noticeable damage if Fallout 4 itself releases in time without horrible bugs or gameplay issues.
I mean Aliens: Colonial Marines was released in a horrible state, but if the preorders came with functioning pulse rifles I would have just thrown the game up in the air, shot it with my pulse rifle, and called it even.
Two Words:I'll see your Arkham Knight and raise you an Assassins Creed Unity
Arkham Knight
I'll see your Arkham Knight and raise you an Assassins Creed Unity
I never played Unity, but I got Arkham Knight, and it's every bit as bad as reported--completely unplayable. It's like watching a Viewmaster slideshow--even with trying some of the listed community "fixes."If you want an idea how bad Unity was, watch Yahtzee's review of it:
If you want an idea how bad Unity was, watch Yahtzee's review of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB3DrTkVgHw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB3DrTkVgHw)
Yeah, but they didn't take Unity off the shelves, did they? They have the PC version of Arkham Knight... Now that's bad...
Didn't they outsource the PC conversion? Looks like someone didn't QC what came in from the outside developer...
I actually thought it was amusing that when they did comment on it, they made sure to mention that it was an outsourced project. I'm curious about a partnership between the two of them in the future...haha!
Same thing can be said about Kickstarter campaigns
Yeah, but they didn't take Unity off the shelves, did they? They have the PC version of Arkham Knight... Now that's bad...
Didn't they outsource the PC conversion? Looks like someone didn't QC what came in from the outside developer...
Steam refunds didn't exist when Unity released.
And only gave them like....two months to work on it. Isn't that practically setting them up for failure?
I said shelves, not Steam. Steam isn't the only method of buying the thing, you know. Ever heard of actual retail stores and boxed games? Yeah, they're still a thing.
Also, the refund thing on Steam is completely irrelevant and has nothing to do with them delisting a product. They've done that plenty of times before.
Nate: I don't know if you still read this thread, but I'm curious. I know you're under an NDA but has anyone in the negotiations mentioned Paragon Chat?
Other than that, there's nothing to say. Ask Robert DiGregorio over at CoH Survivors what happens when people talk.He deletes the comments he disagrees with or that disagree with or question him?
He deletes the comments he disagrees with or that disagree with or question him?
He deletes the comments he disagrees with or that disagree with or question him?Or if he sees a comment he does not like he sends them a message threatening to kick them out of the group. One such encountered when he said "If the buyers do not say something he will." I remember this because I made a comment saying it was not his place to say something like that. Similarly I had a few friends that said the same thing. Robert I think is just full of himself thinking he has any kind of power because he runs a Facebook page. I like the other groups I am in. I respect those admins, they try to keep everything even and not really biased, whereas Robert I have no respect for.
Or if he sees a comment he does not like he sends them a message threatening to kick them out of the group. One such encountered when he said "If the buyers do not say something he will." I remember this because I made a comment saying it was not his place to say something like that. Similarly I had a few friends that said the same thing. Robert I think is just full of himself thinking he has any kind of power because he runs a Facebook page. I like the other groups I am in. I respect those admins, they try to keep everything even and not really biased, whereas Robert I have no respect for.Oh yeah, i've gotten some querulous/threatening PMs from him for making fairly whimsical jokes.
Oh yeah, i've gotten some querulous/threatening PMs from him for making fairly whimsical jokes.
Or if he sees a comment he does not like he sends them a message threatening to kick them out of the group. One such encountered when he said "If the buyers do not say something he will." I remember this because I made a comment saying it was not his place to say something like that. Similarly I had a few friends that said the same thing. Robert I think is just full of himself thinking he has any kind of power because he runs a Facebook page. I like the other groups I am in. I respect those admins, they try to keep everything even and not really biased, whereas Robert I have no respect for.
YOU WILL REGRET THIS!
(https://i.imgur.com/a5yrT4j.png)
YOU WILL REGRET THIS!
(https://i.imgur.com/a5yrT4j.png)
I left the minute I saw one of his "all of us or none of us" posts. I don't care if he's delusional or somebody had him playing on a full working secret I24 server, that "all of us or none of us" concept (promoted only after he was no longer one of the "privileged"?!??) was so unequivocally repulsive that I can not imagine ever wanting any knowledge of anybody promoting it, let alone associating with them.
A part of me is glad I missed all that drama, because I lack the self control to not hand open containers of gasoline to clumsy pyromaniacs.
You too?
Yeah, but they didn't take Unity off the shelves, did they? They have the PC version of Arkham Knight... Now that's bad...
I was wondering if like myself people have been thinking if there will be an update or post from Downix on the 1st September, a year after the first announcemnet of the attempt to purchase CoH.Sadly, I doubt it :(
I can't believe it's been nearly a year since the first announcement from Downix, how time flies, but the company on the forums has been good, the addition of PC has been amazing, so thank you to the folks who brought us this memorable addition to the exiled CoH community and the continued Titan forums. ;)
Sadly, I doubt it :(
It's unlikely that news on the deal will coincide with any anniversary, or date.
Stay away from the hardware stores, they have lime (Deadly to starfish).
For that matter stay away from the Pacific North West, we have that dissolving starfish wasting disease thing going on here.
What I want to know is...how does this get out the door? I would have thought that a company that large would have a halfway decent QC department...
Fortunately for my face, I'm in the pacific northwest. I recommend a nice vacation on a mountain.
Never blame QA; they have next no power over decisions and can potentially be fired for voicing anything that resembles an opinion. They aren't even allowed to use the word "should" in a bug because it implies that they know how the game is supposed to work, because as far as the Devs are concerned QA is nothing but a group of monkeys with minimal training to pick bugs and they are treated as such. They can't really fight back if a dev decides that a bug isn't worth fixing.
I started to wonder from time to time if I was the only person out here who played CoH!
(Doesn't help I played on a predominantly east coast server, I'm sure)
Glad to see I'm not the only person who wound up on triumph for the arbitrary top o' the list reason. From talking to folks there though i always got the impression i was in the minority as an east coaster.
Glad to see I'm not the only person who wound up on triumph for the arbitrary top o' the list reason. From talking to folks there though i always got the impression i was in the minority as an east coaster.
What I know is that from about 8pm Hawaii time, the server was pretty dead until about 2 or 3am, when it was about 8ish in the morning on the East Coast (depending on daylight savings). If you wanted to team, that was bad. If you wanted to collect badges in RV or collect Shivans, pretty good times to operate.
Wait... Servers had locations?!
I just picked Infinity because it was at the top
I was on Virtue almost exclusively.
Did that, then killed it in Task Manager. As soon as you reboot, it comes right back. It's not visible in MSCONFIG Startup, and I couldn't find it in Component Services, either. The easiest solution I found when searching Google was to rename the two GWX subdirectories in C:\Windows to "GWX_old". Seems to have worked so far.
That depends on if MS gives us any control in Windows 10 of when patches are applied and reboots occur. From the posts above, I'm a little nervous about that. As far as I'm concerned, the weekends are a great time for updates to happen - during the week, don't bother me.
In Windows 10 Home, there is no way to disable the automatic download and install of updates through the regular user interface; that's limited to Windows 10 Pro and Enterprise. However, you can find any number of websites that will walk you through making the registry changes necessary to disable either or both of those options, and give you control of your updates back. However, that's beyond what the average Windows Home user is going to be interested in doing; they just want the computer to work. And it will... barring the occasional system-bricking broken update that has led me to wait on processing updates until after I see if there are negative consequences to them.This is... slightly wrong.
This is... slightly wrong.
Windows 10 Home allows you to:
A) Delay download if you are on a metered connection (e.g. not unlimited data) - if you're not on a metered connection, you can't tell it to not download - but that's not really a big deal these days
B) Delay install if you turn that option on.
As far as I'm aware, Pro and Education editions allow you to defer updates. Windows 10 Home does not have that feature. The Windows 10 troubleshooting tool can allow you to "hide" updates in Windows 10 Home edition, but that tool does not work on all updates: some updates are flagged to be mandatory even if hidden and will download and install automatically.As I am on Windows 10 Home, I speak with experience. You can delay the installation with the option Settings > Update & security > Advanced options > Notify to schedule restart. You'll be notified to schedule a restart, which is when it'll install the updates it automatically downloaded.
Although I haven't played with this much myself, I've been told the metered connection option only exists on Wifi connections. The option isn't available for ethernet connections.
Although I haven't played with this much myself, I've been told the metered connection option only exists on Wifi connections. The option isn't available for ethernet connections.
As I am on Windows 10 Home, I speak with experience. You can delay the installation with the option Settings > Update & security > Advanced options > Notify to schedule restart. You'll be notified to schedule a restart, which is when it'll install the updates it automatically downloaded.
When I first started playing City (or rather, shortly afterwards, when I got my own account: I started playing on my brother's account) I picked Triumph as my home server, because it was at the top of the server list.
I haven't tested it in great detail, but I think that only controls when the restart happens, not when the updates are actually installed. More than once I've gone into the updates window on a Win10 Home laptop to see that it wanted to reboot and was saying it would restart at 3:15 AM with an option to defer, but it looked like the updates it was rebooting for had already been installed.
Also, not all updates require a reboot, even in Win7 and 8.
One other thing I noticed is that Win10 Home completely removes support for connecting to a WSUS server.
My control group for that was a Win8.1 Pro desktop and a Win8.1 Home laptop, both of which were configured through Group Policy to get their updates from a WSUS server, therefore they only see updates that I have approved.
After upgrading them both to Win10 with no other changes, the Pro machine still only shows updates approved through WSUS (and it hilariously shows up as "Windows Vista" in the WSUS management console now). The Win10 Home machine no longer updates its status in WSUS and seems to be getting updates directly from Microsoft, ignoring the policy settings entirely.
For being a small server, it seems like there is alot of people on this forum from Triumph
I picked Justice. It sounded coolest. :)I thought Infinity had the coolest name, I would of chosen that server had my friend not already been playing on guardian. I don't regret being on guardian though, found a great SG to be apart of.
I assumed the disproportionate number of Triumphers on these forums had to do with hardcore forum types being disproportionately pantsless.
I was once on a task force where I looked around and realized myself, Stupid_Fanboy, and Golden Girl were all on the same team. I remember thinking to myself that everyone else on that team should have gotten a badge for that. What's more, it was an exceptionally unchatty team.
Not counting emoticons I assume.
When I started, I picked Triumph (Yep, another Triumphateer? Triumphverate? Triumphian?), I picked it, not because it was the top of the list...
I picked it because I could remember it: Triumph, for the Insult Dog Comic.
That's a great story...
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.qkme.me%2F3tlj5z.jpg)
If you had less virtue than you had infinity that's damned impressive.
When I started, I picked Triumph (Yep, another Triumphateer? Triumphverate? Triumphian?), I picked it, not because it was the top of the list...
I picked it because I could remember it: Triumph, for the Insult Dog Comic.
It's interesting that everyone say's "server X was at the top of my list".
It must have been a randomly sorted thing, I played on mainly Champion, 'cause it was at the top of my list. . .
*snip*
I don't actually know how Virtue became the "role playing server" although I do know it took some time for that to develop. I've always suspected that Virtue became the de facto RP server by happening to be a heavily populated server that was not Freedom and was time shifted from Freedom (Virtue was a West Coast server at the beginning of time). When the RPers were looking for a home base, they wanted a high pop server, but wanted to escape Freedom, and Virtue was the logical choice. That's always been my theory, but as I was not an active member of the RP community back then, I don't know the internals of how the community went in that direction.
I started on Champion because my then-boyfriend-now-very-ex was on it. I moved to Justice because I found friends there. Eventually I graduated to "every server" because my altitis cannot be contained.
I have alts in games where you can eventually be everything (like Final Fantasy or Secret World)!! My altitis knows no limits!
I had alts that were exact duplicates of another toon on the same server, but with different names and costumes because... because... altitis.
I had alts that were exact duplicates of another toon on the same server, but with different names and costumes because... because... altitis.
Actually, what I liked, and this is a mark of a great RPG-experience is that even if I had two toons with the exact same powersets, their individual backstory, costumes and interactions with Paragon City's other residents (both NPC and character controlled) turned each and every one into a fully-realized "person" all their own. Some were goofy, some all business, some vengeful, others protective... Aw, man, here I go... I really really miss some of those guys.
Even re-making them, they won't be the same "person" they were before...
I had alts that were exact duplicates of another toon on the same server, but with different names and costumes because... because... altitis.I had Aggelakis, Aggelakis II, and Aggelakis III on Justice. Agge is an emp/archery, 2 is emp/dark, and 3 is dark/archery. I had three of them because my Agge concept was bigger than City could encompass. lol
I had Aggelakis, Aggelakis II, and Aggelakis III on Justice. Agge is an emp/archery, 2 is emp/dark, and 3 is dark/archery. I had three of them because my Agge concept was bigger than City could encompass. lol
I had Aggelakis, Aggelakis II, and Aggelakis III on Justice. Agge is an emp/archery, 2 is emp/dark, and 3 is dark/archery. I had three of them because my Agge concept was bigger than City could encompass. lol
Good to see someone else also just take their main's name and make alts with the name too. I didn't that on Triumph besides maybe 8 other people in the whole server. Personally I did that because I lack creativity to think of a name.
I started and finished on Freedom, and when that server was down I made a few characters on Justice and Virtue :)
Freedom was home to my 'comedy' characters...
Chuckles the Barbarian
The Running-Away Man
Doctor Defeatable
Doorsitter Boy
Captain Frogtoes
Magic Gus
Captain Colostomy
Abe Vigoda
The backstory for my main when I created her was that she was an experimental clone from a different timeline in which the Rikti won the Rikti war. As a result, when it came to making alts on different servers, I had a built-in reason for reproducing my main on them with anything from minor to major changes in design.I had a villain Brute, on Infinity, named Sasyk, who was a tad insane(due to how he was granted his abilities). I had inspiration to create a Heroic copy of him on the same server because of a mission where some group was creating clones of your character. In the mission, Sasyk saved his clone's life. That clone decided to do something constructive with his life. He had the same Power-sets, but was a Tank instead of a Brute, and also was a tad less insane.
I had Aggelakis, Aggelakis II, and Aggelakis III on Justice. Agge is an emp/archery, 2 is emp/dark, and 3 is dark/archery. I had three of them because my Agge concept was bigger than City could encompass. lol
Freedom was home to my 'comedy' characters...
Chuckles the Barbarian
The Running-Away Man
Doctor Defeatable
Doorsitter Boy
Captain Frogtoes
Magic Gus
Captain Colostomy
Abe Vigoda
I had a character that was similar, though I had five alts. I eventually 'nerfed' her as I wanted to focus more on certain aspects of her abilities and felt her having to many wasn't particularly balancing;
Kin/energy defender(Eventually began obsoleting it, time manipulation showed up). My most powerful offensive support character. I was likely to just rename the char, since I'd done so much with this one.
Mind/Kin controller: Redundant and deleted.
Fortunata: The main iteration.
Energy blast/time manipulation: The other main iteration.
Kin melee/Willpower: A melee iteration.
A reboot of the game will only have one of those and even then, I'll likely change a detail or two. Probably make a robotics/time manipulation version of the character, as I am leaning towards in paragon chat.
He was a mall-cop from the 25th century catapulted back through time due to a mishap with a device at Radio Shack.
Must have been one of those trendy hipster product revivals.
I had Altitis. I don't think it was a bad as some of yous guys' addiction though. I only had somewhere around 150 or so characters spread across all the American servers
I had a villain Brute, on Infinity, named Sasyk, who was a tad insane(due to how he was granted his abilities). I had inspiration to create a Heroic copy of him on the same server because of a mission where some group was creating clones of your character. In the mission, Sasyk saved his clone's life. That clone decided to do something constructive with his life. He had the same Power-sets, but was a Tank instead of a Brute, and also was a tad less insane.
Freedom was home to my 'comedy' characters...Nice :D, I too had a few joke characters on Freedom and Justice,
Chuckles the Barbarian
The Running-Away Man
Doctor Defeatable
Doorsitter Boy
Captain Frogtoes
Magic Gus
Captain Colostomy
Abe Vigoda
Nice :D, I too had a few joke characters on Freedom and Justice,
Captain BunBun
A Bunny, it was funny when an npc talked about A Bunny; such as "I saw A Bunny take on Frostfire. " :D
Nice :D, I too had a few joke characters on Freedom and Justice,
Captain BunBun
A Bunny, it was funny when an npc talked about A Bunny; such as "I saw A Bunny take on Frostfire. " :D
I made "A Man With A Gun" once, for the same joke... But deleted him because he was a goober.
I saw "An Ordinary Man" running around the city at one point...
I had the weirdest dream. . .
NcSoft decided to keep control of the property, so instead of selling, they decided to hire Nate to handle the US license & Cailyn to re-develop the US content under the new game engine. . . And *Gasp!* they hired ME to be the lead creative developer!
For some reason, one of the guys on their crew knew that my late wife (She died of cervical cancer in 2004) was Korean and for some reason or another, they liked the silly BS I had posted on the APR website. (And it really is kinda silly)
You guys are probably lucky it was just a dream! ;D
Still though it was a very vivid, seriously ego stroking dream, one of those dreams you remember all day after waking, and then go on to think about all day.
*sigh* If only it could be true. . .
Heh heh heh In my dreams at least it can be! ;)
I suspect many of us have had that particular 'lottery' dream, Sinistar. :-)
I made "A Man With A Gun" once, for the same joke... But deleted him because he was a goober.
I saw "An Ordinary Man" running around the city at one point...
I liked it when two Hellions were chatting away and when I Force Bolt one of the to the next county he says, "Catch ya later".I made a Dark/Energy stalker before energy aura was changed, when it still had repel. For a while, it's repel wouldn't knockback if you were in stealth so i'd sometimes leave it on when solo. It was funny when my AS would hit so hard that the whole mob was sent flying.
I don't know what's worse, the fact that NCsoft shut down CoH due to them being greedy and just wanting money, or the fact that Lineage 2 has been 100% Free to Play since 2011 with additional micro transactions and yet, Lineage 2 hasn't been shut down... Am I the only one who sees how just screwed up this is?
Lineage 2 is NCSoft's baby, their signature game.
It's like choosing to hire your less talented best friend over a more talented acquaintance. Not saying it's a good choice, but that's the way NCSoft seems to handle things.
That said, just because Lineage 2 is F2P and is considered an inferior game to CoH doesn't mean it deserves to be shut down. It could still be bringing them lots of money from the korean market.
The other character I congratulated myself with naming, perhaps too much, was Quiet Sprinting: Bots/Nature's Affinity. Anyone know the Bruce Dern movie reference? We had so much fun in the forest on the rooftop in Atlas Park.
I had one once named No Body, a stalker. Thus when he defeated opponents they could say "Nobody defeated me"
Fundraising idea for Nate and crew:
Allow players to pay ahead of the re-opening to reserve character names (across all servers) and global names. The alternative is (of course) to just roll a name in-game and hope nobody got it already.
At $20 each I'd probably pay for only 2.
At $10 each I'd probably pay for 5.
At $5 each I'd probably pay for 7.
So for me, $10 per name seems to be the sweet spot for the revival effort to make the most money from me ($50).
How much would the rest of you be willing to spend if the names were reserved for $20, $10 or $5 each?
Lineage 2 is NCSoft's baby, their signature game.I'm not saying Lineage 2 should be shut down, I just don't think it makes sense that NCsoft has a game that's completely F2P still running, and yet shut down CoH when it was making them money, no matter how small, CoH was still making them money... At the very least, they should've tried to sell CoH before now instead of sitting on it, specially when the reason given for shutting down CoH was because it wasn't making them money
It's like choosing to hire your less talented best friend over a more talented acquaintance. Not saying it's a good choice, but that's the way NCSoft seems to handle things.
That said, just because Lineage 2 is F2P and is considered an inferior game to CoH doesn't mean it deserves to be shut down. It could still be bringing them lots of money from the korean market.
I'm not saying Lineage 2 should be shut down, I just don't think it makes sense that NCsoft has a game that's completely F2P still running, and yet shut down CoH when it was making them money, no matter how small, CoH was still making them money... At the very least, they should've tried to sell CoH before now instead of sitting on it, specially when the reason given for shutting down CoH was because it wasn't making them moneyLineage 2 being f2p doesn't matter when Lineage 2's money intake dwarfed City's. F2P still means micro (and not-so-micro) transactions.
Lineage 2 being f2p doesn't matter when Lineage 2's money intake dwarfed City's. F2P still means micro (and not-so-micro) transactions.Good point, I just find it hard to believe that Lineage 2 was making way more money thru only those kinds of transactions when CoH had people paying $15 every month
At the very least, they should've tried to sell CoH before now instead of sitting on it, specially when the reason given for shutting down CoH was because it wasn't making them money
To the best of my knowledge, NCSoft never officially gave a specific reason for shutting down City of Heroes. Nor is it likely they would have.
To the best of my knowledge, NCSoft never officially gave a specific reason for shutting down City of Heroes. Nor is it likely they would have.
Admitting that it was an act of spite would have been bad PR. :P
I just cannot accept that it was an act of spite or maliciousness. There had to be a valid business reason, right or wrong, someone had to think retiring the game was a good idea and best for business at that time.One can only hope that NCsoft learned from it, it'll suck if it turns out that they haven't learned a thing...
While we as players don't get it, the idea of a Korean business showing loyalty to American customers really seems to be a "foreign" concept to NcSoft. I do think they learned something from the unanticipated public backlash, while it may not significantly change their business model, it does now give them pause a for consideration.
While we as players don't get it, the idea of a Korean business showing loyalty to American customers really seems to be a "foreign" concept to NcSoft. I do think they learned something from the unanticipated public backlash, while it may not significantly change their business model, it does now give them pause a for consideration.
Good point, I just find it hard to believe that Lineage 2 was making way more money thru only those kinds of transactions when CoH had people paying $15 every month
I just cannot accept that it was an act of spite or maliciousness. There had to be a valid business reason, right or wrong, someone had to think retiring the game was a good idea and best for business at that time.
I'm sure the next time they buy an MMO from an American developer and attempt to operate it in the North American market with a wholly owned subsidiary composed of former employees of that developer and then decide to shut it down, they'll contemplate it for several more minutes before starting the paperwork.
Wildstar is sinking rapidly.
Good point, I just find it hard to believe that Lineage 2 was making way more money thru only those kinds of transactions when CoH had people paying $15 every month
Couple things to keep in mind when making this comparison. You might have one person spending a couple hundred at a time on Micro in L2, on top of the bunch of people who are buying little bits at a time.
You've also got * A LOT * more people who play L2 than ever played CoH.
(https://i.imgur.com/7DJAdpZ.jpg)
A mobile gaming company admitted 50 percent of its income came from less than 1 percent of its players.
Perspective:
When you have a game based in another country making less than 1% of what your other games make - then this game decides to try and buy its way out of your stable. It could definitely rub some people the wrong way - and it did. Then you add on top of that some personality conflicts and NCSoft decided - its not worth the aggravation.
I know to us walking away from $10 million a year seems like a lot - to them it is chicken feed. When you back away and gain perspective you see that NCSoft said - give the players a couple of months and then close it down, we have other things in the works with the Nexon mergers and don't have time for this.
Then we deluged them with emails and other things and they said make this stop and go away. Now we have an effort that has none of the personality issues and I would highly doubt if they are dealing with anyone who was in on the closure. They are talking to the dead game storage folks and the legal department. You likely have a VP of some sort thrown in - but this game to the main company is history. They find no reason to revisit a game that failed in Korea. Look at where their money comes from:
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/9392/NCSoft-Earnings-Not-Everyones-Drinking-Champagne-in-the-Executive-Suite.html
Here they tie Wildstar who are VERY similar to CoH except they are earning less than when they shut CoH down. When you saw the statement by NCSoft about closing CoH to refocus on other locations - they meant - we can't seem to figure out what makes America and Europe tick - but we can make bucket loads in Korea.
"deluge them with emails and other things"
I don't like how you make that sound like a bad thing. A good business person would look at it as communication between themselves and their customers and thus a good thing. A bad business person would think, "how dare this arrive in my ivory tower from the plebs and why don't they just send me money".
That depends on the nature of communication. If they were getting tons of "screw you guys, never playing your games again if you go through with the closure" mails with very few constructive stuff in-between then it's not surprising they wanted less mails.
After all, if you have to sift through a big pile of crap in order to find a few nice gems, you'd probably prefer it to be a smaller pile of crap. Especially if the gems aren't that valuable to begin with.
You see I think Nexon wants to move into our market and also wants NCSoft to head this way.
I think this is what their big fight is over.
You see I think Nexon wants to move into our market and also wants NCSoft to head this way.
I think this is what their big fight is over.
If you want to carry around the ate for NCSoft that is your affair.
I look at the company and just take note that they are clueless as to what the Western market likes. They finally came to the same conclusion. I was amazed at Wildstar as I thought surely they won't try it again - well they did and it fell flat on it's face.
I just don't believe they understand the market.
That depends on the nature of communication. If they were getting tons of "screw you guys, never playing your games again if you go through with the closure" mails with very few constructive stuff in-between then it's not surprising they wanted less mails.
After all, if you have to sift through a big pile of crap in order to find a few nice gems, you'd probably prefer it to be a smaller pile of crap. Especially if the gems aren't that valuable to begin with.
I don't know about anyone else, but I was extremely polite and civil in my letter to NCsoft's CEO.
Maybe so, but any email that an executive is reading should be relevant to their business, or it's effectively spam. No matter how nice or polite it is.
And a CEO's business is NOT to get opinions or suggestions from fans of a game, much less such a minor one such as CoH. They have lower level managers who are supposed to take care of communication with players, sorting and grouping suggestions and opinions, and delivering single reports out of hundreds or thousands of emails or forum posts.
When a CEO gets an email that, even if they still cared about the game, would be the province of a manager several steps down on the job organization chart, that email is spam to them.
My letter wasn't an email. I sent hard copy. In any case, considering that they had announced that they were cancelling CoH at the time, I'd say it was pretty relevant to their business especially if they wanted to keep all of those customers. But... apparently they didn't. *Shrug.*
Oh sure, they probably knew those four things, but their flailing over the backlash seems to indicate that they underestimated the numbers and damage that they predicted.
Hell, the stock crash that hit them during that time was just frosting on the cake and makes me wonder who realized that they were holding the hot potato.
In fact, this "fight" was totally one-sided, on our side. We bombarded them with complaints. They basically ignored us and went about their business.
"Flailing?" I literally have no idea what could possibility be interpreted as anything other than the day after they announced the shutdown they moved on completely from it, and never once expressed any regret for it. Or expressed anything about anything about it.
"Holding the hot potato?" I think your narrative of how events played out has significant inconsistencies with reality.
You seem to have this mental picture of an epic battle between a few nasty NCSoft executives and the CoH player community. In fact, this "fight" was totally one-sided, on our side. We bombarded them with complaints. They basically ignored us and went about their business. And as far as the Paragon Studios shutdown is concerned, that's the end of that story.
asking for outrageous pricesActually, Nate Downes said there was a price that was doable. Of course, don't let that ruin your crusade.
Actually, Nate Downes said there was a price that was doable. Of course, don't let that ruin your crusade.
Really, so you don't remember the pleading to make the emails and letters stop because it was making "work difficult?" Because I do. If they ignored us completely as you claim, they wouldn't have even said that. It would have just been flat, outright silence.
What else do you call that stock plummet after their announcement?
"Please stop sending crap to us" is not the same thing as engaging with us. Its the exact opposite. And even the word "plead" has connotations that aren't true.
A coincidence. Its more likely the stock dropped after NCSoft reported significant losses in the previous period. For that matter, the stock rose significantly for about a year after the game actually shutdown. Also a coincidence, and probably due to the fact that NCSoft's financial strengthened after the third quarter.
If there was, that was never reported to me. How long ago was that, I wonder? Because back during the shutdown, I had a little birdy telling me some prices that were quite unbelievable. But go ahead, get insulting if you want.
Interestingly placed coincidence, right after the noise of the saber rattling was hitting the gaming news sites no less.
At the time of the shutdown, I had multiple direct statements that said price itself was not the problem. It was high, but doable, particularly given the revenue numbers I was given at the same time.
And none of that was "damage control" because those particular discussions happened before the shutdown announcement.
If there was, that was never reported to me. How long ago was that, I wonder? Because back during the shutdown, I had a little birdy telling me some prices that were quite unbelievable. But go ahead, get insulting if you want.I don't know, maybe in the first post in the new efforts thread???
I don't know, maybe in the first post in the new efforts thread???
But I don't see anything about the original prices NCsoft was asking for with this venture?
By way of example, look at how they terminated the Paragon Staff. On a Frdiay, no warning, and that was that. Its just not done that way here.
I HATE to beg. I feel so...so....dirty!
Those numbers were never released. The only people in a position to know that were the people in the room, and none of them have talked. Believe me, I tried, and while I was able to get some interesting bits of info from people outside the room, they didn't know those kinds of details.
By way of example, look at how they terminated the Paragon Staff. On a Frdiay, no warning, and that was that. Its just not done that way here.
Completely wrong, I'm afraid. I work as a computer programmer. I've been laid off twice and fired once, and both times it was "I'm going to have to let you go. Here's a box. Security will escort you to your desk to collect your personal items." If it's done any other way, there's just too much risk that you'll walk out the door with code or data, or cause some damage before walking out.
Those numbers were never released. The only people in a position to know that were the people in the room, and none of them have talked. Believe me, I tried, and while I was able to get some interesting bits of info from people outside the room, they didn't know those kinds of details.
Unless you're talking about that stupid $80 million rumor that seems to have started as a forumgoer's estimate of something and somehow mutated into "NCSoft's insane asking price". That's an irritatingly persistent one, right up to the point as of being presented to people at Valve, et al. by their underlings as the price point -- at least until they did the research and realized it was bogus. That one really just needs to die already. It's laughably far off, as the few buyout attempts to actually get past the ncsoft desk clerks found out. It didn't help that a few prominent people in the community who should really know better repeated it without verifying what it was or where it came from.
The $80 million myth came from a relative of someone who worked at NCSoft in Austin.
They were under the assumption some new tax changes in Texas would cause the buy out price to include other tax liabilities. This believe it or not was the myth that changed everything.
Once I ran this down and it was found to be untrue - the relative was a sister to one of the folks now making the effort to buy the game! They then contacted some of the original TFHM team and was able to get to the person at NCSoft who could actually make the decision to sell the game.
Other groups had tried to get through but did not have the name of the person and so got stopped by the wall of minions who stop progress. It is like the old saying if you have to ask someone for the name or price - they don't want to talk to you.
Completely wrong, I'm afraid. I work as a computer programmer. I've been laid off twice and fired once, and both times it was "I'm going to have to let you go. Here's a box. Security will escort you to your desk to collect your personal items." If it's done any other way, there's just too much risk that you'll walk out the door with code or data, or cause some damage before walking out.
Completely wrong, I'm afraid. I work as a computer programmer. I've been laid off twice and fired once, and both times it was "I'm going to have to let you go. Here's a box. Security will escort you to your desk to collect your personal items." If it's done any other way, there's just too much risk that you'll walk out the door with code or data, or cause some damage before walking out.
My favorite was the dual simultaneous meetings. If you were invited to one you were immediately "laid off" and an army of security marched all of you to the door. If you went to the other you were given a little speech about how this was needed for the company and then they sent you back to work.Been there, done that... I don't recall the day of the week (it was a *l o n g* time ago), but it *was* first thing in the morning, because after packing our stuff, 4 or 5 of us who were in the layoff batch, went over to the local bar for an early lunch to comiserate, grouse, and have a couple (ok, several :-X) beverages.
Heh. All this "Sure, it may have been your favorite game of all time, a game by which all other games before and since have come to be judged (and all found wanting), but to NCSoft, it was just a teeny tiny nothing, so you shouldn't be mad about it" is not having the intended affect, I think.
Hey, Chun Li, Bison doesn't even remember murdering your father. It was just a Tuesday for him. So lay off all the anger, okay?
(Yeah, yeah, I know that's not a perfect analogy, but that's how I feel. The fact that what they took away from me - from all of us - was so insignificant to them does not make me feel better at all, it makes me feel worse)
Hurray for cloud storage!!
This is pretty much where I'm at.
Side note:
I had a dream that I was a Warshade last night. I don't know what that means, but it happened regardless.
So, people here are still using the "business takes as long as it takes" excuse to keep this dream going?
So, people here are still using the "business takes as long as it takes" excuse to keep this dream going?Aren't you the bastion of positivity. You do not seem to understand how business is or how long business takes. Iron Wolf has repeatedly said that the Nate and the team has to deal with Nc Soft, they are a Korean company, so that means they have to play their game.
It's not a "dream," as the negotiations are active and alive. And it's not an "excuse" either, since we are getting assurances from the team doing the negotiations that they are proceeding.Exactly chuck :)
The worst that could happen is the deal falls through. Even then, we'll have Heroes and Villains, City of Titans and Valiance Online to choose from. All 3 seem to be making notable forward progress, and it seems all 3 will probably be going to beta in the next couple of years.
So, people here are still using the "business takes as long as it takes" excuse to keep this dream going?
So, people here are still using the "business takes as long as it takes" excuse to keep this dream going?
Considering that's pretty much exactly how business works, it's amusing that you even can call it an excuse. Let's hope you never have to deal with a government office; they're even slower.On three occasions the company i work for ended up working directly for a government agency instead of an artist or gallery or estate. (We do sculpture fabrication and restoration.) Each time it's been a long drawn-out annoyance with many, many irrelevant requirements added to what is normally a straightforward job. Each time it's over we say we hope to never do it again.
So, people here are still using the "business takes as long as it takes" excuse to keep this dream going?
Aren't you the bastion of positivity. You do not seem to understand how business is or how long business takes. Iron Wolf has repeatedly said that the Nate and the team has to deal with Nc Soft, they are a Korean company, so that means they have to play their game.
You are free to think and believe anything you want, however, I think you might only have a very few people think that. I would like to think there are a lot more thinking we will get our home back. Even I have to say if this attempt fails does not mean that will be over and done.
What's it been, about 3 years now since this started? Does that seem acceptable? And while we are at it, where are these updates from the negotiation team? The "new efforts" thread hasn't been updated in months.If what I understand, these new talks have only gain momentum just a little over a year. City of. was closed down 3 years ago. The original attempt failed, you might want to read Iron Wolfs posts to understand on what happened. So yes it is completely expectable.
I think most people that haven't gone through business negotiations before view this as, more or less, akin to buying a used car. It's there, sitting, we've made an offer for said car. It's essentially rusting away. Yes or no to my offer?
That's NOT what is involved with this kind of deal.
As Arcana, I believe, pointed out, this is, essentially, negotiation by committee. So the salesman doesn't have to just get his manager's approval. He has to get six people to sign off on the sale of the car. And, oh, yeah, Joe's with another customer right now. And Ed's on vacation. Bill? He was here just a minute ago. Does anyone know where Bill is? From this standpoint, it truly is like herding cats to get all necessary people to sign off on the deal.
Now, that said, I would assume that there are multiple deals going here.
1) What's the business plan? (In other words, how does NCSoft know that Nate and Co can run/manage the game?) Note that this doesn't just include, "Show us what you got," but were I in NCSoft's shoes, I'd want to know things like projected income/expenses associated with setting up and running the game, where they'd host, how will the store work, will there be a store, justification of these decisions, etc. And if any of those issues NCSoft didn't like? It would be a discussion about how NCSoft thought there was a better way to do it, or pointing out perceived flaws in the plan and having to rework it.
2) I'd assume that Nate and Co want to see a working image of the game. Going back to the car analogy, this would be like taking the car for a test drive. Just because a "car" is sitting on the lot doesn't mean it can start and drive. Again, the engineering resources NCSoft may be willing to apply to making that disk image work may be low, so it may be taking time for them to untangle the spaghetti code. While it may be being worked on, again, I'm betting that any engineer working on this part of it is not spending a lot of his time on it, as they probably have a lot more pressing issues. Put another way: His/her annual review probably relates to current live games. If they let this game slip a bit, it's probably not going to hurt their review as much as resurrecting a game image instead of fixing those bugs in Aion would.
3) What rights are associated with the game? Can Nate and Co change splash screens? Does NCSoft's logo have to be plastered all over things? Can they hold annual events, like the ski chalet? Do they have the tools to open the chalet? To turn on 2xp? Even if they do, are they allowed to? Or is the game actually set in stone at I23's normal state?
4) Licensing agreements? Does NCSoft have any input on that at all? Can the holding company license things to anyone they want without any input from NCSoft? Does NCSoft retain any rights? What rights do they retain? Can NCSoft use Statesman, etc. if they so decide, once the sale goes through, without contacting the holding company?
5) Terms. What's the up front payment? What are the periodic payments, if any? What happens if the cash flow set up in part 1 isn't there? How long will the contract be in effect? Is this a lease or a purchase?
6) Other things I'm not thinking of
That's a whole lot of stuff to get consensus on. Each one of those things not only has to be agreed to by the people Nate is talking to, but I guarantee that NCSoft's corporate lawyers are involved. And that's another layer of things dragging on the timeline. Even if the managers, etc. say, "Sure," the lawyers could, and probably are, coming back saying, "Giving up the rights to those characters is not in the best interests of the corporation. We've made edits to the contract." and the whole process starts over again.
There's a LOT more to this than just buying a car. It's more like buying a NASCAR, showing the sponsors you can drive at 200 mph and have a decent pit crew, and figuring out not only who the sponsors will be but also where their logos will be placed on the car.
This isn't a sprint. It's a marathon. That's why no news is good news.
^
^
This
Am I the only one more anxious for Valiance and Titans just so I can forget this effort exists and can be surprised when real news is announced?
Actually I'm more excited for Valiance right now because they keep churning out tangible screen shots. CoT just been building up lore base, which is fine, but it isn't as "Shock and Awe" as screen shots
Yes, but didn't Valiance online already have quiet a jump on things with their game engine, which was transitioned from an earlier (and different) game development plan? Or I could be wrong.
They did, but just seeing something tangible is more exciting. Don't get me wrong, when CoT is at Valiance level, that will be exciting too.
It means your chest cavity will soon burst open with an alien in its second form scratching and biting its way out.
The evil secret of pre-alpha: it's ugly and awkward. I think it's brave of the Valiance crew to put any work product out to the public. I'm glad the server has been down while they work out things.
I.e.: all animations were SS jab.
I plan on supporting all the projects but I'm glad Valiance has that head start and that they and MMM seem to be on amicable terms
I plan on supporting all the projects but I'm glad Valiance has that head start and that they and MMM seem to be on amicable terms
What's it been, about 3 years now since this started? Does that seem acceptable? And while we are at it, where are these updates from the negotiation team? The "new efforts" thread hasn't been updated in months.Just over 1 year.
bioware austin kinda beat that joke to death..it is their answer to everything...and we know more about what is in VO than we do about what is in the next swtor expansion in a month and a half.
I can tell you once you get the legal department involved it slows down and this may be the case here. It took over a year where I work for Legal to allow us to switch platforms from Blackberries to iPhones. The techs were all ready just Legal had to say yes.
bioware austin kinda beat that joke to death..it is their answer to everything...and we know more about what is in VO than we do about what is in the next swtor expansion in a month and a half.
Just over 1 year.
The team approached NCSoft as a group of PLAYERS to buy the game in March of last year. Due to the launch of Wildstar and a merger with Nexon - they were asked to come back in August.
Since it was a group of people who were not a game company but a start up - NCSoft gave them some tasks to complete to prove they could manage the game (we don't know what the tasks were). Once completed to NCSoft's satisfaction they said yes to everything so far. Nate has said repeatedly in differing threads they (NCSoft) have not said No yet.
It is also common knowledge they are under an NDA - without them coming right out and saying it (because they can't). During this time Nexon tried a hostile takeover of NCSoft which they found a slight bit distracting. So far, NCSoft is working slowly but surely to close the deal.
I can tell you once you get the legal department involved it slows down and this may be the case here. It took over a year where I work for Legal to allow us to switch platforms from Blackberries to iPhones. The techs were all ready just Legal had to say yes.
I'd also love to walk around in some of the zones that Caylin Alaynn / Irish Girl has been creating as part of Atlas Park Revival. They look amazingly good.
It is my dream that these end up as the zones of CoH 2, if Nate can secure the IP that would allow that to be created.
PC chatHeh. Paragon Chat chat. ;)
Heh. Paragon Chat chat. ;)Hey, i know people who say they need to use the ATM machine... ???
Hey, i know people who say they need to use the ATM machine... ???
Heh. Paragon Chat chat. ;)
I hate to say this: without the CoH ip and with paragon chat/icon, Irish Girl's work feels like practice for eventual real work on a new game (unless we get those maps added to PC chat).
Lol. Paragon Chit-Chat.
"COME BE A HERO IN PARAGON CHIT-CHAT!!! WELCOME TO SPARTA!!!"
I need sleep protection for my defenders,blasters and controllers in my builds.Do I need status protection or status resistance or both?Even looking at the sets I'm have no idea how stop or limit sleep attacks.Resistance to status effects is usually of limited utility since it only reduces the time mezzed. Most enemies are obliging enough to break the sleep using their own attacks well before it wears off anyway. There are few powers that give sleep protection that come early enough to be useful and they're usually on really long timers. Blasters can attack while slept and most Controllers have pets to fight and draw aggro while slept. Defenders, Dark aside, not so much. Usually the best approach when solo for all three ATs to deal with enemies using sleep is to pop Break Frees or preemptively mez the enemies first.
Resistance to status effects is usually of limited utility since it only reduces the time mezzed. Most enemies are obliging enough to break the sleep using their own attacks well before it wears off anyway. There are few powers that give sleep protection that come early enough to be useful and they're usually on really long timers. Blasters can attack while slept and most Controllers have pets to fight and draw aggro while slept. Defenders, Dark aside, not so much. Usually the best approach when solo for all three ATs to deal with enemies using sleep is to pop Break Frees or preemptively mez the enemies first.I don't know about you, but I always seemed to get slept by the Malta LTs then ignored for the duration of the Sleep. It was really irritating when I didn't have any break-frees.
I don't know about you, but I always seemed to get slept by the Malta LTs then ignored for the duration of the Sleep. It was really irritating when I didn't have any break-frees.Right? Just kinda chilling there. Not killing and not dying... SO AWKWARD.
Resistance to status effects is usually of limited utility since it only reduces the time mezzed. Most enemies are obliging enough to break the sleep using their own attacks well before it wears off anyway.
During this time Nexon tried a hostile takeover of NCSoft which they found a slight bit distracting. So far, NCSoft is working slowly but surely to close the deal.Do what? Did Nexon really try to takeover NCsoft by force?
Do what? Did Nexon really try to takeover NCsoft by force?
1. Just for completeness sake, resistance to status effects generally does reduce the duration of the mez, with one pseudo-exception: KB resistance reduces the magnitude of the KB. That's because of the peculiar nature of KB, where KB is both a status boolean *and* a separate physics engine effect.
To simplify a bit, KB magnitude determines both *if* you are thrown, and *how far* you are thrown. KB magnitude less than or equal to zero is no KB: if the KB effect is less than your protection nothing happens. KB magnitude greater than zero but less than one is knockdown: you fall down, but aren't thrown. KB mag greater than one throws you a distance related to the total magnitude of the KB effect.
Weirdly, most melee KB protection had both resistance and mag protection: specifically they had 100% resistance** plus protection. Because they had 100% resistance and KB resistance isn't capped below 100% like damage resistance, just the resistance alone made them immune to KB. The magnitude of the protection was basically irrelevant (it would be relevant to unresistable KB, but that didn't exist commonly).
2. Status resistance was often belittled, but I personally think it did have some value in many cases. For example, most players didn't know that the typical NPC hold was designed specifically to be non-perma. That way a single such critter couldn't just perma-hold a player with no protection and kill them. But the hold could have very high persistance: Illusionist blind for example could keep you held something like 85% of the time (if it hit). But if you faced multiples you could still be perma-held, and if you faced them above even con their holds would increase in duration with the purple patch, and you could be perma-held, and some mezzes *were* capable of perma-holding, like the Malta stun. Having resistances to these effects, particularly but not just when solo, could be the difference between breaking the mez fast enough to survive or not.
Sleeps, as you point out, were generally the exception because sleep was a "fragile hold" - damage broke it, so the odds of being perma-slept or even slept for a long period of time were low.
** Actually, they sort of had 10,000% resistance. This was a vestigial example of the early devs that built the game being either mathematically illiterate or not understanding the game engine or both. The powers set KB resistance to 100, on a scale of zero to one, with one being 100%. So "100" is 100x 100%, or 10,000%. Because there's no real difference between having 100% resistance to KB and having any other higher number, the error was never changed (also the game effectively caps KB resistance to 100% for magnitudes because higher numbers have no meaning***). But if you're ever wondering why City of Data lists status powers as having "+10000% Res(Knockback, Knockup)" and what that could even mean, that's why. Its not an error - at least not an error on City of Data's part.
*** On the other hand, resistances greater than 100% *do* have meaning when you're applying resistances to durations. A conversation I had about that subject prompted, I think, the devs to make changes to how status resistances were capped and handed out which significantly increased - albeit not as high as I think was appropriate - the level of status resistance you could get in the invention system. *Eventually* status resistance could have been a lot more valuable than we are discussing here, because we could have been talking about potentially very high values of resistance being achievable by players - well in excess of 100 percentage points****.
**** Don't get me started about the difference between % and percentage points.
Do what? Did Nexon really try to takeover NCsoft by force?
I need sleep protection for my defenders,blasters and controllers in my builds.Do I need status protection or status resistance or both?Even looking at the sets I'm have no idea how stop or limit sleep attacks.
I guess it's too late to take this down the path of using /e drink for a chance at a Coffee buff.Only if the buff is named Cuppajo.
Only if the buff is named Cuppajo.
Only if the buff is named Cuppajo.
As best I understand, Nexon did in fact launch a bidding war but failed to raise enough capitol and the inside support that they needed to pull it off. Certain key stockholders that they needed to swing decided not to play along or changed course. There are a lot of hurt feelings, and it probably isn't over yet.Is there any idea as to why Nexon is so keen on taking over NCsoft? I mean, what are they going to do if they were to take over NCsoft?
Is there any idea as to why Nexon is so keen on taking over NCsoft? I mean, what are they going to do if they were to take over NCsoft?
I have more questions than answers right now, and it's driving me nuts :P
Is there any idea as to why Nexon is so keen on taking over NCsoft? I mean, what are they going to do if they were to take over NCsoft?
I have more questions than answers right now, and it's driving me nuts :P
<snip>. Kinda like those old Warner Brothers cartoons when the wolves and the sheep dog stop fighting long enough for a coffee break. . .
*Snort!*
Yeah, and the weirdest part is that both companies' CEOs were childhood friends who went into the gaming industry together in the 1990s. This whole thing has reportedly put a large strain on their friendship, with NCSoft's CEO entrenching his wife and friends into positions in NC's upper echelon to shore up their business better against potential bribes and attacks. NC also entered into a huge stock deal with Netmarble to better fend off buyouts from Nexon.The Soap Opera of two Rival Korean Companies, NCsoft and Nexon, coming to the theater near you...
Now the real kicker here is that NC could possibly find itself having to similarly guard against Netmarble in the future because of that....
As much as I hate NCSoft (not just over CoX, but also Tabula Rasa's closing and their continued poor handling of Lineage 2 NA and Aion NA), I like Nexon even less. Sheesh. Someone should make a soap opera or a novel about these companies.
The Soap Opera of two Rival Korean Companies, NCsoft and Nexon, coming to the theater near you...
*3 years later*
Random person: "Well, that Soap Opera sucked, at least it got what happened right!" :P
Heh. Paragon Chat chat. ;)
Sleeps, as you point out, were generally the exception because sleep was a "fragile hold" - damage broke it, so the odds of being perma-slept or even slept for a long period of time were low.This actually reminds me of the one time I got perma-slept. I was in Crey's Folly and a Crey Protector hit me with their ice ray attack. This was back when the mez resist inspiration was discipline so (obviously) break frees were not available - which is kind of a moot point because I didn't have a discipline anyway.
CoT mages.
I was 25 levels higher and one of them slept me as I stood there chatting after running a mission. I was on a Fire/Fire blaster - that's when I started thinking of a design of my own based around range and sleeps. The Sonic/Ice/Ice blaster had the most ranged damage + number sleeps I could design.
If you keep applying sleeps they often barely move when attacked. Drop a snowstorm on them chilling embrace and Ice patch and you never get hit.
CoT mages.
I was 25 levels higher and one of them slept me as I stood there chatting after running a mission. I was on a Fire/Fire blaster - that's when I started thinking of a design of my own based around range and sleeps. The Sonic/Ice/Ice blaster had the most ranged damage + number sleeps I could design.
If you keep applying sleeps they often barely move when attacked. Drop a snowstorm on them chilling embrace and Ice patch and you never get hit.
CoT mages.
I was 25 levels higher and one of them slept me as I stood there chatting after running a mission. I was on a Fire/Fire blaster - that's when I started thinking of a design of my own based around range and sleeps. The Sonic/Ice/Ice blaster had the most ranged damage + number sleeps I could design.
If you keep applying sleeps they often barely move when attacked. Drop a snowstorm on them chilling embrace and Ice patch and you never get hit.
Coming from the world of defenderdom(?) I too was a big, big fan of using slows in conjunction with other soft controls. It's not just about recharge and playing the range game with them, the NPCs have movements for activation abilities that get slowed as well. Two or 3 slow users can totally neuter big +level groups easily.
Alot of post... i skipped to the very last , just to asked, are we getting coh back or what? ;D ;) Please someone give it to me straight and short. ;D
Alot of post... i skipped to the very last , just to asked, are we getting coh back or what? ;D ;) Please someone give it to me straight and short. ;D
They added Nexon negotiations have complicated matters. It has been stated that negotiations progress, but slowly.
But I want it NOWWWWWWW
*pouts* >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( :'( :gonk:
Maybe it's time for the direct approach:
"Awright!~Listen up you lot! It only took God seven days to create the world! And ya'll can't complete a game of "Let's Make a Deal" in 900? GET WITH THE PROGRAM! DON'T MAKE ME COME OVER THERE!"
Is that over the top?
I want the game up and running by the end of 2015, or the puppy gets it.
Maybe that?
I want the game up and running by the end of 2015, or the puppy gets it.
Maybe that?
Maybe it's time for the direct approach:
"Awright!~Listen up you lot! It only took God seven days to create the world! And ya'll can't complete a game of "Let's Make a Deal" in 900? GET WITH THE PROGRAM! DON'T MAKE ME SEND JOSHEX OVER THERE!"
Is that over the top?
Fixed.Ow. i think that just broke something inside of me.
I want the game up and running by the end of 2015, or the puppy gets it.
Maybe that?
"For every day this isn't up, a random city gets X-Lax dumped in its water supply. Sure, it could be a small town. But it could also be a major city. Think of the backups, Mr. President.. think of the jams.."
But I want it NOWWWWWWW
*pouts* >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( :'( :gonk:
Fixed.
In other news, people in the facebook pages are unhappy there has been no word for a year now and are crying for answers again *sigh*.
Edit: Of course, it has been nearly another year since the announcement of the shutdown, is there any chance for any word that wouldn't break an NDA? People could use some hope for something.
is there any chance for any word that wouldn't break an NDA?No.
No.Fight club... oh wait.
An NDA is an NDA. They can't talk about being in an NDA, they can't talk about not being in an NDA, they can't talk about anything to do with the NDA.
"Work is ongoing" is pretty much all they can say in regards to anything. Please stop asking. The answer doesn't change.
No.
An NDA is an NDA. They can't talk about being in an NDA, they can't talk about not being in an NDA, they can't talk about anything to do with the NDA.
"Work is ongoing" is pretty much all they can say in regards to anything. Please stop asking. The answer doesn't change.
Well what is going to be done about the face book guys then? They are starting to spread rumors that the talks had failed and no one is saying anything.
Well what is going to be done about the face book guys then? They are starting to spread rumors that the talks had failed and no one is saying anything.
Well what is going to be done about the face book guys then? They are starting to spread rumors that the talks had failed and no one is saying anything.What can anyone say to appease the masses?
Probably not, I think most of NC Soft resources is ... working on F2P Guildwars 2 ...
If the talks were to fail it would be a simple thing for them to say - looks like our only hopes are now CoT.
No violation of NDA and we would know.
However Downix and Irish Girl both have been here in the last month saying - work still ongoing slow but sure.
Actually, not really. ArenaNet is now Publisher of that title.
Link to MassivelyOP interview snippet (http://massivelyop.com/2015/09/01/pax-prime-2015-president-mike-obrien-addresses-rumors-about-business-model-and-the-arenanet-base-on-the-moon/?utm_content=bufferaa249&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer) - towards the bottom of the write-up
Isn't AreaNet a sub of NCSoft?
Isn't AreaNet a sub of NCSoft?
Yes, NCSoft does still own ANet, but it appears that ANet is taking everything GW2 related in-house. The only mention of NCSoft in the entire EULA now is in regards to European organization. Otherwise NCSoft doesn't appear anywhere else. Also, the NCSoft logo is nowhere to be found on the GW2 website, the launcher, promotional materials for the upcoming expansion, etc... Further, on the NCSoft site, while there is a link to GW2's website at the bottom of the page, if you use the "Games" dropbox at the top, GW2 is not listed there (only Aion, B&S, L2, and WS).
That weird so is AreaNet is legally "under" NCSoft, but acts like their own company?
That's what it looks like to me. Frankly I was a little surprised when this news hit that it wasn't a bigger story. All I've ever seen on it save some forum posts @ GW2 is that MassivelyOP blurb I linked.
If anything (probably just reading into way too much) this shows NC Soft willing to have some leniency with their IPs if they allow Areanet to have the amount of control I am thinking (and you are suggesting they have) This can be a positive sign in the mind set of NCSoft.
Out of curiosity (I don't follow Guild Wars so I am very ignorant of anything affiliated with that brand) did NCSoft Always started with absolute control of the IP, or was it always in the hands if AreaNet that was a sub of NCSoft and NCSoft for whatever reason just granted AreaNet more autonomy?
ANet was always its own entity, just one that is owned by NCSoft. NCSoft handled Publishing, Customer Support, and Account Management, but this recent turn changed all that and placed it in ANet's hands. As far as I can tell, the only thing NCSoft does now is provide financial backing/support to ANet (and based on the new EULA, some form of legal/corporate structure for the EU region), and collects their cut of the proceeds. Everything else is ANet.
Is it actually any more significant than me starting rumors about City of Heroes negotiations in my office building?
Well what is going to be done about the face book guys then? They are starting to spread rumors that the talks had failed and no one is saying anything.Nothing, because they are dumb?
Well what is going to be done about the face book guys then? They are starting to spread rumors that the talks had failed and no one is saying anything.
Well what is going to be done about the face book guys then? They are starting to spread rumors that the talks had failed and no one is saying anything.
Is this the same group of folks with the leader who threatened to reveal the whole deal and team, backers and all, by Day X if the team didn't come forth and do it?
Clearly, trusting them with pertinent information after that is the *last* thing anyone from the Hail Mary Team would do in a million years. So the fact that they think nothing whatsoever is happening should be seen as a *good* thing. :P
Where these not the same guys (or guy) who saw some demo-recorded video, accused somebody of having a private server, then demanded access?
Where these not the same guys (or guy) who saw some demo-recorded video, accused somebody of having a private server, then demanded access?
the only thing NCSoft does now is provide financial backing/support to ANet (and based on the new EULA, some form of legal/corporate structure for the EU region), and collects their cut of the proceeds. Everything else is ANet.Isn't this what is trying to be done for CoH? It makes me wonder why NCsoft didn't think of doing what they did with ANet with CoH, it would've saved em alot of time, grief and users...
Where these not the same guys (or guy) who saw some demo-recorded video, accused somebody of having a private server, then demanded access? Clearly a mentally-troubled individual is at work there. I am perfectly okay with banning them from the game when it returns.
Anyone have a link to that video? I'm vaguely curious to see what someone thought was evidence of a private server.Who exactly were/are the people who accused somebody of having a private server? doesn't seem like you're talking bout NCsoft, was it just a random group of people who were mad at the possibility of someone having a private server?
Who exactly were/are the people who accused somebody of having a private server? doesn't seem like you're talking bout NCsoft, was it just a random group of people who were mad at the possibility of someone having a private server?
Who exactly were/are the people who accused somebody of having a private server? doesn't seem like you're talking bout NCsoft, was it just a random group of people who were mad at the possibility of someone having a private server?
Why yes. Yes they are. Perhaps one should start a campaign to send them poo by mail? http://poopsenders.com/ (http://poopsenders.com/) That would at least give them something to do with their free tim.
The group (or person?) being discussed runs a facebook page. They have nothing to do with NCSoft or the negotiations.Well, that's good (I think), thanks for clearing that up :)
I've found, sadly, that voice-of-reason replies to these threads get swiftly buried in trollery, like a sandcastle trying to face down an incoming tide. So, I've about given up on even replying in those threads, which seem fueled largely by resentment and negativity.
You can't fix stupid.
Nate and the new Overlords have money and time invested. They also are players like we are that want their home back. I think it will take NCSoft saying go away we don't want to sell - for them to give up.
That has not happened. In fact NCSoft seems to be changing their attitude somewhat and selling some of their games or changing how they are dealt with.
Anyone have a link to that video? I'm vaguely curious to see what someone thought was evidence of a private server.
Couldn't someone have just used a video prior to shutdown and simply claim it to be current? Or would a time-stamp reveal that type of trickery?
Thank you for linking to this. I don't plan on using the service, but I finally found my perfect garage band name. :)
I've found, sadly, that voice-of-reason replies to these threads get swiftly buried in trollery, like a sandcastle trying to face down an incoming tide. So, I've about given up on even replying in those threads, which seem fueled largely by resentment and negativity.
I was just thinking Nate and the Overlords would be a good garage band name as well.
You can't fix stupid.
Nate and the new Overlords have money and time invested. They also are players like we are that want their home back. I think it will take NCSoft saying go away we don't want to sell - for them to give up.
That has not happened. In fact NCSoft seems to be changing their attitude somewhat and selling some of their games or changing how they are dealt with.
It's Schrodinger's Cat.
The box is closed. Until the box is open, there is no way to tell if the cat is still alive or dead. As long as the box remains closed you are free to imagine the live kitty all you like.
No bad = good!But... But... It's great for a snack and it fits on your back!
In other words: It's better than bad, it's GOOD!
Oh, great. Now I have the stupid "Log" theme song from Ren & Stimpy running through my brain.
...it could just as easily be extrapolation from them listening to a hive of bees droning in their heads...
It's Schrodinger's Cat.
The box is closed. Until the box is open, there is no way to tell if the cat is still alive or dead. As long as the box remains closed you are free to imagine the live kitty all you like.
It doesn't matter if it's alive or dead - if you open the box you're going to have a stinky mess to clean up.Irish_Girl has already started the Preemptive kitty cleaning though. So, it's good. Maybe. Possibly.
It's Schrodinger's Cat.
The box is closed. Until the box is open, there is no way to tell if the cat is still alive or dead. As long as the box remains closed you are free to imagine the live kitty all you like.
Wrong game. :) Listening to bees, that's THE SECRET WORLD. :)That as well. Those Templars and Illuminati will regret choosing the wrong path. :-X
Currently no news is both no news and slightly good news. No news means negotiations to buy the IP continue even if they haven't been concluded. At least according to all publicly available information. There are a few who claim to know otherwise, but since they refuse to say where their information comes from it could just as easily be extrapolation from them listening to a hive of bees droning in their heads and divining meaning from it. (It's still better than pigeon entrails in their heads. Well, for them.)
There's really only 3 people here that anyone should listen to for news on the deal. Nate, Myself, and Ironwolf. Anything anyone else says is conjecture at best, misinformation at worst.
No, the deal isn't dead. No, NCSoft hasn't asked for some ridiculous Olympian amount of cash. (As nate said: "Doable") Yes, things are going slower than people would necessarily like.
and I hate to say it, most of the 'experience' that some of you guys have doesn't necessarily translate to this kind of deal.
As for NCSoft 'stringing us along'. It's entirely possible, but I don't believe it to be likely. It costs time and money for every minute they're dealing with Nate, or sending someone to find out exactly what they do/don't have from Paragon. A lot more resources than just saying "no" and hanging up a phone.
There's really only 3 people here that anyone should listen to for news on the deal. Nate, Myself, and Ironwolf. Anything anyone else says is conjecture at best, misinformation at worst.
No, the deal isn't dead. No, NCSoft hasn't asked for some ridiculous Olympian amount of cash. (As nate said: "Doable") Yes, things are going slower than people would necessarily like.
and I hate to say it, most of the 'experience' that some of you guys have doesn't necessarily translate to this kind of deal.
As for NCSoft 'stringing us along'. It's entirely possible, but I don't believe it to be likely. It costs time and money for every minute they're dealing with Nate, or sending someone to find out exactly what they do/don't have from Paragon. A lot more resources than just saying "no" and hanging up a phone.
. . . <Snip!> and then their cousin bursts in and starts pouring gasoline all over their living room furniture while we're talking about the car.
and then their cousin bursts in and starts pouring gasoline all over their living room furniture while we're talking about the car.
Then I correct myself, 2 people. In some weird instance where we both have broken hands...then I'd have TonyV pass along information.This is why I believe this deal will be successful :). While I would love to play now, I can wait I have a few mmos that I have a few things left to do. Such as in the Secret World I have the last two missions for the tower and from what I have read issue 13 will be for pvp so I am in no rush. I also play STO and restarted playing Tera, so I have more than enough to keep me busy for a long time. :)
I'm pretty sure the majority of the footwork for NCSoft on the deal is that sort of non-priority work. People spending a quarter the time as they do on their other responsibilities, since it isn't a large priority.
At some point, someone hit it on the head. Everything else aside... you can buy a car in a few hours because the dealership REALLY wants to sell you that car. Their entire existence is ALL about selling you that car.
NCSoft on the other hand has no pressing need to sell us the car. It's an older model, not quite a 'classic', maybe something that was a hand-me-down from their uncle. We've got to convince them to part with it, despite not really having a need to. They're not quite really...sentimental about the car, especially since the brake pedal likes to stick. While they may not LOVE the car however, they have spent a lot of time and money on it...and really want to make sure that if they do sell it, it's to someone who's not going to get drunk and crash it.
and then their cousin bursts in and starts pouring gasoline all over their living room furniture while we're talking about the car.
...and then their cousin bursts in and starts pouring gasoline all over their living room furniture while we're talking about the car.
and then their cousin bursts in and starts pouring gasoline all over their living room furniture while we're talking about the car.Thanks for the quasi-official update on how things are going (basically just confirming that things are pretty much as expected, but it's still good to have it verified), and for making me laugh.
Removed a bunch of posts stemming from obvious flamebait.
i sincerely hope for the sake of everyone on here who has been strung along these 2 years that this actually happens. but i feel like the forward momentum we had going for a while is all but gone, and that people are losing interest. city of titans feels like little more than a memory right now too, all they do is post lore
If you're mad, go be mad at the Facebook guy
i sincerely hope for the sake of everyone on here who has been strung along these 2 years that this actually happens. but i feel like the forward momentum we had going for a while is all but gone, and that people are losing interest. city of titans feels like little more than a memory right now too, all they do is post lore
Live your life, keep your head up and one day this will all be a bad memory.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=cdn2.business2community.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FFacebook-fuckup1-300x300.jpg)
Is it bad I want to both report and like this?
So.... you want to report that you like this?In that case i'd say mission accomplished. All without cosplaying as a pilot on an aircraft carrier.
Removed a bunch of posts stemming from obvious flamebait.
Did I miss something?
Did I miss something?'
Did I miss something?Nothing of note. Poorly written simplistic trolling that was pretty typical of a certain recurring troll that reappears every so often before being banned again.
'
you missed the victoria's secret models marching in support of COH...and a 420 piece marching band, all playing kazoos...too bad, they were great
I dunno i think the voovoozela brigade was better and when the Blue Angels did that flyby with the thunder birds and Voltron while Batman and captain America brake danced ?
Did this happen on Mulberry Street?
Did I miss something?
You gained more by missing than viewing
I protest, I wasted a perfectly good Obi Wan Kenobi meme on those posts.
You need to call someone wretched to set up the meme properly.
Allow me to preemptively stress that calling a hive wretched does not necessarily imply that its inhabitants are wretched.It has come to be considered an implication that the hive is full of scum and villainy, however.
Nothing of note. Poorly written simplistic trolling that was pretty typical of a certain recurring troll that reappears every so often before being banned again.
What was quite interesting is that the account had been registered for over a year before rising.Interesting. As far as i can recall their post count was so low that i pretty much assumed it was a new account, but i didn't investigate it at all. i read the first few posts they made in this thread, sighed at how derivative and uninspired they were and stopped paying attention.
I checked before things apparently got really bad.
Interesting. As far as i can recall their post count was so low that i pretty much assumed it was a new account, but i didn't investigate it at all.
You can't just pop in one day and troll. The council of trolls requires one year bridge occupancy.
What happens if you troll the council of trolls?
It's like dividing by zero, or crossing proton streams.
It's like dividing by zero, or crossing proton streams.
But...crossing the streams is bad. :)
Is all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light bad?
What happens if you troll the council of trolls?
Did I miss something, who killed the unicorns ?
Troll = unicorns, but not anymore.
I wonder if pancake still means pancake.
you arent waffling on us now are you? that would be a crepey thing to do.Now I'm in the mood for some French Toast... :(
Troll = unicorns, but not anymore.(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=36.media.tumblr.com%2F8793964a2acfce6a05a69bcc596933ac%2Ftumblr_nonsw1ISmk1r3abdgo1_1280.jpg)
I wonder if pancake still means pancake.
It had to be done.
They had rabies. And were behind on the alimony.
Most folks don't realize that unicorns are carnivorous, crappy spouses AND irresponsible parents. Rabies is a frequent condition as they often nibble on dead things they may not have hunted themselves. Their favorite meal is elf.
isnt everybodies favorite meal elf?Not everybody, i tend to leave it on the shelf.
Not everybody, i tend to leave it on the shelf.
Did I miss something, who killed the unicorns ?
It was Voldemort! Well, actually it was Professor Quirrell, who had Voldemort's withered remains merged with the back of his head, but I digress....
It was Elmer Fudd..duck season and wabbit season was over
BTW: it was over a year ago that the mask came off.
And Tony Stark has yet to update us about the status of our beloved game.
That National Diary Association thingy stinks.
BTW: It was over a year ago that the Facebook Blabbermouth leaked TFHM information to the great surprise and consternation of both the team and NCSoft.
And The Facebook Blabbermouth has yet to apologize for the perpetual angst on these forums that he has unleashed ever since about the status of our beloved game.
Leaking unauthorized information stinks.
:)
Why does everyone keep complaining about lack of news like TFHM is dangling candy in front of a baby then yanking it away? No one should know anything. This deal may never happen. Thank a couple of those in the know, who just couldn't keep their mouths shut a year ago, for all this added stress we've had ever since. Even the death threats and "I'll come to your house" threats that happened in PMs never would have happened if everybody who knew something would have just kept their mouths shut instead.
But, without that announcement a year ago, I would have given up and taken off long ago. And, I bet there's a few others on here just like that. I'm only here now waiting on news, and for the return.
I'm about to give up anyway. This is ridiculous.
But, without that announcement a year ago, I would have given up and taken off long ago. And, I bet there's a few others on here just like that. I'm only here now waiting on news, and for the return.
I'm about to give up anyway. This is ridiculous.
But, without that announcement a year ago, I would have given up and taken off long ago. And, I bet there's a few others on here just like that. I'm only here now waiting on news, and for the return.Yeah, I am sorry but this is very ridiculous now. Especially if NCsoft was worried about nexon. Raising their stock price should help them. Also, Nexon doesn't have controlling interest. There should be NO reason said NCsoft employee should be scared by doing something when the person he fears has NO operational control rights. I don't believe post el facto firing could be legal in Korea.
I'm about to give up anyway. This is ridiculous.
. . .<Snip!> beat up bad guys and save citizens so they can make sarcastic comments about my costume.
If you want news, look what I learned from the guide on my dvr today -I would like to make an observation.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=cdn.meme.am%2Finstances2%2F500x%2F2252352.jpg)
But, without that announcement a year ago, I would have given up and taken off long ago. And, I bet there's a few others on here just like that. I'm only here now waiting on news, and for the return.I am here because of this announcement, I was full of hate of what was done to City of. I spent the money on City of. but I spent it on an inferior game. And to that I will not leave or give up on this or any know attempts. I want to be able to go home. City of. was the game I went back when I was bored with another game. But since our home closed STO has become my temp. home when I get bored.
I'm about to give up anyway. This is ridiculous.
I hope this helps for those who are in doubt.I like the reason. :) People just need to relax and save that energy for when the game comes back. :)
I have spoken in the past to some of those folks who want to make this deal and they are complete fans of the game the same as we are.
In fact they are such fans of the game that when they thought it was gone - they got some friends together pooled their money and started a studio to make a game as close to CoH as they could.
When they thought they could possibly buy the IP for CoH - they were as giddy as a school girl at her first prom. When they thought the deal was killed by being forced to open up to what was happening they were in complete panic - thinking the game was gone forever.
If you think sitting on the outside getting no news is hard - try working on their side where you want it at least as much as we do - but must work at NCSoft's speed. I have nothing but respect for them for making this effort and I know they will do everything possible to make it happen. NCSoft has not said - No. So far everything is yes, just at their speed.
I hope this helps for those who are in doubt.I really do appreciate the effort, don't get me wrong. I absolutely do not think it is our side that is the issue. The things that get me is what I said in my previous post. At this point I really don't think they are in good faith, never were. It couldn't hurt ANYONE at the company. Nexon doesn't have that kind of say yet. It could only help NCsoft if they made some revenue.
I have spoken in the past to some of those folks who want to make this deal and they are complete fans of the game the same as we are.
In fact they are such fans of the game that when they thought it was gone - they got some friends together pooled their money and started a studio to make a game as close to CoH as they could.
When they thought they could possibly buy the IP for CoH - they were as giddy as a school girl at her first prom. When they thought the deal was killed by being forced to open up to what was happening they were in complete panic - thinking the game was gone forever.
If you think sitting on the outside getting no news is hard - try working on their side where you want it at least as much as we do - but must work at NCSoft's speed. I have nothing but respect for them for making this effort and I know they will do everything possible to make it happen. NCSoft has not said - No. So far everything is yes, just at their speed.
Yeah, I am sorry but this is very ridiculous now. Especially if NCsoft was worried about nexon. Raising their stock price should help them. Also, Nexon doesn't have controlling interest. There should be NO reason said NCsoft employee should be scared by doing something when the person he fears has NO operational control rights. I don't believe post el facto firing could be legal in Korea.
I'm about to give up anyway. This is ridiculous.
Yes, I agree with you completely. This is totally ridiculous and apparently it always was. Clearly the team that is pretending to conduct negotiations is actually just trolling us and has been all along.
I think that the only way to win this game with them is not to play. Not to visit this forum anymore, not to post here anymore. I suggest this winning strategy to you, and I hope you take me most seriously.
Yes, I agree with you completely. This is totally ridiculous and apparently it always was. Clearly the team that is pretending to conduct negotiations is actually just trolling us and has been all along.I said the team was serious but ncsoft wasn't?
I think that the only way to win this game with them is not to play. Not to visit this forum anymore, not to post here anymore. I suggest this winning strategy to you, and I hope you take me most seriously.
From my personal perspective, Paragon Chat gives me 65% of what I valued in the game. I can create characters and bios, share them with other people in a common environment and tour the world of Paragon City. It makes it a lot easier for me to be patient on everything else.
Raising their stock price should help them.
But, without that announcement a year ago, I would have given up and taken off long ago. And, I bet there's a few others on here just like that. I'm only here now waiting on news, and for the return.
I'm about to give up anyway. This is ridiculous.
Yeah, I am sorry but this is very ridiculous now. Especially if NCsoft was worried about nexon. Raising their stock price should help them. Also, Nexon doesn't have controlling interest. There should be NO reason said NCsoft employee should be scared by doing something when the person he fears has NO operational control rights. I don't believe post el facto firing could be legal in Korea.
I think there was an email signup for updates
From my personal perspective, Paragon Chat gives me 65% of what I valued in the game. I can create characters and bios, share them with other people in a common environment and tour the world of Paragon City. It makes it a lot easier for me to be patient on everything else.
Though I'd REALLY like to play through those builds, beat up bad guys and save citizens so they can make sarcastic comments about my costume.
From my personal perspective, Paragon Chat gives me 65% of what I valued in the game. I can create characters and bios, share them with other people in a common environment and tour the world of Paragon City. It makes it a lot easier for me to be patient on everything else.
Though I'd REALLY like to play through those builds, beat up bad guys and save citizens so they can make sarcastic comments about my costume.
For me it's more like 20%. I did (and do) enjoy and appreciate the community, but I mostly want to be able to play the game.
If you want, post your costume and I'll make sarcastic comments about it; I can probably get you up to at least 76%.
The silence has become deafening!
silent but deadly ;)Apperently Nate is a fart.
Apperently Nate is a fart.
Let's hope he's "silent but successful". We can name a new kind of fart after him. What an honor. I think.
Under what set of circumstances would you ever use that nomenclature?Maybe upon a successful use of Chocking Cloud?
A: Man, I hate it when everyone piles into the elevator and pushes all the buttons and we have to stop on every single floor.
B: Let me try something...
A: Wow, that was silent but successful. Now we have the elevator all to ourselves.
Maybe upon a successful use of Chocking Cloud?
This is what the conversation has sunk to? Man, there better be some news soon, or who knows where this thread could dive! :o ;) ???I mean weve done good for being 2 years in. Just now we are starting to sound like inbred and hysterical hill billys.
I mean weve done good for being 2 years in. Just now we are starting to sound like inbred and hysterical hill billys.As someone who grew up in Arkansas and has family throughout Kentucky and West Virginia, and who teaches psychology, I would respectfully submit that the level of dialogue I've observed in this thread is not at all typical of either inbreeding or hysteria.
As someone who grew up in Arkansas and has family throughout Kentucky and West Virginia, and who teaches psychology, I would respectfully submit that the level of dialogue I've observed in this thread is not at all typical of either inbreeding or hysteria.;) we just hide it real good.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a sistercousinwife to scold for something or other.
;) we just hide it real good.
*Does something stupid involving beer and propane.*
As someone who grew up in Arkansas and has family throughout Kentucky and West Virginia, and who teaches psychology, I would respectfully submit that the level of dialogue I've observed in this thread is not at all typical of either inbreeding or hysteria.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a sistercousinwife to scold for something or other.
I mean weve done good for being 2 years in. Just now we are starting to sound like inbred and hysterical hill billys.
Lol so true...
could be worse... this could be the facebook group....
Lol so true...
*Does something stupid involving beer and propane.*
Are there any smart things you can do with beer and propane?
Backyard barbeque on a gas grill. 8)
That reminds me of the time I lit a bottle rocket off in my bedroom...
The real dumdums light the firework mortar off their a$$. We have darwin award candidates.But did they die?
You grew up in Arkansas? Moi aussi! COUSIN!!! What part did you grow up in? What's your home town? Where are you now?Grew up in North Little Rock, went to UCA for undergrad, now teach in Ohio. :)
Darwin Award recipients need not die to receive the award. Removing their own ability to procreate through action or inaction when they ought to really know better is enough.Good point...
Darwin Award recipients need not die to receive the award. Removing their own ability to procreate through action or inaction when they ought to really know better is enough.
Like this guy--A valiant attempt, but he didn't quite achieve sterilization. Full marks for effort, but he needs another go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdxyRv8IN88 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdxyRv8IN88)
But did they die?
Under what set of circumstances would you ever use that nomenclature?
A: Man, I hate it when everyone piles into the elevator and pushes all the buttons and we have to stop on every single floor.
B: Let me try something...
A: Wow, that was silent but successful. Now we have the elevator all to ourselves.
A valiant attempt, but he didn't quite achieve sterilization. Full marks for effort, but he needs another go.That is disappointing, he can pass along his genes :(
Backyard barbeque on a gas grill. 8)
Darwin Award recipients need not die to receive the award. Removing their own ability to procreate through action or inaction when they ought to really know better is enough.
Depending on the ratio of beer to propane, not all of those end up being intelligent activities.
"Here, hold my beer, watch this!"
Sorry, Arcana... I had to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-hUV9yhqgY
Some great ideas come from really, really crass places. May this inspire the game's return... or laughter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-hUV9yhqgY
Some great ideas come from really, really crass places.
If you haven't had at least one brainstorming session that looked like this, you're not a real engineer. Technically speaking that's algorithm brainstorming not engineering, but they are extremely close cousins. Although I suppose there's some engineering involved in determining the penis alignment limiting values for optimal jerkage.
All the best Pinnacle stories start with:Quote from: Potential TF Winner"Here, hold my beer, watch this!"
Word is they had a Stanford professor work out the process. For a dick joke. How can you not like that show?
Oy! The game had better come back soon! There is no telling how much more degeneration of subject matter can occur before then, but so far there is no end in sight! ;)i'm actually torn about this. On the one hand i would really like to play the game again, but on the other hand...
i'm actually torn about this. On the one hand i would really like to play the game again, but on the other hand...
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3866/14578734044_e94b4e6183_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/odgPHw)
"On the next episode of Gandalf: Hall Monitor..."
And here I thought he was commenting about the KC Chiefs.
That's great, but who are the Chefs?
(https://i.imgur.com/NUIbrHn.jpgp)
One of the best commercials I've seen
Still the greatest one and some how got passed the FCC was this A&W Root beer CommercialThis commercial was the reason that I called one of my cats "Mr. Dumass".
(https://evilsquirrelsnest.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/dumass.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMe3WDmxBEI
This commercial was the reason that I called one of my cats "Mr. Dumass".i sometimes refer to some people as a "French writer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_Dumas)" sometimes for similar reasons.
Still the greatest one and some how got passed the FCC was this A&W Root beer Commercial
(https://evilsquirrelsnest.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/dumass.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMe3WDmxBEI
If CoX comes back, my first toon will be a Mastermind who was imprisoned at Nexon, planned his revenge, broke out and got the game back with all the ill-gotten stock cash loot in tow! <Snip!> . . .
i sometimes refer to some people as a "French writer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_Dumas)" sometimes for similar reasons.
when I was a kid my best friend kept getting scolded for calling his little brother a dum a$$, so then we just turned it from D.A. into District Attorney, and shortened it all to just "district". So my friend would look at his brother, shake his head and say "district...." I would get the message, he would not get scolded, and his little brother would be confused (as usual).
Games with defunct online servers. . . .CoH however was only OWNED overseas, it was developed in the USA and mostly functioned in the USA. IT operated primarily in united states jurisdiction.
This feels MORE like, say, the Resident Evil Outbreak games than closed MMOs, especially closed MMOs based in other countries.
I've seen stuff like this already raised on here, but I can't recall what people have been saying about it thus far.
I cannot see how CoX is an abandoned property when it is in closed negotiation for transfer of ownership
Games with defunct online servers. . . .
This feels MORE like, say, the Resident Evil Outbreak games than closed MMOs, especially closed MMOs based in other countries.
I've seen stuff like this already raised on here, but I can't recall what people have been saying about it thus far.
I cannot see how CoX is an abandoned property when it is in closed negotiation for transfer of ownership
I cannot see that argument as having much sway in a court. If it weren't for the MMORPG exemption, it certainly would fall under the court's decision of being abandoned. Otherwise a company could just start closed negotiations to sell a product upon closing it, and never complete negotiations for any period of time, in order to maintain that any game is "not abandoned".
HEY! Mr. Downes!
How about an update? It's been 14 months since your mask came off - how about some hard information? People are dying over here!
I don't think he's got much to do with it anymore. As far as I know he is still developing City of Titans, and I would suspect that he doesn't have the time to try and juggle both projects. Not to mention, CoX coming back would likely have somewhat of an adverse effect on the excitement we all have for his new game.
HEY! Mr. Downes!
How about an update? It's been 14 months since your mask came off - how about some hard information? People are dying over here!
HEY! Mr. Downes!
How about an update? It's been 14 months since your mask came off - how about some hard information? People are dying over here!
Not really. The main reason to get IP I suspect is to use the material of the IP for all spiritual success games. This includes CoT, Valiance, etc. Having CoX to play is just a nice extra side dish, but in a general business sense and to make a true successor (not just in spirit) they want to incorporate all the characters/factions/etc in the future games.
Not really. The main reason to get IP I suspect is to use the material of the IP for all spiritual success games. This includes CoT, Valiance, etc. Having CoX to play is just a nice extra side dish, but in a general business sense and to make a true successor (not just in spirit) they want to incorporate all the characters/factions/etc in the future games.
That says to me that APR will get a way to make an actual playable game out of the visual assets that they are creating, and that game will be CoH 1.5. It does not say that CoT is actually going to put Statesman et al. in their lore, or do anything other than drop "spiritual" from their epithet.
I cannot see how CoX is an abandoned property when it is in closed negotiation for transfer of ownership
Paragon Chat, however, would not be covered by the exemption and would technically still be in violation of the DMCA (in the US) because it enabled online play (of sorts).
It's true that the new exemption doesn't help Paragon Chat. However, it's merely an exemption to the law itself -- it remains to be seen if PC actually violates the DMCA, since the piece being distributed doesn't contain any copyrighted material. The part that could possibly be invoked is claiming that it's a tool that is prohibited by the anti-circumvention provisions. That depends on successfully arguing that the network protocol is a TPM (Technical Protection Measure), which is tenuous at best, especially if expert witnesses were to testify that the protocol is difficult to implement simply due to obscurity, not a competent attempt to control access.
I believe the problem isn't the network protocol itself, but the fact that PC eliminates the need to log into an authentication server. Reverse engineering an auth server would be a DMCA violation, but developing technology that bypasses the need to log into one is also a DMCA violation if I understand the DMCA correctly. Although we know that City of Heroes (the client) didn't strictly speaking need to log into an auth server so you could argue that isn't a true auth server bypass, I don't think that argument is solid in the face of prior DMCA litigation.
in other words "when you're looking through legal technicalities in rather unclear legal grounds where there is extensive corporate interest; if you have to wonder whether or not it's legal to do what you are proposing, then it's not."
No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.
Although we know that City of Heroes (the client) didn't strictly speaking need to log into an auth server so you could argue that isn't a true auth server bypass, I don't think that argument is solid in the face of prior DMCA litigation.
The grey area isn't a legal technicality, its the question of whether the ability to run the game client in debug mode without auth servers "means" that the auth servers "effectively" control access. I believe the average judge would frown on attempting to leverage those words to imply that any game that has a developer back door gives all consumers license to exploit that back door to dodge DMCA provisions.
I think a pretty solid argument could be made that it's not just a dodge. I'm not talking about an obscure developer backdoor. It's the default mode of operation for the client. Logging in using the authentication server is optional.
I'm serious, try running Paragon Chat in -localhost mode. Do not log in to XMPP. In another window, run this command:
cityofheroes.exe -project coh
(you can use "-project asdf" you want, it just selects which registry key to load the graphics settings from. "coh" will load the ones you have already set)
It will ask for username and password -- the latter of which is ignored -- and then give you a server list with UNNAMED. Choosing UNNAMED will try to connect to the IP address of your own computer, whichever network card it finds first. If Paragon Chat is running in -localhost mode and windows firewall isn't blocking it, it will succeed.
The only reason PC doesn't use this method by default is that it's not quite as user-friendly, and the firewall can sometimes interfere.
The only way to make the client connect to an authentication server and actually validate the password is specifically ask it to by using the -auth option.
The only possible case to make is that the launcher always stuck -auth in there, but lots of players had been bypassing the launcher for years. I'd wager we could even find documented cases of support advising players to run the game directly with -project coh if the launcher was experiencing issues on their PC.
Obviously you'd want to explain this to a judge in easy to understand non-technical terms to avoid being painted as trying to find a loophole. It's not a play on 'effective' (the legal meaning of which is often misunderstood by people looking for loopholes), it's the fact that the game is very clearly designed for it.
We'd still not be home free, because NCSoft still owns the copyright to the game client and technically speaking its still illegal to distribute it. NCSoft could step past the DMCA and argue that Paragon Chat is a tool that contributes to copyright infringement. But that's a separate can of worms, with completely different legal rules.
But IMO by far the best approach is to simply be as non-threatening as possible, by making it clear what the intentions and limitations of the project are and what steps are being taken to avoid infringing. In short, to be "not worth the trouble".
Single-player mode would be a clear DMCA violation. Not even DMCA, just copyright law in general. It would require duplicating and distributing content that the players never had locally -- mission scripts, any number of serverside xp or reward tables, NPC dialog, and so forth.
There is no nice way to say this. But no, be patient. You are in no position to demand anything.
I think a pretty solid argument could be made that it's not just a dodge. I'm not talking about an obscure developer backdoor. It's the default mode of operation for the client. Logging in using the authentication server is optional.
I'm serious, try running Paragon Chat in -localhost mode. Do not log in to XMPP. In another window, run this command:
cityofheroes.exe -project coh
(you can use "-project asdf" you want, it just selects which registry key to load the graphics settings from. "coh" will load the ones you have already set)
It will ask for username and password -- the latter of which is ignored -- and then give you a server list with UNNAMED. Choosing UNNAMED will try to connect to the IP address of your own computer, whichever network card it finds first. If Paragon Chat is running in -localhost mode and windows firewall isn't blocking it, it will succeed.
The only reason PC doesn't use this method by default is that it's not quite as user-friendly, and the firewall can sometimes interfere.
The only way to make the client connect to an authentication server and actually validate the password is specifically ask it to by using the -auth option.
The only possible case to make is that the launcher always stuck -auth in there, but lots of players had been bypassing the launcher for years. I'd wager we could even find documented cases of support advising players to run the game directly with -project coh if the launcher was experiencing issues on their PC.
Obviously you'd want to explain this to a judge in easy to understand non-technical terms to avoid being painted as trying to find a loophole. It's not a play on 'effective' (the legal meaning of which is often misunderstood by people looking for loopholes), it's the fact that the game is very clearly designed for it.
I know it's off topic, but might you tell me how I can uncover what '-' commands can be used for another program? in specific I'm hoping I can use it to specify a location instead of the CD drive. kinda like -auth for online stuff, but this game is looking for a CD (virtual CD drives wont work, tried) so what steps are usually taken to find the dash commands?
I know it's off topic, but might you tell me how I can uncover what '-' commands can be used for another program? in specific I'm hoping I can use it to specify a location instead of the CD drive. kinda like -auth for online stuff, but this game is looking for a CD (virtual CD drives wont work, tried) so what steps are usually taken to find the dash commands?
vo is becoming the same thing. they tooted the hype horn way too soon and then no communication for weeks or months. soon(tm) was funny the first 50 or so times it was trotted out.
Wow! Nothing for almost a year here.... am I missing a more pertinent thread, maybe? :)Depends on what you mean by 'more pertinent', but new efforts is the active general chat one now.
Not to mention the new efforts thread gets a lot of activity. Know, we'll have to make sure to tell MWM and the valiance online teams to include a badge for the new efforts thread :).that would be awesome :D
Wow! Nothing for almost a year here.... am I missing a more pertinent thread, maybe? :)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fwreckitralph%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fdc%2FRalph.png)
Nothing new at all has happened on the "CoH Rez" front, no.
You'd be best off signing up for the "Wake me when there's news" thread that is pinned to the top of this sub-forum. The last post in it is over a year old, but if anything ever does happen with rezzing CoH, you'll get an email about it.
(Mostly CoH's anniversary/Loregasm and NCSoft's Shutdown anniversary. Biannually the latter happens, nothing in years for the former.)The shutdown anniversary happens twice a year? ???
The shutdown anniversary happens twice a year? ???
The loregasm has happened every year since 2012. http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA Though I have a feeling it won't be happening this year unless it gets started soon.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7428/27521908076_21540ebe43_o.png)
Switch, apparently they ARE thinking about it - oddly enough, Statesman just showed up in another NCSOFT game 'Master X Master'. No, I don't get it either.
I checked the date - it's not April 1st:
http://massivelyop.com/2017/03/21/master-x-master-announces-a-closed-beta-date-and-adds-city-of-heroes-statesman-to-its-roster/
Err, NCSoft is clearly not thinking about rezzing CoH whatsoever, not that they ever seriously considered it anyway. However, they're stupid to think they're going to draw CoH players into this thing by sticking a Statesman puppet into it, like that would ever be a viable substitute. Good grief.
I don't believe there is any thought to CoH players whatsoever -- they just had a somewhat widely-known Super-Hero character that they owned in-house and found a use for the IP.
From Nate Downs FB thread on this:
... Yep, which dispels rumors of a CoH buy out by anyone else.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nathaniel Downes: it was always a remote chance anyways
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=orig00.deviantart.net%2F003e%2Ff%2F2012%2F322%2Fc%2Fc%2F_savecoh__black_widow_and_loki_discuss_by_todogut-d5lg6wy.jpg)
Doesn't Mewling Quim basically translate to "Whiney C word"
Loki has got a potty mouth on him
Doesn't Mewling Quim basically translate to "Whiney C word"
Loki has got a potty mouth on him
Doesn't Mewling Quim basically translate to "Whiney C word"Yes, it was quite something to hear in the theater. OTOH, it made it into the movie because it was esoteric and archaic enough that the vast majority of people, especially Hollywood execs, had never heard the word before, so most people in the theater had no idea why it was such a funny line to some of us.
Loki has got a potty mouth on him
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/65390122.jpg)
One thread to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them...
Is it safe to say that this isn't happening?
I think our hopes now lie with SEGS
They have a partially functional issue 1 compatible emulator and the team are active on GitHub again.
I have a strong feeling there's more folks learning of this on the Homecoming forums than anyone reading Titan Network at all at the moment. But in any case, stay tuned. :)
(From the other site:)
To be clear, Homecoming will remain completely free to play.
...
-- Tony is the head of The Titan Network. The Titan network has nothing to do with City of Titans (aka The Phoenix Project), that's being developed by Missing Worlds Media.
-- Leandro is not the owner of Homecoming.
-- Homecoming doesn't have a leader, it is a collective (although technically Cipher owns the LLC on paper right now).
-- Homecoming is in the process of becoming a non-profit, although doing this correctly is not a simple or quick process.
-- The non-profit will have multiple board members, ensuring the project is not reliant on or controlled by a single individual.
-- We will always listen to the community - long term we hope to be as transparent as we possibly can be, but obviously current circumstances require a certain level of secrecy.
Details will come when we have more to share. I know telling people to 'hold on' is a lot to ask from a group of people who have been holding on for seven years (believe me, I'm one of them, too), but that's all the official word there is at the moment.
Only thing I can offer: GM Jimmy did state Homecoming shall remain free to play.
Hope that answers a bit.